Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    We the people ... Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock

    So I have been a big fan of Manitou for the last few years as they have really stepped up in their customer service when I have needed it. My first interaction with them was a few years ago when I first built up my hardtail and installed a Manitou Tower Pro 100mm. This was the first year it came out so it came with the MEDIUM stiffness spring which I quickly found out was not quite sufficient for my 200lbs riding weight. Quick call from my LBS and $100 later for the new FIRM spring and install and I was good to go.

    Throughout the life of the fork/bike I have been in contact with Manitou with regards to tuning the fork and they have always been super responsive even at one point getting a call from Ed Katowski (sp?) one of their lead suspension design engineers. He spent well over an hour on the phone with me on tuning the fork for my riding conditions and style and even worked with another member on the forums here to develop a CLYDE specific spring which they ultimately released.

    Last year I built a new FS 29er Trail bike specifically because the steel HT was killing my back on longer rides, which I love doing. Unfortunately the reviews of the LONGER Tower Pro where not that great as most felt there was quite a bit of lateral flex in the fork making it feel noodly. I found a deal I couldn't pass up on a 140mm RS Rev and haven't looked back.

    However, the one downfall (in my opinion) of the bike was the Fox Float CTD with Trail Adjust (Boost valve). While specifically tuned for this bike after less than half a season of riding the CTD stopped functioning and I began to have the same give in all settings no matter what I did. Talking with FOX they did not feel it was a warranty issue and rather that I had hit the 100hr threshold for the rebuild cycle (which I think is BS). Fox wanted me to fork out $180+ to have it rebuilt and thus the search began. Knowing that the Manitou Mcleod was due out late last season (2014) I was patiently waiting for it to show up on retail websites only never finding it.

    After a quick email to Manitou I found out that they had run into some production issues with one of their suppliers and on top of that were having and INCREDIBLE demand for the shock from their OE spec companies. Anyways a couple weeks ago I noticed it on CRC for a jaw dropping $280 shipped!!!

    I ordered one on Saturday and paid the extra $20 to have it shipped via express DHL so it will be here on Wednesday or Thursday. There are ZERO reviews of this shock so I will do my best to document everything I can on it. I purchased mine in the 190mm x 50mm for my frame. I have never done a full-blown review before but plan to do as much as I can with this so if you have suggestions on writing stuff or something you would specifically like to see let me know (either on here or via PM).

    In the mean time, I have contacted Manitou to see if there is rebuild documentation on the shock so that I can possibly give it a whirl on my own.

    For now.....
    The bike.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/ne...er-911051.html
    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    In my build thread there are examples of the trails I ride and living in No. Nevada I have access to everything in Lake Tahoe within an hour. This bike has seen everything from mild, flowing singletrack to more DH oriented rides like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride in South Lake Tahoe, CA or the Emerald Mountain in Steamboat Springs, CO. My normal trails are right next to my office so I ride them CONSTANTLY and have a good variety of fast and flowy singletrack to somewhat (mild) technical descents.

    Again I will post more when I get the shock, install it and get first rides in.

  2. #2
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    Here is the link for the product page on Manitou's website

    Their page does include Rebound and Damping Curve Graphs.

    The shock got here this afternoon, now just to get time to install it (probably this weekend).
    Initial impressions are the shock is very well made, machining is good and there are no sharp corners and the M seems to be actually etched into the can.

    Knobs all have very good feel to them moving smoothly but firmly. The IPA knob has what seems to be 4 different detent positions but definitely feels like it could have five with a small bit more movement. The blue rebound knob has not detents but is very firm and seems to stay in place.

    Overall weight according to my kitchen scale was a tick over 9oz (about 255g) but feels pretty light in hand. I plan on using the current FOX hardware to mount unless I run into problems then I will get new hardware as there are no issues with my bearings.

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr
    Last edited by gregnash; 03-11-2015 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #3
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    Saved for installation and first impressions.

    So went and had my LBS press out the stock bushings on the McLeod after talking with Dougal some. Literally took them 2 minutes (longer to find the tool than to get them out) and $5 to get it done.

    When I got home I did like Dougal said and used a knife to wedge between the edge of the bushing and the side of the shock and just worked it out. Once I got it far enough out they pulled out with a little force with my fingernails.

    After they were out I was able to easily press them in on the Manitou without issue, then the spacers went on and the shock mounted up with ZERO issue!!!!

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    Pressure was initially set at 150psi from the factory but when I sat on the bike it felt REAL stiff. Checked the sag with my Saggle and maybe had 10% sag... So dropped the pressure some to 125psi and that is right about 25% sag in the full open (Aggressive Descend) position. This feels COMPLETELY different than the FOX did but I am going to attribute that to the new shock with ZERO hours on it.

    When I set the shock to Trail Mode it had pretty decent give to it. Platform was a bit stiffer than the full open but not overly stiff. Seemed pretty comparable to Trail mode in the FOX. Then I set to Technical Climb (Trail Mode 2 I am calling it) and the got quite a bit stiffer with the platform ramping up pretty quickly. The final setting, Aggressive climb, is complete lockout in the sense that the shock will normally move about 5-15% but requires some serious input to move past that.

    Tomorrow will be the first ride on the new shock so I will play with the rebound and what not, unfortunately there are not detent positions for the rebound so it will be all by feel.

    Oh and FYI there are NO setup instructions in the box or on the site so this is definitely going to be a tweak and tune scenario.
    Last edited by gregnash; 03-13-2015 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #4
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    Yes, very interested in your impressions of the shock. Also, did you really pay $100 for the firm spring and install?
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  5. #5
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    I look forward to your review. I read Dougal's short review and he was very impressed.
    Can you post a picture of the shock when you get it? I'm interested in its remote capability.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yes, very interested in your impressions of the shock. Also, did you really pay $100 for the firm spring and install?
    It was something like that.... I did other stuff at that time too so wasn't just those two things (that would be a rip-off). But I did have my LBS do it because 1) the Tower took the special Semi-Bath oil which I didn't have regular oil let alone that, and 2) I was not comfortable taking the fork apart myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I look forward to your review. I read Dougal's short review and he was very impressed.
    Can you post a picture of the shock when you get it? I'm interested in its remote capability.
    Plan on taking plenty of pics of the shock and what not once I get it. Also, can you link Dougal's short review. I thought I remembered reading a short review on it somewhere but for the life of me could not find one so thought it must have been my imagination.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Plan on taking plenty of pics of the shock and what not once I get it. Also, can you link Dougal's short review. I thought I remembered reading a short review on it somewhere but for the life of me could not find one so thought it must have been my imagination.
    Sure, here it is.
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  8. #8
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    Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock

    Thanks for the info, that was the one I was thinking of and excited to get mine.


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  9. #9
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    Have you got four or five clicks on your IPA knob?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  10. #10
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    Havent actually received it yet but will let you know once I do.

