New Fox Talas 130 leaking oil or normal?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New Fox Talas 130 leaking oil or normal?

    My Talas is about 3 weeks old and from day 1, it has leaked a little oil every ride. I thought that it may just be the breaking in period but the leak has not let up? The picture below is an example of how much leaks out of it (after a 3+ hour ride). Is this normal or should I have the LBS look into it? It's my first Fox fork (I've always had RS which didn't leak this much) so I have no past reference.... What do y'all think?
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  2. #2
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    That is a bit too much oil. Take it to the LBS and get it fixed.

  3. #3
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    definitely not good. Take 'er in ASAP for warranty work.

  4. #4
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    I agree with the others...

    ...it's leaking too much oil.

  5. #5
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    I think your LBS is just gonna call Fox and they'll say it's normal.... But I don't know, mine leeks alot to and that's what happened to me.

  6. #6
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    Its normal because Foxes just do this but agree with others, send it back for warranty service and when warranty runs out put in Enduro seals. If you ignore it, it will either eventually run low on oil and stop leaking or start leaking so bad oil will just coat the sliders.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt
    Its normal because Foxes just do this but agree with others, send it back for warranty service and when warranty runs out put in Enduro seals. If you ignore it, it will either eventually run low on oil and stop leaking or start leaking so bad oil will just coat the sliders.
    Your touching yourself. Mine doesn't do this nor does any of the other 10 or so forks on my friends bikes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt
    Its normal because Foxes just do this but agree with others, send it back for warranty service and when warranty runs out put in Enduro seals. If you ignore it, it will either eventually run low on oil and stop leaking or start leaking so bad oil will just coat the sliders.
    riiiiiight.......

  9. #9
    jrm
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    I have the same thing

    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    My Talas is about 3 weeks old and from day 1, it has leaked a little oil every ride. I thought that it may just be the breaking in period but the leak has not let up? The picture below is an example of how much leaks out of it (after a 3+ hour ride). Is this normal or should I have the LBS look into it? It's my first Fox fork (I've always had RS which didn't leak this much) so I have no past reference.... What do y'all think?
    happening on my 05 talas. I havent given it any worry but if your concerned i suggest you ask your shop to take a look at it.

  10. #10
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    update

    went for a 1.5 hour ride today and here is how much oil is coming out... much less (or maybe all the oil already pumped out)...
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    First thing you should know :

    For are not supposed to leak, warranty time !

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    went for a 1.5 hour ride today and here is how much oil is coming out... much less (or maybe all the oil already pumped out)...
    That's more or less how my Vanilla with the original Fox seals would look after a ride. (I'm using Enduro Fork seals on my Vanilla now and see no oil on the stanchions after a ride.) I also have a 2004 Fox Talas with the original seals. It doesn't leak much oil at all.

  13. #13
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    Fork Service

    flipnidaho,

    You need to stop riding that fork and get it serviced ASAP. Contact Fox and get an RA.

    Fox 32mm Forx are very sensitive to oil volume. The amount that you're losing IS damaging the fork every time that you ride it. Even worse, you could potentially get hurt riding an improperly functioning fork.

    Give them a call.

    Darren

  14. #14
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    My apologies

    Quote Originally Posted by jdcamb
    Your touching yourself. Mine doesn't do this nor does any of the other 10 or so forks on my friends bikes.
    I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post. I just seen these fork do this, yes a small minority of them but often enough to make me wonder. That and the posts i see here on mtbr may have lead me to the wrong conclusions.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ht=leaking+fox

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND
    flipnidaho,

    You need to stop riding that fork and get it serviced ASAP. Contact Fox and get an RA.

    Fox 32mm Forx are very sensitive to oil volume. The amount that you're losing IS damaging the fork every time that you ride it. Even worse, you could potentially get hurt riding an improperly functioning fork.

    Give them a call.

    Darren
    You better pay attention to this guy, he know's what he's talking about. I' either send it to Fox, or service it yourself if you have the ability to do so. Don't buy Fox seals. Do yourself a favor and get some of these.....
    enduro seals

  16. #16
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    The corporate reply

    Here is the reply I got from Fox this morning:
    "The wipers are designed to lubricate themselves, you will see a build up of dirt and oil on them after a ride.
    The right side usually produces more of a film because it has your cartridge and 3 times as much oil as the left leg.
    Included is some dust wiper & bushing information for you."
    I asked the same question again and sent the picture asking if this was a problem because I think the answer above is somewhat vague. I'm much happier with Push's answer to my email since it was very definitive and I'm also more inclined to send them my fork instead of to Fox (even if the fork is 3 weeks old and still under warranty. I also ordered Enduro seals and will be scheduling to put them on just in case (or send it to Push directly but I'm afraid they'll use the 05 seals again, replicating the problem in a few weeks).

