Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack

    Hokay so I've been trying to use the Domain 318 as a trail fork ..... (It was sold as a FR fork for hucking and such, but I didn't know that it was set up to be so specific at that time... This fork prefers to take in the bigger hits, so landing hard is great from heights, but small bump sensitivity is terrible...)

    Anyways..... I can't stand the spiking on the washboard stutter sections!!! The last overseas trail in Malaysia I went to was the last straw... And I don't want to buy another fork.... So it's down to tinkering time....

    Disclaimer time: I hold no responsibility to those who wish to venture forth as I have....

    So here's some pics and instructions to explain how to access your "speedstack" in the Domain 318 Motion Control Damper....

    I only started taking pictures after taking out the relevant item that needs to be tinkered with, so I will start with words first for taking out the MOCO damper.

    Before doing anything, Prepare a Container to put keep all those tiny parts!!! And line your floor with newspapers or whatever coz it's gonna get messy....

    1. The MOCO compression damper cartridge is located at the top of the right leg, just get the small shiny allen bolt out with your allen key (2.5mm if i remember correctly), and remove the blue compression knob and place them aside;

    2. Use a 24mm Socket Wrench and take out the MOCO damper assembly - there is an oil seal that will resist your effort to take out the damper so just keep twisting and pulling up on the damper and it will come out eventually; some oil will follow the damper when you pull it out, just let it drip back into the fork stanchion;

    3. Look at the damper assembly and use the blue compression knob you removed in the previous step to turn the nut on top of the damper - notice how the silver plate covers 3 holes as you turn the blue knob clockwise and vice-versa. This step is important for re-assembly later, as it gives you an idea of what's going on;

    4. At the sides near the bottom of the damper assembly, 180 degrees opposite each other, there are 2 simple snaps that you need to push in to get the lower section out using a flat tip screwdriver of the appropriate size. Notice that the 2 snaps are of different size, this will be relevant later again during assembly;

    5. So what you get is this (I've removed the lip oil seal so don't panic if yours doesn't look 100% similar, relax....) :


    6. Now comes the tricky part that I finally figured out last night to access the "shimstack": You need a flat tip screwdriver to pry (yes, pry) the silver plate from the black section as seen in the picture (They're held together by friction):


    7. And what you get is this:


    8. And wallah, you're looking at the "speedstack" as seen here:


    9. The next step needs an 8mm socket wrench to take out the nut that holds the "shimstack down":


    10. After separating the items in the "shimstack", you will realize that the "stack" is actually just one shim.... the other 2 shims just elevate the big shim slightly....


    So there you have it, have fun tinkering with the "speedstack" to whatever configuration you want!

    The important step in reassembling the lower section to the MOCO damper involves re-aligning the lower silver plate with the upper so that the 3 holes are not covered when the blue compression knob is at the most counterclockwise position. There is a key/groove that you will need to align properly in addition to the position of the 2 snaps (one is bigger than the other).... I did it by first setting the blue knob to the most counterclockwise position, then approximating the silver plate position from here before pressing it into the black key plastic bit, before finally snapping the lower section back into the MOCO damper assembly.

    Please check that the 3 damping holes I mentioned above are NOT covered when you turn the blue compression knob all the way counterclockwise before re-installing the MOCO assembly!!! And that the 3 holes are COVERED by the silver plate when the blue knob is all the way clockwise!!! Otherwise you will not have adjustable compression damping....

    After working on the MOCO IS, I noticed that the low speed and high speed compression damping circuits are not independent..... They're in series.... And one more thing is that I can't see any blowoff for the low speed compression damping at full lock (when the 3 holes are covered)... I'm wondering how the fork blows off when I lock it out... Anyone out there who could enlighten me?

    I'll be testing out the fork over the weekend most probably and update the change here.... Hope all goes well!
    Oh yes the oil in the fork was previously changed to 2.5wt also... Even so, it didn't solve the spiking/tracking problem so that's why i wanted to open up the speedstack....

    Have fun tinkering!
    Cheers~
    Mas
    Last edited by masnumata; 07-16-2009 at 10:29 AM.
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  2. #2
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    Very nice little how to, as a mod to sticky this in the Suspension setup thread, its great having all the info like this in one place..

    Well done!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    After working on the MOCO IS, I noticed that the low speed and high speed compression damping circuits are not independent..... They're in series.... And one more thing is that I can't see any blowoff for the low speed compression damping at full lock (when the 3 holes are covered)... I'm wondering how the fork blows off when I lock it out... Anyone out there who could enlighten me?
    The floodgate handles both blow off and access to the high speed damping circuit. It's essential a valve which sits between the low speed and high speed circuit. The force it takes to open it is what the floodgate adjustment does. When the low speed compression is in lock out mode, a hard impact will open the floodgate and allow the fork to blow off. When the fork isn't locked out, it defines the cut over point between the low speed and high speed circuit. When the oil flows too fast for the low speed circuit to handle, it builds pressure and forces the floodgate open, which in turn gives it access to the high speed circuit, the shim stack. The shim stack is single shim, because the floodgate itself is already providing an amount of high speed compression damping.

  4. #4
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    Nice one for cracking that open, Mas!

    And thanks for posting the pics!

    I would love to hear a ride report.

    P

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    The floodgate handles both blow off and access to the high speed damping circuit. It's essential a valve which sits between the low speed and high speed circuit. The force it takes to open it is what the floodgate adjustment does. When the low speed compression is in lock out mode, a hard impact will open the floodgate and allow the fork to blow off. When the fork isn't locked out, it defines the cut over point between the low speed and high speed circuit. When the oil flows too fast for the low speed circuit to handle, it builds pressure and forces the floodgate open, which in turn gives it access to the high speed circuit, the shim stack. The shim stack is single shim, because the floodgate itself is already providing an amount of high speed compression damping.
    Thanks for the explanation!
    It's still a little hard for me to picture the silver plate lifting up during high pressure in the compression stroke... But I guess that's the only way the damper could blow off eh?

    Thanks again! Appreciate it a lot~
    Cheers!
    Mas

    P.S:
    Mr. P: yes I'm hoping that removing the single large shim will improve the tracking of the fork for me.... Otherwise I might consider removing the floodgate portion completely as I really don't need so much compression damping in my type of riding.... Will get to try it out later today, I'm hoping for the best!
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  6. #6
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    Awful lot of plastic in there

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    Thanks for the explanation!
    It's still a little hard for me to picture the silver plate lifting up during high pressure in the compression stroke... But I guess that's the only way the damper could blow off eh?

    Thanks again! Appreciate it a lot~
    Cheers!
    Mas

    P.S:
    Mr. P: yes I'm hoping that removing the single large shim will improve the tracking of the fork for me.... Otherwise I might consider removing the floodgate portion completely as I really don't need so much compression damping in my type of riding.... Will get to try it out later today, I'm hoping for the best!
    The silver plate (low speed damping adjuster) doesn't lift, the plastic backer does.