  11. #11
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    ive had this shock on my giant trance for a few months now, paid $250 OTD from my local LBS, sometimes it pays to check there first. anyway, I installed a mattoc fork on the front and wanted to match the shock. had a fox rp23 which was ok, didn't really let me down but didn't do anything amazing for me either. so I got the mcloud and the mattoc dialed in with base setting and took the bike for a spin. the rear shock felt much more solid than the rp23. I purposely hit a few 3-4ft kickers and tried to land it hard to see how it would react. never bottomed out, im 175-180ish geared up. pedaling felt great. maestro is a thing of beauty as it is but it really felt like a hardtail when laying the power down and felt extremely controlled and supple over the baby gnar I encountered. weather here has been pure shit for the past few months so I don't have a ton of miles on it but initial impressions are good and that for 250 this shock is a killer value as long as durability is good
    1985 Trek 670
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  12. #12
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    @obs08 - post up some pics of everything!

    I am 190lbs outta the shower and about 200lbs kitted up with my hydro pack. My feelings are about the same as your with your RP23, the Float has worked (if that is what you call it) but really hasn't impressed me. After riding yesterday I was talking with my buddy and saying how it now feels like I just sink into the bike when I am just sitting pedaling. I actually thought that I had a flat at first but tire was just fine, then I thought maybe I had lost a bunch of pressure but the pressure is still at 180psi like the day I set it with about 30% sag.

    I think it is kinda BS that FOX requires a rebuild at 100hrs of riding to keep your warranty. Talking with my buddy he has never actually had his NUDE rebuilt on his Scott Genius and thinks it works just fine. I let him ride mine and he even said it just felt weird, like a low tire or something on a car that was just slightly dragging.

    Anyways, I look forward to getting the McLeod and then if I can only persuade Manitou to release a 29er version of the Mattoc, that would be stellar!

    EDIT: Oh and I did try to go through my LBS to get me the shock but they did not have an account with Manitou direct (nor did they want to set one up) and their distributor was telling them that they would not be available until April or May sometime.

  13. #13
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    oh man that sucks about the lbs, I gave them a BTI part number and he got it within a couple days. ill grab a couple pics when I get home tonight. youll like the shock for sure. it cost me almost $100 less than the rp23 I had on there and it feels way ahead. not a crazy amount of adjustments but to me it just feels right and works well. I don't think its worth paying double for a CC inline which was my other option
    1985 Trek 670
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  14. #14
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    Thanks for the thread. Just ordered one for myself so I'm looking forward to your impressions.

  15. #15
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    Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock

    Quote Originally Posted by obs08 View Post
    oh man that sucks about the lbs, I gave them a BTI part number and he got it within a couple days. ill grab a couple pics when I get home tonight. youll like the shock for sure. it cost me almost $100 less than the rp23 I had on there and it feels way ahead. not a crazy amount of adjustments but to me it just feels right and works well. I don't think its worth paying double for a CC inline which was my other option
    Yeah figuring that I can sell the Float and pay for half the McLeod. I am more of a set and forget type person so this sounds like it will be great. I have left my shock in the trail mode the entire time.


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  16. #16
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    Subscribing..... been waiting to hear more about this shock.

    Does the rebound only have 4 clicks? Looking at the damping graph on manitous site makes it appear that way.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Subscribing..... been waiting to hear more about this shock.

    Does the rebound only have 4 clicks? Looking at the damping graph on manitous site makes it appear that way.
    No clicks on rebound. It's smooth for the whole rotation.

    I just took the knobs off mine for a look. Yes they've been designed to fit a return spring in there for remote operation of the IPA.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    No clicks on rebound. It's smooth for the whole rotation.

    I just took the knobs off mine for a look. Yes they've been designed to fit a return spring in there for remote operation of the IPA.
    I guess that makes sense with the graph as well. Knob pretty stiff yo hold its placem

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I guess that makes sense with the graph as well. Knob pretty stiff yo hold its placem
    Just enough resistance to hold it's place. They turn easily with finger tips.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  20. #20
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    Updated second post with pics and initial unboxing.

  21. #21
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    Looks great!
    Now I'm all excited to get mine. Probably be here before the weekend if past performance from Chain Reaction is any indication. Always quick to get to the east coast.

  22. #22
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    Well unfortunately it looks like I wont be able to use my Fox mounting hardware. The eyelet size is the same between both shock, apparently uses standard 12.7mm, however the Manitou comes with bushings installed where my Fox has what looks like delrin bushing/spacer combo and then black spacers on the outside. Not sure if I can press those out or not but I do not have the special tool to remove the bushing. Talking with Scott at Switchback Bikes on recommendations, really dont want to spend another $100 for the du bushing tool and new bearings to go along with it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Well unfortunately it looks like I wont be able to use my Fox mounting hardware. The eyelet size is the same between both shock, apparently uses standard 12.7mm, however the Manitou comes with bushings installed where my Fox has what looks like delrin bushing/spacer combo and then black spacers on the outside. Not sure if I can press those out or not but I do not have the special tool to remove the bushing. Talking with Scott at Switchback Bikes on recommendations, really dont want to spend another $100 for the du bushing tool and new bearings to go along with it.
    Punch the Manitou DU bushings out and the FOX hardware will fit.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  24. #24
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    Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock

    So how do you get the white/cream colored bushings from the fox out or are you saying just get new ones?

    If so these are the ones you are talking about in what looks to be the appropriate size of m8x22.2mm.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    So how do you get the white/cream colored bushings from the fox out or are you saying just get new ones?

    If so these are the ones you are talking about in what looks to be the appropriate size of m8x22.2mm.

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    These?


    Get a knife blade in the gap between the shaft head and the collar of the bushing and twist, then get your finger-nails in. They pull out pretty easy.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  26. #26
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    Yeah those were what I was talking about. Ok will give that a try tomorrow.


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  27. #27
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    You might be able to use sockets to press out the du bushing. If not, RS makes a tool that is cheap or have the lbs do it for a few bucks.

  28. #28
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    Yeah don't want to risk messing it up myself by building a ghetto tool and did see that RS one on Amazon for like $20. I will buy that tool but am going to call my LBS and see if I can have them do it real quick on my lunch break or after work.

    I did find what looked to be the proper bushings last night while searching around on the internet but they were $18/ea, which really makes me then wonder if it would not be better just to switch to the needle bearings offered by RWC, since really you are already half way to the cost. Even going with a FOX based alternative is going to cost about $15/ea (if not more) so again with the RWC bearings being $30/ea will I see that much better performance from the needle bearings?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah don't want to risk messing it up myself by building a ghetto tool and did see that RS one on Amazon for like $20. I will buy that tool but am going to call my LBS and see if I can have them do it real quick on my lunch break or after work.

    I did find what looked to be the proper bushings last night while searching around on the internet but they were $18/ea, which really makes me then wonder if it would not be better just to switch to the needle bearings offered by RWC, since really you are already half way to the cost. Even going with a FOX based alternative is going to cost about $15/ea (if not more) so again with the RWC bearings being $30/ea will I see that much better performance from the needle bearings?
    They'll work a little better but I bet there aren't many people that would even be able to tell much difference between bearings and properly adjusted and lubed bushings.
    There simply isn't enough rotation of the shock pivots IMO to make that much of an impact in performance between the two.
    The upside of the bearings for me would be the fact that they're sealed. Unsealed bushings allow dirt ingress and need more periodic maintenance. No big deal, seeing as they take about 10 minutes to service.

