Stuck Down Swinger- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Stuck Down Swinger

    So I was given a manitou swinger, obviously since it was free it had some issues.

    The main issue is, it's stuck down. The negative chamber is pressurised enough that it takes the whole 300psi my shock pump can deliver to get it to full extend. It's still sealed well enough that it'll stay extended for weeks.

    It's a 4 way and has the reservoir branching off the small end of the air canister, so to remove the air canister will mean unscrewing the reservoir neck from the main shock body. That's difficult to do with a stuck down shock.

    Does anyone have any good shortcuts or workarounds to get this thing unstuck without rendering it scrap?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  2. #2
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    By the way the swinger does not use a negative chamber only some of the air cans use a negative mcu bumper not all. The easiest way I have done the removal of the air can is full dissembly and full rebuild very easy to do. Release all air pressure , remove end cap from the IFP chamber, cycle shock to relocate IFP until you can then remove the air can. Shoft jaw the piston in a vice and remove the end cap with rebound assembly. Clean the whole unit out with alcohol , lint free rags, bath bleed reassemble setting IFP to proper depth , 2cc air piston fluid on top of IFP and all should be good. Not too many tools are required to do this . Soft jaws for manitou shafts, IFP locater, ( if you are doing a bench bleed then a bleed bowl is needed to remove air caity from under the IFP cavity) If you need help PM me I can help I have serviced thousands of swingers and ISX style including revox.

  3. #3
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    Not an expert so don't know a better method but had an issue with the neg on a 4-way here, needed a quick fix, and ended up drilling a small hole in the base of the aircan where the wiper/oil seals are located. It allowed me to drain the neg and seal it up again afterwards.
    Last edited by EmanResu; 06-24-2009 at 08:18 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAKETHOMAS
    By the way the swinger does not use a negative chamber only some of the air cans use a negative mcu bumper not all. The easiest way I have done the removal of the air can is full dissembly and full rebuild very easy to do. Release all air pressure , remove end cap from the IFP chamber, cycle shock to relocate IFP until you can then remove the air can. Shoft jaw the piston in a vice and remove the end cap with rebound assembly. Clean the whole unit out with alcohol , lint free rags, bath bleed reassemble setting IFP to proper depth , 2cc air piston fluid on top of IFP and all should be good. Not too many tools are required to do this . Soft jaws for manitou shafts, IFP locater, ( if you are doing a bench bleed then a bleed bowl is needed to remove air caity from under the IFP cavity) If you need help PM me I can help I have serviced thousands of swingers and ISX style including revox.
    Can the aircan on the swinger be removed from the rebound knob end or do you need to unscrew the reservoir?
    To unscrew the reservoir I will need to make some soft jaws, if it can come out the top then I need to find a 6 sided socket approx 30mm to remove the internal cap.

    If there is no negative air spring, then is stuckdown simply caused by air getting trapped on the other side of the topout bumper? The seal seems very good for that.
    My shock is similar to Username's but I hope to solve this without drilling. I was unable to vent it using feeler gauges.

    Does anyone have a section view through one of these showing the seal arrangement?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  5. #5
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    I need to rephrase myself in that negative pressure is equalized similar to the FLOAT system but if you are having a stuck down on the picture above removal of the air can is done once you are able to access the inner air an cavity the quad seal is located on the damper endcap located in the air can.A really weird tool is used to unthread this section.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAKETHOMAS
    I need to rephrase myself in that negative pressure is equalized similar to the FLOAT system but if you are having a stuck down on the picture above removal of the air can is done once you are able to access the inner air an cavity the quad seal is located on the damper endcap located in the air can.A really weird tool is used to unthread this section.
    Aha, so the quad seal is removed with the seal head?

    If so, that helps a lot. I just need to make or modify a tool to get that cap out.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  7. #7
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    I forget the tool size I know its metric though and yes you can get a hub bearing socket for autos and cut the middle out of it then weld back together shorter then cut away a section of the side allowing room to slide around the piston diameter. Hope that makes sense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRAKETHOMAS
    I forget the tool size I know its metric though and yes you can get a hub bearing socket for autos and cut the middle out of it then weld back together shorter then cut away a section of the side allowing room to slide around the piston diameter. Hope that makes sense.
    I measure it at ~30.5mm (verniers don't quite fit down there). I have a 32mm wheel bearing socket, but that's way too fat. 1 3/16" 12pt socket fits inside the tube but doesn't quite fit over the hex.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  9. #9
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    It's 31mm, I ground a 30mm up easily enough. I think you're gonna need to be careful opening that as it'll be under the neg pressure. I'd be surprised if the pressure released before main air piston came off the threads too as there's a few o-rings under there that might keep it sealed well until it pops open fully. Doable though no doubt but I'm not familiar with working with a shock under that pressure so tiz upto you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanResu
    It's 31mm, I ground a 30mm up easily enough. I think you're gonna need to be careful opening that as it'll be under the neg pressure. I'd be surprised if the pressure released before main air piston came off the threads too as there's a few o-rings under there that might keep it sealed well until it pops open fully. Doable though no doubt but I'm not familiar with working with a shock under that pressure so tiz upto you.
    Yes I'm well aware it's an air-bomb. I'm pretty careful and still have all my fingers to prove it.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  11. #11
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    I know you know your stuff, just trying to help.

  12. #12
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    I just found the swinger service manual online. It was an easy find once you know the actual title of the paper you're looking for.
    This answered all of my questions, now I just need to get a 31mm 6 point socket.

    http://www.manitoumtb.com/manual_dow...rvice%20Guides
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  13. #13
    TNC
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    Dougal, I just noticed your post. I rebuilt my '05 4-Way Air last year...just out of guilt. Through the shop I bought the soft jaws, IFD depth setting tool, and a couple of other things. They also fit my ISX-6 shock and other piggyback coil shocks. The online Manitou tech directions were spot-on for rebuilding this unit. That big socket is an even 31mm on my shock. I bought a Gray brand socket at a local tool store and could only find it in an impact socket...$12. It's been quite awhile since I did the rebuild, and it was unremarkable as far as problems. The tech data was very good.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by TNC; 06-24-2009 at 08:18 PM. Reason: add pic

  14. #14
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    Got it apart.

    After searching high and low, a local tool shop had a 31mm koken socket on the shelf. I had to turn down the outside almost 3mm to make it fit.

    The airbomb came apart with a pop and everything contained besides some oil spray. Photo below.
    So now it's apart, I find it's an incredibly tight fit for the quad ring cap into the air-sleeve. Almost like the seal has swollen. What differences will I find in the new seal kit and how will this stop it being stuck down again?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  15. #15
    TNC
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    Through our shop, surprisingly I've never seen or heard of a stuck down on a Manitou air shock. Whatever design is in the mechanicals or seal, they're apparently a little more resistant to this than a Fox.

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