objective differences going from FIT4 to either Grip2 or new RockShox damper?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    objective differences going from FIT4 to either Grip2 or new RockShox damper?

    Currently have a Fox 34 Factory with 2019 140mm air shaft and FIT4. It's the max length this fork can go. It's on an Evil Offering with X2 rear. Fork has been overhauled with fresh oil and is set up properly.

    What objective improvements will I expect with either a 140mm Grip2 damper (recent aftermarket option) or going straight to a new longer travel Pike if the 140mm isn't ideal?

    FWIW, I'm 165 pounds geared up, our local trails are mostly loose over hard, not a lot of super long rocky or rooty descents. Just fast, g-outs, braking bumps forever. I'm not a jumper, but I do ride aggressively yet smoothly, if that makes sense. This will be my fun cornering playful descender so climbing performance is moot.

    I'm still dialing in the Offering, and enjoy fine tuning the X2, and hope the flip chip and 140 fork work "perfectly" because it'd save me the cost of new fork, but if the Grip2 or new 150mm RockShox option are objectively better to the point of "whoa, that FIT4 has no business being on the front of this bike" then I won't hesitate. But if it's minimal, and I'd see more improvement with tire choice/psi and dialing in the FIT4 + X2, then I'd pass.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    The switch to the Grip 2 on my bike(s) was noticeable and positive. One is a Santa Cruz Hightower (Gen 1) and the other a Pivot Shuttle eMTB. Both are also set up with Fox X2 rear shocks, so the Grip 2 is a perfect match. I ended up running both forks nearly wide open on compression and am super happy with the way they perform, and noticeably better (or more accurately, better balanced) than the FIT4 and Grip 1 dampers that were in there before.

    Also, the swap is a SUPER easy DIY project. 10 minutes.

  3. #3
    LCW
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    objective differences going from FIT4 to either Grip2 or new RockShox damper?

    I just installed a 2021 GRIP2 damper in my 2020 34 Float fork. Haven't had a chance to ride it yet other than a quick shakedown in the driveway to make sure everything felt good after the install. When I hit the trails I can report back. This is on my Tallboy 4.




    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  4. #4
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    I may do this with my 2020 130MM factory 34-----do you need to put oil in the fork and if so what type and how much-----I think the damper is a bit over $300 is that correct

    I just installed the luftkappe and have only ridden it once----went from 62 to 70 pounds but next time I think 68----fork felt better for sure---I am about 170 ready to ride

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    While the fox36 fit4 really sucks and is probably the harshest thing i ever tried, i felt really good on a fox34 fit4 and i wouldn't change that.
    Is this possible? Other people felt this?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I may do this with my 2020 130MM factory 34-----do you need to put oil in the fork and if so what type and how much-----I think the damper is a bit over $300 is that correct

    I just installed the luftkappe and have only ridden it once----went from 62 to 70 pounds but next time I think 68----fork felt better for sure---I am about 170 ready to ride
    Fox says 5wt Teflon infused for the GRIP2 damper side - seems like 40cc from what I gathered, as the 2021 34 GRIP2 specs aren't showing yet in the Fox tech section of their website. In the air spring leg, I put 10cc of 20wt Gold.

    https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1056

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  7. #7
    ejh
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    I've been thinking about doing this on my 160/36. I've heard that there are so many adjustments/settings that its a pain to set up. For those that have done it how a
    was it to set up?

  8. #8
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    While the fox36 fit4 really sucks and is probably the harshest thing i ever tried, i felt really good on a fox34 fit4 and i wouldn't change that.
    Is this possible? Other people felt this?
    I didnít dislike my 34 FIT4 but the little sharp edge hits were what felt harsh. And I had LSC pretty open. Otherwise was fairly plush. My hope and from what Iíve heard the GRIP2 with separate adjustable HSC will tame those sharp edge bumps like roots, rocks.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    While the fox36 fit4 really sucks and is probably the harshest thing i ever tried, i felt really good on a fox34 fit4 and i wouldn't change that.
    Is this possible? Other people felt this?
    I have newish 2018 fit4 36 27.5 boost 170
    It felt like trash compared to my old xfusion vengeance coil hlr, but I need a 27.5 fork that could fit decent sized tires instead of a 26 inch straight streerer that could fit tiny 27.5 tires. I got a new old stock fork for 450 though so I planned to upgrade to coil any way, but I didn't know I would need a new damper too, grr. I am 185 with gear and run it wide open, but it feels pretty dead

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Currently have a Fox 34 Factory with 2019 140mm air shaft and FIT4. It's the max length this fork can go. It's on an Evil Offering with X2 rear. Fork has been overhauled with fresh oil and is set up properly.