  30. #30
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    Yeah see I am new to FS bikes so maintenance on stuff like pivots and bushings is not something I am completely aware of or know how to do properly. I do see where you are talking about the possibility of dirt ingress but really don't know if it is worth the extra $30+ for the needle bearings vs. standard bushing hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah see I am new to FS bikes so maintenance on stuff like pivots and bushings is not something I am completely aware of or know how to do properly. I do see where you are talking about the possibility of dirt ingress but really don't know if it is worth the extra $30+ for the needle bearings vs. standard bushing hardware.
    Personally I'm going with Manitou bushings on mine. If I don't care for the performance I'll upgrade and have the bushings for when the rollers inevitably wear out or fail.
    When you install your new shock you'll see how simple it is to service the pivots.

    I've been looking out the window whenever I hear a delivery truck-like sound. Really looking forward to this upgrade!

  32. #32
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    Yeah I had it on for a quick minute and sat on the bike, can definitely feel a platform difference between it and the Fox. In the full lockout mode the fox would still move quite a bit but the McLeod barely moves. Rest of the action is all very stiff but smooth at the same time and you can feel the difference.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I did find what looked to be the proper bushings last night while searching around on the internet but they were $18/ea, which really makes me then wonder if it would not be better just to switch to the needle bearings offered by RWC, since really you are already half way to the cost. Even going with a FOX based alternative is going to cost about $15/ea (if not more) so again with the RWC bearings being $30/ea will I see that much better performance from the needle bearings?
    The new Fox bushings are the way to go. Your linkage won't benefit much from needle bearings.

  34. #34
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    My Santa Cruz has a decent amount of rotation at the shock and needle bearings improved the feel a lot. Tried them on my Niner, which doesn't have as much rotation and it didn't seem to make a difference.

    Recently picked up a Swinger and really like it. Interested to hear about the McLeod as my Niner can't take a piggyback shock.

  35. #35
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    Well that was easy, literally took me longer to drive to the shop than for them to take the bushings out. So 2 minutes and $5 later I can now place the Fox bushings in. I will do that tonight when I get home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    .... I do see where you are talking about the possibility of dirt ingress but really don't know if it is worth the extra $30+ for the needle bearings vs. standard bushing hardware.
    Its worth replacing lower bushing with needle bearing on our bikes. I felt huge difference when I did mine. Upper does not move as much so bushing is perfectly fine there.

  37. #37
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    I really appreciate the great information from this thread.

    I agree about the needle bearings. You really only need one since one side of the shock has such little movement and the DU bushing there lasts twice as long. The other side moves faster and more rotation than the main pivots of the suspension which mostly all use bearings not bushings (except for Turner which are a major fukin PITA).

    I didn't know one could use the new Fox bushings on Manitou. I thought they had different diameters.

  38. #38
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    Nope apparently with the newer (according to their site 2011+) they went to the industry standard of 12.7mm ID. So once I got the old bushing pressed out by my LBS the new went right in like butta. Shock is on now.

    Oh and updated 3rd post with installation stuff.
    First ride will be tomorrow!! So stoked.... now if they would make a 29er version of the Mattoc....

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    We the people ... First Ride Impressions......

    Ok first ride review time....

    So on Friday when I got the bushing issues figured out I installed the shock and played with it in my driveway. I was basically just checking out how things felt and adjusting the rebound. I eventually found what felt like a good scenario and scheduled a ride with my buddy today (he had other things going on). The reason that I wanted him with me is that I was going to have him follow me and let me know how things were looking/reacting as we went over different terrain.

    My initial settings are as follow:
    Me: 203lbs completely kitted up with helmet and hydro pack that had 2L of water. Pack has spare tire, mini pump, shock pump, my phone, keys and other odds and ends.
    Bike: weighs in at 31.2lbs with pedals and heavy GEAX TNT front tire.

    Shock settings:
    Rebound: Does not have any detents to show where you are, there are 2 full rotations of the blue knob between full slow (+) and full fast (-). Full fast felt very very responsive but did not launch me from the seat at all. Rolling off the curbs on full fast (-) it would instantly hit the ground and hit it with authority, full slow (+) you could definitely tell it took the bike a moment to react and come back up. I tried both settings, at extremes, both sitting and standing and sitting is where I really noticed the difference.

    My setting that I felt was a decent compromise to start with was the dead middle, one full turn from full fast (-).
    Shock: (IPA) Platform level has four very distinct positions;
    Aggressive Descend: full open and squishy!
    Trail Control: Trail setting that is not quite full open but still
    pretty squishy.
    Technical Climb: Decent amount of platform added for trail
    climbs that have rocks, roots, etc.
    Aggressive Climb: Basically full lockout
    Air pressure was initially set at 150psi from the factory but when I got on the bike it felt REAL stiff no matter what setting the IPA was on. I measured the sag with my SAGGLE and literally it did not even register. I decided to drop the air pressure down and build it back up so I started at 120psi and measured. That gave me about 25% sag which is about where I like it (I like the rear a bit harder than the front). So with that set I left it there.

    Ride Impressions and Review
    This morning I went for a ride on our normal trails however I am going to have to redo the test as we were having 15-20mph winds with gusts into the 30s and 40s. There was one point where I came over a rock on a climb and was hit by a gust that knocked me over, yeah that bad (literally fell off the bike).

    We hit our normal route which is about six miles with a variety of terrain, climbs, elevation gain/loss and what not. Out of the gate you have a good 1.5 miles of climbing that is everything from hardpack to rocky trail to sand. In the climb I left the shock in the Aggressive Climb mode and logged some info when we got to our normal stopping point. My buddy said that the entire time he did not see the shock bob more than a few millimeters and this was 85% seated climbing.

    Next section of trail was some steep climbs with a couple switchbacks, climbs varying in degree of difficulty and technicality. For this I switched the IPA to Technical Climb and had my buddy watch. Again he said that the shock definitely moved a bit more but was not moving much at all for what we were doing.

    After that we have a short, twisty turny downhill section of flowy singletrack which I left the shock in the Technical Climb position. Reason for this is because the downhill is maybe 3/4 of a mile and then turns into a couple hundred yards of fireroad climb. During this section I was hitting different undulations, bumps, small jumps and rocks and the entire time it felt as though my ass was FIRMLY planted to the ground.

    At the top of the first road climb starts the next section, Creek Trail, which is a little over a mile long but all gravity fed downhill. This has everything from flowing turns, two rock garden chutes, a couple of sand pits, bridges and lots and LOTS of speed and fun!!!! This section is my absolute FAVORITE ride and during the fall it is filled with Aspen trees that are changing color making for pure elation. I switched the IPA to the Descend on this and let her rip! No matter what I went over, down, through or whatever I felt completely in contact with the ground the entire time, couple of jumps that I have felt like the rear was reaching out to grab the ground before I knew it was there. Really impressed with the response on this section and just how connected I felt with the trail.

