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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    would be nice if one of you mezzer wizards made a youtube vid of taking fork apart, adding oil, reassembling fork, etc.. I cannot figure out what that nice Italian man was saying in the video. And he was so clean..made me suspicious that he wasn't a real mechanic.
    I might be doing a CSA (crown steerer assembly) swap in the next week or 2 if I have time. That's a complete tear down, so maybe I will take a few pics and write up a guide

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamkam View Post
    Just turn handlebars 180 so the hook will be up against the arch. This is what many have to do with normal forks but the newer long bikes that are too long for many bike racks.
    Thats clever. While shopping for a rack, I did notice that most had WB limits that were lower than most modern bikes (trail bikes even, not just super long DH bikes). I hadnt thought about turning the bars around


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  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    just my $0.02
    DSD Runt with the Avy damper on a Lyrik is feeling pretty good to me. Quite a bit lighter than the smashpot, but so far has made the spring quite a bit better. But it's still 200g heavier than the Mezzer...

    FWIW, with the Avy damper I dropped compression and rebound 2 clicks and was quite surprised how much of an impact it had. The recommended rebound damping was slower than where I was on the HC97 (recommended setting). Just wish Avy would put knobs on their damper and do black instead of gold anodizing. Kind of ridiculous to need a custom screw driver to adjust the compression damping and the gold is so ugly.

    As far as that screwdriver goes, I just filed down the sides of the flathead on my multitool so that it fits/access the compression knob. Kind of a hack but works just fine.

    The gold cap on my totally blacked out DH rig goes with the Cane Creek rear shock's gold and the Saint's gold banjo's. So, I'm kinda digging the gold.

    And to totally derail I found the Craig's/Avy settings a bit heavily damped for my taste. I'm running the compression about 2-3 clicks softer, and the rebound about 2 clicks faster. The Avy cart is on a Boxxer which had a Charger 1 damper, which seemed to have almost zero damping until you cranked the LSC way up, then it got too harsh. Since I got use to running that with what seemed to be little damping (to me) I think the stock Avy settings seem a bit heavy for me until I get use to it. That said, its a way better fork now and can charge the high speed chunk so much better.

  4. #404
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    Was doing a quick lower leg service on my mezzer last weekend, discovered that the finish on one side of the damper shaft has a terrible surface finish, it might be hard to see in the photo but each groove catches the fingernail.

    EDIT: Manitou tech support is now looking into it.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-img_20190828_120232.jpg  

    Last edited by naturaltalent; 09-09-2019 at 12:51 PM.

  5. #405
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    So I had the fork feeling pretty good on my normal after work trails and decided to test it out on some steeper, chunkier steppier stuff last night.

    Apparently I managed to screw up the +/- balance of the air spring when I was checking the pressure pre-ride and by the time I realized it I was too far into the ride to go back to the car for my pump and still beat sundown so I got beat up by my fork for an hour.. haha.

    I know the air spring has a special valve that fills +/- simultaneously..

    What is the official fill/reset procedure for the air spring on this fork?

    I assume that the pump should be threaded on all the way until it stops to activate both chambers, correct?

    I also assume that both chambers unify/equalize when you do this, correct?

    With this system it seems that it would be possible to equalize the chambers with the fork sagged into it's travel creating effectively larger/smaller +/- chambers. I would assume that it is important to ensure that the fork is at the top of its travel before equalizing?

  6. #406
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    Along the lines of setting up air pressure, the small volume in the third air chambers is extremely sensitive to any air loss while disconnecting the pump. While a tiny burp of air on the main chamber might lose you 1psi when disconnecting the pump, on the small volume with the RUNT it's like 10-15 psi. I assume the IRT is no different.

    I bought a cheap mechanical pump with a "no-loss" air fitting and was able to swap the hose assembly off it and on to my digital pump. Works great and it's WAY more repeatable on setting up the air suspension.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Along the lines of setting up air pressure, the small volume in the third air chambers is extremely sensitive to any air loss while disconnecting the pump. While a tiny burp of air on the main chamber might lose you 1psi when disconnecting the pump, on the small volume with the RUNT it's like 10-15 psi. I assume the IRT is no different.

    I bought a cheap mechanical pump with a "no-loss" air fitting and was able to swap the hose assembly off it and on to my digital pump. Works great and it's WAY more repeatable on setting up the air suspension.
    You don't lose air when disconnecting a pump. You can drop pressure when attaching the pump unless you prime it first.

  8. #408
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    For anyone that was intrested in a follow up regarding my fork issue. As stated earlier CS to a good job getting me a next day return label. Then I received a fork back in four business days shipped via next day air. I am not sure what they did but it was fast and now on to the test ride. It is a 160 travel 44 rake 29er. Its on a Stumpy EVO.
    Transition Scout Carbon

  9. #409
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    Thanks for the update. Sounds like great customer service especially the next day air shipping. That only cost a small fortune.

    When you have a chance, can you take a photo of the Evo with the Mezzer. I'd like to see how it looks on there.

  10. #410
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    Evo with Mezzer

    Manitou Mezzer-img_1454.jpg
    Manitou Mezzer-img_1455.jpg
    Manitou Mezzer-img_1457.jpg
    Transition Scout Carbon

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
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    That's a nice lookin' rig you got there.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    You don't lose air when disconnecting a pump. You can drop pressure when attaching the pump unless you prime it first.
    If your pump hose seals internally perfectly and the heights of the valve core and pump pin are perfect, yes I'd agree. Don't bother posting articles about it though, I already know what you are talking about. Real world with a pump that gets used and stuffed in a pack that gets dirt in it and wear, I disagree though.

    Generally its not much of an issue, but with the small volume of the third chamber, it matters if you have any kind of issue. For example, a quick tap on the pressure release valve might drop fork pressure 0.5psi, the same like tap drops the third chamber pressure (on the RUNT anyway) 5psi. An order of magnitude difference in sensitivity.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
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    How do you like it and how does it perform with the ext shock at the back?

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    So I had the fork feeling pretty good on my normal after work trails and decided to test it out on some steeper, chunkier steppier stuff last night.

    Apparently I managed to screw up the +/- balance of the air spring when I was checking the pressure pre-ride and by the time I realized it I was too far into the ride to go back to the car for my pump and still beat sundown so I got beat up by my fork for an hour.. haha.

    I know the air spring has a special valve that fills +/- simultaneously..

    What is the official fill/reset procedure for the air spring on this fork?

    I assume that the pump should be threaded on all the way until it stops to activate both chambers, correct?

    I also assume that both chambers unify/equalize when you do this, correct?

    With this system it seems that it would be possible to equalize the chambers with the fork sagged into it's travel creating effectively larger/smaller +/- chambers. I would assume that it is important to ensure that the fork is at the top of its travel before equalizing?
    Just two things to remember.

    1. Screw the pump on the whole way. That last turn can make the difference between the chambers connecting or not.

    2. Pull the fork to full extension (if that's where you want it) before removing the pump.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    would be nice if one of you mezzer wizards made a youtube vid of taking fork apart, adding oil, reassembling fork, etc.. I cannot figure out what that nice Italian man was saying in the video. And he was so clean..made me suspicious that he wasn't a real mechanic.
    That's Dave and he's real: https://www.instagram.com/rulezman/

    It's the most user friendly fork Manitou has made to work on. You just need that slotted cassette tool.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    If you're feeling no difference at all between fully open and fully closed, then we need someone else to take a look at your fork.

    The full sweep of both adjusters should take you somewhere from 5-30 kg of force at 1 m/s.

    *edit* But you'll only acheive like 0.1-0.2 m/s with hand compression, which is a lot less damping force.
    */edit*
    So to be clear, with both LSC and HSC closed, you're saying you won't feel a difference doing push test on the bars between the both open and both closed positions? I would have expected the LSC especially to make some difference and make it feel stiffer.

    I haven't been able to ride my fork yet but there seems to be absolutely no difference between open and closed when I do the push test, unless it's so subtle that I'm not feeling it.
    Pole Evolink 140

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Just two things to remember.

    1. Screw the pump on the whole way. That last turn can make the difference between the chambers connecting or not.

    2. Pull the fork to full extension (if that's where you want it) before removing the pump.
    Thanks Dougal,

    I would assume that full extension is the base factory spec.

    I was playing around with it yesterday and its interesting how easy it is to move that zero point around in the travel with the pump connected. That adds a whole other dimension of tuning mind****ery.


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  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    So to be clear, with both LSC and HSC closed, you're saying you won't feel a difference doing push test on the bars between the both open and both closed positions? I would have expected the LSC especially to make some difference and make it feel stiffer.

    I haven't been able to ride my fork yet but there seems to be absolutely no difference between open and closed when I do the push test, unless it's so subtle that I'm not feeling it.
    there is difference. Especially on the trail. Open rebound. Close LSC. Then make comparison with HSC opened and then closed. You must feel it

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    So to be clear, with both LSC and HSC closed, you're saying you won't feel a difference doing push test on the bars between the both open and both closed positions? I would have expected the LSC especially to make some difference and make it feel stiffer.

    I haven't been able to ride my fork yet but there seems to be absolutely no difference between open and closed when I do the push test, unless it's so subtle that I'm not feeling it.
    I can't tell what you can or cannot feel. But even on a push test from full open to full closed there is a difference in resistance of about 5-10kg force.

    As compression speeds get higher (i.e. riding, not pushing) the force difference gets greater.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  20. #420
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    FYI

    Air spring fill procedure from Manitou Tech Support:

    "When on the bike you want 20% sag into its travel, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG__UuR71lk

    Try this, let all the air out of the fork. Invert the fork and hold down the air valve, fully extend fork, let go of air valve once extended. Attached shock pump and fill chamber according to air chart. Set fork up right and fill IRT chamber, start off with 100 PSI. Set sag. Ride for a bit and make adjustments to IRT if needed."

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    FYI

    Air spring fill procedure from Manitou Tech Support:

    "When on the bike you want 20% sag into its travel, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG__UuR71lk

    Try this, let all the air out of the fork. Invert the fork and hold down the air valve, fully extend fork, let go of air valve once extended. Attached shock pump and fill chamber according to air chart. Set fork up right and fill IRT chamber, start off with 100 PSI. Set sag. Ride for a bit and make adjustments to IRT if needed."
    So if I'm reading that correctly, this contradicts their initial fill procedure of first filling the IRT, then filling the air spring. The above implies the opposite.

    Also, I assume you let the air out of the IRT first before inverting it to let the air out of the air spring.

    Setting or adjusting sag is done from the air spring side right? The above makes it sound like you adjust sag from the IRT or have I completely misunderstood how the IRT works?
    Pole Evolink 140

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    So if I'm reading that correctly, this contradicts their initial fill procedure of first filling the IRT, then filling the air spring. The above implies the opposite.

    Also, I assume you let the air out of the IRT first before inverting it to let the air out of the air spring.

    Setting or adjusting sag is done from the air spring side right? The above makes it sound like you adjust sag from the IRT or have I completely misunderstood how the IRT works?
    Yeah.. I replied that filling the IRT after the air spring contradicts the setup guide but didn't receive a reply.

    I reality what happens is filling the air spring compresses the IRT piston, then filling the IRT pushes the piston back toward the air spring and increases the air spring pressure requiring you to reset the air spring anyway.. doesn't make much sense to do it in this order.

    And yes, you set the sag with the air spring, not the IRT.

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Yeah.. I replied that filling the IRT after the air spring contradicts the setup guide but didn't receive a reply.

    I reality what happens is filling the air spring compresses the IRT piston, then filling the IRT pushes the piston back toward the air spring and increases the air spring pressure requiring you to reset the air spring anyway.. doesn't make much sense to do it in this order.

    And yes, you set the sag with the air spring, not the IRT.
    This is correct. Not sure why tech support would say to fill main chamber first. Filling IRT first ensures that the IRT piston tops out, and that the main spring doesn't become over pressurized.

  24. #424
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    I'm looking at possibly getting a Mezzer for my Chameleon C to replace a FIT4 Fox 36. I'll change the travel to 140mm. How hard and messy is it to change the travel on the Mezzer?

    I know Manitou makes really, really good suspension products that are largely underrated and forgotten about.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by almazing View Post
    I'm looking at possibly getting a Mezzer for my Chameleon C to replace a FIT4 Fox 36. I'll change the travel to 140mm. How hard and messy is it to change the travel on the Mezzer?

    I know Manitou makes really, really good suspension products that are largely underrated and forgotten about.
    It's really easy, but you do need the slotted cassette tool. I cut a slot in a spare I had otherwise you need to buy it but I've only seen it sold as a set of three tools for $60, two of which are not needed for the Mezzer so I you're able it's worth making your own.

    Briefly the process is, remove the air, remove the foot nuts, pull off the lowers, undo the end of the air spring with the slotted cassette tool and pull out the air piston. Add the spaces that are included, grease and re-assemble in reverse order. If you keep the lowers horizontal when removing them you won't lose oil so they can go straight back on.
    Pole Evolink 140

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    It's really easy, but you do need the slotted cassette tool. I cut a slot in a spare I had otherwise you need to buy it but I've only seen it sold as a set of three tools for $60, two of which are not needed for the Mezzer so I you're able it's worth making your own.

