Pop goes the Nixon.... Second time!!!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Pop goes the Nixon.... Second time!!!!

    I sent my nixon in for warantee this spring because it was leaking from the IT into the leg and popped the seals, and it's done it again! It never really felt right back from warranty, and the guy at manitou was sure that it was just me not pushing the IT as I put air into the spring side. I've got this sneaking suspicion that "Bluntman" i'll call him in the warranty service (I talked to him over the phone) in montreal just pushed my seals back into the leg and got back to satisfying his munchies. This time I put some air into the leg with the seals popped out and pressed the IT lever.... psssssssssssss through the bushings and out the seal hole and the pressure on the pump goes down. The side that the air valve feeds into seems good, and the seal from one side of the IT to the oter is good, just the one on the other side leaks where the air is let when you push the golden spoon. Same thing that happend last time. So, any of you guys tackle your IT yourself? I really don't feel like sending the fork back to montreal - at this point I'm confident that the Canadian warranty department is not the best place to leave a fork, or a bag of chips sitting around.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHyde
    I really don't feel like sending the fork back to montreal - at this point I'm confident that the Canadian warranty department is not the best place to leave a fork, or a bag of chips sitting around.
    Wish I could say the American warrenty department was any different.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHyde
    .......<b>or a bag of chips sitting around.</b>
    Dude, that line was unnecessary and insulting. You are insinuating and accusing someone of illegal activity without proof.

    But ya was sort of funny

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHyde
    I sent my nixon in for warantee this spring because it was leaking from the IT into the leg and popped the seals, and it's done it again! It never really felt right back from warranty, and the guy at manitou was sure that it was just me not pushing the IT as I put air into the spring side. I've got this sneaking suspicion that "Bluntman" i'll call him in the warranty service (I talked to him over the phone) in montreal just pushed my seals back into the leg and got back to satisfying his munchies. This time I put some air into the leg with the seals popped out and pressed the IT lever.... psssssssssssss through the bushings and out the seal hole and the pressure on the pump goes down. The side that the air valve feeds into seems good, and the seal from one side of the IT to the oter is good, just the one on the other side leaks where the air is let when you push the golden spoon. Same thing that happend last time. So, any of you guys tackle your IT yourself? I really don't feel like sending the fork back to montreal - at this point I'm confident that the Canadian warranty department is not the best place to leave a fork, or a bag of chips sitting around.
    Have you phoned Manitou directly and discussed this with them? You SHOULD! I don't know how it works exactly, but everytime I hear about a fork or shock (from Manitou or Fox) going for warranty within Canada it never comes back working the same.

    Where are you located?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Have you phoned Manitou directly and discussed this with them? You SHOULD! I don't know how it works exactly, but everytime I hear about a fork or shock (from Manitou or Fox) going for warranty within Canada it never comes back working the same.

    Where are you located?
    I'll second that. I had no end of problems with the Manitou agents when I lived in Switzerland. I spoke to Manitou and they sorted it out, to the extent of sending me a replacement fork. When I had warranty problems in the USA they sent a RA to my LBS and paid the shipping. I've only got good things to say about their service.

    Ronnie.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHyde
    I'm confident that the Canadian warranty department is not the best place to leave a fork, or a bag of chips sitting around.
    Are you insinuating Canadians are chip eaterrs?
    Are you insinuating Canadians are simply not responsible enough to handle waranties properly?
    What's your point here??
    I really would like to know being I'm Canadian and friggin proud of it
    Last edited by wickerman1; 07-17-2006 at 09:19 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickerman1
    Are you insinuating Canadians are chip eaterrs?
    Are you insinuating Canadians are simply not responsible enough to handle waranties properly?
    What's your point here??
    I really would like to know being I'm Canadian and friggin proud of it
    Seeing as how I responded to him with a seemingly worse comment should I retalliate now or wait for you to quote me, too?


    Hey, MrHyde, I think we found your chip eater.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Seeing as how I responded to him with a seemingly worse comment should I retalliate now or wait for you to quote me, too?


