New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 111 of 111
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper

    Thought Iíd start this thread as there is very little info about this damper out there. Itís a new thing RS is doing for OE builds. Itís intended to be a cheaper option. I received one in a revelation I got on a complete bike. So far one ride in and it seems pretty good! The design is a simple cartridge style damper with a spring backed ifp and bleed port on top. Very reminiscent of the Fox Grip. However, when I called RS they were quick to say this is a design similar to their Accelerator damper they put in the RS-1. I couldnít get any piston or porting info. So not sure how sophisticated it is. Will be nice if the pistons can accommodate a custom tuned shim stack like the regular bladder chargers. Iíll be tearing it down at some point. Iíll update this thread with detailed pictures and measurements of the guts when I do.
    Last edited by PurpleMtnSlayer; 10-04-2018 at 07:19 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    38
    Hello, do you have any info of the product id or any link and what about the price?

    Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Itís OE only for 2019 so no pricing is available. The only info I could find is on sram.com



    https://www.sram.com/rockshox/produc...ion-charger-rc

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,727
    Charger had some issues of its own... so this is a crappier version of a product that had some issues to begin with?

    What?

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Charger had some issues of its own... so this is a crappier version of a product that had some issues to begin with?

    What?
    Lol. What issues are you referring to? Cheaper to manufacture doesnít necessarily mean crappier. I mean the RS-1 fork that RS claims this damper is designed from was $1500 and praised for its damping characteristics, but itís chassis was too flexy apparently. Fox released the grip as a budget damper, then put it in all its forks including the top of the line stuff. All moto forks use a very similar damper architecture. Until we see piston and valving design we wonít know if this is cheap crap or just simple yet effective.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Fox released the grip as a budget damper, then put it in all its forks including the top of the line stuff

    Fox's marketing team seem to have convinced quite a few people that the GRIP damper in Rhythm forks and the GRIP2 in Factory forks are basically the same.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    915
    Yea I saw this damper when vital or one of the others was going over the 2019 RS stuff. One of the articles mentioned it and I instantly said this is a RS test release as fox did with the GRIP. I ended up buying a charger 2 RC2 damper anyway as I wanted the adjustable HSC but I know in a year or two RS will probably bring a high end version of that damper over. They just make more sense with the self purging and the mechanical piston constantly putting pressure on the oil to prevent any cavitation (avalanche was looking at a nitrogen charged sleev around the charger bladders at one time but it never happened). The design would probably allow more mid valve support without cavitation on the backside of the piston, maybe partly what is going on with the GRIP2 and why itís getting such comments of better support over the old damper while still being supple.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    I have a few rides in. I like the damper and think it might be a really good option. Unfortunately I broke my finger on the third ride and never got a chance to dial in the fork. There arenít many adjustments, only five clicks of LSC, psi, volume spacers and 25 clicks of rebound. So set up is easy and hard to mess up. I think with the self bleed damper design playing around with the shim stacks should be easy and quick. Overall ride impressions are itís supple off the top, supportive through the stroke and doesnít jack on high speed hits or big drops. Only negative is my hands were a little sore after a long downhill with lots of rock gardens, it wasnít too bad and might have been more setup than damper limitations.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    Hi Guys
    I'm also interested in this fork as an upgrade to my trailbike, and as the OP said, I also can not find a single review or topic on it. Am I right in saying its a new fork for 2019, and was not available in 2018 when the first upgraded Revelation (35mm uppers) was released?
    The MOCO RC has been discussed at length in the threads: "2018-rock-shox-revelation-rc" and "shocks-suspension/2018-revelation-rc-pike"

    However The new fork should be a long way from the old ? Some early press releases say its simply a Moco in a bladder, but to me it looks a lot more like a GRIP damper, which as some have stated, ended up being surprisingly good.(pic attached)
    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper-pvd_6849.jpg

    Another concern is regarding all the reviews that the 2018 fork felt harsh and needed quite a bit of tweaking to get it smooth. However with the upgraded Debonair air-spring and new damper this should be sorted.
    I am also quite interested to know how tunable the HSC piston is.

    PurpleMtnSlayer, how is the finger healing up? Two questions: What are you comparing this fork to? secondly, Have you had a chance to pull it apart?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosbefok View Post
    However The new fork should be a long way from the old ? Some early press releases say its simply a Moco in a bladder, but to me it looks a lot more like a GRIP damper, which as some have stated, ended up being surprisingly good.

    PurpleMtnSlayer, how is the finger healing up? Two questions: What are you comparing this fork to? secondly, Have you had a chance to pull it apart?
    Do you have links to those press releases? I heard something about a moco bladder, but sram confirmed this is definitely not that. They said it is basically a sram accelerator damper, which is very similar to the Fox grip damper. I havenít pulled the cartridge apart yet, Iíll be sure to post detailed pics when I do. Theres only 5 clicks of lsc adjustment, so I too am hoping for a tunable compression piston.

    I have a Yari with an avalanche damper. That damper is really amazing. Itís able to be super smooth and supple yet have tons of support thanks to the high speed blow off valve. Maybe the most amazing part is it never looses traction even in slippery off camber chunk. The open bath charger is not that, no fork can be without a hsbv, but it does seem to be pretty smooth and supple with good support. Like I mentioned I hit a few big doubles and drops, it was controlled and plush and it didnít hydro jack at all. I rode the Yari with the moco a few times, it was terrible!! Fairly plush in the parking lot, but it would basically hydro lock on big hits, it was harsh as hell. And it would dive almost all the way through itís travel when breaking or hitting a rock garden, so sketchy! Iíve owned a Ď14 pike, a Ď12 32, Ď16 & Ď17 36 fit4s, and bombers in the past. Compared to the best of those it feels like a more refined damper.

    The pinky is casted up for five weeks . Hopefully Iíll be able to ride shortly after it comes off.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    That's terrible. Healing vibes bro.
    You seem to be well qualified to judge. I have an option to buy a mates used pike Charger MK1 damper if it would fit and was any better. We have local South African Push options but I might rather try get an Avalanche, and tinker with it myself. That's if they make them for this fork. But let's see first. I'm buying a trail HT since my FS is getting to heavy for me to keep up with the racers I sometimes ride with and I plan to simply swap the Fork and FLOW MK3 wheels to my trailbike to make it a little more battle worthy.

