Pike: 4 years later- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Pike: 4 years later

    While searching for some other info, I came across a thread from over 4 years ago regarding the relatively new Pike. It was interesting to see peoples' takes on the "new" RS.

    Some insisting that this was the beginning of the rebirth of RS as a serious condender with Marz and Fox, others saying there is no way RS is going to be able to overcome it's terrible past forks. It is interesting to read a debate when you know what the answers turns out to be.

    Also, there were people saying what I was thinking at the time; that no matter how good people say this fork is, it was really hard to get past the Rock Shox name on it.

    Someone else predicted that this fork, at the time about half the cost of comparable Fox forks, would prove to be in the same league, and then the prices would go up once they earned a good reputation. That was a pretty sharp insight. I bought my Pike Coil shortly after that thread, and sure enough within a year or two the prices went up a LOT.
    Last edited by kapusta; 06-25-2009 at 11:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    While searching for some other info, I came across a thread from over 4 years ago regarding the relatively new Pike. It was interesting to see peoples' takes on the "new" RS.

    Some insisting that this was the beginning of the rebirth of RS as a serious condender with Marz and Fox, others saying there is no way RS is going to be able to overcome it's terrible past forks. It is interesting to read a debate when you know what the answers turns out to be.

    Also, there were people saying what I was thinking at the time that no matter how good people say this fork is, it was really hard to get past the Rock Shox name on it.

    Someone else predicted that these fork, at the time about half the cost of comparable Fox forks, would prove to be in the same league, and then the prices would go up once they earned a good reputation. That was a pretty sharp insight. I bought my Pike Coil shortly after that thread, and sure enough within a year or two the prices went up a LOT.
    Sounds like a good read. Do you still have the link?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimk
    Sounds like a good read. Do you still have the link?
    No, sorry. I did not mark it.

  4. #4
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    Yea I remember when you could pick up a new pike for like $350, now they are 6-800. I wonder if marzocchi will drop their prices like that to get back on top. I don't think so, but one can hope.

  5. #5
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    You could have dumped me into the doubters camp - swore off RS for good and was very happy with Fox products. Then a buddy, who's a sponsored rider, keeps harping that the Boxxer is the fork to have - shaaaa! Long story short... it started with a Boxxer Team, then a Pike for my trail bike and now a Lyrik on my FR bike. The only Fox fork I have left is the Talas is on my g-friend's bike, LOL!

    Never say never,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystagg
    Yea I remember when you could pick up a new pike for like $350, now they are 6-800. I wonder if marzocchi will drop their prices like that to get back on top. I don't think so, but one can hope.
    Right now I don't have a lot of hope for Marzocchi. Their forks are too heavy, have quality control issues, and are still married to their TST damper technology. The TST just has a long history of breaking or sucking.

    If Marzocchi lightens up their forks, puts the RC3 in everything (and adds a lock out for their XC forks), and simply stops making new versions of everything for a year and two and fixes what they have, I think they could bounce back really strong.

  7. #7
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    definitely one of rockshox's greatest forks the pike.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Right now I don't have a lot of hope for Marzocchi. Their forks are too heavy, have quality control issues, and are still married to their TST damper technology. The TST just has a long history of breaking or sucking.

    If Marzocchi lightens up their forks, puts the RC3 in everything (and adds a lock out for their XC forks), and simply stops making new versions of everything for a year and two and fixes what they have, I think they could bounce back really strong.
    Call me image based, but I also really, really hate the look of their current decals.

    Anyways, I agree about that bit about model years.
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  9. #9
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    This thread is worthless without a link

    I was on one of the original coil pikes early on. I could tell RS was back. It was light, stiff, and inexpensive. I jumped onto a z1 franken fork for about a year, but then came right back to a Pike air and a revelation air. Sure, they weren't as solid feeling as the z1 but in all honesty I rarely hammered it so carrying the extra weight wasn't necessary. Now DC dh forks are popping up that weigh in about the same as my Z1.

    I can remember recommending the Pike back in the days when Rockshox was still a four letter word around here
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  10. #10
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    Here's a question:

    Has Rock Shox surpassed Fox in terms of quality and engineering?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    This thread is worthless without a link
    It's not really that thread in particular that is all that interesting, I think anyone around back then interested in the matter remembers how hard it was to believe RS had put out a great product. Two, actually, with the Reba. I was a serious doubter, and thought this "motion control" thing was just the latest re-branding of whatever crap they were already making. It was definitely filed under "Yawn, who cares?"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Here's a question:

    Has Rock Shox surpassed Fox in terms of quality and engineering?
    I think it is a hard comparison. Fox only makes high end forks, but RS makes all levels. So you have to compare Fox with similarly priced RS products.

    I don't think one can be given an overall win over the other.

  13. #13
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    I think it's assumed we'd be comparing like products.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    I think it's assumed we'd be comparing like products.
    I don't think there is an answer that applies across all fork comparisons.

    I'll speak to the one I know well: I'd take a Pike Coil over a Fox Vanilla fork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Here's a question:

    Has Rock Shox surpassed Fox in terms of quality and engineering?
    That's a tough one, but I definitely think that Fox wins in the quality department. Engineering? Not too sure, they all feel like good forks to me. Though, I think the RS advantage is the value per dollar, but since their prices went up, not too sure now.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    It's not really that thread in particular that is all that interesting, I think anyone around back then interested in the matter remembers how hard it was to believe RS had put out a great product. Two, actually, with the Reba. I was a serious doubter, and thought this "motion control" thing was just the latest re-branding of whatever crap they were already making. It was definitely filed under "Yawn, who cares?"
    Yeah, I think I just got to test ride early on since at the point of introduction I was still working part time in shops. I was instantly enamored with the feel, fit & finish, as well as a 20mm fork that was light too. I think anyone who actually could ride and see the forks even early on would not have been too quick to dismiss. Once they lasted out the first season under SRAM people started to come back around.