    Briefly the process is, remove the air, remove the foot nuts, pull off the lowers, undo the end of the air spring with the slotted cassette tool and pull out the air piston. Add the spaces that are included, grease and re-assemble in reverse order. If you keep the lowers horizontal when removing them you won't lose oil so they can go straight back on.
    Thanks! Just to make absolutely sure, changing the travel also changes the axle to crown, correct?
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by almazing View Post
    Thanks! Just to make absolutely sure, changing the travel also changes the axle to crown, correct?
    Yes. If you've reduced the travel then the distance between the axle and the crown will reduce too by the same amount.

    You can see that in this image. Image is not a Mezzer but shows what the axle crown measurement is on a fork.

    Pole Evolink 140

  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Yes. If you've reduced the travel then the distance between the axle and the crown will reduce too by the same amount.

    You can see that in this image. Image is not a Mezzer but shows what the axle crown measurement is on a fork.

    Thanks. I wasn't sure if it just limited the travel(which in hindsight, makes no sense) whilst keeping the length of the A2C and stanchions as they were in 160 or 180.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

  29. #429
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    Whats the best way to keep the damper rod from rotating while you tighten the footnut? It starts spinning beyond hand tight

  30. #430
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    Nm Im a dingus. Use an 8mm hex key

  31. #431
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    I've got 5-6 rides in on the Mezzer and still working on tuning.. 170mm Mezzer, ~215lb rider.

    Started with 62/91psi (spec for 200lb rider)
    Rebound 5 clicks out
    HSC 3 clicks out
    LSC 4 clicks out
    Feels ok off the top, but too much ramp up and mid stroke support.
    Harsh on bigger hits.
    Rebound feels a little quick.
    Compression feels overdamped, but hard to tell with the air spring out of whack.

    Reduced IRT 5psi to increase linearity. 62/86psi
    Rebound 3 clicks out (front wheel still hops off ground doing push/release test.. interesting)
    HSC 3 clicks out
    LSC 4 clicks out
    Feels a little less progressive but still plenty of support.
    Rebound a little less "pushy" in corners, though this could also be the air sping.
    Will reduce compression damping for next ride.

    Reduced IRT 1psi for the hell of it. 62/85psi
    Rebound 3 clicks out
    HSC open
    LSC 8 clicks out
    Still plenty supportive, feeling pretty good on my after work trails which are flowyer with some punchy rocky tech sections. Still leaving 15-20mm travel unused.

    Was feeling ok with these settings until I tried it on my Sunday evening ride which is a bit chunkier and faster. See short video below for an example of this trail.

    https://youtu.be/unJ9Ju7K4-Q

    The fork while very supportive felt spikey and not very controlled/planted on the descents.. my old Lyrik was set up much better for this stuff. I also left around 30mm travel unused.

    I'm thinking I may need to reduce the IRT pressure even more to get rid of the spikeyness, not sure.

  32. #432
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    back off LSC and then try 50-55/90. Main spring has bigger impact on overal feeling. Also combined with IRT could create overly supportive harsh feeling. I bet your lyrik has hollow midstroke :P

    PS maybe your airpump is way off

  33. #433
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    You don't carry a shock pump in your bag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    So I had the fork feeling pretty good on my normal after work trails and decided to test it out on some steeper, chunkier steppier stuff last night.

    Apparently I managed to screw up the +/- balance of the air spring when I was checking the pressure pre-ride and by the time I realized it I was too far into the ride to go back to the car for my pump and still beat sundown so I got beat up by my fork for an hour.. haha.

    I know the air spring has a special valve that fills +/- simultaneously..

    What is the official fill/reset procedure for the air spring on this fork?

    I assume that the pump should be threaded on all the way until it stops to activate both chambers, correct?

    I also assume that both chambers unify/equalize when you do this, correct?

    With this system it seems that it would be possible to equalize the chambers with the fork sagged into it's travel creating effectively larger/smaller +/- chambers. I would assume that it is important to ensure that the fork is at the top of its travel before equalizing?
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
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  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    back off LSC and then try 50-55/90. Main spring has bigger impact on overal feeling. Also combined with IRT could create overly supportive harsh feeling. I bet your lyrik has hollow midstroke :P

    PS maybe your airpump is way off
    I'll try it.. thanks. I never really noticed a problem with the midstroke on the Lyrik when I was using it, but yeah if I went back and tried it there probably isn't much there compared to the Mezzer.

    Shock pump is pretty accurate when verified with shock wiz (+/- 1psi), but I've never checked it with a calibrated instrument.

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    You don't carry a shock pump in your bag?
    I've been using a fanny pack this summer (f'ing Texas heat), so nope... not on that ride.

  36. #436
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    check for equalisation. Conntect pump and try to compress fork with hands. It should go with some force. Moreover when I face such a problem check for air migration into lowers with zip tie trick. I have one smoothed zip - thats very important. Sharp edges could cut dust seal. Before brush dustseal from dirt, take off spring, pull away dust lip and insert zip tie. If no tssss appeared its good. Its better than loosing lower footnut, cuz eventually no oil will eject.

  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    check for equalisation. Conntect pump and try to compress fork with hands. It should go with some force. Moreover when I face such a problem check for air migration into lowers with zip tie trick. I have one smoothed zip - thats very important. Sharp edges could cut dust seal. Before brush dustseal from dirt, take off spring, pull away dust lip and insert zip tie. If no tssss appeared its good. Its better than loosing lower footnut, cuz eventually no oil will eject.
    I've spent some time to make sure I'm connecting and equalizing the +/- chambers correctly, seems to be behaving properly. I've already used the zip tie on the lowers.. no noticeable hiss.

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    I've spent some time to make sure I'm connecting and equalizing the +/- chambers correctly, seems to be behaving properly. I've already used the zip tie on the lowers.. no noticeable hiss.
    Thats good. Then experiment with main pressure for proper initual and mid stroke . After that correct irt if needed.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    I've got 5-6 rides in on the Mezzer and still working on tuning.. 170mm Mezzer, ~215lb rider.

    Started with 62/91psi (spec for 200lb rider)
    Rebound 5 clicks out
    HSC 3 clicks out
    LSC 4 clicks out
    Feels ok off the top, but too much ramp up and mid stroke support.
    Harsh on bigger hits.
    Rebound feels a little quick.
    Compression feels overdamped, but hard to tell with the air spring out of whack.

    Reduced IRT 5psi to increase linearity. 62/86psi
    Rebound 3 clicks out (front wheel still hops off ground doing push/release test.. interesting)
    HSC 3 clicks out
    LSC 4 clicks out
    Feels a little less progressive but still plenty of support.
    Rebound a little less "pushy" in corners, though this could also be the air sping.
    Will reduce compression damping for next ride.

    Reduced IRT 1psi for the hell of it. 62/85psi
    Rebound 3 clicks out
    HSC open
    LSC 8 clicks out
    Still plenty supportive, feeling pretty good on my after work trails which are flowyer with some punchy rocky tech sections. Still leaving 15-20mm travel unused.

    Was feeling ok with these settings until I tried it on my Sunday evening ride which is a bit chunkier and faster. See short video below for an example of this trail.

    https://youtu.be/unJ9Ju7K4-Q

    The fork while very supportive felt spikey and not very controlled/planted on the descents.. my old Lyrik was set up much better for this stuff. I also left around 30mm travel unused.

    I'm thinking I may need to reduce the IRT pressure even more to get rid of the spikeyness, not sure.
    Looks like a flowy trail with a few embedded rocks and step downs on the way back down. Is that about right? Hard to tell from a video. Is that you?
    It doesn't look like the sort of trail you'd use 170mm of travel on, but I know video can be deceiving.

    Start with spring rate, this post of mine has what you want: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...l#post14285541

    A 100kg rider is about 50lb/in spring-rate which you can get with 60/100psi.
    You've already gone close to that. So go lower and see how it feels. Try 50/80. Keep going lower until it wallows, then go firmer until it's harsh and jiggly. Then shoot for the middle between those two.

    Use this guide with a bounce test to baseline spring-rate, then rebound and compression: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...rt/setup-guide

    Don't increase HSC until you run out of LSC range. Once you've got everything dialled later then you can revisit HSC.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    I've spent some time to make sure I'm connecting and equalizing the +/- chambers correctly, seems to be behaving properly. I've already used the zip tie on the lowers.. no noticeable hiss.
    I found the main spring pressures to be a bit on the low side by a few PSI, but the air pressure changes in the main chamber are pretty sensitive to even a few PSI it seems. As others have said, there is definitely a margin of a few PSI even for good pumps, possibly more for cheaper ones.

    I weigh the same as you on a 160 front and run 75 in the main and 105-110 in the IRT, that gives me ~22% sag. That's 2psi higher in the main and 5 in the IRT than recommended. I fluctuate in the IRT and haven't settled on where I want it to be just yet, the 105 feels good but a bit wallowy sometimes.

    I've ridden Emma Long before, it's fairly flat but with a lot of rock staircases, chunky sections, and babyheads. It looks like your footage cut out some of the bigger features. We have similar trails here and I'd have expected the Mezzer to do better than the Lyrik, it's definitely an improvement over the 36 GRIP2/Ribbon/Helm/etc when it comes to tracking especially. Our trails are steeper, though, and it's easier to carry speed without having to pedal or pump. You may find setting it up a bit more compliant than I did works better.

    I'll also add that I have trouble using full travel. I bump against the HBO every so often, but barely progress into it beyond 30mm. I'm not sure if travel usage is really the best measure of the forks performance, though. The way I have it setup, it stands up to it's travel without dive but still tracks really well. When I dialed it back some on the spring side, it did dive a bit more and rode lower than I wanted. It didn't feel that much more compliant, but changing the IRT seemed to have a bigger effect on that than the main pressure did. Changing the main alone seemed to reduce the ride height more than I wanted.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Looks like a flowy trail with a few embedded rocks and step downs on the way back down. Is that about right? Hard to tell from a video. Is that you?
    It doesn't look like the sort of trail you'd use 170mm of travel on, but I know video can be deceiving.

    Start with spring rate, this post of mine has what you want: https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...l#post14285541

    A 100kg rider is about 50lb/in spring-rate which you can get with 60/100psi.
    You've already gone close to that. So go lower and see how it feels. Try 50/80. Keep going lower until it wallows, then go firmer until it's harsh and jiggly. Then shoot for the middle between those two.

    Use this guide with a bounce test to baseline spring-rate, then rebound and compression: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...rt/setup-guide

    Don't increase HSC until you run out of LSC range. Once you've got everything dialled later then you can revisit HSC.
    Thanks Dougal.. yeah that's me and 170mm is definitely overkill. That travel wasn't by necessity for the terrain around here but ended up being the sweet spot on this particular frame for BB height and head angle. Not so concerned with using full travel, but I do look at that as a symptom if the air spring isn't feeling right.

  42. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
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    Would be really nice to hear your thoughts on the mezzer paired up with the ext storia? What do you like, what not?

  43. #443
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    Sadly I have not gotten on well with my Mezzer. After having a problem right out of the box, which I say was handled well by Manitou and fixed quickly. Had me at a rocky start to say the least. But regardless I pressed on. I have gotten about 200 miles on the fork and have gone through every combo of setting, and still not really feeling good on it. I have ridden it at the factory setting. I have reduced the overall spring with Dougals combinations. But really not able to get it to use full travel of lets say more then 130 on the 160 setting. The bushing I think have started clicking so it appears they are dry. So I am thinking of sending it to Italy to have Dave tune it and send it back. In the mean time Im jumping ship to a Fox 36 Ava. But the EXT, works very well.
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  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Sadly I have not gotten on well with my Mezzer. After having a problem right out of the box, which I say was handled well by Manitou and fixed quickly. Had me at a rocky start to say the least. But regardless I pressed on. I have gotten about 200 miles on the fork and have gone through every combo of setting, and still not really feeling good on it. I have ridden it at the factory setting. I have reduced the overall spring with Dougals combinations. But really not able to get it to use full travel of lets say more then 130 on the 160 setting. The bushing I think have started clicking so it appears they are dry. So I am thinking of sending it to Italy to have Dave tune it and send it back. In the mean time Im jumping ship to a Fox 36 Ava. But the EXT, works very well.
    I had a opposite experience, struggled for months with the ext storia (and still not fully satisfied, i think i'm going to sell it at this point) and with the mezzer i was happy since the first descent.
    Anyway i wouldn't lose my sleep for not using all the travel, it depends on the trails you ride and how aggressively. For the bushing is very easy to check it by yourself imo than sending it here (i'm italian ).
    And i highly doubt someone has tuning procedure ready for a fork like the mezzer, at the moment.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I had a opposite experience, struggled for months with the ext storia (and still not fully satisfied, i think i'm going to sell it at this point) and with the mezzer i was happy since the first descent.
    Hoping my experience with the Mezzer is in line with yours. Mine has just turned up and once the wheels arrive next week my build will be complete. Looking forward to checking this fork out!

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Hoping my experience with the Mezzer is in line with yours. Mine has just turned up and once the wheels arrive next week my build will be complete. Looking forward to checking this fork out!
    I have found the mezzer to be easy to setup and still if you setup it wrong is not unrideable, only thing i have noticed is that i needed at least 5 psi more than the pressures on the leg, for both main and IRT.

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Sadly I have not gotten on well with my Mezzer. After having a problem right out of the box, which I say was handled well by Manitou and fixed quickly. Had me at a rocky start to say the least. But regardless I pressed on. I have gotten about 200 miles on the fork and have gone through every combo of setting, and still not really feeling good on it. I have ridden it at the factory setting. I have reduced the overall spring with Dougals combinations. But really not able to get it to use full travel of lets say more then 130 on the 160 setting. The bushing I think have started clicking so it appears they are dry. So I am thinking of sending it to Italy to have Dave tune it and send it back. In the mean time Im jumping ship to a Fox 36 Ava. But the EXT, works very well.
    What settings were you running and how heavy are you?

