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Thread: Manitou Mattoc

  1. #4801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankyanken View Post
    Does anyone know if you can put Mattoc Pro parts (MC2 damper, rebound, IRT) onto the Mattoc comp?
    AFAIK, no on all three accounts.

  2. #4802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankyanken View Post
    Does anyone know if you can put Mattoc Pro parts (MC2 damper, rebound, IRT) onto the Mattoc comp?
    I believe you can't. If I remember correctly, the stanchion inner diameter is different and/or the threading.

  3. #4803
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    AFAIK, no on all three accounts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    I believe you can't. If I remember correctly, the stanchion inner diameter is different and/or the threading.
    Thank you for the information - I bought a Mattoc Pro cheap that has a mangled dorado foot nut, so I was going to convert the parts over since you can get the comp fork at half the cost. I have parts on order just in case I can actually get it separated from the lowers, but it does not look pretty at all. The dude actually mangled the top cap for the IRT valve as well, he said all he had was a large crescent wrench... I was able to at least get that removed along with MC2 damper. Thankfully, that was not wrenched on at all. Once parts arrive I will attempt to remove the foot nut from the lowers, but I am betting on I will have to take more drastic measures like drilling it out. If y'all want some cringe-worthy pics, just let me know. BTW, if this doesn't work out, I will be selling some of the parts, but keeping others (seals, bushings, etc.) for my own Mattoc. MTC

  4. #4804
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankyanken View Post
    Thank you for the information - I bought a Mattoc Pro cheap that has a mangled dorado foot nut, so I was going to convert the parts over since you can get the comp fork at half the cost. I have parts on order just in case I can actually get it separated from the lowers, but it does not look pretty at all. The dude actually mangled the top cap for the IRT valve as well, he said all he had was a large crescent wrench... I was able to at least get that removed along with MC2 damper. Thankfully, that was not wrenched on at all. Once parts arrive I will attempt to remove the foot nut from the lowers, but I am betting on I will have to take more drastic measures like drilling it out. If y'all want some cringe-worthy pics, just let me know. BTW, if this doesn't work out, I will be selling some of the parts, but keeping others (seals, bushings, etc.) for my own Mattoc. MTC
    For emergency foot bolt removal.

    Undo the piston from the top and wind-out the valve rod so the shaft foot is hollow. Then tap it to M5, wind in a M5 socket head screw and that will give you enough self-tightening leverage to break it loose.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  5. #4805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    For emergency foot bolt removal.

    Undo the piston from the top and wind-out the valve rod so the shaft foot is hollow. Then tap it to M5, wind in a M5 socket head screw and that will give you enough self-tightening leverage to break it loose.
    I will try that first - I will need a longer allen wrench to get down in there first. Thanks!

  6. #4806
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    @Dougal, that did the trick! I was able to remove the lowers with a 6mm on an extension, all that is left is to tap it to M5. Thank you!

  7. #4807
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    SO... I tapped the footnut, but I apparently bought the wrong strength bolt and twisted the head right off of it as it was locking down. I then decided to get a tap with the same pitch as a caliper bolt and drilled out the other bolt. To be honest, I really thought I screwed it up big time when that head spun off. It all worked out in the end, the bolt finally took a hold of the footnut and it broke loose. I will be going back to get another tap to clean out the threads on the lowers, but it looks like a successful job complete! I am probably another week before I get parts from NZ, but happy it turned out well. A 100 bucks in parts and tools, 100 for the fork, I think I got me a really nice back up for the Salsa.

    Thanks again Dougal!!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mattoc-footnut.jpeg  


  8. #4808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankyanken View Post
    Does anyone know if you can put Mattoc Pro parts (MC2 damper, rebound, IRT) onto the Mattoc comp?
    I believe, if you can save the upper stanchions from the pro, you could save pretty much all the parts from pro, (the upper stanchion ID is not the same diameter, but you should be able to salvage the air piston from the damaged pro compression rod, damping side is not compatible between those at all though, if you don't manage to go through with this, I would be more than happy to check out the mangled IRT for cheap, I don't need IRT, it's not worth the cost for me as I don't feel anything lacking with IVA, but cheaply why not.

  9. #4809
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    Stupid me

    Nevermind what I said before, too hasty, new wheel has side to side play on the internal axle, needs shimming.
    Last edited by piciu256; 11-09-2019 at 03:19 AM. Reason: Nevermind

  10. #4810
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    Is the black end bit on the damper shaft something you can replace seperately or is it a whole rebound replacement (pro)? Don't ask!

    EDIT: Found it:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/shaft-foot-damper-pro-manitou.html
    Last edited by CS645; 11-09-2019 at 03:14 PM.

  11. #4811
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    I whant to replace bushings in the lowers my self. I need bushings for 1st gen mattoc expert. Are they all the same size over all the models?
    Is it obvious how deep i need to install them?
    It will be my first attempt so apriciate any help and tips.
    Thanks.

  12. #4812
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    @Dougal my mattoc comp is making sound when changing from compression to extension. The sound is a "clack" like some loose and happends, when riding the bike, with the compression knob in any position but more easy with compression applied. With the bike stopped I can only obtain the same "clack" with the compression knob almost closed pushing and releasing it quickly.

    What could it be? Low oil heigh in hidraulic circuit? Loose piston?

    Thanks

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  13. #4813
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    I whant to replace bushings in the lowers my self. I need bushings for 1st gen mattoc expert. Are they all the same size over all the models?
    Is it obvious how deep i need to install them?
    It will be my first attempt so apriciate any help and tips.
    Thanks.
    I found how to make a diy busching puller and installation tool.

    I just whant to know how deep the lower buschings need to be set, in case that the old buschings where not in place.
    Thanks

  14. #4814
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    Question: say the Mattoc would've had separate high and low speed rebound damping which would you prefer compared to the current ratio:

    - Low speed faster compared high speed
    - same as now
    - High speed faster


    Just curious if others will have the same preference as I have.

  15. #4815
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikesandWind View Post
    My Mattoc comp has developed a similar knock that is noticeable at stand still. What did it end up being. Lachman - did Wiggle cover it under warranty? Cheers
    High speed faster so that you can have a bit more usable adjustment range, now it appears that pretty much everyone runs it on the open side.

  16. #4816
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    Hi guys,

    Question about the high speed compression knob being stuck. I'm not sure if I haven't applied enough force to turn it and it was like that ever since I took it out of the box. Is there a way to determine if the knob has been turned max to + / - so I'll know where the opposite side is....