    Just a thought; I wish RS would add a custom tune ID like Fox does with all their products these days.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    So you already have a Ď18 rev? If so any damper will be an improvement. The mk1 pike had issues with the air spring, but that charger damper was decent for sure. For questions on fit and tune I call sram dealer service 800-346-2928 (US till free). Theyíve always been very helpful to me. I donít think push offers anything for that damper anymore. They have the coil conversion, but Iíd rather have the debonair spring in a trail bike fork, but again, for an enduro race bike coil wins. I think there are some other mk1 charger upgrade options out there, like Fast. The open bath charger is not available a/m atm, as it is only available on complete Ď19 builds. Iíve seen Kona, Transition and GT offering it so far.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    So you already have a Ď18 rev? If so any damper will be an improvement. The mk1 pike had issues with the air spring, but that charger damper was decent for sure. For questions on fit and tune I call sram dealer service 800-346-2928 (US till free). Theyíve always been very helpful to me. I donít think push offers anything for that damper anymore. They have the coil conversion, but Iíd rather have the debonair spring in a trail bike fork, but again, for an enduro race bike coil wins. I think there are some other mk1 charger upgrade options out there, like Fast. The open bath charger is not available a/m atm, as it is only available on complete Ď19 builds. Iíve seen Kona, Transition and GT offering it so far.
    Hey Sorry I think I confused you. No I currently still have a 2013 REV but I'm getting a Silverback Slade trial as a second bike and plan to swap the wheels and Fork over to my current bike so I have a lighter HT and a more capable trailbike. So yes, Its a fork spec'ed on a complete build. What bike did yours come on?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    Here's the Press release I was talking about..

    https://bikerumor.com/2018/03/20/201...adds-debonair/
    TIP OF AFRICA

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Good plan you got there. That Slade Trail looks killer! How much is it going for in your country? Doesnít look like itíll be available in the us. I got mine in Rev on a GT Sensor Expert. I say the open bath charger shouldnít stop anyone from buying the complete they want. It has the potential to be better than the bladder type and at worst you have a good chassis for an Avi, Novy, Fast or Charger 2 damper.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elsinore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    586
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Good plan you got there. That Slade Trail looks killer! How much is it going for in your country? Doesnít look like itíll be available in the us. I got mine in Rev on a GT Sensor Expert. I say the open bath charger shouldnít stop anyone from buying the complete they want. It has the potential to be better than the bladder type and at worst you have a good chassis for an Avi, Novy, Fast or Charger 2 damper.
    Are you sure this fork is only available as OE? This damper seems promising. It would be worth a shot to buy a charger Yari or Revelation if itís priced similarly to the motion control versions

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    I wish one of the online mags would do a Review on this fork. Actually quite surprising, as If the media is only hungry for $1000 plus forks and this is not even news worthy.

    I'm getting it on a bike that would be retailing for around $1200 I would think, in the US. It comes with a decent spec and FLOW wheels so Its probably only marginally more expensive than the previous RC models.
    TIP OF AFRICA

  18. #18
    Professional Bad Ass
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    488
    The main issue the Charger has is blowing the bladder, and this design eliminates the bladder. IMO, IFP designs like this one are more reliable for people who ride hard and often, but of course it has to be matched to decent valving. This design is almost certainly better than MoCo used in RS's mid-range forks, which I personally hate the feel of: too much damping when the valve is closed and too little when it's open.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosbefok View Post
    I wish one of the online mags would do a Review on this fork. Actually quite surprising, as If the media is only hungry for $1000 plus forks and this is not even news worthy.

    I'm getting it on a bike that would be retailing for around $1200 I would think, in the US. It comes with a decent spec and FLOW wheels so Its probably only marginally more expensive than the previous RC models.
    I think itís more that RS didnít think it was news worthy. Or didnít want to bring attention to it. The first two sram techs I talk to had no idea it was a thing. I reached out to two big bike shops and a couple magazine writers who all did first looks on the Sensor, no one had heard of this damper, even after they demoíd it.

    What bike are you looking at?

  20. #20
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    The tricky thing is that how does one identify a fork with this damper?

    I wonder what the label on the fork says?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    I agree, with your question as well as PurpleMtSlayer's take. Perhaps they went the low-key way to introduce it in a market to not distract to much from the recent upgrades to the PIKE and Lyric. Therefore not even naming it properly, The description on SRAM's website says "New Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper" While its actually the "Accelerator cartridge".

    Anyway, Enough waffling.. I wish I can get mine now, but Im only getting it at the end of November.
    Meanwhile, Hows that [email protected]?
    TIP OF AFRICA

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper

    Well itís still in a cast so you can call it a pretty stinky pinky. On the bright side the you can thank the boredom for these.



    As you can see itís a very similar layout to the grip damper. The rebound piston is plastic. Itís shimmed and has a normal low speed needle adjuster. Midvalve is a single valve and wave spring.

    I couldnít figure out how to disassemble the compression assembly. Thereís a small snap ring I couldnít get off one handed, marked by the red arrow above. If anyone has any ideas let me know. The piston is metal and plastic. It looks like there are low speed bleed through ports and an adjuster to control their size. Iím hoping thereís also a shimmed high speed circuit inside the blue anodized part. Thereís no groove in the damper shaft to bleed from the inner seal, rather it has just enough room for the outter ifp oring to pass over the bleed port on the damper body tube. Pretty sure this is going to cause me to shoot oil everywhere when I bleed it not just spill it like usual.
    Last edited by PurpleMtnSlayer; 10-30-2018 at 10:48 PM.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    The tricky thing is that how does one identify a fork with this damper?

    I wonder what the label on the fork says?
    It says Charger RC. Which is confusing given that was the name of a bladder style charger from 2013-2018.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    Nice Work Holmes!
    https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-ride...ion-fork-2015/
    I'd confirm that its the same type/arrangement damper, but not 100% the same..It could simply be the arrangement that had to change since the RS-1 had no dials at the top so everything was attached to the bottom??

    Here is a comparison between your damper and the RS-1 from the SRAM manual
    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper-dampers.jpg

    Thanks for the tare down. I'm no expert but the rebound seems pretty straight forward not to dissimilar from the MOCO? That plastic part looks awfully familiar. The holes in the outside of the compression piston must be the 5 clicks for the Lowspeed compression which probably has a wavespring backed compression plate behind it.

    All guesswork though.
    TIP OF AFRICA

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112


    This pic of the complete accelerator damper shows itís the exact same configuration as the new charger. However all the circuits look la little different.

    The big difference with the moco is this is not an emulsion damper and the compression and rebound circuits are housed within the damper body. So itís more limited than the moco in terms of aftermarket compression upgrades.

