swinger 3-way SPV - no damping after oil change- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    53

    swinger 3-way SPV - no damping after oil change

    I finally serviced the shock (2005 model) and changed the oil - many, many miles too late. It had no leaks and was working OK before but getting rough, so Iextended some TLC. However, all is not well.......

    I've re-assembled it 3 times now, very carefully bleeding and setting the volumes. All appears good - SPV valve is moving as far as I can tell, and no gurgling or hissing sounds as I cycle the shock so no air in the damper I think. However, I have absolutely no damping. Definitely no rebound on any setting and I don't think there is any compression either. I've tried the SPV from 50-150 psi and it makes no difference.

    Anyone have any ideas as to what might have gone wrong? All I can think is the piston being fully open somehow, maybe a bent shim or stuck rebound valve - but I cannot see anything obvious.

    Any good diagnostic test suggestions?

    All help much appreciated

  2. #2
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    34,136
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffpw View Post
    I finally serviced the shock (2005 model) and changed the oil - many, many miles too late. It had no leaks and was working OK before but getting rough, so Iextended some TLC. However, all is not well.......

    I've re-assembled it 3 times now, very carefully bleeding and setting the volumes. All appears good - SPV valve is moving as far as I can tell, and no gurgling or hissing sounds as I cycle the shock so no air in the damper I think. However, I have absolutely no damping. Definitely no rebound on any setting and I don't think there is any compression either. I've tried the SPV from 50-150 psi and it makes no difference.

    Anyone have any ideas as to what might have gone wrong? All I can think is the piston being fully open somehow, maybe a bent shim or stuck rebound valve - but I cannot see anything obvious.

    Any good diagnostic test suggestions?

    All help much appreciated
    No, but one option is to send it to Avalanche and have it converted to SSV instead of SPV, lots of happy people after this mod, and it would "rebuild" your shock:

    5th Element / Swinger Speed Sensitive Conversion
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,671
    Did you put the SPV valve in upside down?

    It's an easy thing to do and results in no damping at any pressure.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Did you put the SPV valve in upside down?

    It's an easy thing to do and results in no damping at any pressure.
    +1 this is the most likely, and an extremely easy mistake to make if not paying close attention.

  5. #5
    fuggansonofahowa
    Reputation: Hawseman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,065
    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    +1 this is the most likely, and an extremely easy mistake to make if not paying close attention.
    +2

    been there.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    53
    I wondered about that, so i double checked. However, ambiguity rules supreme. So: flat side facing away from the piston , right?

    [edit]- I just realized you guys are talking about the pneumatic spring SPV valve in the stack, right? I was referring to the floating piston with my question. Still would like to validate which way up the floating piston goes: flat side towards the eyelet?

    Back to the actual SPV valve: Is it common for the SPV valve to lose it's air? Would that create the same symptom of no damping at all

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by geoffpw; 09-12-2016 at 05:40 AM.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    53
    bumpty bump - can any of you fine Manitou experts out there answer these questions, please? Cheers, G

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    391
    https://www.manitoumtb.com/assets/Se...e%20Manual.pdf
    Page 11, section 6.
    Shows the SPV valve the right way round.

    Yes, the same symptom would also show as no damping if you had sticky seals on the SPV valve jamming its movement.
    As the manual says make sure its greased and returns on its own smoothly before fitting.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,671
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffpw View Post
    [edit]- I just realized you guys are talking about the pneumatic spring SPV valve in the stack, right? I was referring to the floating piston with my question. Still would like to validate which way up the floating piston goes: flat side towards the eyelet?

    Back to the actual SPV valve: Is it common for the SPV valve to lose it's air? Would that create the same symptom of no damping at all

    Thanks in advance
    Sounds like you've got it now about the SPV. When the SPV valve loses it's air it tends to stay closed and moves with a knock instead of smoothly.
    They do lose air over time, just like the Fox boost valve (which is the same thing), the cure is to pop them apart, clean and regrease. This gives you another few years.

    Floating piston has the recess towards the oil.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    53
    Awesome! Thanks, Dougal

  11. #11
    Just a flesh wound
    Reputation: Prophet Julio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,364
    I have a couple of 3way Air SPV's lurking in my parts bin. It was a brilliant solution to pedal bob but now it is primitive technology compared to the new..stuff.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Ripmo now.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,010
    It's been a while since I messed with spv but I am thinking your spv piston seal is not holding. The lack of rebound is usually a 100% sign that it is not holding and allowing oil under pressure to seep into the air gap not allowing the valve to shut and close off the compression ports.

    I would second the other poster and take this opportunity to send it to Avalanche and get a more reliable and better functioning true piston and stack setup.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,671
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    I would second the other poster and take this opportunity to send it to Avalanche and get a more reliable and better functioning true piston and stack setup.
    Honestly, for a 3way it's not worth it as they can quickly and easily fit a more modern shock like the McLeod for a good price.

