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  1. #1
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    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME

    An unsolicited endorsement for a great (so far) product: RWC Needle bearing kit. (RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS, 6MM & 8MM)

    The premise: The bushings used in shock eyelets are really tight and draggy. If you have a bike design with a shock that's actuated via a rocker link, the link has to rotate in your shock eyelet every time you suspension cycles. Replacing the draggy bushing with a nice smooth needle bearing gives you a more active, smoother suspension.

    I was skeptical of this, but saw rave reviews over on the Evil board so I installed this $30 kit on my Following. It has exceeded my expectations in every way. Suspension is much more active, and responds to small bumps much much better. You can actually see this in action just looking down at the shock as you ride: it moves and cycles much more quickly over chatter than before.

    Seriously, if you have a bike with a rocker-activated shock (so Santa Cruz, Giant, Trek to name a few) get this kit.

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    Just ordered one for my following after reading the thread over on the evil forum. Can't wait to see the difference.

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    I had one my Trance X, it definitely was smoother/easier to move but you need to keep up with the maintenance. Pull out the needles, clean everything with alcohol then re-grease every few months.

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    I have nothing but good things to say about RWC and their product. They were eager to answer questions before ordering, shipping was very fast and reasonable and the needle bearing kit did exactly what they said it would do. Small bump compliance was noticeably improved, as was the over all liveliness of the rear suspension.

    Yes, its slightly more maintenance every couple of months or so. We are talking about a few minutes here. I just added it to my air can clean and re lube cycle I did every 60 days. No big deal.

    I have a new frame now, and will be ordering a RWC kit for it shortly.

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys. We have worked hard on perfecting these kits over the years and feel we really have them dialed now. Your feedback is always appreciated.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Thanks guys. We have worked hard on perfecting these kits over the years and feel we really have them dialed now. Your feedback is always appreciated.
    can you link me to the kit id need for a 2014 giant trance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by obs08 View Post
    can you link me to the kit id need for a 2014 giant trance?
    Same request but for Evil Following. On my way out the door and don't want to forget to search the Evil forum when I get back but I'll get the email notification for replies this thread... Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Same request but for Evil Following. On my way out the door and don't want to forget to search the Evil forum when I get back but I'll get the email notification for replies this thread... Thanks.
    The Following uses NBKRWC2185. The top end of the shock inside the DELTA Link has lots of rotation and the kit will make a big difference for you. The lower shock eyelet also has some rotation inside it, although considerably less. Most report the best results from changing both ends on that particular frame. If you want to do both ends, you will need two kits (same kit for each end).

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by obs08 View Post
    can you link me to the kit id need for a 2014 giant trance?
    Almost all the Giant frames use the NBKRWC2185 kit. However, right around 2015 many of the frames started shipping with bearings mounted in the rocker arm on opposite sides of the shock. If you don't have bearings under the shock bolt, you will need our needle bearing kit. If you do have bearings under the shock bolt, it would be redundant to add one of our kits. For the Maestro frames you can only change the top end of the shock. The bottom has a 15mm thru-pin.

    Oh, and the link: RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS, 6MM & 8MM

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    The Following uses NBKRWC2185. The top end of the shock inside the DELTA Link has lots of rotation and the kit will make a big difference for you. The lower shock eyelet also has some rotation inside it, although considerably less. Most report the best results from changing both ends on that particular frame. If you want to do both ends, you will need two kits (same kit for each end).
    Just to be abundantly clear, so it's about $35 for just the upper eyelet or about $70 for both and I need a ~$20 tool?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Just to be abundantly clear, so it's about $35 for just the upper eyelet or about $70 for both and I need a ~$20 tool?
    Yes. Although the tools are a bit more than that. Depending upon what you have handy and your mechanical ability, you can improvise and skip the tools, but there is some risk of getting the needle bearing cup mashed. Not cheap, but guaranteed to be worth it.

  12. #12
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    Do you guys plan on offering a kit for the Yeti ASRc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Yes. Although the tools are a bit more than that. Depending upon what you have handy and your mechanical ability, you can improvise and skip the tools, but there is some risk of getting the needle bearing cup mashed. Not cheap, but guaranteed to be worth it.
    I'd rather do it right and get the tools. I hate to be a pest but can you give me the exact product number or a link to the tool (tools?) I need?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Do you guys plan on offering a kit for the Yeti ASRc?
    If it's 2014 or later, it also requires kit NBKRWC2185. That is the most common size of frame mount. That's for the end that mounts in the ASRc Link. I would not change the top tube end of the shock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    I'd rather do it right and get the tools. I hate to be a pest but can you give me the exact product number or a link to the tool (tools?) I need?
    No problem. The tools are here: DU Bushing and Needle Bearing Shock Tool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    No problem. The tools are here: DU Bushing and Needle Bearing Shock Tool
    Sorry I'm confused, do I need the green tool and the blue tool? What about the gold tool?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Sorry I'm confused, do I need the green tool and the blue tool? What about the gold tool?
    The green one is recommended for sure. It's for pressing in or pressing out the needle bearings and that's the most important part to get right. The blue tool works with the green one. It's for pushing out a DU bushing. Your shock may not have a metal DU bushing pressed in. It may have the plastic bushings and pin. The DU pilot can still be useful for pushing out the pin. The tools can be used with a vise or with a threaded rod and nuts & washers. The handles pictured on the site are part of the Hub Bearing Press.

    Hope that helps!

  18. #18
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    Quick Changeout Pictorial

    A few pics to give you an idea of the changeout process...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-5010_nb_instl_1.jpg  

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  19. #19
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    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME

    For a Tallboy v1.1, is it needed to change both ends, or is the link side enough?

    It does have the igus bushings (I.e. Not the old ones)

    10x
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrenPerets View Post
    For a Tallboy v1.1, is it needed to change both ends, or is the link side enough?
    Oren, I would do the link side only. There is little to no rotation in the other eyelet.

    Edit: In case you need to know, NBKRWC2185 fits almost every Santa Cruz, including your Tallboy.

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    This is what I liked about Chris. The first time I asked about a frame he told me not to bother with one end because of the lack of rotation. You can't more honest then that.

    I have the needle bearings on my Lenz and Riot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    The green one is recommended for sure. It's for pressing in or pressing out the needle bearings and that's the most important part to get right. The blue tool works with the green one. It's for pushing out a DU bushing. Your shock may not have a metal DU bushing pressed in. It may have the plastic bushings and pin. The DU pilot can still be useful for pushing out the pin. The tools can be used with a vise or with a threaded rod and nuts & washers. The handles pictured on the site are part of the Hub Bearing Press.

    Hope that helps!
    No idea what a DU bushing is... anyone know if the Evil Following has this?

  23. #23
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    DU Bushing

    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    No idea what a DU bushing is... anyone know if the Evil Following has this?
    Here is a picture of a Bushing and a set of reducers. Most all full suspension bikes that have a shock have either a bushing or a bearing which allows rotational motion
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-bushings-reducers.jpg  


  24. #24
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    I see on the website that these are compatible with the Cane Creek DB inline. Are they also compatible with the DBAir CS?

  25. #25
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    No. The DBair eyelets are smaller than the Inline.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    No idea what a DU bushing is... anyone know if the Evil Following has this?
    The stock Monarch has DU Bushings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottW View Post
    I see on the website that these are compatible with the Cane Creek DB inline. Are they also compatible with the DBAir CS?
    If you are able to send us your shock, we can convert to 15mm eyelets. Cost is $20 for one end or $30 for both. That would make your shock compatible with our needle bearing kits and or any Fox shock hardware.

  28. #28
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    Hi Chris,

    I got a Santa Cruz Nickel with a RS Monarch RT3 on it. What do I need? I can't remember if it has DU bushings or not and I'm pretty sure the shock doesn't rotate at the top pivot.

