SID Race Vs Team (What does Blackbox do?)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    SID Race Vs Team (What does Blackbox do?)

    I will buy either of these forks but i cant decide. What does Blackbox do and does it worth it? Will i feel a difference if i got the Team?

    Also i wonder if it is possible to completely remove the pushlock to save weight?
    Last edited by Floriante; 08-17-2009 at 05:56 AM.

  2. #2
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    I've been thinking about making a new thread for this, but yours will do.

    The basic Motion Control system should already be fairly familiar to people. If not, there are several very good threads describing it's function quite well. In short, it's an very flexible system with both low speed and high speed compression damping, and a port orifice rebound damper. I'm going to skip it's ability to emulate a platform damper since it's not really relevant to this conversation.

    The Black Box damper has several key difference from the Motion Control damper described above.

    - This one's pretty obvious, but the compression knob has detentes.

    - The rebound damper is shimmed, so it won't pack down for fast hits. This is noticeable on the trail and well worth it.

    - The spring tube is titanium, and is much stiffer than the plastic spring. To compensate, the Floodgate adjustment is shorter, and much finer. So, in theory, you still get the same range of adjustment. Unlike the plastic tube which you can unscrew to gain access to the inside of the Black Box damper, the titanium one is riveted, so you need to drill them out and then use pop rivets to reassemble it. Speculation: The plastic spring tube had more give to it before opening the Floodgate, so even if the Floodgate was set pretty tight, the tube itself would allow some "cushion" before the Floodgate popped open. You don't get that with the titanium tube because it's movement is so much smaller. Also, because it doesn't open as far, unless Rock Shox made changes to compensate, it will flow less oil when open.

    - The titanium spring tube was used to create enough space for the Speed Stack, which is a shimmed circuit in series with the Motion Control. So after the Motion Control open the Floodgate, the oil still needs to push through the shims of the Speed Stack. This is problematic for me, since the Motion Control is already providing a high speed circuit, so why put an additional one inline with it? The shims stack is not tunable since it 1) cannot be access without destroying the low speed adjuster and 2) uses shims with "ports" in them. Since the shims take up the entire diameter available to them, the shims which flex has ports cut in them, which allow the oil to flow through them as they flex upward.

    - The BB damper uses the Speed Stack shims for your low speed compression for the two clicks past locked. For those two clicks, the low speed adjuster doesn't uncover the by pass port, and only progressively uncovers two channels which lead directly to the shim. Again, I don't know what Rock Shox did this instead of using a normal port orifice, since it just complicates things.

    Subjective: I was able to ride the Motion Control (with BB rebound damper upgrade) back to back with the Black Box damper, and the Motion Control felt more plush and felt like it handled better. For a given pressure, I also used more of my travel, more consistently. I could see where the BB damper might control pedal bob better, but it wasn't worth it to me. I hands down prefer Motion Control for it's better feel and more elegant design. Though the compression detentes are nice, my preferred fork was the SID Race with the $65 Black Box damper upgrade from universalcycles.com.

    All this said, I had bad quality control issues with my SID, and I've since sold it and bought another Fox.

  3. #3
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    I didnt understand even a word I know nothing about forks. Its not your fault.

    Is there a thread which explains how motion control works with examples and basically?

  4. #4
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    And is there a way to remove the Pushlock completely?

  5. #5
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    Motion Control threads:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=77062
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=136225
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1498056

    Yes, Pushlock can be removed, but it involves opening up the damper. It's much easier to remove it from the Race than the Team.

  6. #6
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    So... I can buy a SID Race

    And then remove the push lock (without any side effects) Do i need a new stuff for this?

    And finally i can buy a BB damper from the Universal Cycle and my SID Race becomes a Blackbox sid race?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floriante
    And then remove the push lock (without any side effects) Do i need a new stuff for this?
    Yes. There are threads about this you can search for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floriante
    And finally i can buy a BB damper from the Universal Cycle and my SID Race becomes a Blackbox sid race?
    Kind of. You'll have the old Motion Control with the new Black Box rebound damper. I consider this combination the best riding.

  8. #8
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    Not sure about the team but i had an 09 sid race on my xc bike and loved it!
    Still on training wheels

  9. #9
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    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=30475

    I will have to buy and install SID Team, WC rebound damper to my sid race. ok i got it.

  10. #10
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    WoW! Lots of information indeed, thanx to all! I have a 2009/2010 SID Race with the RC with pocloc, which I like abd use a lot. Been reading all the info posted and wondered what is best bang for the $$?
    I have a 2010 Orbea Oiz that I use mostly for dirt roads with stutter bumps. easy stuff, (OLDER rider here, NOT fast insane, stupid, anymore), Looking to even those out some and not be too soft.
    A.Just go with the SID Balckbox damper head/shaft only?
    B. Go with the SID damper above, AND the Titanium Damper Cartridge with RC?
    C. Go with just the Titanium Damper cartridge alone?

    Thanx in advance!!
    Training on Hills Builds Character, That's How I Got To Be One!

  11. #11
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    I'd just go with the Blackbox rebound damper only. In my opinion the standard MoCo compression damper was more plush than the Blackbox MoCo. However, the shimmed rebound damper is an excellent and economic upgrade, and I highly recommend it.

    Please remember just saying "Blackbox" damper refers to both the compression and rebound assemblies.

  12. #12
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    Thanx Bad Mechanic! I appreciate your time and help. And yes you are right as Blackbocx meaning=Both Compression and the rebound assemblies together.
    I guess when just using the Rebound damper shaft only can be called a "Half a Blackbox". LOL Thanx again!
    Training on Hills Builds Character, That's How I Got To Be One!

  13. #13
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    Anyone know who has these Black box rebound dampers for a reasonable price? Universal has them for $84.THANX!
    Training on Hills Builds Character, That's How I Got To Be One!

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