    Iíd really like to disassemble the compression assembly. But not sure how, it might be pressed together? Thereís no instructions on either the accelerator or open bath charger service manuals.

  26. #26
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    PurpleMtnSlayer,

    Do you have a picture of the labels on the back of the fork legs saying "Charger RC?"

    Not that I don't trust you, I just want to see it.

    I'm not super suspension literate, but am I understand that the Charger RC is similar to the GRIP damper in that there is external Low Speed Compression and Rebound, and potentially High Speed Compression and High Speed Rebound that may be adjusted via shim stacks?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Iím giving up on taking the compression assembly apart for now. Itís not obvious and I donít have any problems to solve yet.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    No worries man. If it ain't broken don't fix it. Sooner or later there will be some YouTube cowboy taking his apart. But for now. Thanks for the trouble. My concerns are put to bed and I'm quite happy to be getting it. Now the wait!

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    They just make more sense with the self purging and the mechanical piston constantly putting pressure on the oil to prevent any cavitation (avalanche was looking at a nitrogen charged sleev around the charger bladders at one time but it never happened). The design would probably allow more mid valve support without cavitation on the backside of the piston, maybe partly what is going on with the GRIP2 and why itís getting such comments of better support over the old damper while still being supple.
    I overlooked this thought when you first posted it. But I think youíre definitely right. The spring on the ifp is quite firm, much firmer than I imagine the bladder pressure is. And the damper is much more supportive than the original charger. I havenít used an rc2 so not sure if itís midvalve is also improved. Interestingly the midvalve is a quite small single valve and spring.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    23
    Did anyone successfully get in to the compression assembly? I've got one of these and being a very light rider could use a lighter compression tune.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    It was not obvious, so I gave up on the compression assembly cause the parts arenít serviceable. The disassembly and bleed process was so freaking easy tho, if I were you Iíd play around with oil weights. Try the maxima Plush 0 wt stuff, itís amazing. Also if you havenít already, take out all the air spring volume spacers.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bosbefok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    15
    I should probably mention that I never ended up getting this fork. The Shipment of Bikes I was getting kept getting delayed and still hasnt landed. Glad I opted out. I Ended Up Getting a fork I never even considered before, A formula 35. It was a great deal and upon reading a review It got me interested. Its sure not as nice looking as a blacked out RS, But Its been a lot of fun "puzzeling" with it. It makes use of a closed circuit charger style damper which has little pre-set compression tune valves. Its really cool. I might need to get a firmer compression, but its much simpler than trying to alter the compression shims yourself. The fork Is incredibly supple and travel is adjustable like the old Rock Shox were, by adding spacers to the air spring plunger. Anyway. Thanks for all the help, and Enjoy your Revelations.
    TIP OF AFRICA

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    It was not obvious, so I gave up on the compression assembly cause the parts arenít serviceable. The disassembly and bleed process was so freaking easy tho, if I were you Iíd play around with oil weights. Try the maxima Plush 0 wt stuff, itís amazing. Also if you havenít already, take out all the air spring volume spacers.
    I have a 2019 SID RC and I upgraded the cartridge to have LBS adjustment. I don't feel like I have a lot of range on the LBS (on the soft side), I was considering going up in oil WT, very easy and common thing to do on motorcycle. How hard it is and what would be the bleeding procedure on one of those?

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper

    The SID product page on the RS website doesnít mention the RC. But assuming it uses this same damper: it is extremely easy. You can find the bleed instructions in the lyrik/Yari or pike/revelation manual. All you need is oil and a strap wrench. A vise is helpful but not needed. I love how easy it is, because it means you can open it up to make internal adjustments without any trouble.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    The SID product page on the RS website doesnít mention the RC. But assuming it uses this same damper: it is extremely easy. You can find the bleed instructions in the lyrik/Yari or pike/revelation manual. All you need is oil and a strap wrench. A vise is helpful but not needed. I love how easy it is, because it means you can open it up to make internal adjustments without any trouble.
    Thanks

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    These dampers are now stock in most 2020 ďSelectĒ models of the Pike, Lyrik, Boxxer and Sid.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: the_joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,257
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    These dampers are now stock in most 2020 ďSelectĒ models of the Pike, Lyrik, Boxxer and Sid.
    The one you described in post #22? So is this what they are calling Charger RC? I am still confused about their naming conventions. And it's not really clear in the press releases.
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper

    It is pretty unclear to me also, but several of the mag write ups state there are two architectures now: the ifp style charger RC and the bladder style charger 2.1 (RCT3 and RC2). My understand of the Charger RC evolution is:

    2014(?)-2018 bladder style ďCharger RC (Charger 1)Ē

    2019 bladder style ďCharger RC (Charger 2)Ē in pike and lyrik
    2019 ifp style ďCharger RCĒ in revelation and yari

    2020 ifp style ďCharger RCĒ in pike and lyrik select
    2020 ? In Revelation and yari

    My assumption is the fork I have, 2019 revelation Charger RC, is the same as the 2020 pike select Charger RC. I say this bc the mag write ups say the select series doesnít get the fancy seals or fluids, just the ifp style damper.

    The fork is quite good, perhaps a bit over damped in the low speed stuff but very supportive and with a nice blowoff on high speed stuff. I havenít felt it choking at all. Rebound is also fast yet controlled as it doesnít pack up or buck on big hits. Rebuilds are simple. Tuning the rebound and mid-valve would be quite simple. If the compression assembly comes apart without breaking (it may be pressed together) or needing special tools itíd be a great damper for home fettlers.
    Last edited by PurpleMtnSlayer; 04-05-2019 at 12:10 PM. Reason: To correct damper naming

  39. #39
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    Doubt it.

    Revelation and Yari are lower end forks. If the Charger 2 was an improvement over Charger 1, and Charger RC was a cheaper way of offering Charger performance, why would the still high-end Pike and Lyrik Select offer the cheaper RC? Why not offer the Charger 2?

    I think the Pike Select is Charger 2, just like the Pike RCT3 and Pike RC.

    I think the Charger RC Damper is still something unique and more similar to that of the RS-1.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Doubt it.

    Revelation and Yari are lower end forks. If the Charger 2 was an improvement over Charger 1, and Charger RC was a cheaper way of offering Charger performance, why would the still high-end Pike and Lyrik Select offer the cheaper RC? Why not offer the Charger 2?

    I think the Pike Select is Charger 2, just like the Pike RCT3 and Pike RC.