    It's a common modification with Boxxer users to remove the speedstack completely and allow just the MoCo unit to provide high speed damping.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebronze
    Awful lot of plastic in there
    True, but the MoCo damper has proven highly effective and very durable.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    The silver plate (low speed damping adjuster) doesn't lift, the plastic backer does.

    It's a common modification with Boxxer users to remove the speedstack completely and allow just the MoCo unit to provide high speed damping.
    Ohhhhhh!!!!!!!! Now that makes so much sense!!!!
    Hahah oh man... Now why didn't I think of that.....

    Thanks again for the clarification!
    You just made my day!

    Cheers!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    Nice one for cracking that open, Mas!

    And thanks for posting the pics!

    I would love to hear a ride report.

    P
    The fork kicks ass!!!
    You can get an update here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=373364

    Cheers!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  11. #11
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    What an improvement

    I've had that MoCo out at least twice trying to figure out how to get it apart. I didn't have the nads to try to just pry it.

    Anyhow, I pulled the MoCo back out and pried it apart. 10 minutes later I had a plush fork. This thing rode like a dump truck before. Thank you!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromine
    I've had that MoCo out at least twice trying to figure out how to get it apart. I didn't have the nads to try to just pry it.

    Anyhow, I pulled the MoCo back out and pried it apart. 10 minutes later I had a plush fork. This thing rode like a dump truck before. Thank you!
    OOooo!!! Glad that another fellow rider has found this mod useful!

    Yeah I didn't figure out the prying part initially but I was really frustrated that day coz it was my 2nd attempt at opening up the sucker.... haha....

    Cheers!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  13. #13
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    Ok final update on the fork -- I think I can finally close the chapter on this one;

    Just went downstairs to ride around the neighborhood with 2 preload spacers and didn't like it, so changed back to 1 preload spacer in the fork.....

    And the magic is back. It's back!!!!!! I almost wanna cry out in happy tears coz the fork is perfect perfect perfect for me!!!..... Finally my quest for a fork that works to what I need is over.... (And most importantly at a low price-point hehe.... ~~~Symphonic music playing in the background~~~)

    It tracks the stairs so now I can launch off stairs without hesitation, it takes drops, i don't feel it bottoming out, but it still gets full travel, I still can't get over how such a simple mod makes the fork feel SOOOOOOOOO good...... *Grabs Hair and screams like some schoolgirl at a boy band concert~*

    Anyway don't take my word for it, try it; if you don't like it, put the shim back in - like what Bromine said, it's a quick in/out job and no one would even notice you went into the garage to do a quick fix haha....

    Until next time~
    Cheers!
    Mas (Enjoying the moment of glory..... With hands in the air.....)
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  14. #14
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    I'm stalking you here too.

  15. #15
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    Wow I'm feeling like a celebrity already..... I always knew someday I would make it....

    NOT!!!

    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  16. #16
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    I did this mod yesterday. It was quick and easy.

    Due to heavy rain I was only able to go for a short ride, but so far the fork feels great.
    It is smoother throughout it's travel, and the ending stroke compression doesn't ramp up as early or harshly.
    I did notice a tapping sound during compression that wasn't there before though. It sounds similar to the spring tapping the inside of the stanchion.
    Anyone else have this happen?

  17. #17
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    Nice write up. It could really help my friend who has been unable to get his domain to use its travel even at Northstar. Ill see if he still has the fork (I know he was trying to ditch it) and if he does well try this first.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    I did this mod yesterday. It was quick and easy.

    Due to heavy rain I was only able to go for a short ride, but so far the fork feels great.
    It is smoother throughout it's travel, and the ending stroke compression doesn't ramp up as early or harshly.
    I did notice a tapping sound during compression that wasn't there before though. It sounds similar to the spring tapping the inside of the stanchion.
    Anyone else have this happen?
    Sweet! Knew u would like the mod~

    Perhaps you could try stroking the fork after taking out the coil? If the clicking sound disappears, at least you'll know it's the spring....

    If it's still there when you stroke the fork without the coil, then maybe it's the damping side? The Maxle? Or the disc brake? Or cable hitting the frame? It would be good to have a friend help you pinpoint the sound....

    Mine doesn't have any clicking sound on compression..... Funny....

    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill
    Nice write up. It could really help my friend who has been unable to get his domain to use its travel even at Northstar. Ill see if he still has the fork (I know he was trying to ditch it) and if he does well try this first.
    Thanks!

    For your friend, I think it could be a combination of the 2 factors of:

    1. The recommended spring rate is actually a bit too high (Like in my case I'm supposed to run the Firm spring, but I'm running the stock spring and it feels right);

    2. The high speed shim really restricts travel as there is already a low/high speed compression damping circuit inside there..... The high speed shim is like a double Navy backup (2 is better than 1 mentality).... And it really kicks in when the fork shaft speed is high.... You will notice that it doesn't really kick at slow shaft speeds like when doing a controlled endo, or grabbing lots of brake at the end of the flight of stairs.... You will get full travel~

    Hope it works out~
    Cheers!
    Mas

    P.S: By the way I realized that the user doesn't even need to remove the fork from the bike to do this mod.... Coz you'll only need to take out the MOCO assembly using the allen key followed by the 24mm socket and let the oil drip back into the fork....
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    Sweet! Knew u would like the mod~

    Perhaps you could try stroking the fork after taking out the coil? If the clicking sound disappears, at least you'll know it's the spring....

    If it's still there when you stroke the fork without the coil, then maybe it's the damping side? The Maxle? Or the disc brake? Or cable hitting the frame? It would be good to have a friend help you pinpoint the sound....

    Mine doesn't have any clicking sound on compression..... Funny....

    Mas
    I got a few long rides in this weekend and it feels really good...

    EDIT
    With the top cap removed (U-Turn spring is attached to the topcap) the tapping is gone, so the noise is definitely coming from the spring.
    I added some Manitou Prep M grease but that still didn't quiet it down.

    I'm going to see if I can find some crush washers today and do a full rebuild to see if I can figure it out.
    Last edited by mcrumble69; 07-06-2009 at 07:04 AM.

  21. #21
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    Been wondering guys, reckon this mod will work with a 2010 boxxer race

    Is the shim stack actually tuneable? as in can you add more shims of different sizes to changing the damping effect? Or do size constraints mean you can only have the "one" shim in there?

    One more thing, without that shim masnumata, do you feel it bottoming out more and does the fork feel as if its blowing through its travel?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_M2R
    Been wondering guys, reckon this mod will work with a 2010 boxxer race

    Is the shim stack actually tuneable? as in can you add more shims of different sizes to changing the damping effect? Or do size constraints mean you can only have the "one" shim in there?
    Do no one ever read the whole thread? Yes, it can be done with the Boxxer and is a common modification for it.

    You can see from the pictures there's enough threads to add several more shims, the problem is you'll be going the wrong direction and adding more high speed damping when you want to be removing it. Don't forget the Motion Control itself is providing quite a bit of high speed damping.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Do no one ever read the whole thread? Yes, it can be done with the Boxxer and is a common modification for it.