  17. #4817
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerKamote View Post
    Hi guys,

    Question about the high speed compression knob being stuck. I'm not sure if I haven't applied enough force to turn it and it was like that ever since I took it out of the box. Is there a way to determine if the knob has been turned max to + / - so I'll know where the opposite side is....
    Close the LSC and see how the fork takes square edge bumps (aka curbs). If the HSC is completely closed, the fork will (almost) spike. If it is completely opened, the shims will open on high speed impacts and the fork will largely absorb the hit.
    The alternative is to open the fork and visually check whether the HSC is closed or opened, but this requires removing the damper and changing all oils.

  18. #4818
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    thanks, will give it a try

  19. #4819
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramdm View Post
    @Dougal my mattoc comp is making sound when changing from compression to extension. The sound is a "clack" like some loose and happends, when riding the bike, with the compression knob in any position but more easy with compression applied. With the bike stopped I can only obtain the same "clack" with the compression knob almost closed pushing and releasing it quickly.

    What could it be? Low oil heigh in hidraulic circuit? Loose piston?

    Thanks

    Enviado desde mi Redmi 5 Plus mediante Tapatalk
    I found the cause of this today. It is the ABS+ compression damper check shim causing the knock on a slightly conical piston face. I think virtually all owners reporting bushing knock actually have this damper knock and the bushings are fine.

    To fix it. Remove the ABS+ damper, undo the bottom nut, take off the piston and polish the bottom surface flat using fine emery paper on a dead flat surface.

    Clean the piston and reinstall.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  20. #4820
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    Got a little disappointed, thought I was getting a Pro version of the Mattoc because the pic the guy posted said Dorado Air on the leg which according to the Manitou website was the Pro and the Comp has Expert Air spring instead. What gives?

  21. #4821
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendunn View Post
    Got a little disappointed, thought I was getting a Pro version of the Mattoc because the pic the guy posted said Dorado Air on the leg which according to the Manitou website was the Pro and the Comp has Expert Air spring instead. What gives?
    Expert Air is a cheaper to manufacture version of the Dorado air. Works the same. It's a recent addition to the range and only pops up on I think 2020 spec Comp's which have the change in threads.

    The 2019 Comp got the Dorado air. I think. I'm not sure when exactly they changed the Comp models from the top pumped ISO air to the Dorado Air. But somewhere after 2017 or so.

    Best way to know it's a Pro is by the damper knobs on top. If it's got HSC/LSC and HBO knobs then it's a Pro or Expert.
    Expert was only non boost with black lowers and gold stanchions.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  22. #4822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Expert Air is a cheaper to manufacture version of the Dorado air. Works the same. It's a recent addition to the range and only pops up on I think 2020 spec Comp's which have the change in threads.

    The 2019 Comp got the Dorado air. I think. I'm not sure when exactly they changed the Comp models from the top pumped ISO air to the Dorado Air. But somewhere after 2017 or so.

    Best way to know it's a Pro is by the damper knobs on top. If it's got HSC/LSC and HBO knobs then it's a Pro or Expert.
    Expert was only non boost with black lowers and gold stanchions.
    THanks, what happened was I bought a Krampus with a new 29+ fork still in box and saw the sticker and assumed it was Pro after checking their website. You would think that Manitou would update their website. Pretty disappointed when I saw it was Comp, but with 29+ I'm sure I'll be fine with the Comp

  23. #4823
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendunn View Post
    THanks, what happened was I bought a Krampus with a new 29+ fork still in box and saw the sticker and assumed it was Pro after checking their website. You would think that Manitou would update their website. Pretty disappointed when I saw it was Comp, but with 29+ I'm sure I'll be fine with the Comp
    The website has the Comp with the VTT damper. Which is the new multi-mode based on the ABS+: https://manitoumtb.com/product/mattoc-2/?cat_id=23

    Your fork box should have a sticker on the end with model spec and production date.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  24. #4824
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I found the cause of this today. It is the ABS+ compression damper check shim causing the knock on a slightly conical piston face. I think virtually all owners reporting bushing knock actually have this damper knock and the bushings are fine.

    To fix it. Remove the ABS+ damper, undo the bottom nut, take off the piston and polish the bottom surface flat using fine emery paper on a dead flat surface.

    Clean the piston and reinstall.
    Thanks @Dougal

    If I'm understanding you, I must sand the down face of the piston.

    I have signaled it on the image below. Is that correct?



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  25. #4825
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramdm View Post
    Thanks @Dougal

    If I'm understanding you, I must sand the down face of the piston.

    I have signaled it on the image below. Is that correct?



    Enviado desde mi Redmi 5 Plus mediante Tapatalk
    Yes.

    I expect Hayes-Manitou will come out with parts to fix it, but polishing the piston flat is the permanent fix and can be done quickly.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  26. #4826
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    Mattocs on sale for us customers at the Hayes store.

    https://shop.hayesperformance.com/co...erer-15mm-axle

  27. #4827
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    New mattoc comp doesnít feel right.

    My questions are:

    What does the red ABS+ knob on the damper side do?
    ABS+ knob more than 3 clicks makes knocking noise while riding.
    90psi seems to make the fork top out quite hard.
    Dorado air, does it have 2 chambers?

    Thanks

  28. #4828
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalsaHT View Post
    New mattoc comp doesnít feel right.

    My questions are:

    What does the red ABS+ knob on the damper side do?
    ABS+ knob more than 3 clicks makes knocking noise while riding.
    90psi seems to make the fork top out quite hard.
    Dorado air, does it have 2 chambers?

    Thanks
    ABS+ knob is your low speed compression damping adjuster.
    Knocking is the check shim tapping against the concave side of the ABS+ piston. See a few posts above for how to fix it (polish it flat).
    If you have top-out then your pump isn't connecting the positive and negative chambers. Be sure to screw the pump on completely as the valve rod connects the chambers.

    Yes Dorado air has positive and negative chambers. It can have three chambers with IRT installed.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  29. #4829
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    Thanks!!

    I have the M-IVR on the air side.

    The fork I have came on a RSD sergeant V3

    Iíll try a different pump to see it that helps.

  30. #4830
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    I'm servicing my Mattoc Comp which is leaking bath oil on both sides into the air chamber and damper. I'm wondering if the seal head on the air side unscrews? (Red circle) There must be an o-ring in there somewhere but I'm not wanting to put any more force to unscrew it in case it doesn't. Is this where the 10x3mm o-ring goes that was mentioned earlier in the thread?

    Anyone know what size the damper seal is? (Green circle) Seems the shaft is 12.7mm.

    Manitou Mattoc-img_20191212_075516998%7E2.jpg

  31. #4831
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    Quote Originally Posted by aiv23 View Post
    I'm servicing my Mattoc Comp which is leaking bath oil on both sides into the air chamber and damper. I'm wondering if the seal head on the air side unscrews? (Red circle) There must be an o-ring in there somewhere but I'm not wanting to put any more force to unscrew it in case it doesn't. Is this where the 10x3mm o-ring goes that was mentioned earlier in the thread?

