Manitou Mezzer - Page 2- Mtbr.com
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 201 to 400 of 802

Thread: Manitou Mezzer

  1. #201
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    And what does your 6000+ metres descent review bring to the table? Detailed reports please :-)
    5400 metres actually, rain stopped me
    I did a mix of flow with jumps and long, rocky descents at high speed, lots of square edge hits.

    I can pretty much confirm my first impressions:
    - i find the pressure table not ideal, suggested pressures are way too low for me, i have found my ideal pressures 10psi higher for both main and IRT, 60/90 psi for my 80 kg.
    - the fork is extremely comfortable on square edge hits, it filters out a lot but you can still feel what is happening under the wheel (5 lsc and 1 hsc from open), it's significantly better than the very good mattoc with high flow piston.
    - large hits are managed very well, it seems more progressive than the mattoc, on the mattoc i had to run IRT 2x (or more) the main pressure if had to do jumps/drops, on the mezzer 1.5 is perfect.
    - it doesn't flex at all, i tried a pike back to back on the same descent and the difference is huge, i recall the pike is similar to the mattoc.
    - it rides higher than the mattoc, not as high as my DVO diamond on berms and braking but close. I didn't play much with compression knobs, i probably could make it even better with more compression.


    I didn't try the fork with the original oil, i put supergliss 100k after the travel change.

    I made this short, horrible video. Had a lot of vibration because of a shitty camera mount, hope you can see something useful

    https://youtu.be/eBgVtR5ROLM

  2. #202
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Darn, that sounds very good. I have a yari 29 with awk and novyparts compression unit and a 650b metric with custom made Airspring and reworked hlr cartridge .... Really would like to compare those. I fear, one of them would have to go :-D

  3. #203
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    I think the HBO is fixed on the Mezzer so that might impact the progressive feeling.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    There is a fixed HBO circuit in the Mezzer, but the IRT chamber volume is reduced compared to the Mattoc. That is the main cause of the added progression when comparing the two.

  5. #205
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    There is a fixed HBO circuit in the Mezzer, but the IRT chamber volume is reduced compared to the Mattoc. That is the main cause of the added progression when comparing the two.
    That is interesting. Does this mean you can use less pressure in the new IRT?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  6. #206
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    That is interesting. Does this mean you can use less pressure in the new IRT?
    Since the IRT's spring rate ramps up faster, pressures tend to be a little lower (smaller pressure gap between the two)

  7. #207
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Are Some other Mezzer rocking the trails here? How are your experiences and recommendations?

  8. #208
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    A-C is fairly standardized, tires and wheels being the same across all forks, so 555mm for a 160mm travel 27.5, add 10mm to the A-C for a 29Ē fork.

    Thereís s few odd forks out there...

    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    I was hoping mezzer will be lower, but its a2c is same as mattoc which looks like 180mm travel fork
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  9. #209
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    A-C is fairly standardized, tires and wheels being the same across all forks, so 555mm for a 160mm travel 27.5, add 10mm to the A-C for a 29Ē fork.

    Thereís s few odd forks out there...
    Should be 20mm longer for the 29" version. 27 has a 23" rim, 29 has a 24.5" rim. 1.5" diameter, 3/4" radius difference.

    The days have passed when some companies made ridiculously long forks for no good reason.
    Now all forks to fit 29x2.6" etc will be within a few mm of each other for the same travel. It gets a bit murky with plus sized and fat forks still.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  10. #210
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elsinore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    587
    Just received my 44 mm offset 29 Mezzer and need to change the Travel. Anyone know if the process is similar to the Mattoc? I can find any tech docs for the travel change procedure.
    Thanks

  11. #211
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    Just received my 44 mm offset 29 Mezzer and need to change the Travel. Anyone know if the process is similar to the Mattoc? I can find any tech docs for the travel change procedure.
    Thanks
    Identical procedure. 20ml of bath oil in each leg, the only difference is the lowers are not threaded, you have nuts instead.

  12. #212
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elsinore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    587
    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    Identical procedure. 20ml of bath oil in each leg, the only difference is the lowers are not threaded, you have nuts instead.
    Perfect, thank you!

  13. #213
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    44
    How does ithe ride compare to a fox factory 36? I want to put it on a Levo and the stiffness and 37 mm stanchions suggest it would be supportive of a 40+ lb bike

  14. #214
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    How does ithe ride compare to a fox factory 36? I want to put it on a Levo and the stiffness and 37 mm stanchions suggest it would be supportive of a 40+ lb bike
    if you weight 150lb 40lb bike doesnīt really matter. There are e-bike specific 36 forks too which have thicker stanchions. But itīs not only about stiffness, I believe manitou airspring and damper are both better than fox.

  15. #215
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    How does ithe ride compare to a fox factory 36? I want to put it on a Levo and the stiffness and 37 mm stanchions suggest it would be supportive of a 40+ lb bike
    Which fox36? Fit4 is garbage compared to the mezzer (and to the mattoc pro as well), can't compare the grip2 because i haven't tried it yet.

  16. #216
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    if you weight 150lb 40lb bike doesnīt really matter. There are e-bike specific 36 forks too which have thicker stanchions. But itīs not only about stiffness, I believe manitou airspring and damper are both better than fox.
    The Mezzer also e-bke certified.

  17. #217
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    The Mezzer also e-bke certified.
    Even the 30mm Manitou Markhor is 150kg E-bike and Cargo Bike certified.

    It's weird that some brands have to beef up their normal offerings!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  18. #218
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Even the 30mm Manitou Markhor is 150kg E-bike and Cargo Bike certified.

    It's weird that some brands have to beef up their normal offerings!
    Especially when itīs supposedly enduro fork... Oh well.

  19. #219
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    410
    On a side note; no thread on the Mara?

  20. #220
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    So I've got two rides on mine. I'm coming from a Helm, but in the last 2 years I've also had a SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon Air, Fox 34 FIT4, and Cane Creek Helm Air. I may or may not have a suspension ADD problem, although I find forks with a good balance of support, smoothness, and adjustment are hard to find. I also have ulnar neuropathy in my left hand, which means bike setup for me is a careful balance.

    I've run it in three configurations as a 220lb rider, riding a lot of natural, steep-ish terrain:

    1. Recommended: 73 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~25% sag)
    2. Adjustment A: 78 main, 115 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~20% sag)
    3. Adjustment B: 78 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (Didn't check sag)

    The recommended setting tracked well and was supple, but it tended to dive a little bit in corners and got a little squirrely at speed. I'm coming directly from my Helm, which is a super supportive fork, so part of that is probably just riding something less damped and getting used to it, but I think it was still too soft for my weight or the way I ride. I generally run it a bit on the firmer side, anyway.

    I increased the main and IRT pressures and it felt good, but it felt like it was spiking a bit, which I attributed to the transition between the main compressing and the IRT starting to compress. I dropped 10psi out of the IRT and it seemed to smooth out a fair bit, although I think I'll add some LSC to help in corners and with braking, but that felt pretty close for now. I may also drop a few psi out of my main, maybe take it to 75 and closer to 22% sag.

    Riding the recommended settings, I hit the HBO a bit and it is a very interesting feeling. I like it a lot, but it's kindof disorienting when you are used to your fork yanking you forward when it hits that end ramp up point. I think I hit it a few times on my first ride using the recommended settings and it was super nice.

    Overall, the fork feels great. It tracks better than my Helm did, even when it was spiking a bit. It feels really smooth, the adjustments seem to have a pretty noticeable impact. The only thing I wish was different was the LSR adjuster, I'd prefer more granular adjustments, but that is kindof a nitpick and it feels really good for now. My rides have mostly been on the shorter side, too, so hopefully I'll get some others on bigger terrain. I may back it off slightly, because it does feel a bit on the firm side, but just barely. I may also try the recommended settings, but add 4-5 clicks of LSC.

  21. #221
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    So I've got two rides on mine. I'm coming from a Helm, but in the last 2 years I've also had a SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon Air, Fox 34 FIT4, and Cane Creek Helm Air. I may or may not have a suspension ADD problem, although I find forks with a good balance of support, smoothness, and adjustment are hard to find. I also have ulnar neuropathy in my left hand, which means bike setup for me is a careful balance.

    I've run it in three configurations as a 220lb rider, riding a lot of natural, steep-ish terrain:

    1. Recommended: 73 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~25% sag)
    2. Adjustment A: 78 main, 115 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~20% sag)
    3. Adjustment B: 78 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (Didn't check sag)

    The recommended setting tracked well and was supple, but it tended to dive a little bit in corners and got a little squirrely at speed. I'm coming directly from my Helm, which is a super supportive fork, so part of that is probably just riding something less damped and getting used to it, but I think it was still too soft for my weight or the way I ride. I generally run it a bit on the firmer side, anyway.

    I increased the main and IRT pressures and it felt good, but it felt like it was spiking a bit, which I attributed to the transition between the main compressing and the IRT starting to compress. I dropped 10psi out of the IRT and it seemed to smooth out a fair bit, although I think I'll add some LSC to help in corners and with braking, but that felt pretty close for now. I may also drop a few psi out of my main, maybe take it to 75 and closer to 22% sag.

    Riding the recommended settings, I hit the HBO a bit and it is a very interesting feeling. I like it a lot, but it's kindof disorienting when you are used to your fork yanking you forward when it hits that end ramp up point. I think I hit it a few times on my first ride using the recommended settings and it was super nice.

    Overall, the fork feels great. It tracks better than my Helm did, even when it was spiking a bit. It feels really smooth, the adjustments seem to have a pretty noticeable impact. The only thing I wish was different was the LSR adjuster, I'd prefer more granular adjustments, but that is kindof a nitpick and it feels really good for now. My rides have mostly been on the shorter side, too, so hopefully I'll get some others on bigger terrain. I may back it off slightly, because it does feel a bit on the firm side, but just barely. I may also try the recommended settings, but add 4-5 clicks of LSC.
    One thing to remember with any recommended air pressures is that a shock pumps accuracy varies greatly. I have 3 analog and 2 digital pumps and between them, there is about a 15psi range in readings.the digital pumps are pretty similar with roughly a 3psi difference between them. The analog pumps are the ones that differ significantly.

  22. #222
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    So I've got two rides on mine. I'm coming from a Helm, but in the last 2 years I've also had a SR Suntour Auron PCS RC2, DVO Sapphire 34 D1, MRP Ribbon Air, Fox 34 FIT4, and Cane Creek Helm Air. I may or may not have a suspension ADD problem, although I find forks with a good balance of support, smoothness, and adjustment are hard to find. I also have ulnar neuropathy in my left hand, which means bike setup for me is a careful balance.

    I've run it in three configurations as a 220lb rider, riding a lot of natural, steep-ish terrain:

    1. Recommended: 73 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~25% sag)
    2. Adjustment A: 78 main, 115 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (~20% sag)
    3. Adjustment B: 78 main, 105 IRT, 3 rebound, full open LSC/HSC (Didn't check sag)

    The recommended setting tracked well and was supple, but it tended to dive a little bit in corners and got a little squirrely at speed. I'm coming directly from my Helm, which is a super supportive fork, so part of that is probably just riding something less damped and getting used to it, but I think it was still too soft for my weight or the way I ride. I generally run it a bit on the firmer side, anyway.

    I increased the main and IRT pressures and it felt good, but it felt like it was spiking a bit, which I attributed to the transition between the main compressing and the IRT starting to compress. I dropped 10psi out of the IRT and it seemed to smooth out a fair bit, although I think I'll add some LSC to help in corners and with braking, but that felt pretty close for now. I may also drop a few psi out of my main, maybe take it to 75 and closer to 22% sag.

    Riding the recommended settings, I hit the HBO a bit and it is a very interesting feeling. I like it a lot, but it's kindof disorienting when you are used to your fork yanking you forward when it hits that end ramp up point. I think I hit it a few times on my first ride using the recommended settings and it was super nice.

    Overall, the fork feels great. It tracks better than my Helm did, even when it was spiking a bit. It feels really smooth, the adjustments seem to have a pretty noticeable impact. The only thing I wish was different was the LSR adjuster, I'd prefer more granular adjustments, but that is kindof a nitpick and it feels really good for now. My rides have mostly been on the shorter side, too, so hopefully I'll get some others on bigger terrain. I may back it off slightly, because it does feel a bit on the firm side, but just barely. I may also try the recommended settings, but add 4-5 clicks of LSC.


    Thanks for the review.

    If you are say this fork is feeling soft and "less damped", but you've got the LSC and HSC fully open... am I missing something?

  23. #223
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,747
    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    On a side note; no thread on the Mara?
    There is one somewhere but last I heard they are still a month or two out with no solid ETA.

  24. #224
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    There is one somewhere but last I heard they are still a month or two out with no solid ETA.
    The first (albeit very small) production batch just arrived a few days ago. Mostly for OEM I believe, but you might see them pop up for sale shortly. Not to far out even if these don't see aftermarket sales

    There is a thread for it around here somewhere. Its an amazing shock

  25. #225
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    One thing to remember with any recommended air pressures is that a shock pumps accuracy varies greatly. I have 3 analog and 2 digital pumps and between them, there is about a 15psi range in readings.the digital pumps are pretty similar with roughly a 3psi difference between them. The analog pumps are the ones that differ significantly.
    For sure. I've been using a digital, but it appears with this fork even 3-5psi makes a difference, so a bit of variance on their end, a bit on mine, and it could have it settled in the travel more than it should be. They do recommend 20-25% on the tuning guide, the figure on the guide sat me right around 25%, as much as I can measure accurately and consistently, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Thanks for the review.

    If you are say this fork is feeling soft and "less damped", but you've got the LSC and HSC fully open... am I missing something?
    I meant in comparison to the Helm, which is fairly firm even with all of the adjusters opened up. I haven't really played with the adjusters that much, I've made some 2-3 click changes in the LSC adjuster, but I've been experimenting more with the IRT and main pressures for the time being, since that system is somewhat new to me and I want to keep the other variables the same. The adjusters seem to have good range and make fairly broad adjustments, from my brief push test.

    I also wasn't saying it was 'too soft', rather that it can be set up more compliant than some of the forks I've been on lately (mainly Helm and Ribbon), which are more firmly damped even wide open.

    You can make the fork fairly firm, if you want. I added a bit of compression and ran the IRT/main around 115psi(IRT)/78psi(main) and it felt very firm, similar to the Helm, where the fork wants to push into you a bit more and provide support. I'm running it a bit more compliant to ease pressure off my hands and help the bike track a little better, though, which was part of the reason for moving away from the Helm (which I liked a fair bit). I ran the Mezzer earlier today at 75psi/105psi with 2 clicks in the LSC adjuster and it felt really good, closer to where I'd want it anyway.