  17. #17
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    Fox seals are better than Enduro seals. Your seals are defective, not all Fox seals will leak oil instantly. I have run various Fox Forx since their inception w/o a single incident of leaking seals. My suggestion is to send the fork into Fox for warranty work and see what happens. Most likely the seals in your fork were damaged at the factory during installation nothing more. Even if you go with Push I'd still keep the Fox seals.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by punkassean
    Fox seals are better than Enduro seals.
    Can you provide some reasons why...?

  19. #19
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    One more response from Fox

    I resent the picture and asked again if it was something to worry about... The response... I'll probably take this offline with Fox after this as I don't want to bore anyone with my ordeal...
    "The harder or longer the forks are ridden, the more of a film is produced.
    Also since the fork is an open oil bath design, lying the fork/bike on its side or hanging it upside down will cause more of a coating because the foam rings behind the wipers become saturated with oil.
    Yours does not look bad if your riding pretty hard, it may also be that since it is new, the grease that is packed into them might be migrating out."
    FWIW, all my bikes are stored and transported right side up....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    Can you provide some reasons why...?
    I have heard users complain of more friction and comparable or shorter lifespan than stock seals. I and many others have had great luck with stock Fox seals, just because he got a defective set doesn't mean he should scrap Fox seals altogether.

    RM thread about Enduro seals:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...uro+fork+seals

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by punkassean
    Thanks for the link. I just read through it and it seems that the primary complaints are 1) leakage / blown seals, 2) premature seal wear, and 3) more stiction than Fox seals.

    I installed a set of Enduro seals on my Fox Vanilla not long ago. I can understand the stiction complaint as I've experienced this myself. I will say that it's become less of an issue as the seals have broken in. (I think the application of Finish Line Stanchion Lube has helped somewhat too.) I've seen absolutely no leakage from the Enduro seals and I can't comment on their longevity since I only installed them recently.

    One of my concerns prior to purchasing the Enduro seals was whether or not they could actually be harmful to the fork stanchions. The Enduro seals dispense with the foam ring thus eliminating a source of lubrication for the seal itself. It seemed to me that this could result in increased friction between the seal and stanchion, particularly if some contaminants worked their way in between the seal and stanchion. (But this can be easily be argued the other way too. A seal which allows a thin film of oil to coat the stanchion will attract more dust and grit and could facilitate contamination of the seal.) I could find no anecdotal evidence of any stanchion damage occurring due to the use of Enduro Fork seals. Also, many of the suspension experts who habituate this forum swear by them, so I decided to give them a try.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    Thanks for the link. I just read through it and it seems that the primary complaints are 1) leakage / blown seals, 2) premature seal wear, and 3) more stiction than Fox seals.
    Read it again. There is only one referrence to a Fox fork in the entire thread. That poster says "1000 times better than stock." The main complaints are regarding big-hit Marzocchi kits (Monster T, Super T). Look how old the thread is as well. The Monster Kit has gotten a completely new oil seal since then. The Psylo stiction complaints are legitimate. The original blue ones had bad tolerances. The gray wipers are way better and that's why that's all that's available on the site now. Try taking a current poll among Fox users (just do a search and you'll find overwhelming enthusiasm for them).

    Also, the Boxxer Kit has a new wiper and inner oil seal since that thread. The oil seal is heavier duty and the wiper installs easier. They were pounded for an entire season of racing and worked flawlessly (one seal change when the fork was custom painted).

    Just be sure you base you decision on current info, because almost every new batch has some sort of improvement in either design, tolerance, or durometer.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention the rider is Tommy Hollenbaugh. This was his first season racing and he did very well. In the pic below he's racing at Fontana last Sunday (the season's last race) in which he took 1st place and locked up #1 for the year (NORBA Downhill Sport Class).
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    Last edited by Chris2fur; 11-22-2005 at 10:45 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    One of my concerns prior to purchasing the Enduro seals was whether or not they could actually be harmful to the fork stanchions. The Enduro seals dispense with the foam ring thus eliminating a source of lubrication for the seal itself.
    If you invert the fork by rocking your bike back over the rear wheel, the fork fluid will go directly to the bottom of the oil seals and the bushing/stanchion interface. This "pre-lubing" procedure is recommended in our pictorial instructions (to be performed just before riding. Once you are riding, as long as your oil levels are correct, your seals and bushings will receive plenty of lubrication. You'll notice Fox also recommends a similar procedure (and even suggests storing the bike upside down in cases where it is feasible--keeping in mind possible problems with hydro brakes). We feel the pre-ride inversion for a few seconds is fine.