    Anyone know what size the damper seal is? (Green circle) Seems the shaft is 12.7mm.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    With shaft clamps, you can remove the foot bolts and slide the seal heads off to get to the internal seals. Remove the silver ring and the detent balls and springs from the foot nut prior to removing them.

    10x3 works on the air side, but its a tight fit. I don't recall the damper side size off the top of my head.

  32. #4832
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    Thanks Mullen, my shaft clamp is in the mail. I guess I'll have to wait on ordering the seals until then. I have the manitou mattoc seal kit but nothing in there looks like it's 12.7mm internal diameter.

  33. #4833
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    Quote Originally Posted by aiv23 View Post
    I'm servicing my Mattoc Comp which is leaking bath oil on both sides into the air chamber and damper. I'm wondering if the seal head on the air side unscrews? (Red circle) There must be an o-ring in there somewhere but I'm not wanting to put any more force to unscrew it in case it doesn't. Is this where the 10x3mm o-ring goes that was mentioned earlier in the thread?

    Anyone know what size the damper seal is? (Green circle) Seems the shaft is 12.7mm.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Air side will be a -110 quad-ring. Replacing that with a 10x3mm oring (you need to remove the backup ring to fit) gives a tighter seal.

    Damper side is a lip seal built into the cap. I haven't tried to replace one before. They generally last a very long time, just treat the oil migration as a maintenance timer.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  34. #4834
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    Thanks Dougal. I will leave the damper side in that case. For the air side, do I need to unscrew the red bit circled to change the o-ring? Can't see any seal in the current state and I'm not sure what you mean by backup ring.

  35. #4835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Air side will be a -110 quad-ring. Replacing that with a 10x3mm oring (you need to remove the backup ring to fit) gives a tighter seal.

    Damper side is a lip seal built into the cap. I haven't tried to replace one before. They generally last a very long time, just treat the oil migration as a maintenance timer.
    I can confirm that 10x3 oring fits both sides. Air side was tight, damper side was a perfect fit on Mattoc Pro

    Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk

  36. #4836
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    Quote Originally Posted by aiv23 View Post
    Thanks Dougal. I will leave the damper side in that case. For the air side, do I need to unscrew the red bit circled to change the o-ring? Can't see any seal in the current state and I'm not sure what you mean by backup ring.
    I take the air piston off to change the end-cap seal. You've just got to be careful sliding the cap back on over the square edge of the shaft.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    I can confirm that 10x3 oring fits both sides. Air side was tight, damper side was a perfect fit on Mattoc Pro

    Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk
    Yes Pro is 10mm shafts both sides. Expert and Comp used a 1/2" (12.7mm) damper shaft with a different seal.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  37. #4837
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    [QUOTE=Dougal;14468281]I take the air piston off to change the end-cap seal. You've just got to be careful sliding the cap back on over the square edge of the shaft.


    Thanks Dougal, I think I figured it all out. There was a 10x3 o-ring in the Mattoc seal kit so I used that on the air shaft. Looking forward to riding again tomorrow and seeing how it holds up.

  38. #4838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The website has the Comp with the VTT damper. Which is the new multi-mode based on the ABS+: https://manitoumtb.com/product/mattoc-2/?cat_id=23

    Your fork box should have a sticker on the end with model spec and production date.
    Hello,
    Does anyone have more info on the VTT damper in the newer comps? I just bought my wife a new Mastodon comp 120mm and it did not come with the ABS+ / Red cap that I was expecting. The cap is thinner and Black with 3 positions rather than several which sounds like the VTT Dougal describes. Any thoughts on this damper vs the ABS+ and can the older top-cap be used for finer adjustments? I don't see any info on the Manitou Website. I asked a similar question in the Mastodon thread however there's not as much traffic as here.
    Thank you!

  39. #4839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresab View Post
    Hello,
    Does anyone have more info on the VTT damper in the newer comps? I just bought my wife a new Mastodon comp 120mm and it did not come with the ABS+ / Red cap that I was expecting. The cap is thinner and Black with 3 positions rather than several which sounds like the VTT Dougal describes. Any thoughts on this damper vs the ABS+ and can the older top-cap be used for finer adjustments? I don't see any info on the Manitou Website. I asked a similar question in the Mastodon thread however there's not as much traffic as here.
    Thank you!
    I spent a few months on it when it was in development. Its pretty good, just not as adjustable as the ABS+

    It has 3 flow paths for oil and works like this:

    Full open mode has a oil LSC circuit and HSC shim stack that flow oil. Its very supple in this mode.

    In the middle setting, a plunger is pushed down and blocks flow through the low speed circuit and runs only through the HSC shim stack. The main shim stack is linear (not preloaded) so it can flow oil pretty quickly with no real platform. This is supportive without being too harsh. You do lose some small bump sensitivity though. I used this setting most of the time.

    The lock out setting drops the plunger further and blocks flow to the main HSC shim stack. It redirects it to a secondary shim circuit that is highly preloaded that gives a very firm lock out. I personally never needed the lock out, but some people love having it.

    Overall, its a solid damper. I like the abs+ better because its more adjustable and I don't care about the lock out. I did make a modification to one of my vvt dampers I was testing that made it a little better. It involves using a file to flatten a small part of the plunger to allow a little bit of oil to flow through the low speed circuit in the "trail" setting. This allowed for increased support with better small bump sensitivity. As more VTT dampers make their way to the public, I may post how to do it on here. That assumes enough people complain about the stock damper to justify it.

  40. #4840
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I spent a few months on it when it was in development. Its pretty good, just not as adjustable as the ABS+

    It has 3 flow paths for oil and works like this:

    Full open mode has a oil LSC circuit and HSC shim stack that flow oil. Its very supple in this mode.

    In the middle setting, a plunger is pushed down and blocks flow through the low speed circuit and runs only through the HSC shim stack. The main shim stack is linear (not preloaded) so it can flow oil pretty quickly with no real platform. This is supportive without being too harsh. You do lose some small bump sensitivity though. I used this setting most of the time.

    The lock out setting drops the plunger further and blocks flow to the main HSC shim stack. It redirects it to a secondary shim circuit that is highly preloaded that gives a very firm lock out. I personally never needed the lock out, but some people love having it.

    Overall, its a solid damper. I like the abs+ better because its more adjustable and I don't care about the lock out. I did make a modification to one of my vvt dampers I was testing that made it a little better. It involves using a file to flatten a small part of the plunger to allow a little bit of oil to flow through the low speed circuit in the "trail" setting. This allowed for increased support with better small bump sensitivity. As more VTT dampers make their way to the public, I may post how to do it on here. That assumes enough people complain about the stock damper to justify it.
    Great info, thank you. Iíve added it to my post in the Mastodon thread.
    Another question, I believe my Mastodon Pro does not have HBO like my Mattoc, neither did the ABS+ based comp (in the Mastodon but not sure of the Mattoc). Does the VTT based damper in either the Mattoc or the Mastodon retain the HBO?

