Push ACS-3 Coil Conversion kit- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Push ACS-3 Coil Conversion kit

    I have this in my PUSH-tuned 36. Best upgrade to my suspension since, well, since 11.6. Finally, a fork to match my shock. Great job PUSH !

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/push-a...irst-look.html
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 08-28-2017 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    Are you still on the Push company payroll?
    ****

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Are you still on the Push company payroll?
    Never have been, never will be

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    I just saw this today and emailed Suspension Werx in North Vancouver. I'm going to get one as soon as they're available! The website still says "coming soon"! My fork was push tuned last winter and it was a very big improvement. Looking forward to trying out the coil spring!

  5. #5
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    Looks great! Curious about how it stacks up against the new Ohlins coil 36.

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    I'm not sure that would be a good comparison - I am assuming the spring rate and dampener are designed in conjunction on the Ohlins where as this is just a modification to only the spring side.

  7. #7
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    I know people come at the Push thing with a money no object stance...but $400 for a coil spring conversion is quite expensive. I'm really hoping that this prompts companies like Fox and Rockshox to think about coil spring options for their forks. The Elevensix seemed to convince bigger players to offer coil springs aimed at non-downhill disciplines, at a much more reasonable cost than push (less than half the price).

  8. #8
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    1500+ for a 36 coil with custom tune! if you go all push that sets you up for a $2k7 which is the price of a pretty nice carbon frame + shock!

    definitely a premium market and customer focused product!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiebruster View Post
    I'm not sure that would be a good comparison - I am assuming the spring rate and dampener are designed in conjunction on the Ohlins where as this is just a modification to only the spring side.
    Yeah, I mean, you're probably right...but taking an (MRSP) $900-1000 shock and adding a $400 coil spring to it, I would hope that it was comparable. Otherwise I'd just be inclined to sell off the Pike/36/whatever and spend the money on the Ohlins.

  10. #10
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    for that price, I'll go for avalanche

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  11. #11
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    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?

  12. #12
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    Keep going Push, you are almost there for the 5000$ combo kit extravaganza.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?
    As good as you think the air spring is, the coil is that much better. And air performance will inevitably deteriorate with time. Their tune works complimentary to the coil spring, and the combo of spring and damper tune is the bees knees. The pink bike article says that it's not easy to revert back to air because of wear issues, but I doubt you'd want to.

  14. #14
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    Supposedly one already exists for the pike, £149.00

    Rock Shox Pike Coil Conversion Kit - Coil Conversion Kits - TF Tuned
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  15. #15
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    Weight?

    What's the addditional weight penalty of this conversion?

  16. #16
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    200-something grams.... Pretty decent for the benefits of coil sprung suspension.

    While I wish they didn't have to include that ramp up thing, I guess it's necessary since the RC2 damper (or charger) isn't an Avalanche cartridge with mid valves and hydraulic anti bottom out.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    200-something grams.... Pretty decent for the benefits of coil sprung suspension.

    While I wish they didn't have to include that ramp up thing, I guess it's necessary since the RC2 damper (or charger) isn't an Avalanche cartridge with mid valves and hydraulic anti bottom out.
    The fox carts have a hydraulic bottom-out system, however, very old 36s were not adjustable for this. There is some debate on Ridemonkey right now as to whether you really need the additional bottom-out protection over and above that already offered by the fox cartridge:

    Quote Originally Posted by Udi, post: 4215390, member: 11350
    I've already shared my thoughts on coil spring rates and bottom out resistance earlier in the thread. "Over-spring" could mean many things depending on which factors you considered when modeling an existing air sprung fork. I think you may be referring to the very old VAN36 there too, as the HBO was non-adjustable (from memory) on the inverted-RC2 equipped VAN36 (circa 2011-2013). The pre-invert dampers were heavily lacking in compression damping so it's not really a fair comparison.

    The answer to your question is somewhat travel-dependent. Personally I'd rather jump up to the 170mm 36 if running out of travel was an issue (= no weight penalty from memory) rather than lug around a sealed air spring unit inside my coil spring. But, full disclosure: I ride a DH bike for stuff that needs 203mm of travel - I run a coil converted new 40 (standard spring for my weight per Fox guidelines), which I've tested with the HBO damper and non-HBO damper. I prefer the non-HBO and very rarely bottom it out (usually only on a botched big landing).

    For people hitting bikeparks / big stuff on their 160mm fork a bottom out system may well be necessary (which is fair and probably describes an increasing number of users - so I don't disagree with you) but I would have solved the problem in a more cost- and weight-conscious way personally. The HBO damper added only ~15g.

    I think there would be a far bigger market for a lower priced system with a far more basic bottom out system if deemed necessary. I think two versions would net greater sales/profits and reach a bigger audience. If the ABS could be retrofitted it'd be even better, letting people decide (and spend the extra) if they need it for their riding application. Just an idea.
    If you really want to go coil, it may be possible to disable the pneumatic bottom-out? Would be nice like you say. There's the TFT kit for the pike that might work for the lyrik?

    I have to say that running my RFX with the avalanche fork and avalanched RC4 feels extremely balanced. I know with a coil front it'd have even "moar" front traction, but damn if it doesn't already feel like a million bucks and doesn't leave me wanting more on DH. At the rear end of the bike there's still a significant difference between my tuned Monarch+ and the coil RC4, but I don't think quite so much on the front end, although again, I'm sure coil would be better. I've had some shitty coil forks though that my current lyrik+avy just blows away, every one of them in fact, except the avy-cart I had in the 888.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #18
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    Push ASC-3 Coil Conversion kit

    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?
    By definition, if your air spring is perfect, the coil can't be any better (perfecter). It can only be just as good (or also perfect).
    That said, spend your hard earned money elsewhere


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbbking View Post
    for that price, I'll go for avalanche

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    Avalanche doesn't offer a coil conversion. If they did, I'd have one in my 36 along with the AVA cartridge thats already in there.

  20. #20
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    If you really want to go coil, it may be possible to disable the pneumatic bottom-out? Would be nice like you say.
    I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary? It by far was the most expensive and time consuming pat of the development process!

    When was the last time you saw a thread talking about increasing the air volume of an air fork to make to more linear? There's a reason riders are using tokens with air springs.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    Avalanche doesn't offer a coil conversion. If they did, I'd have one in my 36 along with the AVA cartridge thats already in there.
    You are correct. They offer an open bath conversion kit. It is really good and is a huge upgrade to the fork, especially if you are outside the ideal weight range for the stock set up. It's about the same price as the push kit.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary? It by far was the most expensive and time consuming pat of the development process!

    When was the last time you saw a thread talking about increasing the air volume of an air fork to make to more linear? There's a reason riders are using tokens with air springs.

    Darren
    If a pneumatic bump stop is necessary, when can we expect to see one replace the static bump stop on the 11.6, which, following the same rationale, is insufficient? I get that leverage ratios impact this, but you could add even more tuneability.

    If your interst is adding non linearity back in to a linear system, why not just spec variable rate coils? You may loose a bit of tuneability of your variable pressure bump stop, but you'ld decrease cost, complexity, and weight.

    At any rate, we appreciate options and progression. Develop on!
    Last edited by tdc_worm; 07-19-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  23. #23
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    If a pneumatic bump stop is necessary, when can we expect to see one replace the static bump stop on the 11.6, which, following the same rationale, is insufficient? I get that leverage ratios impact this, but you could add even more tuneability.
    You touched on it....the biggest factor being motion rate, and more importantly the percentage of rise in rate accomplished by the linkage. Whether mechanical(cellular bump stop), or pneumatic(air pressure) we're getting the same result. The ABS just offers the rider the ability to easily adjust it.

    If your interst is adding non linearity back in to a linear system, why not just spec variable rate coils? You may loose a bit of tuneability of your variable pressure bump stop, but you'ld decrease cost, complexity, and weight.
    We tried progressively wound springs, which are much heavier, but ultimately decided on the ABS due to both weight and user tuneability.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    You touched on it....the biggest factor being motion rate, and more importantly the percentage of rise in rate accomplished by the linkage. Whether mechanical(cellular bump stop), or pneumatic(air pressure) we're getting the same result. The ABS just offers the rider the ability to easily adjust it.

    We tried progressively wound springs, which are much heavier, but ultimately decided on the ABS due to both weight and user tuneability.

    Darren
    Cool. We are sure you have done your homework, just trying to gain a better understanding. My initial thought is why not just use an anti-bottoming solution on the damper side. We see that in other cartridge options in both MX and MTB, while not seeing the implementation of pneumatic bump stops. Of course, this involves getting in to both sides of the fork.

    To that end, does your valving approach change for the spring conversion? I suspect so...and I am guessing that a revalve would be more critical after the conversion?

  25. #25
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    Sooo, we are taking a $1000 fork and adding a $400 aftermarket coil to essentially get a 6 year old $900 Fox Van. Right.

    The bike industry is so screwed up.

  26. #26
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    this conversion kit is only for the air leg of the fork and still depends on the rebound and compression settings of the damper cartridge. If a rider is outside the optimal weight range for the fork is this kit really going to make that big of a difference? In other words, are issues of easily bottoming out and lack of mid stroke support dealt with without the need of a custom tune at an additional charge.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    this conversion kit is only for the air leg of the fork and still depends on the rebound and compression settings of the damper cartridge. If a rider is outside the optimal weight range for the fork is this kit really going to make that big of a difference? In other words, are issues of easily bottoming out and lack of mid stroke support dealt with without the need of a custom tune at an additional charge.
    That's a bit more direct way to get at the questions I was asking above. I suspect that valving for an air spring differs from valving for a coil spring to take advantage of each springs characteristics. Valving also is dependent on rider weight....Push uses different shim stacks for the 11.6 based off of rider weight.

    In the case of an OEM fork cartridge, they are valved to work with the broadest range of customers, making performance "acceptable" out of the box. If the fork cartridges were more specific for weight or spring characteristics then less users would find them acceptable and they would get negative reviews. Same with spring weights, which is why an air spring makes sense for the masses.

    With that in mind, it seems that just moving to a spring could cause issues on the damper side. If the damper is already not optimized for rider weight, and you complicate that by altering the spring characteristics, then a revalve would be in order. In MX, when you send your OEM suspenders off to get worked on, in most cases, both the springs and valving are changed. I'm okay with that. But, since (or more appropriately "if") that is the case, then a hydraulic bottom out solution on the damper side seems way more reasonable from a cost, weight, and complexity position, BECAUSE you will need to go in to the damper side anyways. Even without that, it turns the prospect of a $400 spring change in to a $650 venture when you include Push's revalve and service.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Even without that, it turns the prospect of a $400 spring change in to a $650 venture when you include Push's revalve and service.....
    That and they don't off the revalve service for Pikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    Sooo, we are taking a $1000 fork and adding a $400 aftermarket coil to essentially get a 6 year old $900 Fox Van. Right.

    The bike industry is so screwed up.
    Nope. The people are screwed up, not the industry. They are giving the people what they want and will buy. The people buying the $1000 fork and feeling disappointed and buying a $400 spring. We are all sheep.