    I think the Charger RC Damper is still something unique and more similar to that of the RS-1.
    I guess you missed this:


    https://bikerumor.com/2019/04/04/roc...re-controlled/

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,784
    Lyrik and Pike Select are IFP based Charger dampers.

    Yari and Revelation Charger RC dampers are not as advanced as the Select charger dampers.

    Yari and Revelation RC are still Motion control based dampers.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Yari and Revelation Charger RC dampers are not as advanced as the Select charger dampers.
    I guess you know something nobody else does? Where did you find info about the select charger damper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Yari and Revelation RC are still Motion control based dampers.
    Nobody cares about Motion Control garbage.

    Last edited by PurpleMtnSlayer; 04-06-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: the_joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,257
    The bikerumor piece says it has a gas-backed IFP, while the one posted above is clearly a coil spring. Clear as mud
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by the_joe View Post
    The bikerumor piece says it has a gas-backed IFP, while the one posted above is clearly a coil spring. Clear as mud
    Nice catch! But what the hell?

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: the_joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    1,257
    Bikerumor stuff is riddled with errors/misprints
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,784
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    I guess you know something nobody else does? Where did you find info about the select charger damper?]
    In the tech docs.

    The Yari and Revelation top models are of a lower spec than the lowest Lyrik and Pike models.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,784
    Quote Originally Posted by the_joe View Post
    The bikerumor piece says it has a gas-backed IFP, while the one posted above is clearly a coil spring. Clear as mud
    Its coil backed.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    In the tech docs.

    The Yari and Revelation top models are of a lower spec than the lowest Lyrik and Pike models.
    Links?

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Its coil backed.
    How would a gas backed self bleeding damper even work? Coil makes sense.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,784
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Links?
    Just got on the SRAM site, it only mentions a few differences but they are there for all to see.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Just got on the SRAM site, it only mentions a few differences but they are there for all to see.
    Come on Rick what page are you referring to??

    https://launch.sram.com/en/rockshox/...ts/pike-select

    Now Iím reading here itís another charger RC bladder type

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,784
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Come on Rick what page are you referring to??

    https://launch.sram.com/en/rockshox/...ts/pike-select

    Now Iím reading here itís another charger RC bladder type
    One has multiple bleed ports, the other has one. When they are apart one will have a proper shimmed rebound piston, the other won't. Just have a look on the Sram documents properly.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Um what documents? The vagueness of your comments is causing me to question their validity.
    I had a proper look at the new service manual and it seems to indicate the 2019 Charger RC found the revelation is the same damper as the Charger RC found in the 2020 pike select. The damper rebuild section, does not note any difference between the two. There are these two exploded diagrams that are functionally identical as well.


    https://www.sram.com/sites/default/f...lish_rev_a.pdf

    The only update I could find is they now use a vise block set for service, where last year they used a strap wrench.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,784
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Um what documents? The vagueness of your comments is causing me to question their validity.
    I had a proper look at the new service manual and it seems to indicate the 2019 Charger RC found the revelation is the same damper as the Charger RC found in the 2020 pike select. The damper rebuild section, does not note any difference between the two. There are these two exploded diagrams that are functionally identical as well.
    ...
    Last edited by Rick Draper; 04-06-2019 at 07:38 AM.

  55. #55
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    Welp, those service image cutaways make it look like the Pike Select and Charger RC Damper found in the Yari and Revelation are in fact identical.

    It would be fun to tear apart a Pike Select and compare with the pictures of the Yari RC posted earlier.

    Pretty crazy how when you look at the GRIP2 damper how similar it is to the GRIP and Charger RC dampers. Makes ya wonder if Rockshox might not make a more advanced version of the Charger RC in the future...
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  56. #56
    Turns right, slides left
    Reputation: 410sprint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    645
    Part of the confusion here is thanks to the fact that RS announced the new 2020 Pike, Lyrik, Boxxer and SID but they are still listing the 2019 products on their website, including the now old versions of the Pike, Lyrik, Boxxer and SID. So far, other forks such as the Revelation and Yari are not included in the 2020 changes.

    These 2020 forks can be ordered now and come in three different levels: Ultimate, Select+ and Select. The Select+ models are only available OEM.

    Select+ and Ultimate models of Pike, Lyrik and Boxxer use the Charger 2.1. This new bladder damper will be available in RC2 or RCT3 varieties. Select models will use the Charger damper which uses an IFP instead of a bladder.

  57. #57
    MCMXCV
    Reputation: D Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,277
    Sub'd...

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    26
    But what are the differences between the Revelation Charger RC and the Pike Select then? Chassis is the same and with both having the Charger RC now internals seem to be identical as well. Or will they discontinue the Revelation Charger RC in favor of the
    Pike and maybe a higher price tag due to better reputation of the Pike?

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    97
    What is the performance of this IPF based charger RC damper in revelation and yari? How does it compare to charger 1 or charger 2 damper? I was not able to find any information on line.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by s-master View Post
    What is the performance of this IPF based charger RC damper in revelation and yari? How does it compare to charger 1 or charger 2 damper? I was not able to find any information on line.
    I would love to know to. Very little information on this damper online, non existent.

    If I recall correctly the Fox grip was used in competitions and won, with a very similar IFP design which beat all of Fox's own bladder dampers.

    How does this damper compare to Charger 2?

    Of course there is Charger 2.1 now which has even further improvements, at great costs!

    I know MoCo is poor performer, that thing was terrible over repeated large roots.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    I find it odd nobody is talking about this damperís performance but me. Iíve seen several bike reviews that had this fork on the bike, but never a mention of the fork. Iíve commented on those and got no response from the writers. I posted earlier in the thread that Iíve called sram tech support with questions they didnít even know this damper was a thing, except one guy who said it was similar to the rs1ís accelerator damper.

    No doubt itís a simple damper with plastic pistons and (as far as I can tell) a compression assembly that doesnít come apart. The midvalve is a simple spring and the rebound stack only has three shims. Not even sure the main piston is shimmed (I couldnít disassemble the assembly). But itís incredibly easy to service, bleed and tune the midvale and rebound. It also performs wonderfully.

    The charger 1 damper base valve was over damped, causing harshness. The charger 2 base valve was under damped, causing harshness. This charger is just right for me at 175 pounds. Itís supportive and doesnít dive, but also absorbs trail chatter well and blows off nicely.

    Iíve owned a fox 32, fox 36 fit4 with e17 tune, fit4 push tune, x fusion sweep, charger 1, charger 2, this charger rc and avalanche. Iíd say it feel closest to the fit4 e17.

