My bike with Lyrik does not feel planted...- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789

    My bike with Lyrik does not feel planted...

    My 2013 Giant Trance X 29er with 32mm Fox forks feels great.

    I just rode a 2019 Giant Trance with some Fox 36 Float Rhythm 27.5+ 150mm and that felt great.

    Now I am riding a Specialized with Fox Lyric RC29 (eMTB version) with debonair spring and it is harsh, bouncy, and unplanted.

    I am 73kg with gear and the Specialized app said 168psi front and 75psi back. I tried those. I also set the sag manually at 25 and 30% with less pressure and that didn't help. The app said to open the rebound 7 clicks from closed. I tried that. I tried more and less.

    I set the air pressure in the 2.6" tires down to 12 front and 15 rear. Nothing makes the bike feel planted.

    I have not tried low-volume spacers.

    What do you think I can do? Even more sag? Or is this fork just not going to feel like Fox? I suspect it is over-forked for my weight and that is just the issue.
    Last edited by rsilvers; 09-04-2019 at 04:38 PM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,448
    What size tires are on your Trance X 29er and the 2019 Trance?

    I've found that anything larger than a 2.4" that isn't a DH or Enduro casing tire tends to bounce around a lot more than my usual 2.3" - 2.4" tires.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    My 2013 has 2.6 Knobby Nic tubeless with the blue line compound. I love the tires and the bike feel.

    The 2019 Giant has 2.6 DHF.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tim-ti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    193
    I think you want 75psi front, 168psi rear - not the other way around.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post

    I am 64kg and the Specialized app said 168psi front and 75psi back.
    It should probably be the other way around.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    Yes. It is.

    And right now I am testing 70 front and 130 back as that is giving me 30 percent sag.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    964
    I'd look at how many air spacers are in the lyric. At your weight I imagine no spacers would be best, and sometimes they come pre installed. But if it does feel harsh you can add spacers and lower the pressure while keeping the same sag.

    I'd also suggest more rebound damping and less compression.

    Personally i like fox better and was much happier when i swapped my pike for a fox 36.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,505
    75 psi seams a bit high. Shoot for 65 psi & increase as necessary
    83 Ritchey Everest
    95 Bianchi Mega Tube ti
    2015 Kona Operator Supreme
    2015 Kona Process 153
    2019 Kona Process 153 CR 29

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    921
    Yeah I would try 60-65psi with the rebound 11-12 clicks from closed. At 70kg I was running 70psi in the same fork

    Is it a deluxe shock? I think around 165psi is close, and you will want the rebound mostly open

    I've seen some of specializeds recommended settings and they are all over the place, so you are better off going by feel
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,377
    Specialized pressure charts (and autosag) have always been bollocks.

    Use this: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...rt/setup-guide
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    I reset the sag after bouncing up and down five times. Now I am at 70psi front and 125psi rear which gives 30% sag on both.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Specialized pressure charts (and autosag) have always been bollocks.

    Use this: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...rt/setup-guide
    That says "If your suspension has the right spring rate, the right ride height, you're already running LSC wide open, HSC wide open and it's still harsh and kicks then your base tune is too firm. Your fork or shock needs a revalve to provide a softer base tune so it can be tuned correctly."

    So I think that is it - this bike is over-forked for me, and expects a much heavier rider.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    That says "If your suspension has the right spring rate, the right ride height, you're already running LSC wide open, HSC wide open and it's still harsh and kicks then your base tune is too firm. Your fork or shock needs a revalve to provide a softer base tune so it can be tuned correctly."

    So I think that is it - this bike is over-forked for me, and expects a much heavier rider.
    No you are well within the useable range of that fork, in fact its heavier riders who are more in need of revalving that particular model. You need to keep trying pressures and taking it on the trail, thats the only real way to set it up properly
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    No you are well within the useable range of that fork, in fact its heavier riders who are more in need of revalving that particular model. You need to keep trying pressures and taking it on the trail, thats the only real way to set it up properly
    Awesome. I really want it to be tunable for my weight, so I will keep on trying.