    Thanks,
    Shawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Hi Chris,

    I got a Santa Cruz Nickel with a RS Monarch RT3 on it. What do I need? I can't remember if it has DU bushings or not and I'm pretty sure the shock doesn't rotate at the top pivot.

    Thanks,
    Shawn
    Hi, Shawn. NBKRWC2185 for the swing link end.

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    I liked RWC needle bearing on my old bottlerocket, it made a big positive difference, but I was unable to find kit for my new bike. Its Monraker Foxy with 22.2x10mm hardware. Also a friend of mine has the same problem with Commencal Meta SX, same size hardware.

    Is there any solution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    I liked RWC needle bearing on my old bottlerocket, it made a big positive difference, but I was unable to find kit for my new bike. Its Monraker Foxy with 22.2x10mm hardware. Also a friend of mine has the same problem with Commencal Meta SX, same size hardware.

    Is there any solution?
    Unfortunately, no. We've got the Mondraker Summum & Durham 10mm hardware covered with a special kit, but they changed things up with the Foxy. We may have something for the Commencal this coming year (already got a prototype that needs a few tweaks).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    The stock Monarch has DU Bushings.
    So I need two of this product number: NBKRWC2185

    And the blue and the green tool, and access to a vice grip, in order to do this "right"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    So I need two of this product number: NBKRWC2185

    And the blue and the green tool, and access to a vice grip, in order to do this "right"?
    Ideally, yes, a kit for each end, the green tool for NB installation, and the blue pilot to use with the green tool to push the old DU bushing out. I would use a threaded rod and nuts if you don't already have the Hub Press handle set or similar on hand. You could use a rubber mallet I suppose, but I prefer the slow and steady control of threads to pull things together.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Hi, Shawn. NBKRWC2185 for the swing link end.
    Thanks Chris!

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    Chris, is there a kit for the Canyon Strive carbon? I had great results running your kit on my Devinci Atlas, but the upper shock eye of the Strive seems kind of tricky. It has both the shapeshifter gas spring attached to it as well as the swingarm.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeroenK View Post
    Chris, is there a kit for the Canyon Strive carbon? I had great results running your kit on my Devinci Atlas, but the upper shock eye of the Strive seems kind of tricky. It has both the shapeshifter gas spring attached to it as well as the swingarm.
    OK, that was pretty interesting to research. There may be small bearings pressed into the little "dogbone" links that actually contact the shock spacers. In other words, that top shock eyelet may already be riding on bearings. You would need to remove the shock bolt and slide the Shapeshifter yoke off. If you see bearings on either side of the shock, you are set. If not, we would just need to know the bolt diameter and the width of the shock hardware between the dogbone links. Looks like the very common 21.85.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    If you are able to send us your shock, we can convert to 15mm eyelets. Cost is $20 for one end or $30 for both. That would make your shock compatible with our needle bearing kits and or any Fox shock hardware.
    How are you doing this? drill and ream or ???? post a picture of your fixture setup.....I may want to get a shock modified

  38. #38
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    Hey Chris,

    What do you charge to install a kit on one end, if I pay for all shipping?

    Can they be cleaned and regreased without taking the kit apart?

    Thanks,
    Shawn

    PS - Have a wonderful New Year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Ideally, yes, a kit for each end, the green tool for NB installation, and the blue pilot to use with the green tool to push the old DU bushing out. I would use a threaded rod and nuts if you don't already have the Hub Press handle set or similar on hand. You could use a rubber mallet I suppose, but I prefer the slow and steady control of threads to pull things together.
    7" x 1/4 ish threaded rod or fully threaded bolt if you can find one works perfectly. The RWC tools are well worth the cost in my mind. You can punch/hammer I'm sure, but in terms of ease and precision the RWC tools are really quite nice.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    How are you doing this? drill and ream or ???? post a picture of your fixture setup.....I may want to get a shock modified
    We have a custom multi-bladed reamer. No drilling, just the one tool that we turn by hand. I should mention that we cleared the process and amount of material removal with CC. The factory shock eyelets are engineered with enough excess material that the modification does not affect the strength of the eyelet.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Hey Chris,

    What do you charge to install a kit on one end, if I pay for all shipping?

    Can they be cleaned and regreased without taking the kit apart?

    Thanks,
    Shawn

    PS - Have a wonderful New Year!
    Thank you, Shawn! When a customer is already paying to send in a shock and have the eyelets modified, we don't charge anything additional to install the needle bearings while we have it (just the cost of the needle bearing kit, of course).

    To regrease, the shock bolt is removed, the shock swung out, the inner ring (axle) carefully removed, and grease applied inside the bearing. It's quite simple. HOWEVER, they are MAX bearings (for greater strength). This means the bearing cup assembly is completely full of needle rollers and has no cage or retainer. Once the inner ring is removed, grease and surface tension are all that hold the needle rollers in the cup. If one is not careful, the needle rollers can fall out and get lost on the floor. If they do come out, it's no problem to stick them back in. The problem comes if one is not prepared for them to fall out...

    I live in Arizona and almost never ride in the wet. For anyone in a similar riding environment, you can pretty much install these and forget about them. While the sealing system is pretty effective, wetter environments will require periodic inspection in order to determine a suitable schedule for greasing.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Thank you, Shawn! When a customer is already paying to send in a shock and have the eyelets modified, we don't charge anything additional to install the needle bearings while we have it (just the cost of the needle bearing kit, of course).

    To regrease, the shock bolt is removed, the shock swung out, the inner ring (axle) carefully removed, and grease applied inside the bearing. It's quite simple. HOWEVER, they are MAX bearings (for greater strength). This means the bearing cup assembly is completely full of needle rollers and has no cage or retainer. Once the inner ring is removed, grease and surface tension are all that hold the needle rollers in the cup. If one is not careful, the needle rollers can fall out and get lost on the floor. If they do come out, it's no problem to stick them back in. The problem comes if one is not prepared for them to fall out...

    I live in Arizona and almost never ride in the wet. For anyone in a similar riding environment, you can pretty much install these and forget about them. While the sealing system is pretty effective, wetter environments will require periodic inspection in order to determine a suitable schedule for greasing.
    Wow, now that is customer service! Thanks, I'm going to get this done. And, I'm in So. Cal. and never ride in the rain.

  43. #43
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    This is a little off topic but I have to put my $.02 in. I don't have the needle kit for my bike, specialized design, I do have Chris's XD15 bottom bracket on my Stumpjumper FSR. If you guys need to replace your BB I would highly recommend his XD15. This thing is indestructible. I've been running mine for 3 years now, replaced the seals once. Easy to maintain, I can remove, clean, and replace in about an hour. You will never have to buy another BB again. Thanks for a great product Chris.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBurnsie View Post
    This is a little off topic but I have to put my $.02 in. I don't have the needle kit for my bike, specialized design, I do have Chris's XD15 bottom bracket on my Stumpjumper FSR. If you guys need to replace your BB I would highly recommend his XD15. This thing is indestructible. I've been running mine for 3 years now, replaced the seals once. Easy to maintain, I can remove, clean, and replace in about an hour. You will never have to buy another BB again. Thanks for a great product Chris.
    Thanks for this, but I must give proper credit here--unlike the RWC Needle Bearing Kits, the XD-15 bottom brackets are an Enduro product. We were involved in the original conception to the degree that we approached Enduro with the high-nitrogen steel concept, but the production of the XD-15 is not something we at RWC can take credit for. I will say that we do our own hands-on QA on every bottom bracket and provide unrivaled support on the Enduro products as well as our own.