    Anybody else remember when we complained about the $50 spring for the Judy? Seems like such a long time ago...
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    Sounds somewhat similar to what DVO did with the diamond. The OTT is an adjustable coil spring in the air side. OTT gives you the supple initial travel and support while the air keeps it from bottoming out.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nope. The people are screwed up, not the industry. They are giving the people what they want and will buy. The people buying the $1000 fork and feeling disappointed and buying a $400 spring.
    The industry as in "manufacturers and consumers" are screwed up. Happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nope. We are all sheep.
    Speak for yourself.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?
    No going back. To use an air spring the inside of the stanchion needs to be flawless. If you have a coil spring smacking around in there chances are no matter how much you grease the spring it will take it's toll on the inside of the stanchion.
    Sweet Jesus don't let the judge release me, what if she's a Zombie or a Dracula and tries to f&*king eat me.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by txnavy View Post
    also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. Can you go back to air?
    neever go back to air spring, t'is garbage after one good ride!!!!
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    neever go back to air spring, t'is garbage after one good ride!!!!
    exactly. there's zero reason to go back

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUP-TON View Post
    No going back. To use an air spring the inside of the stanchion needs to be flawless. If you have a coil spring smacking around in there chances are no matter how much you grease the spring it will take it's toll on the inside of the stanchion.
    I understand the problem, I just wondered if there was a plastic sleeve or something to prevent it as that's what I would do. Guess not...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I understand the problem, I just wondered if there was a plastic sleeve or something to prevent it as that's what I would do. Guess not...

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    There is a way but only using RS parts and it's not guaranteed.
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  37. #37
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    I would be interested in the push conversion kit. Unfortunatelly, it is not available for 180mm travel. Does anybody know if there is any alternative available from another manufacturer? I'm looking to get a more plush feeling out of my fox 36...

  38. #38
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    So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.

    Erik

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.

    Erik
    I think it will come at some point, 2019 lineup maybe, ohlins already has a 36 coil 29er, so others are looking for sure!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.

    Erik
    I hope so. I also hope Push comes up with a kit for the Lyrik/Yari

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    I hope so. I also hope Push comes up with a kit for the Lyrik/Yari
    Agreed - discounted Yari + Push coil - cost of factory Fox 36 before the Push kit... that would interest me now

  42. #42
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    Unfortunately, we will not be offering the kit for the Yari/Lyrik due to the stanchion tube having a smaller inside diameter.

    Darren

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    Defiantly unfortunate. Thanks for the clarification.

    Fingers crossed that Super Alloy Racing pulls their finger out and makes their kit available.

    SAR PSP Spring Tuning Kit for BoXXer, Lyrik, Pike and FOX 36 - EUROBIKE - 2017 Mountain Bike Components - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB

  44. #44
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    Darren,
    Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren,
    Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?
    ^^^^^this. Although it appears that the new top cap/bump stop so serves as the upper spring seat. Pretty sure we know what the answer is going to be here.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren,
    Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?
    This seems to be a common misconception that I read a lot on the internet. Springs and dampers have different roles and one can't compensate for the other.

    Springs generate load based on position and therefore control ride height and bottoming.

    Dampers generate force based on velocity and therefore control the suspensions ride characteristic.

    Hydraulic bottoming devices are designed to provide a level of protection once you've already arrived at the end of travel, but don't help you from getting there.

    Off-road MTB suspension requires a progressive spring in order to provide a balanced ride of small bump sensitivity and big hit control. Applications that don't provide this are a compromise.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    This seems to be a common misconception that I read a lot on the internet. Springs and dampers have different roles and one can't compensate for the other.

    Springs generate load based on position and therefore control ride height and bottoming.

    Dampers generate force based on velocity and therefore control the suspensions ride characteristic.

    Hydraulic bottoming devices are designed to provide a level of protection once you've already arrived at the end of travel, but don't help you from getting there.

    Off-road MTB suspension requires a progressive spring in order to provide a balanced ride of small bump sensitivity and big hit control. Applications that don't provide this are a compromise.

    Darren
    Kayaba, Showa, WP and Ohlins will be glad to hear this. If there is one thing that has been missing from the motocross world it is suspension that can allow riders to blast braking bumps and be able land smoothly on 120 ft table tops. Probably explains why they dont reach the speeds that Enduro does...they just can't find the control. If they only had the money and the minds to solve the problem.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Kayaba, Showa, WP and Ohlins will be glad to hear this. If there is one thing that has been missing from the motocross world it is suspension that can allow riders to blast braking bumps and be able land smoothly on 120 ft table tops. Probably explains why they dont reach the speeds that Enduro does...they just can't find the control. If they only had the money and the minds to solve the problem.
    I'm not sure why the sarcasm when you're actually confirming what I'm saying?

    Prior to starting PUSH I had a successful career in Motorsports and am overly familiar with the companies that you listed. I'm also an avid moto rider and still provide support for professional teams such as Factory Honda's road racing effort in my spare time as it's a passion of mine.

    To my point, not one of the brands you listed even offer a suspension fork that has a linear spring. 100% of off-road motorcycle suspension forks that utilize a coil spring, use a secondary air spring to create a progressive spring rate. Every KYB, every Showa, every WP, and every Ohlins.

    Darren

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I'm not sure why the sarcasm when you're actually confirming what I'm saying?

    Prior to starting PUSH I had a successful career in Motorsports and am overly familiar with the companies that you listed. I'm also an avid moto rider and still provide support for professional teams such as Factory Honda's road racing effort in my spare time as it's a passion of mine.

    To my point, not one of the brands you listed even offer a suspension fork that has a linear spring. 100% of off-road motorcycle suspension forks that utilize a coil spring, use a secondary air spring to create a progressive spring rate. Every KYB, every Showa, every WP, and every Ohlins.

    Darren
    Agreed, and not questioning your credentials. Also not passing judgment on the performance of the system.

    The oil height can be adjusted to alter the feel of the mx fork as it changes air volume, changing the progressitivity of the fork. It's what we do in mtb w tokens and spacers. Doesn't change the fact that their bottom out control is handled on the damper side.

    Probably semantics, but I am not 100% convinced that dampers generate force, or anything else for that matter. I am guessing the compression circuit diffuses the energy delivered to the system by the rider while the rebound circuit diffuses the stored energy delivered by the spring; air, coil or otherwise.

    At any rate, I expect your system to perform, but I also believe the hump stop is a band aid for a damper, that in its stock form, isn't equipped to tolerate the the linear nature of the coil. To your point, the spring and the valving have different jobs. What they do not do, is work independently of one another.

  50. #50
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    The oil height can be adjusted to alter the feel of the mx fork as it changes air volume, changing the progressitivity of the fork. It's what we do in mtb w tokens and spacers. Doesn't change the fact that their bottom out control is handled on the damper side.
    No, the oil volume adjustment in the fork is specifically used to alter the spring rate. There is no control on the damper side to only effect bottoming.

    Probably semantics, but I am not 100% convinced that dampers generate force, or anything else for that matter. I am guessing the compression circuit diffuses the energy delivered to the system by the rider while the rebound circuit diffuses the stored energy delivered by the spring; air, coil or otherwise.
    It's not a convincing thing it's just fact. The only way to measure the performance of a damper is by measuring the force that it generates at a specific velocity.

    At any rate, I expect your system to perform, but I also believe the hump stop is a band aid for a damper, that in its stock form, isn't equipped to tolerate the the linear nature of the coil. To your point, the spring and the valving have different jobs. What they do not do, is work independently of one another.
    Again, it's not a band-aid. There is nothing you can do to the damper to making it progressive. If you change the compression to decrease the acceleration of the fork or shock, you will also reduce it's ability to move at that velocity even if just a small impact. If this was possible moto forks would be made pounds lighter and use the fluid for lubrication only and not for the air spring characteristic.

    Darren

  51. #51
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    I'm taking this as a " No."

  52. #52
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    Darren,
    Another question: The video states the air device has an effect only on the last third of travel. Does this mean that the abs piston is static ( thus not introducing friction ((elimination of which is one of my primary motives for this coil conversion project)) until the final third of travel ?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Unfortunately, we will not be offering the kit for the Yari/Lyrik due to the stanchion tube having a smaller inside diameter.

    Darren
    Darren, where is your bussiness going? I e-mailed Push a couple weeks ago about having a service done, and Ryan's reply was that the company is moving away from the service part of the bussiness, to focus on manufacturing. So you make the 11-6, and now this product for the 36; what els are you going to maufacture to pay those monthly installments on those CNC,s?
    ****

  54. #54
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    Another question: The video states the air device has an effect only on the last third of travel. Does this mean that the abs piston is static ( thus not introducing friction ((elimination of which is one of my primary motives for this coil conversion project)) until the final third of travel ?
    That is correct. Friction is certainly a component, but more for us was eliminating the compressed airs influence in the initial part of the stroke. Having as a separate unit gives us much better performance and tuneability.

    Darren, where is your bussiness going? I e-mailed Push a couple weeks ago about having a service done, and Ryan's reply was that the company is moving away from the service part of the bussiness, to focus on manufacturing. So you make the 11-6, and now this product for the 36; what els are you going to maufacture to pay those monthly installments on those CNC,s?
    Not so much moving away as shifting the focus. Service, Tuning, and Re-Configuring ELEVENSIX shocks is now a significant portion of our Technical Service Department. As is the installation of ACS3 kits into customer forks as well as the purchase of new 36 forks built to spec with our ACS3 kit. So we're still performing the same amount of work, just on more of our own product. Additionally, the major manufacturers have changed the way they do business which has changed the way that we can support their products with aftermarket service and tuning. We saw this writing on the wall early on and made adjustments. It's been quite a while since you visited and I know you'd be pretty stoked to see what our manufacturing department has turned into! Just installed another new Citizen swiss last week!

    Darren

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    Any idea when the ACS3 kit will be available for the Fox fork in sizes in addition to the 160 mm fork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Not so much moving away as shifting the focus. Service, Tuning, and Re-Configuring ELEVENSIX shocks is now a significant portion of our Technical Service Department. As is the installation of ACS3 kits into customer forks as well as the purchase of new 36 forks built to spec with our ACS3 kit. So we're still performing the same amount of work, just on more of our own product.
    Does this mean you are phasing out or no longer doing the tuning and service work? If so, is there a date you plan on no longer offering it?

    I was hoping to get the used 36 I bought over to you guys but was going to wait until I needed a rebuild, if this is the plan then I might do it sooner. I know others (Fox, etc) are offering similar services, but I don't think they do it to the level of detail or in a way that is as consumer friendly as you guys.

  57. #57
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    Any idea when the ACS3 kit will be available for the Fox fork in sizes in addition to the 160 mm fork?
    MAybe as early as today, but definitely this week.

    Does this mean you are phasing out or no longer doing the tuning and service work? If so, is there a date you plan on no longer offering it?

    I was hoping to get the used 36 I bought over to you guys but was going to wait until I needed a rebuild, if this is the plan then I might do it sooner. I know others (Fox, etc) are offering similar services, but I don't think they do it to the level of detail or in a way that is as consumer friendly as you guys.
    There isn't really a date as we're just phasing out any new development, as well as offerings on products that the original manufacturer no longer supports.

    Darren

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    There isn't really a date as we're just phasing out any new development, as well as offerings on products that the original manufacturer no longer supports.
    Darren
    So does Fox no longer support their coil shocks?
    I asked Ryan if you guys could build me an MX-tune, in and 8.5 by 2.5. I told him I would donate my MX-tuned 7.5 by 2.0 for all the parts you most likely did not have; the Bridge, the hi/lo valve, piston etc. I asked him to run it by you as well.....did he?
    ****

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    So does Fox no longer support their coil shocks?
    I asked Ryan if you guys could build me an MX-tune, in and 8.5 by 2.5. I told him I would donate my MX-tuned 7.5 by 2.0 for all the parts you most likely did not have; the Bridge, the hi/lo valve, piston etc. I asked him to run it by you as well.....did he?
    Parts supply on pre-2016 shocks is often questionable. Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

    Darren

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    Apologies on allowing the tone to be adversarial...it was unnecessary. For the record, I own three 11.6 shocks. The perform as advertised and were well worth the money. I expect that the ACS3 system will also, exceed expectations, and I hope Push sells a bazillion of them...a couple of which may still find there way to me. I am down to learn and happy to eat my humble pie...