  41. #4841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresab View Post
    Great info, thank you. Iíve added it to my post in the Mastodon thread.
    Another question, I believe my Mastodon Pro does not have HBO like my Mattoc, neither did the ABS+ based comp (in the Mastodon but not sure of the Mattoc). Does the VTT based damper in either the Mattoc or the Mastodon retain the HBO?
    Good question. Mastodons do not have HBO, test riders found it to be a unnecessary feature withe the riding fat bikes see. The Mattocs with abs+ do have HBO, but I'm not sure about the VTT Mattocs. I will look into it and report back on what went to production. (My versions did not, but I know versions with HBO existed during the testing phase)

  42. #4842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresab View Post
    Great info, thank you. Iíve added it to my post in the Mastodon thread.
    Another question, I believe my Mastodon Pro does not have HBO like my Mattoc, neither did the ABS+ based comp (in the Mastodon but not sure of the Mattoc). Does the VTT based damper in either the Mattoc or the Mastodon retain the HBO?
    MY18 has VTT with HBO

    MY19 does not have HBO

  43. #4843
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    I just got a Mattoc Pro a few weeks ago, but noticed the date of manufacture is 2017/5/11. So, itís over 2 years out. Have I missed any updates on it? Anything to know?

  44. #4844
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    Quote Originally Posted by celstark View Post
    I just got a Mattoc Pro a few weeks ago, but noticed the date of manufacture is 2017/5/11. So, itís over 2 years out. Have I missed any updates on it? Anything to know?
    Have a look here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/forks/f...manitou-mattoc

    Externally IRT is the big giveaway for the Mattoc 3. All updates are backwards compatible.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  45. #4845
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    2016 mattoc expert bottoming out

    I'm wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what might be causing my forks to bottom out before I strip them down. I recently gave them a full service as they gave up the ghost on an uplift day. I lost most of my travel and wouldn't even rebound with the wheel off the ground. They were feeling great after the service but now after 7 or 8 rides this has happened.

    Any help or advice is much appreciated.

    Regards

    Martyn

  46. #4846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derg33 View Post
    I'm wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what might be causing my forks to bottom out before I strip them down. I recently gave them a full service as they gave up the ghost on an uplift day. I lost most of my travel and wouldn't even rebound with the wheel off the ground. They were feeling great after the service but now after 7 or 8 rides this has happened.

    Any help or advice is much appreciated.

    Regards

    Martyn
    well, first I would check the air pressure in the main chamber as well as the IRT if equipped. air pressure causes rebound - the rebound valve in the damper simply resists it.

  47. #4847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derg33 View Post
    I'm wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what might be causing my forks to bottom out before I strip them down. I recently gave them a full service as they gave up the ghost on an uplift day. I lost most of my travel and wouldn't even rebound with the wheel off the ground. They were feeling great after the service but now after 7 or 8 rides this has happened.

    Any help or advice is much appreciated.

    Regards

    Martyn
    Hard bottom-out or just not getting full travel?

    Not getting full travel is usually oil level too high in the damper. The fork hanging down in travel suggests worn/torn air spring seals which can happen on reassembly. There have been a couple of cases of hydraulic lock from too much oil damaging the damper on a hard compression.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  48. #4848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Have a look here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/forks/f...manitou-mattoc

    Externally IRT is the big giveaway for the Mattoc 3. All updates are backwards compatible.
    Thanks - I've got the IRT and the mudguard. I'm still about 10 pages away from going through this whole thread to get fully up to speed on all things Mattoc. Thanks for all you've done for us Dougal!

    FWIW, the only thing I noticed having pulled it apart a few times and ridden it a half dozen was that the lowers didn't drain more than a few drops. Cleaned, wiped, and filled with their semi-bath (had I gotten through more, I'd have just used my Fox gold) with 7mL per leg and foam rings soaked / wipers hit with Slickoleum.

  49. #4849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Hard bottom-out or just not getting full travel?

    Not getting full travel is usually oil level too high in the damper. The fork hanging down in travel suggests worn/torn air spring seals which can happen on reassembly. There have been a couple of cases of hydraulic lock from too much oil damaging the damper on a hard compression.
    Hard bottom out is how I'd describe it and I've never had these forks bottom out before. I did measure the oil level the same way I always have with a tool I made. Pretty sure I was careful enough on reassembly not to damage the seals but the forks sitting low in their travel was before I serviced them that doesn't seem to be a problem now just the bottoming out.

    Are the upgraded dampers still available for my forks? Maybe I might just try another damper service and if that doesn't work get the pro damper.

    Regards

    Martyn

  50. #4850
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    Maybe you measured the oil level and fitted the compression assy with the rebound rod slightly inserted - which would explain both the hard bottom-out (due to low oil level) and the forks sitting low in the travel (the rod would pull a vacuum when fully extended).

  51. #4851
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    Hello, first time posting here. I was just wondering if anyone could help be determine the fork offset for a 2019 Mattoc Pro 27.5 'Boost' fork? Here is a URL to the fork in question: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...xoC3RsQAvD_BwE

    I emailed Manitou and a tech informed me that the 'Boost' 27.5 model has a 48mm offset, but this seems to conflict with the information given on their own website which (as far as I can tell) lists both the 27.5 BOOST and NON-BOOST model as both having a 44mm offset. The 48mm offset appears to be solely allocated to the 27.5 PLUS version of the fork.
    Would really appreciate it if someone could confirm my surmising. Thanks.

  52. #4852
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    Quote Originally Posted by will1994 View Post
    Hello, first time posting here. I was just wondering if anyone could help be determine the fork offset for a 2019 Mattoc Pro 27.5 'Boost' fork? Here is a URL to the fork in question: https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...xoC3RsQAvD_BwE

    I emailed Manitou and a tech informed me that the 'Boost' 27.5 model has a 48mm offset, but this seems to conflict with the information given on their own website which (as far as I can tell) lists both the 27.5 BOOST and NON-BOOST model as both having a 44mm offset. The 48mm offset appears to be solely allocated to the 27.5 PLUS version of the fork.
    Would really appreciate it if someone could confirm my surmising. Thanks.
    You are correct, 44mm for a 27.5.

  53. #4853
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    Many thanks Mullen.