  45. #45
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    Wondering why OE's would have bshings instead of needle bearings if there is a performance advantage. Does it boil down to being a little bit more of a pita to deal with w/ regards to cleaning/greasing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Wondering why OE's would have bshings instead of needle bearings if there is a performance advantage. Does it boil down to being a little bit more of a pita to deal with w/ regards to cleaning/greasing?
    Price of the parts may be part of the reason. Labor cost is another. Every single shock end would have to have the right inner ring installed because of the tolerance range. That's why we include 3 inner rings of varying outside diameters. Those assembling the bikes are not likely going to pay attention to such details. Part of it may also be the "This is the way we've always done it" attitude. Although some brands (I think Canyon on some models) are shipping with needle bearings. I wouldn't think that maintenance is a part of their decision making process. In most cases not much maintenance is required.

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    How much does it cost to get a canecreek eyelet reamed out?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    How much does it cost to get a canecreek eyelet reamed out?
    Other than shipping, we charge $20 to do one end of the shock or $30 to do both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndude23 View Post
    How much does it cost to get a canecreek eyelet reamed out?
    You should also ask how it's being done...........set up and such

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    He posted this up the page a bit ago.

    "We have a custom multi-bladed reamer. No drilling, just the one tool that we turn by hand. I should mention that we cleared the process and amount of material removal with CC. The factory shock eyelets are engineered with enough excess material that the modification does not affect the strength of the eyelet."

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    Do you have a kit that works with the 2014Lapierre Zesty (or Spicy) AM with a Monarch shock (200x57mm)? I would think only one kit since the shaft mount is 90 deg offset mounted (i.e. no rotation in that axis).

    I also have these bushings Offsetbushings.com | Standard & Offset bicycle shock hardware – Offset Bushings | Shock Mounting Hardware to replace the standard ones to slacken the bike a bit. I would think these would still work, but would love any feedback.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    Do you have a kit that works with the 2014Lapierre Zesty (or Spicy) AM with a Monarch shock (200x57mm)? I would think only one kit since the shaft mount is 90 deg offset mounted (i.e. no rotation in that axis).

    I also have these bushings Offsetbushings.com | Standard & Offset bicycle shock hardware – Offset Bushings | Shock Mounting Hardware to replace the standard ones to slacken the bike a bit. I would think these would still work, but would love any feedback.
    The Zesty with Monarch would not be a problem. However, you would not be able to run needle bearings AND offset bushings. There is only so much room inside a shock eyelet and I'm afraid it's an "either or" proposition in this case.

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    Hi do your needle bearings work with avalanche shocks (eg the chubie). From the avalanche webpage the standard rear shock bushing is a garlock 07du08 so it is a little bit smaller than the usual fox/rockshox bushing. Thanks

  54. #54
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    Expounding on that, do you think a RWC kit is worthwhile for the Canfield Riot? If so, one or both ends?

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussieprime View Post
    Hi do your needle bearings work with avalanche shocks (eg the chubie). From the avalanche webpage the standard rear shock bushing is a garlock 07du08 so it is a little bit smaller than the usual fox/rockshox bushing. Thanks
    It appears you are right. That bushing appears to have an OD of 17/32" inches, making the eyelet bore about 13.5mm. We need a 15mm bore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    It appears you are right. That bushing appears to have an OD of 17/32" inches, making the eyelet bore about 13.5mm. We need a 15mm bore.
    Cheers thanks for confirming

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    Expanded Instructions now Available

    We added a more detailed pictorial to the website. We'll be working on more. Let me know if any of the steps listed are unclear: RWC SHOCK NEEDLE BEARING INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Expounding on that, do you think a RWC kit is worthwhile for the Canfield Riot? If so, one or both ends?

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    I'm not sure, but I can tell you how to find out. Please see the pic below. You would need to use tape or other easily removable method for making two lines on your frame (one on the seat stay and one on the shock, as pictured). Let the air out of the shock and move the rear triangle through its complete travel. If the two lines stay in line with each other all the way through the travel, there is no rotation inside the shock eyelet and you would gain nothing by changing it to a needle bearing. However, if those two lines "bend" apart from each other during any part of the travel, then you would benefit from a needle bearing kit. Same principle applies to the other end of the shock.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  59. #59
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    Thanks Chris!

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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Thanks Chris!

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    No problem. Please report back on whether or not much is happening in either eyelet.

  61. #61
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    Will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Thanks Chris!

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    Don't post you're results, I'm very happy believing I needed both ends.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Don't post you're results, I'm very happy believing I needed both ends.
    Haha.

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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Don't post you're results, I'm very happy believing I needed both ends.
    +1!

    I'm lazy and just ordered the same thing for my Riot that TwoTone did for his.

  65. #65
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    Hi Chris,
    Do you have a kit for the Evil Insurgent (Monarch Plus RC3 Debonair)?
    Thanks,
    G

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    Hi Chris,
    Do you have a kit for the Evil Insurgent (Monarch Plus RC3 Debonair)?
    Thanks,
    G
    Hi, G. Yes. NBKRWC2185 is the kit you need. If you wanted to also do the lower shock mount, another kit of the same size would be needed.

  67. #67
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    I recently went to go and fit my spare RWC Needle kit to my Manitou McLeod, but it litterally fell through the eyelet!
    The eyelet fits standard DU bush, and also the 5piece low frictions bushings fine.

    Slightly worrying.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    I recently went to go and fit my spare RWC Needle kit to my Manitou McLeod, but it litterally fell through the eyelet!
    The eyelet fits standard DU bush, and also the 5piece low frictions bushings fine.
    Slightly worrying.
    I think something may be missing from the equation here. Please measure the inside diameter of the shock eyelet (empty). ...and post a pic of the bearing in question.

  69. #69
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    Its definitely a 15mm eyelet, as it running the same hardware I've used on my other shocks. The needle bearing just doesn't even need a press to go in the eyelet n slides out if I tip it up. Would removing and mounting on another shock cause it? It has been in another shock before n deff remember having to press it in n out of that one.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    Its definitely a 15mm eyelet, as it running the same hardware I've used on my other shocks. The needle bearing just doesn't even need a press to go in the eyelet n slides out if I tip it up. Would removing and mounting on another shock cause it? It has been in another shock before n deff remember having to press it in n out of that one.
    If it required pressing in and out of another shock then the original fit was obviously OK. It's sounds as if the cup did not spring back after the original compression. That makes much more sense than an unused bearing not fitting. The cup and roller assemblies are available separately on this page: +/- Tolerance Inner Rings for Shock Needle Bearing Kits. A spare assembly is only $6.95 and the inner rings are also available there. You certainly don't have to spring for an entire kit this time around.

  71. #71
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    I must admit that the solution for this application didnt look worthwhile over the long run.

    However, it's out long enough and there are enough users to say if it has reliability issues. The virtual absence of unsatisfied users indicates strongly very good things.
    Last edited by bing!; 01-11-2016 at 06:24 PM.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing! View Post
    I must admit that the solution for this application didnt look worthwhile over the long run.

    However, it's out long enough and there are enough users to say if has reliability issues. The virtual absence of unsatisfied users tells indicates very good things.
    We definitely had some initial bugs to work out but feel the kits are pretty dialed now. They come pretty highly recommended:

    "Last year I purchased a needle bearing shock kit for my race bike and I have been blown away by the performance advantage that it gave me. I was actually running that bearing kit for the majority of the North American Enduro Tour races last season on my way to my second consecutive overall title."

    --Kyle Warner

  73. #73
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    I just took my first ride with a new RWC needle bearing in the bottom end of my shock in a Santa Cruz 5010.
    I had installed it a couple days before and for about an hour was wondering why my suspension felt noticeably more active and sensitive until I remembered why.

    All I can say is, why in the world don't these things come stock in my bike?
    Very noticeable difference. I had a greater feeling of traction downhill and pedaling felt more responsive over rough terrain.

    And this was on a shock that had just been serviced and replaced brand new bushings.