    You can see from the pictures there's enough threads to add several more shims, the problem is you'll be going the wrong direction and adding more high speed damping when you want to be removing it. Don't forget the Motion Control itself is providing quite a bit of high speed damping.
    Actually i did read the thread mate
    I noticed that it was said it was a common mod to boxxers, but were they 2010 boxxers?

    I now that you will be getting more HSC by adding shims, i was more interested in perhaps changing that single Large to a smaller shim, perhaps meaning an increase in plushness, but still keeping a nice amount of HSC to prevent bottom out

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_M2R
    Actually i did read the thread mate
    I noticed that it was said it was a common mod to boxxers, but were they 2010 boxxers?

    I now that you will be getting more HSC by adding shims, i was more interested in perhaps changing that single Large to a smaller shim, perhaps meaning an increase in plushness, but still keeping a nice amount of HSC to prevent bottom out
    It doesn't matter what year Boxxer, the speedstack in general isn't a good idea mate. Read this thread over on Ridemonkey:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=166577

    The Motion Control unit is providing the HSC damping, while the speedstack, because it runs in series, is adding additional HSC damping on top of what you have. It's redundant and it's not needed.

  25. #25
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    I'm 155 lbs w/o gear and using only 120mm travel from my Domain 318 (180mm). it feels spiky at high speed compression damping.

    I'd like to make sure if I read this thread correctly before trying this mod tonight.
    Do I have to remove (or left) the silver plate when reassembling MOCO damper, right?

  26. #26
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    Ohhh yes, time for a play, thankyou!!!

  27. #27
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    is someone know if it is possible to install a Lyrik mission control DH cartridge on a 318 domain or at least th Lyirk MoCo IS that im presume is not shimmed like the domain???

    bye the way i've remove the large shim stack, try it this weekend

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_M2R
    Been wondering guys, reckon this mod will work with a 2010 boxxer race

    Is the shim stack actually tuneable? as in can you add more shims of different sizes to changing the damping effect? Or do size constraints mean you can only have the "one" shim in there?

    One more thing, without that shim masnumata, do you feel it bottoming out more and does the fork feel as if its blowing through its travel?
    Hiho~
    I've not seen the internals of the 2010 boxxers yet (and i don't think I ever will), but if it's using the speedstack and compression circuit in the Domain 318 I think it won't feel like a DH fork at all....

    In theory you could do any kind of shim setup, but I didn't coz I'm too lazy to experiment hee... For me the fork works perfectly without the large shim, so heck I just didn't continue any more work on the damping circuit~

    The fork doesn't get full travel during normal riding + drops... There's always like about 5mm more travel in reserve.... It only gets full travel when I grab a huge amount of front brake at the end of a flight of stairs when I am going down slowly... Kind of like a controlled endo but with huge load on the spring but at slow speed compression.... It doesn't bottom out.... That's the fantastic thing it gets full travel when you need it but it just doesn't bottom out!!!

    With that said, the downside is that the fork does dive more, and bobs more during out of saddle sprints.... But that can be controlled with the blue compression damping knob.... For me it's 4 - 5 clicks from minimum when I'm riding on the road... And even if I leave it at minimum compression damping, I've gotten used to the handling....

    If I want the fork to feel like it was before the modification, 5 to 6 clicks from minimum gives me the same effect as before the modification with minimum compression damping... And I get to hear the blow off when I do a hard pump on the fork when riding...

    I would say it becomes a true DH/Trail/Tracking fork after the modification... There's still ample high speed compression damping, but the fork sticks to the ground like the rear end of a V10.... It tracks that well.... I would only mess with the blue knob when I'm riding on the road... It's full open on the trail for me...

    But you wouldn't know unless you tried it eh? Words are just words haha....

    Cheers!
    Mas (Still grinning like an idiot~)
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOT
    I'm 155 lbs w/o gear and using only 120mm travel from my Domain 318 (180mm). it feels spiky at high speed compression damping.

    I'd like to make sure if I read this thread correctly before trying this mod tonight.
    Do I have to remove (or left) the silver plate when reassembling MOCO damper, right?
    Yes you have to place back the silver plate when reassembling the MOCO damper, because it controls the low speed compression damping~ You have to align it properly before placing it back, you will understand when you take out the damper for yourself and play with the blue knob to cover/ uncover the 3 damping holes with the silver plate....

    Just remove the large shim inside the "speedstack" and keep it somewhere in your stash~ It's your choice whether you want to reinstall the other 2 "shim" spacers and the nut holding the speedstack together.. it's not necessary, but I left mine back inside coz I was afraid I might lose it in the future haha....

    Have fun!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  30. #30
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    Ok I've had my play and I have done something wrong.
    I removed the big silver shim (washer) and put the two skinny ones back.
    I aligned everything so that at full open the three holes are exposed as per your instructions, and they are progressively covered as you turn the blue compression knob. But putting the moco back in I'm finding that the moco knob now has no effect. So I'm confused as to where I might have gone wrong.

    In your picture I removed the big shim which sits against that 8mm nut, that's correct isn't it?

    Such a simple procedure and yet I still managed to bugger it up!
    Unless of course the mod does mean that the LSC isn't supposed to have as much effect now??? Previously it was almost like a lockout.

    Any ideas?

  31. #31
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    Please check that the 3 damping holes I mentioned above are NOT covered when you turn the blue compression knob all the way counterclockwise before re-installing the MOCO assembly!!! And that the 3 holes are COVERED by the silver plate when the blue knob is all the way clockwise!!! Otherwise you will not have adjustable compression damping....
    Yes the above has been read and checked several times too.

    Just FYI here is a comparison of a Tora 318 moco unit (grey) and the Domain 318 one. You can also see the shim on the right which I took out of the domain.
    The Tora did not have any shims, just two (or three) long holes of differing sizes, and considering it's never completely closed off is the reason why you never get a true lockout.

    The other thing I found is that once you have the moco unit out, you can unscrew the top part from the moco body (by undoing it clockwise and holding onto the plastic moco body).



    The other possibility I'm thinking of is that there is an internal floodgate of sorts that I might have somehow left fully open? That 8mm nut maybe shouldn't have been done all the way back up?
    Last edited by ducktape; 07-17-2009 at 06:37 AM.

  32. #32
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    U did everything right DuckTape, relax dude~

    I think you just need to add in some damping oil so that the oil covers the silver plate by a few millimeters so that the compression damping works..... It happened to me too, just losing a few ml of damping fluid made my MOCO unable to work.... If you let all the fluid drip back from the MOCO after removing it, the top up amount should be around 10-15ml.....

    You will know that you added the right amount of fluid when the MOCO has some slight resistance to go into the stanchions a few mm before the threads engage - this is because the oil has just started touching the silver plate..... Hope u get what I'm talking about~

    Cheers!
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  33. #33
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    Yea Ducktape what Mas said, check your dampening oil levels
    I rebuilt my Lyrik and after adding what i thought was correct oil levels, i noticed that neither the Floodgate, HSC or LSC worked but the rebound did. After panicking, i checked the oil level and found it was 40ml offm topped her up and everything worked properly again

  34. #34
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    Thank you both.
    Like you say I think I've now done everything except the moco oil level now (I drained and put oil into the lowers to make sure it was correct also).