    I've been doing all of my "testing"/tuning on the same trail, which consists of some faster rooty sections, a few fast corners, wall rides, slow drops, and a narrow bit with some awkward lines, one in particular always seems to induce dive in incorrectly setup forks. The first run down, with the recommended settings, I was pretty regularly hitting that last 30-40mm of travel. It wasn't abrupt, it felt alright, but there were a few instances where it came out from under me, I think it also had to do with the bike geo being a bit more forward than I'm used to. I think if I had run my shock a bit lower, it probably would have balanced out fine. The second time around, I ran the highest setting I've tried (78/115) and it felt alright, but it was spiking a bit more than I'd like and felt closer to the Helm, so very supportive and responsive, but a bit more firm than I'd like. I backed off the IRT 10psi and it felt more compliant, but still a bit harsh, so I went down a few psi in the main and it felt like a really good balance. I tested all of those with the adjusters open and rebound at a set 3 clicks from closed.

    I think I have a good idea of the bounds on the spring now, so the next thing I'll work with is the damper settings. I'll probably do that some later this week, going back to the base recommended setting I was at and adding 5-6 clicks of LSC and 1-2 of HSC to see how it feels. I think some of that dive feel with it at 25% would have been mitigated by proper damper adjustments, but we'll see.

  26. #226
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    For sure. I've been using a digital, but it appears with this fork even 3-5psi makes a difference, so a bit of variance on their end, a bit on mine, and it could have it settled in the travel more than it should be. They do recommend 20-25% on the tuning guide, the figure on the guide sat me right around 25%, as much as I can measure accurately and consistently, anyway.



    I meant in comparison to the Helm, which is fairly firm even with all of the adjusters opened up. I haven't really played with the adjusters that much, I've made some 2-3 click changes in the LSC adjuster, but I've been experimenting more with the IRT and main pressures for the time being, since that system is somewhat new to me and I want to keep the other variables the same. The adjusters seem to have good range and make fairly broad adjustments, from my brief push test.

    I also wasn't saying it was 'too soft', rather that it can be set up more compliant than some of the forks I've been on lately (mainly Helm and Ribbon), which are more firmly damped even wide open.

    You can make the fork fairly firm, if you want. I added a bit of compression and ran the IRT/main around 115psi(IRT)/78psi(main) and it felt very firm, similar to the Helm, where the fork wants to push into you a bit more and provide support. I'm running it a bit more compliant to ease pressure off my hands and help the bike track a little better, though, which was part of the reason for moving away from the Helm (which I liked a fair bit). I ran the Mezzer earlier today at 75psi/105psi with 2 clicks in the LSC adjuster and it felt really good, closer to where I'd want it anyway.

    I've been doing all of my "testing"/tuning on the same trail, which consists of some faster rooty sections, a few fast corners, wall rides, slow drops, and a narrow bit with some awkward lines, one in particular always seems to induce dive in incorrectly setup forks. The first run down, with the recommended settings, I was pretty regularly hitting that last 30-40mm of travel. It wasn't abrupt, it felt alright, but there were a few instances where it came out from under me, I think it also had to do with the bike geo being a bit more forward than I'm used to. I think if I had run my shock a bit lower, it probably would have balanced out fine. The second time around, I ran the highest setting I've tried (78/115) and it felt alright, but it was spiking a bit more than I'd like and felt closer to the Helm, so very supportive and responsive, but a bit more firm than I'd like. I backed off the IRT 10psi and it felt more compliant, but still a bit harsh, so I went down a few psi in the main and it felt like a really good balance. I tested all of those with the adjusters open and rebound at a set 3 clicks from closed.

    I think I have a good idea of the bounds on the spring now, so the next thing I'll work with is the damper settings. I'll probably do that some later this week, going back to the base recommended setting I was at and adding 5-6 clicks of LSC and 1-2 of HSC to see how it feels. I think some of that dive feel with it at 25% would have been mitigated by proper damper adjustments, but we'll see.
    I find it works very well 5-7 psi more than recommended and using lsc doesn't make it uncomfortable. At the moment i am using 6 clicks from open without issues, 1 click hsc.

  27. #227
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    44
    @adodero
    Thank you for posting your experiences with the mezzer. On the Levo travel is 150. So I think the 180 of travel on the mezzer would significantly raise the front. Thatís why Iím thinking of a fox 160 mm. Also Iím mostly doing trails so Iíd prob stick w 51 offset since I am not doing dh. I like the ability large travel gives to deal with chunk ( large rocks and ruts that we have lots of here in the northeast) What bike geometry would the mezzer require?

  28. #228
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    @adodero
    Thank you for posting your experiences with the mezzer. On the Levo travel is 150. So I think the 180 of travel on the mezzer would significantly raise the front. Thatís why Iím thinking of a fox 160 mm. Also Iím mostly doing trails so Iíd prob stick w 51 offset since I am not doing dh. I like the ability large travel gives to deal with chunk ( large rocks and ruts that we have lots of here in the northeast) What bike geometry would the mezzer require?
    You can lower the mezzer travel to 140 mm...10mm increments, using the provided spacers.

    Offset has nothing to do with doing dh or not, you choose offset for bike handling characteristics. Although my experience as an amateur proves it's not that important, didn't feel big difference between 51mm and 46mm.

  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    @adodero
    Thank you for posting your experiences with the mezzer. On the Levo travel is 150. So I think the 180 of travel on the mezzer would significantly raise the front. Thatís why Iím thinking of a fox 160 mm. Also Iím mostly doing trails so Iíd prob stick w 51 offset since I am not doing dh. I like the ability large travel gives to deal with chunk ( large rocks and ruts that we have lots of here in the northeast) What bike geometry would the mezzer require?
    The Mezzer can fairly easily be adjusted down to 150 or 160 (range is 140-180), so you should be able to make it fit your Levo pretty easily. FWIW most forks can be travel adjusted, the mechanism just differs.

    As for geometry, it's a fairly standard axle to crown, so I wouldn't say it requires any specific geometry. If it's the feel you want, which it sounds like it is (e.g. comparing to the 36), then it should replace any current similar fork on the market just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I find it works very well 5-7 psi more than recommended and using lsc doesn't make it uncomfortable. At the moment i am using 6 clicks from open without issues, 1 click hsc.
    Thanks for the info, good to know I'm not the only one bumping it up a bit.

  30. #230
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    44
    Thank you both for your replies. Although I too am an amateur, I just ride and donít build bikes or do complex maintenance. Taking forks apart to remove spacers falls into that category for me. Iím sure Iíll have enough complexity just dealing with all of this forksí adjustments - the double inlet valve is another thing (the IRT fills from the same port as the main chamber apparently) - how can you be sure which chamber you are filling ?

    Although I enjoy the Levo Iím sure you young folks see it as an Ďadaptiveí bike. I miss the way I used to chuck my old stump jumper around (15 y ago) but I really like the way I can add a little help on those uphill slogs at the push of a button.

    I am 210 lbs in full gear and donít do jumps or downhill. My goal is to have a fork that can keep me on track as I go over big chunk. Currently the rockshox revelation dives quickly but then comes to a fast halt as it approaches the limit of its travel. What I am looking for in a fork is something that has a more linear deceleration. Is the mazzer overkill for my purpose? Is it Ďstifferí than a fox factory 36 (non ebike version?

  31. #231
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    Thank you both for your replies. Although I too am an amateur, I just ride and donít build bikes or do complex maintenance. Taking forks apart to remove spacers falls into that category for me. Iím sure Iíll have enough complexity just dealing with all of this forksí adjustments - the double inlet valve is another thing (the IRT fills from the same port as the main chamber apparently) - how can you be sure which chamber you are filling ?

    Although I enjoy the Levo Iím sure you young folks see it as an Ďadaptiveí bike. I miss the way I used to chuck my old stump jumper around (15 y ago) but I really like the way I can add a little help on those uphill slogs at the push of a button.

    I am 210 lbs in full gear and donít do jumps or downhill. My goal is to have a fork that can keep me on track as I go over big chunk. Currently the rockshox revelation dives quickly but then comes to a fast halt as it approaches the limit of its travel. What I am looking for in a fork is something that has a more linear deceleration. Is the mazzer overkill for my purpose? Is it Ďstifferí than a fox factory 36 (non ebike version?
    The travel change process could likely be done by your shop or you could probably call Hayes and ask them to do it for you, if you bought it from them. It's not a difficult procedure, but it does require a few tools you may not have if you don't do your own bike work. Any competent shop should be able to take care of it, though.

    The IRT and mains are filled through different valves. You have one at the bottom of the fork leg (main) and one at the top (IRT). Fill the IRT first, then the main. They have a chart on their site for recommended starting pressures, you are pretty close to me in weight, but you might also need to consider the weight of the bike itself. Your shop should be able to help you get sag set up, I'd look for 22% or so.

    It sounds like a complicated system, but it isn't that difficult to use and you dont' have to fiddle with it as much as I do on different rides. It'll probably feel better than your Revelation even if the setup isn't ideal, I'm a bit more peculiar in getting stuff set up because I'm heavier (220), I have nerve damage in my hands, and I ride a lot of steep, technical terrain, so it's a real careful balance of providing support while keeping the fork smooth to relieve pressure on my hand. If you aren't that peculiar, then you don't need to tweak it as much as I have been.

    I don't think it's overkill, the chassis is supposedly stiffer (feels stiff to me, I don't get the flex I do from other forks), and it'll definitely feel better than your Revelation. I haven't run a GRIP or GRIP2 36 yet, but I will add that the adjustments on the GRIP2 36 will be a bit more overwhelming if you don't like to tinker with suspension.

  32. #232
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    9
    Got my 180mm 27.5 37mm offset mezzer in a few days ago and had a good thrash on it in the bike park a couple days ago, in short, its pretty darn good.

    I did pull it apart on arrival to check that grease/oil was where it needed to be and to check that everything was tight, did find a few things:

    -foot nuts were finger tight... good thing i took it apart to look at it first!
    -airspring seal head was also finger tight
    -There was a sufficient amount of grease on the main air spring piston, but it was only on the top and bottom of the piston, and not the quad ring itself
    -the irt piston had no grease on the shaft but did have sufficient grease on the outer seal
    -clean, lots of bath oil, and the foam rings were nicely soaked


    Assembled again after applying some grease to seals as necessary and snugged up air spring seal head and footnuts. Set pressure to about 50 psi main, and around 80 psi irt at 145lbs rider weight. Ended up with the rebound on the slower side at 2 clicks from closed, mainly because the jade on the back of the bike has much to slow rebound, even with the clicker full open, and there was a very large imbalance between the front and back of the bike. Compression ended up at 6 clicks from closed of LSC and 3 clicks from closed of HSC

    I took it to SilverStar bike park, and proceded to do some trail raging to test. I have been riding my dh bike all year so hopping on the enduro bike always feels like its under gunned as I tend to ride it like my dh bike. So it gave me a good baseline for comparison for how the fork will perform for some good thrashing relative to the dh bike. (for reference sake the fork on the dh bike is a DVO emerald chassis which I converted to coil and have inserted the damper from a Bos idylle FCV with the FCV valve "deleted" and manitou evil genius 2 seals from a dorado, its basically a magic eraser)

    The fork was really good, even better than I was expecting. The shim stacks for compression and especially rebound appear to be quite light, but certainly quite well suited for my weight, especiallly compared to stock tunes on many of the other products out there. Brake bumps were mostly erased, there was some vibration to the hands, but much less so than the mattoc pro boost that was on the enduro bike before but more vibration than the dh bike which produces almost no vibration on any kind of bumps. Could have done to run the rebound clicker a few clicks more open here but the bike felt too imbalanced with the jade on the back to do so. Big hits and jumps were dealt with very nicely with no drama, very little harshness, no feeling of bottom out, even though full travel was used many times. Large holes and big roots were also smoothed very nicely with minimal harshness (still need to open that rebound clicker a few more clicks for no harshness but the bike felt way to imbalanced with the slow jade on the back to do that), the fork simply just "gets out of the way" while riding through chunky terrain. Certainly no problem riding bike park for a full day with this fork and the hands still felt great at the end of the day. The fork was very quiet, it just kind of dissappeared and did its thing without any fuss. As whole, the fork is very impressive, certainly the best single crown fork I've ever ridden.

    I have a different rear shock for the enduro bike on the way (the jade donsn't have a very tunable rebound setup without machining some new parts) the mezzer made the back feel so bad in comparison to the front, I think manitou pretty much nailed it with this fork. I will likely take the bike to the bike park again with the new shock and open up the rebound some more on the mezzer which should eliminate the smidge of harshness and vibration.

  33. #233
    Keep on Rockin...
    Reputation: Miker J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    6,157
    Anything special needed to change travel on this fork? I'm thinking about going 150mm on a 275 Mezzer.

  34. #234
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    9
    Same procedure as Mattoc, spacers on air shaft below the piston, the mezzer comes with a bag with a lot of spacers

  35. #235
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by naturaltalent View Post
    mainly because the jade on the back of the bike has much to slow rebound, even with the clicker full open
    I'm not sure what the deal is with the DVO shocks and their rebound damping, I'm considerably heavier than you (215-220) and I still found it too slow on the three shocks I've had of theirs. It made me feel like I was getting pulled off the back of the bike on some sections of trail and push/unweights felt really dead.

    A few of the other forks I've owned fell into the same category, though, where high speed rebounds were really dead feeling or too slow returning. The Topaz matched up well for them. I don't really get that sensation with the Mezzer, though, which is nice, it feels a lot more responsive, which is closer to the SR Suntour forks I've had and oddly enough, one DVO.

    I guess it's 'safer' to have it return slow than buck riders, but it makes the bike feel really poorly on natural terrain.

  36. #236
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by naturaltalent View Post
    Got my 180mm 27.5 37mm offset mezzer in a few days ago and had a good thrash on it in the bike park a couple days ago, in short, its pretty darn good.
    nice review. manitou marketing should send you a Mara shock to go with it!

  37. #237
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    My first batch of Mezzer just arrived. Test riding tomorrow.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  38. #238
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Fork is on and bolted up. 27" 180mm, 37mm offset (44mm is the other option).

    Took it apart to remove the travel spacer (was set to 170mm), these are very easy to work on, the lower leg nuts are much quicker and easier to line-up than the old threaded shafts.
    The damper cartridge is bristling with bleed ports.
    I got the feeling that a lot of features on this fork were dreamt up back in the early Mattoc days and it was only now they had the opportunity to fully implement them.

    Bounce tests give me:
    45psi main air spring, 80psi IRT.
    Rebound 6 from closed.
    LSC closed.
    HSC open.

    Feels just like an overgrown Mattoc so far. Is extremely smooth and free sliding out the box. We'll see how the riding goes. Damping feels very lively but the range I need is there right in the middle. HSC is a lot more subtle than Mattoc or Dorado as the preload spring is a lot softer.