    I've softened (and shortened) my Mezzer settings for trail riding since the original downhill test rides. I haven't finished the fine-tuning, let alone delved into the damper yet.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I have found the mezzer to be easy to setup and still if you setup it wrong is not unrideable, only thing i have noticed is that i needed at least 5 psi more than the pressures on the leg, for both main and IRT.
    The pressures on the leg are starting points for being set at full extension. If you lower the travel, you are also lowering the air volume and pressures increase.

    They are also based on average rider ability and trails. If you like to Huck or ride aggressively, you will be making changes

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post

    Reduced IRT 1psi for the hell of it. 62/85psi
    Rebound 3 clicks out
    HSC open
    LSC 8 clicks out
    Still plenty supportive, feeling pretty good on my after work trails which are flowyer with some punchy rocky tech sections. Still leaving 15-20mm travel unused.

    Was feeling ok with these settings until I tried it on my Sunday evening ride which is a bit chunkier and faster. See short video below for an example of this trail.

    https://youtu.be/unJ9Ju7K4-Q

    The fork while very supportive felt spikey and not very controlled/planted on the descents.. my old Lyrik was set up much better for this stuff. I also left around 30mm travel unused.

    I'm thinking I may need to reduce the IRT pressure even more to get rid of the spikeyness, not sure.
    Tried 50/80psi
    HSC open
    LSC 8 clicks out

    Wow.. different fork altogether. Very supple and compliant, getting into wallowy territory support wise. No bottoming though.

    55/80psi
    Compliance still seems good, support is back. Using a bit more travel than before, a little too much. I'll try 55/85psi next.

    - Tuneability definitely seems to be there with this fork, I'm seeing big differences with relatively small changes.

    - As others have said, the main spring pressure seems to have a much greater effect on overall feel than the IRT pressure.

    - The rebound circuit is noisy and seems to be a bit unrefined compared to my Lyrik. Hard to explain and maybe it's just the noise but there is something about it that seems cruder. Maybe it was the Rockshox dual stage "rapid recovery" curcuit that made it disappear more for me.

  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Tried 50/80psi
    HSC open
    LSC 8 clicks out

    Wow.. different fork altogether. Very supple and compliant, getting into wallowy territory support wise. No bottoming though.

    55/80psi
    Compliance still seems good, support is back. Using a bit more travel than before, a little too much. I'll try 55/85psi next.

    - Tuneability definitely seems to be there with this fork, I'm seeing big differences with relatively small changes.

    - As others have said, the main spring pressure seems to have a much greater effect on overall feel than the IRT pressure.

    - The rebound circuit is noisy and seems to be a bit unrefined compared to my Lyrik. Hard to explain and maybe it's just the noise but there is something about it that seems cruder. Maybe it was the Rockshox dual stage "rapid recovery" curcuit that made it disappear more for me.
    Manitou has always used shimmed rebound circuits, they just don't have a fancy name for it like "rapid recovery" because its basic tech that every fork and shock should have (blows my mind that they don't).

    My rebound is silent from memory, its definitely not loud. I'm on vacation for a few days, so I can't check mine. It makes me wonder if you need a damper bleed. How loud is it?

    I wouldn't worry about not using full travel. That's the HBO doing its job. Take a hard enough hit and you will bottom it out. Only time I have bottomed is when I over jumped to flat once. (Oops)

    The whole "use full travel on every ride" theory is dumb anyway. People sacrifice good ride characteristics to use full travel. Leave the last 15-20mm for "oh s$#!" Moments and enjoy your suspension that doesn't wallow and blow through its travel just so you can see an o-ring pushed to the top of the stanchion.

    Also, the Dorado air springs with IRT (Mezzer, Mattoc, Dorado) are very sensitive to pressure changes, especially in the IRT chamber. You seem to be in the fine tuning stage, so start making 2-3psi changes instead of 5. You might even get down to 1psi changes if you are sensitive enough.

  51. #451
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    Its quiet on compression but has a very pronounced slurp on rebound.

    I know the oil spec.. what bleed kit will I need to do one of these?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  52. #452
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    I am debating between selling my current fork, Lyrik Ultimate 170 29, to get a Mezzer or getting a DSD runt (and perhaps custom tuning from DSD) for the Lyrik. I weigh about 84kg, maybe 87kg with riding stuff. I have played around with the Lyrik settings a lot and generally settled on 92 to 95 PSI, 9 to 11 clicks out on rebound, and HSC/LSC varying depending on jumps/flow vs. rocky tech. Anyway, I feel the Lyrik rides too low, into the midstroke, even with 10 PSI over the top of RS's recommended settings. Also not really experiencing the super "supple" initial stroke that all the reviews rave about.

    So, it seems like adding the second air chamber in the top with a DSD runt would allow me to get lower main PSI for more initial compliance, with better midstroke and bottoming support. These are also touted features of the Mezzer with its IFP/IFT spring.

    From a stiffness standpoint, it seems like the Lyrik (running with torque caps) is about as good as it gets, and the Mezzer would only present marginal gains there, if any.

    So, I guess my question is -- is the compression and rebound damping in the stock Mezzer significantly better than charger 2.1 in the Lyrik Ultimate? If so, why? Seems like some folks in this thread are having some issues getting the Mezzer set up and that it may not be the holy grail it has been touted as. If the Mezzer will ultimately need tons of tinkering and/or custom tuning to deliver clearly superior performance, then I might as well stick with the platform I have and made the aftermarket upgrades and tuning. Is the Mezzer really that much better?

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACC View Post
    I am debating between selling my current fork, Lyrik Ultimate 170 29, to get a Mezzer or getting a DSD runt (and perhaps custom tuning from DSD) for the Lyrik. I weigh about 84kg, maybe 87kg with riding stuff. I have played around with the Lyrik settings a lot and generally settled on 92 to 95 PSI, 9 to 11 clicks out on rebound, and HSC/LSC varying depending on jumps/flow vs. rocky tech. Anyway, I feel the Lyrik rides too low, into the midstroke, even with 10 PSI over the top of RS's recommended settings. Also not really experiencing the super "supple" initial stroke that all the reviews rave about.

    So, it seems like adding the second air chamber in the top with a DSD runt would allow me to get lower main PSI for more initial compliance, with better midstroke and bottoming support. These are also touted features of the Mezzer with its IFP/IFT spring.

    From a stiffness standpoint, it seems like the Lyrik (running with torque caps) is about as good as it gets, and the Mezzer would only present marginal gains there, if any.

    So, I guess my question is -- is the compression and rebound damping in the stock Mezzer significantly better than charger 2.1 in the Lyrik Ultimate? If so, why? Seems like some folks in this thread are having some issues getting the Mezzer set up and that it may not be the holy grail it has been touted as. If the Mezzer will ultimately need tons of tinkering and/or custom tuning to deliver clearly superior performance, then I might as well stick with the platform I have and made the aftermarket upgrades and tuning. Is the Mezzer really that much better?
    I think you should spend the money upgrading and tuning the lyrik. Then get frustrated with it after all that and buy the Mezzer.

    I don't have any specific experience with the DSD runt or their custom tunes. But the Runt is a straight copy of other devices I have used (SD components DVC etc) and their rebound tuning scheme said enough.

    To answer your specific questions:
    1. Yes the Mezzer damping is significantly better than the Charger 2.1 and everything else out there. It acheives full support without harshness. The Charger 2.1 finally got rid of harshness, but offers no support. So people like yourself have to rely heavily on an air spring with way too much pressure in it.

    2. Yes the Mezzer has more setup options than almost any other fork. It takes time to get them dialled. I am still fine tuning mine. But even then it's beyond every other stock fork.

    The difference people are feeling is between getting beaten on other forks vs not getting beaten, having endless support and still having 20-30mm travel left on the same trails.

    What's the aim again?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    - The rebound circuit is noisy and seems to be a bit unrefined compared to my Lyrik. Hard to explain and maybe it's just the noise but there is something about it that seems cruder. Maybe it was the Rockshox dual stage "rapid recovery" curcuit that made it disappear more for me.
    That noise is the sound of oil going through shims. Sip, sip, sip.

    If a damper doesn't make that noise, then the shims aren't doing much. But some oils amplify the noise more than others.

    Rapid recovery was a bad joke. They finally ditched their silly preloaded rebound tunes for the Charger 2 and 2.1. Now they're using linear shimmed rebound. Just like my 23 year old 1996 Manitou EFC!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I don't have any specific experience with the DSD runt or their custom tunes. But the Runt is a straight copy of other devices I have used (SD components DVC etc) and their rebound tuning scheme said enough.

    To answer your specific questions:
    1. Yes the Mezzer damping is significantly better than the Charger 2.1 and everything else out there. It acheives full support without harshness. The Charger 2.1 finally got rid of harshness, but offers no support. So people like yourself have to rely heavily on an air spring with way too much pressure in it.

    2. Yes the Mezzer has more setup options than almost any other fork. It takes time to get them dialled. I am still fine tuning mine. But even then it's beyond every other stock fork.

    The difference people are feeling is between getting beaten on other forks vs not getting beaten, having endless support and still having 20-30mm travel left on the same trails.

    What's the aim again?
    You make a compelling pitch, haha! Yeah, I would prefer not to have to run high pressure plus tokens to avoid a harsh bottom out (have had several on the Lyrik) and to hold the fork up somewhat in its travel. Sounds like the set up time is worth it with the Mezzer and it is just a better platform than the other options.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACC View Post
    I am debating between selling my current fork, Lyrik Ultimate 170 29, to get a Mezzer or getting a DSD runt (and perhaps custom tuning from DSD) for the Lyrik. I weigh about 84kg, maybe 87kg with riding stuff. I have played around with the Lyrik settings a lot and generally settled on 92 to 95 PSI, 9 to 11 clicks out on rebound, and HSC/LSC varying depending on jumps/flow vs. rocky tech. Anyway, I feel the Lyrik rides too low, into the midstroke, even with 10 PSI over the top of RS's recommended settings. Also not really experiencing the super "supple" initial stroke that all the reviews rave about.

    So, it seems like adding the second air chamber in the top with a DSD runt would allow me to get lower main PSI for more initial compliance, with better midstroke and bottoming support. These are also touted features of the Mezzer with its IFP/IFT spring.

    From a stiffness standpoint, it seems like the Lyrik (running with torque caps) is about as good as it gets, and the Mezzer would only present marginal gains there, if any.

    So, I guess my question is -- is the compression and rebound damping in the stock Mezzer significantly better than charger 2.1 in the Lyrik Ultimate? If so, why? Seems like some folks in this thread are having some issues getting the Mezzer set up and that it may not be the holy grail it has been touted as. If the Mezzer will ultimately need tons of tinkering and/or custom tuning to deliver clearly superior performance, then I might as well stick with the platform I have and made the aftermarket upgrades and tuning. Is the Mezzer really that much better?
    You could try a Luftkappe first, relatively cheap to try and add a lot of mid stroke support, well it has on my 36 and I believe work the same for Lyrics

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFish View Post
    You could try a Luftkappe first, relatively cheap to try and add a lot of mid stroke support, well it has on my 36 and I believe work the same for Lyrics
    New lyrik already has fairly large negative chamber so it doesnt change much, Runt would improve it a lot more if you play with the setup long enough.

  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    New lyrik already has fairly large negative chamber so it doesnt change much, Runt would improve it a lot more if you play with the setup long enough.
    Oh, wasnt aware of that change to 2020 Lyrik, thanks

  59. #459
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    I just put a Mezzer on my Jeffsy CF 27, and wow...combined with a DHX2 shock (both 160mm)....I can ride just about anything with serious enjoyment. Spent the last couple weeks in Pisgah, Bailey, and Beech...and this thing shreds all terrain. Climbing the same Pisgah descents has also gotten much quicker, which was my biggest concern.

  60. #460
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    Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.

    I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.

    The setting I am going to run tomorrow are


    Air 52/85
    LSC -6
    Reb -5
    HSC Fully Open

    So far riding around the fork is already night and day difference to my last post which at that point I was pretty fed up. So here is to a new day. Also I am running the fork at 150mm on a 2019 carbon Stumpjumper EVO. Rear shock is back to the factory Fox shock.
    Transition Scout Carbon

  61. #461
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    I bought a Mezzer (44mm offset) for my new Hightower build and while I was waiting for a few parts to complete the build I thought I'd put the Mezzer on my Turbo Levo to see how it went.

    Short version...blown away at how good the fork is out of the box.

    The fork came at 180mm travel and I needed 160mm. First thing was to cut a slot in a spare cassette tool which took longer than actually changing the travel. The fork is very easy to work on, undo two nuts at the bottom (removed pressure btw), pull lowers keeping them level to save the oil, unscrew the air shaft with my new tool, fit spacers and refit it all. Job done.

    The bike is about 25kg and I'm about 86kg. I put 66psi in the main and 97psi in the IRT. rebound 6 out and both HSC and LSC fully open.

    The Levo comes stock with a 150mm travel 51mm offset Lyrik Select which is fine for medium trail riding but as soon as any high speed compressions happen things fall apart quite badly. It feels harsh and pings off line when it spikes and just doesn't recover quick enough over braking bumps etc. I'm also running max tokens to get enough progression to stop bottoming with between 105-110psi depending what I'm riding. I have an Avalanche damper coming for this fork but the Mezzer got here first...

