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  1. #2201
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    If your pump leaks a bit, it's likely the o-ring in the swivel part or the o-ring that seals against the schrader valve. It's uually not an issue on new pumps, but with some use, I've had a couple different pumps start leaking a bit. It can help too lube the o-rings a bit. That small leak makes a big difference on small volumes (IRT and negative chambers like the Mezzer).

    A lot of pumps are just rebranded versions, not sure who the original maker is though. I found a cheap $15 mechanical pump on Amazon that had a hose with a zero leak valve and was able to take that hose off and put it on my more expensive digital gauge.
    Thanks guys. Yep the pump is leaking a tiny bit from the swivel, but I was more referring to the air loss when disconnecting from the +/- chamber (trying to do it quickly!). e.g. I can pump it up to say 45psi, disconnect it, reconnect it and it displays 38psi.

    The pump is advertised as loss free connection but that doesnt seem to work (red products shockmaster pro pump- same as the Rockshox one but with a different hose)

    Thanks also for the suggestion, I'll take a look into the syncros pump

  2. #2202
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicy View Post
    I can pump it up to say 45psi, disconnect it, reconnect it and it displays 38psi.
    That's pretty typical, you always read low on reconnection because the hose and gauge need to refill before you get a reading. It should be consistent, though. Try it both slow and fast and see if there is a difference, that will help show if you are really losing air from the chamber or just from the hose and fittings.

  3. #2203
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Just prime riding season right now so don't really want to open it up right now. Although, I might pull it off and swap back to the Lyrik, I've changed bars and stem recently too. Wouldn't hurt to revisit where I think I was at anyway and could did into the Mezzer then.

    Am I right in thinking the Avy cartridge is more of a poppet system blended with shim stacks?

    The mid valve (second picture) has a spring loaded check plate with free float being petty limited. Seems like it's going to blow off like a poppet until the check plate reaches the spring cup, then it will preform like a more conventional shim stack with free float?

    I also have the FvAT/HSB (first picture) which appears to act in a similar fashion but in the basevalve side?

    It's making the gears turn on trying to figure out a way to implement something similar in the Mezzer.
    Mezzer mid-valve setup is a spring washer setup with a decent amount of stroke. Very different to the Avalanche setup you've shown. There is a little bit of room to run different mid-valve setups in the Mezzer but you need to do some custom machining.
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  4. #2204
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    I was thinking more on the basevalve. I haven't had it apart, just looking at the pictures so I could be missing something pretty obvious. My thought though is to use shims with a larger ID so the whole stack could float on the shaft. Then have the HSC spring sit against a washer that floated on the shaft and applied preload to the floating shim stack. Low/mid speed would still be controlled by the shims but then the whole stack could blow off at high speeds.

    I could see how the mid-valve having the setup though might make for better LSC without harshness though as more fluid has to move through it.

  5. #2205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velodonata View Post
    That's pretty typical, you always read low on reconnection because the hose and gauge need to refill before you get a reading. It should be consistent, though. Try it both slow and fast and see if there is a difference, that will help show if you are really losing air from the chamber or just from the hose and fittings.
    I just swapped the hose with the one on my analogue RS pump (which has a longer threaded connector) and it's much better, seems like a much more normal amount of air escaping as I unthread it!

  6. #2206
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    I was thinking more on the basevalve. I haven't had it apart, just looking at the pictures so I could be missing something pretty obvious. My thought though is to use shims with a larger ID so the whole stack could float on the shaft. Then have the HSC spring sit against a washer that floated on the shaft and applied preload to the floating shim stack. Low/mid speed would still be controlled by the shims but then the whole stack could blow off at high speeds.

    I could see how the mid-valve having the setup though might make for better LSC without harshness though as more fluid has to move through it.
    I don't see that solving any problems. Preloaded basevalves IMO feel awful.

    It'll take you half an hour to pull the whole damper out the top and get to the base-valve. Remove one of the doubled up shims, reassemble and rebleed.
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  7. #2207
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Rode 30 miles and about 9k vertical ft of desert this weekend and by the end I had given up on trying to get support out of this fork and was just trying to keep my hands from hurting. Full open on HSC and like 8 clicks out on LSC. 60/93psi @180mm/215lbs. Had about 25mm of unused travel. Also raised the bars some so it didn't feel so low up front with the lack of support.



    Full open HSC and 8 clicks out LSC will not give you much low speed damping at all.

    I would try it with HSC 1-2 clicks in, from open, and LSC ~2 clicks out from closed. With it set there, I would play with different main/IRT pressure combinations to get a good feel of support, with appropriate bottom out prevention.

    You mentioned also changing your stem and bars, which can have a huge impact on how your hands feel. Maybe it is worth running your Lyric with the new bars to recalibrate. It would be a shame to blame the Mezzer for things your bars are doing. I really like the OneUp carbon bars. They are stiff in steering and compliant for bumps.

  8. #2208
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    CCS, from earlier posts I was running a lot more HSC and LSC. Agreed on swapping back to the Lyrik and rebaselining. I definitely try to give parts a fair chance. Even revalving the Mezzer is fair in my mind.

    I swapped to the OneUp carbon bars (35mm rise), from raceface SixC carbon bars (20mm rise). I removed two spacers from under the stem. Also went from a 32mm stem to 40mm stem. In all, went up 5mm and forward about 14mm. The OneUp and SixC bars have the same angles to them so should feel similar in general.

  9. #2209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I don't see that solving any problems. Preloaded basevalves IMO feel awful.

    It'll take you half an hour to pull the whole damper out the top and get to the base-valve. Remove one of the doubled up shims, reassemble and rebleed.
    The Mezzer has a preloaded basevalve? That's what the HSC spring is doing, adding preload.

    I think to make it match the Avy basevalve though, there would need to be a travel limiter with what I mentioned above, so it can only blow off so much, then at higher speeds, the shim stack comes into play.

  10. #2210
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    Have you checked that the fork can go trough all the travel without problems?
    Therefore use very low pressure and fully compress it.

    Im a tad heavier ~230lbs and run 74psi/104psi at 170mm. HSC closed and heavier shimstack, lsc half closed.
    The original compression damping is very soft on the mezzer, even full closed.

    Maybe you ride to much on the back, there not enoug weight on the handlebars or your impacts are just not heavy enough for using the complete travel. The mezzer doesnt waste its travel due to the irt system.

  11. #2211
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    Symion, yeah, I don't disagree with what you are saying. If you look back to my previous posts in here, you'll see I was running MUCH firmer damping (HSC-2/LSC-1 from closed) to try and get support. While it gets decent support like that, it was beating the hell out of my hands. Over the 30 miles, I kept reducing compression damping to try and make it more compliant to avoid hand pain. In all honesty, I didn't mean to run HSC fully open, I think I grabbed it instead of the LSC adjuster at some point in the ride. The last 5 miles or so I had found a point that wasn't hurting my hands and I stopped messing with it. It was only at the end of the ride I realized HSC was full open.

    The entire ride I felt like I had too much weight up front though as it kept diving and just got worse as I opened it up. With the higher travel and raised bar height though, it wasn't terrible feeling. I could deal with it as is right now, but I know what a better fork feels like so I'm trying to figure out how to make the Mezzer feel like my Lyrik. Not to beat a dead horse, but my Lyrik has an Avy cartridge tuned for my weight and riding style, a Runt to mimic the IRT, low friction seals, burnished bushings and is well maintained. It's not a standard Lyrik I'm making the comparison to, it's a $1600 beast of an air fork and the only thing that could truly beat it would probably be adding a coil setup or going dual crown on top of those parts.

  12. #2212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    The Mezzer has a preloaded basevalve? That's what the HSC spring is doing, adding preload.

    I think to make it match the Avy basevalve though, there would need to be a travel limiter with what I mentioned above, so it can only blow off so much, then at higher speeds, the shim stack comes into play.
    The Mezzer basevalve is only preloaded with the higher HSC settings. I don't run those. I run a shim-stack that does what I need.

    Running two different modes usually gives you an ugly transition between them.
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  13. #2213
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    CCS, from earlier posts I was running a lot more HSC and LSC. Agreed on swapping back to the Lyrik and rebaselining. I definitely try to give parts a fair chance. Even revalving the Mezzer is fair in my mind.

    I swapped to the OneUp carbon bars (35mm rise), from raceface SixC carbon bars (20mm rise). I removed two spacers from under the stem. Also went from a 32mm stem to 40mm stem. In all, went up 5mm and forward about 14mm. The OneUp and SixC bars have the same angles to them so should feel similar in general.
    When I went from 35 mm stem to 60 my fork (not mezzer back then) immediately needed more air as i guess you are putting more weight over the wheel or smth. You only added 14 mm but may still be noticeable, as in your next post say the fork feels divey. Maybe a few psi will put you there

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    Romulin, the fork felt divey before I changed the bars too. But yeah, rebaseling with there old fork is probably where I need to start.

    Dougal, wouldn't softening the shim stack for HSC also make for less LSC? Because even with LSC closed completely, the fork feels too soft without closing HSC to the second click from closed.

  15. #2215
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    I have been playing with compression damping lately, getting some miles in with the HSC at +2 from open and LSC around -4, with some combinations in that neighborhood. Today, I put it back to HSC wide open, LSC full closed, and I just prefer it that way. Maybe we just all have very different personal preference for feel, riding style, and terrain. With it set this way (and maybe some extra LSC damping from Supergliss 100k), it feels super plush, but still supportive. I launch this thing off big drops, dive down steep, chunky trails, rail around berms, and it feels composed, supportive, and plush.

  16. #2216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Stock compression shims:
    8x20x0.1, 8x17.5x0.1,78x17.5x0.1, 8x11x0.5mm
    Hey Dougal, can you confirm if I've read your comp shim stack correctly:

    1, 8mm (ID) x 20mm (OD) x 0.1mm (thick)

    1, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm

    7, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm - This can't be right...

    1, 8mm x 11mm x 0.5mm - This is the HSC shim...is that 0.5 correct?

    Seems like a pretty easy HSC fix if that 8 x 11 is really 0.5mm thick.

    Is that single 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo, or the 7, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo?
    OR
    Did you mean there are 2, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1?

    Lastly, when you took apart the comp stack, did you also take apart and document the rebound stack also?

    Thanks in advance.

  17. #2217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight70 View Post
    Hey Dougal, can you confirm if I've read your comp shim stack correctly:

    1, 8mm (ID) x 20mm (OD) x 0.1mm (thick)

    1, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm

    7, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm - This can't be right...

    1, 8mm x 11mm x 0.5mm - This is the HSC shim...is that 0.5 correct?

    Seems like a pretty easy HSC fix if that 8 x 11 is really 0.5mm thick.

    Is that single 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo, or the 7, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo?
    OR
    Did you mean there are 2, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1?

    Lastly, when you took apart the comp stack, did you also take apart and document the rebound stack also?

    Thanks in advance.
    There are two 17.5mm shims. These are stacked and they are curved. I just removed one of them and literally got back from the first test ride and I am so impressed with the difference.

    Fork now reacts much better to high speed impacts, really supple, and that slightly harsh feeling that I have been trying to dial out has gone too. In hindsight I don't think the fork was reacting quickly enough on chatter so I it was skipping over terrain. Ok to begin with but as the ride went on and I tired I found this skipping trait to feel exacerbated and at times difficult to manage the speed it needed to work. Now it feels like how I like a fork to feel, plenty of support from the chassis and enough LSC to hold it up when braking and it freely uses its travel appropriately with zero harshness.

    Now my EXT shock feels like it has too much HSC lol

  18. #2218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight70 View Post
    Hey Dougal, can you confirm if I've read your comp shim stack correctly:

    1, 8mm (ID) x 20mm (OD) x 0.1mm (thick)

    1, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm

    7, 8mm x 17.5mm x 0.1mm - This can't be right...