    Just awaiting player #2 so we can bolt up a 29" Mezzer and go shuttling!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  39. #239
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    The Revelation is an old XC fork, 32mm stanchions, at 210# it is not enough fork, so pretty much anything will be better. Pike, Lyric, 36. Get something used and save some money.

    So you got the base model Levo? Iím surprised Specialized used a lighter weight fork than a Pike, thatís a heavy bike and most ebike riders tend to be on the bigger side.

    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    Thank you both for your replies. Although I too am an amateur, I just ride and donít build bikes or do complex maintenance. Taking forks apart to remove spacers falls into that category for me. Iím sure Iíll have enough complexity just dealing with all of this forksí adjustments - the double inlet valve is another thing (the IRT fills from the same port as the main chamber apparently) - how can you be sure which chamber you are filling ?

    Although I enjoy the Levo Iím sure you young folks see it as an Ďadaptiveí bike. I miss the way I used to chuck my old stump jumper around (15 y ago) but I really like the way I can add a little help on those uphill slogs at the push of a button.

    I am 210 lbs in full gear and donít do jumps or downhill. My goal is to have a fork that can keep me on track as I go over big chunk. Currently the rockshox revelation dives quickly but then comes to a fast halt as it approaches the limit of its travel. What I am looking for in a fork is something that has a more linear deceleration. Is the mazzer overkill for my purpose? Is it Ďstifferí than a fox factory 36 (non ebike version?
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  40. #240
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    959
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Revelation is an old XC fork, 32mm stanchions, at 210# it is not enough fork, so pretty much anything will be better. Pike, Lyric, 36. Get something used and save some money.

    So you got the base model Levo? Iím surprised Specialized used a lighter weight fork than a Pike, thatís a heavy bike and most ebike riders tend to be on the bigger side.
    The revelation is 35mm now, and uses the Pike chassis. I've worked on a few of them fitted to Levo's and they can be either Moco or the new Charger RC damper
    www.thesuspensionlab.nz
    Servicing in Rotorua, NZ/Vorsprung Elite Tuning Centre/DVO service centre/Insta @thesuspensionlab

  41. #241
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    The Revelation Charger RC is like a GRIP damper Fox 34 but with a better chassis. Good fork for the money. May actually be lighter than the Charger 2.1 equipped Ultimate.

    Speaking of lightness and short travel - how much weight does having all the travel reducers in the Mezzer add? As I understand it, they add a few grams each. For 140mm travel, you'd need...4?

    Would it be possible to cut down the air shaft in the Mezzer as well?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    As I understand it, they add a few grams each. For 140mm travel, you'd need...4?

    Would it be possible to cut down the air shaft in the Mezzer as well?
    Are you serious???

  43. #243
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    Every. Gram. Counts.

    Nah, Im not too serious, but just interested in the how the internals of these forks work compared to Fox and RS products. Part of the reason fox ditched the adjustable air springs was cutting weight and adding simplicity. Its impressive that Manitou had made a fork just as light while still retaining the ease of spacer reduced travel.

    EDIT: Base weight per this Bike Rumor article says 2032g at 180mm, and 2070g at 140mm, each travel reducer adding about 10g. Odd enough, the Lyrik and 36 both gain weight as they go up in travel, so a Lyrik at 140mm is a hair under 2000g due to less material in the air spring shaft, but by the time they are all at 170mm the Mezzer is lighter.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  44. #244
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    HSC is a lot more subtle than Mattoc or Dorado as the preload spring is a lot softer.

    Just awaiting player #2 so we can bolt up a 29" Mezzer and go shuttling!
    The HSC felt really good for me closed off. I usually expect forks with the HSC adjuster closed off to spike badly or feel really uncomfortable, but it wasn't the case at all. It was a noticeable difference and it kept the fork a bit higher, but it wasn't that harsh. It felt kindof like my Helm when the Helm was open entirely, possibly a little more compliant. Honestly, I prefer the way the fork feels with it on the firmer side, but it wrecks my hand.

    What's your take on the LSC adjustments? They seemed fairly subtle, as well, but I don't think I closed it off entirely to compare. I did some bracketing on the same trail segment and think I varied it between 3 (from closed) to 9.

  45. #245
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Every. Gram. Counts.

    Nah, Im not too serious, but just interested in the how the internals of these forks work compared to Fox and RS products. Part of the reason fox ditched the adjustable air springs was cutting weight and adding simplicity. Its impressive that Manitou had made a fork just as light while still retaining the ease of spacer reduced travel.

    EDIT: Base weight per this Bike Rumor article says 2032g at 180mm, and 2070g at 140mm, each travel reducer adding about 10g. Odd enough, the Lyrik and 36 both gain weight as they go up in travel, so a Lyrik at 140mm is a hair under 2000g due to less material in the air spring shaft, but by the time they are all at 170mm the Mezzer is lighter.
    2030g for the 29". 27" is supposed to be 2kg even. Mine was 2085g with mudguard and hose-clamp bolted on.

    Shortening the air-shaft will require additional spacers to put the air volumes back where you want them. So it's a lot of work to save a few grams.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  46. #246
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Test ride done and dusted: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1LdTyRHGRf/
    Quick notes:

    It's the smoothest new fork I've ever felt. No hint of stiction or binding.
    Air spring is more supple off the top than the Mattoc, due to the bigger air chamber. Terrain response is continuous. It's just always following the ground.
    Mid stroke is long and supportive.
    Not sure if I hit full travel, the travel check o-ring has been thrown up against the crown rather than just pushed by the wiper. So I hit something pretty hard. Will install a tighter one next time.
    Adjuster range is dead on. You can dial in from not enough to too much compression and rebound.

    Best stock fork I've ever ridden. Possibly only edged out by a tuned Dorado.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  47. #247
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    The HSC felt really good for me closed off. I usually expect forks with the HSC adjuster closed off to spike badly or feel really uncomfortable, but it wasn't the case at all. It was a noticeable difference and it kept the fork a bit higher, but it wasn't that harsh. It felt kindof like my Helm when the Helm was open entirely, possibly a little more compliant. Honestly, I prefer the way the fork feels with it on the firmer side, but it wrecks my hand.

    What's your take on the LSC adjustments? They seemed fairly subtle, as well, but I don't think I closed it off entirely to compare. I did some bracketing on the same trail segment and think I varied it between 3 (from closed) to 9.
    I always close LSC before adding HSC. My test runs yesterday I started with LSC closed and HSC open, tried HSC right up to full, it's not harsh but it's more damping than I needed or wanted for that trail. I went down to 2 clicks from closed on LSC.

    Overall just extremely happy with it. I've never before found a stock fork that could eat bumps like this or stay composed. Let alone both. It normally takes a custom tune to achieve.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  48. #248
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    Dougal, you're not afraid of coils - is the new IRT getting closer to coil performance?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  49. #249
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PurpleMtnSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,112
    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    Are you serious???


    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  50. #250
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    how to bleed mezzer damper? Any service manual yet?

  51. #251
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    Identical procedure. 20ml of bath oil in each leg, the only difference is the lowers are not threaded, you have nuts instead.
    Since I have never taken a fork apart, what tools do I need so I donít destroy mine. From what Iíve read online there are specific tools needed? Non chamfered sockets? Etc

  52. #252
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by bwana View Post
    Since I have never taken a fork apart, what tools do I need so I donít destroy mine. From what Iíve read online there are specific tools needed? Non chamfered sockets? Etc
    Mattoc tool kit and standard hex key

  53. #253
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I always close LSC before adding HSC. My test runs yesterday I started with LSC closed and HSC open, tried HSC right up to full, it's not harsh but it's more damping than I needed or wanted for that trail. I went down to 2 clicks from closed on LSC.

    Overall just extremely happy with it. I've never before found a stock fork that could eat bumps like this or stay composed. Let alone both. It normally takes a custom tune to achieve.
    Further feedback on the mezzer, now?

    And how does the Mara compare to the mcleod or some fox or rs shox?
    Sensitive, smoothness through the travel, supportive, repetitive hits, big hits, bottom out?

  54. #254
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Sourced a 160mm fork, 29er. Converted it to 180mm. Process is relatively easy.

    *lower air shaft/damper are threaded on w/ a 12mm nut...thin wall 8mm not needed.
    *had to sacrifice/modify a chainring tool fit over air shaft to unthread it from CSU
    *can be done w/o losing any bath oil.
    *removed 2 x 2 piece spacers (20mm total).
    *took about 20 minutes (not including modifying tool)
    *i have had several RS/Fox forks disassembled. the seals and dust wipers on the Mezzer seem to be considerably "looser." they easily popped over the stanchions. not sure this a useable data point, but it was an observation, at a minimum.

  55. #255
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kwapik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    377
    All I can find for sale are 180mm Mezzers. That's the way it works for me.

  56. #256
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    Ohhh, that makes sense, so itís to the Pike what the Yari is to the Lyric.

    Hmmm, then I tell the Kevi guy to keep the fork and get it tuned/upgraded.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    The revelation is 35mm now, and uses the Pike chassis. I've worked on a few of them fitted to Levo's and they can be either Moco or the new Charger RC damper
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  57. #257
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bigdrunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,307
    I am looking for a 29Ē 140mm travel fork for a ďlite-ishĒ upcoming trail bike build. Is there any reason I would want to buy a Mattoc over the Mezzer being that they look to weigh the same?

    I was initially looking at the Pike Ultimate but I am getting the sense that as usual with RS and Fox that you need to spend $200+ to fix before you even ride it. This coupled with the fact SRAM has made it tough to use 15-20% off coupon codes now which is BS.

    I was looking into DVO Saphires and Pikes until I stumbled across the Mattoc thread.

  58. #258
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    I am looking for a 29Ē 140mm travel fork for a ďlite-ishĒ upcoming trail bike build. Is there any reason I would want to buy a Mattoc over the Mezzer being that they look to weigh the same?

    I was initially looking at the Pike Ultimate but I am getting the sense that as usual with RS and Fox that you need to spend $200+ to fix before you even ride it. This coupled with the fact SRAM has made it tough to use 15-20% off coupon codes now which is BS.

    I was looking into DVO Saphires and Pikes until I stumbled across the Mattoc thread.
    On paper, the Mattoc is lighter and maybe cheaper. But if you look at some of the published weights, the Mattoc in 29" form is close to 2012 grams. The Mezzer looks to be 2030, which to me is negligible and worth the extra stiffness and flexibility.

    The Mattoc is cheaper. The Mezzer is new and in demand so the prices are high. The Mattoc is hard to find but I think will still be cheaper.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  59. #259
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bigdrunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,307
    Some of the German shops have great prices on Mattoc Pros. Weight is a wash. Price aside, the Mezzer seems like the way to go.

  60. #260
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    What bath oil weight do I need to use? Are there any specific brands to use or avoid?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    This coupled with the fact SRAM has made it tough to use 15-20% off coupon codes now which is BS.

    I was looking into DVO Saphires and Pikes until I stumbled across the Mattoc thread.
    SRAM has been like that for a while since they instituted MAP, I think Fox is going the same direction. I've seen more SRAM forks discounted than components, but even then, the discounts are kindof meh.

    The Sapphire 34 is a great fork, I really liked mine, but I'd take the Mezzer for the wider travel range. I also find the Mezzer more supportive without running a lot of air in the airspring, the Sapphire was a bit underdamped.

  61. #261
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Dougal, you're not afraid of coils - is the new IRT getting closer to coil performance?
    Yes. Three air chambers of the correct size can do the job of a coil spring. There is still a strong preference and market for coil springs, but the performance gains are not what they used to be.

    That said. Plenty of room inside for a Smashpot coil spring, but no need for the aftermarket HBO.

    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    how to bleed mezzer damper? Any service manual yet?
    Bleeding is super easy. The same M5 syringe fittings as a Hayes Radar, RS Reverb, X-lock remote etc. Hook it on with bleed port up, stroke it to suck the oil out the syringe and air bubbles back into the syringe.
    Remove the syringe, cap the port and see if you're happy with the bladder expansion/contraction.

    No service manual yet that I know of. But aside from knowing bath oil volume and oil type it's almost not needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Further feedback on the mezzer, now?

    And how does the Mara compare to the mcleod or some fox or rs shox?
    Sensitive, smoothness through the travel, supportive, repetitive hits, big hits, bottom out?
    I've been away since so no more riding time since the above report. But the mezzer does exactly what you expect. It's simply better than anything else out there in spring, damper and chassis.

    Mara is not ready yet. My one is a pre-production and changes are still being made. I want the bigger King-can to fit my frame and riding (not yet available in my size). But I'm still very happy with it.
    It is smooth and controlled with plenty of low speed compression and rebound control without being harsh or sluggish over faster chop and hard landings. It feels similar to a McLeod but has a lot more thermal mass so doesn't change rebound speed noticably as it heats and cools (we fix that on McLeod with a better oil spec).
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  62. #262
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    Great info about bleeding, as I have tons of those syringes with M5 thread

  63. #263
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes. Three air chambers of the correct size can do the job of a coil spring. There is still a strong preference and market for coil springs, but the performance gains are not what they used to be.

    That said. Plenty of room inside for a Smashpot coil spring, but no need for the aftermarket HBO.



    Bleeding is super easy. The same M5 syringe fittings as a Hayes Radar, RS Reverb, X-lock remote etc. Hook it on with bleed port up, stroke it to suck the oil out the syringe and air bubbles back into the syringe.
    Remove the syringe, cap the port and see if you're happy with the bladder expansion/contraction.

    No service manual yet that I know of. But aside from knowing bath oil volume and oil type it's almost not needed.

    ?

    I've been away since so no more riding time since the above report. But the mezzer does exactly what you expect. It's simply better than anything else out there in spring, damper and chassis.

    Mara is not ready yet. My one is a pre-production and changes are still being made. I want the bigger King-can to fit my frame and riding (not yet available in my size). But I'm still very happy with it.
    It is smooth and controlled with plenty of low speed compression and rebound control without being harsh or sluggish over faster chop and hard landings. It feels similar to a McLeod but has a lot more thermal mass so doesn't change rebound speed noticably as it heats and cools (we fix that on McLeod with a better oil spec).

    Thanks. Other advantages over the mcleod from performance perspective, smoother of the top and through the stroke?

  64. #264
    Hitching a ride
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    3,187
    Banner ad on Pinkbike. Oder now. Come on Manitou, get it together


  65. #265
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Banner ad on Pinkbike. Oder now. Come on Manitou, get it together

    Yeah, but I did not even realize that was an add for the Mezzer till you said it!
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  66. #266
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    You can order the Mezzer now directly from Manitou. Been that way for close to a month now. In all offsets options

  67. #267
    Short-Change-Hero
    Reputation: gregnash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,412
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yeah, but I did not even realize that was an add for the Mezzer till you said it!
    Showing as a full page ad for me. So while that part at the very top center doesn't do much to describe the sides do

  68. #268
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,425
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    I am looking for a 29Ē 140mm travel fork for a ďlite-ishĒ upcoming trail bike build. Is there any reason I would want to buy a Mattoc over the Mezzer being that they look to weigh the same?
    This is what bugs me about the Mattoc's place in the lineup, now.