    Riding the mellow trails I didn't really notice the lower offset of the Mezzer, felt as normal apart from riding quite a bit higher at the front. Yes it's 10mm more travel but the Mezzer was sitting way higher in its stroke compared to the Lyrik. I did notice the rebound circuit noise but it didn't bother me, not loud but it is there. I quite like it lol.

    Got to my first downhill section and the trail drops straight into a janky rock garden that lasts about 100m with multiple line choices. Previously I needed to pick my line, control my speed and avoid certain parts. This time, within a very short difference I could feel this fork was massively different. Different enough that instead of checking speed and getting all tense waiting for the harshness I could get off the brakes, relax and let the fork do its thing. The stiffness and controlled damping shone thru here. The fork encouraged me to go so much faster and the only thing that slowed me was now the rear shock!

    Normally I can pick what the fork needs pretty quickly in regards to adjustments but the Mezzer has been such a step up in performance compared to the Lyrik in this application that I wasn't even thinking about the fork as everything it was doing was ridiculously good and I was just riding the bike having fun (3 downhill KOM's on the one ride was an indication of the extra speed).

    The steering on the Levo has never felt that good through rough terrain. The fork was swallowing rocks like I have never experienced before, staying high in its travel going into corners....almost felt like I had found a way to legally cheat lol

    More feedback to come after a few more rides but after one ride I'm stoked!

  62. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.

    I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.

    The setting I am going to run tomorrow are


    Air 52/85
    LSC -6
    Reb -5
    HSC Fully Open

    So far riding around the fork is already night and day difference to my last post which at that point I was pretty fed up. So here is to a new day. Also I am running the fork at 150mm on a 2019 carbon Stumpjumper EVO. Rear shock is back to the factory Fox shock.
    I am always amazed at how forks and shocks come from the factory. My Fox stuff, dry. My Pike, dry. My Mcleod, dry. I really don't get it. Now, I just assume stuff will be dry before I install.

    Hopefully, this will fix your issue and give the permanence others seem to have.
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  63. #463
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    To be fair, when the factories greased seals/soaked foam rings in oil, people would cry that their fork is leaking from new when it is just the lube from assembly
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  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.

    I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.

    The setting I am going to run tomorrow are


    Air 52/85
    LSC -6
    Reb -5
    HSC Fully Open

    So far riding around the fork is already night and day difference to my last post which at that point I was pretty fed up. So here is to a new day. Also I am running the fork at 150mm on a 2019 carbon Stumpjumper EVO. Rear shock is back to the factory Fox shock.
    That's pretty much how I found the insides of my Mezzer when I opened it to reduce the travel. I didn't go as far as opening up the damper side or the IRT piston to check the lube due to time but will be doing that later this week.

    I'm 168lbs so am interested in hearing how you get on with your settings. I'm doing my maiden ride today so will see how it goes.
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  65. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Ok another update. After my last rant I think I have found what is hopefully the last of a few assembly problems. First my lowers had maybe 3-5ml of fluid in them. Also the upper wipers and seals were completely dry. All the O-rings had just alittle amount of lube on them. So I disassembled everything but the actual bladder. I lubed everything according to the older Mattoc Pro Service and added 20ml in each leg of Supergliss 100k. I am not sure that is actually the proper amount but I did see a post that Dougal said to use that much. I set the fork setting to what Dave from Rulezman Suspension.

    I am 165lbs. My regular loop has steep climbs, rock gardens and fast decents. The suspension normally is taxed and I have always been able to use all of the travel on my Fox 36, Ohlins EVO and Pike.

    The setting I am going to run tomorrow are


    Air 52/85
    LSC -6
    Reb -5
    HSC Fully Open

    So far riding around the fork is already night and day difference to my last post which at that point I was pretty fed up. So here is to a new day. Also I am running the fork at 150mm on a 2019 carbon Stumpjumper EVO. Rear shock is back to the factory Fox shock.
    That's a lot of pressure. I'm your weight and running about 35/55psi.

    What pressure were you running in your F36 and Pike?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That's a lot of pressure. I'm your weight and running about 35/55psi.

    What pressure were you running in your F36 and Pike?
    I never posted my set up. But I actually run higher pressures than Ken at a lower weight and a longer travel setting.

    This is my base settings, I'm still fine tuning and my settings change for different trails.

    52/83.5 @160mm travel
    HSC 2 clicks out from closed
    LSC 2 clicks out from closed (3 out when I'm slow and tired)
    LSR 8 clicks out from closed

    On most rides, I will use 140-145mm of travel. But I have smashed the rubber bumper twice on huge hits, so it will bottom

    I've kept up with the thread, but haven't posted much because of lack of time. One thing I should note is that the Mezzer spring has the IRT volume reduced and negative spring volume increased over the Mattoc. Because of this, the pressure gap between the main and IRT will be smaller. A few people struggling with set ups might want to raise main pressure slightly and lower IRT. A big gap in pressure might be to progressive and feel harsh. A 20-30psi gap depending on riding style/type is what seems to be the range that most people are falling into.

  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I never posted my set up. But I actually run higher pressures than Ken at a lower weight and a longer travel setting.

    This is my base settings, I'm still fine tuning and my settings change for different trails.

    52/83.5 @160mm travel
    HSC 2 clicks out from closed
    LSC 2 clicks out from closed (3 out when I'm slow and tired)
    LSR 8 clicks out from closed

    On most rides, I will use 140-145mm of travel. But I have smashed the rubber bumper twice on huge hits, so it will bottom

    I've kept up with the thread, but haven't posted much because of lack of time. One thing I should note is that the Mezzer spring has the IRT volume reduced and negative spring volume increased over the Mattoc. Because of this, the pressure gap between the main and IRT will be smaller. A few people struggling with set ups might want to raise main pressure slightly and lower IRT. A big gap in pressure might be to progressive and feel harsh. A 20-30psi gap depending on riding style/type is what seems to be the range that most people are falling into.
    Yeah I decided a long time back that you and I have very different riding styles and that's what's driving very different setups on similar hardware. The rear shock air-cans and rebound valving shows this too.

    I'm getting these Mezzer IRT pressures from modified tables the Manitou Engineers produced.
    I converted them to equivalent mid-stroke spring-rates to get intial setup numbers that work with my bike spring calculators.

    Mattoc IRT pressures do not swap across to Mezzer.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yeah I decided a long time back that you and I have very different riding styles and that's what's driving very different setups on similar hardware. The rear shock air-cans and rebound valving shows this too.

    I'm getting these Mezzer IRT pressures from modified tables the Manitou Engineers produced.
    I converted them to equivalent mid-stroke spring-rates to get intial setup numbers that work with my bike spring calculators.

    Mattoc IRT pressures do not swap across to Mezzer.
    Yeah, different trails and different riding styles I presume. A lot of suspension is preference as well. I'm really surprised by how stiff I can run the spring, AND close the damper, AND still have a supple fork. Everytime I ride I am blown away by how good this thing is. The Mara pairs perfect with it as well.

    My IRT comment wasn't aimed at you, was just a general comment based on what people with so called "spikey" forks are saying. 40psi pressure gaps don't work on the Mezzer like they do on the Mattoc.

    You and I both know the damper will not spike.

  69. #469
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    Update after taking it apart and lubing all the O-rings and wipers etc the fork has turned around pretty well. I think I might have used to much oil in each leg at the moment. I put 20ml of supergliss in each leg. With out a service manual I just went off what I read on this thread. Also I did get two big spikes and felt it in my wrist the fork still only used 115mm of the 150mm travel it supposed to have. On the flip side the small bump was good and the mid support also very good. I ran it with the settings recommended from Dave.

    52/85
    LSC -6
    HSC Open
    REB -5

    I think I will try adjusting the amount of supergliss in the legs if someone tells me the proper ML or CC.
    Reduce the air pressure to 52/72 and see if this helps get more travel but retain the low speed supple and mid stroke support.

    Till tomorrows ride.

    Edit Update - Just called the future AKA New Zealand and talked to Dougal. Everything I seem to be doing is right, however Im going to try 35/55 pressures tomorrow. The HBO circuit seems to be to strong for me as well as a few others. But anyways just want to say Thanks to Dougal and also Dave for there help. I wish Manitou or Hayes would be as helpful with there experience.
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  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    LOL was just going to post that... beat me to it..
    Definitely will be purchasing one next year. While my Lyrik is much better after removal of the MRP Ramp Control (believe something was wrong with it) and a couple weeks with a ShockWiz on it, it still a bit underwhelming. So will commence squirreling away money for the inevitable purchase of a Mezzer 44mm. Best part though is that the chrome graphics will match my Smash Chrome graphics!!

  72. #472
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    Update, Finally got to experience this fork to 95% of what is capable of! With the pressure set lower 35/55 on the 150mm of travel setting for my 165lbs it worked perfectly. HSC was full Open or all the way turned counter clockwise, LSC was set -6 from full closed so otherwise turned counter clockwise 6 clicks. The REB was set in the middle. I was able to use 130mm of travel, no wallowing, plenty of mid support plus the low speed was smooth and tracked very well. So I could encourage you enough to pull the IRT out and lub the O Rings, the Main Air Chamber and lube them as well, plus make sure you have the proper amount of oil in the fork legs.

    The one thing I can find a problem with is the compression side of this valving seems to be on the stiff side for my weight. So if I could soften it alittle I would be set. Maybe Dave Rulezman's new RRT upgrade could make this fork killer. For me this is hovering around the best fork I have ever used.

    So there it is.

    Thank you to everyone on this thread that helped gain knowledge and special thanks to Dougal for talking my calls and Dave Rulezman for the quick email reply's.
    Transition Scout Carbon

  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    I have an Avalanche damper coming for this fork but the Mezzer got here first...
    Can you let us know how they compare? I've got a couple avy lyriks. Wondering how the mezzer feels different.

  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Definitely will be purchasing one next year.
    By that time we'll have the new 38 and Totem and maybe even a new DVO and the process of indecision will start again, haha
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
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  75. #475
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    @Dougal

    My Mezzer is on its way to my bike :-) just a basic question. Which pressure would rather produce spiking, too high pressure in the main or irt chamber?

    Rebound speed : when I got it right somewhere in this thread, the mezzer in contrast to the mattoc, which likes to be ridden with fairly open lsr, should be ridden rather with half closed lsr, so that it tends to feel a bit slow in the car park test, correct?

    Gab maximum between main and irt 30 percent or 30 psi?

  76. #476
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    does mezzer have preloaded rebound stack? I feel like mattoc rebound fits me better.

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    @Dougal

    My Mezzer is on its way to my bike :-) just a basic question. Which pressure would rather produce spiking, too high pressure in the main or irt chamber?

    Rebound speed : when I got it right somewhere in this thread, the mezzer in contrast to the mattoc, which likes to be ridden with fairly open lsr, should be ridden rather with half closed lsr, so that it tends to feel a bit slow in the car park test, correct?

    Gab maximum between main and irt 30 percent or 30 psi?
    This is as simple as I can make it:

    Top IRT pressure (psi) = rider weight (plus gear) in kg
    Bottom pos/neg pressure (psi) = 60% of the above.

    So a 100kg rider would be 100/60psi

    These are very different results to Manitou's own recommendations. Basically if you're riding harder on smoother terrain then you'll closer to the higher Manitou pressures. If you're on rocks or roots you'll be closer to mine.

    @nikon255 I don't think so, because they never have before, but I haven't checked yet.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  78. #478
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    Speaking of lube..

    I ordered a bottle of semi bath (Hayes 85-0023) and got this:



    I thought the bath oil was a motorex 5w/40 product?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Speaking of lube..

    I ordered a bottle of semi bath (Hayes 85-0023) and got this:



    I thought the bath oil was a motorex 5w/40 product?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    That's the blue damper oil and that's the correct p/n for that bottle. But the wrong description.

    Semi-bath is 85-0022
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  80. #480
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    Dougal would you use this 85-0022 if you service the damper and then Supergliss as the oil bath in each leg?

    Also do you have the procedure to service the valving/bladder side?

    Thanks
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  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Dougal would you use this 85-0022 if you service the damper and then Supergliss as the oil bath in each leg?

    Also do you have the procedure to service the valving/bladder side?

    Thanks
    85-0022 is Motorex Semi-Bath 5W40 for the lower legs
    85-0023 is Maxima 5wt for the damper.

    I use Motorex 2.5wt for most dampers, because I buy it by the drum and Shockcraft Hot Oil Green or Pink for higher stress applications.
    But the Maxima works fine and is the factory fill.

    I don't have a proceedure to strip/rebuild the damper cartridge. Bleeding however is easy. It uses the same M5 fittings as Shimano mineral oil brakes and Reverb dropper posts.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That's the blue damper oil and that's the correct p/n for that bottle. But the wrong description.

    Semi-bath is 85-0022
    Thanks man.. universal cycles as well as a bunch of other online sources have this stuff listed as semi-bath. Odd.

    Ill just use up the Fox 20wt gold Ive got I suppose, should be fine.


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  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yeah I decided a long time back that you and I have very different riding styles and that's what's driving very different setups on similar hardware. The rear shock air-cans and rebound valving shows this too.

    I'm getting these Mezzer IRT pressures from modified tables the Manitou Engineers produced.
    I converted them to equivalent mid-stroke spring-rates to get intial setup numbers that work with my bike spring calculators.