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    No, the oil volume adjustment in the fork is specifically used to alter the spring rate. There is no control on the damper side to only effect bottoming.
    We are in violent agreement that even in a coil spring system, there is a volume of air which is compressed as the fork compresses, making the system progressive. That volume of air, in MX coil forks, can be adjusted by adding or removing oil. In air spring MTB forks, that volume of air can be altered by adding or removing tokens. Both use different mechanisms to accomplish the same thing: change volume to impact progressiveness. From the mtb perspective, Avalanche has a specific oil height they like to use on the damper side....I am guessing to further impact the progressivity of the system.

    As for bottom out control on the damper side help me understand this, which I have on my Avalanche cartridge Fox 36:

    Anti-Bottoming System Varaitions

    On my Ohlins RXF 48 forks on my KTM, I have these:

    MX-Tech Works - Huck Valve - MX-Tech

    Both items seem to be anti bottoming solutions that use hydraulic lockouts independent of the spring, and I for the life of me I cannot get either of them to violently bottom out.


    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    It's not a convincing thing it's just fact. The only way to measure the performance of a damper is by measuring the force that it generates at a specific velocity.
    Insert first serving of humble pie. Sir Isaac Newton and his third Law Should be insulted by my lack of knowledge retention. I was looking at it from the perspective that the damper doesn't generate the force....that the input from the rider and the ground generated the force, to which the damper applies resistance. Alas, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and I concede, its not semantics, resistance is a force.

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Again, it's not a band-aid. There is nothing you can do to the damper to making it progressive. If you change the compression to decrease the acceleration of the fork or shock, you will also reduce it's ability to move at that velocity even if just a small impact. If this was possible moto forks would be made pounds lighter and use the fluid for lubrication only and not for the air spring characteristic.

    Darren
    Can you help us understand the difference between speed sensitive and position sensitive valving as well as what what the purpose of multi stage shim stacks is? From what I remember from reading The Suspension Bible (forgive me its been more than 5 years ago), you can stiffen valving while still having it remain compliant (i.e first stage is compliant, and once that stage is overwhelmed in the face of increased oil velocity, the next stage(s) are significantly stiffer).

    Perhaps my struggle is this: Typically the first thing you should do to an MX bike is send the suspension in to have it resprung and revalved for your weight and riding style and ability. I cannot ever remember getting the advice that stock valving is suitable for all riders, so only a re-spring is necessary. In the instance of a Fox 36 fork, that would require your Factory Tune in addition to the ACS3 kit. Labeling it as an "Air Bump Stop" likely muddied the waters enough to make me think it was taking care of something that the STOCK valving couldn't handle on its own in the presence of a linear spring, which it was not originally configured to work with. Returning it a progressive system, to some degree, removes the need to get into the damper.

    At any rate, I am sure it performs, your team wouldn't be around if you failed to deliver. Apologies for ruffling feathers.

  61. #61
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    Guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn View Post
    guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.
    plus one!!!

  63. #63
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    Darren,
    When will the Pike kits be available (130mm specifically)?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn View Post
    Guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.
    Ground traction is unreal. super smooth throughout the entire stoke. Despite some nasty hits, I've yet to find bottom per the o-ring, yet I never feel like I'm short on travel - it's there if I need it. Damping controls are superb as well, but I have the Push tune, not the stock Fox.

    One of my friends, who is a very skilled rider, is a doubting Thomas type. He tried my bike once, walked into PUSH (local for is) the next day and bought a new fully equipped 36. His comment: "this is next level stuff". Two other of my friends are queuing up to make the switch as well.

    I have a hard time believing that anyone would go back to stock air after trying this system

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Parts supply on pre-2016 shocks is often questionable. Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

    Darren
    Is parts supply questionable for the RP23's that you still service?
    ****

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Is parts supply questionable for the RP23's that you still service?
    Parts for RP2/3/23 are more than questionable, they're extinct except for a few pieces in stock. I'll have to check, but it was my understanding that those have already been pulled.

    Darren

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren,
    When will the Pike kits be available (130mm specifically)?
    We don't have dates yet. Also, 130mm is not confirmed. 140-160 for sure though.

    Darren

  68. #68
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    Apologies on allowing the tone to be adversarial...it was unnecessary. For the record, I own three 11.6 shocks. The perform as advertised and were well worth the money. I expect that the ACS3 system will also, exceed expectations, and I hope Push sells a bazillion of them...a couple of which may still find there way to me. I am down to learn and happy to eat my humble pie...
    I didn't take it as adversarial...my apologies if I came off that way. Tone seems to always be lost on message boards unfortunately.

    We are in violent agreement that even in a coil spring system, there is a volume of air which is compressed as the fork compresses, making the system progressive. That volume of air, in MX coil forks, can be adjusted by adding or removing oil. In air spring MTB forks, that volume of air can be altered by adding or removing tokens. Both use different mechanisms to accomplish the same thing: change volume to impact progressiveness. From the mtb perspective, Avalanche has a specific oil height they like to use on the damper side....I am guessing to further impact the progressivity of the system.

    As for bottom out control on the damper side help me understand this, which I have on my Avalanche cartridge Fox 36:

    Anti-Bottoming System Varaitions

    On my Ohlins RXF 48 forks on my KTM, I have these:

    MX-Tech Works - Huck Valve - MX-Tech

    Both items seem to be anti bottoming solutions that use hydraulic lockouts independent of the spring, and I for the life of me I cannot get either of them to violently bottom out.
    Jeremy Wilkey is a smart dude that I have a lot of respect for. Both his Huck Valve(very advanced shimmed system) and the Avy system(basic cup/cone) control having a violent end stroke once you've already got there. These systems are used in addition to a progressive spring mechanism and velocity sensitive damper.

    While you can use our ABS for just bottoming control, it's designed to work with the coil spring over the entire stroke of the fork. Better yet, it's simply externally adjustable allowing you the rider to define it's purpose trail side! ]

    Can you help us understand the difference between speed sensitive and position sensitive valving as well as what what the purpose of multi stage shim stacks is? From what I remember from reading The Suspension Bible (forgive me its been more than 5 years ago), you can stiffen valving while still having it remain compliant (i.e first stage is compliant, and once that stage is overwhelmed in the face of increased oil velocity, the next stage(s) are significantly stiffer).
    First off, all suspension forks and shocks are "Speed Sensitive"....even if it is also position sensitive. It doesn't matter if it is a port orifice system with a single hole, or an advanced multi-stage piston/multi-stage valving arrangement.....compression and rebound damping are measured by how much force is being generated at a given velocity. The idea of "upgrading" or "converting to "Speed Sensitive" is bogus.

    As for position sensitive, there are many forms of this but the basis is on changing the damping force range based on where the suspension is in the stroke. This is commonly done with bypass systems that allow some of the oil to pass freely in the first part of the stroke, and then removing that bypass later on in the shocks travel. Here's a good link showing a FOX system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBjZu3TfjF8

    Lastly is multi-stage valving. This is a method of allowing you to run higher damping force for aggressive riding as your base setting, while still trying to give the rider a bit of comfort at lower suspension velocities. It's quite simple really. There's a lot of misinformation that using multi stacks are a way of creating all of this wizardry and multiple suspension characteristics for varied terrain, but it's really not that complex.

    Perhaps my struggle is this: Typically the first thing you should do to an MX bike is send the suspension in to have it resprung and revalved for your weight and riding style and ability. I cannot ever remember getting the advice that stock valving is suitable for all riders, so only a re-spring is necessary. In the instance of a Fox 36 fork, that would require your Factory Tune in addition to the ACS3 kit. Labeling it as an "Air Bump Stop" likely muddied the waters enough to make me think it was taking care of something that the STOCK valving couldn't handle on its own in the presence of a linear spring, which it was not originally configured to work with. Returning it a progressive system, to some degree, removes the need to get into the damper.
    I would never recommend sending your suspension off to a tuner before riding it and thoroughly exploring the base settings unless you're wildly off the scale of the stock suspension in weight or ability, or have had a similar vehicle already tuned by someone you have a relationship with. The stock suspension with a little time will fit a large portion of the rider base. Or ACS3 kit was designed specifically to work with the stock fork chassis and damper settings. For the minority of riders that fall outside the range of the stock settings than we certainly offer tuning for that!

    Darren

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Parts for RP2/3/23 are more than questionable, they're extinct except for a few pieces in stock. I'll have to check, but it was my understanding that those have already been pulled.

    Darren
    Your website still lists the RP23 as a shock you provide service for, hence my question.
    ****

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    man im also curious to hear the reviews. my ocd is going to kill me if i have a coil fork and an air float x rear shock lol.

    i have a creaky csu on my fox36, which i need to send back to fox for warranty, then hopefully i'll have some money to get the acs3
    2020 yeti sb165 t2

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

    Darren
    A failing memory can certainly be a convenient thing sometimes. Like right now.
    ****

  72. #72
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    Fantastic detailed write up thanks Darren.

    I was wondering if the ASC-3 will fit a 2014 36 160mm TALAS, I know you don't support it but what's stopping me from replacing the TALAS 5 spring assembly with the ASC-3? Is the TALAS 5 assembly physically different between the 2014 and 2015 forks?

    Regards,

    Mark


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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    A failing memory can certainly be a convenient thing sometimes. Like right now.
    I haven't been involved in our Technical Service department in over two years. The people involved with making these decisions brought up your case as a weekly meeting per your request. I simply supported their decision as they are the most informed with what we can, and cannot do.

    Fantastic detailed write up thanks Darren.

    I was wondering if the ASC-3 will fit a 2014 36 160mm TALAS, I know you don't support it but what's stopping me from replacing the TALAS 5 spring assembly with the ASC-3? Is the TALAS 5 assembly physically different between the 2014 and 2015 forks?
    To be honest, we don't actually know if it could be retrofitted back that far. We don't have a pre-2105 fork anywhere in house unfortunately.

    Darren

  74. #74
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    Push ASC-3 Coil Conversion kit

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    To be honest, we don't actually know if it could be retrofitted back that far. We don't have a pre-2105 fork anywhere in house unfortunately.

    Darren


    Thanks Darren,

    I think I may try this out, if it doesn't work then I'll either keep it for when I replace my forks or sell it on.


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    Does anyone know how much weight this will will add to the fork? I am considering converting my 2018 Float RC2 170mm. What is the weight hit?

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    The weight won't be a factor once you ride it, but here are the numbers:

    ACS-3 will add 210-285 grams to a Fox 36 Float, or between 65-150 grams to a 36 TALAS.

    Darren

  77. #77
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    My 2018 160mm 29 boost weighed 5.2 lbs with a green spring but it doesn't matter. One ride and you'll realize it's about the best purchase ever. I've owned or ridden almost everything out there and this is the best riding fork I've ever owned. Better than the BOS on my dh, better than the ohlins it replaced. I'm questioning if I even need a dh bike after 2 days at the bike park on this. Had personal records on full blown dh trails. Unreal. Well done Darren. If you only were doing an 11-6 for the new slash...

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    Now that Fox released a 36 29er in 170mm, will the ACS-3 170mm kit work in this particular 29er chassis?

    How does one go about changing the travel once you are using this kit? Do you have to buy a complete new kit at the desire travel?

    Thanks!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary?
    How did every RC2 damper fox coil fork get away with it? I've ridden one with a non HBO damper and it works fine.

    I've got a current gen talas that has almost no air spring ramp and the HS compression adjuster keeps it from bottoming pretty well.