    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    It seemed to me that this could result in increased friction between the seal and stanchion, particularly if some contaminants worked their way in between the seal and stanchion.
    If contaminants work their way anywhere past the wipers, you risk damage due to gritty particles sanding away your stanchion coating. Teardown and cleaning of the fork is the only way to deal with internal contamination. Proper cleaning and lubing of the stanchions will help keep this situation from occuring in the first place.

  24. #24
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    Thanks!

    Chris, Thanks for the info!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    keeping in mind possible problems with hydro brakes.
    Chris, I know this is getting off topic, but would you mind elaborating on the problems that may arise with storing hydro brakes upside-down? I store my bike upside down because I've heard doing so might benefit my Fox fork (and because it's convenient to do so in my garage). I hadn't heard that my hydros might be negatively affected by doing so. Thanks.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcmtb
    Chris, I know this is getting off topic, but would you mind elaborating on the problems that may arise with storing hydro brakes upside-down? I store my bike upside down because I've heard doing so might benefit my Fox fork (and because it's convenient to do so in my garage). I hadn't heard that my hydros might be negatively affected by doing so. Thanks.
    Too bad someone else did not answer this for me, because I don't know a lot about hydros (running the Avid Mechs for a couple of years now). I believe it has to do with possible entrapped air migrating to the calipers when the bike is upside down and not having the brakes grab when you expect them to (due to the compressibility of air). Why the air entrapped in the lines or wherever else it's hiding is not a problem until it migrates is something I don't understand. If you post this question on "brake time" I'll read the responses and maybe we'll both learn something!

  27. #27
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    Love those tires and the seals have outlasted stock fox by 175% so far, enduro seals to me has been a wise upgrade to keep riding. Also the stanshion lube from FL is worth it cause you use so little. Best to less wrench and ride more

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    Love those tires and the seals have outlasted stock fox by 175% so far, enduro seals to me has been a wise upgrade to keep riding. Also the stanshion lube from FL is worth it cause you use so little. Best to less wrench and ride more
    Your mentioning the tires reminded me that I completely spaced giving Tommy credit for his riding and his bike. I've edited the original post now.

  29. #29
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    question for Chris...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Too bad someone else did not answer this for me, because I don't know a lot about hydros (running the Avid Mechs for a couple of years now). I believe it has to do with possible entrapped air migrating to the calipers when the bike is upside down and not having the brakes grab when you expect them to (due to the compressibility of air). Why the air entrapped in the lines or wherever else it's hiding is not a problem until it migrates is something I don't understand. If you post this question on "brake time" I'll read the responses and maybe we'll both learn something!
    I just had the blue seals installed on my old Puhsylo, should I worry about them and just have 'em swapped before I get back on the trail or are they okie dokie?

    Thanks!
    Sorry what?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletbob
    I just had the blue seals installed on my old Puhsylo, should I worry about them and just have 'em swapped before I get back on the trail or are they okie dokie?

    Thanks!
    Well, the biggest problem I've had with the blue wipers for the Psylo and Duke models is customers mangling the wipers during the install. The OD of the insertion area of the wiper is slightly big and it's a major pain getting them in. Since yours are already in, that's half the battle. You have nothing to lose by trying them now. If they break in nicely, you are good to go. If they don't, then you should let me know and I'll get you some gray wipers.

  31. #31
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    great!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Well, the biggest problem I've had with the blue wipers for the Psylo and Duke models is customers mangling the wipers during the install. The OD of the insertion area of the wiper is slightly big and it's a major pain getting them in. Since yours are already in, that's half the battle. You have nothing to lose by trying them now. If they break in nicely, you are good to go. If they don't, then you should let me know and I'll get you some gray wipers.
    Well I had it done at an LBS I trust in Bowda so hopefully I'm good to go!

    Thanks!
    Sorry what?