    1, 8mm x 11mm x 0.5mm - This is the HSC shim...is that 0.5 correct?

    Seems like a pretty easy HSC fix if that 8 x 11 is really 0.5mm thick.

    Is that single 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo, or the 7, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 a typo?
    OR
    Did you mean there are 2, 8 x 17.5 x 0.1?

    Lastly, when you took apart the comp stack, did you also take apart and document the rebound stack also?

    Thanks in advance.
    That's a typo, I guess only one person read it close enough to realise!

    Stock was 2x 17.5mm shims. At some point (I don't know when) they removed 1x 17.5mm shim to cut the HSC down.

    I had revalved my fork early on to give slightly more compression damping than the new setup.
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  19. #2219
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Romulin, the fork felt divey before I changed the bars too. But yeah, rebaseling with there old fork is probably where I need to start.

    Dougal, wouldn't softening the shim stack for HSC also make for less LSC? Because even with LSC closed completely, the fork feels too soft without closing HSC to the second click from closed.
    Yes a softer HSC stack gives you less LSC range. But it also lets you run more spring-rate which was probably compromised earlier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by springs View Post
    There are two 17.5mm shims. These are stacked and they are curved. I just removed one of them and literally got back from the first test ride and I am so impressed with the difference.

    Fork now reacts much better to high speed impacts, really supple, and that slightly harsh feeling that I have been trying to dial out has gone too. In hindsight I don't think the fork was reacting quickly enough on chatter so I it was skipping over terrain. Ok to begin with but as the ride went on and I tired I found this skipping trait to feel exacerbated and at times difficult to manage the speed it needed to work. Now it feels like how I like a fork to feel, plenty of support from the chassis and enough LSC to hold it up when braking and it freely uses its travel appropriately with zero harshness.
    Springs, thanks for this! "Curved?" Do you mean it has a dish? If so, is the dish to help w/ that preloading lipped washer/spring seat or to fight against what that preloading lip is doing to that 20mm shim?

    Maybe just a bit of deets on you...your riding style and the bike you have it on? What's your wheels-down weight? Was your first ride on smooth or chunk, flat or steep, up and down or just shuttled, or a combo of all so you can gauge the effort you made on your fork? How old are you and do/did you used to race...basically, what's your skill level...so I'd have a clue how hard you can push a fork.

    Thanks again!

  21. #2221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That's a typo, I guess only one person read it close enough to realise!

    Stock was 2x 17.5mm shims. At some point (I don't know when) they removed 1x 17.5mm shim to cut the HSC down.
    Hey Dougal! Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it was the enginerd OCD in me doing the reading

    So...what did you mean by "they removed...?" Do you mean the base tune coming from Manitou is now only 1, 20x0.1 and 1, 17.5x0.1 instead of 2, 17.5s that you posted from Jan or Feb? Is this found on MY21 forks, or just later builds of MY20 forks? I'm seeing they (Manitou) now has 29er/44mmOS back in stock...have you taken one of these since the restocking apart yet?

    Thanks again.

  22. #2222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight70 View Post
    Hey Dougal! Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it was the enginerd OCD in me doing the reading

    So...what did you mean by "they removed...?" Do you mean the base tune coming from Manitou is now only 1, 20x0.1 and 1, 17.5x0.1 instead of 2, 17.5s that you posted from Jan or Feb? Is this found on MY21 forks, or just later builds of MY20 forks? I'm seeing they (Manitou) now has 29er/44mmOS back in stock...have you taken one of these since the restocking apart yet?

    Thanks again.
    Yes that's exactly the change, but I don't know when they did it. I can't help with serial number or date change.

    I've had some 29" 44OS through. But I tend to not pull new forks apart that far. We'll pull a new one of those into our demo fleet shortly (just clearing out last seasons). I might get a chance then.
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  23. #2223
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    If you've ever gotten your IRT cap a little too tight...


  24. #2224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes that's exactly the change, but I don't know when they did it. I can't help with serial number or date change.

    I've had some 29" 44OS through. But I tend to not pull new forks apart that far. We'll pull a new one of those into our demo fleet shortly (just clearing out last seasons). I might get a chance then.
    Thanks for the clarification on the change. So by that then, the MY21 forks should be damn near perfect if they've addressed the bushing slop issue. Sound like I'll prob have pull the trigger and bought one before you've had the chance to pull one apart.

  25. #2225
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    Manitou Mezzer

    Quote Originally Posted by springs View Post
    There are two 17.5mm shims. These are stacked and they are curved. I just removed one of them and literally got back from the first test ride and I am so impressed with the difference.

    Fork now reacts much better to high speed impacts, really supple, and that slightly harsh feeling that I have been trying to dial out has gone too. In hindsight I don't think the fork was reacting quickly enough on chatter so I it was skipping over terrain. Ok to begin with but as the ride went on and I tired I found this skipping trait to feel exacerbated and at times difficult to manage the speed it needed to work. Now it feels like how I like a fork to feel, plenty of support from the chassis and enough LSC to hold it up when braking and it freely uses its travel appropriately with zero harshness.

    Now my EXT shock feels like it has too much HSC lol
    Decided to take a crack removing extra hsc shim since I think it may help solve my harshness issue, and I have a spare busted damper to experiment on.

    When the assembly came out of the damper it fell apart a bit unexpectedly, so I just want to make sure I have this assembled correctly.

    Also, any tips on how to get the bladder seated back into the base?

    Thanks again everyone! This thread is amazing.

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    Anyone like to have a crack at explaining what they think removing one of these curved shims out the stack would achieve?

    Next question would be what would it achieve if one was removed and the curved shim was flipped so that the shim above was effectively folding over it?

    Manitou Mezzer-manitou_mezzer-shims.jpg

  27. #2227
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    Springs, best I can tell, that's not a shim. That's the compression check spring.

    CCS86, I don't disagree that HSC open, LSC closed feels the best. It just doesn't really have enough LSC though, that's why I tried more HSC so it brings the LSC knee higher up. It gets some of that extra support but also comes with a bunch more harshness. Ride this weekend, on the slow tech I ran HSC at 2. Once it opened up and speeds picked up, I ran HSC at 4 (full open). Felt fine like this, just use to a fork that does both without changing settings mid ride.

    Elsinore, that order doesn't look right. My post #2019 above has the complete basevalve disassembled. The shim layout is on the bottom. I didn't take that picture, but it looks like what I'd expect.

    Dougal, going back here. What I was suggesting before actually wouldn't be a preloaded basevalve at all anyway. It wouldn't be preloading the shims. It would be controlling the shim clamping load. The shims would flex initially like completely non-preloaded shims. Once your differential pressure overcame the spring force though, the clamp shim would move and allow the entire shim stack to move away from the face of the valve. This should make for substantially more flow area. I could see how this might cause some flutter though. But the simple fact remains, the Avy cartridge seems to work in a similar manner and it kicks the crap out of this damper. It does it on the mid-valve and the basevalve though and it also has some additional features that would impact the behavior.

  28. #2228
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    Quote Originally Posted by springs View Post
    Anyone like to have a crack at explaining what they think removing one of these curved shims out the stack would achieve?

    Next question would be what would it achieve if one was removed and the curved shim was flipped so that the shim above was effectively folding over it?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Removing one will likely give you soft and inconsistent closing. Too soft closing can mean it slams shut on change of direction and creates a knock.

    I do arrange them so the check shim can fold over.
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  29. #2229
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Springs, best I can tell, that's not a shim. That's the compression check spring.

    CCS86, I don't disagree that HSC open, LSC closed feels the best. It just doesn't really have enough LSC though, that's why I tried more HSC so it brings the LSC knee higher up. It gets some of that extra support but also comes with a bunch more harshness. Ride this weekend, on the slow tech I ran HSC at 2. Once it opened up and speeds picked up, I ran HSC at 4 (full open). Felt fine like this, just use to a fork that does both without changing settings mid ride.

    Elsinore, that order doesn't look right. My post #2019 above has the complete basevalve disassembled. The shim layout is on the bottom. I didn't take that picture, but it looks like what I'd expect.

    Dougal, going back here. What I was suggesting before actually wouldn't be a preloaded basevalve at all anyway. It wouldn't be preloading the shims. It would be controlling the shim clamping load. The shims would flex initially like completely non-preloaded shims. Once your differential pressure overcame the spring force though, the clamp shim would move and allow the entire shim stack to move away from the face of the valve. This should make for substantially more flow area. I could see how this might cause some flutter though. But the simple fact remains, the Avy cartridge seems to work in a similar manner and it kicks the crap out of this damper. It does it on the mid-valve and the basevalve though and it also has some additional features that would impact the behavior.
    Okay that makes sense. That gives you a softer knee effect than a poppet or edge pre-loaded shim. You'd need to run a firmer stack and modify the whole compression assembly to acheive that.

    Avalanche need to use a firmer mid-valve because open bath runs in an oil foam that is slightly compressible. The base-valves in that situation can't deliver expected damping force from small displacements in that foam but a mid-valve can. In a cartridge damper you've got solid oil so the base-valve can do what it should.

    My opinion is that once you have the right amount of HSC compression damping, you can run the right spring-rate and you don't need as much LSC as you think you need when battling a base-tune mis-match.

    The amount of damping in the first year Mezzer was about 20% more than I wanted and I compromised spring-rate to get the response I needed. With a revalve it does exactly what it should.
    I'm now a bit firmer on compression than the 1-less-shim tune.

    I ride on choppy terrain where any knee formed damper curve feels awful.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  30. #2230
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    Just received my Mezzer and really stoked to get this thing setup.

    I tipped the lower slightly and dumped a bit of oil during a travel height adjustment. I figured I should just replace the oil in the lowers at this point.

    I do have Supergliss 100K (thanks Dougal!) available now or I can get the Motorex 5W40 locally. California winter upcoming, will be riding in ~5-23C for a few months.

    What is the recommended oil?

    If I do switch over should I just top off with 20cc or thoroughly clean out then refill?

  31. #2231
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraxFactory View Post
    Just received my Mezzer and really stoked to get this thing setup.

    I tipped the lower slightly and dumped a bit of oil during a travel height adjustment. I figured I should just replace the oil in the lowers at this point.

    I do have Supergliss 100K (thanks Dougal!) available now or I can get the Motorex 5W40 locally. California winter upcoming, will be riding in ~5-23C for a few months.

    What is the recommended oil?

    If I do switch over should I just top off with 20cc or thoroughly clean out then refill?
    Unless you lost all the oil, just run it. Change it after a few weeks break-in.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  32. #2232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Unless you lost all the oil, just run it. Change it after a few weeks break-in.
    Dang, that makes a lot of sense. I would say it pissed out a good 10cc, Unfortunately I grabbed the oil pan and let them drain out.

    Get the 5w40, then switch over to SG100k after break in?

  33. #2233
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraxFactory View Post
    Dang, that makes a lot of sense. I would say it pissed out a good 10cc, Unfortunately I grabbed the oil pan and let them drain out.

    Get the 5w40, then switch over to SG100k after break in?
    Yeah.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  34. #2234
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    Finally-- I got replacement Mezzer (#2) for defective #1-- I was told by the retailer that #1 had the latest castings -- and it did have a green handwritten"B" on the label-- which I found out doesn't mean much. months Rode #1 at 180mm at assorted pressures some at recommended spec but mostly 10 -15psi less . with fully opened lsc/hsc /rebound -- did this for 2 months hoping the fork would eventually break in.-- all the time the fork basically sucked.
    Took it apart and found out that there was a ton of stiction/friction between the air piston ring and the inside of the stanchion. Sent the fork to Manitou and it turns out I had the older defective casting after all. Because of this the air spring piston was scratching the inside of the stanchion. Waited about 6 week and #2 arrived yesterday--it was manufactured Aug 2020.
    I put in on and it was magic from the get go!
    plush! plush! and that is even without playing any pressures. hsc/lsc--granted my ride was wasn't for very long-- but the fork already felt leagues better than the defective fork.