    Were you guys getting hard bottom outs with the current RC2 carts when you just tried a coil only? Judging by how often I have to burp my lowers on all 3 of my fox forks, I think I already have two air springs in the lowers.

    I remember the first 6 years of fox vanilla (and then 40) forks and the HS damping capabilities of those things were non-existent. Everyone ended up having to run an oversprung fork, myself included. That seemed to go away with the current damper cartridges that actually worked though.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  80. #80
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    My 2018 160mm 29 boost weighed 5.2 lbs with a green spring but it doesn't matter. One ride and you'll realize it's about the best purchase ever. I've owned or ridden almost everything out there and this is the best riding fork I've ever owned. Better than the BOS on my dh, better than the ohlins it replaced. I'm questioning if I even need a dh bike after 2 days at the bike park on this. Had personal records on full blown dh trails. Unreal. Well done Darren. If you only were doing an 11-6 for the new slash...
    Thanks for your business!

    Now that Fox released a 36 29er in 170mm, will the ACS-3 170mm kit work in this particular 29er chassis?

    How does one go about changing the travel once you are using this kit? Do you have to buy a complete new kit at the desire travel?
    We're working on confirming the 170 29 fork and should have info shortly.

    To change travel it requires a new kit. Modern FOX/RS forks are no longer able to change travel by swapping spacers unfortunately.

    How did every RC2 damper fox coil fork get away with it? I've ridden one with a non HBO damper and it works fine.
    The majority of riders found themselves over-springing the fork and running damping settings that compromised the overall performance.

    I've got a current gen talas that has almost no air spring ramp and the HS compression adjuster keeps it from bottoming pretty well.
    Unless you modified the air spring, it's actually quite progressive.

    Were you guys getting hard bottom outs with the current RC2 carts when you just tried a coil only? Judging by how often I have to burp my lowers on all 3 of my fox forks, I think I already have two air springs in the lowers.
    Yes. With just a coil spring the fork is too linear to have both good bump sensitivity and big hit control. Additionally, you won't find a single user of our ACS3 kit that isn't running pressure in their ABS unit.

    I remember the first 6 years of fox vanilla (and then 40) forks and the HS damping capabilities of those things were non-existent. Everyone ended up having to run an oversprung fork, myself included. That seemed to go away with the current damper cartridges that actually worked though.
    Using this logic you're saying that frame manufacturers could simplify their frame designs once the rear shock technology improves? You make it sound like with proper compression damping circuits that there wouldn't be a need for rising rate frames and complex linkages.

    Darren

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    Where are you seeing the 170 option for 29?


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  82. #82
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    Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

    I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

    My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

    The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

    Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysrubi View Post
    Where are you seeing the 170 option for 29?


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    Fox 36 29er 170mm

    I got an email last Friday afternoon from World Wide Cyclery advertising the new orange 36 forks. I saw the 170 29 option and figured it was a typo. Called and confirmed that it was indeed correct...I had it ordered before I hung up the phone!

    They also had them listed on eBay but I believe they were sold out before the weekend was over. The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Fox 36 29er 170mm

    I got an email last Friday afternoon from World Wide Cyclery advertising the new orange 36 forks. I saw the 170 29 option and figured it was a typo. Called and confirmed that it was indeed correct...I had it ordered before I hung up the phone!

    They also had them listed on eBay but I believe they were sold out before the weekend was over. The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.
    Thanks


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  85. #85
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    @Push: How much longer until you get the 2 heavier spring options in stock for us big boys?

    Reading all these reviews...patience is hard to come by!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

    I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

    My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

    The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

    Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.
    Great review.

    I've been riding ACS3 for awhile now. At 165 lbs without gear on the blue spring, I still haven't maxed travel using 15 psi in the bump stop. I know that last bit of "Oh sh!t" travel is there if I need it but I've yet to find bottom. This kit, combined with the PUSH damper tune, is pure gold.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.
    any idea if the orange fork as well as the travel options will be available elsewhere in the near future?

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Great review.

    I've been riding ACS3 for awhile now. At 165 lbs without gear on the blue spring, I still haven't maxed travel using 15 psi in the bump stop. I know that last bit of "Oh sh!t" travel is there if I need it but I've yet to find bottom. This kit, combined with the PUSH damper tune, is pure gold.
    im around the same weight without riding gear, what made you go with the blue spring instead of the green? i asked PUSH and they recommended a green spring for some1 around 180-185(with riding gear)
    2020 yeti sb165 t2

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by useport80 View Post
    im around the same weight without riding gear, what made you go with the blue spring instead of the green? i asked PUSH and they recommended a green spring for some1 around 180-185(with riding gear)
    with gear, i'm still a good 15 pounds less than you. I went with what they recommended, then fiddled with the air stop to get it where i want. Factory was 25 psi. I'm happy with 15 on a digital gauge. Small changes seem to make big differences with the air stop.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    any idea if the orange fork as well as the travel options will be available elsewhere in the near future?
    I don't know. WWC said they had litterally just received a few into inventory and they were aware that the 170 29er couldn't be found elsewhere at that moment. I'm personally tired of black bikes so with a blue Wreckoning I can happily rock the orange fork!

  91. #91
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    A question for you guys running the PUSH coil kit, do you still get air pressure build-up in the lowers? I understand doing shuttle runs with big elevation changes may still cause this, but I don't.

  92. #92
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    woodyak
    Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

    I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

    My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

    The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

    Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.

  93. #93
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    @Push: How much longer until you get the 2 heavier spring options in stock for us big boys?

    Reading all these reviews...patience is hard to come by!
    Unfortunately it won't be until close to the end of the year. That being said, we are getting feedback that are Black and Grey springs can be set to higher rider weights. We seem to be able to get up to 245-250lbs with the Grey.

    slim2none
    A question for you guys running the PUSH coil kit, do you still get air pressure build-up in the lowers? I understand doing shuttle runs with big elevation changes may still cause this, but I don't.
    No, the issue of riders "burping" their lowers is mainly from the air spring side due to the low volume in that leg. Our ACS3 kit resolves that problem.

    Darren

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Unfortunately it won't be until close to the end of the year. That being said, we are getting feedback that are Black and Grey springs can be set to higher rider weights. We seem to be able to get up to 245-250lbs with the Grey.

    No, the issue of riders "burping" their lowers is mainly from the air spring side due to the low volume in that leg. Our ACS3 kit resolves that problem.

    Darren
    Any news on fitment for a 36 170 for a 29er?


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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysrubi View Post
    Any news on fitment for a 36 170 for a 29er?


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    The kit does work in the new 29 170mm fork.

    Darren

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    The kit does work in the new 29 170mm fork.

    Darren
    Thank you


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  97. #97
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    Sorry if this has already been asked (tried to find an answer on here), but I have a Grip damper 36. It's my understanding that this will work just as well? Have you tested it and is it worth it despite lacking the HSC and LSC adjustments?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klainmeister View Post
    Sorry if this has already been asked (tried to find an answer on here), but I have a Grip damper 36. It's my understanding that this will work just as well? Have you tested it and is it worth it despite lacking the HSC and LSC adjustments?
    It absolutely will work with Grip Damper model 36 forks and performs really well.

    Darren

  99. #99
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    Any predictions on use of the ACS-3 combined with the 2018 floatx2 shock? Anyone else planning to run this setup?

  100. #100
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    I am building up a Hightower LT with X2 on the rear and Pike 160. Waiting on the release of the ACS-3 for my fork. Hoping this is a great combo.

  101. #101
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    Same! I have a Pike 160 on my Nomad. Definitely interested in the ACS. Was thinking about getting a new fork but will wait for the ACS if it's going to be available in the near future.

  102. #102
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    Can the ACS be used by heavier riders - 240lbs? As in, are springs that are firm enough available?

  103. #103
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    So here's my little review (and rant at the end...not about Push Ind though):

    I caved last week and got the ACS3 kit. I had previously considered fabbing up a way to drop in an old Fox 36 Van coil and then look at an Avalanche cartridge. But since I already had a bunch of money in the RC2 damper (Andreani/Ohlins piston and Push tune), I decided to keep it 'Push'.

    I also had my rear shock (which is a Push tuned DHX with their custom bridge) revalved to soften the initial stroke. So I was looking forward to going riding.

    The ACS3 kit is nicely made! I had doubts about the cost and that end stroke air spring. I wasn't sure if it was legit or a gimmick, but overall it's all high-end looking and feeling, and the install was easy. So getting to riding: climbing improved big time! I guess I was so used to that lousy Fox air spring with an aftermarket main seal head to improve small bump compliance (made by 92SE-R in these forums...made an improvement for sure!), that I forgot how a coil fork could help with climbing: no more, or vastly reduced, wheel deflection. Plus the fork tracks through the obstacles instead of over them or bouncing off them. As for descending, well I carried more speed than I was previously used to on this bike with the coil in front and revised shock tune in rear. But it's not DH bike... with 6" in front and 5.5" in rear, I was getting rattled for sure.

    I had about 25psi in the air spring. I wasn't sure where to set it so I figured in the middle was good. I didn't want massive ramp up until I knew how it all felt. Next time I'm dropping to 15-20psi. But I can say that air spring works and obviously keeps that last bit of travel for those really big 'oh shit' moments. At the end of the day, you want your wheel 'suspended' and want your fork not bottoming out everywhere.

    Now for the rant: Hmmm...coil spring....end stroke air spring (think open bath damper with air pocket at the top end)...WE HAD THAT 20 YEARS AGO! Bit props to Push for developing parts and upgrades for modern forks though. I still think the Fox 36 is the best single chassis around even though their internals are complete garbage, but this bike industry is getting silly. Somehow air springs were pushed on us, meanwhile everyone knows they're not as good as coil. Online mags like to say "feels like a coil" but we all know that can't be true. Maybe because everyone is using closed/sealed dampers with no ramp up a the end so an air spring is necessary? I don't know. What I do know is a guy like Craig has been making his DHF cartridges pretty much the same since 1999 (except with a few upgrades) and they still work better than any new 2018 product. Rant over.

    Overall I'm super happy with the Push ACS3 system. If you're fed up with your air spring and know you're not getting rid of your fork because you're tired of dumping money into bikes due to all these new standards and other bullshit, then the ACS3 may be for you! You don't feel the added weight at all because you're too busy ripping up trails that gave you issues before!

    Makes me wonder... how are the Fox 40 with Ti springs working? Are they always bottoming out or are people running them oversprung? Push could make an end-stroke air spring for the 40. That would be neat.
    Kona Operator CR and Santa Cruz Megatower

  104. #104
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    Good thoughts. With the Avy cart, I get the air-spring effect with the oil level + the hydraulic anti-bottoming cone, and based on my hard riding, this has definitely worked well at the end of stroke, even on the biggest of screw-ups or hits that weren't intended (like completely clearing a big jump and transition on the other side). The other thing you get is a real open-bath damper, simplifying the oil changes, wear and tear on the parts (no bladder to break or bleed) and lubricate, leaving the other side with it's oil bath. Although there are performance advantages to the closed dampers, in my experience the actual damping tune is more critical and more than often not "nailed" as far as the piston and shim setup.

    It's kind of interesting how we have two ways to go about something (avy cart + regular spring and coil conversion + original damper) and can get decent results either way. For the most part, what we haven't had is a good coil damped shock, it's a unicorn that shows up every once and a while, then disappears. The Marzocchi RC2 Evo Ti -whatever else dampers that were almost copies of the Avalanche approached this, as did some of the coil fox with the true high/low speed adjustable dampers, but just as soon as these products showed up, it seemed they went away, and damn if we can ever get this stuff in decent XC chassis to have actual adjustable low and high speed damping without turning the suspension into a jackhammer when you try to run more than a few clicks of rebound or compression damping. Earlier stuff like the old Shivers, Monster Ts, Boxxers, etc., were just absolute jokes in terms of damping. They had the springs, some of them had the lubrication, but the dampers were so crude that any actual control seemed to be random chance, rather than a designed-in-feature.