  54. #4854
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    Bikewagon has a 160mm 27.5 mattoc pro listed for $399. i'm considering getting and running a 26" wheel. it is listed as a '19. does the 27" forks come with the hbo bit and removable spacer to convert to 170mm 26"?
    I'm upgrading from a fox 32 100-140 talas RLC that I could never get set up to my liking. all the "adjustments" seemed to be bandaids to make it a not as crappy air fork. this is after a long break from mountain biking. before that I ran a 130mm z1 bomber that felt great once was set up with slightly thicker oil and a little higher oil level . servicing was dead simple drain and fill, never messed with it otherwise.
    I'm of the camp that suspension is for the first and last portion of travel movement and the majority of travel is arms and legs. I like my suspension to be the same all the time, not making adjustments to it for different trails or temperature.

    from reading through the entire thread I'm concerned the mattoc is going to require a lot of fiddling with throughout the season to keep it running well and that, maybe this is the new normal for mountain bike suspension?

  55. #4855
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    I don't know where you're from, but I have a spare conversion kit here in Poland, I'm running a 27.5 wheel so it's not needed. As for setup, it's not hard really, you have more options than some give you, but really, it's only 5 clicks of high and low speed compression each, it works well enough without the dials and you'll know what you want to achieve once you start fiddling with them (as in better big hit stability- add high speed, better support, add low speed etc.), HBO just set at 2 clicks from fully closed and you'll be golden

  56. #4856
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    I went to Saalbach Hinterglemm and Leogang last year and only adjusted the LSC on very long (boring) fireroad climbs. All technical climbing, flow trail, root trails and downhill tracks were done on the same settings. Once you find the sweet spot for your type of riding, you don't need to adjust very often. I had a Fox 32 Talas RLC 150 before and had to adjust air pressure, compression and rebound all the time. Even though the Mattoc Pro has way more adjustments, I only have to use LSC on the go. Air pressure, HSC, rebound and HBO are set once and only reset after a service, which I do once a year. The service is easier and quicker than with my Fox 34 Performance GRIP 160.

    If you want the absolute 100% best performance for a specific trail, it is best to adjust everything. However, because of the performance of the air spring with IRT (get it if it doesn't come with the fork!), you can adjust your fork for your style of riding and trails (with some reserve for the heavier stuff) and get very good performance on other trails. Adjusting for larger drops and jumps doesn't mean you get bucked of your bike on lower speed root trails (like on most Fox forks).

  57. #4857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    I went to Saalbach Hinterglemm and Leogang last year and only adjusted the LSC on very long (boring) fireroad climbs. All technical climbing, flow trail, root trails and downhill tracks were done on the same settings. Once you find the sweet spot for your type of riding, you don't need to adjust very often. I had a Fox 32 Talas RLC 150 before and had to adjust air pressure, compression and rebound all the time. Even though the Mattoc Pro has way more adjustments, I only have to use LSC on the go. Air pressure, HSC, rebound and HBO are set once and only reset after a service, which I do once a year. The service is easier and quicker than with my Fox 34 Performance GRIP 160.

    If you want the absolute 100% best performance for a specific trail, it is best to adjust everything. However, because of the performance of the air spring with IRT (get it if it doesn't come with the fork!), you can adjust your fork for your style of riding and trails (with some reserve for the heavier stuff) and get very good performance on other trails. Adjusting for larger drops and jumps doesn't mean you get bucked of your bike on lower speed root trails (like on most Fox forks).
    Exactly this. To reinforce how a correct setup behaves.

    How often do you feel the need to change your car suspension rebound or spring-rate?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  58. #4858
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    Hi there experts ... a few questions regarding lowers:
    Do the Mattoc Pro (27.5+/29 boost) and Magnum share the same lowers? If not, what are the differences?
    Also, any differences between 2017 and 2018/19 lowers?
    When did they begin coming with the threaded holes for the integrated mud guard?

  59. #4859
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    Quote Originally Posted by kartracer View Post
    Hi there experts ... a few questions regarding lowers:
    Do the Mattoc Pro (27.5+/29 boost) and Magnum share the same lowers? If not, what are the differences?
    Also, any differences between 2017 and 2018/19 lowers?
    When did they begin coming with the threaded holes for the integrated mud guard?
    Yes 27+/29 is the same casting for Magnum and Mattoc. Neither of those got the mud-guard mounts.
    The mud-guard mounts are only on the boost but not plus forks. So Mattoc Boost, Machete J-unit and Mezzer.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  60. #4860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    However, because of the performance of the air spring with IRT (get it if it doesn't come with the fork!), you can adjust your fork for your style of riding and trails (with some reserve for the heavier stuff) and get very good performance on other trails. Adjusting for larger drops and jumps doesn't mean you get bucked of your bike on lower speed root trails (like on most Fox forks).
    This is good to here about the mattoc
    My experience with the fox is exactly this-small bump and root compliance meant it collapsed through mid stroke and bottomed hard after drop offs and good larger hit compliance meant stiff over roots. I just couldn't understand how a 10 year newer high end fork from a reputable suspension company that weighed the same as my heavy '99 fork could perform so poorly compared to it .
    but then again I never understood how lots of sag and 100% travel usage every ride and "pedal platform" became mandatory suspension setup standards.

  61. #4861
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    Update on previous post: Just bought a new Mattoc Pro Boost from CRC for £360. I'm astounded that at this price, for the 2019 'Boost' version with IRT as well as the updates to the crown and brace design, they don't appear to have managed to sell many at all. Stock levels don't appear to have altered since I first saw the offer in early December. Anyway it will be replacing a Mattoc Expert (140mm) I've had installed on my Stanton Switchback hardtail for the last 6 years.

    The expert has been an exceptional fork in its own right and has had (notwithstanding a brief initial difficulty with the poppet valve protrusion) zero reliability issues with only semi-regular servicing (maybe once every 10-12 months. It will continue to be used on my Dads Ragley Blue Pig. The one reservation I do have in my praise for the original Mattoc is that - without either an IVA or IRT installed - I've had to run a fairly high pressure (67 PSI) for my weight (around 76kg) to maintain the mid-stroke support so important when riding a hardtail in particular. This appears to have somewhat compromised the forks small bump sensitivity and I am hopeful that this one sub-optimal performance aspect will be improved by the IRT on the new fork.

    Before I sign off I just have to say that this thread has been tremendously useful over the years and has been instrumental in informing my decision to stay with Manitou (regardless of the obvious price saving) rather than return to one of the 'big 2' or a more exotic offering from DVO, Ohlins, Cane Creek etc. Dougal and Mullen in particular have been exceptionally punctilious in their contributions, so thank you very much indeed.

  62. #4862
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    If you liked a Mattoc without IRT, you're going to love one with IRT. After the right setup, it's like having your cake and eating it too. Without IRT, my Mattoc had better small bump compliance and equal large hit reserves as my Fox 34 GRIP Performance. With IRT, it has far better small bump compliance, more midstroke support and even slightly better large hit handling than the Fox that was tuned specifically for the latter and compromised on small bump.
    Square edge and repeated hit performance has always been miles better on the Mattoc.