    Also, are Specialized GRID Butcher tires comparable to some of the best out there - like Maxxis DHF and DHR2? I was slipping on damp roots and I assumed the tires sucked, but maybe it was just the suspension making me bounce too much.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    I may be ok now. I am at 60 psi front and 115 back and not bottoming out. Needs more testing, but I am less concerned about it now. The breakthrough came when I stopped worrying about the perfect 25% preload and instead just used less air, but still enough to never bottom out.
    Last edited by rsilvers; 09-05-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    2,409
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    No you are well within the useable range of that fork, in fact its heavier riders who are more in need of revalving that particular model. You need to keep trying pressures and taking it on the trail, thats the only real way to set it up properly
    Can you say more about the Lyrik Ultimate and heavier riders? I'm 104 kg and about to begin the process of getting my Lyrik dialed in (on a new Hightower). It felt good in the parking lot, but on very fast sections with a lot of chatter and chunk, it was a little disappointing. This was at the recommended pressure of 110 psi and 4 clicks of rebound from fully closed. I'm not sure if I should be thinking about taking out tokens and leaving the pressure where it is or trying to run lower pressures with more tokens.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,505
    That's the best way to do it. Recommended settings first, but if it feels like crap throw those settings out the window & adjust.

    If you have some free time, listen to Vital MTB's podcast with Darren from push industries. I really like his take on suspension setup & service.

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/MT...e-Podcast,2748
    83 Ritchey Everest
    95 Bianchi Mega Tube ti
    2015 Kona Operator Supreme
    2015 Kona Process 153
    2019 Kona Process 153 CR 29

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    Found that they had put tokens in the front and back from the factory, preventing me from getting full travel with a psi that gave me a 25-30% sag.

    I am happy I was able to fix it, but frustrated it would come that way. I guess the average rider is 70-100lb heavier than me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My bike with Lyrik does not feel planted...-69622011_10158810853408662_5090084786098143232_n.jpg  

    My bike with Lyrik does not feel planted...-69575377_10158811030618662_2401268377847857152_n.jpg  


  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Can you say more about the Lyrik Ultimate and heavier riders? I'm 104 kg and about to begin the process of getting my Lyrik dialed in (on a new Hightower). It felt good in the parking lot, but on very fast sections with a lot of chatter and chunk, it was a little disappointing. This was at the recommended pressure of 110 psi and 4 clicks of rebound from fully closed. I'm not sure if I should be thinking about taking out tokens and leaving the pressure where it is or trying to run lower pressures with more tokens.
    Maybe try no tokens to start and only add them back in if you feel like the fork sits too low in the stroke/isn't pushing back enough once you have dialled everything else

    Then set air pressure first, and rebound should feel reasonably quick but controlled so try less pressure and a few clicks faster on rebound. If in doubt go slightly faster than you think, but around 4-6 clicks is about right for the stock tune.

    You will likely need the HSC adjuster on the firmest setting, and start with LSC in the middle. The comment about revalving is because the base shim stacks are very soft in compression and rebound so ideally would be replaced with something firmer to work properly. But ride it fora little while first and see if you can get to a satisfactory point with the stock settings
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,149
    I'm going to break with everyone else and tell you to set your sag at 25-30% front and 30% rear and slow down your rebound. If your bike feels bouncy, either your suspension is WAY too stiff or your rebound is too fast. Once it feels planted, if you want to make it more plush by removing volume spacers and trying to get both ends to use all the travel, go for it, but a pogo stick effect is your rebound being too fast, not anything to do with spring rate or linearity.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    739
    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    I'm going to break with everyone else and tell you to set your sag at 25-30% front.
    No suspension manufacturers are recommending that much fork sag so why are you?

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: R_Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    No suspension manufacturers are recommending that much fork sag so why are you?
    Thats actually quite common...