    Mattoc IRT pressures do not swap across to Mezzer.
    Thank you.
    But you forgot my other questions. Would be useful to know the other answers for troubleshooting :-)

  84. #484
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    Im 160lbs and was bottoming 40/80psi 180mm mezzer easily. Mattoc has stronger bottom resistance. 55/90 felt good on parking lot but was harsh on trail. I guess too high irt pressure. According to posts above gonna reduce split and test again. How do I know if pressure should be rised or compression added?

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Im 160lbs and was bottoming 40/80psi 180mm mezzer easily. Mattoc has stronger bottom resistance. 55/90 felt good on parking lot but was harsh on trail. I guess too high irt pressure. According to posts above gonna reduce split and test again. How do I know if pressure should be rised or compression added?
    I've got more time to answer now.
    55/90 is way too high for 160lb rider. Try 40/80 or 35/55 and then in between.

    The Mezzer has bigger pistons than the Mattoc, so same pressure gives more spring force.

    Once you have the spring-rate right by a frequency test (bounce on the bike, front and rear should respond evenly and be ridable with no rebound damping).
    Then add damping.
    Go LSC first, go full closed on that before adding HSC.

    Then fine-tune once you have thobse bracketed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    @Dougal

    My Mezzer is on its way to my bike :-) just a basic question. Which pressure would rather produce spiking, too high pressure in the main or irt chamber?

    Rebound speed : when I got it right somewhere in this thread, the mezzer in contrast to the mattoc, which likes to be ridden with fairly open lsr, should be ridden rather with half closed lsr, so that it tends to feel a bit slow in the car park test, correct?

    Gab maximum between main and irt 30 percent or 30 psi?
    Best start point is IRT about 1.5x main pressure and set frequency. You can increase IRT pressure from there but it shortens the mid-stroke by making the ramp up sooner and bigger.
    So rocks and roots can start to kick you at mid-travel if IRT pressure is too high compared to main.

    Rebound I was running about 6 clicks from closed. It feels like a different shape rebound damping curve to the Mattoc but I haven't investigated further yet.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  86. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I've got more time to answer now.
    55/90 is way too high for 160lb rider. Try 40/80 or 35/55 and then in between.

    The Mezzer has bigger pistons than the Mattoc, so same pressure gives more spring force.

    Once you have the spring-rate right by a frequency test (bounce on the bike, front and rear should respond evenly and be ridable with no rebound damping).
    Then add damping.
    Go LSC first, go full closed on that before adding HSC.

    Then fine-tune once you have thobse bracketed.



    Best start point is IRT about 1.5x main pressure and set frequency. You can increase IRT pressure from there but it shortens the mid-stroke by making the ramp up sooner and bigger.
    So rocks and roots can start to kick you at mid-travel if IRT pressure is too high compared to main.

    Rebound I was running about 6 clicks from closed. It feels like a different shape rebound damping curve to the Mattoc but I haven't investigated further yet.
    To be honest 40/80 is way too soft. Bottoms too often. HBO/bumper is weaker than mattoc. Thats my main problem. I rode 55/90 with no rebound at all, cuz only then its supple on small bumps. Only drops to flat kicked back and during front wheel rising top out occured. Moreover I can make 30-40km of pure descending in bikepark bumps, dh and fr tracks so small bump compliance is important. I have 3 airpumps, all shows the same pressures. Im gonna leave main pressure like this, cuz it was evaluated in bouncing test. I felt like irt could be reduced. Other way is to drop it to 40/80 which gives almost 30% sag, close lsc and test. I feel a little lost with setting mezzer to my liking.

  87. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    To be honest 40/80 is way too soft. Bottoms too often. HBO/bumper is weaker than mattoc. Thats my main problem. I rode 55/90 with no rebound at all, cuz only then its supple on small bumps. Only drops to flat kicked back and during front wheel rising top out occured. Moreover I can make 30-40km of pure descending in bikepark bumps, dh and fr tracks so small bump compliance is important. I have 3 airpumps, all shows the same pressures. Im gonna leave main pressure like this, cuz it was evaluated in bouncing test. I felt like irt could be reduced. Other way is to drop it to 40/80 which gives almost 30% sag, close lsc and test. I feel a little lost with setting mezzer to my liking.
    I found 40/80 to be fine on my first DH ride but too firm for trail. Bring in more compression damping for bottom-out control.

    It's not a Lyrik, you don't need or want the air-spring to do all the big hit work!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  88. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I found 40/80 to be fine on my first DH ride but too firm for trail. Bring in more compression damping for bottom-out control.

    It's not a Lyrik, you don't need or want the air-spring to do all the big hit work!
    I used to leave compression open. Gonna give it a try. Are you 160lbs? I misscalculated my weight. Im 165lbs. What are your exact settings for bike park days with big features?

  89. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    I used to leave compression open. Gonna give it a try. Are you 160lbs? I misscalculated my weight. Im 165lbs. What are your exact settings for bike park days with big features?
    I'm 170 lbs and i run 55/85 psi, 2 hsc from open, 5 lsc from open. Forgot rebound.

    I find it the very comfortable even on bike park days

    I started with 60/90 and still was good, but i like it more with the latest settings

  90. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I'm 170 lbs and i run 55/85 psi, 2 hsc from open, 5 lsc from open. Forgot rebound.

    I find it the very comfortable even on bike park days

    I started with 60/90 and still was good, but i like it more with the latest settings
    Thanks. 50/80 should be good starting point.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    If you're feeling no difference at all between fully open and fully closed, then we need someone else to take a look at your fork.

    The full sweep of both adjusters should take you somewhere from 5-30 kg of force at 1 m/s.

    *edit* But you'll only acheive like 0.1-0.2 m/s with hand compression, which is a lot less damping force.
    */edit*
    Have the fork reinstalled on a new frame. 64/102 pressure. I have to VERY lightly push the bars to feel a very slight difference between full closed and full open. Set up a 5" square edge and hit it @15mph....zero difference in feel. emptied IRT. Dropped main to 35. same result open and closed.

  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Have the fork reinstalled on a new frame. 64/102 pressure. I have to VERY lightly push the bars to feel a very slight difference between full closed and full open. Set up a 5" square edge and hit it @15mph....zero difference in feel. emptied IRT. Dropped main to 35. same result open and closed.
    what closed? HSC, LSC or both???

  93. #493
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    Both. Both fully closed. Both fully opened. Both Opposite one another.

  94. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Thanks. 50/80 should be good starting point.
    Small changes make a large difference as well. Once you are in the ballpark, start changing by only 2 psi or less. I'm the same weight and have tried different pressures, but always seem to end up back around 52/82. 52/80 was too soft on the mid stroke and 55/80 was just plain too stiff. Just a few psi is very noticeable

  95. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Small changes make a large difference as well. Once you are in the ballpark, start changing by only 2 psi or less. I'm the same weight and have tried different pressures, but always seem to end up back around 52/82. 52/80 was too soft on the mid stroke and 55/80 was just plain too stiff. Just a few psi is very noticeable
    Did you try silly soft yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Did you try silly soft yet?
    Going that direction tomorrow. My Mara spring settings wouldn't have paired well with it today, I was looking to achieve good balance for a "aggressive" set up (was riding alone, so pace was faster). I'll make the changes tonight to achieve balance with a softer spring.

  97. #497
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    I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

    I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  98. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

    I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.
    I dont think its any harder to set up than any other fork with high and low speed compression. The spring is slightly more complicated, but its the only air spring that lets you dial in mid stroke support without compromising beginning or ending stroke. That small amount of effort is worth the few rides it takes to get it dialed in.

  99. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Small changes make a large difference as well. Once you are in the ballpark, start changing by only 2 psi or less. I'm the same weight and have tried different pressures, but always seem to end up back around 52/82. 52/80 was too soft on the mid stroke and 55/80 was just plain too stiff. Just a few psi is very noticeable
    Wow, 2psi makes that much difference!, so a change in temperature from early morning ride to afternoon ride would have it feeling completely different?
    In fact a decent run from top to bottom of a challenging trail would see that amount of psi change with the heat build up. I can see a 7psi change in my rear shock from top to bottom of a park lap.

  100. #500
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    Try a coil, and get your damper tuned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

    I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.
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  101. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    50/80
    How many kilos do you weigh ready for riding?

  102. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    85-0022 is Motorex Semi-Bath 5W40 for the lower legs
    85-0023 is Maxima 5wt for the damper.

    I use Motorex 2.5wt for most dampers, because I buy it by the drum and Shockcraft Hot Oil Green or Pink for higher stress applications.
    But the Maxima works fine and is the factory fill.

    I don't have a proceedure to strip/rebuild the damper cartridge. Bleeding however is easy. It uses the same M5 fittings as Shimano mineral oil brakes and Reverb dropper posts.
    DOUGAL, when I change travel does the washer, that sits directly beneath the air piston in 180mm configuration definitely need to be below the spacers, thus from bottom to top, washer, travelspacer airpiston? Or can it be travelspacer, washer, airpiston, too? Because I happened to do it the latter way and just do not want to open it up again. Or will this result in any damage or disadvantage?

  103. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFish View Post
    Wow, 2psi makes that much difference!, so a change in temperature from early morning ride to afternoon ride would have it feeling completely different?
    In fact a decent run from top to bottom of a challenging trail would see that amount of psi change with the heat build up. I can see a 7psi change in my rear shock from top to bottom of a park lap.
    Air volume is much larger, so I don't think you will see much pressure change from temperature changes or friction. I haven't noticed any mid ride changes in feel

  104. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

    I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.
    That's reasonable.

    I've only got 2 rides on mine, but i basically just set it to the recommendations in this chart and was pretty delighted with the results. I could definitely just stop now. But the adjustments don't turn it shitty, so it's a pleasure to tweak it a bit and see if i can make it better. I doubt ill mess with the adjustments once i'm done with them.




    Manitou Mezzer-screenshot-2019-07-07-22.02.56.jpg
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  106. #506
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    I'd like to read review of mezzer done by bike park warrior. Its a dam 37mm chasis fork. Not trail noodle. Otherwise every review include the same "not harsh, compliant, hard to bottom, stiff". Such a bland review.

  107. #507
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    so i am not the only one whom finds the that the HSC/LSC adjustments have little impact. i've always been crazy but its kept me from going insane....

  108. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    so i am not the only one whom finds the that the HSC/LSC adjustments have little impact. i've always been crazy but its kept me from going insane....
    Every manitou fork i've ever had has been like that. Some of the adjustments feel like they don't do anything unless you're on the trail. I don't really see it as a bad thing, you just can't assume you're gonna run half the adjusters fully open.
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  109. #509
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    I can say that LSC and HSC makes clear difference on trail. Even at home I could feel the difference.

  110. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    I'd like to read review of mezzer done by bike park warrior. Its a dam 37mm chasis fork. Not trail noodle. Otherwise every review include the same "not harsh, compliant, hard to bottom, stiff". Such a bland review.
    Not sure I would call myself a park rat, but i have two rides on mine at Trestle and Keystone. Previous setup was ACS3 F36 w Push Tune, 160mm, Evil Wreckoning. This go round was Mezzer 180mm, Pole Stamina. not exactly apples to apples but the Mezzer gave up nothing in to my freshly modded F36 in the park. Plenty stiff and precise for my 215lbs. With suggested settings, I only found the bottom once....the o ring informed me, nothing was transmitted to the hands.

  111. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Every manitou fork i've ever had has been like that. Some of the adjustments feel like they don't do anything unless you're on the trail. I don't really see it as a bad thing, you just can't assume you're gonna run half the adjusters fully open.
    my experience is not the same. and its also not based of bouncing on the bike in my kitchen. its based off of back to back park runs and days. i've never run my compression fully open. to do so would allow you too get deep in the travel quicker than desirable...which would put you in the endstroke of the damping and the ramp up of the air spring. you'd be supple off the top and then immediately firm. i like my fork to stay high in the travel on small stuff and not dive right into that firm ramp up...i've always preferred firmer settings w/ appropriate support from the spring. When I sent my ACS3 F36 and 11.6 in for a tune up, unsolicited, Push actually commented that my settings were firmer then most, but appropriate.

  112. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

    I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.
    Some people like to tinker with their settings, you'll find similar discussions on almost every other thread for every other fork, including the Lyrik RC2. There is nothing more complicated on the Mezzer than any other fork. The recommended settings are really close and if you don't want to make a bunch of tinkering adjustments, then you'd probably be happy with that. It gives you the option to adjust for a more precise feel if you want to, though.

  113. #513
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    My Mezzer has been feeling a bit sticky/notchy so I compared it to my Lyrik side by side and the Lyrik is indeed much smoother moving through its travel.

    I decided to tear into it to check the bath oil and add a travel spacer.

    The good:
    -There seemed to be plenty of bath oil. I didnt measure the volume but both legs appeared to have been filled appropriately.

    -After using and servicing Rockshox forks for years, this thing was a JOY to work on. I now understand why folks praise the serviceability of Manitou forks.

    The bad:
    -Nothing was tightened very well from the factory. The IRT cap and air spring retainer were damn near hand tight

    -There was very little grease on the IRT or air spring pistons.

    -The dust seals were bone dry. Not under lubricated, Im talking brand new out of the package never touched by grease DRY.