    I was just ribbing you on the thread. Honestly it piqued my curiosity and I wanted to read it
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimk
    That's a tough one, but I definitely think that Fox wins in the quality department. Engineering? Not too sure, they all feel like good forks to me. Though, I think the RS advantage is the value per dollar, but since their prices went up, not too sure now.
    Between Fox and Rockshox it is a toss up and boils down to preference and desired features. Fox builds some complex precision dampers (look at a talas service guide if you don't believe me ). Rockshox on the other hand has gone with looser tolerances, rubber and plastic internals, and continued to make products that are user serviceable. All the way around Fox seems more focused on the details and refinement of their products. So are precision components better? Did more engineering go into fine widgets or into the stuff that is cheaper to fabricate.

    One of my friends who worked for fox liked to refer to Fox as a Ferrari and Rockshox as a Civic. Honestly he may not have been to far off base. To this day I still prefer my trusty civic to his tempermental ferrari
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  18. #18
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    Purchased a Pike Dual air in 07' and it loved the adjustability and overall ride. Was the marriage blissfull - No. Right out of the box the disc tabs were incorrectly faced from the factory - warranted lowers. Half a season and the compression cartridge leaks - warranted cartridge. One season pos. air migrating into neg. - warranted air spring assembly. Are these isolated issues - No very common.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Between Fox and Rockshox it is a toss up and boils down to preference and desired features. Fox builds some complex precision dampers (look at a talas service guide if you don't believe me ). Rockshox on the other hand has gone with looser tolerances, rubber and plastic internals, and continued to make products that are user serviceable. All the way around Fox seems more focused on the details and refinement of their products. So are precision components better? Did more engineering go into fine widgets or into the stuff that is cheaper to fabricate.

    One of my friends who worked for fox liked to refer to Fox as a Ferrari and Rockshox as a Civic. Honestly he may not have been to far off base. To this day I still prefer my trusty civic to his tempermental ferrari
    Yeah, I kind of like that comparison. Fox gets marks for the fine machining compared to RS. Like you said, fox will use some machined aluminum where RS will use plastic, or something not quite as refined. when looking at the high end products, I think their actual track records in terms of dependability are in the same ball park. Thankfully, RS replaced that pathetic plastic u-turn cap with metal.

    I think it is ridiculous that Fox has kept it's head in the sand so long on the 20mm axle standard for fork2 under 150mm. RS was way ahead of Fox on that one, and with this QR15 BS, it look like they will stay that way for quite some time.

    As far as their damping systems on the top-end forks, it's hard to say. I think the MoCo system is just brilliant in it's simplicity and tuning capabilities. Unfortunately, RS never put out any tuning guides to let people know how to really get the most out of it, and a lot of people using the "true" MoCo units (with the adjustable floodgate) are not getting anywhere near the performance they could be getting. If you are not ready to really learn how it works and tinker with it, you are probably better of with a Fox that works great right out of the box.

    One drawback to the forks like the Reba, Pike, and Rev compared to the equivalent Fox forks is the rebound circuit. The PUSH mod, giving what I assume is a shimmed, speed sensitive rebound circuit really makes a big difference. I think it is interesting that they don't do anything to the compression (MoCo) unit. I do notice that some higher end RS forks are coming with a speed sensitive rebound. At the same time Fox looks like they are making some improvements for the coming year, so it sounds like they are keeping up with eachother well.

    I think what I really appreciate about RS is how they make simple things work very well. MoCo, while not terribly simple to master, is rather simple in design, and easy to service. Heck, I think it is under $50 to replace, and it is as easy as replacing a bolt. The u-turn coil is a dead simple concept, which, IMO, works great. I like coil, and I want adjustable travel, here you go.

    I also applaud RS for putting out a very affordable fork that does not suck: The Tora 318. A friend of mine bought the coil version for ~$250, and it is a smooth, solid, stiff fork with adjustable travel and pretty good dampers with rebound and compression adjustments, as well as a lockout.
    Last edited by kapusta; 06-26-2009 at 02:49 PM.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Here's a question:

    Has Rock Shox surpassed Fox in terms of quality and engineering?
    It depends...

    ...want to talk about stanchions and how long they last?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    It depends...

    ...want to talk about stanchions and how long they last?
    Don't need to tell me. I've had to replace the uppers on my Float 32 due to worn stanchions, not to mention their rubbish seals.

    So you have Fox with all the gorgeous machined bits inside, but with paper stanchions and seals which they refuse to fix.

    On the other hand you have Rock Shox with plastic in places, but with proper stanchions and seals good enough PUSH used them.

    Personally, my next fork will be a Rock Shox.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    One of my friends who worked for fox liked to refer to Fox as a Ferrari and Rockshox as a Civic. Honestly he may not have been to far off base. To this day I still prefer my trusty civic to his tempermental ferrari
    That's a pretty funny, and accurate analogy actually. But my "Ferrari" (Vanilla RLC), hasn't been tempermental at all. I've ridden it into the ground for about a year, and has yet to be serviced.

    Still, I think that RS is somewhat overpriced.

    I'm about to build my Heckler with a Pike 454 up-front, will see how it compares to the Vanilla on my Chameleon.
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