    As you say, none of this is secret technology and it's been in existence and used in motor sports for much longer, as well as since at least 1998 with avalanche, yet every year Fox seems to be trying to ram a new 3-position damper down our throats with the "blows through travel, harsh and unbelievably harsh-damper settings.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  105. #105
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    Super stoked. Ordered the spring kit for my 18 36 this weekend. CANT WAIT. Looking forward to that flat tire plushness.

  106. #106
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    @artsn: You're going to like it.

    Push is in a position where they could unleash a line of single-tune shocks for the AM/Enduro/DH crowds. My feeling is over the last several years, Push has slowly come more and more into the spotlight and I think a new line of shocks would be well received and popular. Not sure if they've considered this or if it would be sustainable or a money maker.
    Kona Operator CR and Santa Cruz Megatower

  107. #107
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    @ChristoperRobin - small incremental PSI in the air stop make for big performance changes. Dropping mine from "stock" 25 psi to 17 psi (digital shock pump) made a big difference. Definitely don't be afraid to experiment.

  108. #108
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    Same! I have a Pike 160 on my Nomad. Definitely interested in the ACS. Was thinking about getting a new fork but will wait for the ACS if it's going to be available in the near future.
    The PIKE version has been released into production, so it won't be long. We should have a sign up available within a couple of weeks.

    Can the ACS be used by heavier riders - 240lbs? As in, are springs that are firm enough available?
    The current kit will support up to 245lbs with our grey spring(60lb/in) in both the 160mm and 170mm configurations. Our spring chart is a little conservative for riders over 210lbs based on feedback.

    Overall I'm super happy with the Push ACS3 system. If you're fed up with your air spring and know you're not getting rid of your fork because you're tired of dumping money into bikes due to all these new standards and other bullshit, then the ACS3 may be for you! You don't feel the added weight at all because you're too busy ripping up trails that gave you issues before!
    Stoked about the fact that you like both the fit and finish as well as the performance. As with all of our products, a lot of time and energy is put into them.

    Super stoked. Ordered the spring kit for my 18 36 this weekend. CANT WAIT. Looking forward to that flat tire plushness.


    Push is in a position where they could unleash a line of single-tune shocks for the AM/Enduro/DH crowds. My feeling is over the last several years, Push has slowly come more and more into the spotlight and I think a new line of shocks would be well received and popular. Not sure if they've considered this or if it would be sustainable or a money maker
    You make it sound so easy! The reality is, we're a small company compared to the other suspension companies that are out there and we just don't have the budgets they do. Also, we've chosen a business path that you don't find very often in our industry in the fact that we do everything right here under our roof....including all of the manufacturing. So for us, with limited resources, we have to be selective about every product that we make because we want to ensure the best customer experience possible.

    Darren

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    The PIKE version has been released into production, so it won't be long. We should have a sign up available within a couple of weeks.

    Darren
    Excellent. I'll be signing up!

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craw View Post
    Excellent. I'll be signing up!
    x2!

  111. #111
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    Question. Coil in a Pike Charger vs Pike Charger 2 vs Fox...

    How much does the damper effect the feel?

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamper11 View Post
    Question. Coil in a Pike Charger vs Pike Charger 2 vs Fox...

    How much does the damper effect the feel?
    Think how different a fork rides with the rebound all the way closed, and all the way open. Same with the compression dial. That's how much a damper can effect the feel.
    A fork without a damper is just a pogo stick, no matter if the spring is coil or air.

  113. #113
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    LOVE it. Only one ride in so far. Running 40psi in the bottom out, probably try 35 next ride. Best fork I've ever ridden.
    Denver, CO

  114. #114
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  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Because it's not the same product

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Because it's not the same product
    Are you sure that you are not on the Push company payroll?
    ****

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Are you sure that you are not on the Push company payroll?
    Both in Loveland, CO...maybe just neighbors...



    Or on the payroll.

    I get it, one has a air component to ramp up. Also costs twice as much. I guess if you need to match your eleven-6, you don't care about dropping $400 modding a $1000 fork.

    Until Fox releases a 36 Vanilla.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Are you sure that you are not on the Push company payroll?
    Might not be on the payroll but more the "broroll" aka getting parts before they come out to other at cost or slightly above. I would be SHOCKED if he pays MSRP for everything.

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  119. #119
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    I think the Push air spring has benefits. My open bath downhill fork has that 5" air pocket at the top for end stroke progression. I'd like to hear an in depth review from someone that has a Pike with coil conversion. It would be interesting to see the difference between the two.

    Regarding that comment about throwing $400 at an already $1000...yeah it's silly but why is there room to make an already expensive fork work better??

    I bet Fox comes out with a Vanilla fork and charge extra saying it's the next best thing (meanwhile we'll be going back in time) because they'll see people are switching to coil. I think it'll be like their evol cans: Vorsprung came up with a cool way of dealing with Fox's spring issue and the next thing you know, evol cans are released.
    Kona Operator CR and Santa Cruz Megatower

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    ... I bet Fox comes out with a Vanilla fork and charge extra saying it's the next best thing (meanwhile we'll be going back in time) because they'll see people are switching to coil. I think it'll be like their evol cans: Vorsprung came up with a cool way of dealing with Fox's spring issue and the next thing you know, evol cans are released.
    Of course they will. They'd be silly not to


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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    LOVE it. Only one ride in so far. Running 40psi in the bottom out, probably try 35 next ride. Best fork I've ever ridden.
    That seems pretty high, whatís your geared up weight?


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    That high eh? I'll be trying closer to 17psi this afternoon
    Kona Operator CR and Santa Cruz Megatower

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyval View Post
    That seems pretty high, whatís your geared up weight?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Has nothing to do with weight brah 200lb 55lb spring. Rode a semi-mild trail, used all but a little more then 1". Moab next week will be the real test.
    Denver, CO

  124. #124
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    What's the philosophy on these...lighter coil/ higher psi or heavier coil/ lower psi, who's tried both?


    Anyone installed hbo into the rc2 side w/ lighter coil?
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  125. #125
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    Question. Coil in a Pike Charger vs Pike Charger 2 vs Fox...

    How much does the damper effect the feel?
    The damper certainly effects the feel and performance but with the dampers listed there is a significant amount of adjustability for the rider to dial in their ride preference.

    LOVE it. Only one ride in so far. Running 40psi in the bottom out, probably try 35 next ride. Best fork I've ever ridden.


    TF is a long term partner of ours as well as PUSH Tuning Center. This product is sold as an entry level kit, whereas they offer our ACS3 kit to performance minded customers.

    What's the philosophy on these...lighter coil/ higher psi or heavier coil/ lower psi, who's tried both?


    Anyone installed hbo into the rc2 side w/ lighter coil?
    It's not really like that. You want to make sure you get on the correct spring rate for your weight/riding style and then use the ABS unit to control the ramp up/end stroke feel you prefer. There is no right or wrong pressure to run, just personal preference and riding style. You can have to riders of equal weight on equal bikes with the same spring rate but with a 20psi difference in their ABS unit based on riding style.

    Darren

  126. #126
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    Will the pike one work with 29er 140mm fork?

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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    It's not really like that. You want to make sure you get on the correct spring rate for your weight/riding style and then use the ABS unit to control the ramp up/end stroke feel you prefer. There is no right or wrong pressure to run, just personal preference and riding style. You can have to riders of equal weight on equal bikes with the same spring rate but with a 20psi difference in their ABS unit based on riding style.

    Darren
    Thanks. Purely end of travel tuning...nice, sounds smooth
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post


    TF is a long term partner of ours as well as PUSH Tuning Center. This product is sold as an entry level kit, whereas they offer our ACS3 kit to performance minded customers.


    Darren
    Interesting...so every Vanilla or previous coil fork would be considered entry level? Aside from the Marzzochi's that did use air for ramp-up / end stroke adjustment.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Interesting...so every Vanilla or previous coil fork would be considered entry level? Aside from the Marzzochi's that did use air for ramp-up / end stroke adjustment.
    Is that really what you think Darren is trying to say from his replies? I doubt that. Your questions are misleading and designed only to provoke.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Is that really what you think Darren is trying to say from his replies? I doubt that. Your questions are misleading and designed only to provoke.
    Haters are going to hate. Once sampled, the product speaks for itself. I only hope they make an 11-6 for the new Enduros.
    Denver, CO

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    Interesting...so every Vanilla or previous coil fork would be considered entry level? Aside from the Marzzochi's that did use air for ramp-up / end stroke adjustment.
    No, however the later model FIT 36 Vanilla had lost it's hydraulic bottom out feature and the FLOAT/TALAS versions were being sold as the flagship models. Regardless, the Vanilla was a completely engineered product, not a FLOAT where the air shaft was modified and a spring put in the leg.

    Also, referring to the TF kit as entry-level is not my words, it comes from TF themselves.

    Darren

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    Any more ride reports for the ACS-3? Specifically, how much noise does the coil spring make compared the older Fox coil sprung 36? Thanks

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    I would love to see some charts showing the differences between the Mattoc Pro 2 with MRD IRT installed, and the ACS3 installed in non-revalved Float 36!
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmxtrdr View Post
    Any more ride reports for the ACS-3? Specifically, how much noise does the coil spring make compared the older Fox coil sprung 36? Thanks
    Zero noise. Nothing like the old fox.

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    ACS-3 is worth the cash if you're wondering.

    First post but long time reader and I'd like to share. Couple of guys in here already gave their fantastic reviews so no point in repeating what they said. Only thing I have to offer is a photo. Hint: AVY+ACS-3=BOMB.

    Push ACS-3 Coil Conversion kit-20171007_174501.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel0073 View Post
    Hint: AVY+ACS-3=BOMB.
    About your Avvy---did you have it before the ACS3? Did craig custom build it to work with the ACS3? Are you running the Avvy anti bottom valve, or using the Push air bump?

    I've run an Avvy before and have wondered how well it would play with this "progressive" coil setup....

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    About your Avvy---did you have it before the ACS3? Did craig custom build it to work with the ACS3? Are you running the Avvy anti bottom valve, or using the Push air bump?

    I've run an Avvy before and have wondered how well it would play with this "progressive" coil setup....
    I got the Avy after the ACS-3. I went from all stock to MRP for about 2 weeks, then went to ACS-3. ACS-3 with stock fit4 damper is much better but really wasn't that great either. FIT4 is really a horrible damper, well as good as it can be as it's made to try and please everyone out there. I almost went with a 2018 36 but after a lot of soul searching decided on the Avy upgrade. Thank heavens I did. Anyway, to your other questions.

    Craig didn't do anything special when it came to tuning for the ACS-3. He did mention that once you you come into the range of the air bump, it will affect how the damper performs. My setup was new to him and he asked me quite a bit of questions on it. I got the anti-bottom valve so I can try the setup with the push air bump or with the anti-bottom valve. Craig also recommends going with the next stiffer coil as well. My weight calls for a blue push coil so I bought a green when I purchased the Avy damper.

    There's a easy way to disable PUSH's air bump and go with the anti-bottoming valve. Take out the air bump cartridge, push on the piston, release all the air in the air bump. The piston stay's put and doesn't extend. This way, you have a completely linear setup. Yes, half or more of the cost of the ACS-3 probably goes into the air bump but it's still there and can be activated at a moments notice for different reasons.