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: armii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    I'm going to break with everyone else and tell you to set your sag at 25-30% front and 30% rear and slow down your rebound. If your bike feels bouncy, either your suspension is WAY too stiff or your rebound is too fast. Once it feels planted, if you want to make it more plush by removing volume spacers and trying to get both ends to use all the travel, go for it, but a pogo stick effect is your rebound being too fast, not anything to do with spring rate or linearity.
    I am going to agree with this and add two comments,
    1. sometimes the front can feel bouncy, if the back is too stiff, I have a Lyrik on my bike and find running the back a little soft makes the front feel better. Also at 92kg I use two spacers in the fork, I wouldn't think you would need more than one.
    2. compared to several bikes I have demoed with Fox forks, Rockshox always feel a little harsh to me, but when set right they do not feel bouncy or un-planted.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    I have it figured out. Here are the rules:

    1. If when the sag is set to 25% you are bottoming out, then add tokens.

    2. If when the sag is set to 25% you are not using enough of the travel, then remove tokens.

    I didn't think of #2 myself because it never occurred to me that they would have put in reduced-volume spacers at the factory, especially when the bike came with a box of parts that had spacers in it - the implication being that they were not installed.

  25. #25
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,239
    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    Thats actually quite common...
    Not IME, and running that much sag most likely means using tokens to prevent bottom and make it more progressive, running more sag requires a more progressive setup, which the damping is likely not valved fork, as in it will get harsh deep into the travel on rapid successive hits. Most are recommending around 20% for an air fork. 25% and more was back in marzocchi coil-spring days.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  26. #26
    EDR
    Reputation: eatdrinkride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,504
    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post

    I didn't think of #2 myself because it never occurred to me that they would have put in reduced-volume spacers at the factory, especially when the bike came with a box of parts that had spacers in it - the implication being that they were not installed.
    No implication of anything, just assumptions. Seems it came set up with a 'medium' spring rate, like a coil. they gotta start somewhere and why not leave the buyer a window of adjust-ability right?

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    789
    There was an implication that it was empty, because it came with a box of tokens that would only fit if the fork was empty. So they both filled the fork with two tokens, and included two tokens.

    Spring rate is just air pressure amount and externally changeable with a pump, so I didn't assume spring rate, and knew that had to be set.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    170
    Is it? Everything I have seen for a modern full-suspension bike is recommending 15-20% for forks, understanding of course the current prevailing wisdom that measuring fork sag is inaccurate. This might explain why, when I was looking for opinions to set up my bike I was running into all kinds of posts where people were running 20-30psi under what the fork manufacturer recommended for their weight. I am not saying they are wrong, but I tried it and could never get it to feel right.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: armii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    785
    Just to say how I got to where I like the feel of my fork. I started with 20% sag. Mine came with only one token installed and it felt to me like the fork dove too much when braking even with only 20% sag. I added a token and they made if feel better under braking. Then I let air out until on a fairly hard rocky/rooty technical section I use about 90% of the fork travel. That ended up at 28% sag for me.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
    I have it figured out. Here are the rules:

    1. If when the sag is set to 25% you are bottoming out, then add tokens.

    2. If when the sag is set to 25% you are not using enough of the travel, then remove tokens.

    I didn't think of #2 myself because it never occurred to me that they would have put in reduced-volume spacers at the factory, especially when the bike came with a box of parts that had spacers in it - the implication being that they were not installed.
    Every fork starts with and has a maximum number of volume spacers. Either way it's a starting point.

    I've found that with too much air, forks lack compliance but spring rate and compression damping have never been so out of whack that they compromise control. I suppose it's possible, but I've never experienced that.

    On the other hand, rebound that is out of whack will feel scary. The bike will be all over the place.

    As to 25-30% being too much, I've never read otherwise. I'm running around 25% on all of my bikes (140-160 travel) and even with less pressure than the charts say, I'm not bottoming out. Maybe I'm a baby, but I like using my travel and letting it eat up the chunk. Your riding style might be different and demand a stiffer fork. If so, rebound is even more important!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 06-03-2015, 05:48 PM
  2. Keeping the front wheel planted
    By gsa103 in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 11-09-2014, 07:54 PM
  3. Keeping your feet planted on flat pedals Question (rigid vs suspension)
    By Wish I Were Riding in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-02-2013, 07:40 AM
  4. Need help keeping front end planted while climbing
    By mikepro in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-16-2007, 05:39 PM

Members who have read this thread: 184

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.