  74. #74
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    Good job!

    I've been using this for about 3 months now.

    Works great, small bump compliance is noticeably improved, no reliability issues.
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  75. #75
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    Chris which kit do i need for a niner RIP 9 rdo?

  76. #76
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    Since we are on the topic, is a rwc kit a worthwhile investment on a bike like a 2014 Heckler?

    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer66 View Post
    Since we are on the topic, is a rwc kit a worthwhile investment on a bike like a 2014 Heckler?

    Thanks
    All you have to do is follow his directions he posted and see how much rotation is at the shock mounting points.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    All you have to do is follow his directions he posted and see how much rotation is at the shock mounting points.
    I though I could get away with just asking.

    I might have asked you that before but is your name music inspired?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sand0kan View Post
    Chris which kit do i need for a niner RIP 9 rdo?
    I would change the top only and it uses NBKRWC2185.

  80. #80
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    Just installed a lower bushing on my Trek Slash. Before, if I remover the top bolt, my shock wouldn't rotate at all. Now it's as smooth as can be. Well worth the $$$$.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigb73 View Post
    Just installed a lower bushing on my Trek Slash. Before, if I remover the top bolt, my shock wouldn't rotate at all. Now it's as smooth as can be. Well worth the $$$$.
    Thanks very much for that feedback. The "Full Floater" is one of the designs that does have significant rotation in both shock eyelets so changing that lower mount makes a lot of sense.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer66 View Post
    I though I could get away with just asking.

    I might have asked you that before but is your name music inspired?
    No, back when I was in the Navy, I was also into Punk, Alternative etc... and the front of my hair was bleached, so I got the nickname TwoTone.
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    No, back when I was in the Navy, I was also into Punk, Alternative etc... and the front of my hair was bleached, so I got the nickname TwoTone.

    I see, I was just asking since I really like the two tone era bands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

  84. #84
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    I don't know yet how awesome this works yet, but it should make a difference. Installed today on 2013 Fuel EX8. Removed the OE bushings with hand tools, pliers, screwdriver, light hammer. I was careful, but wasn't overly, as I was replacing the items I removed.
    For install, I am cheap, and handy; using a bolt, 2 washers, and a nut as a makeshift press. Greased the bore, pressed the needle cage in, assembled. The only issue I had was reassembly to the frame. The old bushing bearing assembly measured 39.81 and the new one 40.02. Tolerance issue, and couldn't get a reinstall. I loosened the lower pivot 1/2 turn to open it up, popped it in there, and torqued it all to spec.
    I had noticed before how that lower busing was just tight, and made no sense. This bearing freed up the rotation a bit, not sure how much this will help, but sure can't hurt either!


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  85. #85
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    Happen to know which kit can be used on a 2016 giant trance 27.5? Is it just the upper bearing only like on the 26" 2012 version?


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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoraa View Post
    Happen to know which kit can be used on a 2016 giant trance 27.5? Is it just the upper bearing only like on the 26" 2012 version?
    I recommend removing the top shock bolt and washer. If you find a bearing underneath it, you have the latest rocker design and don't need a needle bearing in the shock eyelet (the bearing in the rocker arm serves the same purpose).

    If there is not a bearing installed in the rocker arm next to the shock, then you need needle bearing kit number NBKRWC2185.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing! View Post
    I must admit that the solution for this application didnt look worthwhile over the long run.

    However, it's out long enough and there are enough users to say if it has reliability issues. The virtual absence of unsatisfied users indicates strongly very good things.
    I've been running needle bearings on both ends of my bike for over two years now, 250-300 hours of total moving time, mostly in the northeast US. I inspect and regrease them every winter, and every time they're still pretty well lubed and clean. Zero increased play or visible wear. In my experience, these are clearly more durable than Fox's polymer bushings (not that that should be surprising).

  88. #88
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    Hi guys i have a new dt swiss x313 odl carbon shock, do you know if i can upgrade to the enduro bushing kit? It seens that the dt swiss needs their special bushing kit with the balls joints for prevent the anodized wear coming from lateral torsions<br />
    <br />
    I have been using the enduro kit in my old monarch rt3 (22.2mm*8mm) and really noticed a better feeling of the suspension when i installed it from the rigid kit<br />
    <br />
    Any opinions? Thank you in advance

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wantax View Post
    Hi guys i have a new dt swiss x313 odl carbon shock, do you know if i can upgrade to the enduro bushing kit? It seens that the dt swiss needs their special bushing kit with the balls joints for prevent the anodized wear coming from lateral torsions<br />
    <br />
    I have been using the enduro kit in my old monarch rt3 (22.2mm*8mm) and really noticed a better feeling of the suspension when i installed it from the rigid kit<br />
    <br />
    Any opinions? Thank you in advance
    No, our kit won't work with the DT Swiss shocks, unfortunately.

  90. #90
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    Got this kit for a 2013 Rocky Mountain Instinct?


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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdemo76 View Post
    Got this kit for a 2013 Rocky Mountain Instinct?


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    This bike uses special hardware. Part number 33 is a 22.20mm long shock pin. The span is standard, but the OD is 12.7mm. Normally thats not an issue, but in this case, the pin fits inside the (part number 38) mounting reducers. The inner rings we use with our needle bearings have an 11mm OD that would not fit into the mounting reducers properly:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-rm_instinct_2013.jpg  


  92. #92
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    Kit for 2016 Trek EX 9.9 with Fox Reaktiv shock?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Kit for 2016 Trek EX 9.9 with Fox Reaktiv shock?
    If you look at the pics below you will see the upper and lower mounts. In the first pic, you will see the upper eyelet of the shock is custom. It's very wide. It's pretty much like the DRCV without the upper chamber. You can see the aluminum spacers on each side of the shock, similar to what is used with the DRCV. This leads me to think that there are bearings on either side. Remove the upper shock bolt and take a look. If there are cartridge bearings at the rocker arm ends, then you you need no needle bearing at top.

    Also notice in the pics below the lower mount appears to be offset/asymmetrical. All of our kits are symmetrical so we can't help with the full-floater end either...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-reactiv_lower_asymetrical_mount.jpg  

    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-reactiv_upper.jpg  


  94. #94
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    Gonna order one of these kits for the Wreckoning which I'm assuming is identical to the Insurgent/Following. Can anyone confirm?


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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdemo76 View Post
    Gonna order one of these kits for the Wreckoning which I'm assuming is identical to the Insurgent/Following. Can anyone confirm?
    Wreckoning is NBKRWC2185 as confirmed by a customer who has one.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Wreckoning is NBKRWC2185 as confirmed by a customer who has one.
    Thanks! Actually gonna go with two kits.


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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Thanks very much for that feedback. The "Full Floater" is one of the designs that does have significant rotation in both shock eyelets so changing that lower mount makes a lot of sense.
    is this available for a 2015 fuel ex? I didn't find it listed. Thanks

  98. #98
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    If only you did one for the new Mondraker Dune lower linkage. Its like the shock bushing was a after thought.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Some1callthekomsquad View Post
    is this available for a 2015 fuel ex? I didn't find it listed. Thanks
    Yes, the lower (full floater) mount uses kit NBKRWC3988.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    If only you did one for the new Mondraker Dune lower linkage. Its like the shock bushing was a after thought.
    Yeah, the 10mm hardware is problem...

  101. #101
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    I was about to order the 21.85mm kit for my 26" Knolly endorphin w/ 3D rocker links with a CCDBA but after reading through this thread I now see that I would have to ream the eyelets out from the shock? Can you confirm this? If so, I dont think I would be interested.

    If not, can you confirm that proper kit to purchase.

  102. #102
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    In this thread you can find the service Chris provides for CCBD shocks.