    Hey, MrHyde, I think we found your chip eater.
    past chip eater lol don't anymore. haven't for 3 years actually. I look at them and gain weight.
    No its just that the way he wrote it, it seems like Canadians are somewhat idiots.
    And besides , you live i nToronto, you have the right to be pissed
    I'm originaly from BArrie, but been in BC for the past three years and have no intention of going back to Ontarihole.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHyde
    I sent my nixon in for warantee this spring because it was leaking from the IT into the leg and popped the seals, and it's done it again! It never really felt right back from warranty, and the guy at manitou was sure that it was just me not pushing the IT as I put air into the spring side. I've got this sneaking suspicion that "Bluntman" i'll call him in the warranty service (I talked to him over the phone) in montreal just pushed my seals back into the leg and got back to satisfying his munchies. This time I put some air into the leg with the seals popped out and pressed the IT lever.... psssssssssssss through the bushings and out the seal hole and the pressure on the pump goes down. The side that the air valve feeds into seems good, and the seal from one side of the IT to the oter is good, just the one on the other side leaks where the air is let when you push the golden spoon. Same thing that happend last time. So, any of you guys tackle your IT yourself? I really don't feel like sending the fork back to montreal - at this point I'm confident that the Canadian warranty department is not the best place to leave a fork, or a bag of chips sitting around.
    The seal popping out on the IT side happened to me and I was told by the dealer guy that it is common problem with other Manitou forks, too (Black, Sherman and others). I was suggested to use little bit of glue to keep it in the recess. It worked fine.
    Lately, I changed my seal and the wipe to the ones provided by Enduroforkseals.com.
    They work great but wiper on the IT side popped out today since it was really hot and the air in the fork must have been inflated more. I emailed Chris and he mentioned that Manitou seems to have inconsistant recess sizes so he suggested to use cement. I put some glue and put it back on without the air in the fork and I'm going to leave it overnight. I will tell you the result in several days later.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by StabbedDawg
    Manitou seems to have inconsistant recess sizes so he suggested to use cement. I put some glue and put it back on without the air in the fork and I'm going to leave it overnight. .
    Unbelievable!

    Buy a product, jury rig it to make it work.

  11. #11
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    That hapened also to my Nixon fork, and also in the IT leg
    I think this is caused by some air leaked from the internal seal, so the presure rises on the leg and then makes the seal pop in a hard landing or when shortening travel

    anyway I disasembled the IT leg/piston (from the downside, it's easy)
    and aplied some grease in the rod and seal.
    then changed the main seals with enduroseals

    that solved the problem and the fork works smoother

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by STS
    That hapened also to my Nixon fork, and also in the IT leg
    I think this is caused by some air leaked from the internal seal, so the presure rises on the leg and then makes the seal pop in a hard landing or when shortening travel

    anyway I disasembled the IT leg/piston (from the downside, it's easy)
    and aplied some grease in the rod and seal.
    then changed the main seals with enduroseals

    that solved the problem and the fork works smoother
    Ah, I was wondering how I was getting more air pressure. Maybe I was too lazy the last time I opened it up and didn't aply enough grease.

  13. #13
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    Gawd!

    I opened up the IT and checked everything, quadseals are okay, everything seems to be fine, cleaned up the recess of the wiper/seal and everything, put them together and now, I can't stop it from popping! I found that the recess on the IT side IS looser than the other side because the wiper which is loose on the IT side is not loose on the other side.
    What do you guys think the best to do for this? What would be the best glue or something similar from popping?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by StabbedDawg
    I opened up the IT and checked everything, quadseals are okay, everything seems to be fine, cleaned up the recess of the wiper/seal and everything, put them together and now, I can't stop it from popping! I found that the recess on the IT side IS looser than the other side because the wiper which is loose on the IT side is not loose on the other side.
    What do you guys think the best to do for this? What would be the best glue or something similar from popping?
    Use some RTV sealant, works like a charm. It's also easier to take things apart and not damage parts that you may want to re-use.