  63. #4863
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    Mattocs' arrived today and amazingly enough CRC's advert appears to have been accurate; they are actually a 2019 (DoM Sept 2019) Mattoc Pro Boost with IRT and the updated brace design. Haven't fitted them as yet but very much looking forward to playing about with the IRT chamber to see if a better balance of small bump sensitivity vs mid stroke support can be achieved vis a vis my old Mattoc Expert without IRT or IVA.

  64. #4864
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    Rebound knob stuck

    Apologies for the double post but if anyone with any experience with Manitou's MC2 damper is reading this I need a bit of help. Just finished adjusting the travel on my new Pro Boost and upon reassembly noticed that the rebound knob is now completely jammed. Prior to my (obviously hamfisted) dissasembly of the fork the rebound was functioning perfectly well, so it isn't a manufacturing error. Any suggestions as to what I've done and how to remedy it? Thank you to anyone who responds.

  65. #4865
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    How does the Mattoc Pro 3 compare to a Fox 34 Grip or Fit4?

    Weight wise the Mattoc is quite a bit heavier, is it worth the weight? Iím 200#, ride hard, fork is going on a Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol, probably 130, maybe 140.

    I have a Mezzer, are they similar in damping, ie same design?
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  66. #4866
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    Quote Originally Posted by will1994 View Post
    Apologies for the double post but if anyone with any experience with Manitou's MC2 damper is reading this I need a bit of help. Just finished adjusting the travel on my new Pro Boost and upon reassembly noticed that the rebound knob is now completely jammed. Prior to my (obviously hamfisted) dissasembly of the fork the rebound was functioning perfectly well, so it isn't a manufacturing error. Any suggestions as to what I've done and how to remedy it? Thank you to anyone who responds.
    You probably jammed it when unscrewing the knob to remove the lowers or installing the screw when putting everything back together. I did that once and make sure to hold the knob when removing the screws now.
    Is the rebound full slow or fast? Put a rag around the knob and use pliers to turn it the other way. If it isn't full fast or slow, something else is wrong.

  67. #4867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How does the Mattoc Pro 3 compare to a Fox 34 Grip or Fit4?

    Weight wise the Mattoc is quite a bit heavier, is it worth the weight? Iím 200#, ride hard, fork is going on a Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol, probably 130, maybe 140.

    I have a Mezzer, are they similar in damping, ie same design?
    My bike came stock with a Fox 34 Performance GRIP 160 and is updated with a Mattoc Pro (first model) with IRT. I don't notice the increase in weight, but like I mentioned earlier, the Mattoc can be adjusted to at the same time be both more compliant on small bumps, have better bottom out resistance and is always better with square edge and repeated hits. For me, it's definitely worth it. I haven't ridden a Mezzer yes, so can't comment on the differences or similarities.

  68. #4868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How does the Mattoc Pro 3 compare to a Fox 34 Grip or Fit4?

    Weight wise the Mattoc is quite a bit heavier, is it worth the weight? Iím 200#, ride hard, fork is going on a Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol, probably 130, maybe 140.

    I have a Mezzer, are they similar in damping, ie same design?
    Mattoc and Mezzer dampers are somewhat similar. Both use the same concepts. The two biggest differences are:

    the mezzer damper is a sealed cartridge, and the mattoc uses cartridge rebound (to save weight by lowering oil volume) with in leg compression damper. There is a foam compensator in the mattoc that keeps the volume of air that sits above the damper as small as possible.

    The other big difference is how the HSC adjuster functions. In the mattoc, adding HSC adds physical preload to the HSC shim stack. In the Mezzer, the HSC adjuster adds pressure to a spring that pushes on the OD of the HSC shim stack, which works better for longer travel applications.

    I haven't looked at the weights of the recent 34 (non stepcast) forks. The 27.5+/29 version being 200+ grams heavier than the 27.5 version always surprised me, and make me question how accurate the weights are. All my bikes are 27.5 so I never had a chance to measure. Either way, IRT alone is worth the weight penalty in my opinion, but I'm biased. I struggle hard to when I have to single positive air chamber forks now.

  69. #4869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How does the Mattoc Pro 3 compare to a Fox 34 Grip or Fit4?

    Weight wise the Mattoc is quite a bit heavier, is it worth the weight? Iím 200#, ride hard, fork is going on a Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol, probably 130, maybe 140.

    I have a Mezzer, are they similar in damping, ie same design?
    The Mattoc is stiffer, better damped, better sprung and won't start creaking on you.

    I haven't ridden the Grip F34 on proper trails, but the FIT4 I do not like at all.

    The Mattoc damper has a very different feel to the Mezzer. The Mattoc has a big LSC circuit so big difference between open and closed throughout the speed range. The Mezzer has a tight LSC circuit so it chokes off and forces more oil through HSC at higher speeds even if the LSC adjuster is more open.

    Air spring wise the Mattoc is less progressive, so you'll find yourself running higher air pressures vs Mezzer. It has a smaller negative chamber so feels a bit firmer off the top.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  70. #4870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    How does the Mattoc Pro 3 compare to a Fox 34 Grip or Fit4?

    Weight wise the Mattoc is quite a bit heavier, is it worth the weight? Iím 200#, ride hard, fork is going on a Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol, probably 130, maybe 140.

    I have a Mezzer, are they similar in damping, ie same design?
    I just upgraded from a Fox 34 GRIP to the Mattoc Pro w/IRT. When I looked at the weights, the Fox 34 Performance was 1796g and the Mattoc Pro was 1809g -- hardly a difference. The non-Pro adds ~190g more.

    As for worth it or not? 100% worth it. I could never get the 34 GRIP to handle the rough chatter well and be supple. I've had a dozen or so rides on the Mattoc and it's so much better in these respects. I'm less fatigued, more confident, in more control, and faster. The local trails are in rougher shape at the moment (our rains do that) and I'm still setting PRs on downhills I've done many times on the Fox 34.

  71. #4871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    You probably jammed it when unscrewing the knob to remove the lowers or installing the screw when putting everything back together. I did that once and make sure to hold the knob when removing the screws now.
    Is the rebound full slow or fast? Put a rag around the knob and use pliers to turn it the other way. If it isn't full fast or slow, something else is wrong.
    You were right, I plucked up the courage to use a bit more force and it's once again turning freely. Thanks

  72. #4872
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    Quote Originally Posted by celstark View Post
    I just upgraded from a Fox 34 GRIP to the Mattoc Pro w/IRT. When I looked at the weights, the Fox 34 Performance was 1796g and the Mattoc Pro was 1809g -- hardly a difference. The non-Pro adds ~190g more.
    .
    Forgot that I weighed my actual units when I did the swap. The Fox 34 Performance GRIP 27.5" Boost in 150 mm was 1860 g. The Mattoc Pro in 27.5" Boost was 1820 g. Now, it was a bit light on the oil in the lowers, so I won't swear it's actually 40 g lighter than the Fox, but it's clearly not far heavier.