    I will be doing the moco probably today, you're correct in that I didn't feel any resistance when inserting it back each time, and thought that was a little strange since I know the Tora one was generally harder to get in.

  35. #35
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    make sure you have press the silver plate enough in the spring loaded orifice i've make this mistake and have the same problem...after having press the plate harder everything is OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrAzIb
    is someone know if it is possible to install a Lyrik mission control DH cartridge on a 318 domain or at least th Lyirk MoCo IS that im presume is not shimmed like the domain???

    bye the way i've remove the large shim stack, try it this weekend

    i've tried and the mission control from a Lyrik simply wont fit in the stanchion.................

  37. #37
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    An update, I finally got around to checking the oil level, and it was about 50mm out (RS manual says 200mm and there was only about 150mm in there).
    I put fresh oil in to the correct amount and the lsc (lockout) now works! Woohoo. Trail test hopefully this weekend to see if I feel any difference on the bumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducktape
    An update, I finally got around to checking the oil level, and it was about 50mm out (RS manual says 200mm and there was only about 150mm in there).
    I put fresh oil in to the correct amount and the lsc (lockout) now works! Woohoo. Trail test hopefully this weekend to see if I feel any difference on the bumps.


    I'm now running it at 6 clicks clockwise from minimum and it provides a lot of stability when I do sudden steep declines! Trail bump compliance is still much better than stock at minimum compression damping....

    Cheers~
    Mas
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata


    I'm now running it at 6 clicks clockwise from minimum and it provides a lot of stability when I do sudden steep declines! Trail bump compliance is still much better than stock at minimum compression damping....

    Cheers~
    Mas
    Has anyone tried a thinner/smaller shim on this instead of removing the shim all together?

    I might try this mod on my Lyrik IS this weekend. I notice the same thing when hitting roots at speed and don't get even close to full travel.

  40. #40
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    Masnumata reading your little how to gave me the inspiration to try the same sort of thing (kinda) to the Mission Control Damper.
    Read it all in my thread
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoPawn
    Has anyone tried a thinner/smaller shim on this instead of removing the shim all together?

    I might try this mod on my Lyrik IS this weekend. I notice the same thing when hitting roots at speed and don't get even close to full travel.
    The stock shim is already pretty thin, I think you might have to go for a smaller diameter shim instead if you wanna go ahead~ Otherwise I am quite sure the thinner shim will deform...

    If you open up the Lyrik IS, could you update us if the MOCO unit is the same?
    Thankx!

    Mas
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    masnumata, many thanks for the write-up and adding so much detail. Tried this mod for myself with great results. Posted my results over on NSMB. A few others there are trying it as well.

    Also interested if anyone else is experimenting with a different shim size. I'm tempted to try a few different sizes to get the best tuning for my weight (155 lbs). I've tried with the stock (red) spring and the softer (silver) spring. The red spring is to hard, and the silver is borderline too soft. The latter is perfect for most stuff, but I'm a bit weary of taking it off jumps bigger than 4 feet, or smaller jumps with harsh landings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
    masnumata, many thanks for the write-up and adding so much detail. Tried this mod for myself with great results. Posted my results over on NSMB. A few others there are trying it as well.
    You are most welcome~ I'm just glad the info has helped a fellow rider~
    I'm still running 6 clicks from minimum compression damping , and this has prevented me from endo-ing many times when I was riding in Batam when rolling down steeps.... Small bump compliance is still better than stock~

    Did 3 foot drops on it today and the fork absorbs the landing so nicely~ I could feel the compression damping kicking in when needed woo!

    I've also noticed something about the 180mm version of the Domain after trying out my friend's bike, and it seems to not have the spiking problem at all with the stock shim stack.... Perhaps the fork damping design was centred around the 180mm version...
    Well anyway I will update the thread when I figure out why his Domain 180mm rides fine with the shim inside~

    Cheers!
    Mas
    Last edited by masnumata; 07-26-2009 at 06:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    I've also noticed something about the 180mm version of the Domain after trying out my friend's bike, and it seems to not have the spiking problem at all with the stock shim stack.... Perhaps the fork damping design was centred around the 180mm version...
    Well anyway I will update the thread when I figure out why his Domain 180mm rides fine with the shim inside~
    Update!

    I went to re-install the shim back into my Domain 318 160mm last night. It was bloody bumpy on the small stuff and became more apparent into my ride as my water supply ran out plus I sweated off a huge load of perspiration (my riding mass decreased) , and the fork kept deflecting off roots instead of maintain traction.... My wrists are still hurting.... Urgh....

    I think I've got it figured out why my friend's 180mm domain doesn't have the spiking problem anymore.... It's due to the rider (me).

    I've gained around 15lbs since I first rode his fork and felt the spiking.... (Yes my gf is back from her overseas trip and I can't stop eating haha~)

    It's the weight of the rider, and the stroke of the fork - the high speed compression shim would be less effective as the stroke of the fork gets longer (in this case 180mm) as compared to when it is used in the 160mm stroke (as felt in my ride last night).

    I believe that heavier riders like me now (86kg/ 190lb and up) will not benefit from the shim removal from the longer 180mm domain due to the less effect of the shim on the small/medium bumps.....

    In the case of the 160mm domain, the shim has a profound effect, so the weight cut off is different (like me, I am 86kg now but I still feel the harshness of the shim so I need to remove it). I think the shim removal would not be necessary for heavier riders (maybe 200lb?), but anyone less than 86kg/190lb) will probably find the shim removal/ change useful.....

    Anyway I'm back to running it with no high speed shim, as the blue knob still provides me the right amount of high compression and low compression damping at 6 clicks from minimum.... (5 clicks if I'm hitting a relatively flat trail and not going down steep chutes)

    Hope that clears up the air a bit more!
    Cheers!
    Mas
    Last edited by masnumata; 07-30-2009 at 08:34 PM.
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    180mm domain with lighter rider....

    i'm at about 165lbs and my 180mm domain gets only about 160mm travel before it feels like it becomes a rigid fork. your write-up is terrific and i believe for lighter riders the shim still needs to go.....i'm gonna do it to mine, because i've tried everything else....but it may take me some time to do it since i just put a totem on my bike instead.

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    Update!

    I've noticed that the compression damping can change quite a by itself when I'm running 7clicks (It used to be 6 clicks, but I re-assembled my damper and now it's 7 clicks for the same effect, kinda shows how imprecision of the slot/key design) of compression damping during riding..... Urgh.....

    I'm thinking whether it could be due to the silver plate position changing by itself as the construction of the damping device is not precise. i.e. the silver plate has a bit of freeplay rotationwise due to the loose the slot/key design. Which means the area of the 3 holes it's supposed to cover can change during riding, as the silver plate lifts up and pops back onto the black block.... (I think that's the tapping sound that McCrumble is hearing during hard compression hits, I'm starting to get it too....)

