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  1. #1
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    Roco adjustments

    I checked the marzocchi website, but couldn't find anything on the air adjustment feature of the ROCO. What does it adjust? Ride height? Preload? (thought you did that with the spring adjuster)
    Also, anybody with experience on the shock know if the compression adjustment controls the whole stroke or just the ending stroke, like the 5th E...Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    The rocco is not an SPV shock, so it doesn't work like the SPVs in terms of bottom-out resistance. If you have a falling-rate frame, it may not be the best shock for your bike. If you look at the website, marzocchi says the compression adjustment is for "high speed" impacts. It will probably help resist diving on big impacts, but it's related to the shaft speed, not your forward speed. Turning it up will also probably make the suspension "harsher" and work less effectively.

    The air pressure isn't really an adjustment, because it doesn't really do anything to affect the shock, the reason for air pressure is to pressurize the piston which allows the oil to expand and be displaced. Generally, more air pressure in the resevior (non SPV shocks) usually increases the spring effect a little, but doesn't really change the compression characteristics. The marzocchi techs have said that the air pressure doesn't really change anything, it's just a "range" that works and doesn't have any adverse effects on the bike.
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  3. #3
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    Air pressure range?

    Thanks for the reply. I'm a little confused by the air pressure being a range that works, but doesn't actually do anything... Is it that b/c a certain amount of air is necessary for the shock to perform correctly, especially since it's user servicable? Which I guess means that after an oil change etc. you repressurize the chamber with air. It doesn't require the nitrogen charge (or whatever?) Is my understanding close?

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    Too little air pressure will let oil go past the piston, and screw up the performance of the shock. Marzocchi probably has a pretty big "safety margin" designed in with the air pressure range that they have listed.

    Too much pressure will probably resist the compression stroke too much, and may affect the spring rate of the shock too much. There'll be an upper-limit of the internal pressure as well, so higher pressure will put more pressure on the seals and internal parts.

    Your understanding sounds correct.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  5. #5
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    Thanks Jayem

    Was thinking of getting one for my Bullit. Do you think the shock would suit the frame?
    Ever serviced one? Is it as simple as their forks? I may wait until they add some low speed compression (RC2 next year?) but curious...

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    Mine works like a charm on a Nomad. I love the fact that it doesn't have a platform, finaly a shock that does a good job on small bumps! However it's at high speed that it performs very very nicely.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by santaheckler
    Was thinking of getting one for my Bullit. Do you think the shock would suit the frame?...
    Nope.

    You'll have to compensate on the bullit by running a higher spring rate, which will make it feel harsh because it will essentially be "oversprung", but that will be the only way to keep it from bottoming due to the bullit being a falling-rate design.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  8. #8
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    The word is the Rocco works well with a DW-Link bike.
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  9. #9
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    Shame...

    I can't adjust oil volume to control bottoming on a falling rate suspension frame. I guess I'll see how the Roco technology progresses next year...maybe they'll put more into it. I'm just looking for a user servicable shock that works well on the Bullit. Kills me to have to send in the shock for a $100 oil change...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by santaheckler
    I can't adjust oil volume to control bottoming on a falling rate suspension frame. I guess I'll see how the Roco technology progresses next year...maybe they'll put more into it. I'm just looking for a user servicable shock that works well on the Bullit. Kills me to have to send in the shock for a $100 oil change...
    I spoke with Tom Rogers, the designer of the Rocco, in the Marzocchi tent at Sea Otter in April this year. The shock was actually designed by him here in LA. He said you can add oil (on the oil side) of the compression chamber's piston to reduce the air volume (on the air side) and produce more rising rate bottom travel. Just adding air pressure alone increases bottom out resistance and does little (no noticeable) change to smaller bump sensitivity. Tom said that no special tools are required to disassemble the shock, "just a screwdriver and small crescent wrench". He said that alternate shim kits are available from Marzocchi for the Rocco. There is no platform valving, but there is slow shaft speed sensitive shims next to the main piston on both sides "to deaden wallow". Call Marzocchi, ask for Tom, he seemed to be an accessible guy, and ask if the Rocco could be tuned to work well using the same weight spring you have. (Note: the Rocco prices listed do not include spring. They are expensive.)

    You could get nearly the same if not the same performance from Risse Racign Shocks totally user serviceable Jupiter coil, probably for much less cost (not sure). You could call them and see about their experience with the Heckler.

    Like Jayem mentioned, the Heckler was apparently designed for a rising rate shock, like air or 5th-Element type coil. The Heckler's shock mounting alignment looks rather increasing in falling rate throughout compression travel.

    Stratos Helix shocks offer air-assisted coil for more rising rate effects and more adjustable preload for occasional large jump sessions. I haven't heard much about Stratos lately, but the web site is still up. I don’t think those shocks are factory sealed to the user either.

    - ray

  11. #11
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    Interesting...

    By the way, I don't plan on putting the Roco on the Heckler. I was thinking more on the Bullit. The old Vanilla RC worked ok (for its time) on that frame design, so I don't think the frame should absolutely need a shock like the 5th or DHX. The Roco should work out fine. Or atleast can be tuned to be fine. So from what it sounds like, I should be able to adjust low speed compression somewhat via internal shims? Hmmm. That don't sound too bad! I still may wait and see if they add external low speed damping next year, seems like that would make sense. I'll give Marzocchi a call and see how much shim kits are. That would make or break the idea for me.