    The Mattoc was designed to compete with the 34 and Pike in 275 form, not the Lyrik and 36. The Mezzer now is right up there with the big boys, but the Mattoc still lags behind the 34/Pike in 29er form.

    I still contend that Manitou needs to revise the Mattoc for a 1800g target weight in 29" format, 150mm max travel, more stiffer ness est, clearance for 29x2.6 but lower a2c, without much of a price increase.

    Basically, a slimmed down Mezzer would suffice.

    Otherwise, I don't have much interest in a Mattoc and will gladly pay the higher price for the Mezzer for far superior combination of features. I mean really, who wouldn't?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  69. #269
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Thanks. Other advantages over the mcleod from performance perspective, smoother of the top and through the stroke?
    I'm guessing you mean Mattoc?

    Smoother off the top (bigger negative spring) and the HSC range is now exactly where you want it. I never used the HSC on my Mattoc, it stayed open.

    Otherwise bigger and beefier.


    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    This is what bugs me about the Mattoc's place in the lineup, now.

    The Mattoc was designed to compete with the 34 and Pike in 275 form, not the Lyrik and 36. The Mezzer now is right up there with the big boys, but the Mattoc still lags behind the 34/Pike in 29er form.

    I still contend that Manitou needs to revise the Mattoc for a 1800g target weight in 29" format, 150mm max travel, more stiffer ness est, clearance for 29x2.6 but lower a2c, without much of a price increase.

    Basically, a slimmed down Mezzer would suffice.

    Otherwise, I don't have much interest in a Mattoc and will gladly pay the higher price for the Mezzer for far superior combination of features. I mean really, who wouldn't?
    The Mattoc did a great job competing with the Lyrik and F36. The riders I put on a Mattoc got faster than their prior forks and didn't get a beating.
    The thing the Mattoc was missing completely was a big travel 29" version.

    All I can tell you about the Manitou Engineers, is they have plenty to do.

    Lower A-C isn't doable without shorter travel or smaller wheels. The limit is the crown thickness (which is dictated by steerer tube interface) and tyre clearance (which has to be about 5-6mm at full travel).

    Gone are the days when some forks were 20+mm longer for no real reason.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  70. #270
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    890
    £899 in chainreaction - waiting till next year and hopefully should see the price come down a lot.

  71. #271
    No known cure
    Reputation: Vader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,243
    Read the whole thread, and the only thing I'm wondering is when will Vorsprung make a top cap for it.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  72. #272
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I'm guessing you mean Mattoc?

    Smoother off the top (bigger negative spring) and the HSC range is now exactly where you want it. I never used the HSC on my Mattoc, it stayed open.

    Otherwise bigger and beefier.




    The Mattoc did a great job competing with the Lyrik and F36. The riders I put on a Mattoc got faster than their prior forks and didn't get a beating.
    The thing the Mattoc was missing completely was a big travel 29" version.

    All I can tell you about the Manitou Engineers, is they have plenty to do.

    Lower A-C isn't doable without shorter travel or smaller wheels. The limit is the crown thickness (which is dictated by steerer tube interface) and tyre clearance (which has to be about 5-6mm at full travel).

    Gone are the days when some forks were 20+mm longer for no real reason.
    No, shortly before my question you told us about your mara ;-)
    you said, it basically felt the same dampingwhise.

    So let's say it like this: if I have a specifically shimmed mcleod, which works great for me, better than x fusion vector air and coil, Jade, Bos vipr, monarch plus, dvo Topaz, and even does work fine and 12 minutes of descent,what can I gain frome the Mara except ease of service and external tuning?
    I really want it already only because of the last 2 features. But is there more to it?

    Currently my Bird AM 9 is out of order as I do lack the 230*65mm shock. No mcleod with kingcan available in this size neither the Mara :-/

  73. #273
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    No, shortly before my question you told us about your mara ;-)
    you said, it basically felt the same dampingwhise.

    So let's say it like this: if I have a specifically shimmed mcleod, which works great for me, better than x fusion vector air and coil, Jade, Bos vipr, monarch plus, dvo Topaz, and even does work fine and 12 minutes of descent,what can I gain frome the Mara except ease of service and external tuning?
    I really want it already only because of the last 2 features. But is there more to it?

    Currently my Bird AM 9 is out of order as I do lack the 230*65mm shock. No mcleod with kingcan available in this size neither the Mara :-/
    Oh right.

    Yes my Mara feels a lot like the McLeod. They're aiming for the same tuning range. I haven't custom tuned mine, it's still as it arrived.

    Mara is for those needing a heavier shock (more thermal mass and better cooling from more oil and aluminium) and the external damping adjustments (incl work/party switch).

    If you've got a McLeod, with the tune you need, that does everything you need, then why change?
    The other fitment sizes and King-Cans are coming. I'm waiting for one too.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  74. #274
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    This is what bugs me about the Mattoc's place in the lineup, now.

    The Mattoc was designed to compete with the 34 and Pike in 275 form, not the Lyrik and 36. The Mezzer now is right up there with the big boys, but the Mattoc still lags behind the 34/Pike in 29er form.

    I still contend that Manitou needs to revise the Mattoc for a 1800g target weight in 29" format, 150mm max travel, more stiffer ness est, clearance for 29x2.6 but lower a2c, without much of a price increase.

    Basically, a slimmed down Mezzer would suffice.

    Otherwise, I don't have much interest in a Mattoc and will gladly pay the higher price for the Mezzer for far superior combination of features. I mean really, who wouldn't?
    I would agree that the Mattoc could use a further update (Mezzify it as you say).

    1 Fixed HBO (like Mezzer), never felt the need to adjust it and it saves weight and cost (probably makes no difference for the AC height)
    2 Larger negative spring
    3 Reduced IRT volume
    4 Lighter HSC like Dougal said (if that goes light enough for 55-65kg riders as well than fine, if not; offer a light tune version). Plenty of ladies who could use a light weight 150mm 29er fork with compression damping suited for them).
    5 -150gr for the 29 option
    6 More offset options (Mezzer values are welll chosen)

    - Tire clearance for me is fine since the integrated mudguard
    - Stiffness is fine as well. Need stiffer, buy a Mezzer


    1-4 they could possibly do as a big update on the existing chassis, keeping cost and development time down. 5 and 6 would be a different story.

  75. #275
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    I would agree that the Mattoc could use a further update (Mezzify it as you say).

    1 Fixed HBO (like Mezzer), never felt the need to adjust it and it saves weight and cost (probably makes no difference for the AC height)
    2 Larger negative spring
    3 Reduced IRT volume
    4 Lighter HSC like Dougal said (if that goes light enough for 55-65kg riders as well than fine, if not; offer a light tune version). Plenty of ladies who could use a light weight 150mm 29er fork with compression damping suited for them).
    5 -150gr for the 29 option
    6 More offset options (Mezzer values are welll chosen)

    - Tire clearance for me is fine since the integrated mudguard
    - Stiffness is fine as well. Need stiffer, buy a Mezzer


    1-4 they could possibly do as a big update on the existing chassis, keeping cost and development time down. 5 and 6 would be a different story.
    I think all of this things would make the Mattoc better and extremely competitive.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  76. #276
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    I would agree that the Mattoc could use a further update (Mezzify it as you say).

    1 Fixed HBO (like Mezzer), never felt the need to adjust it and it saves weight and cost (probably makes no difference for the AC height)
    2 Larger negative spring
    3 Reduced IRT volume
    4 Lighter HSC like Dougal said (if that goes light enough for 55-65kg riders as well than fine, if not; offer a light tune version). Plenty of ladies who could use a light weight 150mm 29er fork with compression damping suited for them).
    5 -150gr for the 29 option
    6 More offset options (Mezzer values are welll chosen)

    - Tire clearance for me is fine since the integrated mudguard
    - Stiffness is fine as well. Need stiffer, buy a Mezzer


    1-4 they could possibly do as a big update on the existing chassis, keeping cost and development time down. 5 and 6 would be a different story.
    2 its impossible due to stanchion design and stroke range
    3 has no sens with such a big positive chamber. Irt engages too late with bigger split.

    I tried to do it myself by after measuring all internals its impossible. Only way its something like luftkappe, with thinner than stanchion negative chamber enlargement. Imo Manitou did all whats possible to Mattoc.

  77. #277
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Oh right.

    Yes my Mara feels a lot like the McLeod. They're aiming for the same tuning range. I haven't custom tuned mine, it's still as it arrived.

    Mara is for those needing a heavier shock (more thermal mass and better cooling from more oil and aluminium) and the external damping adjustments (incl work/party switch).

    If you've got a McLeod, with the tune you need, that does everything you need, then why change?
    The other fitment sizes and King-Cans are coming. I'm waiting for one too.
    To be fair, both Dougal and my prototype Mara's are actually running McLeod main pistons and tunes. They are more of a proof of concept. The newer versions have updated damper designs that are going to work much better than what we currently have.

    King cans will be stock on production Mara's. They are getting pretty close to ready to hit the market. Shouldn't be too much longer.

  78. #278
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7
    Just put the mezzer on yesterday. 27.5 180mm 37mm offset, very smooth straight out of the box. Definitely noticed the lower offset than the 41mm Mattoc it replaced, very smooth feeling without the wheel flop. Should be able to ride it next week, get the settings dialed in.
    Manitou Mezzer-mezzer.jpeg
    Manitou Mezzer-mezzer2.jpeg

  79. #279
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    I'm seriously considering getting a Mezzer in 160mm for my Pole 140 Evolink. I'm currently on MRP Ribbon air but looking for something different now.

    I was originally considering switching to a Lyrik Ultimate as it seemed to get good reviews for suppleness, stiffness and being RS, spares are readily available and it's mostly DIY serviceable with basic tools.

    Manitou appears to have has a great following with people raving about their dampers and air springs so it the Mezzer is now on my radar.

    I have a few questions.
    1. Are service parts generally easy to come by or is it usually a case of never being in stock or only available from obscure online retailers? Did a quick search and of the 'big' online retailers only Universal seemed to stock seals etc.
    2. Is the special tool kit required for the Mezzzer?
    3. What is Manitou's warranty and service like? Do they respond quickly and make warranty an easy process? MRP have been 1st class and dealt with a binding issue very quickly. Had the fork turned around door to door in a week. Also being able to just phone them and speak to their tech about an issue is very reassuring.
    4. There seems to be a lack of reviews on the Mezzer. I would have expected to see a dew out by now from some of the larger online MTB sites. Does Manitou not send their products out for review?

    Between the Lyrik and Mezzer, the Mezzer is my first choice, just need to be sure about the warranty, service and support for the product. Don't want to be waiting weeks for a warranty issue to be resolved or not being able to perform a repair or service due to lack of availability of parts.
    Pole Evolink 140

  80. #280
    aka bOb
    Reputation: bdundee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8,747
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    . Don't want to be waiting weeks for a warranty issue to be resolved or not being able to perform a repair or service due to lack of availability of parts.
    I can say with 100% confidence you will get way better customer service from Manitou than from RS!!

  81. #281
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I can say with 100% confidence you will get way better customer service from Manitou than from RS!!
    The service intervals are longer and bleeding the mezzer s damper is easier. And it has ports that will rather prevent a blowing bladder than the rs counterpart

  82. #282
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,286
    I run a dorado on my evolink 158.
    Manitou kits is obscenely reliable. In the 15years of manitou kit I snapped one crown clip on my '15. They asked for a photo of my torque wrench, then sent out an upgraded replacement.
    In the 15 years I've replaced wipers once.
    Nothing else has failed.
    I'm swapping seals every 6 months on wifey's RS stuff.

    I do not get why they don't have a bigger following. Manitou stuff is great.

  83. #283
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    the only thing Im worried about is bladder. Why the hell they didnt make ifp?

  84. #284
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    the only thing Im worried about is bladder. Why the hell they didnt make ifp?
    Weight and friction were the 2 biggest factors in every decision. Both point to bladder over IFP

  85. #285
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Weight and friction were the 2 biggest factors in every decision. Both point to bladder over IFP
    is it available as sparepart or the same situation like with bladder for charger 2, 2.1?

  86. #286
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    is it available as sparepart or the same situation like with bladder for charger 2, 2.1?
    Manitou has a history of making every spare part available, though sometimes it takes a little while before they pop up.

    You shouldn't need one though. The damper cartridge has a pressure relief valve built in to prevent ruptures from oil ingestion. The bladder material was also tested for longevity as well. This should be the most reliable bladder damper available, though only years of neglected dampers will show the true story.

  87. #287
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou has a history of making every spare part available, though sometimes it takes a little while before they pop up.

    You shouldn't need one though. The damper cartridge has a pressure relief valve built in to prevent ruptures from oil ingestion. The bladder material was also tested for longevity as well. This should be the most reliable bladder damper available, though only years of neglected dampers will show the true story.
    Im impressed

    Edit: do you have a picture of this valve?

  88. #288
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Great stuff, thanks for the replies. I think I'm convinced. Would I need the Manitou tool kit to service the Mezzer?

    I'm hoping I can find a labor day discount on it somewhere but it being as new as it is that may be wishful thinking.
    Pole Evolink 140

  89. #289
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8,727
    You can make the Manitou fork tools yourself. I cut up a cassette tool and machined down a spare 8mm.

    You need the tools one way or the other. The whole set is only $60.

  90. #290
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Mezzer only needs the slotted cassette tool.

    M5 bleed adapter for the damper too I guess, assuming you want to do a damper service

  91. #291
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elsinore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    587

    Manitou Mezzer

    Help!

    My top cap to the air valve on the lowers is just spinning and will not come off.
    I think itís just spinning the whole air spring around inside the Stancion, it will not unthread to expose the valve.

    Any ideas how I get this damn thing off?

    Thanks

  92. #292
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    Help!

    My top cap to the air valve on the lowers is just spinning and will not come off.
    I think itís just spinning the whole air spring around inside the Stancion, it will not unthread to expose the valve.

    Any ideas how I get this damn thing off?