    I might want to try totally removing the silver plate (thus removing the adjustability of the compression damping completely), and tuning up the compression damping using the "shimstack".....

    Either that or I will do some putty work on the "key" area to remove the rotational freeplay for the silver plate.... Or something along those lines....



    I might also want to consider changing back to 5wt oil instead of the 2.5wt oil I have inside there to see it it makes a difference....
    Woah it's gonna bit a big project.... Will be using my backup fork in the meantime while I tinker with this.... (Kinda feeling now that the Motion Control IS damping system a letdown.... Oh well.. Can't expect too much from a cheap fork....)

    Will update again when that happens!
    Cheers!
    Mas
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    Mas, thanks for the write-up on this. I just removed the shim from my Domain 302 that I upgraded by ordering the 318 MoCo damper.

    I'm 240 lbs using the extra firm spring and stock oil weight. With that setup I was always leaving about 20mm of travel unused. We'll see how it works now without the shim. I'm doing a couple of rides this weekend, I'll report back afterwards.

  48. #48
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    Cheers Mate!
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

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    so what exactly did you do? just remove the shims alltogether or what?

    i gotta try this!

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    hey, masnumata, if it's okay with you i'd like to do a how-to video and post it on youtube for more people to see, and credit you. let me know.

  51. #51
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    So. Has anyone just done the lighter oil thing and then turn up the low speed compression? I'm thinking of doing this first, before taking the shim out (if I can), as it is effectively the same thing. If you did, was the rebound too fast even at full slow?

    Also, how much force does it take to get the adjuster plate off? Mine seemed like it didn't want to come off, and I was worried about forcing too much and breaking it.

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    i just pulled mine off, it takes a good bit of force at first but then it gets easier

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    hey, masnumata, if it's okay with you i'd like to do a how-to video and post it on youtube for more people to see, and credit you. let me know.
    Please do!
    Knowledge is power, and should be shared with everyone~

    Cheers!
    Mas
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  54. #54
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    alright! part 1 and 2 are done! lol the rest will happen tomorrow

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    I went through quite a process of tuning on my pike that may help some of you.

    WHen I first got the fork, it was harsh AND overactive, but since it was new to me and my first coil fork, I didnt think much of it.

    Then I decided to get a softer spring and se if I could tune the brake dive out with the compression adjuster. Didnt work well. But the spring was on the right track because my fork used its travel better than before.

    Next, I figured to help with the brake dive I would use heavier oil. I used 10wt oil and it was PERFECT. Super plush, uses all of its travel without bottoming harsh, and the high speed control is amazing. Reduced brake dive was a big relief too.

    I am quite satisfied with the bike at this point. I can still see room for improvement but after performing similar mods to various customers, I am fairly convinced that motion control is under damped from the factory. A heavier oil is a step in the right direction as long as your spring rate is proper.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmilMick
    I went through quite a process of tuning on my pike that may help some of you.

    WHen I first got the fork, it was harsh AND overactive, but since it was new to me and my first coil fork, I didnt think much of it.

    Then I decided to get a softer spring and se if I could tune the brake dive out with the compression adjuster. Didnt work well. But the spring was on the right track because my fork used its travel better than before.

    Next, I figured to help with the brake dive I would use heavier oil. I used 10wt oil and it was PERFECT. Super plush, uses all of its travel without bottoming harsh, and the high speed control is amazing. Reduced brake dive was a big relief too.

    I am quite satisfied with the bike at this point. I can still see room for improvement but after performing similar mods to various customers, I am fairly convinced that motion control is under damped from the factory. A heavier oil is a step in the right direction as long as your spring rate is proper.
    Was yours the 160 or 180mm version?
    Mas
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by masnumata
    Was yours the 160 or 180mm version?
    Mas
    He's got a Pike (140mm), not Domain...

    Quote Originally Posted by SmiMick
    I went through quite a process of tuning on my pike that may help some of you.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by toowacky
    He's got a Pike (140mm), not Domain...
    Oh~ Right, thanks hee~
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by SmilMick
    I went through quite a process of tuning on my pike that may help some of you.

    WHen I first got the fork, it was harsh AND overactive, but since it was new to me and my first coil fork, I didnt think much of it.

    Then I decided to get a softer spring and se if I could tune the brake dive out with the compression adjuster. Didnt work well. But the spring was on the right track because my fork used its travel better than before.

    Next, I figured to help with the brake dive I would use heavier oil. I used 10wt oil and it was PERFECT. Super plush, uses all of its travel without bottoming harsh, and the high speed control is amazing. Reduced brake dive was a big relief too.

    I am quite satisfied with the bike at this point. I can still see room for improvement but after performing similar mods to various customers, I am fairly convinced that motion control is under damped from the factory. A heavier oil is a step in the right direction as long as your spring rate is proper.
    That sounds like a good idea~ Will try it out during the next overhaul of the pike~
    Thanks!

    Mas
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  60. #60
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    Hah that's good to know in case I don't have enough 5wt for my Tora when I put it back together. After your comments I'd be happy to try a 5wt/15wt mix if need be, I was getting worried because Rock Shox states that specific wt and levels are a must.
    I don't mind playing around as long as I have some idea of what I'm doing or trying to do!

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    I am also well up for having a fiddle with the damping in my '09 180 Domain.

    I wish I had taken my 160 U-Turn one apart because that was a nightmare fork.

    Out of interest; has anyone polished the stantions* on their Domains? I noticed that there is a noticeable amount of stiction on the top third of travel with the spring out.

    *Only enough to get the manufacturing striations off

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    some good info here...i weigh 172 lbs and just got a uturn domain...ive ridden it a bit and found it to be too soft for my likes....i ride it with the compression knob full clockwise...i will be changing to 10 wt oil to get a stiffer fork and that should allow me to run the knob completely open...also it is kind of wierd that when you guys take out the mission control damper that the oil level then becomes 50 mL too low...
    Last edited by adamantane; 12-29-2009 at 11:33 AM.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane
    some good info here...i weigh 172 lbs and just got a uturn domain...ive ridden it a bit and found it to be too soft for my likes....i ride it with the compression knob full clockwise...i will be changing to 10 wt oil to get a stiffer fork and that should allow me to run the knob completely open...also it is kind of wierd that when you guys take out the mission control damper that the oil level then becomes 50 mL too low...
    That sounds a bit funny.... The fork would have been "locked out" when the compression dial is maximum clockwise~

    You might want to check the oil level, whether it touches the MOCO assy in the right leg first before attempting an oil change~

    Cheers~
    Mas
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  64. #64
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    I know that OP said that High Speed and Low Speed were not independent, or seperate or something. When I did the mod I thought I had done something wroing. Then I opened up my Tora Moco as well to see if it had any shims etc, and no it's a simpler system than the Domain.
    Anyway I had thought that I did something wrong because after the mod the compression knob didn't seem to make any difference.
    It was only when I put the shim back in today and the compression worked as normal that I realized the shim was crucial for the LSC to work.