    I got no clue what RS is doing. The 19 revelation charger rc and 20 pike select seem to be identical. Maybe that was the way to make this oem only fork an aftermarket option?

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4
    PurpleMtnSlayer

    Your posts have been most helpful, thank you very much for taking your time to post all the information. Yes, it appears the Pike select will be the same fork with just different oil? Maybe this fork is as good the other high end forks, but because it doesn't have HSC adjustment it is classed as lower / mid end?

    Do you think the charger 2 damper may have been set-up for someone of a different weight? Perhaps each damper has a different set-up for an average weight. I know that Rockshox have to pick a rough average to use for every rider in the world...

    I weight the exact same as you (I need to burn a bit off however lol)

    So you prefer this damper over charger 2 and all the others?

    May I ask how you think the small bump performance compares against others? I however understand that Debonair, PSI, tokens and many other factors will factor into this.

    Thank you!
    Last edited by LaurenceGough; 05-04-2019 at 01:32 PM.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Most of us could probably loose a few pounds. Having a bike you love certainly helps! Youíre right about setup variables! Another big factor of feel is speed. This is a damper that feels best when youíre riding fast. In other words not the most sensitive when youíre riding slower. But itís really supportive and blows off for higher speed stuff. Thatís why Iíd compare it to the fox fit4. Some call that damper harsh, but it just needs to be ridden hard to move more easily. I also had it set to 130mm travel, so thereís not a lot of travel before it starts to firm up in the mid stroke. For me out of the box it delivers a better feel compared to the soft and divey feel of the charger 2 and the too firm charger 1. But those are more sophisticated dampers that can be tuned to your needs. So the performance floor is pretty high on this damper but the ceiling is not as high as others. If you want something that performs well, is relatively inexpensive and home serviceable this is a great option!

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    90
    Was googling about new chargers and found this thread. Thanks for the pics. So basically Charger RC = another take on marzocchi DBC CR from 2012... But RS being RS do it with a plastic leftovers from motion control.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by graved1gger View Post
    Was googling about new chargers and found this thread. Thanks for the pics. So basically Charger RC = another take on marzocchi DBC CR from 2012... But RS being RS do it with a plastic leftovers from motion control.
    Um no not even close.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Um no not even close.
    Look at you own pics. It has spring preloaded ifp with an oil bleed hole on the tube. Oil purge hole as it is called on the pic earlier the same as GRIP and DBC CR. The only difference is shimmed rebound opposed to simple checkvalve on CR

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper-cr_grip_rc.jpg

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    I may have misunderstood what you were saying about leftover plastic from moco. You literally meant the raw plastic and not the plastic parts. I guess?

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    I may have misunderstood what you were saying about leftover plastic from moco. You literally meant the raw plastic and not the plastic parts. I guess?
    Yeah, and also a sarcastic reference to that compression assembly.

    Must admit, I am a bit biased towards RS forks, but it is great that RS decided to use this design: it works, it is pretty much bombproof (no teared apart bladders at the worst possible time, cracked or bent plastic motion control units, etc), can be a bit revalved and it is in a lower end segment (hooray, more competition on somewhat pocket friendly forks market - big win for a customers).

    Nevertheless, I don't get why they decided to go for it. I get why Fox went for this design, they bought Mz and needed a damper which is easy to produce (CTD was awful, FIT - expensive), put Mz damper in Fox chassis, saw that it was a success, decided to improve on it and made grip2, based of c2r2. But why RS? They had everything covered, more or less.

  69. #69
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    Quote Originally Posted by graved1gger View Post
    Yeah, and also a sarcastic reference to that compression assembly.

    Must admit, I am a bit biased towards RS forks, but it is great that RS decided to use this design: it works, it is pretty much bombproof (no teared apart bladders at the worst possible time, cracked or bent plastic motion control units, etc), can be a bit revalved and it is in a lower end segment (hooray, more competition on somewhat pocket friendly forks market - big win for a customers).

    But why RS? They had everything covered, more or less.
    It does seem a bit strange they'd waste time on producing another damper when they could just sell the Charger 1 or Charger 2 or something in the lower end products. I have a feeling they didn't want to undercut the Charger 2 upgrade pricing.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4
    From what I understand the spring ipf is cheaper to manafacture, most likely because the bleed process is much easier so less time is spent producing it. I can tell you now the performance blows the moco dampers out of the water over rapid roots etc, massive difference. This is also comparing debonair spring Vs standard soloair so that may have helped a lot too.

    It looks closest to the inverted RS fork damper as previously mentioned in this topic, and that fork is not a cheap one!!

    Nothing like the moco design...

    Also this fork is the same as the pike select option with different decals, so you know the performance should be good. I will get the new skf seals and latest oil to make it the same as the 2020 fork come service time and it should be one of the market leaders!

    If I am correct as well you can swap in the charger 2.1 damper at a later date anyway?

  71. #71
    Turns right, slides left
    Reputation: 410sprint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    I find it odd nobody is talking about this damperÔŅĹs performance but me. IÔŅĹve seen several bike reviews that had this fork on the bike, but never a mention of the fork. IÔŅĹve commented on those and got no response from the writers. I posted earlier in the thread that IÔŅĹve called sram tech support with questions they didnÔŅĹt even know this damper was a thing, except one guy who said it was similar to the rs1ÔŅĹs accelerator damper.

    No doubt itÔŅĹs a simple damper with plastic pistons and (as far as I can tell) a compression assembly that doesnÔŅĹt come apart. The midvalve is a simple spring and the rebound stack only has three shims. Not even sure the main piston is shimmed (I couldnÔŅĹt disassemble the assembly). But itÔŅĹs incredibly easy to service, bleed and tune the midvale and rebound. It also performs wonderfully.

    The charger 1 damper base valve was over damped, causing harshness. The charger 2 base valve was under damped, causing harshness. This charger is just right for me at 175 pounds. ItÔŅĹs supportive and doesnÔŅĹt dive, but also absorbs trail chatter well and blows off nicely.

    IÔŅĹve owned a fox 32, fox 36 fit4 with e17 tune, fit4 push tune, x fusion sweep, charger 1, charger 2, this charger rc and avalanche. IÔŅĹd say it feel closest to the fit4 e17.

    I got no clue what RS is doing. The 19 revelation charger rc and 20 pike select seem to be identical. Maybe that was the way to make this oem only fork an aftermarket option?
    I agree, I'm surprised this damper (IFP- Internal Floating Piston) is not being discussed more here and in the media. I have spent a month on the 2020 Pike Select and I'm impressed with what RS has positioned as their 35mm fork entry level damper. It's much better than the original Charger (bladder damper).