  35. #2235
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    Glad they got you sorted!

  36. #2236
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    Quote Originally Posted by locominute View Post
    Took it apart and found out that there was a ton of stiction/friction between the air piston ring and the inside of the stanchion. Sent the fork to Manitou and it turns out I had the older defective casting after all. Because of this the air spring piston was scratching the inside of the stanchion.
    Mind telling me more about this?

    I thought the defective castings were the lowers, but you're talking about the upper CSU.

    I did a travel change when my fork was new and seem to have been struggling with air spring friction. I pulled it apart to schlube 'n lube everything and noticed the grease around the air piston had black crap in it (it was clean Slickoeum when I put it back together).

    Last week, during initial compression (after the bike would sit overnight), there would be a dang squeak/squeal that sounded like dry rubber running across glass or smooth metal. It would loosen up, but the fork would feel like crap until you got it cycling.

    I just pulled the fork apart (again) and lubed the snot out of everything on the air side. IRT shaft & seal, air piston seal, air piston shaft, air piston seal head, etc.

    I even went as far as putting some oil in the IRT, like DSD recommends with their RUNT.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  37. #2237
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Last week, during initial compression (after the bike would sit overnight), there would be a dang squeak/squeal that sounded like dry rubber running across glass or smooth metal. It would loosen up, but the fork would feel like crap until you got it cycling.
    To clarify this... I did a road trip to St George/Hurricane and Moab. The dang air spring friction seemed to get really notchy with the bike sitting over night. Each morning I started connecting my air pump to the main (lower) air valve and cycling the fork a few times, using my chest to push down on the handlebars. That seemed to get everything loosened up and moving again and was enough to get me through the trip.

    I lubed the snot out of the fork yesterday and am riding Angel Fire bike park tomorrow - guess we'll see if I fixed it.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  38. #2238
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Mind telling me more about this?

    I thought the defective castings were the lowers, but you're talking about the upper CSU.

    I did a travel change when my fork was new and seem to have been struggling with air spring friction. I pulled it apart to schlube 'n lube everything and noticed the grease around the air piston had black crap in it (it was clean Slickoeum when I put it back together).

    Last week, during initial compression (after the bike would sit overnight), there would be a dang squeak/squeal that sounded like dry rubber running across glass or smooth metal. It would loosen up, but the fork would feel like crap until you got it cycling.

    I just pulled the fork apart (again) and lubed the snot out of everything on the air side. IRT shaft & seal, air piston seal, air piston shaft, air piston seal head, etc.

    I even went as far as putting some oil in the IRT, like DSD recommends with their RUNT.
    The way Manitou explained it to me is that
    when the lower casting bushings are not properly manufactured it screws up the the alignment inside the stanchions which causes the air spring to be wonky and then scratch the inside of the stanchion
    when I took off the lowers there was still oil and lube
    BUt I added some more oil and I also put in a ton of slick oleum and still the IRT and the air spring were still sticky inside the stanchion.


    This I would find somewhat odd since I would imagine that the IRT would not be affected as much versus lower down from the crown.


    luckily, Mezzer #2 is wonderful from the second I hopped on
    I toyed with the idea of selling Mezzer #2-- so glad I did not.

    btw
    what is the manufacturing date of your fork?

  39. #2239
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    I used to notice a little bit of "judder" on a cold fork. After compressing it maybe 10 times it always smoothed out, so it was never a concern on the trail.

    I recently put maybe 10 drops of Supergliss 100k on top of the air piston and on top of the IRT piston (plenty of Slickoleum already in there, and the judder is gone.

  40. #2240
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    Quote Originally Posted by locominute View Post
    btw
    what is the manufacturing date of your fork?
    Is that on the fork? Or only on the box?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  41. #2241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Removing one will likely give you soft and inconsistent closing. Too soft closing can mean it slams shut on change of direction and creates a knock.

    I do arrange them so the check shim can fold over.
    I removed one of the springs and the difference has been much greater than I was expecting. The stickiness that some have been commenting on, whether it be the quad seal or whatever has almost gone. It feels like the friction has reduced and the fork is now considerably more active over repeated hits which has helped me with hand/arm pain on longer runs.

    The damper was bled correctly prior to the change and I'm using the same 5w Motorex oil so there is no change there, just the removal of one spring holding that check shim. I didn't touch the air side so no new lube/service feeling. I kept pressure the same 92 IRT 52 main, the HSC is 3 from closed, LSC 4 from closed and rebound is 4 from closed. I did have the rebound 7 out from closed but my rear shock (EXT Storia) seems to run slower rebound so I slowed the front to match and it seems to now quite balanced. If anything the Storia now feels like it has too much HSC as it feels a little abrupt on square edge stuff when the bike is around the sag point or higher in its travel but that's another story.

  42. #2242
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    Quote Originally Posted by locominute View Post
    The way Manitou explained it to me is that
    when the lower casting bushings are not properly manufactured it screws up the the alignment inside the stanchions which causes the air spring to be wonky and then scratch the inside of the stanchion
    when I took off the lowers there was still oil and lube
    BUt I added some more oil and I also put in a ton of slick oleum and still the IRT and the air spring were still sticky inside the stanchion.


    This I would find somewhat odd since I would imagine that the IRT would not be affected as much versus lower down from the crown.
    I can see where if the lower bushing was so screwed up as to be effectively out of alignment that the lower leg would no longer be lined up with the stanchion, and the bottom of the lower where the spring shaft mounts would be affected the most, putting the shaft under a constant side load, which would also affect the air piston. Yup, that would suck and it would rapidly degrade the air spring.

    The IRT is entirely independent from all of that though, it sits up top all by itself, it just needs to be properly lubed to start with, which is not how all of them were coming out of the box. Glad to hear they got you a good one and it is working as intended.

  43. #2243
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Is that on the fork? Or only on the box?
    box

  44. #2244
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    I recently put maybe 10 drops of Supergliss 100k on top of the air piston and on top of the IRT piston (plenty of Slickoleum already in there, and the judder is gone.
    Are there any downsides of doing this?
    (I donít consider ęa few dropsĽ migrating down into the neg chamber a real issue..)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  45. #2245
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    Quote Originally Posted by langen View Post
    Are there any downsides of doing this?
    (I donít consider ęa few dropsĽ migrating down into the neg chamber a real issue..)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Downside is the oil can wash out the grease as it thins out and can migrate to the lower negative chamber. But if you have a feel for when your fork needs maintenance and don't ride it for a year without air spring maintenance you'll be fine.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  46. #2246
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    FWIW, if you mix grease and oil together into a paste, it works pretty damn well for the air spring side. It's thick enough to stick to everything still, but not so thick that it can't slowly slide back down the stanchion. Straight grease usually just gets pushed out of the operational zone and then stays there. The paste will work it's way back into the operational zone but didn't really migrate between the different chambers.

    I did this with my Runt, mixing dynamic seal grease and Plush 10W oil. It noticably made the Runt operate smoother. I do the same in the Lyrik air-spring and when I service it, all the grease and oil stays in the positive side, despite there being the equalization dimple. Did the same in the Mezzer as well and haven't had any issue with it coming out the air valve when messing with air pressure.

  47. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    FWIW, if you mix grease and oil together into a paste, it works pretty damn well for the air spring side. It's thick enough to stick to everything still, but not so thick that it can't slowly slide back down the stanchion. Straight grease usually just gets pushed out of the operational zone and then stays there. The paste will work it's way back into the operational zone but didn't really migrate between the different chambers.


    Yup, I think you nailed it there. Even very thin grease, like Slickoleum, forms a ring above the air spring piston, with the stanchion left wiped nearly clean by the seal.

  48. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    Yup, I think you nailed it there. Even very thin grease, like Slickoleum, forms a ring above the air spring piston, with the stanchion left wiped nearly clean by the seal.
    The bulk gets wiped, but it leaves a working film. It's keeping that film replenished which is the challenge for all lubrication.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  49. #2249
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    Could anyone tell me the volumes of negative, positive and IRT chamber? Any stroke. Just want to model airspring curve for compare.

  50. #2250
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    @dougal how long are you recommending service intervals?

    I need to round up oils, grease, and damper bleed tools. Its got about 700 miles on it now. I was going to try and do a complete service on it before our trip mid next month.

    What do you recommend for it

    Motorex Supergliss 100k in the legs,

    Motorex Fork oil 2.5w for the damper ? Or your Green oil I am a 220lb rider.

    Looks like the SuperGliss 100k is not readily available in the US from what I am seeing.

    Then I just need some Slickoleum ...

    Thanks!

  51. #2251
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    So a while ago I had a CSU creak, which manitou took care of quick fast and in a hurry. No issues since. Iím hoping they did a service while it was there and at least replaced the oil.

    But if they didnít, what syringe are yíall using to put oil into the fill ports on the back?

    Also I noticed today I have a tiny bit of oil on/around the rebound knob. Not enough to really see but just enough to feeel a little oily and catch some dirt. Is that normal?

  52. #2252
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXrocks View Post
    @dougal how long are you recommending service intervals?

    I need to round up oils, grease, and damper bleed tools. Its got about 700 miles on it now. I was going to try and do a complete service on it before our trip mid next month.

    What do you recommend for it

    Motorex Supergliss 100k in the legs,

    Motorex Fork oil 2.5w for the damper ? Or your Green oil I am a 220lb rider.

    Looks like the SuperGliss 100k is not readily available in the US from what I am seeing.

    Then I just need some Slickoleum ...

    Thanks!
    I just bought 250 mL from Dougal - $35 shipped to PA, USA. That said, I have no idea when it will arrive, but Iím not in a rush (probably wonít put it into the fork until spring).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  53. #2253
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    Alright, this fork is going to kill me. Lol

    It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks) that weren't an issue on my last setup...

    Strangely though, it's just enough to make things sketchy but not toss me on my head. It will hang up, toss me forward and then about the time I expect it to be all over and for it to dive hard and finish the job, it some how pops up over the object. It's like there is enough support deeper in the travel, but from SAG to like 100mm of travel, it's too soft.

    I'm not using the last 40mm of travel unless I hit something really hard, and even then it never uses the last 25mm. But at the same time, it just feels soft... Everywhere. Except for of course the high amount of harshness over braking bumps.

    Is the wheel not able to get out of the way quick enough? Or is it not firm enough initially to push me up over the object?

    I had zero issue getting my last fork setup but man, I can't get this thing to work. I want it to though. I really do.

  54. #2254
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    FWIW, if you mix grease and oil together into a paste, it works pretty damn well for the air spring side. It's thick enough to stick to everything still, but not so thick that it can't slowly slide back down the stanchion. Straight grease usually just gets pushed out of the operational zone and then stays there. The paste will work it's way back into the operational zone but didn't really migrate between the different chambers.

    I did this with my Runt, mixing dynamic seal grease and Plush 10W oil. It noticably made the Runt operate smoother. I do the same in the Lyrik air-spring and when I service it, all the grease and oil stays in the positive side, despite there being the equalization dimple. Did the same in the Mezzer as well and haven't had any issue with it coming out the air valve when messing with air pressure.
    So you have to use the SRAM dynamic seal grease instead of Slick Honey?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  55. #2255
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    Just on the air piston and IRT. Slickolium and oil in the lowers.

  56. #2256
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Alright, this fork is going to kill me. Lol

    It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks) that weren't an issue on my last setup...

    Strangely though, it's just enough to make things sketchy but not toss me on my head. It will hang up, toss me forward and then about the time I expect it to be all over and for it to dive hard and finish the job, it some how pops up over the object. It's like there is enough support deeper in the travel, but from SAG to like 100mm of travel, it's too soft.

    I'm not using the last 40mm of travel unless I hit something really hard, and even then it never uses the last 25mm. But at the same time, it just feels soft... Everywhere. Except for of course the high amount of harshness over braking bumps.