  32. #32
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    No they don't!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt
    Its normal because Foxes just do this but agree with others, send it back for warranty service and when warranty runs out put in Enduro seals. If you ignore it, it will either eventually run low on oil and stop leaking or start leaking so bad oil will just coat the sliders.
    Only when they're f$%#ed do they leak like that. That's not "normal" on any fork.

  33. #33
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    I have installed 3 sets over the last year on Fox Talas RLC forks and all are doing well and holding up fine. To qualify so are my original Fox seal on my Talas. I just changed the oil on on of those Talas forks per recommendation and the seals are like new on a fork that has 3K on since the seal change. The oil was clean and volume was only off a little.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdcamb
    I have installed 3 sets over the last year on Fox Talas RLC forks and all are doing well and holding up fine. To qualify so are my original Fox seal on my Talas. I just changed the oil on on of those Talas forks per recommendation and the seals are like new on a fork that has 3K on since the seal change. The oil was clean and volume was only off a little.
    Installed 3 sets of which? And the fork you changed the oil on had which seals? Thanks.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris2fur
    Installed 3 sets of which? And the fork you changed the oil on had which seals? Thanks.
    Enduro Fox 32mm seals. Within the week it will be 4 sets. That fork was a Talas RLC.

  36. #36
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    Ordered...

    I ordered the Enduro Fox Seals earlier this week with stanchion lube. I'll have the LBS take apart the Fox and inspect the internals then change the oil and replace the stock seals with the Enduros... Do the Enduros come with instructions specific to the Talas 130?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    I ordered the Enduro Fox Seals earlier this week with stanchion lube. I'll have the LBS take apart the Fox and inspect the internals then change the oil and replace the stock seals with the Enduros... Do the Enduros come with instructions specific to the Talas 130?
    Our instructions are online, but we're still working on the TALAS. However, between what we already have posted and following the steps below, it's one of the easier Fox Forx to work on, since we hightly recommend that you DO NOT MESS WITH THE TALAS INTERNALS.

    Here are the basic steps:

    DIS-ASSEMBLY:

    1) Secure the fork in a work stand or similar arrangement.

    2) Place a large bucket under the fork.

    3) Remove the fixing nut on the damper side (right side from rider's perspective), turn the nut over, and thread it on a few turns, so that exposed threads are visible between the nut and the bottom of the fork leg.

    4) On the TALAS side, do the same thing with the fixing nut (on this side there is a screwdriver slot in the rod to keep it from spinning).

    5) Release the air out of the Schrader valve at the top of the TALAS leg.


    6) On the TALAS side, tap the rod upwards by striking the fixing nut. Be prepared for oil to drain out.

    7) On the damper side, if you have a TALAS R fork, undo the top of the damper/top cap as per the Vanilla instructions. (If you have the RLC, you will need to reference the FOX instructions and remove the additional levers and dials before backing out the damper/top cap).


    8) Tap the rod upwards by striking the fixing nut, and be prepared for LOTS of oil to drain out.

    9) Service the damper and change the seals per our online Vanilla instructions: http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id28.html .

    RE-ASSEMBLY:

    Starting with the uppers and lowers separated, the damper removed and drained, and the new seals and wipers installed:

    1) Pump some air into the TALAS leg to keep the rod extended.

    2) Put the stanchion/crown/steer tube assembly in the bike stand or vise upside down.

    3) Grease the insides of the new seals and wipers.


    4) Start the lower assembly onto the stanchions, but only slide them part way on (you don't want the rod sticking through the hole yet).

    5) Add 20cc 7wt fork fluid through the casting hole on the TALAS side.

    6) Slide the lovers down further until the threaded rod end is sticking out on the TALAS side.

    7) Secure the foot nut on the TALAS side (using either the old or a new crush washer).

    8) Turn the fork back over and slide the damper into place.

    9) Tighten the foot nut on the damper side (using either the old or a new crush washer).

    10) Relieve the air on the TALAS side again so that you can partially compress the fork.

    11) Add the 160 cc of fork fluid incrementally to the damper side, working the damper up and down, as well as extending and compressing the fork so that the oil fills the damper and any other voids.

    12) Tighten the damper top/top cap into the crown and add whatever hardware you need to depending on your fork model. Refer to the Fox manual for proper alignment and adjustment of these knobs and levers.


  38. #38
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    Oy...