    Question for Johnny C7, Dougal, Avalanche , Push--- I would like to hear any feedback you have about this damper.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    53
    Hi I have been given the opportunity to purchase a brand new Revelation RC Charger 27.5" 150mm at a very good price. It has been taken off a brand new VITUS Escarpe VR 2019.

    https://www.wiggle.se/vitus-escarpe-...nx-eagle-2019/

    As I understand it, this exact model cannot be purchased separately, only as per described above, i.e OEM, as part of a complete bike.

    What is the reason behind this? Feels like a marketing stunt to get people buying (the more expensive) Pike.

    Would Revelation model described above be comparable to the more expensive Pike 2020 year model?

    What version of the charger unit has been used? RC 2.1?
    2011 Stumpjumper FSR Elite, 650b conversion
    1996 Stumpjumper M2, 26"
    2013 Cube Limited Race, 29"
    2014 Cube Peloton Road Bike

  73. #73
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    So, what's the final verdict on Charger RC as equipped in the Revelation?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    958
    Had one of these forks in for a service this week, wasn't going inside the damper but i ran it on Rory the Dynosaur to see how it held up and remembered this thread so figured I would offer some comments-

    The rebound range is huuuuge so anyone other that the biggest riders should have no problem here

    Fairly high friction and spring force from the IFP compared to higher end dampers which is the only real negative I found

    Compression damping is very digressive ie strong low speed damping even in the softest setting but little to no high speed damping.

    Since the inside of the valve is still a mystery, going by the results I would expect it to be a spool valve and the adjuster is changing the port area exposed to the face of the valve, rather than free bleed.

    Overall it should in theory work pretty good, definitely a step up from Motion control and I would expect to be comparable to a grip damper
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  75. #75
    Turns right, slides left
    Reputation: 410sprint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Had one of these forks in for a service this week, wasn't going inside the damper but i ran it on Rory the Dynosaur to see how it held up and remembered this thread so figured I would offer some comments-

    The rebound range is huuuuge so anyone other that the biggest riders should have no problem here

    Fairly high friction and spring force from the IFP compared to higher end dampers which is the only real negative I found

    Compression damping is very digressive ie strong low speed damping even in the softest setting but little to no high speed damping.

    Since the inside of the valve is still a mystery, going by the results I would expect it to be a spool valve and the adjuster is changing the port area exposed to the face of the valve, rather than free bleed.

    Overall it should in theory work pretty good, definitely a step up from Motion control and I would expect to be comparable to a grip damper
    Thanks for the follow up. Very interesting findings.

    After another month of riding, I'm still impressed with this damper. It is a big improvement from the Motion Control. I feel it is very comparable to the Fox Grip damper.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    24
    Recently purchased a new nukeproof with the charger 2 lyrik RC. Stoked someone is talking about/ tearing this thing apart.

    Super bummed to hear it feels like E17 fit4 though, and then sprint car basically confirms total lack of high speed damping on his dyno. I replaced my E17 fit4 with fox bladder RC2 and never looked back, I run the high speed very tight on this fork.

    Hoping someone gets the comp unit apart, would be nice to add some high speed support.

    Gonna be tearing my hair out waiting for this thing lol. I'll probably think it's great anyways, i run into fatigue issues with my 36 that I hardly ever experience with pike/yari/lyriks.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    18
    first few rides on this 2019 RS revelation charger rc,
    my impressions so far:
    - big hits going far into the travel of the fork are great, no less that my older pike
    - small and fast trail chatter - not as good, and transmits lots of shakes to the bars

    anyone else shares the same?
    it's confusing how it has such a difference between the two.

    got me thinking maybe my fork is failed.
    it makes a distinct "swiiiiish" sound when running fast and deep into the travel (not sure if when compressing or when extending though).
    i haven't heard that from forks for years (especially not RS).
    does everyone has that sound or is mine faulty?

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    958
    The lack of sensitivity isn't a surprise considering the stiction/preload in the damper

    It does turn out to be a dished/preloaded shim stack which explains the similar curves to a Grip fork. The whole base valve is literally pressed together

    Fairly basic moulded plastic parts though so not sure how well tuning will go in it but at least its nice to see a sealed shimmed damper at this price point!

    New 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper-img_2998.jpgNew 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper-img_2997.jpgNew 2019 RockShox Charger RC cartridge-style, self-bleeding damper-img_2996.jpg
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Cool! What did you use to get it apart? Does it look easy to press back together?

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    @johnnyC7 since you have one apart do you mind helpjng me diag an issue? I sold mine to a buddy, its leaking out around the rebound knob. I was hoping it was leaking from th lowers, but he replaced the crush washer, torqued down the damper shaft and it's still leaking. What seals do you think would be needed to stop a leak from inside the rebound shaft?

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    18
    if i get it right - this is the same unit that goes into pike select and lyrik select, so i would expect it to be quite good, and not all budget.

    what about that noise? is that normal for this fork or does mine have an issue?

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    958
    Quote Originally Posted by flyhard View Post
    if i get it right - this is the same unit that goes into pike select and lyrik select, so i would expect it to be quite good, and not all budget.

    what about that noise? is that normal for this fork or does mine have an issue?
    Yeah that kind of noise is pretty normal, even charger 2.0 forks are quite noisy and this is a very similar rebound piston. Also the fairly simple design of the base valve piston will likely make noise as the oil speeds up and slows down rapidly through the ports.

    If there is no loud, solid :knock: and the adjusters are working I wouldn't be concerned
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    958
    I used a rubber strap wrench to wind the black piston out of its housing, then carefully clamped the check valve/lsc plate and pulled the slotted black plastic part out (its plastic though so take it easy!)

    It pressed back together easily

    Not sure what seal could be leaking, the most common thing I see is actually oil poured down the shaft when filling the lowers so its not a leak just that oil coming out. A leaking o-ring would be pretty deep inside if it does need replacing
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    20
    Any chance of more pictures while its still open? Does anyone know yet if the Lyrik Select damper is actually any different than -19 Yari charger RC?
    Also, would changing the ifp spring to a softer one have any effect on the initial plushness? I'd try to source a low friction seal for the IFP piston head instead of O-ring. Maybe even a quad ring has less friction. Whats the diameter of the IFP tube?

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Thanks Johnny. Maybe you're right and the leak is just oil I poured into the shaft. I guess he can just ride it and wait for a damping to get notchy.