    You can find it at your local auto parts store or Walmart.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies. :D

  15. #15
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    Andrew, Chris from Enduroforkseals recommended that to me, too. I probably have to go to a larger bikeshop, auto parts shops didn' have it.
    Now the stock wiper/seal is popping too but I wonder if 2005 nixon wiper/seal is made little smaller, because the wiper came with my 06 nixon was fine with just a touch of glue. Now keep popping.... I found the RTV sealant on a webshop so it should be coming in soon.

  16. #16
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    It seems that my problem is what STS described, the air pressure in the outer leg gets higher upon the travel is set short. I checked the inside of IT assembly and they seemed be fine, oil is measured exactly. Can't figure it out.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by StabbedDawg
    It seems that my problem is what STS described, the air pressure in the outer leg gets higher upon the travel is set short. I checked the inside of IT assembly and they seemed be fine, oil is measured exactly. Can't figure it out.
    Hang in there and wait untill you get some RTV (that's freaky-strange that auto parts stores didn't have any). See what happens when you put that on.

    I had an issue with my '05 Minute 1:00. No IT, but RTWD with the coil main spring. When I installed the Enduro seals I too had an issue with a popping seal (left leg, or non-SPV side). The issue was that the lowers were machined inconsistently where the bores are to seat the seals (verified with vernier caliper). This meant that the seals popped out, but when the fork was extending. Due to the seals being a firm ..... seal (sorry, unavoidable) the poor tolerance on Manitou's part meant the one seal wouldn't stay in the bore. One application of RTV and it was immediately solved for the remainder of my using the fork (now sold). I didn't even have to take the fork apart - I was just careful with the application of the RTV.

    Chris has had a helluva time with this - last I heard we were discussing the possibility of the mold being changed to add some small ribs to the outer face of the seals to help take up the gap and have less end user problems. I don't know what ever came of this with the 30mm stanchion seals, but I could have sworn the 32mm seals for my Nixon had something like this on them.

    What about yours? Do you remember there being any ribs on the outer/lower face of the seals (they travel circularly, around the seal)? Furthermore, have you watched the seals closely to make sure they are popping when the fork is being compressed, rather than extended? If they pop when it's being compressed then it's air leaking from the IT, despite the seals looking good (possible machining tolerance meaning the seals might look perfect, but not seal worth crap). If the seals pop when the fork is extending then it's the bores for the seals (again, RTV to the rescue).

    Also worth looking in to - if you're loosing air past the IT seals, then you should be able to verify this by checking the air pressure before and after the seal popping. Have you done so? If not that should be your first step in diagnosing if it's the IT assembly or not.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

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  18. #18
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    Now it's working beautifully

    Andrew, thanks for all of the info.

    I opened it up today again and went from scratch then I found out that probably the quadseal in side of lower IT assembly was probably damaged. So most likely, the IT air was leaking into the outer leg then making the seal to pop out.

    When this starts to happen, I would pump air to the main valve then only 100PSI would be enough for my weight (I'm 155lbs), so it doesn't make sense. Also it results in stiffer to adjust the travel with IT, you would have to push harder than normal. So, maybe the oil got into the inside of IT assembly, or air was leaking bad. Also, under this condition, the fork was not as plush. LIke STS mentioned, it popped out when I use IT and make it short travel, then pushing it would make the seal pop out. So, it was maybe my bad in reassembling so the oil got into the IT assembly, or I had a bad quad seal for the bottom on the IT assembly (inside of the threaded cap of that bottom IT assembly which attaches the bottom of the inner leg). Luckily, Bobby from Manitou sent me the spare IT assembly before, so I changed some of the suspecious parts and now it is all working!!

    Chris is generously sending me another seal kit, so when it arrives, I would first install the Enduro seals and wipers without the sealant (to just prove that Manitou and Enduro make their stuff right), and if I have problem then I would put the sealant.