    Thanks
    First try depressurising the IRT. That may create enough pressure difference to hold it and undo the cap. If not remove the IRT (careful, you will be releasing pressure) and then use an allen key down inside to hold the air shaft and piston.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  93. #293
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Another question, is the 160mm Mezzer just a 180mm Mezzer with a travel reduce spacer already installed at the factory? Just wondering if I should go for the 160mm for convenience if it's the same fork. I intend to increase the travel to 180mm sometime next year when I move to a longer travel frame.
    Pole Evolink 140

  94. #294
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Another question, is the 160mm Mezzer just a 180mm Mezzer with a travel reduce spacer already installed at the factory? Just wondering if I should go for the 160mm for convenience if it's the same fork. I intend to increase the travel to 180mm sometime next year when I move to a longer travel frame.
    Yes. Same fork with spacers either installed or not. You get spacers in the box too.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  95. #295
    mtbr member
    Reputation: elsinore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    587

    Manitou Mezzer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    First try depressurising the IRT. That may create enough pressure difference to hold it and undo the cap. If not remove the IRT (careful, you will be releasing pressure) and then use an allen key down inside to hold the air shaft and piston.
    Thanks Dougal
    But man, that doesnít work. The air piston doesnít have a Allen fitting and I canít even get it close to stoping
    Spinning.
    Any other ideas?

  96. #296
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    Thanks Dougal
    But man, that doesnít work. The air piston doesnít have a Allen fitting and I canít even get it close to stoping
    Spinning.
    Any other ideas?
    The cap should only be finger tight!

    Push a rubber rod in there against the piston to load it against the top-out bumper. See if that will help.

    Shock torquing the cap to undo it would likely work.

    Otherwise lots of options to destroy the cap and get it off.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  97. #297
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Spent two days in the bike park this past weekend. Mezzer, 29, 44mm offset, set to 180mm. I'm 220ish with gear. Started with the recommended air pressures and never deviated:
    64 main
    92 IRT +10 for DH (102 psi)
    I agree with other assertions that the compression damping is light. Toyed with HSC and LSC, cranking them both from open to closed with little appreciable difference in feel.
    Settled on Rebound compression of 2 from closed.

    Frame of reference: Coming from a F36, ACS3, and Push tuned damper. 160mm.

    So with a 20mm difference in travel, its not apples to apples, however the Mezzer gives up nothing to the custom F36 (which was not clapped out and freshly tuned, I might add). Lower main chamber pressure delivered sensitivity off the top, IRT did exactly as advertised: keeping the fork form diving in corners or while plopping down rooty and rocky double blacks. according to the O ring, I found the bottom a couple of times, but wouldn't have known without looking.

    Couple of notes:
    1) The damper side nut is almost impossible to get tight enough to keep bath oil in the right fork leg. Give it extra attention if take it apart to change travel.
    2) A Maxxis Assegai 2.5 will lightly rub inside the fender.
    3) It won't take long for somebody to asky why your fork is on backwards.

    Overall, I think she's a keeper. May crank her down to 140mm to see how she gets along on my trail bike.

  98. #298
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    I (215-220lbs, 160mm 29, Sentinel Carbon) ended up settling on:

    75psi main, 110psi IRT, 3 HSC (from closed), 3 LSC (from closed)

    I tried backing down to 105psi and there was slightly less support than I prefer.

    Only other observation are:

    a) The IRT cap should have some kind of seal on it, I have it tight and still managed to get some dirt/debris under it.
    b) There is a minor amount of bushing play at full extension, it seems to go away when the fork is slightly compressed.

    I let a friend of mine ride it while I rode his bike with the GRIP2, tuned for both of our weight, and he really liked it. His impressions were the same as mine: quieter, more composed, holds a line better, and more compliant. Closing the compression adjusters on the Mezzer seems to make it feel closer to the GRIP2/Helm.

    I wasn't blown away by the GRIP2 like I thought I would be. It is a lot closer to the Helm than I expected in terms of damping performance, much firmer even opened up and less compliant than the Mezzer. It wasn't horrible by any means, but wasn't as game changing as I'd expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    2) A Maxxis Assegai 2.5 will lightly rub inside the fender.
    3) It won't take long for somebody to asky why your fork is on backwards.
    #2: Weird, I ran that w/ I9 Enduro 305 wheels and never had any rub. Same with my Vigilante 2.5.

    #3: Happened on Saturday
    Last edited by Adodero; 08-29-2019 at 06:15 AM.

  99. #299
    mbtr member
    Reputation: scottzg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,889
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    3) It won't take long for somebody to asky why your fork is on backwards.
    I hope you told them you were experimenting with low fork offset.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
    Mikhail Kalashnikov

  100. #300
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Couple of notes:
    1) The damper side nut is almost impossible to get tight enough to keep bath oil in the right fork leg. Give it extra attention if take it apart to change travel.
    Use a ring spanner on the nut and an 8mm allen key in the damper shaft. That lets you nip it up.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  101. #301
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Use a ring spanner on the nut and an 8mm allen key in the damper shaft. That lets you nip it up.
    I did it like that no problems at all

  102. #302
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    Good to see some ride reports.

    I ordered the 27.5 170mm version this morning to replace the 2015 or 2016 Yari that I had upgraded with v1 Charger RCT3 and Debonair spring. I was thinking of another damper upgrade but decided it was time to refresh the front suspension.

    I had all but decided on the new Lyrik Ultimate but stumbled upon the Mezzer and decided to take a chance... on paper I like what it brings to the table for the same price as the Lyrik.

    Weíll see!




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  103. #303
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    357
    My Mezzer just arrived and is a problem right out of the box. The HSC cant turn at all and the LSC knob backs all the way out and fluid came out. Not the start I was looking for! I would assume for anyone the dials should at least spin and have positive stops. Now for the games to start.

    Fun

    29er 160mm 44 offset from Jenson
    Transition Scout Carbon

  104. #304
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    My Mezzer just arrived and is a problem right out of the box. The HSC cant turn at all and the LSC knob backs all the way out and fluid came out. Not the start I was looking for! I would assume for anyone the dials should at least spin and have positive stops. Now for the games to start.

    Fun

    29er 160mm 44 offset from Jenson
    Bummer. I hope you get it sorted without any issues. I'm watching with interest as I'm about to pull the trigger on the Mezzer.

    I'd imagine that if it was like that out of the box and hasn't been mounted yet then Jenson should send out a new replacement.

    Good luck.
    Pole Evolink 140

  105. #305
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    My Mezzer just arrived and is a problem right out of the box. The HSC cant turn at all and the LSC knob backs all the way out and fluid came out. Not the start I was looking for! I would assume for anyone the dials should at least spin and have positive stops. Now for the games to start.

    Fun

    29er 160mm 44 offset from Jenson
    That's not right. Hayes will want your fork back to see what's gone wrong. I've sent some emails with your contact details to Hayes.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  106. #306
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    double post
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  107. #307
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    So the damping is light, as in not functional? Why would the damping make so little difference, I thought that was the whole idea with building a better fork??

    I suppose everyone is different, but I found no real love with RS damping, the Fox FIT4 is terrible, but I do like the GRIP; haven't tried GRIP2.

    So how is the hydraulilc bottom out?

    What's with the leakage issues and adjusting knob failures?

    For 1000USD, I think I'll wait for V2, meanwhile loving my Smashpot Bomber combo.
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  108. #308
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That's not right. Hayes will want your fork back to see what's gone wrong. I've sent some emails with your contact details to Hayes.
    I like Manitou, but they really need to spend a few minutes with each fork, turning the adjustments all the way in and out, compressing fully, etc...

    These are $1000usd each, not small chickens.

    After reading about that Italian shock on PB, where they said they put each shock on a dyno before shipping, it seems to me that should be a standard.

    I remember when Manitou Mastodons were having the "settling" steerer tube issues, man that must of put some folks off.
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  109. #309
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    So the damping is light, as in not functional? Why would the damping make so little difference, I thought that was the whole idea with building a better fork??

    I suppose everyone is different, but I found no real love with RS damping, the Fox FIT4 is terrible, but I do like the GRIP; haven't tried GRIP2.

    So how is the hydraulilc bottom out?

    What's with the leakage issues and adjusting knob failures?

    For 1000USD, I think I'll wait for V2, meanwhile loving my Smashpot Bomber combo.
    The damping dials make a big and noticable difference. Some people want the knobs to go to lockout and get all disappointed when they don't get hard in a carpark test.

    The damper has both more support and better compliance than all the competition. You need to ride it to know.

    The hydraulic bottom out does exactly what it should and is completely invisible. Manitou have 10 years of HBO now, the Dorado has had it since 2009 and various Mattoc and Minute forks since 2014. I love it, it's always a shock to get back on another fork that doesn't have it.

    We have one fork with a knob problem. We've got people on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I like Manitou, but they really need to spend a few minutes with each fork, turning the adjustments all the way in and out, compressing fully, etc...

    These are $1000usd each, not small chickens.

    After reading about that Italian shock on PB, where they said they put each shock on a dyno before shipping, it seems to me that should be a standard.

    I remember when Manitou Mastodons were having the "settling" steerer tube issues, man that must of put some folks off.
    Having been inside the Manitou factory and watched assembly, it's a slick operation. Rear shocks (McLeod) were all dyno'd after assembly to check damping range.

    The Mastodon steerer issue was sorted as soon as it was discovered.

    You should check the user reviews of that Italian shock. It's great that you like your customised Vorsprung/Fox/Marzocchi combo fork. But see if you can get a ride on a Mezzer and make your own opinion.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  110. #310
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    357
    Thanks Dougal, It was nice talking to you on the phone. Your input here is valuable.

    Jenson, which is simply there system needs the fork back, then credit me, then I get to decide if I reorder this fork which is now on backorder for 2 weeks or just order a different fork.

    Today was going to be exciting then it wasnt. HaHa
    Transition Scout Carbon

  111. #311
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    Thanks Dougal, It was nice talking to you on the phone. Your input here is valuable.

    Jenson, which is simply there system needs the fork back, then credit me, then I get to decide if I reorder this fork which is now on backorder for 2 weeks or just order a different fork.

    Today was going to be exciting then it wasnt. HaHa
    29" 44mm offset forks are showing as in stock on the Manitou-MTB website. So no idea why Jenson are saying 2 weeks.

    We'll see if we can get some good news to you tomorrow.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  112. #312
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,853
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The damping dials make a big and noticable difference. Some people want the knobs to go to lockout and get all disappointed when they don't get hard in a carpark test.

    The damper has both more support and better compliance than all the competition. You need to ride it to know.

    The hydraulic bottom out does exactly what it should and is completely invisible. Manitou have 10 years of HBO now, the Dorado has had it since 2009 and various Mattoc and Minute forks since 2014. I love it, it's always a shock to get back on another fork that doesn't have it.

    We have one fork with a knob problem. We've got people on it.



    Having been inside the Manitou factory and watched assembly, it's a slick operation. Rear shocks (McLeod) were all dyno'd after assembly to check damping range.

    The Mastodon steerer issue was sorted as soon as it was discovered.

    You should check the user reviews of that Italian shock. It's great that you like your customised Vorsprung/Fox/Marzocchi combo fork. But see if you can get a ride on a Mezzer and make your own opinion.
    I trust you Dougal, you give good advice and you're consistent in what you say, but you need to tell Manitou to check each fork cuz one bad response can cause a cascade.

    Thanks for clarifying the "light damping" question, as long as it works for damping, I agree that a full lockout is really not needed on a fork like the Mezzer; silly really.

    The hydraulic bottom out is one of the things that I like, esp after experiencing the Vorsprung Smashpot.

    I think my buddy Greg will end up on a Mezzer, maybe them I'll get to try one.

    Any idea if they'll OEM on any bikes come 2020?
    Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg
    Fezzari Signal Peak (For Sale)
    Pivot Shuttle (wife's)

  113. #313
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Here are some spring-rate equivalents (mid-stroke) for the Mezzer IRT system. I've created these based off charts from the Manitou engineering team. Primarily for to get equivalence to my spring-rate calculators for quick and easy setup.

    Spring rate calculators: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...te-calculators

    Equivalent spring-rate, Lower main pressure/upper IRT pressure.

    30lb/in = 30/45psi
    35lb/in = 35/55psi
    40lb/in = 40/80psi
    45lb/in = 50/90psi
    50lb/in = 60/100psi

    I've revised and softened my spring pressure after my initial (downhill shuttle) rides. I was running 45/80 and now at 40/80. It seems like a minor change but there's about 10% difference in spring force across the stroke.

    Their charts show the lower main pressure affects the entire stroke a lot more than I was expecting.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  114. #314
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I trust you Dougal, you give good advice and you're consistent in what you say, but you need to tell Manitou to check each fork cuz one bad response can cause a cascade.

    Thanks for clarifying the "light damping" question, as long as it works for damping, I agree that a full lockout is really not needed on a fork like the Mezzer; silly really.

    The hydraulic bottom out is one of the things that I like, esp after experiencing the Vorsprung Smashpot.

    I think my buddy Greg will end up on a Mezzer, maybe them I'll get to try one.

    Any idea if they'll OEM on any bikes come 2020?
    We absolutely know what happens when an assembly mistake gets out. But the most important things are to get a good one to the customer and get the mistake back to find out what went wrong, how it went wrong and make sure it doesn't recur.

    The other issue with a wider than needed damping range is it compromises the damping in in the ranges you need. Both in curve shape and resolution for each click.

    The OEM guys have lips sealed shut. They tell me nothing.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  115. #315
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7
    Got the mezzer installed and took it for a test ride in santa cruz. I'm 185lbs, running 42psi main/ 75psi irt, 1 click lsc, 1 click hsc. rebound pretty fast, dont know the clicks. Riding this bike,

    Manitou Mezzer-s1600_dsc_0677.jpg

    Holy shitballs. I had been riding a gen1 Mattoc @170mm travel, 41mm offset with 26" wheels for the past 4.5 years and considered that an amazing fork, it did what i wanted, was easy to service and tune and was more sensitive and plush than my friends' coil or air forks. But this is multiple levels above that.

    The stiffness first off is huge over the mattoc, doesnt deflect or flex at high speeds or over angled roots. The travel feels seamless between initial, midstroke and bottom out. Used full travel once, but couldnt feel it. Very composed on bigger jumps and choppy sections.

    The offset surprised me with how much it improved the handling of the bike. It felt as though front wheel grip was endless even on off camber corners and inside lines at speed. Really made the bike feel more balanced and stable, although it was obviously underforked before with the mattoc.

    So far i have zero complaints, the quality look and feel are impressive, the compression adjusters on top are noticeably smoother and more defined than the mattoc. I am going to recommend it to my riding buddies. It was worth the wait and cost.

  116. #316
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Some people want the knobs to go to lockout and get all disappointed when they don't get hard in a carpark test.
    Guessing that was aimed at me since I am the last one to comment on "light" damping.

    Two days of back to back on flow and tech trails in different bike parks, and I failed to feel an appreciable difference in compression settings, HSC or LSC , during 22,506 ft of descending. Bike was a Pole Stamina 180, which I ended up breaking. Note that I also remarked that the fork gives up nothing to a full Push'ed 36....it performs great. I am also probably not the weight that the damping was originally designed to contend with.

    Somehow I guess that can be translated as trying to get the fork to lock out in a car park.

    Thanks for the tip on how to tighten the damper nut....I failed to see that it will accept an 8mm key.