    So I think I'm cursed with this fork. I'm in Moab this weekend (and the first time I've gone to Moab WITHOUT a backup bike) riding the Yeti. Did Slickrock and at the end of the ride there was oil dripping down the leg. The next day on the climb up to the Porcupine Rim trailhead, I try to lock the fork out and it doesn't. I turned the blow off threshold full off and it still doesn't lock out completely. I figured that there has been so much oil volume lost that there is now air in the system. The fork still performed well going down Porcupine Rim but on the road ride back, I stopped by Poison Spider to see if they had Enduros or Fox 32 seals since I did not want to risk my neck anymore. They did and told me that my bike will be ready by 1030am the next day. The next day, we swing by and my bike was almost ready. However, the wrench there (Nate-a really good guy), said that my lockout lever did not come with the detent balls that fit next to the 3 set screws. He had to rig a washer to get the compression-lockout-rebound levers to lineup without too much flop. He also said he's never had to work on a fork with seals that bad within the first month (and yes, I wipe down the stanchions after every ride on all my bikes). So now it's back to contacting Fox to get a new lockout lever or get replacement ball bearings. However, the fork is leaking much less oil and did well yesterday on Amasa Back. This should hold me until I get the Enduros. Of course, if anyone knows what size ball bearings are for the detents in the lockout lever, please let me know...

  39. #39
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    Another reason....

    ...to own Marzocchi up front.
    Boogers and Birthdays....the more you have...the harder it is to breath

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    However, the wrench there (Nate-a really good guy), said that my lockout lever did not come with the detent balls that fit next to the 3 set screws. He had to rig a washer to get the compression-lockout-rebound levers to lineup without too much flop.
    The Fox manual states:
    Note about the 3 chrome balls in the lockout lever: The 3 chrome balls are held in by a dab of grease. Do not go beyond 1 1/2 turns on the set screws or the chrome balls may move outward in the side holes beyond the pointed set screws. If this happens, push with a 1.5mm hex key wrench thru the side holes to get the chrome ball back towards the center of and inside of the set screw. DO NOT LOSE YOUR BALLS!!!
    Prior to the fork being worked upon, do you recall there being "flop" with the lockout lever and compression adjustment? If not, you should consider the possibility that the lockout lever came with its full complement of balls, but were lost by the mechanic who worked on your fork.

    I suggest that you take the lockout lever off to see if one or more of the chrome balls are still lurking on the other side of the set screws. If so, you have something you can take to the hardware store to find replacements for those that are missing. If there aren't any chrome balls remaining, just bring the lockout lever with you and use the largest ball that'll fit into one of the inside holes of the lockout lever.

  41. #41

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    I guess Fox just has a corporate line for this problem, but my Fox Vanilla RLC started leaking oil in very similar quantity to the first poster in this thread (my fork started leaking within the first month or two). I called Fox and asked them if I could send it in for warranty (I bought it online) and they said this was perfectly normal on some forks. Despite trying to tell them that the quantity seemed excessive to me, they assured me this was still quite normal.

    Trusting their word, I've ridden it another 6 months, just cleaning the oil on the stanchion after each ride. However, after running across this thread and reading the reviews of Enduro Fork Seals...I'll be ordering a set tonight.

    Very disappointing customer service, especially since it appears that this is far from "normal" behavior for a fork.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: flipnidaho's Avatar
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    In retrospect

    I agree with Kevin B. I looked at the manual and I think the wrench may have removed the grub screws all the way out losing the balls. I'll check on them tonight to make sure that the balls are not loose in the lever and that they used blue loctite on the rebound screw.
    SIberian Yeti- I definitely don't think it's normal. In less than 1 month of riding the fork lost about 60cc's of fluid (or more than 1/3). I have actually received better information from Push Industries which is where my fork will be going in the next couple of weeks for a Push job (and NOT to Fox).

  43. #43
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireboy
    ...to own Marzocchi up front.
    I've broken 3 Marzocchis so far, all a variety of problems. Warranty was denied on all of them.

  44. #44
    Meh.
    Reputation: XSL_WiLL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    I agree with Kevin B. I looked at the manual and I think the wrench may have removed the grub screws all the way out losing the balls. I'll check on them tonight to make sure that the balls are not loose in the lever and that they used blue loctite on the rebound screw.
    SIberian Yeti- I definitely don't think it's normal. In less than 1 month of riding the fork lost about 60cc's of fluid (or more than 1/3). I have actually received better information from Push Industries which is where my fork will be going in the next couple of weeks for a Push job (and NOT to Fox).
    Now that I think of it... Two or three Fox forks came in over the past month or so with crappy seals.

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