Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.

    Does anybody know if you can use bottomless tokens on RS Pike Dual Position Air?

    I am seeing different information on it. One article by singletracks showed pics of the Pike Dual Position Air (white fork) with bottomless tokens on the air side, and another by bike rumor wrote that only the Solo Air (black fork) has bottomless tokens. I am wondering if there are different versions of the Dual Position Air.

    This pic clearly shows that the Dual Position Air has bottomless tokens.

    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-img_9555a.jpg

    Review: Rock Shox PIKE Fork | Singletracks Mountain Bike Blog

  2. #2
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    Bottomless tokens cannot be used in the Dual Position air. Go to Sram website and look at the service manual http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/si...e_manual_0.pdf

    No place to install the tokens on the Duel air models.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  3. #3
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    that probably is a white SA.

  4. #4
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    Re: Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Bottomless tokens cannot be used in the Dual Position air. Go to Sram website and look at the service manual http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/si...e_manual_0.pdf

    No place to install the tokens on the Duel air models.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Correct.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Bottomless tokens cannot be used in the Dual Position air. Go to Sram website and look at the service manual http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/si...e_manual_0.pdf

    No place to install the tokens on the Duel air models.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    It still is strange that the pic shows the white model which is the dual position air with bottomless tokens.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    that probably is a white SA.
    What is a white SA?

  7. #7
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    SA: solo air
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by filbike View Post
    that probably is a white SA.
    Maybe. It could of been the "prototype" model colored white then they decided to color it black after.

  9. #9
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    See http://forums.mtbr.com/all-mountain/...l#post10955715 - Ethan makes custom tokens which could be installed to the dual air. $39 for a set of three, $10 postage to europe.

  10. #10
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    I have recently purchased the solo air tokens, drilled the centre hole out to 10.5 or 11mm and slid it onto the air shaft of my dual position fork.
    So far so good. I added lots of slikoleum in case it does slide it shouldn't wear the coating off.
    I have added one token and where i would normally bottom, i now have 10mm of travel left. I would estimate 3 of these tokens could fit safely on the shaft if need be.

  11. #11
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    Another option if you're worried about shaft wear, is to add a dollop of grease in the air shaft. This is also more fine tunable with the added benifit of extra lube internally.

  12. #12
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    I'm going to do the same soon, do you think a small cable tie beneth the tokens would be a fine way to hold them in place?? I haven't opened up my fork yet to look at the internals to see if this is a valid solution.

    I just can't set the DPA up properly, need to add to much air to get it to sit up nicely without going though its travel to quick, so hope a token or two solves this.

  13. #13
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    Yes i have considered this. I'll open mine soon and asses what has happened to the token. If it has slid to the bottom I'll add a cable tie. If not the snug fit has done its job.

    Have you tried adding low speed compression to keep it up? Add enough until harshness sets in then back off 1 or 2 clicks.

    im 82kg geared up. I run 95psi at 20%sag. And a token.

  14. #14
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    Thanks Merida - I do use quite allot of SLC, maybe I should play with the psi a bit more though before I go to tokens. One thing though, I used the fork in its middle rtc3 setting the other day and it gave a much better feel, much more controlled action, maybe I should just keep it in this setting!

    I'm just over 84kg with kit on, running about 120 psi, gives me about 15% sag.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by olliep View Post
    Thanks Merida - I do use quite allot of SLC, maybe I should play with the psi a bit more though before I go to tokens. One thing though, I used the fork in its middle rtc3 setting the other day and it gave a much better feel, much more controlled action, maybe I should just keep it in this setting!

    I'm just over 84kg with kit on, running about 120 psi, gives me about 15% sag.
    how many hours on your damper? Maybe it needs a service or just bleed the air out. I noticed mine got really soft when it was due. Also check your rebound, it could be a little.slow. i really only found the token controlled bottoming but it should have a slight affect on keeping it a little higher in its stroke.