    Is the wheel not able to get out of the way quick enough? Or is it not firm enough initially to push me up over the object?

    I had zero issue getting my last fork setup but man, I can't get this thing to work. I want it to though. I really do.
    What pressures are you running?

    Have you done anything with rebound or just removed the shim on compression?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  57. #2257
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    61/95 on air

    Haven't touched the damper yet internally, if that's what you mean? I'm swapping back to the Lyrik after today's ride so I can rebaseline. Maybe something else is throwing things off, so I want to eliminate other variables. It's pretty consistently felt like what I described above though since my first ride on it when the only thing that changed was the fork.

    I've got a 37.07mm burnishing die being made that I was going to use and then if there is a shim stack change that makes sense, I'd do that too.

    Up for suggestions, but I'm at a loss as in general, it feels too soft and unsupportive. But doesn't use much travel and it's harsh at speed.

  58. #2258
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    How much do you weigh? Those are odd issues.

    Iím at 183 pounds and run much lower pressures than you but havenít felt anything that youíre scribing. I run about 48 main 60 irt to make it feel a little more progressive. What is your LSC, HSC, and rebound setting at?

  59. #2259
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    I would definitely pull the air spring and damper to check chassis fit before burnishing. I haven't heard a single report of tight bushings in a Mezzer. If anything they run on the loose side.

    When you say "It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks)." Can you explain what you mean? I'm having a hard time picturing how the fork can get "hung up" on an object by being too compliant. You are moving forward. In order for the wheel to get over the obstacle, it has to move up. The more resistance to this, from the spring and damper, the more you and the bike chassis lose forward momentum, and get directed upwards.

    When you disconnect your pump, the front wheel is off the ground and pulled to top of stroke? With the pump connected can you easily push the fork to full bottom out?

  60. #2260
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    61/95 on air

    Haven't touched the damper yet internally, if that's what you mean? I'm swapping back to the Lyrik after today's ride so I can rebaseline. Maybe something else is throwing things off, so I want to eliminate other variables. It's pretty consistently felt like what I described above though since my first ride on it when the only thing that changed was the fork.

    I've got a 37.07mm burnishing die being made that I was going to use and then if there is a shim stack change that makes sense, I'd do that too.

    Up for suggestions, but I'm at a loss as in general, it feels too soft and unsupportive. But doesn't use much travel and it's harsh at speed.
    Drop a shim in the damper (gives you my2021 tune), reduce irt to 90 psi and I think you'll be sorted.

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter
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  61. #2261
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    I would definitely pull the air spring and damper to check chassis fit before burnishing. I haven't heard a single report of tight bushings in a Mezzer. If anything they run on the loose side.
    I've been wondering if you can feel how tight the bushings are with the wipers still in?


    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    When you say "It keeps getting hung up on large objects (8-12" rocks)." Can you explain what you mean? I'm having a hard time picturing how the fork can get "hung up" on an object by being too compliant. You are moving forward. In order for the wheel to get over the obstacle, it has to move up. The more resistance to this, from the spring and damper, the more you and the bike chassis lose forward momentum, and get directed upwards.
    I'm not saying it is for sure too compliant causing it. Just that it's soft feeling in general.

    What it feels like is the tire stops briefly, your momentum compresses the fork and your weight keeps moving forward. About the time I think I'm heading over the bars, the tire starts going again as it rolls over the object. Usually when this has happened, it's been at lower speeds in a rock garden. Today though, it was while I was grabbing a hand full of brakes at high speed through some rocks before a tight switch back. Came off the pedals right when I hit the rocks and rode 5-10' with all my weight on the bars and probably the back tire off the ground after it rolled over the rock. Not sure how I stayed on the bike. Lol I feel like the fork saved my ass... But caused the issue in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    When you disconnect your pump, the front wheel is off the ground and pulled to top of stroke? With the pump connected can you easily push the fork to full bottom out?
    Yes, fork fully extended when removing pump.
    Nope. If I put about 80% of my weight on it, I can get it to fully compress. But not easily. I open the vent valves though and yes it easily compresses.

  62. #2262
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    I've been wondering if you can feel how tight the bushings are with the wipers still in?


    You might be able to feel if the bushings are really bad, but I think the wipers have enough influence to skew the result. I certainly wouldn't burnish my bushings without a wiper free test.

    Technically, you shouldn't remove and reinstall wipers. I designed a 3D printed removal tool (and a driver) let has let me pop them out without any damage. I could sell you a set for pretty cheap if you wanted.



    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    I'm not saying it is for sure too compliant causing it. Just that it's soft feeling in general.

    What it feels like is the tire stops briefly, your momentum compresses the fork and your weight keeps moving forward. About the time I think I'm heading over the bars, the tire starts going again as it rolls over the object. Usually when this has happened, it's been at lower speeds in a rock garden. Today though, it was while I was grabbing a hand full of brakes at high speed through some rocks before a tight switch back. Came off the pedals right when I hit the rocks and rode 5-10' with all my weight on the bars and probably the back tire off the ground after it rolled over the rock. Not sure how I stayed on the bike. Lol I feel like the fork saved my ass... But caused the issue in the first place.


    Yes, fork fully extended when removing pump.
    Nope. If I put about 80% of my weight on it, I can get it to fully compress. But not easily. I open the vent valves though and yes it easily compresses.


    Something sounds wrong there. Have you tried opening the bleed screws, or cracking the foot nuts loose? It sounds like your airshaft valves are partially clogged and/or pressure has built up in the lowers. I can try to check how much actual force it takes me, but with the pump connected, I can compress the fork fully with much less than my full 156 lbs.

  63. #2263
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    I'm running it at 180mm? If you are running less travel, you'll have a lower compression ratio? It easily compresses until about the last two inches, then it quickly ramps up. I've had the lowers off to do a service and everything looked good. Like I mentioned, if I take the vent caps off then with the pump connected it easily compresses to the bump stops. It's the air build up in the lowers that's causing the high force, without a doubt.

  64. #2264
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    I'm running it at 180mm? If you are running less travel, you'll have a lower compression ratio? It easily compresses until about the last two inches, then it quickly ramps up. I've had the lowers off to do a service and everything looked good. Like I mentioned, if I take the vent caps off then with the pump connected it easily compresses to the bump stops. It's the air build up in the lowers that's causing the high force, without a doubt.



    I'm running at 145mm, so I definitely have lower CR in the lowers. I just wouldn't expect it to have such a dramatic effect.

    What is your static sag on the fork?

    It sounds like most of your complaints would be addressed by more main pressure and less IRT, assuming everything else is in good working order. I would go [+2psi main / -2psi IRT] increments and see how it feels.

  65. #2265
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    Alright, another setup help post =\. Rode the Mezzer for the first time yesterday. Comparing to a 2021 Lyrik Ultimate. I rode a trail I'm very familiar with.

    Used 20mm less travel with the Mezzer. Overall it felt better and eliminated arm pump that I was experience with the Lyrik. However, it's feeling soft off the top, with a rapid ramp up to short mid stroke and real firm bottom. It doesn't feel right yet, definitely feels too progressive. I setup the air based on the calculator linked earlier in this thread. Everything else set in the middle just because I had no idea what to try out for baseline.

    Primary terrain is PNW steep techy chunk with drops to flat and some jumps. I need enough pop to handle the drops & jumps, while maintaining enough compliance to not fly off the ridiculous amount of roots and rocks. It'd be nice to have a setup for flow as well, every once in a while some fast flowly relaxation is a nice break.

    For reference, I'm a low-intermediate rider so my form and balance is likely trash most of the time.

    5'10", 184#, about 190 - 193# kitted
    2020 Specialized Enduro S3...long and slack
    170mm 29" 44 OS
    50/83
    HSC 2
    LSC 5
    R 5
    20% static sag

    Lyrik setup for reference. Settings are from open:
    85 psi
    HSC 0
    LSC 2-3
    R 4
    1 volume spacer
    15% static sag

  66. #2266
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireflywa View Post
    Alright, another setup help post =\.

    Used 20mm less travel with the Mezzer. Overall it felt better and eliminated arm pump that I was experience with the Lyrik. However, it's feeling soft off the top, with a rapid ramp up to short mid stroke and real firm bottom. It doesn't feel right yet, definitely feels too progressive. I setup the air based on the calculator linked earlier in this thread. Everything else set in the middle just because I had no idea what to try out for baseline.

    5'10", 184#, about 190 - 193# kitted
    2020 Specialized Enduro S3...long and slack
    170mm 29" 44 OS
    50/83
    HSC 2
    LSC 5
    R 5
    20% static sag



    The beauty of the IRT system, is that you can tune the main air for off the top and mid-stroke feel, and dial in bottom out protection with IRT pressure. Especially with the hydraulic bottom out, you can run less progressivity.

    I would try 52 / 80 and see how that feels.

    If you need more support, bump the main in 1-2psi increments, and keep dropping IRT until you just bottom out on your biggest drop. Do yourself a favor, and make a true bottom-out mark on a stanchion with a small piece of tape: clean the stanchion with some alcohol, near the crown. Connect your shock pump to the main chamber and leave it connected. Bounce the fork off the bottom a couple times. Then, put your tape just flush with the top of the o-ring. Being able to accurately see travel available/used is key to dialing IRT pressure in.

  67. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    The beauty of the IRT system, is that you can tune the main air for off the top and mid-stroke feel, and dial in bottom out protection with IRT pressure. Especially with the hydraulic bottom out, you can run less progressivity.

    I would try 52 / 80 and see how that feels.

    If you need more support, bump the main in 1-2psi increments, and keep dropping IRT until you just bottom out on your biggest drop. Do yourself a favor, and make a true bottom-out mark on a stanchion with a small piece of tape: clean the stanchion with some alcohol, near the crown. Connect your shock pump to the main chamber and leave it connected. Bounce the fork off the bottom a couple times. Then, put your tape just flush with the top of the o-ring. Being able to accurately see travel available/used is key to dialing IRT pressure in.
    I am no tuning genius but wouldn't you start with backing off the compression slightly then play with the psi +/- ?

  68. #2268
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    I personally run pretty close to wire open on HSC and full closed on LSC.

    People have different personal preference on that, and if he is running +2 from open on HSC, that's not going to keep him from using travel.

    If it feels too progressive, it probably is.

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  69. #2269
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    Can anyone tell me what to use to get oil into the fill ports? I canít find the manitou syringe in stock anywhere

    Also when a fork goes in for warranty work do they also service it? Tried emailing Manitou about it but havent gotten an email back in a week.

  70. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireflywa View Post

    For reference, I'm a low-intermediate rider so my form and balance is likely trash most of the time.

    5'10", 184#, about 190 - 193# kitted
    2020 Specialized Enduro S3...long and slack
    170mm 29" 44 OS
    50/83
    HSC 2
    LSC 5
    R 5
    20% static sag

    Lyrik setup for reference. Settings are from open:
    85 psi
    HSC 0
    LSC 2-3
    R 4
    1 volume spacer
    15% static sag
    Is that 20% in the attack position or just sitting on the saddle.

    I would drop the main and the IRT by a couple of PSI and go from there.

  71. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by megablue View Post
    Can anyone tell me what to use to get oil into the fill ports? I canít find the manitou syringe in stock anywhere

    Also when a fork goes in for warranty work do they also service it? Tried emailing Manitou about it but havent gotten an email back in a week.
    I get my syringes for free from the local pharmacy.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  72. #2272
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    Feed stores like Tractor Supply and the like are good sources for veterinary syringes which come in a variety of sizes and types for pretty cheap

  73. #2273
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    Is that 20% in the attack position or just sitting on the saddle.

    I would drop the main and the IRT by a couple of PSI and go from there.
    He already has a fork that's too soft in the early stroke and is too progressive, dropping the pressure in both would just make it worse.

    Add air pressure to the main, and reduce the IRT pressure. This firms up the spring rate where he needs it and reduces the progression.