    Once out of this section then it is a short half mile climb to the next flowy section of down hill and the last 1.5ish miles of trail. There is a short climb to get to the top and again all gravity fed downhill, not quite as much as the Creek Trail but you can get going REAL fast on this section. For here I throw her into Trail Control and let her rip. This is mostly loose over hard singletrack that has a few rocks and roots thrown in there but really that is maybe 10% of the trail, the rest is....well... just trail. Here the shock just flat performed, I felt just as connected as I did with the Creek Trail section but I actually had platform when I did need to stand and pedal a bit. The few small bumps or drops I went off felt like the rear end was instantly on the ground grabbing tracking and amazingly enough my buddy and I picked up a PR on this section today?! I figured that we were going to be slower because it felt like we were going almost directly into the wind here but apparently not. At the very end of this section there is a decent jump that you can hit. Previously with the FOX I had to make sure to really put my feet down before I got to far in the air so that I wouldnt over rotate and hit nose first. Today I hit that ***** and it felt like I never left the ground but my buddy said that was the second most air he has seen me get there.

    Here is a pic of travel that is being utilized. Looks like I still have about 10mm of travel left to use so I am going to mess with the sag/psi some more and see if I cant get it down all the way. With the FOX I was using every bit of travel, ring was just about to come off the cylinder body.

    Untitled by renofizz, on Flickr

    All-in-all today was a great ride, aside from the sucky wind which will hopefully be gone tomorrow. While I never felt that the FOX was a horrible shock it just felt....well... meh. With the McLeod I felt more connected with the ground and felt like the bike responded better than it ever has. So if the next few rides go like this I am sold on the McLeod. According to the Manitou manual the shock needs approximately 20hrs of break-in time to properly get everything going so I have my work cut out for me in the coming weeks but I have a feeling it will be ready for Sedona when I go there at the end of April!!! Color me impressed today!!

    Oh and as a side note, I got an email back from Manitou and apparently they are in production of the maintenance videos for the shock. Their plan is that YES this will be a customer serviceable shock for normal wear stuff with more major rebuilds something that have not decided on yet.
    Last edited by gregnash; 03-16-2015 at 09:06 AM.

  40. #40
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    Ok update for today...

    Did same trail as above however I decided to lower the psi in the shock simply because of the remaining travel I was seeing. I lowered the shock to 110psi and the same exact setup of trails with switching the IPA in the same areas. Buddy rode with me again and said that he could see a slight difference but nothing huge.

    He said he could tell in the Aggressive Climb (lockout) that I had a slight bit more give in the shock than before. I could feel a slight difference going over bumps, rocks and whatnot in the trail but nothing ground breaking or severely different.

    Once we got to the Creek Trail section I made sure to switch into Aggressive Descend (wide open) and let her rip.. Same thing as yesterday, rear end stayed planted the entire time but did feel like it absorbed stuff a bit better. Main difference was felt on larger hits where I felt like the ramp up towards the end was not quite as quick. This was a bit more linear ramp than I felt yesterday, still very supple though still does not feel harsh to me at all.

    Between this section and the last flowy section he said that he could definitely see that the rear end did everything it could to keep itself planted to the ground. We had his trail dog with us today so we had more frequent stops (water the pooch) to discuss. He did say that going over one of the smaller rock jumps on the Creek Trail that he watched me take off the jump and before I could push my heels for the landing the rear end was already making its move. He is thinking I may have the rebound set a bit too fast but the responsiveness feels good and I do not feel like it is packing up or anything.

    With the reduced psi I am now getting what looks like full travel (couple of millimeters between the end of the shaft and the ring (about half to 2/3 of the distance in the pic above). Small bump compliance on this thing is still great, never felt like I was sagging way into the travel (the FOX felt like I had a flat tire at 180psi) and definitely has much better feel.

    So I think I may try dropping to 100psi to see what happens when I ride next. I have never felt like I am bottoming out or even close for that matter. I will double-check the sag on the shock with 110psi in it (did not do that) and then make adjustments. Like I said earlier, I like a more firm rear suspension and softer front suspension (how Fabian Barel has his bikes setup). Once I find the limit of the shock then I will add PSI until I find my good compromise sweet spot. But all in all still very impressed with the handling of the shock.

  41. #41
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    Thanks for the excellent review! It'll give me some insight as to what to expect when I get mine.
    Hasn't arrived yet. But it's been 6 days with a weekend thrown in so I expect probably today or tomorrow and I'll be messing with mine.

    So is this the official Mcleod shock thread? It'll be a while before mine can hit the trails due to there still being a foot and a half of snow on them (then ice, then mud, then ride!) but I could throw some pics and impressions up here? Or start my own "Hey Mcleod, get off of my ewe" (or something almost as catchy) thread.

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    @barman1 - Feel free to add what you want when you get yours and can ride. I have no problem with making this an "official" thread. I plan to add information as I go along and find different things out, like if 100psi will be enough for my riding without bottoming out or feeling like I am wallowing.

    Once I get set on a setup (probably in the next week or so) I plan on then just racing to the proposed "break-in" point of 20hrs. From there I will put up periodic reviews on how I feel the shock does and whatnot.

    Would a video of the trails I am riding along with a Strava link be of interest in this? For me and my analytics side it would be so that I could see what is being talked about but that is just me.

    Oh and if you ordered yours from CRC you should be getting it shortly, everyone says that they really do have fast shipping even on their free shipping (site said 4-8 business days for me) but if you have that much snow (please send some our way) then it may be a bit before you can really ride.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    @barman1 - Feel free to add what you want when you get yours and can ride. I have no problem with making this an "official" thread. I plan to add information as I go along and find different things out, like if 100psi will be enough for my riding without bottoming out or feeling like I am wallowing.

    Once I get set on a setup (probably in the next week or so) I plan on then just racing to the proposed "break-in" point of 20hrs. From there I will put up periodic reviews on how I feel the shock does and whatnot.

    Would a video of the trails I am riding along with a Strava link be of interest in this? For me and my analytics side it would be so that I could see what is being talked about but that is just me.

    Oh and if you ordered yours from CRC you should be getting it shortly, everyone says that they really do have fast shipping even on their free shipping (site said 4-8 business days for me) but if you have that much snow (please send some our way) then it may be a bit before you can really ride.
    You know the answer to that. Everyone likes video.

    I've ordered through CRC quite a bit but for some reason this is the first time I got the free shipping?? That's why it's taking a bit longer I expect.
    No problem though, I'm in no rush and they've always treated me well.

    And there's more snow on the way this weekend. Not helpful.

  44. #44
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    I was sweating it a little but received the shock yesterday.
    Simple install as expected and the Manitou bushings have less stick than the stock Fox polymer(?) bushings. When torqued properly the Fox bushings didn't move freely at all.
    The Manitou is 1.9 oz heavier than the Float CTD but hopefully that little extra weight equates to something positive.
    I'm expecting it will. Larger range of adjustment and already feels stiffer and more progressive through its travel at lower pressure.
    Can't wait to put it through its paces. Just waiting for some better conditions before I put this bike on the trail. I'm riding my Highball till then. Only want to rebuild one bike after mud season is over.


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    Nice dude... you wont be disappointed. I have been down with a sinus infection for the last week so yesterday was the first time I have been out on the bike in a week. Ride was real mellow as a buddy just moved back into town, hasn't ridden since the last time he and I rode which was 3yrs ago and his bike is still in Virginia so he is borrowing my Inbred HT 29er for the time being. Getting him reacquainted with the trails. But as we were riding we hit the halfway point (did pretty much the normal ride I have done with the McLeod) and realized I had it in full open the entire time and never noticed, granted I did not stand and mash the pedals at any point nor were we going hard but quite impressed that I never felt like I was sagging way into the suspension or bobbing like crazy while pedaling.