    What objective improvements will I expect with either a 140mm Grip2 damper (recent aftermarket option) or going straight to a new longer travel Pike if the 140mm isn't ideal?

    FWIW, I'm 165 pounds geared up, our local trails are mostly loose over hard, not a lot of super long rocky or rooty descents. Just fast, g-outs, braking bumps forever. I'm not a jumper, but I do ride aggressively yet smoothly, if that makes sense. This will be my fun cornering playful descender so climbing performance is moot.

    I'm still dialing in the Offering, and enjoy fine tuning the X2, and hope the flip chip and 140 fork work "perfectly" because it'd save me the cost of new fork, but if the Grip2 or new 150mm RockShox option are objectively better to the point of "whoa, that FIT4 has no business being on the front of this bike" then I won't hesitate. But if it's minimal, and I'd see more improvement with tire choice/psi and dialing in the FIT4 + X2, then I'd pass.

    Thanks in advance.
    Rather than just pasting...

    https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...l#post14769167

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  11. #11
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    In real life the difference is minimal, but the placebo effect is powerful.

    Fit4 is a very good damper. Reports of it being harsh are likely due to things other than the damper. Grip2 is also very good and has some durability enhancements, but not sufficiently better to justify the upgrade.

    If your fork feels too harsh on square impacts, it's probably the air spring. Try a luftkappe or push low friction seals. Before spending money, you can also try tuning with volume spacers, or even just dialing down rebound and/or increasing/decreasing air pressure. A lot of people seem to attribute poor set up to the fork being bad. Not so, fox36 and fit4 is an excellent product.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    ...
    What objective improvements will I expect with either a 140mm Grip2 damper (recent aftermarket option) or going straight to a new longer travel Pike if the 140mm isn't ideal?
    ...
    None. Really. How do you think it is possible to improve anything every single year? And how do you think it is possible that every single year the new technological breakthrough is ready pretty much in the same month? Discovery runs on a clock? Luck? or simply a recurrent scum betting that people are ready to buy upgrades for the sake of buying?

    Change your seals and oil regularly ... that is what people do when they install an upgrade and that is why the fork feels better ...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davide View Post
    Change your seals and oil regularly ... that is what people do when they install an upgrade and that is why the fork feels better ...
    This is quite true. Also they are comparing a brand new damper with fresh oil to one that likely hasn't been serviced in a long time. That alone could account for a big difference.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    Send fork to service which can burnish bushing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    In real life the difference is minimal, but the placebo effect is powerful.

    Fit4 is a very good damper. Reports of it being harsh are likely due to things other than the damper. Grip2 is also very good and has some durability enhancements, but not sufficiently better to justify the upgrade.

    If your fork feels too harsh on square impacts, it's probably the air spring. Try a luftkappe or push low friction seals. Before spending money, you can also try tuning with volume spacers, or even just dialing down rebound and/or increasing/decreasing air pressure. A lot of people seem to attribute poor set up to the fork being bad. Not so, fox36 and fit4 is an excellent product.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    I hope this is correct, but I did go from an old fork to a new one so it certainly wasn't the seal thing people latter suggested. The damper feels way over damped to me. I will mess with it some more and see if I can make it better, but as it is wide open there is nothing to do but air spring and rebound. I am tempted to just get the coil and then worry about the damper so I can do one thing at a time, but I will see what happens. I hate to invest time in futzing with spacers in the air spring when I plan to use a coil anyway.

  16. #16
    LCW
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    I swapped to a GRIP2 on my FIT4 that was pretty new (20ish rides, ~ 25 total hours on it of trail riding).

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    I hope this is correct, but I did go from an old fork to a new one so it certainly wasn't the seal thing people latter suggested. The damper feels way over damped to me. I will mess with it some more and see if I can make it better, but as it is wide open there is nothing to do but air spring and rebound. I am tempted to just get the coil and then worry about the damper so I can do one thing at a time, but I will see what happens. I hate to invest time in futzing with spacers in the air spring when I plan to use a coil anyway.
    Maybe yours is over damped. I've had my fox 36 fit4 push tuned so the damper valving is customized to my weight, bike, and riding style. It's possible you could benefit from that. But that is a set up issue, not anything inherently wrong with the damper or fork.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpdemello View Post
    In real life the difference is minimal, but the placebo effect is powerful.

    Fit4 is a very good damper. Reports of it being harsh are likely due to things other than the damper. Grip2 is also very good and has some durability enhancements, but not sufficiently better to justify the upgrade.