  74. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by megablue View Post
    Can anyone tell me what to use to get oil into the fill ports? I canít find the manitou syringe in stock anywhere

    Also when a fork goes in for warranty work do they also service it? Tried emailing Manitou about it but havent gotten an email back in a week.
    The fill ports on the lowers are an M5 - according to Dougal a Shimano bleed kit or a reverb bleed kit will thread right on!

  75. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    He already has a fork that's too soft in the early stroke and is too progressive, dropping the pressure in both would just make it worse.

    Add air pressure to the main, and reduce the IRT pressure. This firms up the spring rate where he needs it and reduces the progression.
    Is it too soft though or is he just used to a lyrik that is 90% reliant on the air spring?

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  76. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    He already has a fork that's too soft in the early stroke and is too progressive, dropping the pressure in both would just make it worse.

    Add air pressure to the main, and reduce the IRT pressure. This firms up the spring rate where he needs it and reduces the progression.
    not convinced his fork is too soft with those settings, travel and his skill level. If he was running a lyric at 15% sag in the attack position then he is going to be used to a very stiff air spring.

  77. #2277
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    not convinced his fork is too soft with those settings, travel and his skill level. If he was running a lyric at 15% sag in the attack position then he is going to be used to a very stiff air spring.
    Thanks for all the replies (too many to quote on a phone).

    The sag numbers I stated are in the attack position. The Lyrik was probably setup too stiff...I found a setup that worked pretty well for the terrain I ride and didn't mess with it after that. Less air resulted in bottom outs and I didn't like the feeling of an added volume spacer.

    I'm not sure how soft it's supposed to feel off the top. Right now it's considerably softer than the Lyrik until about halfway down the travel, then it ramps up hard. I like the idea of a little more main and a little less IRT, but I also like how well it soaked up trail chatter. Felt like it was floating over fast sections while still super planted. A noticeable difference was no arm pump at all whereas with the Lyrik I'd have to take breaks for my arms to recover.

    Maybe something like more main, less IRT, HSC one more click open, close LSC a click, and open rebound a click? I probably have some of that backwards...the Lyrik only has a couple usable clicks of each setting so it's a bit different having adjustments that actually do something.

  78. #2278
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    I think you should try that next time out.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

  79. #2279
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    I'm only running my Mezzer's HSC 1-click from open (I believe that is 3 clicks "out" from closed)

    I've found I prefer the support to come from the air spring and not the damper, so I run very little LSC/HSc
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  80. #2280
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireflywa View Post
    Thanks for all the replies (too many to quote on a phone).

    The sag numbers I stated are in the attack position. The Lyrik was probably setup too stiff...I found a setup that worked pretty well for the terrain I ride and didn't mess with it after that. Less air resulted in bottom outs and I didn't like the feeling of an added volume spacer.

    I'm not sure how soft it's supposed to feel off the top. Right now it's considerably softer than the Lyrik until about halfway down the travel, then it ramps up hard. I like the idea of a little more main and a little less IRT, but I also like how well it soaked up trail chatter. Felt like it was floating over fast sections while still super planted. A noticeable difference was no arm pump at all whereas with the Lyrik I'd have to take breaks for my arms to recover.

    Maybe something like more main, less IRT, HSC one more click open, close LSC a click, and open rebound a click? I probably have some of that backwards...the Lyrik only has a couple usable clicks of each setting so it's a bit different having adjustments that actually do something.

    Use Lsc, but only max 1 click hsc from open and handle the rest with the pressures.
    Main for initial suppleness until ride height and feel match your preference and the IRT for support and bottom out.

  81. #2281
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    I'm a bit lighter than you but run the same travel (27.5) but guessing I ride more difficult trails. Transition patrol mk1.

    my settings are 50/75 and both HSC/LSC 2 from close (turn the dials fully closed then turn them back 2 clicks). Rebound is to suit. I run my front tyre around 23psi (wild enduro + huck norris)




    Quote Originally Posted by fireflywa View Post
    Thanks for all the replies (too many to quote on a phone).

    The sag numbers I stated are in the attack position. The Lyrik was probably setup too stiff...I found a setup that worked pretty well for the terrain I ride and didn't mess with it after that. Less air resulted in bottom outs and I didn't like the feeling of an added volume spacer.

  82. #2282
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    So hey, can the Mezzer be reduced to 120mm? I know it can be reduced to 140 but can it unofficially be reduced to 120?

  83. #2283
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    Quote Originally Posted by panzer103 View Post
    So hey, can the Mezzer be reduced to 120mm? I know it can be reduced to 140 but can it unofficially be reduced to 120?
    It can be, with or without using more spacers. But you are getting into the weeds on it's intended usage and tuning may get wonky.

  84. #2284
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    Quote Originally Posted by panzer103 View Post
    So hey, can the Mezzer be reduced to 120mm? I know it can be reduced to 140 but can it unofficially be reduced to 120?
    Mechanically you can reduce it as short as you want.

    Excellent results with one of my Mezzer's set at 130 on my Ibis Ripley V4.

    The Mezzer's so simple to work on that if you've the travel reduction spacers give it a go.

    You can also give it a try without disassembling just by connecting your pump to the positive air then compressing the fork to 120.
    ...think we'll ever get outta' this world alive ?...

  85. #2285
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    I started making a solid model of the Mezzer internals.
    This is a March 2020 build of a 27.5 Mezzer Pro set to 180mm of travel.
    Some parts I had to estimate slightly as it would require dissassembling things that I don't want to take apart. The limits to the error are very small though, like +/- 0.5cc MAX.

    Here are the volume equations I came up with. Anybody able to compare to their own numbers?

    Negative Spring Volume Equation
    Y[cc] = 0.8081438*X[mm] + 46.93218

    Positive Spring Volume Equation
    Y[cc] = -0.8552981*X[mm] + 173.3587

    IRT Volume Equation
    Y[mm] = -0.7767529*X[mm] + 61.30490

    IRT Positive Spring Volume Adder
    Y[mm] = 0.7767637*X[mm]

    Travel Spacers are 2.782cc per spacer (2 required per 10mm)

    Maximum Travel being 180mm on the main airspring and 67mm on the IRT. The IRT Positive Spring Volume adder is the volume that gets added to the positive chamber as the IRT compresses (use IRT position, not main spring position).


    These equations should be pretty useful for coming up with a spring calculator. I'll get there, but I want to include the lower leg volumes as well. I think I'm just going to measure it directly instead of trying to model it though.

  86. #2286
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    I started making a solid model of the Mezzer internals.
    This is a March 2020 build of a 27.5 Mezzer Pro set to 180mm of travel.
    Some parts I had to estimate slightly as it would require dissassembling things that I don't want to take apart. The limits to the error are very small though, like +/- 0.5cc MAX.

    Here are the volume equations I came up with. Anybody able to compare to their own numbers?

    Negative Spring Volume Equation
    Y[cc] = 0.8081438*X[mm] + 46.93218

    Positive Spring Volume Equation
    Y[cc] = -0.8552981*X[mm] + 173.3587

    IRT Volume Equation
    Y[mm] = -0.7767529*X[mm] + 61.30490

    IRT Positive Spring Volume Adder
    Y[mm] = 0.7767637*X[mm]

    Travel Spacers are 2.782cc per spacer (2 required per 10mm)

    Maximum Travel being 180mm on the main airspring and 67mm on the IRT. The IRT Positive Spring Volume adder is the volume that gets added to the positive chamber as the IRT compresses (use IRT position, not main spring position).

    These equations should be pretty useful for coming up with a spring calculator. I'll get there, but I want to include the lower leg volumes as well. I think I'm just going to measure it directly instead of trying to model it though.
    I've got about 5cc more negative and IRT volume. Positive is pretty close. Whole thing is modelled up.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  87. #2287
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    What do you have for shaft ID?

    I didn't take apart the shafts so it was a guess at 7mm. Would definitely have the biggest impact on volume.

  88. #2288
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    Actually, just did a quick sanity check on the IRT and if you negated the shaft material volume all together and ignore the material in the cap where the threads are, it comes up to 65.4cc.

    Wonder if something changed because there is no way I'm 5cc low on volume for the IRT. 7mm vs 8mm shaft ID is like 0.8CC so it's not that.

  89. #2289
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Actually, just did a quick sanity check on the IRT and if you negated the shaft material volume all together and ignore the material in the cap where the threads are, it comes up to 65.4cc.

    Wonder if something changed because there is no way I'm 5cc low on volume for the IRT. 7mm vs 8mm shaft ID is like 0.8CC so it's not that.
    The IRT shaft is hollow other than the end of the bolt at the bottom and the little bit of the valve stem. It's part of the volume.

    Negative spring should also include shaft volume minus however much volume the internal connector rod takes up.

  90. #2290
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    Yep, I accounted for hollow shafts and made a reasonable estimate on the valve piece that's inside of the main shaft. See the attachments. Sorry for the quality, I have the model on my laptop that I don't connect to the internet, I'll grab some high res images at some point.

    That's what I'm saying, even if the shaft didn't exist at all and you got rid of the threaded section of the IRT cap, I'm still not 5CC low on the IRT. I have to wonder if maybe something changed on the IRT from what Dougal measured.

    The place where I'm unsure is the shaft looks like about 1.5mm wall thickness, so 7mm ID. If I'm wrong and it's 8mm ID, the difference is only 0.8CC larger volume. More likely though, is an 8mm bolt and the minor thread diameter puts it at ~6.5mm inside diameter.

    Edit: the other unknown on the negative spring side would be the hard plastic stop at the seal head. I have it as solid plastic. I could see this being hollow inside? Probably a couple CCs in there I'm missing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-img_20201026_081959%7E2.jpg  

    Manitou Mezzer-img_20201026_081742%7E2.jpg  


  91. #2291
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    Outside of the solid model, I did notice on the damper side oil and grease has been spraying up the stanchion through the damper ring. Also looked like a small amount has come out of the damper bleed port, just enough to leave a residue path down the side of the stanchion.

  92. #2292
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Yep, I accounted for hollow shafts and made a reasonable estimate on the valve piece that's inside of the main shaft. See the attachments. Sorry for the quality, I have the model on my laptop that I don't connect to the internet, I'll grab some high res images at some point.

    That's what I'm saying, even if the shaft didn't exist at all and you got rid of the threaded section of the IRT cap, I'm still not 5CC low on the IRT. I have to wonder if maybe something changed on the IRT from what Dougal measured.

    The place where I'm unsure is the shaft looks like about 1.5mm wall thickness, so 7mm ID. If I'm wrong and it's 8mm ID, the difference is only 0.8CC larger volume. More likely though, is an 8mm bolt and the minor thread diameter puts it at ~6.5mm inside diameter.
    Cool, yeah sorry I misunderstood what you were saying about the shaft. That is a significant difference, it would seem that the shaft length would have to be different to account for so much? Compared to that cutaway drawing Manitou put out, if anything I would have thought you would be very close or a shade over, not several percent under. But we don't know if it is spot on to production forks, and something else may have changed. Nice work.

  93. #2293
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Outside of the solid model, I did notice on the damper side oil and grease has been spraying up the stanchion through the damper ring.
    That's something I still wonder about, the gap is so narrow it seems like under any quick deep compression there would be something of a jet of air and whatever went along with it occurring. Which should be limited to bath oil. And even a variable spring rate effect from the restriction and compression speed. But the real question is does it make a meaningful difference in anything? And does opening up the gap as some of us have done have any other effect than making drainback easier?

  94. #2294
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    Yeah, my concern is that under compression, it's going to blow air past the o-ring, but under extension, your are going to create a lower pressure in the lower and grease/oil is going to help seal that o-ring up. If anything, I think this might impact rebound more than compression.