    Been a RWC Needle Bearing Customer for 8 years - just wanted to pop in while I am fitting a new shock, a new bearing set.
    Far and wide the kits are almost the most drastic component improvement able to be made on a mountain bike.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    We may have something for the Commencal this coming year (already got a prototype that needs a few tweaks).
    Anymore news on this?

    I'm after needle bearings for my Meta SX and I've been looking around but can't see anything yet.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie.chambers1 View Post
    I'm after needle bearings for my Meta SX and I've been looking around but can't see anything yet.
    Sorry, but it's not likely to happen. Some of the highly customized needle bearing kits we have produced cost the most to make and move the slowest. Here's just one example: RWC PRESENTS MONDRAKER SUMMUM/DURHAM NEEDLE BEARING KIT. A few riders of these frames expressed enthusiasm but we are sitting on way to many of these kits. We will likely stick with the sizes that fit a wide array of frames.

    Understand we really would like to be able to make a kit for every frame--I hate to ever say "no" to someone interested in our products. However, at the end of the day, we have make what we can be profitable on so we can be around to support what we sell. Hope you understand.

  105. #105
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    Press Tool Handle Set?

    I just purchased the green (installation) and the blue (pilot tool) to replace the lower needle bearings on my rear shock. I was not inclined to buy (high price) press tool handle set. What are people using to replace the handle set that I can get at HD or Lowes? I was thinking a threaded rod, about 8-12 inches and some washer and nuts to add pressure to the the other items I purchased from RWC. Show us your tools and how you did it plz...
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
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  106. #106
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    I found that a bench vise works very well.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    I found that a bench vise works very well.
    Yup....


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  108. #108
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    Hello, Chris. can you help confirm what kit is needed on a Lapierre Zesty 327 2014 bike? Thanks
    Does your your Zesty 327 rear shock mount look like this:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-2014-lapierre-zesty-327.jpg  


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    Hi Cris,

    Yes Exactly like that

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Kaiser View Post
    Hi Cris,

    Yes Exactly like that
    What they did with that frame by putting the "yoke" on the back of the shock is eliminate the need for a needle bearing. The back "fork" of the yoke is mounted to bearings, the other end is fixed to the shock eyelet, and all rotation inside the eyelet is eliminated. As far as the other end of the shock goes, unless it pivots on the mounting point to the point where you can see it moving when you cycle the rear suspension, you don't need a needle bearing at that end either.

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    Hi Chris,

    do you know which should I order for Canyon Strive CF 2015? I have Monarch RCT3 debon air. Both eyelets will be needed ? Also could you post it to Slovakia ?

    Thanks.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by StriveCF View Post
    Hi Chris,

    do you know which should I order for Canyon Strive CF 2015? I have Monarch RCT3 debon air. Both eyelets will be needed ? Also could you post it to Slovakia ? Thanks.
    This has come up in this thread previously. The Shapeshifter linkage is pretty complex and I have not had one apart. There may be small bearings pressed into the little "dogbone" links that actually contact the shock spacers. In other words, that top shock eyelet may already be riding on bearings. You would need to remove the shock bolt and slide the Shapeshifter yoke off. If you see bearings on either side of the shock, you are set. If not, we would just need to know the bolt diameter and the width of the shock hardware between the dogbone links. Looks like the very common 21.85.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-shapeshifter1.jpg  


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    Think we are going to try these out. I sent my son's Fox RP23 to get Pushed and they said they do not have any of their Low Friction Mounting kits for my son's Gary Fisher Superfly 100. I would have thought the 21.84mm kit would work but I guess not. I guess that makes sense because the RWC shock list says I need NBKRWC2185 plus 1 pcs Shim Kit SS8x17x0.5 (Shaft). I am thinking I will not need one for the front eyelet. I would think the majority of rotation is done at the swing link connection to the shaft eyelet.

  114. #114
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    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME

    A shout out for the customer service at RWC!

    The inner ring (pivot pin) on my roller bearing set up was a hair short for my frame. A bit of play was detectable, not in the bearing, but link-to-pin. Chris got the next size longer inner ring out to me -- it seemed like it was here before the email had time to send.

    A few strokes with a file to bring the over-length inner ring (pin) to a snug fit in my frame's link and I've got a slop-free system.

    (Tallboy LTc, the 21.85mm pin was a little loose. I filed the 22.20 down to 22.0 and it's a snug fit in the link)


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    --Reamer

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamer41 View Post

    (Tallboy LTc, the 21.85mm pin was a little loose. I filed the 22.20 down to 22.0 and it's a snug fit in the link)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Wow. That sounds a little scary trying to file down 0.2mm accurately.
    Glad it worked out for you.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashman View Post
    Wow. That sounds a little scary trying to file down 0.2mm accurately.
    Glad it worked out for you.
    I was worried I took too much off. I just touched it with a belt sander. Came out nearly perfect. Nice snug fit.
    --Reamer

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashman View Post
    Think we are going to try these out. I sent my son's Fox RP23 to get Pushed and they said they do not have any of their Low Friction Mounting kits for my son's Gary Fisher Superfly 100. I would have thought the 21.84mm kit would work but I guess not. I guess that makes sense because the RWC shock list says I need NBKRWC2185 plus 1 pcs Shim Kit SS8x17x0.5 (Shaft). I am thinking I will not need one for the front eyelet. I would think the majority of rotation is done at the swing link connection to the shaft eyelet.
    Correct on the kit plus shim. Also correct on just doing the swing link connection.

  118. #118
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    Canyon Strive CF 2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    This has come up in this thread previously. The Shapeshifter linkage is pretty complex and I have not had one apart. There may be small bearings pressed into the little "dogbone" links that actually contact the shock spacers. In other words, that top shock eyelet may already be riding on bearings. You would need to remove the shock bolt and slide the Shapeshifter yoke off. If you see bearings on either side of the shock, you are set. If not, we would just need to know the bolt diameter and the width of the shock hardware between the dogbone links. Looks like the very common 21.85.
    Hi Chris,
    Upper eye is M8/31,75 mm and shapeshifter yoke have no bearings.
    Bellow it is M8/22,2mm. Also some images for better illustration.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-imag0406%5B1%5D.jpg  

    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-shapeshifter-problem.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Correct on the kit plus shim. Also correct on just doing the swing link connection.
    Went to order the needle bearings but I could not order the Needle or Bushing tool as they are out of stock. Kind of can't do one without the other.

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by StriveCF View Post
    Hi Chris,
    Upper eye is M8/31,75 mm and shapeshifter yoke have no bearings.
    Bellow it is M8/22,2mm. Also some images for better illustration.
    Thanks for that. That is super helpful. It looks as if the needle bearing won't work, and here's why:

    The main pin that goes through the shock looks like it also goes all the way through the yoke, passing through the "top hat" bushings. The OD of that pin is going to be about 12.7mm. The needle bearings use a pin ("inner ring" in the case of a bearing) that has an OD of 11mm. So, if we provided a long enough inner ring to go through the shock and yoke, it would not fit the bushings in the yoke.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashman View Post
    Went to order the needle bearings but I could not order the Needle or Bushing tool as they are out of stock. Kind of can't do one without the other.
    The Needle Bearing Tools will be back in stock this afternoon. Checking on the Bushing Pilots.

  122. #122
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    Tool is back in stock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Correct on the kit plus shim. Also correct on just doing the swing link connection.
    Hi Chris,
    I just want to make sure I understand the terminology on the Shock Chart. Is the KIT BODY the front and the KIT SHAFT is the swing link rear of the bike? Or do I have that reversed?

    When I measured the space with my micrometer I got:
    Front width 25.27mm
    Rear (Swing Link) width 22.99mm

    Only reason I ask is because Push Industries refers to what I think is the shaft as the shock body.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squashman View Post
    Hi Chris,
    I just want to make sure I understand the terminology on the Shock Chart. Is the KIT BODY the front and the KIT SHAFT is the swing link rear of the bike? Or do I have that reversed?