    If you want to try using the air-bump, instead of the anti-bottoming, it's a bit more involved as you have to take out the Avy cartridge and disable the anti-bottoming valve but I've tried it both ways and right now I prefer disabling the air bump. With the next coil for my weight I can push it pretty hard without bottoming and if it does bottom out (you can't technically with the anti-bottom valve activated), I increase lsc by 1 click and that solves that issue. Doing it this way, I feel, gives me the most efficient way to use all of the forks travel.

  138. #138
    SyT
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    Can anyone tell me the ID, OD, and length of the spring?

  139. #139
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    What's that 36 weigh with the coil and avy conversion installed?

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Can anyone tell me the ID, OD, and length of the spring?
    Not sure why you need it but here it is.

    ID: 18.75mm
    OD: 28.1mm
    Length: 11 7/8 in

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn View Post
    What's that 36 weigh with the coil and avy conversion installed?
    Well, the Fox 36 weighs 1,964g, the ACS-3 will add 285g or so and the ava cart is 238g. That brings the grand total to 2,487g or about 5.48lbs. Extra pound but I really didn't notice a difference at all. Just gotta make sure I take a piss before my rides.

  142. #142
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    Adding my two cents - I too have the ACS-3 on a Nomad 3 in front of an 11/6, in a 160mm Fox 36 RC2 I had already purchased from PUSH about three weeks before the ACS-3 was announced. The new air spring was already sticking so badly I had the worst bike park experience of my life last month at Whistler. With the tuned damper I had enough range of adjustment there, but the spring just wouldn't move fast enough to go down the chatter at full speed. PUSH called me in response to my customer service request for help and we figured this might be the fix - which it has been.

    My riding weight is about in the middle of the green and heavier black spring, so I went with the black spring. Feels firm in a parking lot push-down test and rides high (20mm or so) but when riding it's great. Everything is fixed now - it will move easily and quickly for bumps. On an air spring there's often this feel on the back end of a square edge where you feel the fork extend after it breaks through that initial stiction...that's just not there anymore. If I was just riding along I might want the green spring for a little more plushness at slow to average speeds, but for going fast and landing on things the heavier spring is absolutely the way to go.

    The big parks are closed now, but there are some really high speed berms and turns into jumps at a small park near me that are suffering from late-season blow out and have lots of braking bumps leading into them. I can rip all the way through them nearly sideways. Best way to put it is I have monster truck traction at both ends of the bike and can probably get a way with a lot more now than before.

    And of course it sets the PUSH RC2 cartridge free so single clicks of adjustment are once again noticeable, just like when it was new a couple months ago, or in the 11/6.

    Weight...not noticed. My Nomad was 28.75 pounds when it started, now it's something over 30 with Onyx hubs, 2.6" tires, an 11/6 and the Fox 36. It's faster now, up and down...

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel0073 View Post
    Not sure why you need it but here it is.

    ID: 18.75mm
    OD: 28.1mm
    Length: 11 7/8 in
    Thank you.

  144. #144
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    Rode my other bike with a Fox 34 (fit4) yesterday after spending the previous two days in moab on the Push 36 (valving and coil) and the 36 has ruined me. Everything else feels like shit. Thanks Push.
    Denver, CO

  145. #145
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    FIT4 is really a horrible damper, well as good as it can be as it's made to try and please everyone out there.
    I'm guessing that there's something up with yours because the FIT-4 damper is really quite good. When tuned it's about the best damper out there IMO.

    Ultimately, I'm stoked you found a setup that works so well for you!

    Rode my other bike with a Fox 34 (fit4) yesterday after spending the previous two days in moab on the Push 36 (valving and coil) and the 36 has ruined me. Everything else feels like shit. Thanks Push.
    You're so very welcome!

    Can anyone tell me the ID, OD, and length of the spring?
    They vary based on rate. Specifically on free length.

    I would love to see some charts showing the differences between the Mattoc Pro 2 with MRD IRT installed, and the ACS3 installed in non-revalved Float 36!
    Air vs Coil. The difference would be the same as the 36 Air vs Coil setup.

    Darren

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    I've got a 2016 Fox 36 RC2 with some minor nicks on the stanchions. It still holds air but I'm hoping to improve performance and extend the fork's life by installing an ACS3 the next time it needs service. With the sealed RC2 damping system and an ACS3 coil spring, would I even need to care anymore about scratched stanchions?

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    Adding my two cents - I too have the ACS-3 on a Nomad 3 in front of an 11/6
    Almost the same here. Nomad 3, 11/6 that I got in June. New Fox 36 RC2 w/ ACS-3 from Push as soon as it became available in August. I was in-between two spring stiffnesses based on my inputs and weight (190lb w/ gear and shoes). The tech opted for the stiffer of the two springs since I wanted the "Trail Aggressive" style.

    The only thing I've changed since getting it was to bump the bottom-out up to 20psi (the default) from 10psi (what they put in it). I've bottomed it out only once, on a pretty high-speed drop to an uphill landing. Everywhere else up to 7-10ft drops to flat it's been smooth.

    Over time I've also noticed the improved performance climbing through rocks that I used to always get hung-up on. Traction is unbreakable all around unless I hit something that's actually slippery.

    It's everything that the 11/6 does, but now my fork does it as well.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    Almost the same here. Nomad 3, 11/6 that I got in June. New Fox 36 RC2 w/ ACS-3 from Push as soon as it became available in August. I was in-between two spring stiffnesses based on my inputs and weight (190lb w/ gear and shoes). The tech opted for the stiffer of the two springs since I wanted the "Trail Aggressive" style.

    The only thing I've changed since getting it was to bump the bottom-out up to 20psi (the default) from 10psi (what they put in it). I've bottomed it out only once, on a pretty high-speed drop to an uphill landing. Everywhere else up to 7-10ft drops to flat it's been smooth.

    Over time I've also noticed the improved performance climbing through rocks that I used to always get hung-up on. Traction is unbreakable all around unless I hit something that's actually slippery.

    It's everything that the 11/6 does, but now my fork does it as well.
    Do Push do anything else to the fork apart from fitting the coil

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post

    They vary based on rate. Specifically on free length.
    Darren, the 55#/in is the rate I'm specifically asking for.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren, the 55#/in is the rate I'm specifically asking for.
    Funny, that's the exact coil I used when taking the measurements. 55#/in black coil.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel0073 View Post
    Funny, that's the exact coil I used when taking the measurements. 55#/in black coil.
    Excellent, thanks again!

  152. #152
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    Has anyone with this kit ( I have 2 of them) thought that they needed to go with a lighter spring than Pushes charts recommends? I have 2 Fox 36 160 mm forks and I'm 170ish with gear which puts me right in the middle of the blue spring but I only get about 20 % sag and the fork ride higher and I can't get the last bit of travel. My HA is around 65 deg on both bikes, so could that require me to go with an orange spring? You know, more side loading on the fork bushings and less downward force! Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Edit: I'm using about 15 psi in the bump stop. I know I could go down to 5 psi, but that doesn't affect the sag anyway!
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  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcman View Post
    Has anyone with this kit ( I have 2 of them) thought that they needed to go with a lighter spring than Pushes charts recommends? I have 2 Fox 36 160 mm forks and I'm 170ish with gear which puts me right in the middle of the blue spring but I only get about 20 % sag and the fork ride higher and I can't get the last bit of travel. My HA is around 65 deg on both bikes, so could that require me to go with an orange spring? You know, more side loading on the fork bushings and less downward force! Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Edit: I'm using about 15 psi in the bump stop. I know I could go down to 5 psi, but that doesn't affect the sag anyway!
    Unfortunately, the amount of travel used has become an indicator of suspension performance in the MTB community when in fact using full travel generally means your setup is too soft. Should you bottom you suspension? Yes. Should it be a guage of proper setup...no. At your rider weight, you're perfect for the blue(45lb/in) spring with about 15-20psi of ABS pressure. Be happy that when that oh sh^% moment arrives you're prepared!

    As for sag.....that's honestly the biggest variable with MTB suspension and should only be used as a rough guide to get started. Seated, standing, over the front of the bars, laying near the rear wheel, seatpost compressed, seatpost extended.....too many factors to be accurate.

    Ride quality is the key these days, not sag or travel numbers unfortunately.

    I'd be happy to discuss your setup directly if you want to email or phone me.

    Thanks,

    Darren

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Unfortunately, the amount of travel used has become an indicator of suspension performance in the MTB community when in fact using full travel generally means your setup is too soft. Should you bottom you suspension? Yes. Should it be a guage of proper setup...no. At your rider weight, you're perfect for the blue(45lb/in) spring with about 15-20psi of ABS pressure. Be happy that when that oh sh^% moment arrives you're prepared!

    As for sag.....that's honestly the biggest variable with MTB suspension and should only be used as a rough guide to get started. Seated, standing, over the front of the bars, laying near the rear wheel, seatpost compressed, seatpost extended.....too many factors to be accurate.

    Ride quality is the key these days, not sag or travel numbers unfortunately.

    I'd be happy to discuss your setup directly if you want to email or phone me.

    Thanks,

    Darren
    Thanks Darren for chiming in on this. I had already talked to one of your techs earlier today and was told pretty much the same thing. I like to experiment with my setups so I went ahead and ordered a orange spring just for fun to see how it works. I probably will need more bump stop pressure for sure but I like a supportive and plush suspension, which your spring kit already delivers in spades.
    2018 Santa Cruz Nomad
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  155. #155
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    My shock pump sucks. 15 psi barely registers on the dial so I'm thinking a digital pump is in order. Although with next to no pressure, I'm still not getting full travel. I'm still a good 2" short... but I guess that's ok.
    Kona Operator CR and Santa Cruz Megatower

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    How tight is the valve against other things? Maybe this will fit ??
    https://www.evanscycles.com/en-se/to...YaAv8qEALw_wcB

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    My shock pump sucks. 15 psi barely registers on the dial so I'm thinking a digital pump is in order. Although with next to no pressure, I'm still not getting full travel. I'm still a good 2" short... but I guess that's ok.
    Just get this and be done with it. Identical to the fox.

    https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Fork-Sh...tal+shock+pump

  158. #158
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    So I've decided to pull the trigger on the ACS-3. I'm converting a 2018 Fox 36 Performance. I'm right on the line between the blue spring and green spring depending if I'm riding with heavier or lighter kit. Could someone lend some insight on some of the benefits / drawbacks of going with the lighter vs heavier spring. I suppose I could get both but I'd like to avoid it if possible. I ride a lot of rocks/roots in south east w/ the occasional 4 ft or less drop. Want the small bump compliance of coil with glued to the ground feel.

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimarin View Post
    Just get this and be done with it. Identical to the fox.

    https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Fork-Sh...tal+shock+pump
    Agreed. I have one from Performance that I'm sure is also the same as the Venzo & Fox, just with a different logo. Works great.

  160. #160
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    Hmm, now, should I wait for a ACS3 for my 160mm Avy Pike or get a 170mm Push ACS3 Float?
    Nomad 3 with 11-6.


    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headoc View Post
    So I've decided to pull the trigger on the ACS-3. I'm converting a 2018 Fox 36 Performance. I'm right on the line between the blue spring and green spring depending if I'm riding with heavier or lighter kit. Could someone lend some insight on some of the benefits / drawbacks of going with the lighter vs heavier spring. I suppose I could get both but I'd like to avoid it if possible. I ride a lot of rocks/roots in south east w/ the occasional 4 ft or less drop. Want the small bump compliance of coil with glued to the ground feel.
    Now is a great time as you can get free shipping through Friday using Discount Code: PUSH14 at checkout! How much do you weigh and what bike is it going on?

    Darren

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Hmm, now, should I wait for a ACS3 for my 160mm Avy Pike or get a 170mm Push ACS3 Float?
    Nomad 3 with 11-6.