    Craig

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    Thanks guys, I think Iíll get one, price is much better than Fox, resale might not be as good but maybe I wonít sell it 🙄
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  74. #4874
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    Hey guys - following the mezzer thread as well and I see that storing the bikes vertically along the wall ( so the fork is parallel with the ground) may not be a good idea for oil migration? Is this a potential problem for the mattoc as well? Reason I ask is I have started to store my bike rack affixed to my garage and the bikes sitting like that. 3 of em have mattocs and I don't want to create issues for myself......

    Thanks

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    I have been storing my bike on the wall with the front wheel up and haven't noticed any ill effects.

  76. #4876
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Hey guys - following the mezzer thread as well and I see that storing the bikes vertically along the wall ( so the fork is parallel with the ground) may not be a good idea for oil migration? Is this a potential problem for the mattoc as well? Reason I ask is I have started to store my bike rack affixed to my garage and the bikes sitting like that. 3 of em have mattocs and I don't want to create issues for myself......

    Thanks
    No problem at all.
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  77. #4877
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    If anything, it would be beneficial- keeps the seals lubed

  78. #4878
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Hey guys - following the mezzer thread as well and I see that storing the bikes vertically along the wall ( so the fork is parallel with the ground) may not be a good idea for oil migration? Is this a potential problem for the mattoc as well?
    As noted, definitely not a problem, and the Mattoc damper is constructed differently than the Mezzer. It would be impossible for the oil migration problem some people are reporting with the Mezzer to happen to a Mattoc. The Mezzer has a separate damper cartridge assembly that can be removed intact while the Mattoc integrates the damper into the stanchion.

  79. #4879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    The initial ride on the mellow local trails indicates that it's a pretty nice fork (Comp). I have no doubt that it's significantly better than the RockShox forks in this price range.

    Well, after several months of riding trails, I have a much better idea of the performance. This doesn't feel like a "budget" fork at all. It tracks great and is really smooth on hard impacts. Small roots and rocks just disappear. If this is how well the Comp works, then I'd bet the Pro to be really something. I doubt that any other fork could compete at the same price point.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  80. #4880
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    So, I finally was bothered enough to take apart the poppet valve, now everything makes sense- the inconsistent air leaking to the negative chamber, there was a piece of fibre stuck in the valve -_-
    Btw. to take it apart I didn't use any clamp blocks etc. just degreased the shaft properly and wrapped a tube around it, was able to hold it strong enough just with my left hand.
    PS. it doesn't stop amazing me how well it is sealed from the outside, it's been officially a year since I made a full service (been in there 3 times though, not changing or adding oil) and the lower leg oil is still there and perfectly clean, the grease I applied on the dust seals is clean too for that matter! Granted, Ive ridden only around 600 real km (100 in the mountains) on this bike, but still, I've seen RS and Fox suspension, even before the switch to low friction seals, dirty and dry inside after a similar amount of time.
    Last edited by piciu256; 02-06-2020 at 10:08 AM. Reason: typo

  81. #4881
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    Is a new Mattoc Pro on the horizon? I know they are slightly revising the Mcleod with some new internal parts from the Mara.

    Just hoping for a lighter 29" 120-140mm fork.

    Also, is the ABS tuning guide in mullen's signature, the one for this fork?

  82. #4882
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post

    Also, is the ABS tuning guide in mullen's signature, the one for this fork?
    I believe it's based on the Minute, but the same principles apply.

  83. #4883
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    Quote Originally Posted by celstark View Post
    I just upgraded from a Fox 34 GRIP to the Mattoc Pro w/IRT. When I looked at the weights, the Fox 34 Performance was 1796g and the Mattoc Pro was 1809g -- hardly a difference. The non-Pro adds ~190g more.

    As for worth it or not? 100% worth it. I could never get the 34 GRIP to handle the rough chatter well and be supple. I've had a dozen or so rides on the Mattoc and it's so much better in these respects. I'm less fatigued, more confident, in more control, and faster. The local trails are in rougher shape at the moment (our rains do that) and I'm still setting PRs on downhills I've done many times on the Fox 34.
    Is this 27.5 or 29? If 29 that's pretty light.

  84. #4884
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Is a new Mattoc Pro on the horizon? I know they are slightly revising the Mcleod with some new internal parts from the Mara.

    Just hoping for a lighter 29" 120-140mm fork.

    Also, is the ABS tuning guide in mullen's signature, the one for this fork?
    The ABS+ pistons and tuning guide are applicable for any ABS+ fork. From the R7 through to the Mattoc and Mastodon Comp forks. They all use 1/2" damper shafts and the same piston geometry.
    How's that for consistency? Keeping the same functionality and tuning system for a whole decade over multiple fork models!

    I'm not allowed to answer your other questions.......
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  85. #4885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The ABS+ pistons and tuning guide are applicable for any ABS+ fork. From the R7 through to the Mattoc and Mastodon Comp forks. They all use 1/2" damper shafts and the same piston geometry.
    How's that for consistency? Keeping the same functionality and tuning system for a whole decade over multiple fork models!

    I'm not allowed to answer your other questions.......
    Which answers my question Oh man I hope it's not a long wait. Might just deal with the stock fox 34 for now...

  86. #4886
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Is a new Mattoc Pro on the horizon? I know they are slightly revising the Mcleod with some new internal parts from the Mara.

    Just hoping for a lighter 29" 120-140mm fork.

    Also, is the ABS tuning guide in mullen's signature, the one for this fork?
    Oh please advise on. The revised McLeod - I am going to be opening mine soon to add the king can and if there is other stuff I should add I will wait as I am still skiing for a few more months....

  87. #4887
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Oh please advise on. The revised McLeod - I am going to be opening mine soon to add the king can and if there is other stuff I should add I will wait as I am still skiing for a few more months....
    In the Mcleod threat it was mentioned they will be implementing something from the Mara. I don't know the name of the actual thing, flexible IFP or poppet or something.

  88. #4888
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    27.5Ē jdang307

  89. #4889
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    2016 Mattocs - Cracked Post Mounts

    Hi Guys,

    Has anyone else noticed cracks appearing on their mattoc's post mounts?
    I don't know whether I have had a crash or I have been over tightening them and they have fatigued over time.

    I have emailed Manitou about it but I am waiting for a response from the EU team. I don't expect Manitou to do much as there well out of warranty, I'm hoping they will have old-non boost lowers in stock which I can purchase off them.