    -At first I thought the foam rings were saturated with oil because of their dark color (used to RS white foam). Upon closer inspection I realized they were also brand new out of package dry. On the plus side, they are made of a firmer more dense foam than RS uses so they were very easy to remove and install after soaking without removing the seals.

    Definitely feels smoother now after properly lubing everything.. well see how she performs.

    Dry seals and foam rings




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  114. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I just have to say this after reading through this thread. Please don't take it as criticism, as that's not what's intended.

    I was pretty interested in this fork, but the difficulty or amount of tweaking it appears is needed to get to a proper level of performance does seem excessive. Probably a character flaw, but I just don't want to dork around with my suspension that much. Think I'll probably stick to the Lyrik that I'm happy with.
    On a Lyrik the compression adjusters do basically nothing, so all you can do is set air pressure, set rebound and ride.

    You can do that on the Mezzer too and it's better like that than a Lyrik. But there's a lot more to tweak if you want to on the Mezzer and there are benefits to doing so.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  115. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    DOUGAL, when I change travel does the washer, that sits directly beneath the air piston in 180mm configuration definitely need to be below the spacers, thus from bottom to top, washer, travelspacer airpiston? Or can it be travelspacer, washer, airpiston, too? Because I happened to do it the latter way and just do not want to open it up again. Or will this result in any damage or disadvantage?
    On the Mattoc the washer was needed under the spacer as the top-out bumper didn't have full support from the clip-in spacers. So the bumper gets pushed into an awkward place and you get more stroke than you had the fork set at.

    On the Mezzer it probably won't matter. The two piece spacers are pretty flat.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  116. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    My Mezzer has been feeling a bit sticky/notchy so I compared it to my Lyrik side by side and the Lyrik is indeed much smoother moving through its travel.

    I decided to tear into it to check the bath oil and add a travel spacer.

    The good:
    -There seemed to be plenty of bath oil. I didnt measure the volume but both legs appeared to have been filled appropriately.

    -After using and servicing Rockshox forks for years, this thing was a JOY to work on. I now understand why folks praise the serviceability of Manitou forks.

    The bad:
    -Nothing was tightened very well from the factory. The IRT cap and air spring retainer were damn near hand tight

    -There was very little grease on the IRT or air spring pistons.

    -The dust seals were bone dry. Not under lubricated, Im talking brand new out of the package never touched by grease DRY.

    -At first I thought the foam rings were saturated with oil because of their dark color (used to RS white foam). Upon closer inspection I realized they were also brand new out of package dry. On the plus side, they are made of a firmer more dense foam than RS uses so they were very easy to remove and install after soaking without removing the seals.

    Definitely feels smoother now after properly lubing everything.. well see how she performs.

    Dry seals and foam rings




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    My experience was similar but a it better.

    A bit oil in the lowers.

    The foam rings were properly soaked in oil. If you squeezed them a little you would see the oil come out

    But the dust wipers where dry as well

    Main air spring was greased.

    The irt piston more from above and underneath but the worker did not make sure that the ring is greased all around.

    Summary:

    It is indeed better to open the fork up one time before first use.

  117. #517
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    Did someone already open up the damper and could show pictures of the comp ression and rebound piston?

    I would be really interested to compare it to some pistons of different tuners

  118. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    My experience was similar but a it better.

    A bit oil in the lowers.

    The foam rings were properly soaked in oil. If you squeezed them a little you would see the oil come out

    But the dust wipers where dry as well

    Main air spring was greased.

    The irt piston more from above and underneath but the worker did not make sure that the ring is greased all around.

    Summary:

    It is indeed better to open the fork up one time before first use.
    Similar experience with mine. Wipers completely dry, piston seals barely had grease, IRT piston shaft was bone dray so the piston head had a lot of drag and was sticky. IRT cap was tight though.

    I did not open the damper side as that was sliding freely and didn't seem to have any stiction so left it.

    To be fair, I think you should open any new fork from any manufacturer and check the grease and oil as it seems fairly common for them to come a little dry from the factory. Fortunately the Mezzer is real easy to work on.
    Pole Evolink 140

  119. #519
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    Test ride on Thursday when it stays dry on my home trails. Otherwise Sunday in bikepark to have a dial in session
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-img_20190929_184518.jpg  

    Manitou Mezzer-img_20190929_195825.jpg  


  120. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Test ride on Thursday when it stays dry on my home trails. Otherwise Sunday in bikepark to have a dial in session
    That's hot!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  121. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I dont think its any harder to set up than any other fork with high and low speed compression. The spring is slightly more complicated, but its the only air spring that lets you dial in mid stroke support without compromising beginning or ending stroke. That small amount of effort is worth the few rides it takes to get it dialed in.
    To be fair,

    HI/LO Comp already is a struggle that many complain about. It's probably why most forks went to LSC/REB only for many years.

    That second air spring isn't really just one extra adjustment either, it effectively doubles the adjustments as air spring and damping has to work together. Change one and you very well might have to change the other to balance everything back out.

    I do agree though, if you are willing to put in the effort, that third air chamber does seem to be worth the hassle.

  122. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    To be fair,

    HI/LO Comp already is a struggle that many complain about. It's probably why most forks went to LSC/REB only for many years.

    That second air spring isn't really just one extra adjustment either, it effectively doubles the adjustments as air spring and damping has to work together. Change one and you very well might have to change the other to balance everything back out.

    I do agree though, if you are willing to put in the effort, that third air chamber does seem to be worth the hassle.
    A lot of people over-complicate how to set adjusters. LSC/HSC is actually really simple. Start with LSC and if you have it fully closed and still want more than add HSC.

    IRT is complicated. But I have simple rules for setting that up too.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  123. #523
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    Update on a few changes I made. Dropped the pressures slightly, now running 88psi in the IRT(I'm 88kgs) and 53psi in the main LSC -1 from fully closed and rebound -6 from fully closed.

    Still very supportive and now even more active (I was running 97/66psi). With the LSC almost closed it gave the support in g-outs and braking but the biggest thing I noticed today was how it handled repeated high speed hits even better. Tracking was sensational before but with these changes it got even better.

    I'll continue to test and adjust...loving it!

  124. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Update on a few changes I made. Dropped the pressures slightly, now running 88psi in the IRT(I'm 88kgs) and 53psi in the main LSC -1 from fully closed and rebound -6 from fully closed.

    Still very supportive and now even more active (I was running 97/66psi). With the LSC almost closed it gave the support in g-outs and braking but the biggest thing I noticed today was how it handled repeated high speed hits even better. Tracking was sensational before but with these changes it got even better.

    I'll continue to test and adjust...loving it!
    Funny. I almost weigh the same and that are the pressures I landed on by sag and Dougal's Formula in my garage and by rolling on the street. Compression is open in the moment, lsr 4 from open, thus +4 Now I am really keen to test the results on the first ride.

  125. #525
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    Has anyone had a chance to compare the Motorex Racing Fork Oil to the Supergliss? I'm curious how they compare in performance, since they seem a bit more readily available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    Well it looks like I'll be opening my fork up again. I didn't move the washer down below the spacer. In fact I don't even remember seeing one. My bump stop was stuck so hard to the top I needed to give it a real tug to free it.

    I hope David does a damper side strip down and how to bleed it. That would pretty much cover everything there is to know about servicing the fork.
    Pole Evolink 140

  128. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Well it looks like I'll be opening my fork up again. I didn't move the washer down below the spacer. In fact I don't even remember seeing one. My bump stop was stuck so hard to the top I needed to give it a real tug to free it.

    I hope David does a damper side strip down and how to bleed it. That would pretty much cover everything there is to know about servicing the fork.
    I don't remember any washer and my piston was black, on the video is white. Mine is working good. Actually i have a mattoc spacers on it, mezzer one wasn't available at that time

  129. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Has anyone had a chance to compare the Motorex Racing Fork Oil to the Supergliss? I'm curious how they compare in performance, since they seem a bit more readily available.
    The racing fork oil is a damper fluid, the supergliss is a semi bath fluid. Not interchangeable.

  130. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by shmity View Post
    The racing fork oil is a damper fluid, the supergliss is a semi bath fluid. Not interchangeable.
    Oof yea, you are right, I missed that.

  131. #531
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    Good lord that is stupid simple compared to my RS Lyrik. Commence squirreling away pennies for next season!

  132. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Oof yea, you are right, I missed that.
    Im pretty sure Dougal or Mullen put some alternatives to the supergliss bath oil in the mattoc thread, so there are definitely other options.

  133. #533
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    motorex power synt 4t 5w40

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    Can anyone explain or show how to rebuild or change the oil in the Damper. I would like to change the oil in my damper and confirm its right.

    Thanks
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  135. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Can anyone explain or show how to rebuild or change the oil in the Damper. I would like to change the oil in my damper and confirm its right.

    Thanks
    Simple way. Undo the bleeder grub screw down by the shaft end. Squeeze and release the bladder to pump the old oil out.

    Attach a bleed syringe full of oil, arrange the damper so the bleed port is up and pump the syringe to push oil into the damper and suck air out. Repeat until you're happy and remove the syringe to cap the hole when the bladder is relaxed at full shaft extension.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  136. #536
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    From factory bladder at full extension is a little bit squezzed.

  137. #537
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    Dougal, do you know how long it typically is before Manitou get the service manual out for a new fork? Wondering when we can expect to see one on their site.
    Pole Evolink 140

  138. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    From factory bladder at full extension is a little bit squezzed.
    Yes they are, but they can vent overfill so it's not a problem. I suspect the factory bleed them with the shaft at a specific extension length.

    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Dougal, do you know how long it typically is before Manitou get the service manual out for a new fork? Wondering when we can expect to see one on their site.
    Variable. Sometimes they release a group manual, sometimes it's one specific.

    Basic service on the Mezzer is actually less complicated than tuning it. Which is pretty funny.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  139. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes they are, but they can vent overfill so it's not a problem. I suspect the factory bleed them with the shaft at a specific extension length.



    Variable. Sometimes they release a group manual, sometimes it's one specific.

    Basic service on the Mezzer is actually less complicated than tuning it. Which is pretty funny.
    Help!
    As the nuts can only be tightenEd lightely, the air valves cap cannot be loosened anymore. The nut turns along with cap and i cannot undo it anymore.
    Feel like I have to destroy the air cap with a flex. It is really a bit strange that the air and damper shaft turn so easily that you cannot tighten the nut that much

  140. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Help!
    As the nuts can only be tightenEd lightely, the air valves cap cannot be loosened anymore. The nut turns along with cap and i cannot undo it anymore.
    Feel like I have to destroy the air cap with a flex. It is really a bit strange that the air and damper shaft turn so easily that you cannot tighten the nut that much
    So you are tightening the nuts to 35in/lb and the valve is spinning? Sounds like the nut might be under tightened.

    Id remove the IRT piston and use a non metallic tool to put pressure on the top of the air piston to prevent the spinning just enough to get the cap off.. then tighten the nut a little more.


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  141. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Help!
    As the nuts can only be tightenEd lightely, the air valves cap cannot be loosened anymore. The nut turns along with cap and i cannot undo it anymore.
    Feel like I have to destroy the air cap with a flex. It is really a bit strange that the air and damper shaft turn so easily that you cannot tighten the nut that much
    You hold the shafts (8mm allen damper side, 8mm socket air side) and use a box wrench to tighten the nuts to hold the lowers on.
    Last edited by mullen119; 10-05-2019 at 04:52 AM.

  142. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    A lot of people over-complicate how to set adjusters. LSC/HSC is actually really simple. Start with LSC and if you have it fully closed and still want more than add HSC.
    Does this recommendation apply to all forks or just the Mezzer?

  143. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    You hold the shafts (8mm allen damper side, 6mm socket air side) and use a box wrench to tighten the nuts to hold the lowers on.
    No when putting on the nut, it spun, so that I could probably not apply enough force to tighten it. Now the aircap sits to tight in relation to the nut. Both start to spin when 8 want to pull the air cap off. But as the threads are different I won't work. The thread of the aircap is finer. Thus they block each other.i have only a gap of 1 mm on which I could fix the air rod to prevent it from moving while the aircap thread of

  144. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    No when putting on the nut, it spun, so that I could probably not apply enough force to tighten it. Now the aircap sits to tight in relation to the nut. Both start to spin when 8 want to pull the air cap off. But as the threads are different I won't work. The thread of the aircap is finer. Thus they block each other.i have only a gap of 1 mm on which I could fix the air rod to prevent it from moving while the aircap thread of
    That's what I'm saying. The nut spun because you didn't told the shaft with a 8mm socket as you tightened it. Now its loose and spins. You have to hold the shafts as you tighten the foot nuts.

    You can try to compress the fork to build air pressure to hold the air piston/shaft still. They may help you remove the air cap. Once you remove it, properly tighten the foot nuts.

  145. #545
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    So i've ridden the fork 6 times now, and finally have the settings dialed to my liking. I'm 185lbs running 35psi main and 75psi irt. 1 click of lsc, 2 clicks of hsc and 6 clicks of rebound, all from open. Works like magic. Matches the rear coil for plushness, stays perfectly planted and erases chunky rock sections. ****ing thrilled.

    Opened the air spring up to check how greased the pistons and seals were. There was no grease on the seals but the foam rings were oiled just fine. Both the irt and main air piston were greased nicely. After greasing the seals and putting it all back together it is beyond smooth and plush. A major difference even though it felt great out of the box as well.