    When I measured the space with my micrometer I got:
    Front width 25.27mm
    Rear (Swing Link) width 22.99mm

    Only reason I ask is because Push Industries refers to what I think is the shaft as the shock body.
    The nomenclature can get confusing. Shaft and body are pretty straight forward on a an air shock but sometimes confusing on a coil shock. Also, shocks can be reversed in many frames, so it's better to just refer to the frame features. So, on your frame, it's the swing link end we are concerned about. That has the shorter shock mounting span width and therefore requires the NBKRWC2185 kit plus one shim kit for 8mm bolt and you'll be good.

  125. #125
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    For my first full-squish build, I ordered a shock but the hardware is wrong, so I am considering going with two needle bearings from RWC. I just want to make sure I order the correct parts...

    The shock eye width is 12.67mm, and the frame mounts are 22.2 both top and bottom. I take it that I need two of the NBKRWC2220? Does RWC have an alternative to the lower bushing since there isn't as much movement at that point? Thanks for the help!

    Attachment 1066790

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul_chicken View Post
    For my first full-squish build, I ordered a shock but the hardware is wrong, so I am considering going with two needle bearings from RWC. I just want to make sure I order the correct parts...

    The shock eye width is 12.67mm, and the frame mounts are 22.2 both top and bottom. I take it that I need two of the NBKRWC2220? Does RWC have an alternative to the lower bushing since there isn't as much movement at that point? Thanks for the help!
    What frame do you have?

  127. #127
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    I can't give out much information the frame, but the pics should help.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-25790944393_d093a00174_b.jpg  

    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-26120864630_34176287ea_b.jpg  

    Last edited by s0ul_chicken; 04-28-2016 at 01:06 PM.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul_chicken View Post
    I can't give out much information the frame, but the pics should help.
    NBKRWC2220 for the top and I'd go with conventional (bushing and reducers) 22.20mm hardware at the bottom.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    NBKRWC2220 for the top and I'd go with conventional (bushing and reducers) 22.20mm hardware at the bottom.
    Thank you, sir!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Thanks for that. That is super helpful. It looks as if the needle bearing won't work, and here's why:

    The main pin that goes through the shock looks like it also goes all the way through the yoke, passing through the "top hat" bushings. The OD of that pin is going to be about 12.7mm. The needle bearings use a pin ("inner ring" in the case of a bearing) that has an OD of 11mm. So, if we provided a long enough inner ring to go through the shock and yoke, it would not fit the bushings in the yoke.
    Hi Chris.

    Is possible to do this 2 pcs in red with an OD of 11mm?


  131. #131
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    So is the HK 1210 is the replacement needle bearing for the kits?

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigrocks View Post
    So is the HK 1210 is the replacement needle bearing for the kits?
    No, it's a proprietary bearing. Spares are available here: +/- Tolerance Inner Rings for Shock Needle Bearing Kits

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    Hey Chris,

    I had the RWC bearing kit on my last bike and want to add it to my new bike. I have a 2016 Pivot Mach 429 Trail and Pivot lists the shock mounting spacing as 22.0mm. Should I buy the 21.85mm kit and two shims? Wouldn't that still put me .05mm too narrow?

    Thanks,

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paddock View Post
    I had the RWC bearing kit on my last bike and want to add it to my new bike. I have a 2016 Pivot Mach 429 Trail and Pivot lists the shock mounting spacing as 22.0mm. Should I buy the 21.85mm kit and two shims? Wouldn't that still put me .05mm too narrow?
    They are rounding off. The 21.85mm kit with no shims is a match for the Mach 429. Thanks!

  135. #135
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    Chris, are you making kits for Yeti's? I'd like to try one on my new SB5.5C (w/ Fox Float X).


    Thanks,
    Ron

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by rondre3000 View Post
    Chris, are you making kits for Yeti's? I'd like to try one on my new SB5.5C (w/ Fox Float X). Thanks, Ron
    Hi, Ron. Yes. For the back end of the shock you will need:

    1 pcs NBKRWC4374 (RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS, 6MM & 8MM)
    1 pcs Shim Kit SS8X15X0.5 (STAINLESS STEEL SHIMS FOR NEEDLE BEARING KIT NBKRWC40)

  137. #137
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    Thank you sir, just put in my order!

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by rondre3000 View Post
    Thank you sir, just put in my order!
    Thanks, Ron!

  139. #139
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    Just wanted to add my two cents - I put a couple of these kits on my Santa Cruz Tallboy's PUSHed Fox RP23 and Nomad 27.5's Vivid Air R2C and really like the results. I was very impressed with PUSH's new DU bushings for four or five months, then the shock started getting harsh again. A seal service didn't fix it, so I gave the needle bearings a try and so far it's another level better, if that's possible.

    RWC bearings + everything else from PUSH is magic!

    Put the same kit on my Nomad 27.5's Vivid and it's an even more dramatic result, probably since the eyelet sees so much more rotation. Added a *lot* of small bump sensitivity and made for way better damping adjustment.

    Between that and the NSD seal head fix for the Pike, I've dropped any crazy ideas about upgrading suspension for that bike. Thanks RWC!

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    Just wanted to add my two cents - I put a couple of these kits on my Santa Cruz Tallboy's PUSHed Fox RP23 and Nomad 27.5's Vivid Air R2C and really like the results. I was very impressed with PUSH's new DU bushings for four or five months, then the shock started getting harsh again. A seal service didn't fix it, so I gave the needle bearings a try and so far it's another level better, if that's possible.

    RWC bearings + everything else from PUSH is magic!

    Put the same kit on my Nomad 27.5's Vivid and it's an even more dramatic result, probably since the eyelet sees so much more rotation. Added a *lot* of small bump sensitivity and made for way better damping adjustment.

    Between that and the NSD seal head fix for the Pike, I've dropped any crazy ideas about upgrading suspension for that bike. Thanks RWC!
    Wow, thanks very much for the kind words. Really appreciate it!

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Correct on the kit plus shim. Also correct on just doing the swing link connection.
    Hi Chris.
    The kit is working great on my son's Gary Fisher Superfly 100.
    Thanks for a great product.

  142. #142
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    I just want to chime in here. I had one of the original RWC needle bearing kits on my 2008 Specialized Pitch Pro. It made a profound difference on that bike with regards to small bump sensitivity.

    Flash forward a number of years and now I own a 2015 Trance 275. I upgraded the shock on this bike and when I did I installed a RWC needle bearing kit. At the time I didn't notice all that much difference because of the shock switch at the same time.

    At any rate, I just sent that shock into avalanche for service and now I'm running my backup with the stock bushing. The amount of stiction that the suspension now has is noticeable. Once the linkage get's moving you don't notice it, but it's noticeable for the initial movement off of the sagged resting point.

    What I find really interesting is that the trance 275 utilizes bearing for the top pivot/eyelet for the shock. They are located in the rocker arm and then the shock utilizes a standard plastic bushing kit that you see on the majority of bikes. Even with that bearing in the rocker arm, this needle bearing kit is completely noticeable. Fun fact: with the top shock bolt torqued... the bolt spins freely in both the shock and the rocker, but there is zero play side to side.

    Nailed it RWC. Thanks again.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Thanks, Ron!
    Wow, brief driveway test after install and the difference was pretty apparent...on a brand new bike/shock!

    Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

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    Hi Chris,

    Will the 2016 Santacruz Nomad benefit from the Needle bearing upgrade? was thinking of getting one along with the rear shock upgrade to Fox X2 ? You mind giving the model as we only have limited parts in the Philippines, Which parts should I upgrade? Thanks!