  117. #317
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Guessing that was aimed at me since I am the last one to comment on "light" damping.

    Two days of back to back on flow and tech trails in different bike parks, and I failed to feel an appreciable difference in compression settings, HSC or LSC , during 22,506 ft of descending. Bike was a Pole Stamina 180, which I ended up breaking. Note that I also remarked that the fork gives up nothing to a full Push'ed 36....it performs great. I am also probably not the weight that the damping was originally designed to contend with.

    Somehow I guess that can be translated as trying to get the fork to lock out in a car park.

    Thanks for the tip on how to tighten the damper nut....I failed to see that it will accept an 8mm key.
    You don't feel any difference between LSC and HSC both wide open and fully closed?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  118. #318
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Guessing that was aimed at me since I am the last one to comment on "light" damping.

    Two days of back to back on flow and tech trails in different bike parks, and I failed to feel an appreciable difference in compression settings, HSC or LSC , during 22,506 ft of descending. Bike was a Pole Stamina 180, which I ended up breaking. Note that I also remarked that the fork gives up nothing to a full Push'ed 36....it performs great. I am also probably not the weight that the damping was originally designed to contend with.

    Somehow I guess that can be translated as trying to get the fork to lock out in a car park.

    Thanks for the tip on how to tighten the damper nut....I failed to see that it will accept an 8mm key.
    On a Mattoc, when you turn the HSC or LSC individually to fully closed, you might not feel anything in a push test but if you close both together, the fork should almost lock out. That is an easy way to make sure the compression system is working OK.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  119. #319
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    You don't feel any difference between LSC and HSC both wide open and fully closed?
    HSC---nada. full closed to full open....have no idea where i left it
    LSC---marginal. full closed to full open....i know i backed it off from full closed a couple of clicks.

    ideally, valving should be such that you should only be a couple clicks off of center. At my weight/speed/skill level, the table has me at the periphery of the adjustments as a starting point, which indicates that I am running out of the usable effective range of the valving....FOR ME...and Manitou has to tune it for everyone, not just me. at the end of the day, F=MA.

    again...the fork is performing admirably. I would be hard pressed to recommend a coil and custom tune over the Mezzer in stock fashion...unless the rider were 220lb+ before gear.

  120. #320
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Odd, I weigh about 215-220 with gear and I felt a difference with the HSC adjuster in particular. I ran the same 2 or so minute section with it open and closed, with it closed the bike felt more responsive and the fork rode higher, but it was a bit harsher and resulted in more arm pump. When open, it was more compliant and less supportive. The LSC adjustments were a bit more subtle in difference, I'm not entirely certain I've found a setting I'm confident in with the LSC adjuster yet.

    Even closed off, I can't say I felt it spike like some others tend to do once the HSC adjuster reaches a certain point (e.g. DVO), so the difference may not be as significant as other forks when the HSC adjuster is closed, but I felt it was there.

  121. #321
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Odd, I weigh about 215-220 with gear and I felt a difference with the HSC adjuster in particular. I ran the same 2 or so minute section with it open and closed, with it closed the bike felt more responsive and the fork rode higher, but it was a bit harsher and resulted in more arm pump. When open, it was more compliant and less supportive. The LSC adjustments were a bit more subtle in difference, I'm not entirely certain I've found a setting I'm confident in with the LSC adjuster yet.

    Even closed off, I can't say I felt it spike like some others tend to do once the HSC adjuster reaches a certain point (e.g. DVO), so the difference may not be as significant as other forks when the HSC adjuster is closed, but I felt it was there.
    Cool. I am sure there are lost of variables...and of course, different strokes for different folks. It looks like you are controlling movement with a stiffer [air] spring than me, and less damping. I am using a softer [air] spring and controlling the movement with more damping.

    I do think we tend to get wrapped around the "perfect" settings. Its mind numbing to listen to it in motocross. some guys are always tinkering. other guys are fast no matter what. In reality, its impossible to hit the exact same line at the exact same speed with the exact same body position twice in a row. i wonder how often a wrench tells their rider they made some adjustments, when i reality they are just sending the rider back out and depending on placebo effect?

    In my opinion, arm pump is not solely related to suspension...but that is a topic for another thread.

  122. #322
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    HSC---nada. full closed to full open....have no idea where i left it
    LSC---marginal. full closed to full open....i know i backed it off from full closed a couple of clicks.

    ideally, valving should be such that you should only be a couple clicks off of center. At my weight/speed/skill level, the table has me at the periphery of the adjustments as a starting point, which indicates that I am running out of the usable effective range of the valving....FOR ME...and Manitou has to tune it for everyone, not just me. at the end of the day, F=MA.

    again...the fork is performing admirably. I would be hard pressed to recommend a coil and custom tune over the Mezzer in stock fashion...unless the rider were 220lb+ before gear.
    When you close both together what does it feel like?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  123. #323
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    In my opinion, arm pump is not solely related to suspension...but that is a topic for another thread.
    That's fair, I guess the better way to say it would have been that I felt the bike pushing into me a bit more than I did when it was open. It reminded me more of my Helm closed off, which is a very supportive fork that isn't as compliant as the Mezzer is when the adjusters are open. So it would hit a square edge or feature, but rather than absorb it and track over it, it felt like it was pushing into the rider.

    In any case, I did realize that I had my settings off in the previous post. I was 3 from closed on the LSC adjuster, not 7. I edited it to update it.

  124. #324
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    When you close both together what does it feel like?
    Don't recall if I ever ran the system fully closed. At 1-2 HSC and 2-5 LSC (per the manual), when closing one fully, the other is almost fully closed, also. I know that I ran it like that.

    As of now, the fork is not installed as I am working on a frame warranty.

  125. #325
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    357
    So update on the fork. I called Manitou customer service. They are intrested in getting the fork back and looking at it. If the fork goes back to Jenson chances are the Hayes group wont see it for a while. Thinking I will let them fix it and hope to get a perfect fork back. Hopefully I can talk to someone that is actually a service person would be great. Knowing myself if I send it to Jenson I will end up with a Fox 36 Grip2 for sure. Lets see how Hayes warranty and customer service works.

    Im thinking postive. Hoping I wont have to ship it to NZ to Dougal to get it fixed properly.
    Transition Scout Carbon

  126. #326
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Vespasianus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,755
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Don't recall if I ever ran the system fully closed. At 1-2 HSC and 2-5 LSC (per the manual), when closing one fully, the other is almost fully closed, also. I know that I ran it like that.
    On the Mattoc even 1 or 2 clicks from fully closed won't really "stiffen" up the fork. That only happens when you fully close both. I would argue that if you close them and get a locked out feel, that means everything is working OK.

    The two adjusters work together and will impact the ride, but is felt more on the trail and less in the lot if you know what I mean. The Manitou MC2 document has lots of great information.



    MC2-User-Guide.pdf
    Last edited by Vespasianus; 08-29-2019 at 06:45 PM.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  127. #327
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Velodonata's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    ...Lets see how Hayes warranty and customer service works.

    Im thinking postive. Hoping I wont have to ship it to NZ to Dougal to get it fixed properly.
    I expect they will get you taken care of, especially with it being a new and high profile product. The one time I had a problem for Manitou's warranty department, it was handled fairly, promptly and effectively. I was in no particular hurry and only used email to contact them, and they didn't always reply super quick, but they do get back in a reasonable amount of time and they always had a thorough response that addressed my questions. Once I finally got around to sending the item in, they had it back to me very quickly.

  128. #328
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The damper has both more support and better compliance than all the competition. You need to ride it to know.
    Hi Dougal,
    Can you elaborate a bit more on the quote above and the Mezzer damper?
    I'm not a suspension expert, and I always thought support and compliance are opposite of each other with regards to compression damping.
    Thanks!

  129. #329
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    Hi Dougal,
    Can you elaborate a bit more on the quote above and the Mezzer damper?
    I'm not a suspension expert, and I always thought support and compliance are opposite of each other with regards to compression damping.
    Thanks!
    Yes they are the opposite and to get both requires a damper to be very well designed and tuned.

    If a damper has any choke points the suspension will suffer from harshness and may even spike on sharp hits. Without offering support There is a very good example of this selling in huge numbers right now.

    If the damper has more compression damping than is needed then it will give lots of support but always feel rough. There is a very good example of this out there right now too.

    If a damper has not enough compression damping then compliance will be good but it will not have enough support and will rely too heavily on the spring. Which then reduces compliance. Many examples of this out there too.

    Manitou however got it all right out the box with the Mezzer. So it has more support and compliance than everything else.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  130. #330
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    HSC---nada. full closed to full open....have no idea where i left it
    LSC---marginal. full closed to full open....i know i backed it off from full closed a couple of clicks.

    ideally, valving should be such that you should only be a couple clicks off of center. At my weight/speed/skill level, the table has me at the periphery of the adjustments as a starting point, which indicates that I am running out of the usable effective range of the valving....FOR ME...and Manitou has to tune it for everyone, not just me. at the end of the day, F=MA.

    again...the fork is performing admirably. I would be hard pressed to recommend a coil and custom tune over the Mezzer in stock fashion...unless the rider were 220lb+ before gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Don't recall if I ever ran the system fully closed. At 1-2 HSC and 2-5 LSC (per the manual), when closing one fully, the other is almost fully closed, also. I know that I ran it like that.

    As of now, the fork is not installed as I am working on a frame warranty.
    It seems like you're expecting the adjusters to do something different to how they actually work.

    HSC dials will make absolutely no difference to how a damper behaves until you reach high enough shaft speed for the low speed circuit to choke. At this point the damper follows the curve of the high speed circuits (shims, ports, preload springs etc).

    LSC dials change how the damping force builds with shaft speed up to the curve of the high speed circuits.

    If you have a retardedly stiff hsc circuit (looking at you Charger 1 RC) then all the oil goes through the LSC and LSC has an extremely noticable effect. This is not normal and only works that way because of the terrible damper tune.

    If you have a soft HSC circuit then the changes in LSC will be subtle enough that most riders cannot feel them until it's near closed or totally closed. Perceptive people will feel the difference in fork behaviour while pumping it between LSC open and closed but not intermediate settings.

    To check a damper is working, fully close both LSC and HSC. On a push test the fork should give about 3x more resistance and give a slight platform feel.

    If LSC is open even a few clicks the above test won't show anything. If LSC is closed but HSC is open a few clicks most people won't feel anything.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  131. #331
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    It seems like you're expecting the adjusters to do something different to how they actually work.

    HSC dials will make absolutely no difference to how a damper behaves until you reach high enough shaft speed for the low speed circuit to choke. At this point the damper follows the curve of the high speed circuits (shims, ports, preload springs etc).

    LSC dials change how the damping force builds with shaft speed up to the curve of the high speed circuits.

    If you have a retardedly stiff hsc circuit (looking at you Charger 1 RC) then all the oil goes through the LSC and LSC has an extremely noticable effect. This is not normal and only works that way because of the terrible damper tune.

    If you have a soft HSC circuit then the changes in LSC will be subtle enough that most riders cannot feel them until it's near closed or totally closed. Perceptive people will feel the difference in fork behaviour while pumping it between LSC open and closed but not intermediate settings.

    To check a damper is working, fully close both LSC and HSC. On a push test the fork should give about 3x more resistance and give a slight platform feel.

    If LSC is open even a few clicks the above test won't show anything. If LSC is closed but HSC is open a few clicks most people won't feel anything.
    I blame fox and RS for these issues. They design dampers that win the parking lot push test and suck on the trail. When dampers come out that are designed to perform on a trail rather than the parking lot, people do t know what to do.

    Can't win em all I guess.

  132. #332
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    It seems like you're expecting the adjusters to do something different to how they actually work.
    perhaps you are right. i expected the clickers to alter the way the fork behaves when running jump trails back to back and also when running technical trails back to back. i should have expected zero difference.

    i just mounted a stem and and bars to the fork. my previous settings were LSC 2 clicks from closed and HSC fully closed. I sat the fork legs on a towel on floor. i aggressively pressed on the bars in 3 configurations (almost getting to full travel): last settings, fully closed and fully open. zero difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I blame fox and RS for these issues. They design dampers that win the parking lot push test and suck on the trail. When dampers come out that are designed to perform on a trail rather than the parking lot, people do t know what to do.

    Can't win em all I guess.
    nailed it. i turned the red knob expecting better wheelies and the blue knob expecting better stoppies in the parking lot. the reports from the trail were my VR feedback.

    I believe the fork is working as intended. if springs store energy and dampers diffuse energy, then it stands to reason that the greater force applied to the damper, the more difficulty it has diffusing said force. if, by weight, a rider is living at the periphery of the available settings, then the valving is too light or too heavy for them.

    This can be combated, to some degree, by changing your spring rate...we can debate whether or not that is ideal. Its interesting that many in this thread are running spring rates that are north of the recommendations....

  133. #333
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    i just mounted a stem and and bars to the fork. my previous settings were LSC 2 clicks from closed and HSC fully closed. I sat the fork legs on a towel on floor. i aggressively pressed on the bars in 3 configurations (almost getting to full travel): last settings, fully closed and fully open. zero difference.
    If you're feeling no difference at all between fully open and fully closed, then we need someone else to take a look at your fork.

    The full sweep of both adjusters should take you somewhere from 5-30 kg of force at 1 m/s.

    *edit* But you'll only acheive like 0.1-0.2 m/s with hand compression, which is a lot less damping force.
    */edit*
    Last edited by Dougal; 09-01-2019 at 02:08 PM.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  134. #334
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I blame fox and RS for these issues. They design dampers that win the parking lot push test and suck on the trail. When dampers come out that are designed to perform on a trail rather than the parking lot, people do t know what to do.

    Can't win em all I guess.
    lifting and dropping a bike with fat negative springs feels so good though. NO bounce

  135. #335
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    357
    My fork has arrived at Hayes. Hopefully Monday I will hear something. Hoping this works out and I get a fork that operates as good as it sounds. Does manitou have a team like Fox does in Scotts Valley that are working in house. I have had two forks built by the guys in house with matched bushing and hand picked parts. Those forks and shocks have always been money.

    Now waiting till monday.
    Transition Scout Carbon

  136. #336
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Ordered my Mezzer today. Scored a 15% labor day discount too so just over $800 delivered. Can't wait to receive it. Hoping it's going to be an improvement over my MRP Ribbon air.
    Pole Evolink 140

  137. #337
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Ordered my Mezzer today. Scored a 15% labor day discount too so just over $800 delivered. Can't wait to receive it. Hoping it's going to be an improvement over my MRP Ribbon air.
    Where did you order from?

  138. #338
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Where did you order from?
    Worldwide Cyclery with code laborday-15

  139. #339
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Worldwide Cyclery with code laborday-15
    Best Deal going around. Only 51 offset though unfortunately.