  95. #2295
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Yeah, my concern is that under compression, it's going to blow air past the o-ring, but under extension, your are going to create a lower pressure in the lower and grease/oil is going to help seal that o-ring up. If anything, I think this might impact rebound more than compression.
    Yeah with the difference in volume between the damper side lower leg and the inside of the stanchion at bottom out, it seems possible it could briefly go negative pressure in the lower if the restriction were significantly gummed up or acting as a check valve. So further justification for opening up the slots in the cap? Or still not enough of an effect to notice?

  96. #2296
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    Pretty likely I'll modify it but I still need to model it up as looking closer might still make it apparent it's a non-issue.

    37.07mm burnishing die showed up today too.

    For now, I put the Lyrik back on so I can dig in further on the Mezzer without having the bike down. Although it snowed yesterday anyway so getting a fair test on any of this might be hard.

  97. #2297
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Pretty likely I'll modify it but I still need to model it up as looking closer might still make it apparent it's a non-issue.

    37.07mm burnishing die showed up today too.
    Cool, very interested to hear how the Mezzer takes to the burnishing treatment.

  98. #2298
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    Got my first rides on the Mezzer this weekend after 18 months of trying to make a Fox 34 SC feel right. Blown away at the difference so far. One click makes a difference. Adding damping does not make it feel like dog sh!+. Supportive without harshness (even with my toddler riding along on Macride for a bit). Can't wait to get it dialed. Wish I would have made the swap sooner.

    Quick question...without reading all the comments and deciphering all the million types of oils you guys use, what oil(s) (available in US) do I need for basic service. Will be traveling next year and need to bring essentials along.

  99. #2299
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    Quote Originally Posted by GatorXman View Post
    Got my first rides on the Mezzer this weekend after 18 months of trying to make a Fox 34 SC feel right. Blown away at the difference so far. One click makes a difference. Adding damping does not make it feel like dog sh!+. Supportive without harshness (even with my toddler riding along on Macride for a bit). Can't wait to get it dialed. Wish I would have made the swap sooner.

    Quick question...without reading all the comments and deciphering all the million types of oils you guys use, what oil(s) (available in US) do I need for basic service. Will be traveling next year and need to bring essentials along.
    Unless you also plan to service the damper, bath oil and some Slickoleum are all you need.

    This is the stock bath oil:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...c=1&pldnSite=1

    And this is the damper oil:
    https://www.amazon.com/Maxima-59901-...ldnSite=1&th=1

  100. #2300
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    FWIW the Motorex stuff might be at your local motorcycle store. I got it for about half the price local compared to what I could find it for online.

    I guess I need the damper fluid too...Looks like the WPL 2.5wt I have is very close to the same viscosity with a better viscosity index. Should work.

    FWIW, there is decent drag on the stanchion with the seals in. If I do one stanchion at a time, the damper leg will keep moving with gravity once it gets started. Not the case on the air-spring side. I think burnishing is going to help. I ordered new seals though so I'll pull them and test it without seals too.

  101. #2301
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    Modeling this fork up has clarified some things. I think I need to model the Lyrik now too though for comparison.

    Something that would look very interesting to try is a coil setup that maintains the sealed lowers on both sides. If my model is correct, you actually pick up about 240lb of progressive bottoming force from the lowers if you sealed the upper stanchion on the damper side too. Between that and the HBO of the Mezzer, this fork might be serious business with a coil.

  102. #2302
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    I would like to reshim the mezzer. Is there a damper rebuild guide? I looked but could not find one. Like to know what I'm getting into before taking it all apart.

    Evolution Training Cycles

  103. #2303
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    Reshimming the mezzer was easier than I thought it would be.

    Stock shim stack:
    20x.15
    17.5x.15
    17.5x.15
    6x.50

    Took out one of the 17.5 shims. we'll see how it rides

    Evolution Training Cycles

  104. #2304
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    The plot thickens...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-img_20201029_171703.jpg  


  105. #2305
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    The plot thickens...
    Now that's a custom tune!

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

  106. #2306
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    Let's see how Hayes handles an issue after the customer took it apart...
    I wouldn't have gotten into it had I thought there was a real issue, just thought maybe people where overselling this fork...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-look-good-5493500d27.jpg  


  107. #2307
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    Yikes! Looks like you had a valid beef with how your Mezzer performed. At least you have a lot to look forward too after that washer gets replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    The plot thickens...

  108. #2308
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Let's see how Hayes handles an issue after the customer took it apart...
    I wouldn't have gotten into it had I thought there was a real issue, just thought maybe people where overselling this fork...


    I would recommend calling them. They were super helpful and quick the first time I reached out to them.

    I'm excited for you to finally get to ride a proper Mezzer and to hear your results.

  109. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    The plot thickens...
    So that's a preload shim caught and crimped during assembly?

    Told ya it was too much HSC!

    Manitou will look after you. Give them a call.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  110. #2310
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    Indeed, it definitely had some...not great...damping.

    Just some more info though related to earlier posts.
    Measured the volume of the 27.5 lowers to be 423CC. This is to the top of the wiper seal, with the foam rings in and greased up so they didn't absorb anything, all the other grease and lube cleaned out though. The stanchion looks to sit 132mm past the top of the wiper when at 180mm.

    Lower Leg Volume Equation
    Y[cc] = -0.9966911*X[mm] + 267.4178

    This puts lower leg volume at 88cc at bottom out. 20cc of oil on top...Things get squishy and high on pressure, for sure.

    I also started looking into replacement HSC springs. Indeed, the HSC spring does not touch the spring seat in the full open position. The stroke range on the adjuster goes from 8.5mm of clearance to 4mm of clearance. The spring is for a 10mm shaft, 15mm OD. Free height of 7mm. I did some ROUGH measurements using a scale and a caliper and got ~1100g/mm on stiffness.

    I've found a couple springs that are ~half the rate and would provide either small free play or slight preload. I have one that would basically take what position 1 is (one click in from closed) as the max setting and then go down to ~0 preload at full open position.

  111. #2311
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Indeed, it definitely had some...not great...damping.

    Just some more info though related to earlier posts.
    Measured the volume of the 27.5 lowers to be 423CC. This is to the top of the wiper seal, with the foam rings in and greased up so they didn't absorb anything, all the other grease and lube cleaned out though. The stanchion looks to sit 132mm past the top of the wiper when at 180mm.

    Lower Leg Volume Equation
    Y[cc] = -0.9966911*X[mm] + 267.4178

    This puts lower leg volume at 88cc at bottom out. 20cc of oil on top...Things get squishy and high on pressure, for sure.

    I also started looking into replacement HSC springs. Indeed, the HSC spring does not touch the spring seat in the full open position. The stroke range on the adjuster goes from 8.5mm of clearance to 4mm of clearance. The spring is for a 10mm shaft, 15mm OD. Free height of 7mm. I did some ROUGH measurements using a scale and a caliper and got ~1100g/mm on stiffness.

    I've found a couple springs that are ~half the rate and would provide either small free play or slight preload. I have one that would basically take what position 1 is (one click in from closed) as the max setting and then go down to ~0 preload at full open position.
    Internal volume is the same for 27" and 29". They moved the axle and brake position and offset on the casting to change wheel size.

    Are your discovered springs wafer type or coil?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  112. #2312
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    Stacked wave disc with flat ends. Same as what's in it.

    https://www.rotorclip.com/

    Not sure what their pricing is like though.

  113. #2313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Internal volume is the same for 27" and 29". They moved the axle and brake position and offset on the casting to change wheel size.

    Are your discovered springs wafer type or coil?
    So I could just buy a set of 27.5Ē lowers to convert my 29er (51mm) Mezzer?


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  114. #2314
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsvSpaz View Post
    So I could just buy a set of 27.5Ē lowers to convert my 29er (51mm) Mezzer?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Yes. It'll be 44mm offset as a 27".

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  115. #2315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes. It'll be 44mm offset as a 27".

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter
    Great to know.


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  116. #2316
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    I see the Mezzer is on sale again. This fork has a great price to performance ratio that's for certain.

    Is there an update in the works? I'm always a bit suspicious when I see product being sold off at a discount when demand is very high as it is now.

  117. #2317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I see the Mezzer is on sale again. This fork has a great price to performance ratio that's for certain.

    Is there an update in the works? I'm always a bit suspicious when I see product being sold off at a discount when demand is very high as it is now.


    They are about to release the zero-flex, zero-friction, zero-stiction, zero-hysteresis version; with bushings developed for world-class bulldozers.

  118. #2318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    I see the Mezzer is on sale again. This fork has a great price to performance ratio that's for certain.

    Is there an update in the works? I'm always a bit suspicious when I see product being sold off at a discount when demand is very high as it is now.
    I don't think you can make that inference in this case. The sale is across every product in the entire Hayes line of brands, which they seem to do every so often. If only they could keep the entire line in stock.

  119. #2319
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    Im impressed with mezzer air spring system. 1,5x POS/IRT ratio, ofcourse approximated. Without lowers pressure buildup.

  120. #2320
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    That's a nice looking curve!

    Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

  121. #2321
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    Here was what my model came up with. The Lowers have a pretty big impact. The coil with lowers assumes the spring exists in the upper stanchion and the bottom of it is sealed off to get the ramp up of the lowers air pressure.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-force-compare.jpg  


  122. #2322
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    Hi everyone,

    I have a new Mezzer and am about to delve into trying to get the setup nailed.

    The blue rebound adjuster at the bottom of the fork seems incredibly stiff. Should it turn easily? I see there's a small Allen bolt inside it, but from looking at the service manuals this is for fork disassembly.

    Could it be done up too tight from factory impeding movement of the adjuster?

  123. #2323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubbsy View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I have a new Mezzer and am about to delve into trying to get the setup nailed.

    The blue rebound adjuster at the bottom of the fork seems incredibly stiff. Should it turn easily? I see there's a small Allen bolt inside it, but from looking at the service manuals this is for fork disassembly.

    Could it be done up too tight from factory impeding movement of the adjuster?
    Yes, lossen it and then turn it fix to the pointythat the rebound adjuster stil moves freely enough.

  124. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Yes, lossen it and then turn it fix to the pointythat the rebound adjuster stil moves freely enough.
    Thanks Mate.

  125. #2325
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    I serviced my original Mezzer today for it's new owner. Realising in the process that this fork with over a years use had no seals replaced and was only lubed up for travel changes.

    New owner gets the new lower legs. I never had a problem with the original bushings but the original bumpers floated around a lot.

    My new Limited Edition Mezzer will be shipping soon. I still have no idea what it's going to look like!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  126. #2326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubbsy View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I have a new Mezzer and am about to delve into trying to get the setup nailed.

    The blue rebound adjuster at the bottom of the fork seems incredibly stiff. Should it turn easily? I see there's a small Allen bolt inside it, but from looking at the service manuals this is for fork disassembly.

    Could it be done up too tight from factory impeding movement of the adjuster?



    No, the tension on that bolt should have nothing to do with the adjuster effort.

    It is worth disassembling though to clean and inspect. If the o-ring is totally dry, it could cause extra friction.

  127. #2327
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCS86 View Post
    No, the tension on that bolt should have nothing to do with the adjuster effort.

    It is worth disassembling though to clean and inspect. If the o-ring is totally dry, it could cause extra friction.
    Thanks for that. I've only just built the bike up and hadn't spent any time on this yet.

    Turns out making the first turn of the adjuster needed quite a lot of force for whatever reason, but now it clicks silkily all the way round.

    I didn't loosen the bolt, so all good now I think.

  128. #2328
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Springs, best I can tell, that's not a shim. That's the compression check spring.

    CCS86, I don't disagree that HSC open, LSC closed feels the best. It just doesn't really have enough LSC though, that's why I tried more HSC so it brings the LSC knee higher up. It gets some of that extra support but also comes with a bunch more harshness. Ride this weekend, on the slow tech I ran HSC at 2. Once it opened up and speeds picked up, I ran HSC at 4 (full open). Felt fine like this, just use to a fork that does both without changing settings mid ride.