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    I think that an ACS3 with an avy cartridge would be quite overkill. I did an avy cartridge with a luftkappe.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    I think that an ACS3 with an avy cartridge would be quite overkill. I did an avy cartridge with a luftkappe.
    Craig didn't recommend the luftkappe for a 160mm fork. However, he said a 150 or 140 would benefit...

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  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Craig didn't recommend the luftkappe for a 160mm fork. However, he said a 150 or 140 would benefit...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    I run a 140 and it is good. Did he give you specific reasons as why it's not recommended? Do you run 0 tokens?

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Now is a great time as you can get free shipping through Friday using Discount Code: PUSH14 at checkout! How much do you weigh and what bike is it going on?

    Darren

    180-185 Kitted depending if I got to eat lunch the day before.


    2018 Rallon.

    You want to put together an 11-6 for it too? I'm all in on this coil resurgence.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    I run a 140 and it is good. Did he give you specific reasons as why it's not recommended? Do you run 0 tokens?
    Yes 0 tokens. I am light, 140lbs and never bottom out the Avy pike.
    What I would like to fix is the loss of travel due to the negative chamber and stiction. My pike sits at 150mm instead of 160mm. Sometimes even lower.
    I also want to improve small bump compliance without running too little preload and introducing excessive diving when braking.
    The fork is progressive enough for me.

    I don't remember Craigs exact reason for not running the luftkappe in my case.
    I believe it has something to do with tokens and negative air and contradiction...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Headoc View Post
    180-185 Kitted depending if I got to eat lunch the day before.


    2018 Rallon.

    You want to put together an 11-6 for it too? I'm all in on this coil resurgence.
    At that weight you're on the high end of the Blue, and the low end of the green. If you want plush, go Blue and run 20-30psi in the ABS. The green would still be better than the air setup, but would really get good when charging harder and riding bigger terrain.

    That bike is very interesting to me....need to get our hands on one.

    Darren

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Yes 0 tokens. I am light, 140lbs and never bottom out the Avy pike.
    What I would like to fix is the loss of travel due to the negative chamber and stiction. My pike sits at 150mm instead of 160mm. Sometimes even lower.
    I also want to improve small bump compliance without running too little preload and introducing excessive diving when braking.
    The fork is progressive enough for me.

    I don't remember Craigs exact reason for not running the luftkappe in my case.
    I believe it has something to do with tokens and negative air and contradiction...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    Have you tried letting all the air pressure out and then doing the zip tie trick? That should allow the fork to extend to full travel.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    Have you tried letting all the air pressure out and then doing the zip tie trick? That should allow the fork to extend to full travel.
    I have tried everything possible
    Reinstalled the air shaft at least 4times, which obviously included the open bath refills... Cleaning the equalizing dimple.
    Cycled the fork several times when adding air at 15psi increments.
    Zip tie trick.
    I should mention this was originally a 150fork and I swapped the 150mm airshaft with a 160mm.
    I can equalize the air by pulling on the fork. Either with no air in the upper chamber or while on the trail with air inside. I can manually extend it to 160mm, but it doesn't stay there, when I press on it it comes back to only 150mm or even less...
    I am running 50psi to 54psi.
    Craig recommends 50 for my we


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  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I have tried everything possible
    Reinstalled the air shaft at least 4times, which obviously included the open bath refills... Cleaning the equalizing dimple.
    Cycled the fork several times when adding air at 15psi increments.
    Zip tie trick.
    I should mention this was originally a 150fork and I swapped the 150mm airshaft with a 160mm.
    I can equalize the air by pulling on the fork. Either with no air in the upper chamber or while on the trail with air inside. I can manually extend it to 160mm, but it doesn't stay there, when I press on it it comes back to only 150mm or even less...
    I am running 50psi to 54psi.
    Craig recommends 50 for my we


    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

    You had me at "air shaft"

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    You had me at "air shaft"

    Any recommendations?
    Before I jump on the coil, I would like to see if there is anything else I can try with the air to get the travel to 160mm...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post

    Any recommendations?
    Before I jump on the coil, I would like to see if there is anything else I can try with the air to get the travel to 160mm...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    Sorry, no. I'm a ACS -Fox guy. I'm done fiddling with tokens, zip ties, constant pressure checks and various add-on widgets in the never ending futile attempt to get an air fork to feel right.
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 10-18-2017 at 02:41 PM.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I have tried everything possible
    Reinstalled the air shaft at least 4times, which obviously included the open bath refills... Cleaning the equalizing dimple.
    Cycled the fork several times when adding air at 15psi increments.
    Zip tie trick.
    I should mention this was originally a 150fork and I swapped the 150mm airshaft with a 160mm.
    I can equalize the air by pulling on the fork. Either with no air in the upper chamber or while on the trail with air inside. I can manually extend it to 160mm, but it doesn't stay there, when I press on it it comes back to only 150mm or even less...
    I am running 50psi to 54psi.
    Craig recommends 50 for my we


    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    I'm in the same situation with my Pike with an avy damper. The zip tie trick will work temporarily. Once the fork gets sucked down I'm either stuck with that or adding air to restore the ride height which makes the fork feel terrible. I've also tried everything you listed here with no success. Just did the full air side service as well as damper oil change and it's still the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    I think that an ACS3 with an avy cartridge would be quite overkill. I did an avy cartridge with a luftkappe.
    Honest question, how it is overkill? Especially given the problems jazzanova and I described above.

    I like the avy damper both from a performance and maintenance perspective. I'd like better performance and minimal maintenance from the spring side as well and am willing to deal with a slightly heavier fork to get it. My complaints are on the spring side and I don't see how the avy cart help alleviate them? Believe me, I'd love to be told how to solve those problems in the Pike without buying the coil kit.

  174. #174
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    The "Zip Tie" trick only works on positive pressure that's burped from the air spring into the lower leg. So, if you're having problems with the fork not extending fully this won't help. The problem that you're experiencing has to do with the equalization of the positive and negative air in the air spring. When combined with the friction from the system you get a fork that won't extend fully. Servicing the fork and air system will provide a temporary fix, but doesn't last.

    Darren

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    The "Zip Tie" trick only works on positive pressure that's burped from the air spring into the lower leg. So, if you're having problems with the fork not extending fully this won't help. The problem that you're experiencing has to do with the equalization of the positive and negative air in the air spring. When combined with the friction from the system you get a fork that won't extend fully. Servicing the fork and air system will provide a temporary fix, but doesn't last.

    Darren
    Is this a common thing?
    Why does it happen to some air forks while most don't have the problem?
    Can a relatively low air pressure due to my weight be a factor here?
    I have also noticed that a hard riding in a park can sometimes help to a certain extend.
    Is there anything at all I can try to solve this?

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by saucerboy View Post
    Honest question, how it is overkill? Especially given the problems jazzanova and I described above.

    I like the avy damper both from a performance and maintenance perspective. I'd like better performance and minimal maintenance from the spring side as well and am willing to deal with a slightly heavier fork to get it. My complaints are on the spring side and I don't see how the avy cart help alleviate them? Believe me, I'd love to be told how to solve those problems in the Pike without buying the coil kit.
    Overkill was probably the wrong word to use. My opinion was based on the fact that there are other cheaper alternatives to get a similar effect. For me, that was the luftkappe and its benefits to initial stroke and ramp up. In this case though, you and Jazzanova cannot go that route though and have no other choice. I am about 200# when riding, what works for me is not going to work for someone who is 140#.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by saucerboy View Post
    I'm in the same situation with my Pike with an avy damper. The zip tie trick will work temporarily. Once the fork gets sucked down I'm either stuck with that or adding air to restore the ride height which makes the fork feel terrible. I've also tried everything you listed here with no success. Just did the full air side service as well as damper oil change and it's still the same.


    Honest question, how it is overkill? Especially given the problems jazzanova and I described above.

    I like the avy damper both from a performance and maintenance perspective. I'd like better performance and minimal maintenance from the spring side as well and am willing to deal with a slightly heavier fork to get it. My complaints are on the spring side and I don't see how the avy cart help alleviate them? Believe me, I'd love to be told how to solve those problems in the Pike without buying the coil kit.
    Initially, I thought the problem was with the way how the air shaft was installed.
    There is a video made by mbr, I believe, that shows the air shaft being installed with fully pressed fork or air shaft inserted fully inside. This might create an excessive negative pressure and vacuum sucking the fork inside and effectively reducing travel.
    So I tried to install the air shaft various ways, nothing really helped...

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Is this a common thing?
    Why does it happen to some air forks while most don't have the problem?
    Can a relatively low air pressure due to my weight be a factor here?
    I have also noticed that a hard riding in a park can sometimes help to a certain extend.
    Is there anything at all I can try to help with this?

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    It is very common, and it is due to running lower pressures. Basically air springs have a happy spot. Too far below and you get things like what you're experiencing, to far above and other traits get exaggerated.

    As for the park riding, the fork is under such high loading that pressure building in the positive chamber as well as burping into the lower leg is causing the pressure balance to be off. I'm sure you've also noticed in this situation that you've lost the initial small bump sensitivity that the fork had as well.

    This is why we built the ACS3 system. Set it, forget it, enjoy shredding a fork that feels the same regardless of temperature, elevation, humidity, number of runs....basically all of the things that negatively effect an air system. All, while throwing the air system 40hr maintenance out the door as well.

    Darren

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    It is very common, and it is due to running lower pressures. Basically air springs have a happy spot. Too far below and you get things like what you're experiencing, to far above and other traits get exaggerated.

    As for the park riding, the fork is under such high loading that pressure building in the positive chamber as well as burping into the lower leg is causing the pressure balance to be off. I'm sure you've also noticed in this situation that you've lost the initial small bump sensitivity that the fork had as well.

    This is why we built the ACS3 system. Set it, forget it, enjoy shredding a fork that feels the same regardless of temperature, elevation, humidity, number of runs....basically all of the things that negatively effect an air system. All, while throwing the air system 40hr maintenance out the door as well.

    Darren
    Thanks Darren!
    So when will be the pike kit available?
    I know this is subjective and especially so, given the circumstances, but let me ask.
    Since I already own Avy open bath damper, do you approve to run it with your coil?


    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    Overkill was probably the wrong word to use. My opinion was based on the fact that there are other cheaper alternatives to get a similar effect. For me, that was the luftkappe and its benefits to initial stroke and ramp up. In this case though, you and Jazzanova cannot go that route though and have no other choice. I am about 200# when riding, what works for me is not going to work for someone who is 140#.
    Gotcha. Yeah, I'm in between you guys in weight. About 180 without gear and try to run the fork at 65-70psi per Craig at Avalanche's recommendation. If the only hassle with air was the short maintenance I'd probably just stick with it. These other issues mean I'd be trying other forks in search of the one that doesn't have this problem anyway. The coil kit is cheaper and easier than that.

  181. #181
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    Oh the days of dicking with an air spring has now been a thing of the past for me and many others. Tokens, ramps, lubes, pressures, rebuilds, magic fairy dust all futile. Life is so easy now with the ACS-3. It just works, beautifully I might add. Just the headache relief alone is worth the money. Also AVY+ACS-3 is not overkill, it finally feels on-par with the 11/6 I have in the rear.

    Seriously though, if you want a system that works the way it should, be hassle free, and performs far better than any air spring setup. Coil is the way to go. I really don't see a reason not to switch to coil, spring swap? That's what... 2 minutes tops?