  140. #340
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    357
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2tBHFS9r4

    This video, in Italian is really good if you want inside details of the fork.

    Best Mezzer video yet.
    Transition Scout Carbon

  141. #341
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2tBHFS9r4

    This video, in Italian is really good if you want inside details of the fork.

    Best Mezzer video yet.
    1 hour 8 minutes! I'm going to have to email Dave and ask for a highlights reel!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  142. #342
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,518
    Quote Originally Posted by KenDobson View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2tBHFS9r4

    This video, in Italian is really good if you want inside details of the fork.

    Best Mezzer video yet.
    Wasn't there some plugin for Chrome or IE that was able to translate (by adding captions) to the video? Does that ring a bell with anyone?
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  143. #343
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Trying to get things ready for when my fork arrives.

    1) Will I need the slotted cassette tool to change the travel?
    2) I have plenty Rockshox fork oil on 15WT and 5WT. Will any of those do for replenishing the lower leg oil when is the travel adjust? If not what is the oil spec?

    I looked on the Manitou site but couldn't find and service docs for the Mezzer. Guess the fork is still so new that they haven't got the documentation ready yet.
    Pole Evolink 140

  144. #344
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Trying to get things ready for when my fork arrives.

    1) Will I need the slotted cassette tool to change the travel?
    2) I have plenty Rockshox fork oil on 15WT and 5WT. Will any of those do for replenishing the lower leg oil when is the travel adjust? If not what is the oil spec?

    I looked on the Manitou site but couldn't find and service docs for the Mezzer. Guess the fork is still so new that they haven't got the documentation ready yet.
    1. Yes.
    2. No. Those oils are garbage. Keep the legs level and you will not lose any oil during removal/reinstall.

    Oil spec is Semi-bath 5W40 by Motorex. I don't have the bath oil volume yet. I'll harass the Engineers when they're back at work Monday.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  145. #345
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    1. Yes.
    2. No. Those oils are garbage. Keep the legs level and you will not lose any oil during removal/reinstall.

    Oil spec is Semi-bath 5W40 by Motorex. I don't have the bath oil volume yet. I'll harass the Engineers when they're back at work Monday.
    Thanks Dougal. Do you know what the fork oil service interval is?
    I found this for the oil. Is that correct? Doesn't appear to say Motorex on the bottle.
    Pole Evolink 140

  146. #346
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    You can make the Manitou fork tools yourself. I cut up a cassette tool and machined down a spare 8mm.

    You need the tools one way or the other. The whole set is only $60.
    How big does does the slot on the cassette tool need to be? I have a couple spare so can have a go at cutting one up.
    Pole Evolink 140

  147. #347
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Thanks Dougal. Do you know what the fork oil service interval is?
    I found this for the oil. Is that correct? Doesn't appear to say Motorex on the bottle.
    That's the stock damper oil. But it's not used for the lower leg lubrication.

    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    How big does does the slot on the cassette tool need to be? I have a couple spare so can have a go at cutting one up.
    The shaft is 10mm, the slot needs to reach around that without any damage. Make sure you've got no sharp edges.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  148. #348
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    1. Yes.
    2. No. Those oils are garbage. Keep the legs level and you will not lose any oil during removal/reinstall.

    Oil spec is Semi-bath 5W40 by Motorex. I don't have the bath oil volume yet. I'll harass the Engineers when they're back at work Monday.
    21 ml of bath oil in each leg.

  149. #349
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    21 ml of bath oil in each leg.
    Yeah 20ml is ok. Confirmed.

  150. #350
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That's the stock damper oil. But it's not used for the lower leg lubrication.
    OK, is this correct for lower legs?
    https://www.motorex.com/en-us/bike-l...g-fork-oil-5w/

  151. #351
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    OK, is this correct for lower legs?
    https://www.motorex.com/en-us/bike-l...g-fork-oil-5w/
    No, viscosity is too low

  152. #352
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    No, viscosity is too low
    Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40

  153. #353
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40
    Got it. Thanks

  154. #354
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    158
    Just some random weight comparison...

    2018 Lyrik RC 27.5 37mm offset with 170mm Debonair airshaft - 1998g

    Same Lyrik but with DSD Runt and Push HC97 damper - 2067g

    Same Lyrik but with DSD runt and Avalanche damper (w/ FvAT/HSB) - 2201g

    2019 DVO Diamond 27.5 Boost @ 170mm - 2336g

    I will say, the Runt and the Avalanche damper is pretty good so far. If the Mezzer can match it while being almost 200g lighter and with a stiffer chassis, that's pretty rad.

  155. #355
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40
    thicc bois. wow.

  156. #356
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    thicc bois. wow.
    Manitou do sell it, but no-one but me seems to stock it. My Motorex Fully Synthetic is the same stuff, My Polar Synthetic is a close relation but 0W40:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/oils/lube-oil

    Here's a nice application chart:


    Supergliss is more slippery, but also more temperature sensitive.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  157. #357
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,415
    interesting. wonder what the difference in viscosity index is between the two. and if there are additives in that 5w40 that help/hinder when used in damper application.

  158. #358
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Manitou do sell it, but no-one but me seems to stock it. My Motorex Fully Synthetic is the same stuff, My Polar Synthetic is a close relation but 0W40:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/oils/lube-oil

    Here's a nice application chart:


    Supergliss is more slippery, but also more temperature sensitive.
    Which Supergliss do you sell @Dougal?

  159. #359
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    Which Supergliss do you sell @Dougal?
    Three different viscosities: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/supergl...c-motorex.html

    Supergliss 100K is the one I've been supplying for about 6 or so years. 100 cSt @40C.
    Supergliss 68K is 1/3 thinner. 68 cSt @ 40C.
    Supergliss 32K is the thinnest. 32 cSt @ 40C.

    So I made up that chart to show the best use of each one. Here's a viscosity chart for those who want to see more detail:

    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  160. #360
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Manitou do sell it, but no-one but me seems to stock it. My Motorex Fully Synthetic is the same stuff, My Polar Synthetic is a close relation but 0W40:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/oils/lube-oil

    Here's a nice application chart:


    Supergliss is more slippery, but also more temperature sensitive.
    Interesting chart. So for ultimate performance you'd go Supergliss 100K for the summer and switch to Supergliss 32K for the winter.

  161. #361
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    interesting. wonder what the difference in viscosity index is between the two. and if there are additives in that 5w40 that help/hinder when used in damper application.
    Viscosity Index (VI)
    170 for the 5W40 and 0W40
    100 for Supergliss 100K and 68K
    117 for Supergliss 32K

    Hilariously, Supergliss 32K is better in the hot and cold than many 32 cSt fork oils!
    Motorex say it has a pour point of -18C, but at -25C it's still sloshing around perfectly fine so I guess they just threw out a safe number.

    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Interesting chart. So for ultimate performance you'd go Supergliss 100K for the summer and switch to Supergliss 32K for the winter.
    That's a solid option.

    I run Supergliss 100K in summer, I previously ran Polar 0W40 over winter with excellent results but last winter I didn't ride in the cold and never got around to changing it.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  162. #362
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Seems like finding Supergliss in the US is like finding hens teeth. Only place I see it for sale is the German online bike stores. Apparently DT Swiss forks spec the oil too.

  163. #363
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou bath oil is motorex power synt 4T 5w40
    Is there any particular reason using a motor oil, like the above, would be more detrimental than a fork oil?

  164. #364
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Viscosity Index (VI)
    170 for the 5W40 and 0W40
    100 for Supergliss 100K and 68K
    117 for Supergliss 32K

    Hilariously, Supergliss 32K is better in the hot and cold than many 32 cSt fork oils!
    Motorex say it has a pour point of -18C, but at -25C it's still sloshing around perfectly fine so I guess they just threw out a safe number.



    That's a solid option.

    I run Supergliss 100K in summer, I previously ran Polar 0W40 over winter with excellent results but last winter I didn't ride in the cold and never got around to changing it.
    awesome! thanks for sharing. makes sense why the 5w40 is used for a continent (world?)-wide factory fill then.

    for the hardcore tuners out there, you're still better off with a more climate/season-specific oil looks like.

    really curious how all the additives and detergents in newer oils interact with dampers though. SAPS and all that, and if race oils without all that would be better (maybe thats what supergliss is?)

  165. #365
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Is there any particular reason using a motor oil, like the above, would be more detrimental than a fork oil?
    The motorex 4T was found to have the best performance over a wide range of temperatures. There are better warm and better cold oils, but nothing could compete with 4T over ta wide range of temps, that's why it was chosen.

    Similar oils from other brands won't give the same performance, but I wouldn't say they would be detrimental to the fork. If you only ride in temps above 40F/5c, the easiest oil to get that works well is Fox Gold. Its worth buying supergliss 100k from Dougal if you want top performance,I highly recommend it.

    I personally don't think supergliss 32k is worth the hassle in cold weather though, at least where I live. If I'm riding in the cold, its slick out and the speeds are much slower. In these situations, I don't need a super oil, the stock 4T is plenty good. The only way I would buy 32k or 64k would be if my summers are not that hot and I can run it all year. That's just my opinion though, if you can ride just as hard in the winter as in the summer, the extra performance of the supergliss may be worth it.

  166. #366
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    The motorex 4T was found to have the best performance over a wide range of temperatures. There are better warm and better cold oils, but nothing could compete with 4T over ta wide range of temps, that's why it was chosen.

    Similar oils from other brands won't give the same performance, but I wouldn't say they would be detrimental to the fork. If you only ride in temps above 40F/5c, the easiest oil to get that works well is Fox Gold. Its worth buying supergliss 100k from Dougal if you want top performance,I highly recommend it.

    I personally don't think supergliss 32k is worth the hassle in cold weather though, at least where I live. If I'm riding in the cold, its slick out and the speeds are much slower. In these situations, I don't need a super oil, the stock 4T is plenty good. The only way I would buy 32k or 64k would be if my summers are not that hot and I can run it all year. That's just my opinion though, if you can ride just as hard in the winter as in the summer, the extra performance of the supergliss may be worth it.
    Great, good to know. I'm in WNC (typically ride in Pisgah), it does get below 40f in the winter, but my typical limit is around 30-32f before I don't feel like going outside anymore. Sounds like the 100k may be the best option then.

  167. #367
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Seems like finding Supergliss in the US is like finding hens teeth. Only place I see it for sale is the German online bike stores. Apparently DT Swiss forks spec the oil too.
    I ship quite a bit over to the states. Yes it was DT Swiss that first started me looking at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Is there any particular reason using a motor oil, like the above, would be more detrimental than a fork oil?
    Motor oil is designed to adhere and survive shearing. Which it does very well but the slipperiness varies from excellent to terrible depending on brand and type.
    Manitou found the Motorex 5W40 back in 2003 (semibath) and it's still the best oil for single fill worldwide.

    Damper oil is designed to stay stable over a wider temperature range. Which it does very well but it doesn't adhere like motor oils.

    Supergliss is an industrial lubrication oil. It's designed to adhere and lubricate like nothing else.

    Official Mezzer bath oil quantities. 15cc per side. May require top-up of about 7cc each side every 25 hours.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  168. #368
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Great, good to know. I'm in WNC (typically ride in Pisgah), it does get below 40f in the winter, but my typical limit is around 30-32f before I don't feel like going outside anymore. Sounds like the 100k may be the best option then.
    I'm in CLT, so ride up in Pisgah quite frequently. Actually just got back from there. Can't wait to try out the Mezzer up there.

  169. #369
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I ship quite a bit over to the states. Yes it was DT Swiss that first started me looking at it.
    .
    .
    .
    Official Mezzer bath oil quantities. 15cc per side. May require top-up of about 7cc each side every 25 hours.
    Thanks, good to know you ship to the US.

    Where is the oil going? Is it coming out the top seals? 7cc every 25 hours seems like a lot to lose.

  170. #370
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    I'm in CLT, so ride up in Pisgah quite frequently. Actually just got back from there. Can't wait to try out the Mezzer up there.
    It feels awesome, tracks so nicely especially on the chunky stuff. It's really awesome in corners and switchbacks. I've been able to line the bike up really nicely with the outside of corners in ways that I haven't before, mainly I can take a wider line even if it's a chunkier or more difficult line and the bike tracks better, which is nice for a long wheelbase bike like my Sentinel.

    We did Buckwheat Knob last weekend along with the new Avery and it did really well. I roll most of the drops on Buckwheat and it did great, no diving, but also tracked really well on the eroded sections of the trail. I also rode it at Sugar bike park this past weekend and it was fantastic there, also. I'm not a shredder by any means, but I thought it did a great job of standing up to it's travel and tracking over features at the same time.

  171. #371
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    Any issues with the reverse arch and compatibility with racks that use the front wheel hook-style clamp (like my Kuat Sherpa)?

    I've always clamped it with the hook slightly braced against the arch on my current fork and it dawned on me last night when loading the bike that the arch won't be there anymore and the stanchions might be exposed to the clamp.

  172. #372
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    It feels awesome, tracks so nicely especially on the chunky stuff. It's really awesome in corners and switchbacks. I've been able to line the bike up really nicely with the outside of corners in ways that I haven't before, mainly I can take a wider line even if it's a chunkier or more difficult line and the bike tracks better, which is nice for a long wheelbase bike like my Sentinel.

    We did Buckwheat Knob last weekend along with the new Avery and it did really well. I roll most of the drops on Buckwheat and it did great, no diving, but also tracked really well on the eroded sections of the trail. I also rode it at Sugar bike park this past weekend and it was fantastic there, also. I'm not a shredder by any means, but I thought it did a great job of standing up to it's travel and tracking over features at the same time.
    That sounds awesome. Can't wait to try it. I've yet to go explore the new work done on Avery & Black Mountain. I ride a Pole so also on a long bike.
    Pole Evolink 140

  173. #373
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,447

    Manitou Mezzer Official Service Guide

    Here is the official Manitou Mezzer Service Schedule.

    • 25hrs - Add 7cc (each leg)
    • 50hrs - full bath change (15cc), seal lubrication.
    • 75hr - Add 7cc (each leg)
    • 100hrs Ė half service (oil bath change, air spring lube)
    • 125hrs - Add 7cc (each leg)
    • 150hrs - full bath change (15cc), seal lubrication.
    • 175hr - Add 7cc (each leg)
    • 200hrs Ė Full service (seal/foam ring change, oil bath change, Damper oil change, air spring seal change)


    You can run 20cc of bath oil to skip the 25/75/125/175 hour intermediate top-ups. But it will make the fork noisier.

    Factory Oil Spec:
    Bath Oil: Manitou Semibath (Motorex 5W40 Powersynt)
    Damper Oil: Maxima 5wt (similar to 85-150)
    Seal Grease: Slickoleum (aka Slick Honey)

    Foot nut torque spec:
    30-40 in-lb (3.5-4.5Nm).
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  174. #374
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Any issues with the reverse arch and compatibility with racks that use the front wheel hook-style clamp (like my Kuat Sherpa)?