  46. #46
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    Subscribed... Currently deciding on if I should push the ctd on my Norco or go with the McLeod. Thanks for all the updates!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by obs08 View Post
    oh man that sucks about the lbs, I gave them a BTI part number and he got it within a couple days. ill grab a couple pics when I get home tonight. youll like the shock for sure. it cost me almost $100 less than the rp23 I had on there and it feels way ahead. not a crazy amount of adjustments but to me it just feels right and works well. I don't think its worth paying double for a CC inline which was my other option
    My LBS told me $320 (which is retail cost) from BTI so you must have a lot more pull than the normal customer.

  48. #48
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    Ok so got out for a LONG ride today with some very sustained and flowy downhill. Total ride time was little over 2hrs and 16 miles with 2300' of elevation change. All in all a great ride and it was the first time my buddy and I have put this loop together with a new trail section.

    For the 5 miles worth of climbing we did I had the bike locked out and did not once feel like I had any issues with pedal bob. This included some short and seriously steep sections and sustained sections of fireroad climbing with some standing and mashing pedals as this was the first ride for both of us in over a weeks time (and me coming off a sinus infection/cold).

    Once we got to the fun part I went ahead and flipped the lever to full descend figuring that the small sections of climbing that we would have were short enough to not warrant me flipping out of descend. All I can say is damn, the shock responded incredibly, platform and ramp up were very supple and kept trail features in traction all the time. In one section my buddy was right on my tail and watching the shock and he said that he could definitely see it moving and working but did not think he ever saw my rear wheel leave the ground unless I was hopping or doing a jump. We ended up getting a number of PRs on Strava today with a majority of them being on the newer section of trails (which we have only ridden a handful of times).

    Still utterly impressed with this shock and the responsiveness that I get from it now. Like I have said in the past, the FOX was ok but always just felt kinda Meh.. This on the other hand seems to actively work and keep my rear planted but still seems to offer and incredibly plush ride no matter what setting I am in or if that is the correct one for the section I am doing. I will plan to update periodically from now on with how it is doing.

    If you have gotten a McLeod and put it on your bike feel free to chime in with your settings and PSI and riding impressions. For me, color me impressed and sold! FOX is going up on ebay tomorrow.

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    Figured I would throw my Strava up from Saturday. This is the clockwise route of the connector which requires a lot of road climbing but after that is nothing more than an awesome sustained downhill with only a few pedaly sections.

    <iframe height='405' width='590' frameborder='0' allowtransparency='true' scrolling='no' src='https://www.strava.com/activities/279258773/embed/e5c8c7f2a9ac9f35dd6cdbd4c8fdc730121f196c'></iframe>

  50. #50
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    Thanks for the thorough review. I am curious how the McLeod compares to the new Fox. Right away I see how much the bank account like the Manitou.

  51. #51
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    Tagging this thread as I will most likely be ordering one next week.

    Thanks for all the info!

  52. #52
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    Manitou Mcleod Rear Shock

    Keeping my eyes on this and the Vorsprung Suspension corset air sleeve for the Fox.


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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMILES View Post
    Keeping my eyes on this and the Vorsprung Suspension corset air sleeve for the Fox.


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    There's only so much you can do with an air-sleeve. It is the damper that makes or breaks the ride.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  54. #54
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    Got it today. Hoping to get out for a ride tomorrow, if not it will be Sunday afternoon.


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    Nice alphajaguars you will have to let us know what your thoughts are on it. I took mine to Sedona last week and did freaking great. Still incredibly impressed with this shock and cannot recommend it enough.


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  56. #56
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    Been eyeballing this shock but there isn't a lot of info / reviews available. One with some info : SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform . I decided to call Manitou and ask a few questions about the shock. I asked if the air volume was adjustable via spacers, different cans etc. There response was it was too new... Is it really that new? I asked a few more general questions but had similar answers. I currently have a Tower fork & Prime brakes so I have experience w/ Manitou Hayes CS. My current fox RP23 lacks support (wallows) & is a bit harsh on high speed trail chatter. Would like a supportive compliant shock that isn't soft like a marshmallow but not stiff as a hardtail.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Been eyeballing this shock but there isn't a lot of info / reviews available. One with some info : SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform . I decided to call Manitou and ask a few questions about the shock. I asked if the air volume was adjustable via spacers, different cans etc. There response was it was too new... Is it really that new? I asked a few more general questions but had similar answers. I currently have a Tower fork & Prime brakes so I have experience w/ Manitou Hayes CS. My current fox RP23 lacks support (wallows) & is a bit harsh on high speed trail chatter. Would like a supportive compliant shock that isn't soft like a marshmallow but not stiff as a hardtail.
    Yes it really is that new. I have one of the first 20 shocks and only received it late last year.
    It has been engineered to take everything. Including remotes. But the accessories aren't available yet.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  58. #58
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    Wow! I thought it had been out for almost a year.

    Question - what psi are you running? There was no lit with it that gave me an idea what they have designed it around. Not even an idea on sag.

    I weigh about 187 kitted out.

  59. #59
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    They released it last year at SOC14 but there were some production issues and the initial plan of late summer release was scrapped. I was able to finally grab one off CRC in Feb '15 when I noticed them show up. Talking with my LBS they were showing a late MAY '15 release date from their distributor and for them they said that would probably be a close stretch.

    So I buckled and decided to grab from CRC. I am 203ish kitted up (193ish out of the shower to I add 10lbs for kit) and I am running my 190x51mm version at 110psi. That psi seems to be pretty good but may bump it back up to see if it stiffens up the initial feel but does not lose the small bump compliance. For me there has been ZERO need to even think about volume adjustment or anything like that. I have a feeling that if you did grab one you would be impressed at the low psi and still great compliance all around of the shock without it feeling harsh or overly stiff.

  60. #60
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    I'd hazard a guess and say I grabbed one of the first available then as my LBS told me 2 weeks ago they weren't available, and then last week they were.

    I am running the 157x32. No idea if that means I'd have to run higher psi or not. Raining today, so not going to get out on it until Sunday.

  61. #61
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    I ended up just getting my fox push tuned but I will be purchasing a McLeod later this summer because I really want to tinker with one.

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    For the 157x32 I don't know that it will necessarily mean you will have to run more pressure. I think it come down to setup for your bike and you. For me the 190x50 has been phenomenal at 110psi but as I said before I may bump up to 115 or 120psi to see if I can notice any difference.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    For the 157x32 I don't know that it will necessarily mean you will have to run more pressure. I think it come down to setup for your bike and you. For me the 190x50 has been phenomenal at 110psi but as I said before I may bump up to 115 or 120psi to see if I can notice any difference.


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    I'm 215 running my Superlight 29 single pivot with the Mcleod at around 120 psi with good results. At 110 psi I had too much sag.
    I like mine to be set it and forget it so I do run pressures a little high so there will be no bottoming and a firmer ride for my XC to AM, all hills, rocks and roots.
    So far I'm having great luck with the Mcleod rear and Tower Pro up front. I'm powering through sections that had me off the bike in the past and there's no difference in me. Still the same exact weight, just another season older. Must be the bike???