    Elsinore, that order doesn't look right. My post #2019 above has the complete basevalve disassembled. The shim layout is on the bottom. I didn't take that picture, but it looks like what I'd expect.

    Dougal, going back here. What I was suggesting before actually wouldn't be a preloaded basevalve at all anyway. It wouldn't be preloading the shims. It would be controlling the shim clamping load. The shims would flex initially like completely non-preloaded shims. Once your differential pressure overcame the spring force though, the clamp shim would move and allow the entire shim stack to move away from the face of the valve. This should make for substantially more flow area. I could see how this might cause some flutter though. But the simple fact remains, the Avy cartridge seems to work in a similar manner and it kicks the crap out of this damper. It does it on the mid-valve and the basevalve though and it also has some additional features that would impact the behavior.
    Seems like the Mezzer has a superior chassis, and air spring design compared to the big 2. Is it possible to install an Avy Cart in to a Mezzer? Maybe needs a custom machined top cap?
    Thoughts?

  129. #2329
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    Post #2304
    My damper was damaged internally from the factory. Every concern I have had about performance needs to be tossed. Hopefully it resolves the poor performace and this fork becomes awesome.

  130. #2330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suns_PSD View Post
    Seems like the Mezzer has a superior chassis, and air spring design compared to the big 2. Is it possible to install an Avy Cart in to a Mezzer? Maybe needs a custom machined top cap?
    Thoughts?
    First try, if you do not like it stock, custom shim Tuning. Made my fork more supportive / controlled through stronger shimstack but more sensitive as well with thinner oil. This fork really rocks. But witj custom topcap you could use another cartridge, of course.

  131. #2331
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    My Mezzer is still performing well but I cannot keep the damper side bath oil in the lowers for longer than about 6 rides. It migrates up and around the damper and there it stays. Hayes recommended removing the o ring in the white plastic bumper in the stanchion which I've done and I'll keep an eye on it but I'm surprised it isn't a common issue given there isn't much scope for variation. Not like my fork is any different than others.

    For info Supergliss 100k took the longest to get up there but given the damper is ingesting fluid and 100k and damper oil don't mix well I changed the bath oil on that side to 5w Motorex (same as the damper) which given the lesser viscosity explains the rate of suck up.

    I've shrunk the Mezzer to 140 and it's now on another bike whilst I test out the Ohlins M2 coil in it's place. First ride showed many similarities and a couple of decent differences between the two.

  132. #2332
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    First try, if you do not like it stock, custom shim Tuning. Made my fork more supportive / controlled through stronger shimstack but more sensitive as well with thinner oil. This fork really rocks. But witj custom topcap you could use another cartridge, of course.
    What oil are you using in your damper?

  133. #2333
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    Has anybody had luck finding supergliss 100k in the USA? I am hoping to get around to suspension service before our trip in a couple weeks.

    THANKS!

  134. #2334
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    I just bought some from Dougal (shockcraft.co.nz) and it was ~$35 USD and took two weeks to get to Philadelphia from NZ.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  135. #2335
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsogr View Post
    I just bought some from Dougal (shockcraft.co.nz) and it was ~$35 USD and took two weeks to get to Philadelphia from NZ.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    hmm when you say things like that, it's tempting to order a tuned mezzer from dougal. have him go through it before shipping at the very least...

  136. #2336
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    After a week of waiting for a response on a warranty request through Haye's email system I gave them a call and it sounds like a new damper is on the way now. I must have just slipped through the cracks on their email system.

    FWIW, I've been riding the Lyrik and it's every bit as good as I remember. It does feel a touch high on the front now though after the riser bars. I did the riser bar to make up for the lower feeling front on the 180mm Mezzer compared to the 170mm Lyrik.

  137. #2337
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    Does anyone have info on how to properly disassemble the damper? I took it out last night intending to remove the extra HSC shim. I see a few ways to start disassembling it, but I got worried about doing something wrong and ruining my weekend so I backed out.

    Since I had it out, I added some "like water" to the damper to thin it out a bit, and it made a noticeable difference on my ride today. I was able to run a bit more air pressure on both the high and low side, which kept me more in the mid-travel while still feeling plush. It cut down the pedal bob without needing LSC and gave me more rebound to play with. Definitely a move in the right direction.

    Still, I'm preferring the HSC wide open, so I need to either add more "like water" or remove that extra compression shim.

  138. #2338
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    The mezzer pro fork feel harash at the initial stroke.
    i reduced the air pressure at both to 3/5 of the recommended air pressure.
    but the fork still feel harsh overall. (and at the initial stroke)
    Does anyone have the same problem with me?

  139. #2339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry Firmament View Post
    The mezzer pro fork feel harash at the initial stroke.
    i reduced the air pressure at both to 3/5 of the recommended air pressure.
    but the fork still feel harsh overall. (and at the initial stroke)
    Does anyone have the same problem with me?
    Reduce front tire pressure

  140. #2340
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    thanks for your reply.
    my front tire pressure is 25 psi.
    for a 2.6" tire i think i can't reduce it anymore otherwise it will easily Puncture.

  141. #2341
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    describe when you think its harsh. Speed, bump size etc. Im 165bs and use 18-19 psi with light instert in front tire

  142. #2342
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    when going though on rock garden at medium speed. (high-speed compression)
    or on small rock,small pump at low speed.

  143. #2343
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    describe when you think its harsh. Speed, bump size etc. Im 165bs and use 18-19 psi with light instert in front tire
    Agreed, Iím also 165 and have Minion DHF 2.5 in front (EXO) without an insert, ride in rocky PA, and only have 16 PSI, I think you can go lower


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  144. #2344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry Firmament View Post
    The mezzer pro fork feel harash at the initial stroke.
    i reduced the air pressure at both to 3/5 of the recommended air pressure.
    but the fork still feel harsh overall. (and at the initial stroke)
    Does anyone have the same problem with me?
    Start with the HSC and LSC wide open and main/IRT pressures 8-10 psi under recommended. Then add LSC to taste.

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  145. #2345
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    Settings update for whoever is keeping track of these

    I've definitely got my COVID weight going right now... about 195lbs out of the shower

    I started with my Mezzer at 170 but the bike feels more balanced at 160.

    Main: 62PSI
    IRT: 95PSI

    Clicks from closed
    Rebound:4
    HSC: 2-3
    LSC: 5-6

    Love love love the way it keeps your front end up on steep, chunky trails that are full of stair step like rocks, roots and bombholes.

    Example: We shuttled Lemmon Drop in Tuscon yesterday and coming down the La Milagrosa trail you ride ride tons of STEEP rocky chunk.

    I've been trying to find my ideal air spring setup for several years now. I've ran Vorsprung Luftkappe, MRP Ramp and most recently had a Runt'd Lyrik before this (and have a Runt'd 36 on my hardtail)... I'm sold on the dual chamber positive spring systems.

    **Footnote**

    My setup is pretty progressive and I generally don't like uber plush forks... mainly, I love riding steep chunky trails and I hate a fork that dives a lot when you grab a bunch of front brake. The Mezzer is the best mix of plush and support I've found yet (my Runt'd and DSD tuned Lyrik being a close second).
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  146. #2346
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    Quote Originally Posted by ungod View Post
    Does anyone have info on how to properly disassemble the damper? I took it out last night intending to remove the extra HSC shim. I see a few ways to start disassembling it, but I got worried about doing something wrong and ruining my weekend so I backed out.

    Since I had it out, I added some "like water" to the damper to thin it out a bit, and it made a noticeable difference on my ride today. I was able to run a bit more air pressure on both the high and low side, which kept me more in the mid-travel while still feeling plush. It cut down the pedal bob without needing LSC and gave me more rebound to play with. Definitely a move in the right direction.

    Still, I'm preferring the HSC wide open, so I need to either add more "like water" or remove that extra compression shim.
    This stuff?

    https://www.redlineoil.com/likewater-suspension-fluid

    So your basically tuning the viscosity of the oil in the damper? Any disadvantages there?

    Thanks in advance, interesting!

  147. #2347
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    This stuff?

    https://www.redlineoil.com/likewater-suspension-fluid

    So your basically tuning the viscosity of the oil in the damper? Any disadvantages there?

    Thanks in advance, interesting!
    Yep! I had some lying around that I bought for a project years ago and never used. It was a big deal years ago on dampers that were not easily tuned, you could just throw some thinner fluid in the damper you had.

    I'm not really sure what the drawbacks or the current thinking on it is. The obvious would be that it's difficult to end up with a precise result. And of course it isn't cheap!

  148. #2348
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    Whoops, I just realized I misspoke... my compression settings were clicks from open. Just edited.

    I prefer to run less compression damping and let the air spring provide the support. Having this option for fork setup is what I like the most about a dual chamber positive air spring.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  149. #2349
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    Mezzer uses a parabolic LSC needle. Very nice.

    Is this step in the needle normal on the Mezzer LSC adjuster though? Or a machining issue?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-img_20201108_114421.jpg  


  150. #2350
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    That is interesting. I'm curious to see if anyone else finds the same, or if that is a defect. Sure seems like a shame to notch a nice paraboloid like that!

  151. #2351
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    While we are on the topic - for those attempting to soften the damping on this fork, what has been the preferred method? Thinner damping fluid, removing a shim, both? I have read through most of this thread, but I would be curious to hear more of what folks have found working for them. Mostly I would like to end up in the middle of the range of adjustability on compression - to be able to open or close it up depending on terrain.

    For reference, I am at 170mm and tend to run HSC fully open (4 clicks from closed), LSC mostly open, and rebound mostly open at 8 clicks from closed. I am a tad bit softer on the air-spring side as well, but it still exhibits the support I prefer. I generally ride chunky, rocky, and semi-steep terrain, but this is my do-it-all bike that sees flatter/smoother terrain as well.

    I am about to do a service (100hr) mark and change up the bath fluid to Supergliss 100k as well. Given the recommendations, I wanted to try it out.

  152. #2352
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmonty View Post
    While we are on the topic - for those attempting to soften the damping on this fork, what has been the preferred method? Thinner damping fluid, removing a shim, both? I have read through most of this thread, but I would be curious to hear more of what folks have found working for them. Mostly I would like to end up in the middle of the range of adjustability on compression - to be able to open or close it up depending on terrain.

    For reference, I am at 170mm and tend to run HSC fully open (4 clicks from closed), LSC mostly open, and rebound mostly open at 8 clicks from closed. I am a tad bit softer on the air-spring side as well, but it still exhibits the support I prefer. I generally ride chunky, rocky, and semi-steep terrain, but this is my do-it-all bike that sees flatter/smoother terrain as well.

    I am about to do a service (100hr) mark and change up the bath fluid to Supergliss 100k as well. Given the recommendations, I wanted to try it out.
    Remove the extra shim.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  153. #2353
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    I know I've seen this somewhere in this thread but cant locate it...

    Can someone confirm the recommended setting are:

    CFC (click from closed)

    or

    CFO (click from open)

  154. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraxFactory View Post
    I know I've seen this somewhere in this thread but cant locate it...

    Can someone confirm the recommended setting are:

    CFC (click from closed)

    or

    CFO (click from open)
    Count lsc and lsr from closed as they are needle valves and closed is the only determined position.

    Count HSC from open as it introduces preload and open is the determined position.

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  155. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Count lsc and lsr from closed as they are needle valves and closed is the only determined position.

    Count HSC from open as it introduces preload and open is the determined position.

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter

    Ok, that's a good way to remember.

    So just going by this guide for example:
    LSC Trail 1-4 CFC
    HSC Trail 3-4 CFO

    That is their intent?

    Manitou Mezzer-mezzersetupguide2019.jpg

  156. #2356
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    how many shim should I remove in order to soften the damping?
    can I remove all of them?

  157. #2357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry Firmament View Post
    how many shim should I remove in order to soften the damping?
    can I remove all of them?
    See above post #2352....might help..