  182. #182
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    I have 3 Pikes. They all will build air in the lowers eventually. The reason you don't hear more about this is that most people don't notice the performance decline. I am buying the Push Coil system when available for the Pike. I need consistency. J

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogiKudo View Post
    I have 3 Pikes. They all will build air in the lowers eventually. The reason you don't hear more about this is that most people don't notice the performance decline. I am buying the Push Coil system when available for the Pike. I need consistency. J
    The new lower stanchion seals solved that and other things on my Pike. With that fix I'd put the stock Pike as more plush than the air spring 36. But I'd bet the ASC-3 in the Pike would be completely awesome. I think the Charger damper is great, even compared to my PUSH dampers over the years.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

  184. #184
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    you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    My shock pump sucks. 15 psi barely registers on the dial so I'm thinking a digital pump is in order. Although with next to no pressure, I'm still not getting full travel. I'm still a good 2" short... but I guess that's ok.
    breezy shade

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?
    Check out post #153 on this thread.

    Darren

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel0073 View Post
    Oh the days of dicking with an air spring has now been a thing of the past for me and many others. Tokens, ramps, lubes, pressures, rebuilds, magic fairy dust all futile. Life is so easy now with the ACS-3. It just works, beautifully I might add. Just the headache relief alone is worth the money. Also AVY+ACS-3 is not overkill, it finally feels on-par with the 11/6 I have in the rear.

    Seriously though, if you want a system that works the way it should, be hassle free, and performs far better than any air spring setup. Coil is the way to go. I really don't see a reason not to switch to coil, spring swap? That's what... 2 minutes tops?


    Thanks Darren!
    So when will be the pike kit available?
    I know this is subjective and especially so, given the circumstances, but let me ask.
    Since I already own Avy open bath damper, do you approve to run it with your coil?
    Pike is currently in production. I was actually next door checking out the ABS units for the new Boost Pike being machined today. Won't be long before an announcement. As for the damper, we prefer the stock sealed dampers that come with the forks, but if the AVY is your thing we have no problem.

    Darren

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?
    Well to be fair, I'm still sorting out some stuff. My spring weight is fine but my damper is tuned with heavy damping right now from when I was heavier and using the air spring. My old Fox 36 Van with Avalanche cartridge was similar: unreal suspension quality but unless I screwed up and had all my weight on the front end, it would be hard to get the last bit of travel. Same goes with my 888 with Avalanche kit.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post


    Pike is currently in production. I was actually next door checking out the ABS units for the new Boost Pike being machined today. Won't be long before an announcement. As for the damper, we prefer the stock sealed dampers that come with the forks, but if the AVY is your thing we have no problem.

    Darren
    Darren, I thought I read somewhere that the ASC-3 would only be available for some Pike model years? Is that true or will it be available for any Pike?

  189. #189
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    Hi all. This thread is sure poisonous. And the kit pure potent poison.

    To Darren and all, before I pull the trigger, would like to get reviews of this kit on a 2017 Fox 36 FIT4 with Andreani piston kit for the damper side.

    My Fox 36 currently has MRP Ramp Control (separate + & - chambers) on the air spring side. Frankly, I feel the MRP separate air chambers did the trick instead of the Andreani kit, even though I opted for the softer settings shims. The feeling now is closer to my benchmark feel on my DH fork, the Bos Idylle RaRe air, just a lil bit less sensitive and smooth through small bumps.

    Based on this experience, I feel an upgrade in the spring side would be a noticeable and worthwhile change instead of going for the damper tuning first. (Yea, fell for the Ohlins piston thingy in the Andreani kit)

    Where I ride is usually very pedally, lots of technical switchback uphills, very wet and roots.

    Current happy settings with almost bottom out are:
    Fork positive 55psi, negative 65psi, MRP ramp 0, LSC 3 clicks from zero, open, rebound 5 from slowest, front tyre 15psi, rider weight 81kg (178lb).

    Cheers.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by saucerboy View Post
    Darren, I thought I read somewhere that the ASC-3 would only be available for some Pike model years? Is that true or will it be available for any Pike?
    It will be available for all models, although there will be multiple kits to address the difference in top cap thread pitch.

    Hi all. This thread is sure poisonous. And the kit pure potent poison.

    To Darren and all, before I pull the trigger, would like to get reviews of this kit on a 2017 Fox 36 FIT4 with Andreani piston kit for the damper side.

    My Fox 36 currently has MRP Ramp Control (separate + & - chambers) on the air spring side. Frankly, I feel the MRP separate air chambers did the trick instead of the Andreani kit, even though I opted for the softer settings shims. The feeling now is closer to my benchmark feel on my DH fork, the Bos Idylle RaRe air, just a lil bit less sensitive and smooth through small bumps.

    Based on this experience, I feel an upgrade in the spring side would be a noticeable and worthwhile change instead of going for the damper tuning first. (Yea, fell for the Ohlins piston thingy in the Andreani kit)

    Where I ride is usually very pedally, lots of technical switchback uphills, very wet and roots.

    Current happy settings with almost bottom out are:
    Fork positive 55psi, negative 65psi, MRP ramp 0, LSC 3 clicks from zero, open, rebound 5 from slowest, front tyre 15psi, rider weight 81kg (178lb).
    I've said this before....Damper tuning and modifications are a nice upgrade, but nowhere near the performance increase that you wold see after installing the ACS3 kit as even stock modern day dampers are quite good.

    Darren

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiril View Post
    Hi all. This thread is sure poisonous. And the kit pure potent poison.

    To Darren and all, before I pull the trigger, would like to get reviews of this kit on a 2017 Fox 36 FIT4 with Andreani piston kit for the damper side.

    My Fox 36 currently has MRP Ramp Control (separate + & - chambers) on the air spring side. Frankly, I feel the MRP separate air chambers did the trick instead of the Andreani kit, even though I opted for the softer settings shims. The feeling now is closer to my benchmark feel on my DH fork, the Bos Idylle RaRe air, just a lil bit less sensitive and smooth through small bumps.

    Based on this experience, I feel an upgrade in the spring side would be a noticeable and worthwhile change instead of going for the damper tuning first. (Yea, fell for the Ohlins piston thingy in the Andreani kit)

    Where I ride is usually very pedally, lots of technical switchback uphills, very wet and roots.

    Current happy settings with almost bottom out are:
    Fork positive 55psi, negative 65psi, MRP ramp 0, LSC 3 clicks from zero, open, rebound 5 from slowest, front tyre 15psi, rider weight 81kg (178lb).

    Cheers.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    Ive got a BOS Idylle rare FCV on the big bike and I think the 36 with stock damper and the acs-3 blows it out of the water.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    I run a 140 and it is good. Did he give you specific reasons as why it's not recommended? Do you run 0 tokens?
    ok, I have found the email from Craig: "Luftkappe takes up some of the actual positive volume, its like adding 1-1/2 tokens. so with a 160mm set up the added benefit for the negative spring affect is diminishing by the increased progression of the positive spring. The ideal situation is at 150mm, where 1 token is required. At 120mm the negative spring begins to have too much affect and makes the first half of the stroke too soft. We cannot make valving adjustments that will help when the spring is too soft or too progressive, springs are position sensitive and the valving is speed sensitive. The most linear spring rate that the air spring can produce is the best possible scenerio for the cartridge."

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    you're getting 4+ inches of travel, out of a 6"+ fork, after a $400 upgrade, & you're OK w/ that?
    I never set my fork up by sag, always by feel and the o-ring after a hard ride. Just too many variables. I like to have about 1"-1.5" of reserve just in case. As long as I am getting quality suspension up to that point I'm all good. I do bottom out once in a while, but that is what the reserve is for.

    Just ordered my ACS-3 kit. I was planning on doing it soon, but couldn't pass on the free shipping.
    Sweet Jesus don't let the judge release me, what if she's a Zombie or a Dracula and tries to f&*king eat me.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    ok, I have found the email from Craig: "Luftkappe takes up some of the actual positive volume, its like adding 1-1/2 tokens. so with a 160mm set up the added benefit for the negative spring affect is diminishing by the increased progression of the positive spring. The ideal situation is at 150mm, where 1 token is required. At 120mm the negative spring begins to have too much affect and makes the first half of the stroke too soft. We cannot make valving adjustments that will help when the spring is too soft or too progressive, springs are position sensitive and the valving is speed sensitive. The most linear spring rate that the air spring can produce is the best possible scenerio for the cartridge."

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
    That kind of makes sense to me, I had a pike 150 on my bronson, it had a fast damper upgrade on it, and I updated to both 160 and luftkappe at the same time.
    Not sure if this was a great move as I did not get a direct comparison.
    I did feel that it worked well in all my local trails which are more natural technical and very rocky, but in the alps on breaking bumps it was awful.
    I concluded it was the extra progression which just did not suit my light weight.
    I am not sure now whether to get rid of the luftkappe on the 160, or after reading a lot about this coil kit, just go for that as a upgrade.
    The one thing about the luftkappe is with the larger negative chamber. The fork sags lower and my 160 has more of the same A to C as a 150, but I am also a inch away from full travel.

    I guess this coil kit is ok for a 2014 rct3?


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  195. #195
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    so, i guess you're saying you wouldn't be happy w/ 2" of unused travel after a hard ride?
    Quote Originally Posted by CUP-TON View Post
    I never set my fork up by sag, always by feel and the o-ring after a hard ride. Just too many variables. I like to have about 1"-1.5" of reserve just in case. As long as I am getting quality suspension up to that point I'm all good. I do bottom out once in a while, but that is what the reserve is for.

    Just ordered my ACS-3 kit. I was planning on doing it soon, but couldn't pass on the free shipping.
    breezy shade

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    As for the damper, we prefer the stock sealed dampers that come with the forks, but if the AVY is your thing we have no problem.

    Darren
    The AVY cart is one of the most transformational upgrades I've ever made to my mountain bikes. The stock Pike cartridge was horrible, sticky, harsh, overly contrived garbage. The AVY operates incredibly smoothly, enables buttery small bump compliance, fantastic mid stroke with zero wallow or odd unpredictable behaviour. It also does not require me to mail it away for service as its as simple as dumping the old oil and refilling, a 5 minute exercise as worst. Frankly from an MTB perspective sealed cartridge systems are marketing baloney. The people that may benefit from their supposed advantages make up less than 1% of the riding population if that.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    so, i guess you're saying you wouldn't be happy w/ 2" of unused travel after a hard ride?
    2" is a bit too much reserve for me. Although it depends on the ride. I opted for a stiffer spring in the kit as most of my rides include a lot of drops and rock gardens. But I may buy a softer spring for more XC oriented rides.
    Sweet Jesus don't let the judge release me, what if she's a Zombie or a Dracula and tries to f&*king eat me.

  198. #198
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    that's how i would be looking at it.
    you might want to pay attention to "blcman's " posts on this thread coming up. he ordered a lesser rate spring for that reason, or at least to compare the two
    Quote Originally Posted by CUP-TON View Post
    2" is a bit too much reserve for me. Although it depends on the ride. I opted for a stiffer spring in the kit as most of my rides include a lot of drops and rock gardens. But I may buy a softer spring for more XC oriented rides.
    breezy shade

  199. #199
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    My green spring is silent but I just put in a black and itís clicking. Any suggestions to get rid of the noise?

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    The AVY cart is one of the most transformational upgrades I've ever made to my mountain bikes. The stock Pike cartridge was horrible, sticky, harsh, overly contrived garbage. The AVY operates incredibly smoothly, enables buttery small bump compliance, fantastic mid stroke with zero wallow or odd unpredictable behaviour. It also does not require me to mail it away for service as its as simple as dumping the old oil and refilling, a 5 minute exercise as worst. Frankly from an MTB perspective sealed cartridge systems are marketing baloney. The people that may benefit from their supposed advantages make up less than 1% of the riding population if that.

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