  64. #64
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    Here's a shot of mine a couple of weeks ago when there was still snow on the trails.
    I was setting up pressure and doing some stair riding in a local empty amphitheater in a state park. Fun but I realized there's no room for error...


  65. #65
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    Just got back from my first ride.

    Did my first lap set at 150, rebound in the middle, and on the 2nd firmest platform.

    Second lap I pumped it up to 155 and flipped it to the firmest setting.

    First lap it felt "dead". Like it was just absorbing every thing. Really liked it.

    Second lap I added in a road section so I could watch the shock for movement while climbing. I detected zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Really impressed me when I went over a speed bump and the shock sucked it right up and went back to a very firm platform.

    However, once I hit the single track, it was bouncing around too much. I then flipped it t the softest setting. Bobbed too much, so back to the second firmest. Really enjoyed it at 155 psi as it made it a tad firmer than at 150, but it still sucked everything up.

  66. #66
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    Wow! 150psi seems like a lot from what I ride and my terrain is anything but forgiving. And really I am mainly using lock out and full open at this point. Still been highly impressed with the large and larger jumps I am taking and I am 200 kitted, 6' and a semi aggressive rider.


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  67. #67
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    I got a chance to do a very short ride on the new McLeod today. I wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be. I was wanting a little more platform than the DT Swiss EX200 I have on the 2013 Scott Genius. The EX200 was not the original shock but I put it on because the original shock was too stiff, so I was hoping for a sweet spot in the middle.
    I didn't get that much time on it, but to be honest, if I hadn't known I put the McLeod on there, I would have swore it was still the EX200. It performed exactly the same in all regards....very strange! Definitely not bad at all.
    The upside is that I have the special tool needed to adjust the IFP chamber, so I may try to add some air and see if that changes anything. It should. The IFP chamber (I think it is called) is accessed on the shaft on the end. The cap is a 5 sided nut. Fox says they use nitrogen in that chamber but old Manitou shocks used air. I will likely contact Manitou tech and ask them what is the max pressure so I don't over do it.
    BTW, my Scott does not have as much anti-squat as your Thumper does Greg, so it requires more platform.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I got a chance to do a very short ride on the new McLeod today. I wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be. I was wanting a little more platform than the DT Swiss EX200 I have on the 2013 Scott Genius. The EX200 was not the original shock but I put it on because the original shock was too stiff, so I was hoping for a sweet spot in the middle.
    I didn't get that much time on it, but to be honest, if I hadn't known I put the McLeod on there, I would have swore it was still the EX200. It performed exactly the same in all regards....very strange! Definitely not bad at all.
    The upside is that I have the special tool needed to adjust the IFP chamber, so I may try to add some air and see if that changes anything. It should. The IFP chamber (I think it is called) is accessed on the shaft on the end. The cap is a 5 sided nut. Fox says they use nitrogen in that chamber but old Manitou shocks used air. I will likely contact Manitou tech and ask them what is the max pressure so I don't over do it.
    BTW, my Scott does not have as much anti-squat as your Thumper does Greg, so it requires more platform.
    So it didn't have enough platform in the maximum setting? Won't changing the IFP pressure just vary the dampning compression rate across the full travel of the shock.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I got a chance to do a very short ride on the new McLeod today. I wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be. I was wanting a little more platform than the DT Swiss EX200 I have on the 2013 Scott Genius. The EX200 was not the original shock but I put it on because the original shock was too stiff, so I was hoping for a sweet spot in the middle.
    I didn't get that much time on it, but to be honest, if I hadn't known I put the McLeod on there, I would have swore it was still the EX200. It performed exactly the same in all regards....very strange! Definitely not bad at all.
    The upside is that I have the special tool needed to adjust the IFP chamber, so I may try to add some air and see if that changes anything. It should. The IFP chamber (I think it is called) is accessed on the shaft on the end. The cap is a 5 sided nut. Fox says they use nitrogen in that chamber but old Manitou shocks used air. I will likely contact Manitou tech and ask them what is the max pressure so I don't over do it.
    BTW, my Scott does not have as much anti-squat as your Thumper does Greg, so it requires more platform.
    What are you doing that needs so much platform? You did try all the IPA settings right?

    IFP pressure will not change the platform. These are not SPV. How much pressure and sag are you running?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  70. #70
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    150 was giving me about 30% sag. I tried 140 to see and sag jumped to something close to 40%. I figure at 155 I am probably about 25% and getting damn near full travel.

    For comparison, I was running 190 in the RP3 I took off.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    What are you doing that needs so much platform? You did try all the IPA settings right?

    IFP pressure will not change the platform. These are not SPV. How much pressure and sag are you running?
    Only the full IPA setting worked perfectly for what I use it for which is standing on the pedals.
    Unlike a lot of people, I am constantly changing the platform to suit the situation whether it be standing and mashing, smooth surface, rocks, etc. which is why I use a remote. The lower IPA settings behaved just like my EX200, but I have older Manitou shocks that had much better platform while still opening up perfectly when I hit a bump; but did not have a remote option. They used SPV or some similar technology.

    How will changing the IFP pressure affect the shock?

  72. #72
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    [QUOTE=yogiprophet;11945329]

    Unlike a lot of people, I am constantly changing the platform to suit the situation whether it be standing and mashing, smooth surface, rocks, etc. which is why I use a remote.

    The lower IPA settings behaved just like my EX200, but I have older Manitou shocks that had much better platform while still opening up perfectly when I hit a bump; but did not have a remote option.

    I ride on vastly changing terrain as well riding a very active 4 bar suspension. I have run a number of shocks to find a balance between good small bump performance and optimal pedalling platform. Trying to have your cake and eat it too is a tall order for an active suspension running such small simple shock's. I posed this question to a suspension tuner and was told to find a frame that didn't rely so heavily on shock platform ie. DW Link, Maestro etc. I'd contact Manitou and see if the shock can be internally tuned. Off the shelf shock's work for a lot of riders but not all.

    From what I have read the original custom tuned Nude TwinLoc shock configuration was well suited for the application.

  73. #73
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    Yea, it is a tall order and a crap shoot when buying a new shock.
    I had a DW link Sultan. Not all DW links are the same. What the suspension tuner was talking about was that if you have a bike with a sufficient amount of anti-squat, the shock doesn't have to deal with providing all of the platform. The problem with too much anti-squat is that the shock needs to have so little platform for the bike to perform correctly so when you get out of the saddle (with the shock on full platform) the suspension is moving all over the place. As I get older, I need to stand a lot more so a bike like the Sultan doesn't work so well for me. My Tallboy LT is a perfect balance of anti-squat in that that the shock seems to do about half of the platform work and the suspension doesn't have too bad of pedal feedback. The Genius on the other hand has hardly any feedback which is great for pedaling through rock gardens.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    Only the full IPA setting worked perfectly for what I use it for which is standing on the pedals.
    Unlike a lot of people, I am constantly changing the platform to suit the situation whether it be standing and mashing, smooth surface, rocks, etc. which is why I use a remote. The lower IPA settings behaved just like my EX200, but I have older Manitou shocks that had much better platform while still opening up perfectly when I hit a bump; but did not have a remote option. They used SPV or some similar technology.

