remote reservoirs....- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    remote reservoirs....

    with the appetite to open up storage and water bottle options inside the rear triangle, will we ever see remote reservoirs as an alternative to piggy back reservoirs on rear shocks? marketing departments would have a field day coming up with benefits, real or perceived, also.

  2. #2
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    Seems like 10+ years ago there were a few remote reservoir shocks floating around. I added a Risse Racing shock to a frame and finding a home & proper mount for the reservoir was more effort than I thought it would be.

  3. #3
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    Specialized Brain Shock has a remote reservoir.
    Do the math.

  4. #4
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    Avalanche still makes them.


  5. #5
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    The Specialized Brain isn't a remote reservoir, it's a remote valve. It's position where it is to best react to trail imperfections. It's not doing anything to add oil volume, reduce temps, or allow for more precise tuning. It's merely way back there to best function in an "open/closed" capacity.
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  6. #6
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    Remote reservoirs usually add weight, hysteresis and additional points of failure.

    All things not particularly popular.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Seems like 10+ years ago there were a few remote reservoir shocks floating around. I added a Risse Racing shock to a frame and finding a home & proper mount for the reservoir was more effort than I thought it would be.
    i am sure it was a pain. i am speaking in reference to a frame manufacturer packaging the solution using modern frame manufacturing processes and materials. you could potentially move or hide (i am looking at you Trek Supercaliber) various parts of the shock into recesses/cavities in the frame. In doing so, the shape of the damper may become less of rate limiter kinematic design, tuning/climb switches could be moved into easier to access positions, and real estate for water bottles or other storage solutions might be realized.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Remote reservoirs usually add weight, hysteresis and additional points of failure.

    All things not particularly popular.
    in an absolute sense, there is no argument against that. piggy backs also add weight and additional points of failure, but they are widely used because somebody could justify the benefits. as for the hysteresis piece, i am gonna go out on a limb....not to say it doesnt exist, but i am sure it exists at a much more relevant/greater level on multi ton vehicles that are moving way faster and with way much force than a pedal bike with the proper hydraulic hose.

    anywho...its just a hypothetical.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    ...not to say it doesnt exist, but i am sure it exists at a much more relevant/greater level on multi ton vehicles that are moving way faster and with way much force...
    remote resi shocks are pretty much the standard for long travel vehicles...


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    remote resi shocks are pretty much the standard for long travel vehicles...
    yup. i have them on my F250...nothing like 8000 lb truck with 13" of travel. My 2.5 remote resi Kings haven't lagged enough for me to notice....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    The Specialized Brain isn't a remote reservoir, it's a remote valve. ...
    Har! I knew sombody was going to say that. A few years ago it had a reservoir and IFP in it. The new one has a reservoir and a bladder in it instead of a IFP. They both also had valves and the brain inertia valve. So it is a remote reservoir. Do your homework.
    Do the math.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    in an absolute sense, there is no argument against that. piggy backs also add weight and additional points of failure, but they are widely used because somebody could justify the benefits. as for the hysteresis piece, i am gonna go out on a limb....not to say it doesnt exist, but i am sure it exists at a much more relevant/greater level on multi ton vehicles that are moving way faster and with way much force than a pedal bike with the proper hydraulic hose.

    anywho...its just a hypothetical.
    I think the piggyback offers the better compromise, in general. Give it a couple years though, I'm sure it will circle back around though in the bike industry and everything will have externals and piggybacks won't work any more.

    Honestly, I'm not sure off road trucks generate higher fluid flow rates or not. Bikes have pretty high shaft speeds but smaller parts. Obviously the forces are lower, but I'm guessing it's more of a velocity issue then force issue?

    I don't see the point of sticking an external resi in some internal pocket or something to hide it though. The main point of an external resi is to increase oil volume to help with temperature control. Other than that, the only other real benefit is you get the IFP out of the main body so you can get more stroke for a given extended length.

  12. #12
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    I ran a Fox DH shock with a remote res on a Karpiel years ago. The res was mounted on the seatmast under the saddle. I was unimpressed and swapped it out with a superior Romic with a Ti spring. Yeah, yeah I know, but the owner of Romic was a neighbor so I got custom love.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    I think the piggyback offers the better compromise, in general. Give it a couple years though, I'm sure it will circle back around though in the bike industry and everything will have externals and piggybacks won't work any more.

    Honestly, I'm not sure off road trucks generate higher fluid flow rates or not. Bikes have pretty high shaft speeds but smaller parts. Obviously the forces are lower, but I'm guessing it's more of a velocity issue then force issue?

    I don't see the point of sticking an external resi in some internal pocket or something to hide it though. The main point of an external resi is to increase oil volume to help with temperature control. Other than that, the only other real benefit is you get the IFP out of the main body so you can get more stroke for a given extended length.
    Push bikes produce high speed and also high frequency inputs which exaggerates the hysteresis, and while there is a good argument for having some hysteresis in off-road vehicles I don't think I would try introducing it by using a hose

    The main reasons for remote reservoirs are packaging and reducing heat in the nitrogen chamber - although that is a double edge sword as it means the main chamber won't dissipate heat as fast. Mountain bikes don't get hot enough for it to be a major problem so unless you don't have room for a piggyback there is no bebefit to a reservoir.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    The main reasons for remote reservoirs are packaging...so unless you don't have room for a piggyback....
    that's kind of the point of the entire thread....

    there are several things going on in the industry that impact packaging:

    1) exploration of different (more exotic) suspension designs which occupy real estate in different ways
    2) shorter seat tubes that result in lower standover heights, reducing in triangle real estate
    3) an appetite to move hydration from the rider's back to the frame, competing for real estate
    4) an appetite to keep ride essentials stored on the frame, competing for real estate
    5) more and more 29ers, which inherently push the down tube into the available real estate for tire tire clearance
    6) riders "over biking" with long travel bikes, which may tend to benefit from climb switch technology
    7) modern materials and manufacturing techniques....it seams that carbon tubing is growing in diameter

    i am not sure there is a rider on the planet who doesn't secretly admire the TWAT box on Specialized bikes, regardless of how you may feel about the brand. i may be in the minority, but i also admire Pole's packaging (sideways shock) on their new aluminum bikes that allows for two bottles. in that vain, unless there is a severe degradation in performance, exploring packaging alternatives could come with some benefits.

    on the hysteresis note: its everywhere, tires, frame, dampers, springs...sometimes i think we (me?) get caught wrapped around the axle (no pun) trying to reduce systems to one component...the systems are way more complex than just one component.

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