    The fork rode nicely during the time I had it without a shim, but otherwise I hadn't had it long enough prior to that to know if it was really any better than stock. And I'm 5ft7, around 68kg so run a soft spring in the fork, and I don't ride fast or hard enough to really test it out.

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    Anyone ever think about drilling a VERY small hole in that big shim instead of removing it?

  66. #66
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    Fark I think my fork is one of those that leaks through the hole in the rebound bolt! Does that mean that the only proper solution is a new rebound damper?
    In the mean time the problem was solved when I put some BluTac inside the rebond knob, which esentially seals the hole in the bolt, and now oil isn't leaking out slowly the compression damping is working as it should.

    So obviously my compression never worked properly because the oil level couldn't have been correct, because I discovered the leak after I put the shim back in and it was all working fine until a few days later.
    So I don't really know what the real effect of removing the shim was considering I was riding a fork which wouldn't have been functioning correctly anwyay!

    My bad luck is that I purchased it over a year ago from CRC and I'm not paying postage to send it back to them, I think it would be cheaper to just buy a new rebound damper if that's what's required.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    Anyone ever think about drilling a VERY small hole in that big shim instead of removing it?
    hard to go backwards after drilling something....curious, do you know what the dimensions of the shim are (ID, OD, thickness)? the shim can be changed to small or whatever
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  68. #68
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    I don't know the numbers but I know that the shim is very thin, if you were to drill it you would have to do it on top of a piece of wood or something, it's very bendy.

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    Forget drilling a shim. They're too thin and will distort almost regardless of what you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Forget drilling a shim. They're too thin and will distort almost regardless of what you do.
    Not true at all. I've seen many drilled shims in my motorcycle fork and shock valving. Very thin shims also. If your hamfisted, yes you will distort it but if you are careful, it's fine.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    Not true at all. I've seen many drilled shims in my motorcycle fork and shock valving. Very thin shims also. If your hamfisted, yes you will distort it but if you are careful, it's fine.
    The one way I can see being able to drill a shim is by clamping it tightly between two perfectly smooth pieces of metal, and then drilling through the metal and the shim as one. I could maybe see it working if you're only drilling a very small hole, because at that point the relative size between drill bit and shim is much better.

    You can make a hole in a shim by using a punch or by using a small grinding tip, but a normal drill bit is going to tear and distort a shim, unless you're talking a seriously thick shim. It's not about being hamfisted, just think about how a drill bit work. It's edge is being pushed through the material, and that pressure is what's cutting the metal. When you're talking about something 0.1 or 0.2 millimeters thick, there's just not enough material there to allow the drill bit to cut through without bending or tearing.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    The one way I can see being able to drill a shim is by clamping it tightly between two perfectly smooth pieces of metal, and then drilling through the metal and the shim as one. I could maybe see it working if you're only drilling a very small hole, because at that point the relative size between drill bit and shim is much better.

    You can make a hole in a shim by using a punch or by using a small grinding tip, but a normal drill bit is going to tear and distort a shim, unless you're talking a seriously thick shim. It's not about being hamfisted, just think about how a drill bit work. It's edge is being pushed through the material, and that pressure is what's cutting the metal. When you're talking about something 0.1 or 0.2 millimeters thick, there's just not enough material there to allow the drill bit to cut through without bending or tearing.
    A: it can be done (I worked as a machinist waaay back in the day) and B: are you really telling me how a drill bit works?

    Thanks for the input, always good to hear others perspective on things

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by shift96
    A: it can be done (I worked as a machinist waaay back in the day) and B: are you really telling me how a drill bit works?

    Thanks for the input, always good to hear others perspective on things
    I'm not saying this sarcastically, but how would you do it?

    I was forced to make my own shims for a vintage shock rebuild, using 0.1mm C1095 spring steel, and needing to produce a 3/8" hole. With my drill press I tried low rpms, high rpms, low bit speed, high bit speed, having it clamped between between two piece of wood, having it clamped between two piece of aluminum, and slowly stepping up the bit size, and with all of them the shim distorted enough to make it unsuitable.

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    jesus...somebody just post the dimensions of the shim...it is probably 0.1 thick but what is the id and od
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  75. #75
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    I went ahead and did this mod since I will be using my Domain mostly for XC trails.

    Does this mod create more bob while pedaling uphill?

    Is the damping over washboard like sections that much better with the removal of the large shim?

  76. #76
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    Just wanted to see how happy are you guys with the mod and if you have other suggestions.

  77. #77
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    Well my forks seems to be fixed, I took it apart completely, when I removed the bolt from the damper rod there was a gush of air under pressure that came out. Having it apart I couldn't see anything wrong so put it all back together.
    I've done maybe a couple of hours riding since and the bike has sat there for a few days, still no evidence of leaking oil now. So it looks like perhaps some sort of manufacturing issue, didn't assemble it 100% correctly or something!
    Now that issue is resolved and I'm a happy camper I might try the shim mod again after I get a few good rides in with the fork as it is.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    I went ahead and did this mod since I will be using my Domain mostly for XC trails.

    Does this mod create more bob while pedaling uphill?

    Is the damping over washboard like sections that much better with the removal of the large shim?
    The damping over washboard sections is definitely improved with the removal of the shim..... Much less spiking~

    Mas
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  79. #79
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    anyone torn open a 2010 domain besides me? there were about 4 shims in that one instead of just one big one. i took the biggest one out. also what weight spring comes stock in these forks?
    I wish my grass was emo so it would cut itself...

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    I was going to do this mod, but said screw it and ordered a new DH damper with dual flow.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoPawn
    I was going to do this mod, but said screw it and ordered a new DH damper with dual flow.
    Is there oil in the lowers on the spring side?

    Is it possible to replace the spring without losing oil?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoPawn
    I was going to do this mod, but said screw it and ordered a new DH damper with dual flow.
    till you find out the mission control wont fit in the domain stanchion, or else alot of people would be doing this.
    I wish my grass was emo so it would cut itself...

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude
    till you find out the mission control wont fit in the domain stanchion, or else alot of people would be doing this.
    I guess that's fine since I have a Lyrik MC IS.

    I was following this thread because my Lyrik came with the same crappy damper that comes in the Domain, not Mission Control.

    Good point though. Any idea on what the wall thickness difference is between the two?

  84. #84
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    no idea, i am really tempted to get a MiCo damper and retrofit it. maybe file it down to make it work. who knows? it may pay off huge.
    I wish my grass was emo so it would cut itself...

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude
    anyone torn open a 2010 domain besides me? there were about 4 shims in that one instead of just one big one. i took the biggest one out. also what weight spring comes stock in these forks?

    do you have measurements on those shims in the '10? thickness and outside diameter
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  86. #86
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    i dont have them, sorry
    I wish my grass was emo so it would cut itself...

  87. #87
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    Did anyone happen to save the pics from the install? Thanks!