    How will changing the IFP pressure affect the shock?
    Okay, you're a masher who needs a firm lockout. The McLeod isn't really a lockout shock, it's just four stages of platform and targetted at trail riders.

    The Radium has a lockout. The previous SRL, S-Type etc shocks were the pre-decessors to the Radium.

    It is possible to build a Swinger with a lockout. One of Manitou's sponsored Enduro riders is running one. But it's not an off the shelf item.

    Increasing IFP pressure will add to spring force and add extra seal drag.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post

    It is possible to build a Swinger with a lockout. One of Manitou's sponsored Enduro riders is running one. But it's not an off the shelf item.
    It is off the shelf. I ordered a swinger for my son last year. It showed up with a lockout. Just check before ordering.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    It is off the shelf. I ordered a swinger for my son last year. It showed up with a lockout. Just check before ordering.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD so please forgive the typos that occur when typing with two fingers.
    Interesting. Got pics?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Manitou Swinger Pro Dual Can | Chain Reaction Cycles
    Is this maybe the one he got? Red lever at the top looks like a lock-out lever.

    So pumped the shock up to 120psi today while also equaling out my Rev Dual air.. Ride was definitely more harsh as my hands were tired after only an hour ride so got to play with settings more on that... Didnt really notice any difference with the McLeod, there were times where it felt a bit more harsh and I did washout in one section that I have never washed out in before which I am attributing to the change to the fork.

    Anyways, I know I know only change one thing at a time..

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Manitou Swinger Pro Dual Can | Chain Reaction Cycles
    Is this maybe the one he got? Red lever at the top looks like a lock-out lever.

    So pumped the shock up to 120psi today while also equaling out my Rev Dual air.. Ride was definitely more harsh as my hands were tired after only an hour ride so got to play with settings more on that... Didnt really notice any difference with the McLeod, there were times where it felt a bit more harsh and I did washout in one section that I have never washed out in before which I am attributing to the change to the fork.

    Anyways, I know I know only change one thing at a time..
    Yep, that's the elusive lockout swinger. I've never seen them in a catalogue so maybe an OEM spec that got split out.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    @Dougal, I've seen those lockout Swinger Experts for sale every now and then. Looks like they combined a Radium and a Swinger. I wonder how it, because the lockout mechanism is in the moving piston, so the IFP pressure must be very high.
    It does seem to have a normal tapered midvalve shimstack though, here are some pics:
    Manitou Swinger Expert Air | Seite 4 | MTB-News.de

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Okay, you're a masher who needs a firm lockout. The McLeod isn't really a lockout shock, it's just four stages of platform and targetted at trail riders.

    The Radium has a lockout. The previous SRL, S-Type etc shocks were the pre-decessors to the Radium.

    It is possible to build a Swinger with a lockout. One of Manitou's sponsored Enduro riders is running one. But it's not an off the shelf item.

    Increasing IFP pressure will add to spring force and add extra seal drag.
    Masher - Yes. Firm Lockout - No way! I think firm lockouts for mountain bikes make no sense. What I like is a firm platform that opens up under sharp impacts. It can be and has been done. The McLeod is awesome for an off the shelf shock and the price is very competitive. What I like about Fox is that they can be tuned to different suspension designs, but you have to pay to play. The McLeod is probably more suited for suspensions designs leaning towards the middle of the road in terms of anti-squat which makes sense.

    Just to be clear about what I mean I will expound. When I start pedaling while seated (in any IPA setting other than full) the suspension seriously squats...and I mean a lot. I usually only use full IPA for out of saddle climbing. I'm not into flipping the IPA to full every time I accelerate because that would get old, but if I don't the geometry changes so much that handling is affected along with the energy robbing affect of compressing the suspension for no reason. The original shock that came on the Genius was overly harsh instead of providing platform when in the trail mode, and lockout was almost full lockout which would only make sense for the road.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    Masher - Yes. Firm Lockout - No way! I think firm lockouts for mountain bikes make no sense. What I like is a firm platform that opens up under sharp impacts. It can be and has been done. The McLeod is awesome for an off the shelf shock and the price is very competitive. What I like about Fox is that they can be tuned to different suspension designs, but you have to pay to play. The McLeod is probably more suited for suspensions designs leaning towards the middle of the road in terms of anti-squat which makes sense.

    Just to be clear about what I mean I will expound. When I start pedaling while seated (in any IPA setting other than full) the suspension seriously squats...and I mean a lot. I usually only use full IPA for out of saddle climbing. I'm not into flipping the IPA to full every time I accelerate because that would get old, but if I don't the geometry changes so much that handling is affected along with the energy robbing affect of compressing the suspension for no reason. The original shock that came on the Genius was overly harsh instead of providing platform when in the trail mode, and lockout was almost full lockout which would only make sense for the road.
    I'd suggest giving the guy's @ X-Fusion a call (831) 221-5047. I had an older H2 PVA shock that when placed in "platform setting's" would keep the bike higher in its travel. X-Fusion can custom tune to your liking as well. X Fusion Shox - Shocks .

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    Masher - Yes. Firm Lockout - No way! I think firm lockouts for mountain bikes make no sense. What I like is a firm platform that opens up under sharp impacts. It can be and has been done. The McLeod is awesome for an off the shelf shock and the price is very competitive. What I like about Fox is that they can be tuned to different suspension designs, but you have to pay to play. The McLeod is probably more suited for suspensions designs leaning towards the middle of the road in terms of anti-squat which makes sense.

    Just to be clear about what I mean I will expound. When I start pedaling while seated (in any IPA setting other than full) the suspension seriously squats...and I mean a lot. I usually only use full IPA for out of saddle climbing. I'm not into flipping the IPA to full every time I accelerate because that would get old, but if I don't the geometry changes so much that handling is affected along with the energy robbing affect of compressing the suspension for no reason. The original shock that came on the Genius was overly harsh instead of providing platform when in the trail mode, and lockout was almost full lockout which would only make sense for the road.
    Is your bike a really high leverage ratio or something? It sounds like you're not running enough air pressure.

    Even the worst squatting bike can only increase the load on the rear shock by the weight that comes off the front wheel. Which is basically double static load and it only does that under hard enough acceleration (or steep enough climbing) to lift the front wheel.

    The McLeod is fully tunable internally. But I don't think that's your problem right now.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    @Dougal, I've seen those lockout Swinger Experts for sale every now and then. Looks like they combined a Radium and a Swinger. I wonder how it, because the lockout mechanism is in the moving piston, so the IFP pressure must be very high.
    It does seem to have a normal tapered midvalve shimstack though, here are some pics:
    Manitou Swinger Expert Air | Seite 4 | MTB-News.de
    Yes, that's the same sort of lockout used in the Radium, SRL, LRS and many other rear shocks. The SRL on the Merida's were using 400psi on the IFP to give enough lockout force without cavitation.

    Turns out I wasn't paying attention to my order forms. All 2014 and 2015 Swingers are listed as "lockout". I have read those descriptions many many times and never noticed that!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  85. #85
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    It seems to happen just as much on flat surfaces, but also on uphill tight switchbacks when there is a lot of acceleration from a slow speed.

    I just set the pressure to give between 25-30% sag which for my bike is 120 lb/in^2.