    The ifp spring is pretty firm for sure. But I would assume that's just what it takes to prevent hysteresis. The ifp to damper body oring seal might have excessive friction. But I think the real stickiness is coming from the ifp inside bushing.

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    20
    Looking at the pictures, this damper would be really easy to make upgrade parts for. Basically just the plastic end of the damper needs to made new to be able to make totally different ports or valving, can easily be made from metal also. Also I'm pretty sure it will be easy to modify the ifp to have lots less friction. And you can actually remove this type of compression damper without removing the lowers for easy shim stack tuning. Still waiting on my slayer with the Lyrik Select to arrive.

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Jukis View Post
    Looking at the pictures, this damper would be really easy to make upgrade parts for. Basically just the plastic end of the damper needs to made new to be able to make totally different ports or valving, can easily be made from metal also. Also I'm pretty sure it will be easy to modify the ifp to have lots less friction. And you can actually remove this type of compression damper without removing the lowers for easy shim stack tuning. Still waiting on my slayer with the Lyrik Select to arrive.
    If you build it they will come.

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    24
    You guys were right! I raced moto for most of my life and have been doing mtb for a while with high end stuff(26" lyrik Rc2DH, 2014 era pike, modern fox 36 RC2s). This is the first time I have felt the phenomenon of a fork that "blows through". I don't mind the stiction and feel like Im well within the range of LSC, but moar air really doesn't seem to have a huge effect on the very light high speed comp.

    Can anyone recommend a good starting point for making the high speed comp stiffer? I would even pay someone if they could tell me like exactly what shims to run to accomplish this.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Skerby View Post
    Can anyone recommend a good starting point for making the high speed comp stiffer? I would even pay someone if they could tell me like exactly what shims to run to accomplish this.
    JohnnyC7 could probably tell us what the original shims are, if it blows through then it might need some extra pyramid shims. Ie. if the originals are 18x0.15mm shims x3 and then 8x0.2mm shims on top then making it a pyramid with 18x0.15x2, 17x0.15, 16x0.15, 14x0.15 and then enough of the small ones to make it tighten properly would add more support for heavier hits without compromising any of the sensitivity, maybe even make the face shims a bit lighter if they are 0.2mm shims.. If you can open it yourself and measure the shims yourself it will be easier ofcourse.

    Remove air from the spring so the fork compresses all the way, untighten and pull up the damper assembly, use a strap wrench to hold the damper tube to be able to remove the compression damper. Keep the fork in upside position. You should be able to do compression tuning without dropping oil from lowers with this method. Remember to open the lsc ports before installing it back.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    24
    Thanks bud! I will try out this disassembly procedure and measure all the shims. I have a bunch of old lyrik dampers that hopefully have some shims that could fit.

    Hoping to maybe be able to band aid the fork with lots of volume spacers until I can get my hands on the right shims. Part of me wants to take the easy way out and buy Charger 2.1, but I think this one has some unrealized potential.

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4
    Fingers crossed that some low friction ifp seals come out to help improve this already great fork even more .

    Don't forget guys that this is easier to maintain than a bladder damper fork, that's worth something alone.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    24
    Im not even sure it's necessary for most. The damper is only part of the equation here and the rest of the fork is smooth as butter. I weigh around 175# and Im able to run 2-3 clicks of low speed from full open, comparable if not smoother than my fox 36.

    Trying to figure out the exact model of this fork, I think this is Lyrik B1+?

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kwapik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    376
    Try entering the fork serial number here:

    https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/search/

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    24
    Well, finally took fork apart and my damper has a bladder. My bad, lol. It is a 2019 Lyrik RC so who knows whats going on.

    Im still excited about the future of self bleeding mtb dampers haha.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    958
    Tip for anyone looking to change the shims -Because it is a dished piston changing shims basically has the same effect as adding or removing preload, ie shifting the curve straight up and down rather than altering the gradient. So making it harder in high speed will also increase lower speed.

    I havent tried it yet on this damper but it is a trait of dished pistons that it is very difficult/impossible to separate the 2 adjustments

    Should make the process easy though, you really only have one variable to play with.
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    330
    I'd be interested to hear more comments on how this damper feels compared to Fox's Grip dampers from anybody who's spent significant time on both. I've been riding and dialing in a 2017 Pike RCT3 / DebonAir on my full suspension bike for a few years, but I recently built up a new hardtail with a 34 Grip. I don't know if it's just the Grip damper, but the 34 almost immediately blew me away. It feels noticeably plusher than the Pike while also feeling a bit more supportive. Wondering if maybe I need to try to get my hands on one of these redesigned RC dampers for the Pike.

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    I've got a loaner Reign 29 with the lyrik select in 160mm. I really like it. It's a lot better than the 130 Revelation Charger RC I had before. It's super smooth. For me the high speed blowoff is a killer feature of this damper, as long as it's not brake divey or unsupportive in general. But I get most of the support from the spring. I've got no tokens and an extra 15psi in there (per the RS recommendation chart). Feels just about perfect, way better than any budget fork from the past. I have $1200 in upgrades on my Yari (Avalanche and Smashpot), it's a really nice fork. But if I could buy three of these, including the chassis for the price of that...

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    108
    So any more reviews or feedback? If you could chose - would you take the IFP - style charger damper or the new charger 2.1 bladder damper?

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    18
    so you're saying the lyrik (select) charger rc damper is different to the one in the revelation charger rc damper?
    aren't they supposed to be the same thing? they all say "charger rc" damper

    the one on my REV is plush for sure, but 5 clicks of compression doesn't do much for me, and i'd like it more supportive, while at the same time - there is noticeable stiction in the beginning of the travel, so much so that it sometimes just sits near the 10% travel mark.

    so - is getting a lyrik select with the same dumper will be an upgrade, or better off getting a charger2 damper?

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    126
    Comparing the 2019 and 2020 specification documentation, one stark difference stands out between the Charger RC in the 2019 Yari/Rev and the Charger RC in the 2020 Pike/Lyrik.

    On the upper tube oil volume, the Yari/Rev have fixed volumes, while the Pike/Lyrik Select are listed as "bleed". This matches the forks with 2020 charger 2.1 dampers and 2019 Charger 2.0 dampers. This to me suggests that the new Charger RC is actually last year's Charger 2. As someone who recently swapped from a 2019 Pike with Charger 2, to a 2020 Lyrik with Charger RC, the forks feel incredibly similar. When purchasing the 2020 Lyrik, I asked the techs at competitive cyclist how the Charger RC compared, and they also told me it was last years Charger 2.