    If your fork feels too harsh on square impacts, it's probably the air spring. Try a luftkappe or push low friction seals. Before spending money, you can also try tuning with volume spacers, or even just dialing down rebound and/or increasing/decreasing air pressure. A lot of people seem to attribute poor set up to the fork being bad. Not so, fox36 and fit4 is an excellent product.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Disagree when it comes to the fit4 in the fox 34. I am very experienced with suspension systems and setup and there is nothing I can do to improve the harshness of the fit4 (2020 f34 fit4 mind you) in my 34 factory fork.

    The grip 2 in my fox 36 is fantastic. Even with a service interval that is a bit too long, it's still good. Not so with my 34. Before you chime in about lower leg service intervals etc... I am fanatical about them and do lower leg services once every 4-6 weeks.

  19. #19
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    Not to be argumentative, but you're comparing dampers in two different forks. There are likely be a lot of differences beyond just the damper.

  20. #20
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    Did anyone have experience with updated fox 36 fit4 damper for 2020 year compared to old one?
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-an...or-shocks.html

  21. #21
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    Bump,

    Yeea I'd be interested to know more about the new 2020 FIT4 damper's compression piston and tune.

    Per Vorsrpung, they don't offer the Fractive kit for the 2020 FIT4, so that must mean there is either a substantial difference in design, or it's just not necessary for the 2020 model. I do know that Fox moved to a smaller diameter damper shaft, which changed the seal head and shim stack, and as a result the 2020 FIT4 is a bit softer on damping.

    I was always curious if it was possible to modify the older FIT4 dampers without using a special (and expensive) kit from Vorsprung.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Bump,

    Yeea I'd be interested to know more about the new 2020 FIT4 damper's compression piston and tune.

    Per Vorsrpung, they don't offer the Fractive kit for the 2020 FIT4, so that must mean there is either a substantial difference in design, or it's just not necessary for the 2020 model. I do know that Fox moved to a smaller diameter damper shaft, which changed the seal head and shim stack, and as a result the 2020 FIT4 is a bit softer on damping.

    I was always curious if it was possible to modify the older FIT4 dampers without using a special (and expensive) kit from Vorsprung.
    I think somebody had made a Google Docs spreadsheet with all the various Fox shim tunes. It's gotta be floating around here somewhere. So yeah, it's definitely possible to retune a FIT4. It's got a shit-ton of shims in it compared to the Vorsprung kit, due to the modes.

    The 2020 damper shaft size difference changes the flow too much for it to be directly comparable to anything previous. So even if the Vorsprung kit physically fit, the tunes would still be all wrong.

    Edit-I forgot I had bookmarked it. Props to whoever put it together.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...vsM/edit#gid=0

  23. #23
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    That spreadsheet is interesting, but I'd want to know more about the specifics of how the stacks are changing the overall tune.
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  24. #24
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    I cant tell what on earth is going on there. It looks like a 2 stage stack with a preload shims. Thats some ugly damping.



    I dont know why companies like such complicated damper assemblies. They dont work well. Check out how straight foward and simple the vorsprung piston is. That kind of stack works well, theres not gallons of preload to spike all over.

    If I had a 34, Id go with the fractive kit over grip2.

  25. #25
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    The problem is the Fractive kit is $100.

    On an older damper, you're half way to a newer damper. Granted, a GRIP2 VVC is $300ish, but maybe a 2020+ FIT4 is only $200.

    That's what/why I'm wondering - is the 2020 FIT4 closer to a simplified stack than the older models, and if so, could it be beneficial to update to a newer FIT4 over a Fractive?

    Could the stock compression piston be cheaply modified to match (at least somewhat) the Fractive piston?

    2020 tune is 8 shims vs the Fractive's 6, so it is closer.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    That's what/why I'm wondering - is the 2020 FIT4 closer to a simplified stack than the older models, and if so, could it be beneficial to update to a newer FIT4 over a Fractive?

    Could the stock compression piston be cheaply modified to match (at least somewhat) the Fractive piston?

    2020 tune is 8 shims vs the Fractive's 6, so it is closer.
    The functionality of the 2020 FIT4 is the same as the earlier versions with the 3 mode adjuster. The Fractive kit changes how the adjuster works by completely changing the piston design and function. That's a big part of why the shim count is different, but it is interesting how much they were able to reduce the shim count for 2020. The mode adjuster becomes a 3 position high speed compression adjuster on a Fractive modified FIT4. The open, medium and firm modes are gone.

    That would also make it extremely difficult to match a Fractive piston for less than it would cost to buy one. And as much of a pain in the ass as it is to bleed the FIT4 once you are done swapping parts around, there is no way I would suggest taking on any kind of a piston experiment. Installing a Fractive kit isn't too bad, but the bleed process and the tiny little stupid parts involved in doing it suck out loud.

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