    A

  88. #88
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    Want to see how you guys are liking is this mod or if you put the shim back in.

    My firm spring is a little too firm for my weight. The medium spring was too soft. If I switch the oil to 5wt in the damper, would that make the fork a little more plush?

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    Want to see how you guys are liking is this mod or if you put the shim back in.

    My firm spring is a little too firm for my weight. The medium spring was too soft. If I switch the oil to 5wt in the damper, would that make the fork a little more plush?
    What year is your fork?
    I have a 08 and IMO: The mod feels great. It's much smoother throughout the travel.
    It's a big improvement in rockgardens and choppy sections.
    It should help with your spring weight issue too.

    The damper oil is 5wt stock. I guess you could try a 2.5wt - 5wt mix if the mod doesn't help enough.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    What year is your fork?
    I have a 08 and IMO: The mod feels great. It's much smoother throughout the travel.
    It's a big improvement in rockgardens and choppy sections.
    It should help with your spring weight issue too.

    The damper oil is 5wt stock. I guess you could try a 2.5wt - 5wt mix if the mod doesn't help enough.
    My fork is either 08 or 09. I have done the mod and like it.

    The issue has more to do with the Spring. The medium being too soft and the firm being a bit too firm. I would they had a u-turn spring rated between those two

  91. #91
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    Re-post of pics~

    Mas
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01215.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01216.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01217.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01218.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01219.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01220.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01221.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01222.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01223.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-dsc01224.jpg  

    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  92. #92
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    Managed to find this through using the search function..

    I'm looking at getting a Scott Voltage FR20 2010 and the fork which comes on it is the Domain 302 Coil, with only rebound adjustment. Obviously I don't know how the fork will feel.. But is that any possibly that I can mod the damper in the fork. I know that this sounds very far fetched, but hopefully someone will more expertise than me will be able to shed more light upon my question.

    Thanks, Ryan.

  93. #93
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    so if I wanted to do this, would I have to get fork oil, or is there enough in there to allow me to just buy the damper and knob and drop it in? also, can this be done w/o removing the fork from the bike, and w/o removing the lowers?
    I'd be unstoppable... If I could just get started !!

  94. #94
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    It can be done without removing the fork or the lowers. To get the damper unit out of the 318 you need a really small allen key to get the blue dial off and then a big socket, and that's about it (sorry don't know the sizes off the top of my head).
    I haven't dealt with a 302 so I'm not sure what's inside it and how much oil. But either way if you do need oil you still don't need to take the lowers off, you just put the oil in before you put the damper unit inside. Obviously you might have to tip your bike over to empty any oil that might be in there first.

  95. #95
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    Thanks!!! Well I've been riding on my 160mm 318 domain for about 8 months now stock and ive never used all of the travel and I kept getting spikes over choppy washboard and braking bumps. I was actually searching google to see where I could find a softer spring and I found this. I just did the mod in around 10 minutes, put it back together and I can already tell that the fork is much more plush! I'm going to go for a quick test ride out at the local trails and I'll give you guys an update. I'm going to mammoth on friday so I need to decide whether or not I'll keep the mod.

    Has anybody had any trouble with the fork bottoming out too much with this mod?

    Update: Fork rides great!!!!! I'm for sure going to keep the shim out for mammoth as the for is actually sprung a bit heavy for me (I'm 130ish lbs and I'm using the medium red spring) so im not going to worry about bottoming out too much
    Last edited by Chornbeak; 08-04-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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  96. #96
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    Saw this MoCo article on BikeRumor today-- gives a nice explanation that compliments this write-up.

    Article:
    Bikerumor >> Tech Article: How Rockshox Motion Control Works

  97. #97
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    Hey guys, sorry for the bump here but I just want to report another success with this mod!

    I got an '09 Domain practically new from this guy last week and was pretty happy with it, of course my only complaint was it had pretty bad compliance on washboards and Socal rock gardens. I found this topic via Google and was able to do it without even using the pictures - it's a really obvious procedure (there aren't really many parts to the Moco damper). Only thing was I didn't let the oil drain out of the damper back into the upper tube, so it took a few tries to get the oil levels right.

    Anyways, since I did the mod now the fork tracks ridiculously well and feels like it's glued to the trail. It definitely seems like the LSC/Lockout is more effective now as well; I can run more of it without it getting too harsh.

    Mas, thanks a lot for posting the guide! Not only did it make my fork great but it helped my understanding of how it works. Sweet!

  98. #98
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    Cheers!

    Glad the info could be of help~
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  99. #99
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    I'm curious whether everyone removed all the shims or just the large one? If you removed all the shims and also bolt, how is it different from just removing the large shim?

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2clue
    I'm curious whether everyone removed all the shims or just the large one? If you removed all the shims and also bolt, how is it different from just removing the large shim?
    Only the large shim controls the oil flow, so if u just remove the big shim, or all the shims and bolt, the outcome would be the same~

    I think what you're wondering is whether the repositioning of the shims to make the large shim nearer or further away from the orifice ports will affect the damping.... For that you will have to read up more on the forums~

    Cheers~
    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  101. #101
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    Since I'd gleaned so much info from this thread and have just finished the mod, I felt it only fair to register and say a big thanks to mas for the guide (made for good reading at work )

    In addition, I've got a set of 2010 318's and interestingly enough they've added a bunch more shims as you can see from the linked pic, let me know if link is unaccessable or parsed out by the forum.

    https://i.imgur.com/xjqto.jpg

    I've only removed the largest for first round of testing, but will remove/swap the others one by one when I get round to testing

    (Edited to say, don't overtighten the 24mm on the top of the leg.. I need a new rubber washer )

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrongtime-Rurker
    Since I'd gleaned so much info from this thread and have just finished the mod, I felt it only fair to register and say a big thanks to mas for the guide (made for good reading at work )

    In addition, I've got a set of 2010 318's and interestingly enough they've added a bunch more shims as you can see from the linked pic, let me know if link is unaccessable or parsed out by the forum.

    https://i.imgur.com/xjqto.jpg

    I've only removed the largest for first round of testing, but will remove/swap the others one by one when I get round to testing

    (Edited to say, don't overtighten the 24mm on the top of the leg.. I need a new rubber washer )

    Cheers mate~

    Ooo~ More shims!~ That's improvement on Rockshox's side! Great!

    Hope to hear good news with the 2010's shim stack arrangement!

    Mas
    "Ride it, Feel it...."

  103. #103
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    Any chance of getting the daimeter/thicknesses of the 2010 shims?

  104. #104
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    So much for pictures

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by taletotell
    So much for pictures
    He re-posted them in post 91. I just checked and they work for me.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Climber
    He re-posted them in post 91. I just checked and they work for me.
    What does post 91 mean and how do you find it?

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by taletotell
    What does post 91 mean and how do you find it?
    If you look off to the right each post is numbered (this is post #107). Post 91 is on the second page.

    Hope that helps!

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Climber
    If you look off to the right each post is numbered (this is post #107). Post 91 is on the second page.