  12. #12
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    Does anyone know what's the air pressure range for the roco? Just bought the shock, but didn't find it in the "manual".

  13. #13
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    yeah, i read about the Roco in Mountain Bike magazine, they said it can be rebuilt at home...that is freakin' cool, i don't like anybody else working on anything i ride...
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  14. #14
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    Non-platform for Bullit.

    Quote Originally Posted by santaheckler
    By the way, I don't plan on putting the Roco on the Heckler. I was thinking more on the Bullit. The old Vanilla RC worked ok (for its time) on that frame design, so I don't think the frame should absolutely need a shock like the 5th or DHX. The Roco should work out fine. Or atleast can be tuned to be fine. So from what it sounds like, I should be able to adjust low speed compression somewhat via internal shims? Hmmm. That don't sound too bad! I still may wait and see if they add external low speed damping next year, seems like that would make sense. I'll give Marzocchi a call and see how much shim kits are. That would make or break the idea for me.
    You mentioned the old RC for the Bullit. I didn't notice much bobbing or pedaling inefficiency on my first Bullit until I went to the longer 8.5 X 2.5 RC. Then it became a mushmobile on any climb or pitchup...very noticeable and fatiguing. Going to the 8.5 X 2.5 5th E coil changed all that very positively. If the ROCO has absolutely no platform, it might produce the same results on a Bullit. This wouldn't be a problem for freeride or mainly shuttled operation, but if used as an AM or all-around bike, it might be fairly noticeable. It may be working well on some of these more efficient designs like VPP, DW, Maestro, etc. Just something to consider. I too like the idea of a user serviceable shock.

  15. #15
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    I agree...

    I put a 7 7/8 eye to eye 2.25 stroke 5th on my Bullit (04) to see if there was any difference from the 8.5 / 2.5 5th that came on it. It pedaled much better without much of a geometry change. So I assume a shorter stroke= better pedaling sometimes?
    Anyway...
    I'd like to see the low speed compression adjustment on the ROCO to be able to tune out some bob when it's called for. I can live without actual spv in return for a shock I can service! Heck, I remember climbing an awful lot of stuff on my old bike with a Vanilla R...talk about basic!
    I'm really happy with the 5th E's I have now, but since they seem to be pulling out of the market, I'm starting to look for something that performs well enough without costing $100 to service.

  16. #16
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    Ray, question about the Roco

    Ray,

    You seem to know a bit about the Roco. Here is a question for you, Where do you add oil to the shock? I just bought a new Roco and the darn thing feels like it has no rebound dampening. No matter what I do, add air, adjust the rebound, adjust the compression, it does not seem to make the shock any less "springy". Any idea of what I should do?

    SAm
    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    I spoke with Tom Rogers, the designer of the Rocco, in the Marzocchi tent at Sea Otter in April this year. The shock was actually designed by him here in LA. He said you can add oil (on the oil side) of the compression chamber's piston to reduce the air volume (on the air side) and produce more rising rate bottom travel. Just adding air pressure alone increases bottom out resistance and does little (no noticeable) change to smaller bump sensitivity. Tom said that no special tools are required to disassemble the shock, "just a screwdriver and small crescent wrench". He said that alternate shim kits are available from Marzocchi for the Rocco. There is no platform valving, but there is slow shaft speed sensitive shims next to the main piston on both sides "to deaden wallow". Call Marzocchi, ask for Tom, he seemed to be an accessible guy, and ask if the Rocco could be tuned to work well using the same weight spring you have. (Note: the Rocco prices listed do not include spring. They are expensive.)

    You could get nearly the same if not the same performance from Risse Racign Shocks totally user serviceable Jupiter coil, probably for much less cost (not sure). You could call them and see about their experience with the Heckler.

    Like Jayem mentioned, the Heckler was apparently designed for a rising rate shock, like air or 5th-Element type coil. The Heckler's shock mounting alignment looks rather increasing in falling rate throughout compression travel.

    Stratos Helix shocks offer air-assisted coil for more rising rate effects and more adjustable preload for occasional large jump sessions. I haven't heard much about Stratos lately, but the web site is still up. I donít think those shocks are factory sealed to the user either.

    - ray
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by samanderson4
    Ray,

    You seem to know a bit about the Roco. Here is a question for you, Where do you add oil to the shock? I just bought a new Roco and the darn thing feels like it has no rebound dampening. No matter what I do, add air, adjust the rebound, adjust the compression, it does not seem to make the shock any less "springy". Any idea of what I should do?

    SAm
    I have no hands on experience with them. I hope to someday. Marzocchi tech support is usually very helpful if you call them. The number should be on their website.

    My understanding is if you release the air pressure you can disassemble the shock and replace or adjust oil volume after removing the floating piston in the reserve chamber. (also replace shims etc.) There is probably some air bleed technique to purge the oil of any air when replacing the floating piston.

    Give Marzocchi a call.

    - ray

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