  158. #2358
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    Pulled the wipers to get a better idea of bushing fit. One side slid well (csu would fall under it's own weight down the lower), the other was tight. Both stanchions in the lowers and the wheel mounted and it just got worse.

    After burnishing at 37.07mm, things are moving freely. The sticky side was noticably tighter during burnishing.

    Doesn't seem like Manitou has lowers and bushing tolerances figured out any better than Fox/RS.

  159. #2359
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    Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?

    Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!

  160. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicy View Post
    Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?

    Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!
    In theory the QR15 Hexlock could fit. In reality they're not in stock anywhere so I haven't been able to try.
    You would have to buy the QR15 and the dropout hardware to make it all fit.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  161. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicy View Post
    Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?

    Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!
    First. World. Problem.

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    If you can find a boost axle I will donate the dropout hardware from when I swapped to the better system on my mattoc.

  162. #2362
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicy View Post
    Does anyone know if a QR 'maxle stye' axle is available for the mezzer? Does the Mattoc one fit?

    Seasucker bike rack + sports car = quite annoying getting the bike on/off without dropping the axle or an allen key on the car!
    You have them in stock at Universal Cycles
    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=84064
    If you are willing to wait I can do an empirical test in a couple of days.

  163. #2363
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    Does anyone have any experience with the expert model?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    I do occasionally encounter more serious problems than this!

    Thats very kind of you, I'll let you know how I get on finding an axle (out of stock on the universalcycles link provided).

  165. #2365
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    Quote Originally Posted by spicy View Post
    I do occasionally encounter more serious problems than this!

    Thats very kind of you, I'll let you know how I get on finding an axle (out of stock on the universalcycles link provided).
    On my phone the Boost version is in stock. Only the non Boost version is out of stock.

  166. #2366
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    Good spot, I stopped scrolling a bit prematurely
    The prices to the UK are getting a bit silly including postage, import charges etc (£120+), so I'll keep my eye out for UK/EU stock and hold out for a while

  167. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Pulled the wipers to get a better idea of bushing fit. One side slid well (csu would fall under it's own weight down the lower), the other was tight. Both stanchions in the lowers and the wheel mounted and it just got worse.

    After burnishing at 37.07mm, things are moving freely. The sticky side was noticably tighter during burnishing.

    Doesn't seem like Manitou has lowers and bushing tolerances figured out any better than Fox/RS.
    Yeah I don't think Manitou have their QC process dialed as yet. I've been running an Ohlins M2 fork the past few rides (switching between coil and air)and after fitting that it highlighted how tight it was getting my front wheel into the fork lowers of the Mezzer suggesting CCS86 was probably correct when he shaved the inside face of the lowers. Maybe an alignment tolerance issue there? The hub glides into the Ohlins with much less drama.

    In relation to quickly describing the fork differences...The way the Ohlins deals with repeated high speed square edge hits feels better than the Mezzer (both the air and the coil Ohlins feel more controlled). Ohlins seems to get out of the way upon impact quicker and recover quicker, feels unflustered. The Mezzer was good but there could be a feeling of getting hung up and the bike slowing down on repeated hits depending on the terrain.

    Braking over bumps on the Ohlins feels more controlled, much more so than the Mezzer. Ohlins feels like it's staying up higher in it's stroke under brakes but remains active (both the coil and air display this trait). The Mezzer felt like a trade off...if I got the rebound fast enough is this scenario it would feel skittish off the brakes. If i put more pressure in it to keep it higher I lost compliance.

    Bear in mind I am mostly splitting hairs here, they are both good forks and for me much better than any standard 36 or Lyrik that I've had. The extra stiffness of the Mezzer could be playing a part here, especially under brakes. Not sure about the accuracy of these figures below.

    From the first post in this thread by Mullen..

    'Torsionally, the Mezzer is 30% stiffer than a Fox 36, 16% stiffer than a Ohlins RFX36, 1% stiffer than a Lyrik

    Fore-aft, the Mezzer is 7% stiffer than a 36, 20% stiffer than a RFX, and 4% stiffer than a Lyrik'

    I've also removed a check shim and flipped the remaining one to reduce compression damping on the Mezzer. It's a tangible improvement to compliance and improved reaction speed. Feels like there has been an overall reduction in friction but still retains enough damping for my riding. If I hadn't been fortunate enough to try the Ohlins I would have been a happy camper.

    Both good forks but the QC of the Manitou is/was questionable (too early to tell with the Ohlins). So far with the Mezzer I've had 3 sets of lowers (current set has lasted the longest and seems to be a good one), one complete fork replacement, a replacement CSU and the damper side oil migrates up the damper side leg and stays there. Manitou have accepted all the issues but their comms are average and shipping replacement parts is slow.

  168. #2368
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    Mezzer LE

    Manitou Mezzer-mezzer_le.jpg

  169. #2369
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mezzer_le.jpg 
Views:	215 
Size:	63.9 KB 
ID:	1376901
    ... hmm, not for me. I think they might be going for some kind of vintage / throwback look, but personally, I'm glad forks are no longer silver.

  170. #2370
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    ... hmm, not for me. I think they might be going for some kind of vintage / throwback look, but personally, I'm glad forks are no longer silver.
    My buddy has a silver Pike on the bike he built his wife, I guess it's just a trend this year. Like all the strange colored Fox lowers, it looks very good on the right bike.

  171. #2371
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	mezzer_le.jpg 
Views:	215 
Size:	63.9 KB 
ID:	1376901
    Mine arrived yesterday. Stickers are chunkier and it looks a lot sharper than that photo.

    Sent from the Shockcraft mobile typewriter
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  172. #2372
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    I think that might look pretty good with my raw aluminum frame.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  173. #2373
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    Quote Originally Posted by springs View Post
    it highlighted how tight it was getting my front wheel into the fork lowers of the Mezzer suggesting CCS86 was probably correct when he shaved the inside face of the lowers. Maybe an alignment tolerance issue there? The hub glides into the Ohlins with much less drama.


    There are two things at play there:


    • The paint applied to the axle cap flanges seems to be unaccounted for in the alignment stackup. It is a very small amount of thickness to remove from the stack. But, it does help the chassis friction to correct this.
    • The Mezzer has a wheel retention "feature". This, by far, is the reason the wheel feels tight when installing. The "ramps" leading the axle caps into the flange area aren't tangent with that flange. They form a perimeter wall that partially captures the axle caps. This makes it so you can remove the axle without the wheel falling out. It will stay in place without the axle. If you don't care about this, you could sand/file down this extra material, and the wheel would slot in easily.

  174. #2374
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    So, pulled the trigger on one of these. I just hope it arrives with no damaged stanchions, with bleed ports, without binding issues, with no bend shims etc. etc.

    Supposedly it has more effective dampening than my Lyrik, where the dials don't really do anything. Crossing fingers!

  175. #2375
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    Quote Originally Posted by boellefisk View Post
    Supposedly it has more effective dampening than my Lyrik, where the dials don't really do anything. Crossing fingers!
    Hey that's not true. The dials go full open (sort of works, but slow speed diving) to super shitty feeling.

    my bandaid is MRP ramp control for high speed compression and just deal with slow speed diving.

  176. #2376
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    I don't see this color fork for sale anywhere. Where did you find this?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  177. #2377
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    Talk to me about Mezzer Pro HBO Circuit

    From what I understand the Mezzer Pro HBO is hydraulic and 30mm.

    Seems like I get to the edge of the HBO on travel but never into it.

    Just for comparison I am 225lbs and on F36 & Lyrik I could get into that last bit of travel on my normal rides and especially on big g-outs.

    Does any part of the compression circuit HSC/LSC have any impact on HBO?

    Fork set at 150mm

  178. #2378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I don't see this color fork for sale anywhere. Where did you find this?
    These were a limited edition run that is all sold out. Orders were months back when life was crazy.
    Pretty easy to replicate though.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-shockcraft-mezzer-chrome-insta5.jpg  

    Last edited by Dougal; 1 Week Ago at 01:00 AM.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  179. #2379
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    looks like they have one silver 29, 180mm, 44 offset in stock here.
    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop....php?id=100021

  180. #2380
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    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.

  181. #2381
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    Can't they just be pushed in by hand like RS seals?
    But yeah, I'd be interested in it, but I guess it isn't practical since you are US based, right?

  182. #2382
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    $1,099? That is an expensive paint job! I like my black Mezzer even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    looks like they have one silver 29, 180mm, 44 offset in stock here.
    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop....php?id=100021

  183. #2383
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugelick View Post
    looks like they have one silver 29, 180mm, 44 offset in stock here.
    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop....php?id=100021
    Thanks much. My bike is 27.5 though and I think a black one will be fine.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  184. #2384
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    I'd be interested. Guess i'll need it eventually.

  185. #2385
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    Mezzer seals also fit a BOS fork. I've had my stock cleaned out a few times by people needing them.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  186. #2386
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    sure, +1

  187. #2387
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    For sure, would be greatly appreciated!

    Memory hazy but did you also make the wrench for marra pro air can?

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

  188. #2388
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    Yup, count me in.

  189. #2389
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    Quote Originally Posted by croakies View Post
    For sure, would be greatly appreciated!

    Memory hazy but did you also make the wrench for marra pro air can?

    Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
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  190. #2390
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    Yes, that would be great!

  191. #2391
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    Why hell yes I would be interested in a seal driver, count me in

  192. #2392
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    Quote Originally Posted by boellefisk View Post
    Can't they just be pushed in by hand like RS seals?
    But yeah, I'd be interested in it, but I guess it isn't practical since you are US based, right?
    They seem to be tighter/stronger then RS seals I've done as I'm not able to just push them in by hand.

  193. #2393
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    Yes please. Count me in.
    Pole Evolink 140

  194. #2394
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    Me too! Thanks for the initiative!

  195. #2395
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    An estimate of the HSC shim stack preload and some different springs from rotorclip. The MWL all have roughly the same rate in a given diameter. The last letter is the height, so the longer springs add preload. MWM is a stiffer spring (the stock spring is roughly MWM-14 B, (shorter and stiffer). I think the MWL-14 C is the most intersting as it has VERY LITTLE preload in actual use and in the stiffest position is about 1 click out from fully hard compared to stock.

    FWIW, they do not stock the flat (shim) faced versions of these springs. However, they sent me some samples of the springs without flat faces and they look like they will work fine. It might be possible to get the flat face version as a bulk order though. The part number changes a bit depending on the material selected.
    MWL-14SQ CF - stainless, flat faced
    MWL-14ST CF - steel, flat faced
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-hsc-spring.jpg  

    Manitou Mezzer-img_20201118_111201%7E2.jpg  

    Manitou Mezzer-img_20201118_111814%7E2.jpg  


  196. #2396
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    Compression basevalve lapped with 1000 grit then 1500.

    Upper right - original
    Upper left - this was actually a decent amount of the way in. Maybe 60% of the total lapping effort.
    Lower left - 80%
    Lower right - final after 1500 grit


    Feature (dished) or manufacturing???
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mezzer-20201118_211032-collage.jpg  


  197. #2397
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    They seem to be tighter/stronger then RS seals I've done as I'm not able to just push them in by hand.
    Then I'd be very interested. How do you get them out? Can you just pry them loose with a flathead screwdriver?

  198. #2398
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike156 View Post
    Drew up a fork seal driver to have printed after seeing the Manitou driver is $50. Anybody else interested in one? Cost of materials and shipping is all I'd be taking.
    I would like to get in in this as well, please and thank you!

  199. #2399
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    I use a driver made by Unior, works just fine. https://uniorusa.com/collections/sus...ion-guide-1702

  200. #2400
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    Quote Originally Posted by otsdr View Post
    I use a driver made by Unior, works just fine. https://uniorusa.com/collections/sus...ion-guide-1702
    I have used the 35/36mm one on a 36. was a really loose fit in the seal, nothing like the RS one on RS seal. i can see this working
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