  16. #16
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    My design of DPA bottomless token. A little bit complicated, I know.
    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-img_20150321_081803.jpg

  17. #17
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    Nice. No problem with that at all. If you have access to a lathe why not. I do like the grub screw option.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeridaManiac View Post
    how many hours on your damper? Maybe it needs a service or just bleed the air out. I noticed mine got really soft when it was due. Also check your rebound, it could be a little.slow. i really only found the token controlled bottoming but it should have a slight affect on keeping it a little higher in its stroke.
    I've done say 35 hrs on the fork since new, I feel I may just be being a bit picky on how I want it to feel! I did speak with TFtuned and they said they rebuild all new pikes before sending them out as they don't come well setup from the factory, could this be true?? Thanks for your advice, I'll play some more and see how it feels, then might look at service or some home made tokens, like the look of those ncerni!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by olliep View Post
    I've done say 35 hrs on the fork since new, I feel I may just be being a bit picky on how I want it to feel! I did speak with TFtuned and they said they rebuild all new pikes before sending them out as they don't come well setup from the factory, could this be true?? Thanks for your advice, I'll play some more and see how it feels, then might look at service or some home made tokens, like the look of those ncerni!
    when they say well setup...do they mean well bled?
    I found mine new were very plush, but bottomed and travelled low in the stroke. I then went to do a lower leg service and discovered there was air in the damper. I hand bled it, as i didnt have the syringe and it was then much better. No air in the damper was detectable.
    The fork then stayed higher in the stroke and was less prone to bottoming. One token stopped me bottoming altogether. It lost a lot of that soft plush feling, but i liked it better. It had more control and gave more feedback. So i dont know if they are bled perfectly from the factory.

    in terms of being setup with correct shim stack ect, well its hard to send a fork out to the masses and have everyone like it. Im sure most forks could use a shim shuffle to get them working for you, in your environment.

  20. #20
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    I saw Rock Shox is coming out with tokens for the Dual Air Pike. QBP had an ETA of late August.

  21. #21
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    Get it straight, you are throwing around the WRONG terminology here, the Dual POSITION, not Dual AIR. Dual air was the old version that let you manually inflate the NEG PSI as well as POS, these days they're all SOLO air, but have DP available.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdiddy View Post
    I saw Rock Shox is coming out with tokens for the Dual Air Pike. QBP had an ETA of late August.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Get it straight, you are throwing around the WRONG terminology here, the Dual POSITION, not Dual AIR. Dual air was the old version that let you manually inflate the NEG PSI as well as POS, these days they're all SOLO air, but have DP available.
    A thousand apologies to you kind sir! Here's what Rock Shox is calling them:
    "RockShox Dual Position Air Bottomless Tokens 35mm"
    They never made a Dual Air Pike.

  23. #23
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    Yes, DPA for short. Anytime I hear Dual Air I think back to that fantastic setup they had and think maybe they're reconsidering. And actually, yes, they did make a Dual Air Pike, back when they made a Dual Air Reba.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdiddy View Post
    A thousand apologies to you kind sir! Here's what Rock Shox is calling them:
    "RockShox Dual Position Air Bottomless Tokens 35mm"
    They never made a Dual Air Pike.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  24. #24
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    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-image.jpg
    I printed a DPA bottemless token today with the 3d printer at school for my pikes that i have just ordered. I will put a grub screw through to stop it moving.

  25. #25
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    Hi people,

    I have both, Dual position 160mm and RC 150mm, and there a difference between and I don't like this. The Pike RC 150mm is much better feeling than the Dual Position.

    I talked with some specialist in suspensions and I'll transform my Dual Position in "normal", changing the complete cartridge on the left side, were we have the button for adjust the travel.

    I'll remove and place the "solo air". And now I'll be able to insert tokens (I know we will have for DPA soon) and the feeling will be similar to the other fork, I hope.

    From what I investigated, best Pike:

    1- RC
    2 - RCT3
    3 - Dual position

  26. #26
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    Just don't! It won't work. Inner surface of air-spring leg is different. Solo air has a tiny groove in it so air can pass between + and - side of the piston when fork is fully extended.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncerni View Post
    Just don't! It won't work. Inner surface of air-spring leg is different. Solo air has a tiny groove in it so air can pass between + and - side of the piston when fork is fully extended.
    doesn't DP also use a negative spring port?

  28. #28
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    No. Principle of dpa are 2 ports on the dpa shaft which goes through main piston. With button on the top of the cartridge you just choose which port will be used to transfer air between + and - spring. Therefore there is no groove on the inner surface of uppers.

  29. #29
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    Strange, this specialist in suspensions told me and recommended to change from DPA to solo air and is possible. Is not expensive also.

    But with this, I'll loose the button on the left that changes travel, all the internals are changed.. I'll clarify this...