  146. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by skulltractor View Post
    So i've ridden the fork 6 times now, and finally have the settings dialed to my liking. I'm 185lbs running 35psi main and 75psi irt. 1 click of lsc, 2 clicks of hsc and 6 clicks of rebound, all from open. Works like magic. Matches the rear coil for plushness, stays perfectly planted and erases chunky rock sections. ****ing thrilled.

    Opened the air spring up to check how greased the pistons and seals were. There was no grease on the seals but the foam rings were oiled just fine. Both the irt and main air piston were greased nicely. After greasing the seals and putting it all back together it is beyond smooth and plush. A major difference even though it felt great out of the box as well.
    looking at your pressure I guess you dont jump big features

  147. #547
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    anybody checked if rebound is preloaded?

  148. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    A lot of people over-complicate how to set adjusters. LSC/HSC is actually really simple. Start with LSC and if you have it fully closed and still want more than add HSC.
    OK, so this is the first fork I've had with a HSC adjustment. The above statement makes no sense to my understanding of how I thought the two circuits work. If LSC and HSC refer to the shaft speeds of the fork then why would you start adding HSC when you've closed LSC? How does HSC help with increasing LSC if it's supposed to operate at high shaft speed and not low shaft speed? If you've maxed out the LSC and need more wouldn't you go back and look at adding more air to the spring or revalving the LSC as a last resort?

    Also, another question. If having the HSC open helps with absorbing high speed square edge type hits, when would you want to add HSC? Why would you want to add/close HSC to firm/harden up the hits?
    Pole Evolink 140

  149. #549
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    So I went for my second ride on this fork. It was my first proper opportunity to spend time playing with the adjustments. On the day I was 167lbs in geared up.

    My trail was relatively flat and pedally with a few short punchy climbs and rooty / rocky descents with a few small 2' drops to flat.

    I started out with 40/50 which gave me 20% sag and found it very plush but was riding in the middle of the travel so increased IRT to 55 which improved things but was still a little deeper in the travel than I wanted.

    So far I settled on 40/56, HSC open, LSC 5 from closed, rebound 6 From closed. It felt pretty good but I think I can improve the tracking of the ground over the roots at high speed. It felt like the front wheel was skipping (being kicked up) over the roots rather than tracking over them. Also, I know when I go hit bigger features I'm going to have to adjust for that but I guess this is a decent starting point. My travel o-ring settled at around 35mm from the top.

    One thing this fork suddenly did highlight was that my rear was now not balanced and was feeling harsh so I need to look at that again.
    Pole Evolink 140

  150. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    OK, so this is the first fork I've had with a HSC adjustment. The above statement makes no sense to my understanding of how I thought the two circuits work. If LSC and HSC refer to the shaft speeds of the fork then why would you start adding HSC when you've closed LSC? How does HSC help with increasing LSC if it's supposed to operate at high shaft speed and not low shaft speed? If you've maxed out the LSC and need more wouldn't you go back and look at adding more air to the spring or revalving the LSC as a last resort?

    Also, another question. If having the HSC open helps with absorbing high speed square edge type hits, when would you want to add HSC? Why would you want to add/close HSC to firm/harden up the hits?
    HSC gives you LSC threshold, if you dont have enough HSC you wont be able to get any significant amount of LSC damping because HSC circuit will open too easily/early. If you add preload to shimstack/poppet valve it holds HS circuit closed for longer before pressure buildup in the damper opens it, thus allows more LSC damping till HS circuit takes over. Pretty simple I think.

  151. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    HSC gives you LSC threshold, if you dont have enough HSC you wont be able to get any significant amount of LSC damping because HSC circuit will open too easily/early. If you add preload to shimstack/poppet valve it holds HS circuit closed for longer before pressure buildup in the damper opens it, thus allows more LSC damping till HS circuit takes over. Pretty simple I think.
    Ah, now I get it. Makes sense now. Thanks.

    So in a way HSC increases the effective range/effect of the LSC. The more HSC you have the bigger range of shaft speed the LSC will have effect on.

    So in the above statement by Dougal, if you max out LSC and you begin to wind on HSC, I assume once you start to put on HSC you'd need to back out the LSC a little to prevent it from over shooting too much and having too much LSC damping.
    Pole Evolink 140

  152. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Ah, now I get it. Makes sense now. Thanks.

    So in a way HSC increases the effective range/effect of the LSC. The more HSC you have the bigger range of shaft speed the LSC will have effect on.

    So in the above statement by Dougal, if you max out LSC and you begin to wind on HSC, I assume once you start to put on HSC you'd need to back out the LSC a little to prevent it from over shooting too much and having too much LSC damping.
    You got it, whether you need to back out LSC depends on how much each click of HSC changes and if it could potentially become detrimental for square edged hits.

  153. #553
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    @nikon255 The main psi does seem low compared to what others here are running, but my bike has a lot of travel so the increased sag balances well with the rear shock. It ramps up a lot past the sag point though, so it doesnt blow through the travel even on bigger jumps or drops. I pretty much only ride Ucsc, so its not exactly a bike park, but i like to get rowdy and push the bike as hard as i can.

  154. #554
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    PSA---

    I am am sure that this has been covered or is intuitive to many, but here is no need to equalize the main and negative chambers when setting your main pressure. the person balancing my bike gave the fork a push when i had the main at my desired setting AND the pump attached to the lower leg. the fork abruptly bottomed out and then rebounded...high pressure pump gauge readout never changed.

    i hopped on the bike and headed for the lift and noticed that the fork stanchions seemed significantly short of the 180mm the fork was set at. I grabbed the bars and pushed down on the arch, and discovered that fork was sucked down 40-50mm.

    went to pits and checked main pressure, and all was normal. but the fork stayed sucked down in the stroke, which indicates an imbalance in the main/negative chamber pressure. i bled the main all the way to zero, re-pressurized, same issue. to sum it up, it seems that when the pump is hooked up, if any pressure is applied to the bars, then the main air will be forced into the negative chamber as the fork collapses through its travel. simply bleeding the main, does not release that excess that is now trapped in the negative.

    the fix (there may be others):

    attach the HP pump. depress the the bleed button on the pump. at the same time, have another person press on the arch and pull up on the bars to full extend the fork manually. this equalized (to the best i could tell) the main and the negative.

  155. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Ah, now I get it. Makes sense now. Thanks.

    So in a way HSC increases the effective range/effect of the LSC. The more HSC you have the bigger range of shaft speed the LSC will have effect on.

    So in the above statement by Dougal, if you max out LSC and you begin to wind on HSC, I assume once you start to put on HSC you'd need to back out the LSC a little to prevent it from over shooting too much and having too much LSC damping.
    Yes.

    For initial tuning bring in LSC until it's enough, if you run out of LSC then add HSC. Then revisit LSC for fine-tuning later to stop it feeling dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    PSA---

    I am am sure that this has been covered or is intuitive to many, but here is no need to equalize the main and negative chambers when setting your main pressure. the person balancing my bike gave the fork a push when i had the main at my desired setting AND the pump attached to the lower leg. the fork abruptly bottomed out and then rebounded...high pressure pump gauge readout never changed.

    i hopped on the bike and headed for the lift and noticed that the fork stanchions seemed significantly short of the 180mm the fork was set at. I grabbed the bars and pushed down on the arch, and discovered that fork was sucked down 40-50mm.

    went to pits and checked main pressure, and all was normal. but the fork stayed sucked down in the stroke, which indicates an imbalance in the main/negative chamber pressure. i bled the main all the way to zero, re-pressurized, same issue. to sum it up, it seems that when the pump is hooked up, if any pressure is applied to the bars, then the main air will be forced into the negative chamber as the fork collapses through its travel. simply bleeding the main, does not release that excess that is now trapped in the negative.

    the fix (there may be others):

    attach the HP pump. depress the the bleed button on the pump. at the same time, have another person press on the arch and pull up on the bars to full extend the fork manually. this equalized (to the best i could tell) the main and the negative.
    That's the hidden travel adjust feature. All you need to do is check the fork is pulled to full travel before removing the pump.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  156. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    PSA---

    I am am sure that this has been covered or is intuitive to many, but here is no need to equalize the main and negative chambers when setting your main pressure. the person balancing my bike gave the fork a push when i had the main at my desired setting AND the pump attached to the lower leg. the fork abruptly bottomed out and then rebounded...high pressure pump gauge readout never changed.

    i hopped on the bike and headed for the lift and noticed that the fork stanchions seemed significantly short of the 180mm the fork was set at. I grabbed the bars and pushed down on the arch, and discovered that fork was sucked down 40-50mm.

    went to pits and checked main pressure, and all was normal. but the fork stayed sucked down in the stroke, which indicates an imbalance in the main/negative chamber pressure. i bled the main all the way to zero, re-pressurized, same issue. to sum it up, it seems that when the pump is hooked up, if any pressure is applied to the bars, then the main air will be forced into the negative chamber as the fork collapses through its travel. simply bleeding the main, does not release that excess that is now trapped in the negative.

    the fix (there may be others):

    attach the HP pump. depress the the bleed button on the pump. at the same time, have another person press on the arch and pull up on the bars to full extend the fork manually. this equalized (to the best i could tell) the main and the negative.
    All you have to do is attach the pump a pull on the handlebars, pump is connecting pos/neg chamber and it will be equalised at any height you set it at by pulling/ pushing bars. And yes it wont read any differently, the overall air volume is not changing, just where the volume is (either in pos or neg chamber)

  157. #557
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    It appears that I'm having a problem with air bleeding between the IRT chamber and the air spring chamber.

    Here is what is happening:

    - Fill IRT to 92psi, Air spring to 66psi
    - Ride bike
    - Connect pump to air spring, pump reads 69-70psi, that WITH the air preload of the shock pump so actual pressure is higher.
    - IRT pressure has dropped ~10-12psi

    I would assume the seal(s) on the IRT assembly are defective and asked Manitou if they could just send me the parts, but they are telling me I have to sent the fork in... bummer.

  158. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    It appears that I'm having a problem with air bleeding between the IRT chamber and the air spring chamber.

    Here is what is happening:

    - Fill IRT to 92psi, Air spring to 66psi
    - Ride bike
    - Connect pump to air spring, pump reads 69-70psi, that WITH the air preload of the shock pump so actual pressure is higher.
    - IRT pressure has dropped ~10-12psi

    I would assume the seal(s) on the IRT assembly are defective and asked Manitou if they could just send me the parts, but they are telling me I have to sent the fork in... bummer.
    Serious bummer. Hope they get you sorted.

    Interested in the Mezzer, but potential migration of air amongst multiple chambers sensitive to small changes is disconcerting.

  159. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    It appears that I'm having a problem with air bleeding between the IRT chamber and the air spring chamber.

    Here is what is happening:

    - Fill IRT to 92psi, Air spring to 66psi
    - Ride bike
    - Connect pump to air spring, pump reads 69-70psi, that WITH the air preload of the shock pump so actual pressure is higher.
    - IRT pressure has dropped ~10-12psi

    I would assume the seal(s) on the IRT assembly are defective and asked Manitou if they could just send me the parts, but they are telling me I have to sent the fork in... bummer.
    Probably just need some grease

  160. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmxtrdr View Post
    Serious bummer. Hope they get you sorted.

    Interested in the Mezzer, but potential migration of air amongst multiple chambers sensitive to small changes is disconcerting.
    Mine has been consistent and I check it every so often, sounds like there is a bad seal somewhere.

  161. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmxtrdr View Post
    Serious bummer. Hope they get you sorted.

    Interested in the Mezzer, but potential migration of air amongst multiple chambers sensitive to small changes is disconcerting.
    I'd think Manitou have the IRT system design down pretty well by now so hopefully it's a fluke. I'm going to pull it out tonight and give it a thorough inspection before shipping my fork in.

    Still, another set of seals in a critical area is a consideration vs the simplicity of more traditional volume reducing tokens.

    I don't think I've yet experienced this fork at it's actual potential.

    On the bright side, it does look great now that I've removed all stickers except the vertical "Manitou" on the front.. much better.

  162. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    Probably just need some grease
    Hoping it's something like that, pulling it tonight to check it out.

    I greased the outer seal a little while ago but forgot to grease the shaft/inner seal at that time.. it could be bone dry.

  163. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Hoping it's something like that, pulling it tonight to check it out.

    I greased the outer seal a little while ago but forgot to grease the shaft/inner seal at that time.. it could be bone dry.
    If it's dry it may have worn the o-ring already. I think it's a -110 size.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  164. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Hoping it's something like that, pulling it tonight to check it out.

    I greased the outer seal a little while ago but forgot to grease the shaft/inner seal at that time.. it could be bone dry.
    Its been a all to common problem that the factory doesn't grease the shaft on IRT assemblies since they first started including IRT stock on Mattocs. Im not sure why the factory can't get this corrected, I know its been pointed out multiple times to them.

    If that is what happened to your fork, its just a easy o-ring change.

  165. #565
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    anybody had a chance to compare the mezzer with a diaz runted lyrik /36

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    I will be able to compare it to a runt Lyrik with FAST Damper kit. But it will take a few weeks. I do not have much time in the moment and it is raining cats and dogs for a few days already. Especially as both forks have to be setup correctly with the 2 air pressures

  167. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Its been a all to common problem that the factory doesn't grease the shaft on IRT assemblies since they first started including IRT stock on Mattocs. Im not sure why the factory can't get this corrected, I know its been pointed out multiple times to them.

    If that is what happened to your fork, its just a easy o-ring change.
    They also don't write to grease it on aftermarket IRT instruction manual, i had the luck to read it here.
    They just say to put grease on the piston oring.