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Kaiser View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Will the 2016 Santacruz Nomad benefit from the Needle bearing upgrade? was thinking of getting one along with the rear shock upgrade to Fox X2 ? You mind giving the model as we only have limited parts in the Philippines, Which parts should I upgrade? Thanks!
    Got it in my Nomad 27.5 now and love it. It uses the same 21.85mm kit as the other Santa Cruz bikes listed.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  146. #146
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    Hi TX,

    Should I change both or just the front part

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Kaiser View Post
    Hi TX,

    Should I change both or just the front part
    I changed both. I think if you were going to change one, the rear mount gets more rotation so that's where you should put it.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I changed both. I think if you were going to change one, the rear mount gets more rotation so that's where you should put it.
    Yes, this ^^ Thanks, TXNavy for helping Bryan. I was in the middle of nowhere last week and could not access any kind of communications.

  149. #149
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    All,
    A quick question.
    Got the rwc kit installed on a tallboy. The '+' shaft fits with the slightest knock when I lift the bike from the saddle. It is there but very slight.
    The '++' shaft fits tighter; not as smooth rolling as the '+', but eliminated the knock...
    So, go with the '+' or '++' shaft? Almost looks like I need a middle one '++-'

    Oren


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  150. #150
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    Hi Chris,

    Do you happen to know which kit works for a Banshee Phantom w/CC inline shock?

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrenPerets View Post
    All,
    A quick question.
    Got the rwc kit installed on a tallboy. The '+' shaft fits with the slightest knock when I lift the bike from the saddle. It is there but very slight.
    The '++' shaft fits tighter; not as smooth rolling as the '+', but eliminated the knock...
    So, go with the '+' or '++' shaft?
    Go with ++. The rule is to use the largest OD inner ring that will go into the needle bearing rollers and will not bind.

  152. #152
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    Installed on the Tallboy last night, easy peasy! First ride tonight...hopefully creak free and buttery smooth small bumps.

  153. #153
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    Replaced the top bushing in my Following with the RWC needle bearing. The initial backyard/neighborhood ride was very promising, but I waited until I got some trail rides in before posting. After two rides, I can say it is amazing the difference it makes, much plusher over roots and rocks.

  154. #154
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    Chris
    after installing on my tallboy, trying to convince a friend to do the same move with his (new) anthem.

    Giant anthem advanced 0 16' - which kit and where (upper / lower / both?)?

    Tx
    Oren

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrenPerets View Post
    Chris
    after installing on my tallboy, trying to convince a friend to do the same move with his (new) anthem. Giant anthem advanced 0 16' - which kit and where (upper / lower / both?)? Tx Oren
    Thanks, Oren. Some of the new Giants have bearings integrated into the upper rocker arms where the rockers attach to the shock. This is a great alternate way to accomplish what our needle bearing kits do. Have your friend remove the upper shock bolt. If he finds a cartridge bearing there, he's good to go. If not, he needs kit NBKRWC2185. The bottom is never changed because the Maestro suspension system uses a 15mm thru-pin at the bottom that also intersects the lower suspension rocker bearings.

  156. #156
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    Well the creak I had is gone, and I do feel a little more sensitivity to the small bumps. Only two rides on it, but so far so good!

  157. #157
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    Hi Chris, which kit would be needed for a 2015 Knolly Endorphin with a CCDB Inline? Also, if I were to put a Fox DPS would it be the same kit?

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherwin24 View Post
    Hi Chris, which kit would be needed for a 2015 Knolly Endorphin with a CCDB Inline? Also, if I were to put a Fox DPS would it be the same kit?
    The new Endorphins have 21.85mm shock mounting spans at both ends. I recommend just the rocker arm end (NBKRWC2185) unless there is a lot of pivoting going on at the lower mount.

  159. #159
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    Hi Chris,

    Do you happen to know which kit works for a TRANSITION PATROL w/RS VIVID COIL and RS Monarch ? which kit and where (upper / lower / both?)


    Saludos desde Chile!

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    Chris,

    I emailed you guys a few weeks ago but haven't gotten a response, I checked my Spam filter and didn't see anything so I resent the email.

    What do I need to convert my Diamondback Release 3?
    Diamondback Bikes - Mountain Bikes - Release 3

    ac

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Do you happen to know which kit works for a Banshee Phantom w/CC inline shock?
    Anyone know?

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Chris,

    I emailed you guys a few weeks ago but haven't gotten a response, I checked my Spam filter and didn't see anything so I resent the email.

    What do I need to convert my Diamondback Release 3?
    Diamondback Bikes - Mountain Bikes - Release 3

    ac
    Hi, AC: Sorry! Catching up after being out of town. Looks like NBKRWC2185 from the pics I've seen but have not verified the fit. That's also a size commonly used on other Diamondback bikes. If you remove the shock bolt at the swing link and drop the shock out, you can just measure the space inside the link.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Hi, AC: Sorry! Catching up after being out of town. Looks like NBKRWC2185 from the pics I've seen but have not verified the fit. That's also a size commonly used on other Diamondback bikes. If you remove the shock bolt at the swing link and drop the shock out, you can just measure the space inside the link.
    Ironically I realized it was that simple after posting. I'm on travel for work, but once I get back I'll pull the shock and take the measurement. I'll update this post so you and everyone else has the answer.

    ac

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler View Post
    Anyone know?
    Banshee Phantom: You need NBKRWC3988 for the rear of the shock. The front does not pivot much. If you decided the front bushing was wearing, that would take NBKRWC2540.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Ironically I realized it was that simple after posting. I'm on travel for work, but once I get back I'll pull the shock and take the measurement. I'll update this post so you and everyone else has the answer.

    ac
    Awesome!

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Awesome!
    Chris,

    How standard is this stuff? What are the tolerances?

    I pulled my lower shock bolt and measured. I think it's 22.20mm. The stock inner ring was ~22.19 on my caliper. The opening in the link was 22.20ish with the caliper (tough to get square consistently).

    It's definitely larger than 21.85mm that you said was common on other DB's.

    ac

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    Chris,

    How standard is this stuff? What are the tolerances?

    I pulled my lower shock bolt and measured. I think it's 22.20mm. The stock inner ring was ~22.19 on my caliper. The opening in the link was 22.20ish with the caliper (tough to get square consistently).

    It's definitely larger than 21.85mm that you said was common on other DB's.

    ac
    Tolerances always vary. I would take one of the inner rings and slide the bolt through the link (no shock, no needle bearing, ONLY the inner ring). Then, tighten the bolt. If the sides of the link squeeze down on the inner ring and lock it into place, then the 21.85 inner rings are good and you can complete the installation. BUT, if the sides of the link do NOT capture the inner ring when the bolt is torqued (i.e.: the inner ring can be spun around on the bolt), then we can get you some 22.20mm inner rings (every other part of the kit you have is the same for 22.20m kits).

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Tolerances always vary. I would take one of the inner rings and slide the bolt through the link (no shock, no needle bearing, ONLY the inner ring). Then, tighten the bolt. If the sides of the link squeeze down on the inner ring and lock it into place, then the 21.85 inner rings are good and you can complete the installation. BUT, if the sides of the link do NOT capture the inner ring when the bolt is torqued (i.e.: the inner ring can be spun around on the bolt), then we can get you some 22.20mm inner rings (every other part of the kit you have is the same for 22.20m kits).
    I figured this was the easiest way to confirm before ordering:



    That's the lower shock insert. Looks like 22.20mm spacing to me. Agreed?

    ac

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
    I figured this was the easiest way to confirm before ordering:



    That's the lower shock insert. Looks like 22.20mm spacing to me. Agreed?

    ac
    Absolutely, assuming the calipers are zeroed. In my defense, that is different than than the "about 2.19mm" previously stated...