    Now everything seems to be working really good, I realized how plush this fork is! But I started to have more pedal bob tho. I wonder little bit of oil inside of IT assembly gives you little bit of firmness (but oil would come out when you take some air out from the valve tho, it gets messy). Now I'm running about 140psi (85% of my weight shoudl be around 135psi but I don't want it to bottom out when I jump off some stuff), and with the red dial turned clockwise all the way seem to be good for me hacking around in town with my Nokian XXX tires.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by StabbedDawg
    Now everything seems to be working really good, I realized how plush this fork is! But I started to have more pedal bob tho. I wonder little bit of oil inside of IT assembly gives you little bit of firmness (but oil would come out when you take some air out from the valve tho, it gets messy). Now I'm running about 140psi (85% of my weight shoudl be around 135psi but I don't want it to bottom out when I jump off some stuff), and with the red dial turned clockwise all the way seem to be good for me hacking around in town with my Nokian XXX tires.
    It's what?!?!??!?! Plu .... plu ...... plush? A Minute?

    Okay, again, just to be sure - you know you should have between 40 - 100 psi (minimum and maximum, respectiveely) in the SPV chamber, right? That's on the right leg. If you find that you're experiencing too much bobbing then put in more air.

    IF oil did happen to get inside the IT assembly ..... actually, I don't think it would happen. The oil would have to fight the air pressure inside the assembly and I don't see oil at atmospheric pressure winning a fight against air at 100+ psi. Again, if the assembly was leaking you'd notice it by checking the pressure before and after a ride. You'd also notice your sag would increase (fork would drop into the lowers more).

    Well, for what it's worth, IF oil did get into the assembly it would make itself known to you by increasing the internal pressure/decreasing volume, but it would only be realized in the last portion of the fork's stroke, much like turning in/down the SPV volume adjuster. Personally, I don't see it happening, but life is strange sometimes.

    Your numbers seem strange though. Cranked the SPV volume, 140 psi in the main and you weigh 155. Something doesn't seem to add up. Have you checked the damper's oil level at all?


    Agreed - Chris at Enduro ROCKS!!!!! That reminds me ..... need to order more stuff from him. CHHHHRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies. :D

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    It's what?!?!??!?! Plu .... plu ...... plush? A Minute?

    Okay, again, just to be sure - you know you should have between 40 - 100 psi (minimum and maximum, respectiveely) in the SPV chamber, right? That's on the right leg. If you find that you're experiencing too much bobbing then put in more air.

    IF oil did happen to get inside the IT assembly ..... actually, I don't think it would happen. The oil would have to fight the air pressure inside the assembly and I don't see oil at atmospheric pressure winning a fight against air at 100+ psi. Again, if the assembly was leaking you'd notice it by checking the pressure before and after a ride. You'd also notice your sag would increase (fork would drop into the lowers more).

    Well, for what it's worth, IF oil did get into the assembly it would make itself known to you by increasing the internal pressure/decreasing volume, but it would only be realized in the last portion of the fork's stroke, much like turning in/down the SPV volume adjuster. Personally, I don't see it happening, but life is strange sometimes.

    Your numbers seem strange though. Cranked the SPV volume, 140 psi in the main and you weigh 155. Something doesn't seem to add up. Have you checked the damper's oil level at all?


    Agreed - Chris at Enduro ROCKS!!!!! That reminds me ..... need to order more stuff from him. CHHHHRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!
    No, mine is NIxon Platinum Intrinsic. So, no SPV, it's Intrinsic. Intrinsic is different from regular SPV, so the bobbing can't be eliminated totally.

    I was feeling getting by at 100psi or 90psi was funny. NIxon Platinum Intrinsic should be set from 65 to 85% of my weight so, it shouldn't be strange I think.

  21. #21
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    Ask them to replace the IT with the RTWD coil spring system.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  22. #22
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    That is pretty much what I did and it is working now.

  23. #23
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    The answer is Marzocchi! I have a nice Marathon S 105mm sitting in my garage.......
    Alex

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexk
    The answer is Marzocchi! I have a nice Marathon S 105mm sitting in my garage.......
    I have Z150FR SL, too, but nothing is as light as Nixon Platinum Intrinsic, has travel adjust, has platform damping AND bottom out resistance. Also, although Nixon has 145mm travel, the length under the crown is made short, so 145mm being little long for my Intense 5.5 frame, it compensates well. I'm glad that I figured out the problem and now it is working beautifully.

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