    The shock ratio is approx. 2.6/1

    If there is a way to tune it to help this I would be all over it.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    It seems to happen just as much on flat surfaces, but also on uphill tight switchbacks when there is a lot of acceleration from a slow speed.
    I agree with Dougal in that this squatting as described might be better handled by more spring versus more lsc damping. It so easy to try more spring, give it a try. Depending on how bad it is, it may only take 5psi. How much do you weigh?

    The pictures in this article give me a pretty good idea of how they are changing the compression damping with the IPA versus a Fox Float or RS Monarch.

    SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform

    It appears they are using a stepped piston face and the pushrod directly applies/removes preload to the stack by pushing on the id of the shims. There is no bleed/bypass circuit on the comp side. This is very interesting and completely different than how the Fox/RS changes damping with a spring loaded poppet. I really like the concept.

    Hopefully I can get my hands on one . . . at some point.

    How hard is it to un cap the ifp fill port?

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    SOC14: Manitou McLeod Rear Shock Digs Up Massive Adjustability in Modern Air Platform
    From the article :
    While the shock uses a standard air can for the main spring, the McLeod features a unique non-adjustable negative spring. Essentially the negative spring is created when you slide the air can on the shock body, trapping air between two seals which acts as the spring. Technically there is no “official” way to tune the negative spring, but we’re told that if you use a hair dryer on the can during assembly, the hot air will be less dense and offer a different tune.

    I asked Manitou about air can volume changes and was told the shock was too new. I didn't really care for that answer. If I am going to spend $$ and the shock doesn't perform correctly when if ever will air volume aids be available (maybe never???).

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I agree with Dougal in that this squatting as described might be better handled by more spring versus more lsc damping. It so easy to try more spring, give it a try. Depending on how bad it is, it may only take 5psi. How much do you weigh?

    How hard is it to un cap the ifp fill port?
    I weight 185 lb. I don't really see how adding a little more pressure will do anything other that starting the same squat action from a higher sag point, but I will try. It may not be good for geometry though.

    Vey easy to adjust the IFP if you have the correct tool. Manitou still may be selling these. I purchased one from them around 2007.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I weight 185 lb. I don't really see how adding a little more pressure will do anything other that starting the same squat action from a higher sag point, but I will try. It may not be good for geometry though.

    Vey easy to adjust the IFP if you have the correct tool. Manitou still may be selling these. I purchased one from them around 2007.
    Squat happens until the spring force builds to equal to the squat force and it becomes stable again.
    Thus the only way to reduce it is by more spring force. The IFP pressure is not going to help you here.

    You can't replace spring rate with damper platform.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    I wouldnt mess with the IFP on the McLeod if you're looking to alter platform (or at all for that matter). The shocks have their IFP pressure charged with nitrogen to specifically match the shim tune

    If you insist, I would check with Manitou as to what the oem charge pressure is so you can set it back to factory when you're done playing

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by notjustjeff View Post
    I wouldnt mess with the IFP on the McLeod if you're looking to alter platform (or at all for that matter). The shocks have their IFP pressure charged with nitrogen to specifically match the shim tune

    If you insist, I would check with Manitou as to what the oem charge pressure is so you can set it back to factory when you're done playing
    Thanks but i can do that myself and you guys talked me out of it anyway.
    I did just finally add a remote. i used the Fox newer 3 way lever which allowed me to set the middle setting on the lever to the 3rd IPA setting on the shock. The 3rd setting was perfect for my frame so all is well now. Now that it is broken in, I really do like this shock better than the DT in every way. I can now notice how it opens up a little quicker and has better platform than the DT. I look forward to doing a long burly ride tomorrow.

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    Does any of you McLeod's have experience with an Rockshox RT3 ?

    Searching for a new rear shock to replace my rp23.
    I'm searching for something with a full open - trail- and lockout mode.
    I also ride my mountain bike on the road, so a really firm lockout is essential.
    It is something I miss on my rp23. The McLeod and RT3 seam like the best options.

    How firm is the lockout on the rt3 and McLeod ?
    How diy is the rt3 and McLeod ? Hate to send it back and pay 100 euros just for maintenance (kuch kuch ... FOX ... kuch kuch )

    Thanks for the help

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiel91b View Post
    Does any of you McLeod's have experience with an Rockshox RT3 ?

    Searching for a new rear shock to replace my rp23.
    I'm searching for something with a full open - trail- and lockout mode.
    I also ride my mountain bike on the road, so a really firm lockout is essential.
    It is something I miss on my rp23. The McLeod and RT3 seam like the best options.

    How firm is the lockout on the rt3 and McLeod ?
    How diy is the rt3 and McLeod ? Hate to send it back and pay 100 euros just for maintenance (kuch kuch ... FOX ... kuch kuch )

    Thanks for the help

    Forget the RT3, Mcleoad hands down ;-)
    The level of damping is another level and the mcleod can be had for such a good price :-)
    I´d only instead try the X-Fusion stage as had the vector air which was very good.

  94. #94
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    Does the Macleod shock run a "tune" of any sort, or do they just work with a variety of frames with the way the valving is set up? I'm tempted to get one for my bike which runs a m/m tune Fox RP2 shock. I'm assuming that the Macleod will/should be a much better shock than the Fox and a more than adequate replacement.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

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    The webshops (bike-components and bike24) don't seem to offer any sort of tuning options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiel91b View Post
    The webshops (bike-components and bike24) don't seem to offer any sort of tuning options.
    So how would the Mcleod work with a dw liked bike? The Mattoc is making my dw linked rear feel turd like and I may need to fix this. The RP23 is already kashima coated and PUSHED so I am not sure how much more I am going to get out of the Fox unit..
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

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    Vespasianus I haved asked your question to someone in my local forum who rides a mc leod

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    From what I understand from Manitou, there are no tuning options that are off the shelf at this time. If you want a special tune you would have to work with them through your local authorized bike shop. Still no videos up on tuning or maintenance so I am going to shoot them and email. Unfortunately, I have been busy and down sick for the last 3wks so I have not touched my bike other than playing with tire change.

    Hopefully that will change tonight with a ride after work.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    Does the Macleod shock run a "tune" of any sort, or do they just work with a variety of frames with the way the valving is set up? I'm tempted to get one for my bike which runs a m/m tune Fox RP2 shock. I'm assuming that the Macleod will/should be a much better shock than the Fox and a more than adequate replacement.
    My testers don't notice the difference so much going from a Fox to a Mcleod. But they really hated going back.

    Aftermarket the McLeods are all sold in one tune that seems to suit the 140-170mm bikes very well. But internally they are fully revalvable I believe both with shim stacks and range of motion of the compression adjustment. There are also continual developments happening for the McLeod shocks.

    I have been right into my 200x56 McLeod for a look around and oil change. I'm leaving my 190x50 unmolested.
    It is hands-down the best and easiest shock to service I have worked on.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    My testers don't notice the difference so much going from a Fox to a Mcleod. But they really hated going back.

    Aftermarket the McLeods are all sold in one tune that seems to suit the 140-170mm bikes very well. But internally they are fully revalvable. There are also continual developments happening for the McLeod shocks.
    Dougal did your testers also test the RT3 and the DT Swiss x313 ?

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