    If you had a 6way swinger on a period frame it would be worth it. I've done that conversion myself with great results.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,010
    But wouldn't a custom tuned Avalanche function better than a base tuned mcloed? Once Avalanche changes it then it's an entirely different shock.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    53
    All good suggestions.

    I was tempted with avalanche for my main/race bike, but went for a mcleod instead (thanks to Dougal's suggestion on another thread for kicking that off). This swinger is on my spare bike - a 18 year old single pivot K2 4000 (so benefits from the platform). It's still a fun bike to ride even after all these years so I hold onto it, but it gets used a handfull of times a year and it's not getting a $200 avalanche tune! I will tear down the swinger again this weekend and sort out the spv valve and - hopefully - have a bike again instead of a pogo stick!

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,671
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    But wouldn't a custom tuned Avalanche function better than a base tuned mcloed? Once Avalanche changes it then it's an entirely different shock.
    A custom tuned swinger 3 way has no compression adjustment. It becomes an expensive single tune shock.

    When as an SPV shock it actually has some compression adjustment. While SPV isn't a good damper, it's still good enough for the application, it is easily tuned to the rider and bike and it's already paid for.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2

    Low oil level?

    I may be in a similar situation geoffpw, I hope it's ok jump in here

    I just picked up a 2004 Specialized Enduro Pro from Craigslist and it had this shock on it(Swinger 3-way SPV). Im debating if I should spend any effort on oil change/rebuilding or get another shock. I just came back from the garage to research one thing I noticed when I took it off the bike. I released all the air and tried different settings on the dampening and it's working but only the first 10-15 mm from bottom out position, after that it just pop out to fully extended like no oil dampening the movement. My assumption is that the oil level is low. If so, Is it worth to just do an oil change and give that a try or should I just give up on the shock and look for something else. I spent $600 on the bike and I don't really want to end up spending too much more. The forks seams ok and I plan to do an oil change on them as soon as I get the oil.

    Thanks for any reply,

    Regards,
    Emil

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    53
    Regarding my own Swinger, I disassembled the damper piston and, sure enough, the SPV valve was full of oil. Cleaned it out and reassembled with some silicone grease and now the shock works good as new. I'll prolly replace the seals at some point, but it's good for now.

    Emil: Definitely do the oil change / clean up service. It's not that hard, and the seals are prolly OK. Download the service manual from Manitou's site. Making the soft jaws is the hard part. I needed a really tight grip to undo mine. Used the hardwood block, 10mm drill approach and the secret was to line the jaws with leather - inside facing the shaft - to get enough friction. Old inner tube works for removing the air can. It is a bit messy - as it's hard to do the bleed with oil going everywhere.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffpw View Post
    Regarding my own Swinger, I disassembled the damper piston and, sure enough, the SPV valve was full of oil. Cleaned it out and reassembled with some silicone grease and now the shock works good as new. I'll prolly replace the seals at some point, but it's good for now.

    Emil: Definitely do the oil change / clean up service. It's not that hard, and the seals are prolly OK. Download the service manual from Manitou's site. Making the soft jaws is the hard part. I needed a really tight grip to undo mine. Used the hardwood block, 10mm drill approach and the secret was to line the jaws with leather - inside facing the shaft - to get enough friction. Old inner tube works for removing the air can. It is a bit messy - as it's hard to do the bleed with oil going everywhere.
    Thanks for your input @geoffpw

    It was pretty easy to get the air canister off but the control eyelet was a little harder but with the shaft clamped HARD with some wood I got it off. For sure the oil level was low. I removed the remaining oil (I did not disassembly the valve assembly at this point, I just wanted to know if an oil change would do anything) and topped off with some motocross fork oil 5wt and yes, it was a big difference. I need to turn some new eyelet bushings on my lathe before I get to try it on the bike. I have some shock oil coming in so I'll take it apart again and replace with the right oil.

    Another great source with pictures for the rebuilt Henrique Perry's Library | Photobucket

    Regards,
    Emil

Similar Threads

  1. Les 29 Swinger Kits
    By seandm in forum Pivot Cycles
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-02-2014, 08:45 PM
  2. 6.6 with Manitou x4 swinger?
    By deesta in forum Intense
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-10-2012, 04:17 AM
  3. swinger stroke
    By jo30 in forum Trek
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-30-2012, 05:49 PM
  4. Fox 36 TALUS no damping after oil change
    By Skooks in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-22-2011, 11:59 PM
  5. swinger 4 way
    By brankulo in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-25-2011, 01:57 PM

Members who have read this thread: 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.