    I've always clamped it with the hook slightly braced against the arch on my current fork and it dawned on me last night when loading the bike that the arch won't be there anymore and the stanchions might be exposed to the clamp.
    I have a bunch of bikes with Manitou forks that I transport with my NV2. No issues

  175. #375
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    488
    Don't think I've tried so hard to buy a set of forks so unsuccessfully lol

    I bought them from Manitou last night only to check my emails this morning to see they had refunded me for the purchase! The 44mm offset are only available from the Manitou website so they aren't making it easy...

  176. #376
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    I managed to get a 1000ml of Supergliss 100k from Europe on the way, so I'll give that a shot as soon as it shows up, as I'm close to or over the 50hr interval.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    You can run 20cc of bath oil to skip the 25/75/125/175 hour intermediate top-ups. But it will make the fork noisier.
    I've been running 20cc since I got it and I don't think it's that noisy, then again I'm coming from pretty noisy forks.

    Any idea when the service instructions (e.g. bleed) will be available? The 200hr service doesn't require new bladder & damper seals?

  177. #377
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I have a bunch of bikes with Manitou forks that I transport with my NV2. No issues
    Good to hear.. thanks.

  178. #378
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Don't think I've tried so hard to buy a set of forks so unsuccessfully lol

    I bought them from Manitou last night only to check my emails this morning to see they had refunded me for the purchase! The 44mm offset are only available from the Manitou website so they aren't making it easy...
    That sucks.. mine are out for delivery today. Took Universal like a week to ship because they said I got the last fork and it had to be transferred to their Sparks, NV location.

  179. #379
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Fork arrived today. It's a beast!

    I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.

    Are there any videos or instructions on how to do the travel change? Didn't see any Mezzer docs on Manitou's site.

    A couple of initial observations.
    There seems to be a bit of stiction. Just tried pressing own on the the fork, there is resistance then the breakaway. cycling the fork makes it go away but after leaving it a few minutes it sticks again. I've left the fork upside down for a while to see if that improves it. I know it's a new fork and will need to bed in. Changing the travel will give me the opportunity to check the oil levels and grease the seals and bushing. I'm hoping it isn't an issue.
    Some of the decals were not fully pressed down around all their edges. Just had to run my thumb over all the edges to push them down. No big deal.

    Looking forward to giving it a good ride this weekend.
    Pole Evolink 140

  180. #380
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Fork arrived today. It's a beast!

    I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.

    Are there any videos or instructions on how to do the travel change? Didn't see any Mezzer docs on Manitou's site.

    A couple of initial observations.
    There seems to be a bit of stiction. Just tried pressing own on the the fork, there is resistance then the breakaway. cycling the fork makes it go away but after leaving it a few minutes it sticks again. I've left the fork upside down for a while to see if that improves it. I know it's a new fork and will need to bed in. Changing the travel will give me the opportunity to check the oil levels and grease the seals and bushing. I'm hoping it isn't an issue.
    Some of the decals were not fully pressed down around all their edges. Just had to run my thumb over all the edges to push them down. No big deal.

    Looking forward to giving it a good ride this weekend.
    Waiting for your impression :-)

  181. #381
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    187
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Fork arrived today. It's a beast!

    I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.

    Are there any videos or instructions on how to do the travel change? Didn't see any Mezzer docs on Manitou's site.

    A couple of initial observations.
    There seems to be a bit of stiction. Just tried pressing own on the the fork, there is resistance then the breakaway. cycling the fork makes it go away but after leaving it a few minutes it sticks again. I've left the fork upside down for a while to see if that improves it. I know it's a new fork and will need to bed in. Changing the travel will give me the opportunity to check the oil levels and grease the seals and bushing. I'm hoping it isn't an issue.
    Some of the decals were not fully pressed down around all their edges. Just had to run my thumb over all the edges to push them down. No big deal.

    Looking forward to giving it a good ride this weekend.
    Follow Manitou mattoc procedures. The only difference is foot nuts on the mezzer and bath oil level.
    You will need mattoc cassette tool

  182. #382
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    Follow Manitou mattoc procedures. The only difference is foot nuts on the mezzer and bath oil level.
    You will need mattoc cassette tool
    Thanks. Just looked at it and it seems pretty straight forward.

    Any reason why I couldn't just drill out a 12mm hole in a normal cassette tool instead of cutting a slot in it? It would seem easier to do. I'd obviously have to make sure all the burrs are removed and not to scratch the rod when sliding the tool down the air spring rod.
    Pole Evolink 140

  183. #383
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    Got mine yesterday as well.

    Installed it late last night after rebuilding my front wheel with a boost hub.

    It definitely has a presence, my non-boost Lyrik looks like a little bitch next to it.

    The shaping they did with the crown and lowers for weight reduction is really impressive and attractive in person.

    All adjusters have a great quality feel to them, physically and with solid tactile clicks.

    The front brake cable retainer doesn't clamp the cable like other forks I've used. It retains it but the cable can slip freely through. I'm not a huge fan of this but we'll see if it causes problems. I may add some tape to the cable to increase diameter.

    I dig the axle system.. seems really solid and fit/finish is nice.

    I weigh probably ~215 geared up so I pressurized IRT and main chambers to the 200lb/170mm spec and set the damper to the light side of the trail tuning recommendations.

    Feels FIRM. I also notice that off the top "sticking" that trail blazer mentioned intially after sitting. My Lyrik has always done this and it's never been an issue in use though.

    A quick pedal around the cul-de-sac and a couple of curb smashes is all of the riding I did. Really firm and supportive feel.. so different than my RCT3 Lyrik. Seems like it might be a bit too much pressure and the rebound is probably too quick, but I'll try these settings on the trail later today as a starting point.

  184. #384
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Fork arrived today. It's a beast!

    I'll need to reduce the travel down to 160mm tomorrow and then ride it.

    Are there any videos or instructions on how to do the travel change? Didn't see any Mezzer docs on Manitou's site.

    A couple of initial observations.
    There seems to be a bit of stiction. Just tried pressing own on the the fork, there is resistance then the breakaway. cycling the fork makes it go away but after leaving it a few minutes it sticks again.
    That's been typical for me with every fork I've owned except the Helm and Auron. It doesn't feel at all sticky when riding, I'd assume that's just stiction from the rubber wiper seals on the stanchion, could be wrong though.

    I usually flip my bike upside down and let it rest for a bit while I get ready, that seems to do away with that initial breakaway stiction also.

    If you are in WNC, Squatch has the tools and knowledge to do the travel change, if you'd rather not do it yourself.

  185. #385
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    I managed to get a 1000ml of Supergliss 100k from Europe on the way, so I'll give that a shot as soon as it shows up, as I'm close to or over the 50hr interval.
    Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.
    Pole Evolink 140

  186. #386
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.
    20dollars for overseas shipping of something as big as a fork is a lot??? I paid 10euro for brake pads and I live less than 1000km from the store ffs.

  187. #387
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    20dollars for overseas shipping of something as big as a fork is a lot??? I paid 10euro for brake pads and I live less than 1000km from the store ffs.
    It's not a fork, it's a liter of oil I was talking about so read what I wrote and wind it back a little ;-)

    And I have no real complaint about the shipping as such, was just asking where he bought his from so I could compare. No sense in paying more than I have to.
    Pole Evolink 140

  188. #388
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.
    Bike24, but I think I got the last bottle and shipping is about the same cost. I bought Michelin tires with it, since they are considerably cheaper in the EU, to help mitigate the shipping cost.

    The only place I can find 32k or 64k is via Dougal, I'll probably try to get some 32k for winter. Temps here shouldn't drop below 40 until December though...at least I hope not. I expect I'll be alright with smaller quantities of 32k since our temps are in that 5c-30c+ range a lot more than they are in the -5c to 20c range, and my riding in the winter scales back some.

  189. #389
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    It's not a fork, it's a liter of oil I was talking about so read what I wrote and wind it back a little ;-)

    And I have no real complaint about the shipping as such, was just asking where he bought his from so I could compare. No sense in paying more than I have to.
    It wasnīt showing the quotation before so it seems like you were replying to the ganderson. Sorry if that came out the wrong way Iīm just used to paying quite high postage whenever I buy something from Germany, no matter the size or value most stores will charge 10euro or more. If I was you I would buy it from Dougal though, 1 liter is just waste in my opinion unless you share it with someone else or few people actually. Or change lower leg lubrication every 10h.

  190. #390
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by ghostbiker View Post
    It wasnīt showing the quotation before so it seems like you were replying to the ganderson. Sorry if that came out the wrong way Iīm just used to paying quite high postage whenever I buy something from Germany, no matter the size or value most stores will charge 10euro or more. If I was you I would buy it from Dougal though, 1 liter is just waste in my opinion unless you share it with someone else or few people actually. Or change lower leg lubrication every 10h.
    No worries. I hear your frustration with the German shipping costs. I'm sure it's intentional to encourage you load up more items to mitigate the shipping costs.
    Pole Evolink 140

  191. #391
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Don't think I've tried so hard to buy a set of forks so unsuccessfully lol

    I bought them from Manitou last night only to check my emails this morning to see they had refunded me for the purchase! The 44mm offset are only available from the Manitou website so they aren't making it easy...
    Update on my attempted fork purchase.

    Manitou contacted me with an apology and a offer for a fork I couldn't refuse which I jumped on! Fork should start its journey to me tomorrow. Stoked to get this :-)

    In the space of time between the refund and the new purchase I also bought a custom Avalanche damper for my Lyrik so a direct comparison on the two top end air forks on the same bike is coming! If the Mezzer turns out to be better than the Avalanche tuned Lyrik that'll be stepped up with a smashpot and compared again but I think my front suspension wants and needs are comprehensively covered ;-)

    Dougal, I'm not sure if you had anything to do with Manitou contacting me but if you did thanks.

  192. #392
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Undescended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    Which vendor did you get it from?I looked at a couple and they wouldn't ship to the US. So only found bike-components.de that will ship but $20 shipping.
    Contact the US distributor. Dude I spoke to was knowledgeable of the use of Supergliss in bike forks and said heíd sell it direct.

    https://eurolineusa.com/category/motorex-products/

  193. #393
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Undescended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by trail-blazer View Post
    No worries. I hear your frustration with the German shipping costs. I'm sure it's intentional to encourage you load up more items to mitigate the shipping costs.
    Exactly, on Starbike shipping for a King Can is $27, add on a McLeod drops it to $16, add on a Mattoc drops it to $9.

  194. #394
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    In the space of time between the refund and the new purchase I also bought a custom Avalanche damper for my Lyrik so a direct comparison on the two top end air forks on the same bike is coming! If the Mezzer turns out to be better than the Avalanche tuned Lyrik that'll be stepped up with a smashpot and compared again but I think my front suspension wants and needs are comprehensively covered ;-)
    just my $0.02
    DSD Runt with the Avy damper on a Lyrik is feeling pretty good to me. Quite a bit lighter than the smashpot, but so far has made the spring quite a bit better. But it's still 200g heavier than the Mezzer...

    FWIW, with the Avy damper I dropped compression and rebound 2 clicks and was quite surprised how much of an impact it had. The recommended rebound damping was slower than where I was on the HC97 (recommended setting). Just wish Avy would put knobs on their damper and do black instead of gold anodizing. Kind of ridiculous to need a custom screw driver to adjust the compression damping and the gold is so ugly.

  195. #395
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    488
    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    just my $0.02
    DSD Runt with the Avy damper on a Lyrik is feeling pretty good to me. Quite a bit lighter than the smashpot, but so far has made the spring quite a bit better. But it's still 200g heavier than the Mezzer...

    FWIW, with the Avy damper I dropped compression and rebound 2 clicks and was quite surprised how much of an impact it had. The recommended rebound damping was slower than where I was on the HC97 (recommended setting). Just wish Avy would put knobs on their damper and do black instead of gold anodizing. Kind of ridiculous to need a custom screw driver to adjust the compression damping and the gold is so ugly.
    lol funny you mention that, I asked if he could anodize the cap black

  196. #396
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    Iíve got a couple rides on the fork, but first.. Bike Rack:

    As I mentioned above Iím using a Kuat Sherpa 2.0. Like many other racks of this type it gets itís security from clamping into the intersection between the fork and wheel.


    If you are not more or less touching the fork it leaves room for the hook to potentially disengage from the wheel and lose clamping tension. On the Mezzer this means touching the stanchions (not ok) or compressing the hook into the tire enough to kind of catch a little of the lowers with the hook.



    IMO this isnít an ideal rack design for a reverse arch fork and Iíll be replacing it with something like the 1up or constantly worrying about it... bummer.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  197. #397
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    21
    Just turn handlebars 180 so the hook will be up against the arch. This is what many have to do with normal forks but the newer long bikes that are too long for many bike racks.

  198. #398
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    4,595
    Quote Originally Posted by Ganderson View Post
    Iíve got a couple rides on the fork, but first.. Bike Rack:

    As I mentioned above Iím using a Kuat Sherpa 2.0. Like many other racks of this type it gets itís security from clamping into the intersection between the fork and wheel.


    If you are not more or less touching the fork it leaves room for the hook to potentially disengage from the wheel and lose clamping tension. On the Mezzer this means touching the stanchions (not ok) or compressing the hook into the tire enough to kind of catch a little of the lowers with the hook.



    IMO this isnít an ideal rack design for a reverse arch fork and Iíll be replacing it with something like the 1up or constantly worrying about it... bummer.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I'm not sure about the Sherpa. My NV arm is coated in rubber. I push it down hard against the stanchions for the last 4 years with zero issues with any of my Manitou forks. Stanchions are perfect. If your worried about it you can put a rag in-between the arm and the fork.

    Manitou Mezzer-img_20190908_104353.jpg

  199. #399
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    381
    The Sherpa has the rubberized hooks too. Interesting to see your going right up against the stanchions with no issues.

    I may try a piece of material in between like you suggested, felt or something.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  200. #400
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    44
    would be nice if one of you mezzer wizards made a youtube vid of taking fork apart, adding oil, reassembling fork, etc.. I cannot figure out what that nice Italian man was saying in the video. And he was so clean..made me suspicious that he wasn't a real mechanic.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Manitou Mezzer Long Travel fork spotted at Sea Otter
    By Dougal in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 05-06-2019, 08:59 AM
  2. Manitou Minute vs Manitou R7?
    By Numbtoyou in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 04-19-2015, 04:25 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-20-2013, 09:02 PM
  4. Will my Manitou Air reducers fit a Manitou Coil?
    By ixi in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-11-2005, 10:05 AM
  5. Manitou Black vs Manitou Splice?
    By CircuitMan in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-28-2005, 10:59 AM

Members who have read this thread: 629

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.