  30. #30
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    It simply won't work. The only chance would be to get somewhere internals of old solo air system with valve on a piston.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncerni View Post
    It simply won't work. The only chance would be to get somewhere internals of old solo air system with valve on a piston.
    He had done several times already. Maybe I'm explaning this wrong.

    The idea is to buy all the solo air internals, remove the DPA stuff and replace with this. And it should transform the DPA in a "normal" Pike.

    I'll comeback to this topic after clear this and maybe with the changes done.

  32. #32
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    DPA CSU has no equalizing dimple, so you can't just insert a Solo Air spring and be done, you need to also replace the CSU.

  33. #33
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    You are getting bad info KarapA and given such would stay away from that "expert", tacubaya is correct. I also have the RCT3 in both DPA and SA and can say both are terrific forks. The DPA is a bit more progressive out of the box due to the smaller air chamber and I'd say a bit more finicky to set up but once you do, its butter just like my SA. I've got some RC time from a demo Giant and wasnt that impressed but I attribute that to my SA RCT3 settings not translating well to the RC. If you have having such dramatic differences I suspect its a setup issue.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    DPA CSU has no equalizing dimple, so you can't just insert a Solo Air spring and be done, you need to also replace the CSU.
    What is the CSU?

    I think the idea is replace everything...

    Thanks for the tips people.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarapA View Post
    What is the CSU?

    I think the idea is replace everything...

    Thanks for the tips people.
    Yeah, I couldn't find that acronym explained in the manual, but I'm assuming it means CrownSteererUpper or something similar.

    I now have a SA kit which I can't use in my DP Revs.

  36. #36
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    Im using two of those tokens for my Pike dual position air and I love it. It feels so much better than before. In June they are even shipped for free to the US!

    Token for Rock Shox Pike Dual Position Air (XU4NNA6EL) by designtoride

    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-625x465_3279108_9715809_1427645900.jpg

  37. #37
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    I have 2 tokens left, with packaging and instructions. I sold my bike with the dual position pike so don't need these.
    $20
    Rock Shox Tokens ? Pike Dual Position Air fork | FlowZone

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by paris View Post
    I have 2 tokens left, with packaging and instructions. I sold my bike with the dual position pike so don't need these.
    $20
    Rock Shox Tokens ? Pike Dual Position Air fork | FlowZone
    How hard where these to install on the DPA? From looking at the service manual it looks as if you would have to disassemble the left airshaft to get these on or is there an easier way? That's what I like about the ones golden alien posted; you can just clip them to the air shaft.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorrox View Post
    How hard where these to install on the DPA? From looking at the service manual it looks as if you would have to disassemble the left airshaft to get these on or is there an easier way? That's what I like about the ones golden alien posted; you can just clip them to the air shaft.
    Finally got around to trying one of my shapeways DPA tokens. 2 minute job to do:
    - Clean around left (travel adjust) fork cap area
    - Remove the air cap and bleed off the air, cycling between the two travel settings to vent both positive and negative air chambers
    - 10 mm socket removes the small nut around the air valve
    - lift off the nut and the travel adjuster
    - 24 mm socket removes the fork cap - gently lift out the cap and air shaft, pop on your token and bobs your uncle.
    - assembly is reverse of disassembly.

    The bad news is I really did not need another token - had to drop from 143 psi to 120 psi to get the same 20% sag (160 mm pike). The fork now felt way too unresponsive over small stuff. Dropped the psi to probably around 110 and 25% sag. The fork now felt more like it did before but with more sag I now lost my slack geo which sucked. Went home and pulled the token out and went back to my original settings.

    Bottom line for me is the Pike 160mm RCT3 DPA is pretty progressive to start with. I really was never bottoming out the fork anyway with my 20% sag setting so I should have known I did not need a bottomless token.

    If I every start doing big enough drops or carrying enough speed to bottom the fork , I may consider cutting / drilling one of these tokens to half the volume and try this again but for now I'll stick with no tokens.

  40. #40
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    I wonder why these aftermarket ones have a void on one side to clip onto the air shaft.

    The OE ones are full circumference and just slide up the end of the air shaft and are held in place by friction. The difference between the two designs shouldn't affect the installation time required.