    That being said, I'll withhold my judgement until someone actually cracks a new Select open.

    EDIT:

    As soon as I post this I read the bikeradar overview which contradicts what I just said:

    Select+ and Ultimate models of Pike, Lyrik and Boxxer feature an updated version of the Charger 2, which is imaginatively named Charger 2.1.

    This new damper will be available in RC2 or RCT3 varieties in Ultimate-level forks and RC (low-speed compression only) in Select+ forks. Meanwhile, Select models will use a cheaper version of the Charger damper which uses an IFP instead of a bladder, which RockShox is calling simply ďChargerĒ.

    Looking through the service manual, the Lyrik Select and the Yari Charger RC are literally identical. The 2020 Select forks have without a doubt IFPs in place of bladders. The service manual itself also contradicts the spec sheets in that the Yari/Rev Charger RCs are listed as bleed dampers.

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    108
    Any more findings on this topic?

  102. #102
    Turns right, slides left
    Reputation: 410sprint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    645
    Quote Originally Posted by Carrera911xc View Post
    Comparing the 2019 and 2020 specification documentation, one stark difference stands out between the Charger RC in the 2019 Yari/Rev and the Charger RC in the 2020 Pike/Lyrik.

    On the upper tube oil volume, the Yari/Rev have fixed volumes, while the Pike/Lyrik Select are listed as "bleed". This matches the forks with 2020 charger 2.1 dampers and 2019 Charger 2.0 dampers. This to me suggests that the new Charger RC is actually last year's Charger 2. As someone who recently swapped from a 2019 Pike with Charger 2, to a 2020 Lyrik with Charger RC, the forks feel incredibly similar. When purchasing the 2020 Lyrik, I asked the techs at competitive cyclist how the Charger RC compared, and they also told me it was last years Charger 2.

    That being said, I'll withhold my judgement until someone actually cracks a new Select open.

    EDIT:

    As soon as I post this I read the bikeradar overview which contradicts what I just said:

    Select+ and Ultimate models of Pike, Lyrik and Boxxer feature an updated version of the Charger 2, which is imaginatively named Charger 2.1.

    This new damper will be available in RC2 or RCT3 varieties in Ultimate-level forks and RC (low-speed compression only) in Select+ forks. Meanwhile, Select models will use a cheaper version of the Charger damper which uses an IFP instead of a bladder, which RockShox is calling simply ďChargerĒ.

    Looking through the service manual, the Lyrik Select and the Yari Charger RC are literally identical. The 2020 Select forks have without a doubt IFPs in place of bladders. The service manual itself also contradicts the spec sheets in that the Yari/Rev Charger RCs are listed as bleed dampers.
    Sram has made a mess rolling out the 2020 forks. The specifications vs the 2019 models are clear as mud. Its a shame because hidden in all of this confusion is the fact that the new Charger IFP damper is actually very good.

  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    4
    Well Charger RC actually is kind of self bleeding, but still you want it to be effectively air free after service/assembly. I guess that is the reason why the service manual states oil volume for select forks with Charger RC as bleed, rather than some specific volume.

  104. #104
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,996
    Tried to bleed one of these tonight. When I pressed the rebound shaft (to a max zip tie length of 23.5mm) it shot oil out of the bleed port. Making a huge mess.

    Then I pulled the rebound assembly to full extension to cycle, but when I let go it ducked the rebound assembly back up.

    Iíve got the compression assembly off and will give it a go again tomorrow morning, but really donít want to take another bath in fork cartridge oil.

    Hoping someone who has bled one of these can chime in. Bleeding my Charger2 with a syringe was waaaay easier/cleaner than this thing (so far).
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  105. #105
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,996
    Rebled this morning - I think my helper had the compression adjuster at full close and not full open.

    Oil dribbles out when you bleed, but doesnít shoot out. Still quite messy compared to a Charger bladder damper.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Rebled this morning - I think my helper had the compression adjuster at full close and not full open.

    Oil dribbles out when you bleed, but doesnít shoot out. Still quite messy compared to a Charger bladder damper.
    Cheers for the update!

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Rebled this morning - I think my helper had the compression adjuster at full close and not full open.

    Oil dribbles out when you bleed, but doesnít shoot out. Still quite messy compared to a Charger bladder damper.
    I'm pretty sure the manual says to tie a paper towel around the bleed port. I did this and the mess was minimal.

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    20
    Just got my slayer with the Lyrik Select fork in 170mm. The fork is super plush. Could use a little more hsc for the biggest hits but so far its working better than a grip2 36. Wasnt expecting it to be near this good. Will report later on the damper when I get to service it. Hopefully I can setup the compression stack to have a little more hsc.

  109. #109
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,996
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    I'm pretty sure the manual says to tie a paper towel around the bleed port. I did this and the mess was minimal.
    It does. And I did. But it still pushes a decent amount of oil out during the bleed (which runs down the damper and gets all over your vice). It's not a huge mess, but more oil runs out than when bleeding this vs. a Charger2 damper.

    I guess their suggestion to fill to just below the bleed port is quite conservative. I bet you could add less oil (lower below the bleed port) and still be fine and have less of a mess.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    31
    Iím looking at 2020 Reign 29 2 and Reign Advanced Pro 29 2. The difference in the two (aside from carbon/Aluminum) is Yari RC in the aluminum one and the Lyrik Select (with the Charger RC) in the Carbon bike.

    Are those dampers worth a $1200 difference? Worth it when accounting for the Al to Carbon upgrade?

  111. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    440
    Quote Originally Posted by Jukis View Post
    Just got my slayer with the Lyrik Select fork in 170mm. The fork is super plush. Could use a little more hsc for the biggest hits but so far its working better than a grip2 36. Wasnt expecting it to be near this good. Will report later on the damper when I get to service it. Hopefully I can setup the compression stack to have a little more hsc.
    You sure that's not the Select+ with the bladder? What's your riding weight for reference?

Similar Threads

  1. Long Term Report: Rockshox Pike Charger Damper
    By bing! in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 581
    Last Post: 08-29-2018, 03:23 PM
  2. Question on Pike Charger Damper Bleeding/Servicing
    By jaks in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-26-2018, 10:49 AM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-01-2017, 09:04 AM
  4. rockshox charger damper rebuild?
    By terrible in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-29-2015, 06:57 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-22-2011, 03:35 PM

Members who have read this thread: 287

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.