  168. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    If it's dry it may have worn the o-ring already. I think it's a -110 size.
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Its been a all to common problem that the factory doesn't grease the shaft on IRT assemblies since they first started including IRT stock on Mattocs. Im not sure why the factory can't get this corrected, I know its been pointed out multiple times to them.

    If that is what happened to your fork, its just a easy o-ring change.
    I pulled it apart last night, and yes the IRT shaft and o-ring were squeaky dry. I'll change out the o-rings, properly lube and hope that fixes the problem.

    O-Ring sizes appear to be:
    Outer: -122
    Inner: -110

    Another possible leak point would be the seal at the shaft bolt but this seems less likely. FYI.. if you are going to disassemble the IRT to replace the inner seal I recommend using a set of 10mm shaft clamps in your vise as the end bolt on mine was loctited and pretty tight.

  169. #569
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    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  170. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I guess Dougal's advice would've been lower the main chamber pressure back a bit again and close down the HSC/LSC more?
    Last edited by CS645; 10-09-2019 at 06:52 AM.

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    The result is really not really good.
    I think, we all expected ot to trump the lyrik ultimate or grip2. How does it come?

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    Must have come because they may have used the same internals and the same factory as with the Mattoc.

    My Mattoc also did not like stutterbumps and the bushings rattled like hell.

    My old 2018 Lyrik RC is really good at that though - no rattling, no insecure feel, just sucks them up.

    Soooo....no Mezzer. Wait for the Fox 38 ?

  173. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    The result is really not really good.
    I think, we all expected ot to trump the lyrik ultimate or grip2. How does it come?
    shrug. I've used multiple new lyriks and 36 grip 2... they feel really different to me. It's weird seeing them grouped together as some sort of uniform standard for excellence. I would expect people to prefer one over the other, and the mezzer to fall somewhere between.


    I don't have enough miles on my mezzer yet to have an opinion. I've only used the factory suggested tune. But it feels like a premium fork to me.
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  174. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    shrug. I've used multiple new lyriks and 36 grip 2... they feel really different to me. It's weird seeing them grouped together as some sort of uniform standard for excellence. I would expect people to prefer one over the other, and the mezzer to fall somewhere between.


    I don't have enough miles on my mezzer yet to have an opinion. I've only used the factory suggested tune. But it feels like a premium fork to me.
    In fact lyrik and Fox 36 are very different in many aspects, i would expect a better comparison and a more detailed review. They didn't even say what model of lyrik was used for comparison, i guess 2.1? Seems like they needed to put this review out in hurry, uh

    Bushing play has no excuses though, especially on a test fork it's ridiculous.

    Dry IRT is not acceptable as well, i hope they don't **** up the launch of their main product for these stupid production issues, that would be crazy.
    I still love my mezzer and i really wish success for Manitou, but you can't compete with rock fox if you **** up the basics.
    They need to improve QC asap because is the first impression that counts, in our world.

  175. #575
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    I've been noticing bushing play in my Mezzer too. If I hold the front brake on like I'm checking the headset for play I can feel the forks knocking back and forth in the bushings. Anyone else notice this?

  176. #576
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    Sounds like a great design ruined by sloppy assembly.

    Simple solution, buy them from Dougal and get him to check it first.

    That was the plan I was considering but getting my Dorado Dougaluzed instead.

    The 15mm axle killed it for me!

  177. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant View Post
    Sounds like a great design ruined by sloppy assembly.

    Simple solution, buy them from Dougal and get him to check it first.

    That was the plan I was considering but getting my Dorado Dougaluzed instead.

    The 15mm axle killed it for me!
    Greasing is a 10 minute operation. Mine had ok oil volume, no grease on seals, no grease on IRT.
    But the mattoc had the same mistakes so i obviously checked it

  178. #578
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    The bushing slop is an issue, but it goes away when the fork is compressed into the lowers slightly, so you shouldn't notice it during normal riding unless you ride the fork at 100% extension. It definitely doesn't rattle around.

    I found the GRIP2 to be less compliant and not track as well as the Mezzer, but I haven't ridden a Lyrik yet.

    Similar to how Fox and RS shouldn't be the gold standard of fork comparisons, Pinkbike isn't the gold standard for reviews, either. The quantity of bikes and components that two or three guys review on a regular basis leads me to believe they likely spend very little time on them compared to others (e.g. Vital, NSMB), because my experiences with most products pretty often contradict theirs.

  179. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    The bushing slop is an issue, but it goes away when the fork is compressed into the lowers slightly, so you shouldn't notice it during normal riding unless you ride the fork at 100% extension. It definitely doesn't rattle around.

    I found the GRIP2 to be less compliant and not track as well as the Mezzer, but I haven't ridden a Lyrik yet.

    Similar to how Fox and RS shouldn't be the gold standard of fork comparisons, Pinkbike isn't the gold standard for reviews, either. The quantity of bikes and components that two or three guys review on a regular basis leads me to believe they likely spend very little time on them compared to others (e.g. Vital, NSMB), because my experiences with most products pretty often contradict theirs.
    Agree with everything.

    The slop is only noticeable so far when I have no weight on the bike and not on the trail. It's still the best standard fork I've ridden so far.

  180. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    The result is really not really good.
    I think, we all expected ot to trump the lyrik ultimate or grip2. How does it come?
    This is Pinkbike, where the reviewers said a Motion Control RS fork is almost as good as a Fox with a Grip 2 damper.
    Let's just say I don't take them all that seriously on product reviews.

  181. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    This is Pinkbike, where the reviewers said a Motion Control RS fork is almost as good as a Fox with a Grip 2 damper.
    Let's just say I don't take them all that seriously on product reviews.
    Hahaha!
    PinkBike's motto is "We are better than BikeRumor....but not by much"

  182. #582
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    If you want a serious review, where it appears they did more than 2 days with the fork, I'd wait for Vital or NSMB to post one. I know the latter is working on a review now.

  183. #583
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    Is there a video on how to go about lubing up the internals?

  184. #584
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    Yeah I am with everyone else that I really don't put any salt into PB's reviews. They seem overly trivialized and "sponsored" to say certain things. Rarely see them as "honest" type reviews. Plus they almost always seem to go with whatever is the "hot" industry standard for racers that year (e.g. Loic Bruni winning certain races on XYZ product). Mind you there are always the chances to get a bad product by chance. I always wonder what has been done by the mfg. to make this a better product since the group/mag did not necessarily purchase themselves. So, those groups that seem to constantly have glowing reviews for the big names, I always look at with a very questioning eye.

  185. #585
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    Mike Kazimer from the PB comment section:
    @kmg0 and @shinook, I contacted Manitou to let them know what I was experiencing in regards to the bushing play, but they didn't offer up a solution or a response to include in the review. I'll update the article if that changes.
    That's not too handy....

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  187. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post

    That's one seems to be more in line with the general user consensus.

  188. #588
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    LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.

    Not to mention the fact that my comment has apparently been deleted as I cannot find it to comment back. How does the old saying go "The devil is in the details." Is that right? Maybe the writer being a bit more forthcoming about stuff like that, or maybe that was a bold faced lie, hence why my comment and his was deleted?

    Review: Can Manitou's Mezzer Pro Fork Compete With the Best?
    quotes @gregnash, I put in months of riding on this fork, and performed the back to back testing in the bike park on more than one occasion in order to confirm my thoughts. I take testing seriously, and put lots of hours and miles of ride time on every product before anything gets published. As for your Lyrik, I'm not sure what could be causing those issues. Have you tried the old zip tie behind the dust wiper trick? Sometimes that can improve the ride feel, especially if you've been doing a bunch of DH runs with bigger elevation changes. But it should never feel like a fully rigid fork - something isn't right there.

  189. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.

    Not to mention the fact that my comment has apparently been deleted as I cannot find it to comment back. How does the old saying go "The devil is in the details." Is that right? Maybe the writer being a bit more forthcoming about stuff like that, or maybe that was a bold faced lie, hence why my comment and his was deleted?

    Review: Can Manitou's Mezzer Pro Fork Compete With the Best?
    quotes @gregnash, I put in months of riding on this fork, and performed the back to back testing in the bike park on more than one occasion in order to confirm my thoughts. I take testing seriously, and put lots of hours and miles of ride time on every product before anything gets published. As for your Lyrik, I'm not sure what could be causing those issues. Have you tried the old zip tie behind the dust wiper trick? Sometimes that can improve the ride feel, especially if you've been doing a bunch of DH runs with bigger elevation changes. But it should never feel like a fully rigid fork - something isn't right there.
    Comments generally don't get deleted. They get downvoted by the Pinkbike population and then get hidden.

    They definitely test for more than one day and few runs. Not sure what issues you're having with your RC2, but mine feels nothing like what you described and I know many other people that aren't having those issues.

  190. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.

    Not to mention the fact that my comment has apparently been deleted as I cannot find it to comment back. How does the old saying go "The devil is in the details." Is that right? Maybe the writer being a bit more forthcoming about stuff like that, or maybe that was a bold faced lie, hence why my comment and his was deleted?

    Review: Can Manitou's Mezzer Pro Fork Compete With the Best?
    quotes @gregnash, I put in months of riding on this fork, and performed the back to back testing in the bike park on more than one occasion in order to confirm my thoughts. I take testing seriously, and put lots of hours and miles of ride time on every product before anything gets published. As for your Lyrik, I'm not sure what could be causing those issues. Have you tried the old zip tie behind the dust wiper trick? Sometimes that can improve the ride feel, especially if you've been doing a bunch of DH runs with bigger elevation changes. But it should never feel like a fully rigid fork - something isn't right there.
    At the bottom click on below threshold. People can up and down vote comment (good and ill advised). You'll see your comment there.

    I think it would've been smarter of them to explain some things in the review that they've now put in the comment section.

  191. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    LOL... so I commented about taking the PB "review" with a grain of salt. Apparently got a couple replies, one of which was from the writer telling me how he takes his product testing very seriously and put months of riding on the fork. Yet, that was never mentioned in the review, not even hinted at.
    This was in the PB review...

    "With the Mezzer, I chose to pit it against a 160mm RockShox Lyrik RC2 after I'd put in plenty of ride time on my home trails to find my base settings."

    I'd say that is hinting that he rode it for a bit before the head to head test.

  192. #592
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    I found a US distributor for Motorex Supergliss 68K.

    They only sell 5 liter jugs though.
    I don't need that much.
    Does anyone want to buy some from me if I do it?
    I'll bottle it up in 0.5 or 1 liters sizes and ship in the US.
    $34 for 1 liter, $24 for 0.5 liter shipping included should cover all of the costs.

  193. #593
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    I think that big companies, RS and Fox put a lot of money into advertising. What happened if the smaller company without budget like the above, get the hard hitting test??? Just asking...

  194. #594
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    I've been emailing with Manitou tech support regarding my issues with IRT pressure migration and lack of factory lubrication.

    They are aware of the issues and are dealing with it at the factory, but he also mentioned this regarding the dust seals:

    "As for the main seals, I share your concern. Two things- SKF is actually adamant that the seals not be greased, but they are meant to be lubed with the same semi-bath oil as found in the lowers and I have seen a couple initial run forks in addition to yours that were not lubed."

    Just FYI

  195. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    This was in the PB review...

    "With the Mezzer, I chose to pit it against a 160mm RockShox Lyrik RC2 after I'd put in plenty of ride time on my home trails to find my base settings."

    I'd say that is hinting that he rode it for a bit before the head to head test.
    You're right, I did read that. But the thing is, can you quantify "a bit" of ride time?
    I approach explanative, or detail oriented, writing as though the person reading it has no indication of what something vague like that means. If you were about to jump out of an airplane with someone and asked them how much training/practice they had and their response was "a bit" would you feel safe?

    While that is my own personal thing, and I feel that PB is very RS/FOX oriented in all their reviews, why would I take such a comment, however brief and buried in "a review" as more than "I threw it on the bike and did a few laps, probably less than 20 miles, on my home trails and thought... Meh, that's good enough."

  196. #596
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    And thanks for the info on clicking the below threshold link, that did it and showed me they did not delete the comment.

    I thought I remembered that you could click on the link from the dashboard and it USED to take you directly to the comment/responses. Could be wrong or that could have been a higher comment/response post.

  197. #597
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    Hey look, a review from a website that actually took the time to properly set up the fork. Imagine that.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/co...o-fork-review/

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    Mullen119 and Dougal

    What's your thoughts on the bushing play? I have two Mezzers, one at 160 and the other at 150 travel, and the slop is definitely more in the longer travel but it is in both. It doesn't seem to effect the operation on the fork on the trail but my concern is that if opens up further through use will it cause any excessive wear on any other part like the stanchions? Do I need to get the forks to a shop to get the bushing resized and do you think this is a warranty job?

  199. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Mullen119 and Dougal

    What's your thoughts on the bushing play? I have two Mezzers, one at 160 and the other at 150 travel, and the slop is definitely more in the longer travel but it is in both. It doesn't seem to effect the operation on the fork on the trail but my concern is that if opens up further through use will it cause any excessive wear on any other part like the stanchions? Do I need to get the forks to a shop to get the bushing resized and do you think this is a warranty job?
    Ride it for now. More details coming very soon

  200. #600
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    Starting to think kazimer and (most of) the crew there are clowns with limited technical knowledge that kowtow to sram, spesh, and a few other big companies.

    not news to many, but sad.

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