  41. #41
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    I've ordered and installed 2 tokens from the kit 11.4018.032.004 (Bottomless Token Kit Qty 3 PIKE Dual Position Air A1) in my fork today. Tomorrow I'll do some riding and test the feeling. I'm 70kg and using 80PSI to prevent bottom out. Start now with 70PSI and going to see how the things going to be.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-img_9818.jpg  


  42. #42
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    still got 2 for sale.
    i don't have this fork anymore
    mike
    colorado

    email me if you want to buy them
    15 shipped
    mparis 17 at comcast dot net
    Last edited by paris; 04-07-2016 at 06:46 PM.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodrigo Forrequi View Post
    I've ordered and installed 2 tokens from the kit 11.4018.032.004 (Bottomless Token Kit Qty 3 PIKE Dual Position Air A1) in my fork today. Tomorrow I'll do some riding and test the feeling. I'm 70kg and using 80PSI to prevent bottom out. Start now with 70PSI and going to see how the things going to be.
    Make sure to report back

  44. #44
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    After riding more then three trails, here my opinion:

    Total improvement of the fork behavior. I feel the fork very responsive to small hits (because the lowered pressure), and I'm not riding deep in travel on fast impacts. In fast impacts, I'm felling the front of the bike ramp up, but in a confident way, without abrupt changes.

    My weight is 70kg, and I was running 80 PSI before (with give me 20% SAG), to prevent diving into travel. It's bottoms out in big hits (in slow hits more than fast hits).

    Now I'm running 70 PSI (with now give me 28% SAG), riding more supple in travel, without bottom out, yet. So, totally worth the cost. The total change time take 10 min.

    Some data:
    Rider weight: 70Kg
    Rockshox Pike RCT3 DPA 160mm 27.5", now with 2 tokens (kit 11.4018.032.004)
    Pressure: 70 PSI
    Rebound: 12 clicks from fast/open
    Low Speed Compression: 5 normal (in fast rock sessions 1)
    Bike: Diamondback Mission Pro 27.5"
    Shock: Fox Float X (with Fox volume spacer 3) at 150 PSI

    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-img_9882.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-img_9817.jpg  


  45. #45
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    This thread led me to find a guy that has designed a token for DP Pikes before RockShox had come up with their own (post above from goldenAllen) , so I asked him if he could modify it to work on a Revelation Dual-Position but I wanted some extra "security" to keep it in place, I suggested a groove all around where you could use a zip tie. He say yes and the next day and two different ideas, he decided to use a trought screw to apply pressure and sent me some renderings:

    Rock Shox Pike: Dual position air and bottomless tokens.-havrnsv.jpg

    I really liked the idea and ordered two, long story short this is how they came out:






    I have nothing to gain from this, but if anyone else is looking for the same thing and comes here: YES, you can fit tokens to Revelation Dual-Position, and you can get them from here:
    https://www.shapeways.com/product/TP...l-position-air

  46. #46
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    FYI, I have (4) Rock Shox factory bottomless tokens for the Pike Dual Position Air that I'll mail out to anyone for a few bucks each (per piece) ...

    Most of you only need 1-2 tokens unless you are really light and sending huge drops to flat. I'm using just 1 token right now for west coast trail riding and pretty happy, and I'm keeping a second token around if I ever step it up to bigger airs that require a more progressive ramp up at the finish.

    I bought a 3-pack of tokens but I didn't realize that my new bike & fork already came with another 3-pack as well ... so now I have (4) extra.

  47. #47
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    hello,
    I'd like to get 2 or 3 of those from you.
    How much and how would you like to get paid?
    Thanks,
    Andrew

  48. #48
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    ^ PM sent

  49. #49
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    Hello,
    I have a rockshox revelation on a trail bike which under my weight dives a bit or i have to run it a bit hard. I heard about bottomless tokens and ordered some straight away.
    Not realising they don't fit dual position systems.
    Since then I've been using my engineering brain to try to find a simple, cheap and elegant solution. (I like the 3d printed ones but 10 a pop!)
    So my current solution I will be testing when they arrive is rubber bungs for wine and beer making.
    They come in every size imaginable and can be drilled or bored out to slide onto the plunger in the fork leg, just like the New Pike ones do. see pictures above.
    The official bottomless tokens which don't fit my fork are 28mm in diameter and 20mm stack height.
    I measured the gap available not he plunger at full compression to be 100mm.
    Since solo air revelation forks can take 5 bottom less tokens at 20mm each or 100mm I think rockshox must be planning something.
    either way I'll let you all know how I get on. worst case I'm installing a set of 3 rubber elastomers in the fork leg.

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