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Absolutely, assuming the calipers are zeroed. In my defense, that is different than than the "about 2.19mm" previously stated...
    Order placed for 22.20mm kit with Red spacers. I'm pretty excited!

    ac

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    Hi Chris:

    Would a needle bearing kit help on an Ibis HD3 w/ Cane Creek inline. I've been getting a bit of a creak and it seems to be coming from the upper shock mount. I tried some triflow around the upper shock bushings/pivot and it quieted down the creak.

    Thinking about changing out the bushings, and maybe a needle bearing would be a good upgrade?

    Thanks

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markiel View Post
    Hi Chris:

    Would a needle bearing kit help on an Ibis HD3 w/ Cane Creek inline. I've been getting a bit of a creak and it seems to be coming from the upper shock mount. I tried some triflow around the upper shock bushings/pivot and it quieted down the creak.

    Thinking about changing out the bushings, and maybe a needle bearing would be a good upgrade?

    Thanks
    A needle bearing kit is only going to be useful where there is a fair amount of rotation taking place inside the shock eyelet. If you are not sure about this, you could let most of the air out of the shock and move the rear triangle through it's entire range of travel while watching the shock. If the shock pivots in relation to the top tube while going through its travel, it would be beneficial to change it. If not, there would be no point in going to a bearing.

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    hello chris, I would like to inquire which needle bearing would fit a 2014 GT Sensor Carbon that uses Fox CTD BV 7.25 x 1.75 shock.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnicky View Post
    hello chris, I would like to inquire which needle bearing would fit a 2014 GT Sensor Carbon that uses Fox CTD BV 7.25 x 1.75 shock.
    First of all, I would only change the back end of the shock. The front hardly moves, while the rear eyelet has LOTS of rotation taking place inside it. I'm not sure what the mounting span is inside the big link back there. Looks like it's going to take the 21.85mm kit or the 22.20mm kit, but you may need remove the shock and measure the gap. Please see the pic to know what I am referring to:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-gt_sensor.jpg  


  175. #175
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    the measurement on the caliper is 19mm. so I went ahead and bought the 1905.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnicky View Post
    the measurement on the caliper is 19mm. so I went ahead and bought the 1905.
    Perfect! Thanks.

  177. #177
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    In most cases, assuming no extra mud/dirty conditions, what's the lifespan on these bearings? Bought two kits a little over a month ago for a friend and I (me=niner WFO/ him=niner RIP).

    We are both already getting some clunking.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  178. #178
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    They should last longer than that, mine are holding up fine, 220lbs + plus gear, but I only have them for 2 month now but after the second ride I noticed clunking but that was the normal bushing at the front triangle on my Heckler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

  179. #179
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    Attachment 1094015Attachment 1094016
    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    In most cases, assuming no extra mud/dirty conditions, what's the lifespan on these bearings? Bought two kits a little over a month ago for a friend and I (me=niner WFO/ him=niner RIP).

    We are both already getting some clunking.
    That is not from wear. These don't wear like a bushing. You should get years of regular use out of a properly maintained kit (and they need very little maintenance in most conditions).

    To go from no play to clunking due to wear would mean that you would open up the bearing and find bits of metal inside. If you open it up, you'll find no worn parts and everything clean and intact. Most likely you have just had some time to displace the grease, which has increased the clearance between the inner ring and rollers. Hopefully you saved the other two inner rings that came with your kit. If the "+" OD inner ring was initially used, you can check the fit of the "++" to see if will go in now that the needle rollers are bedded in. You can also repack some grease into the bearing.

    It's also important to be sure that the inner ring is not moving around on the shock bolt.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-inner_ring_captured.jpg  


  180. #180
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    ....part 2 (since you have to have a degree in html coding to post stupid pictures in order on this site)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-inner_ring_captured2.jpg  


  181. #181
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    ...and part 3:

    The net effect is to have the rocker arms (or swing link, etc. as the case may be) become one unit so the bolt is not bearing the shear load.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-inner_ring_captured3.jpg  


  182. #182
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    ...and a bonus diagram just for fun:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-inner_ring_bearing_fit.jpg  


  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    ...and a bonus diagram just for fun:
    You are having way to much fun with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by acer66 View Post
    You are having way to much fun with this.
    Gotta admit that even on something "simple" like shock hardware, there's a lot going on beneath the surface.

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Gotta admit that even on something "simple" like shock hardware, there's a lot going on beneath the surface.
    Yes indeed and thank you for posting that, first time I heard the noise after installing the bearings I was, what is going on here?
    But as I said the reason was that the front bushing was worn out.

    If that happens again in the near future I might see if you have one for that,
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

  186. #186
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    just installed it today. Prior to putting in the bearing, the breakaway force of my rear shock is at 25 kg which is too much for a rider of my weight(60 kg). After putting it in, I measured it at 18-20 kg. that's roughly a 20-28% small bump sensitivity improvement out of the box. had to pump in more air though to correct the sag and added a bit of rebound damping. I reckon it can improve a lot more over time.

    if anyone wants to measure their bike's breakaway force refer to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I68FNkffbhI

  187. #187
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    Hi Chris,

    I have a Pivot 429 Trail (Large) with the Fox DPS - would you recommend either or both and which kit(s) if so?

    Thanks!

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by joby View Post
    Hi Chris,

    I have a Pivot 429 Trail (Large) with the Fox DPS - would you recommend either or both and which kit(s) if so?

    Thanks!
    If your link looks like the pic below, NBKRWC2185 is the kit for the swing link end. I suspect there is not much shock movement at the other end. If it turns out that the shock body pivots significantly at the top tube mount, you could get another kit for that end. You can just let the air out of the shock and cycle the rear triangle through its travel as you observe the front mount.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-mach429.jpg  


  189. #189
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    That's it! Going to order now, thanks!

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by joby View Post
    That's it! Going to order now, thanks!
    Thanks!

  191. #191
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    Question:

    On my XC bike, at my desired sag setting, I don't get full travel. Would installing one of these help me get more out of the shock at my preferred sag setting?

    (I know I should probably go for a bigger air can - but this could be a much cheaper option)
    Lapierre XR29ei, Chris King LB Carbon, XTR 1 X 10
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  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcbarny View Post
    Question:

    On my XC bike, at my desired sag setting, I don't get full travel. Would installing one of these help me get more out of the shock at my preferred sag setting?

    (I know I should probably go for a bigger air can - but this could be a much cheaper option)
    In most cases it helps throughout the stroke. However, it has the greatest impact on the beginning of the stroke, on small to mid-sized bumps. While you would get noticeable benefits from the needle bearing setup, the fact that you are not getting full travel is a separate issue, in my opinion.

  193. #193
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    Thanks Chris
    Lapierre XR29ei, Chris King LB Carbon, XTR 1 X 10
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    Kit available for a '15 RM Thunderbolt BC edition?

  195. #195
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    Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-img_3807.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    If your link looks like the pic below, NBKRWC2185 is the kit for the swing link end.
    Now it looks like this! Amazing upgrade and will recommend to everyone I ride with!!

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by joby View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3807.jpg 
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    Now it looks like this! Amazing upgrade and will recommend to everyone I ride with!!
    It looks like its smashed and cracked on both sides.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhale View Post
    Kit available for a '15 RM Thunderbolt BC edition?
    No, unfortunately. RM uses some special shock spacers. They match the shock pins, but our inner rings are a different OD. Please see the pic below.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Real World Cycling shock needle bearing kit IS AWESOME-rm_instinct_2013.jpg  


  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    It looks like its smashed and cracked on both sides.
    Click on the pic for a closer view. It's excess slick honey or something on top of the spacer.

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur View Post
    Click on the pic for a closer view. It's excess slick honey or something on top of the spacer.
    Yeah, you're right.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Yeah, you're right.
    Although it's still a bit of a problem as it will be huge dirt magnet. Joby, you should probably clean up the excess goo...

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