    Hope that helps!
    Thanks a lot.

    The mod worked great for me.

  109. #109
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    hey, so any word from those of you who have tinkered with the 2010 shimstack? what have you done and how did it affect the ride?

    I just tore into my MoCo damper and discovered that it is the 2010 model with all the extra shims.... Now I feel like a fish out of water... but gonna remove the largest washer and see what that does. Will report back with ride report later.
    I'd be unstoppable... If I could just get started !!

  110. #110
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    For me it made it far more plush. It feels better over the small bumps, but it doesn't get as close to locking out anymore. and I have to crank up my compression a little before doing jumps. I would put it back in if I were doing a trip to Diablo or anywhere with a lot of jumps and smooth track.

  111. #111
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    so... got back from my ride.... HOLY ****! I had to check several times to make sure that I still had the same fork on the bike. The difference is incredible!! Roots, babyheads, and washboard stuff disappears! all that harsh spiking that I was feeling is gone. @ taletotell, I too noticed that the compression damping was slightly reduced... but for me and the riding that I do, that is a very acceptable compromise. I rarely do any big hit type of stuff, and we don't have any bike oriented trails here. At 10 clicks it was still plenty "locked out" for commuting to the trail, yet at full open it beautifully matched the Monarch that was out back. FINALLY!!! My bike feels balanced! and to think... just a piece of metal the size of my thumbnail is all that was keeping me from trail bliss...
    I'd be unstoppable... If I could just get started !!

  112. #112
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    Glad you liked it. I agree it is definitely better. It saves the wrists a lot of work, and I can still increase the compression enough for good jumping most of the time.

  113. #113
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    Just did the mod as well, and want to add a note of thanks for the write up. It was less than a 5 min job total and made a nice difference! Thanks again!
    '08 Turner Highline
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  114. #114
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    Hello for all damping experts !!

    I've a Domain 302 Uturn 160 (rebound only). I'm 155lbs (70kg), and I only have 13% SAG (stock medium spring).

    I want to upgrade to a soft spring (it will give me a ~ 18-20% SAG) in order to have more small bump performance. But I'm afraid that the soft spring will bottom-out and suffer from brake diving.

    If I also upgrade to a MoCo IS, can I tune the fork to reduce fork diving, and increase bottom resistance, without losing small bump performance? Or is it asking too much

    BTW I do trail/all-mountain, but also, Freeride/DH with some jumps (I rarely use last 5 or 10 mm of travel with stock spring).

    Bye from Portugal (that little country next to spain, you know...lol)

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrextr
    Hello for all damping experts !!

    I've a Domain 302 Uturn 160 (rebound only). I'm 155lbs (70kg), and I only have 13% SAG (stock medium spring).

    I want to upgrade to a soft spring (it will give me a ~ 18-20% SAG) in order to have more small bump performance. But I'm afraid that the soft spring will bottom-out and suffer from brake diving.

    If I also upgrade to a MoCo IS, can I tune the fork to reduce fork diving, and increase bottom resistance, without losing small bump performance? Or is it asking too much

    BTW I do trail/all-mountain, but also, Freeride/DH with some jumps (I rarely use last 5 or 10 mm of travel with stock spring).

    Bye from Portugal (that little country next to spain, you know...lol)
    Get the Moco and do the mod, but put the shim back when you ride a lot of FR. You will blow through all your travel too quick without the shim off big drops and jumps (4ft+). I did the mod right before going to a park with lift access and smooth trails. I wished I'd waited. I ended up almost locking out my compression for the big jumps most of the time. It is better for AM worse for FR without the shim.

    The softer spring is a good idea too. Without it you aren't likely to get full use of your moco.

  116. #116
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    thanks very much for the guideline!!! this made a lot sense technically and this mod worked very well as my type of riding was more on trail with rockgardens and some popping here and there.

    here's some pics for those who will be opening up their forks for the 1st time (just like i was). hopefully this will guide you through the starting part and make the process less scary.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-20120623_210727.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-20120623_210746.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-20120623_210846.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-20120623_211424.jpg  

    Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-20120623_211549.jpg  


  117. #117
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    when i opened up shim stack there's 5 shims, with the largest (which was removed) position furthest away from the port holes. According to the seller, my fork was taken off a new 2011 Kona bike.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Opening up the Domain 318 Integrated Speedstack-20120623_211929.jpg  


  118. #118
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    Has anyone tried removing the gate and running just the shim stack?

    How does the oil exit the compression damper during rebound?

  119. #119
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    The correct spring is crucial in any coil fork, but I feel it's especially important in the 318/RC Domains. I'm running a 2012 damper with the extra shims in its stock configuration. Works amazing. Following steps really help.

    Pull the spring out of the tube. Crank up the compression knob to max. Top out the fork by pushing the lowers down. Push down slightly, then top it out again. A few cycles and the fork should stand on its own when topped out. If not, oil level is too low.

    After adding oil to get the fork to stay topped out, leave the spring out and bottom the fork out. The fork should bottom out easily and smoothly after blowing off LSC. If it stutters through the stroke or increases in resistance at the end of stroke, there is too much oil.

    Once the oil level is mama-bear, start tuning with springs and preload. I find that once I moved down one (softer) spring, I get a much better feeling fork. I tried the mod and find it blows through the travel too quickly and the stock shim configuration flows plenty of oil even at the full LSC setting once blown off.

    I feel this mod robs the fork of its versatility and its ability to remain higher in its travel. I also feel this mod is a cheaper route than getting a softer spring if one isn't on hand.

  120. #120
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    I am reviving this thread in order to share with you my experience with the Domain.

    It came stock with my Giant Reign SX and it was a 170mm R model with a firm spring installed. After the first rides and some noticeable brake diving and slightly uncontrolled behavior I installed the Motion Control damper and it dramatically improved its performance but the spring was really too firm so I changed it for a medium one and now the fork performs just great.

    Just a couple of notes.
    1. Based on my weight I should have a extra firm spring but even the firm one was too firm for AM use. After using the medium one I get around 80-90% travel in every ride with quite good plush performance.
    2. The Motion Control damper even though it improved dramatically the Domain performance still doesn't make a huge difference on the LSC behavior. It has 10 clicks but honestly I cant tell a huge difference from 1 to 6 click and then it becomes really stiff and almost locks in the last click. Maybe it is just me that can't tell the difference.

    Anyway overall I am really happy with its performance. It is for sure heavy but I don't any big complaints from its performance and I believe that even though it is not a highly sophisticated fork it is highly benefited from the right spring.

  121. #121
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    Hi I have the 07 318 and a fresh rebuild and the shim removal mod has made this fork a game changer for me . It inspires confidence and made a new bike out of my Norco fluid 2 .Thanks for the thread Mas

  122. #122
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    I did this mod but I don't really notice a change in compression until about mid-stroke into the travel. Would this suggest I'm slightly low on oil or is this the expected result?

  123. #123
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    Does anyone have the images for this OP of the thread or maybe another link else where?

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