    Top Post has Bolt in it, Bottom has no bolt.
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/xaJ2743sp9euE5g19

    Cheers
    Alec

  90. #4890
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    Wow this is a long thread. I have always thought that there was only RS and Fox in the world of forks so new to the Manitou offering. I am liking the comments and reviews for the Mattoc Pro but confused as to the versions ie Pro, Pro 2 and Pro 3. Is something like this a Pro, how to tell the difference? https://www.wiggle.co.uk/manitou-mat...forks-boost-1/

    Matt

  91. #4891
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterdun View Post
    Wow this is a long thread. I have always thought that there was only RS and Fox in the world of forks so new to the Manitou offering. I am liking the comments and reviews for the Mattoc Pro but confused as to the versions ie Pro, Pro 2 and Pro 3. Is something like this a Pro, how to tell the difference? https://www.wiggle.co.uk/manitou-mat...forks-boost-1/

    Matt

    The number labels have to do with the version. When listed online, they likely won't have numbers listed. Basically, it goes like this: (rough estimates on time frames)

    Pro- original Mattoc from 2014-15

    Pro 2- 2015-17 Adds IVA (system that allows you to add spring progression, kinda like tokens) and low friction seals. IRT a available aftermarket

    Pro 3 -2018 to present. Boost spacing, IRT stock, hexlock axle stock. 27.5 boost version gets a larger arch that adds stiffness. Integrated fender.

    There are other changes made over the years as well, but those are the main things. The picture in your link shows a pro 3.

  92. #4892
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    Awesome, thanks for the info.

  93. #4893
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    Never had such issue, you've either overtightened the mount (chich I doubt would cause this type of issue) or you left one of the bolts too loose, allowing side loading of the bolt, when everything is properly installed, it's the flat surface that holds everything in its place, not the bolt.
    @shlec

  94. #4894
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    Quote Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    Never had such issue, you've either overtightened the mount (chich I doubt would cause this type of issue) or you left one of the bolts too loose, allowing side loading of the bolt, when everything is properly installed, it's the flat surface that holds everything in its place, not the bolt.
    @shlec
    Yeah I think i agree, over-tightening i would expect the threads to strip not crack the lowers. I can't think of a time that i have ridden with a completely loose caliper. however you might be right on the one bolt but that doesn't explain why its on both post mounts, unless my mechanic skills are really that poo that i have messed up on two occasions! Do you think if the bolts aren't torqued up enough i.e too little preload, gapping between the caliper and post mount could occur under heavy braking, maybe that would cause it?

    Btw the taped holes aren't quite central to the postmount legs, they are slightly closer (approx 0.5-1mm) to the disc side which is the side the cracks have appeared. Are yours like this?

    They have done a fair amount of mileage probably around 3000 miles, so they are well used but are still running good.

    I'm just interested to see if anyone else has had this issue. From googling i cant find anyone else with this. Tbf its not the usual place to check for a crack so people might not notice. I'm still going to ride them like this, if my front brake fails still got my back one

  95. #4895
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    Nevermind
    Last edited by piciu256; 02-16-2020 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Found a cheap source of Manitou parts in Germany

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    Hi Guys,

    Regarding the semi bath oil that can be use on our forks. Any one tried or heard of STP 5W40, can this be used as semi bath for the stanchions?

    Description
    STP 5W-40 EURO FS 6/1Q
    Inspection Information Test Method Typical Value
    Gravity, �API ASTM D287 34.83
    Specific Gravity @ 60�F (15.6�C) ASTM D4052 0.8507
    Viscosity @ 40�C, cSt ASTM D445 76.77
    Viscosity @ 100�C, cSt ASTM D445 12.95

  97. #4897
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    Semi bath oil viscosity etc. is not important really, all that matters is for the oil to be nice and slick, some oils are more slippery than others, I found Valvoline motor oil to be similar to the sample of Fox Gold I have, at least doing the finger test, it's different viscosity though, but that might be a plus for winter, as in the cold the thick oil can sometimes be too thick.

  98. #4898
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    thanks man

  99. #4899
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    Poppet valve still losing air

    My issue concerning pressure getting to the negative chamber still persists, I filled the air chamber with oil, confirming the guilt of letting air through is the poppet valve, the plunger is retracting properly, it's portruding exactly 1mm as it should, the chambers are equalising properly with pump connected, there is no sudden loss of pressure, just gradual suck down of the fork, it takes just a few hardish bottom outs to lose 5-10mm, I confirmed its the valves fault after finding the valve shaft filled with oil upon doing a few hard compressions, it was empty before since I pumped it up upside down.

  100. #4900
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    Quote Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    My issue concerning pressure getting to the negative chamber still persists, I filled the air chamber with oil, confirming the guilt of letting air through is the poppet valve, the plunger is retracting properly, it's portruding exactly 1mm as it should, the chambers are equalising properly with pump connected, there is no sudden loss of pressure, just gradual suck down of the fork, it takes just a few hardish bottom outs to lose 5-10mm, I confirmed its the valves fault after finding the valve shaft filled with oil upon doing a few hard compressions, it was empty before since I pumped it up upside down.
    You have probably already done so but check the condition of the airspring shaft and the bush it slides through. I had a similar issue on my dorado and id some how managed to put a small score on the airshaft while servicing the fork, it was allowing air migration between the two chambers. Mine was particularly bad because id also managed to do it right at the sag point.

  101. #4901
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    Quote Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    My issue concerning pressure getting to the negative chamber still persists, I filled the air chamber with oil, confirming the guilt of letting air through is the poppet valve, the plunger is retracting properly, it's portruding exactly 1mm as it should, the chambers are equalising properly with pump connected, there is no sudden loss of pressure, just gradual suck down of the fork, it takes just a few hardish bottom outs to lose 5-10mm, I confirmed its the valves fault after finding the valve shaft filled with oil upon doing a few hard compressions, it was empty before since I pumped it up upside down.
    If you are losing fork height that suggests leakage of the main air seal. Either around the outer seal or through the poppet internally.

    Take the piston out and carefully check the seal and groove condition. Change the poppet and piston seals.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  102. #4902
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    For better or worse, my cylinder wall is perfect, no scratches, inspected with a strong inspection light, I disassembled the fork once again (worried I'll damage the footnut if I keep doing it 🙄 ) and bodged an adapter to pressurise the compression shaft with the piston removed (Manitou IFP tool wrapped in Teflon tape of all things ) and it definitely is leaking air through the upper poppet seal, it needs just 100psi for noticeable air flow, more grease makes things worse of all things I discovered, which doesn't make sense for me, but I cleaned all the grease, just lubed it with some oil and with testing outside the fork it seems to be holding pressure this time, so I guess it's a win, if it doesn't work the only thing that remains is to play with the seals a bit, stock poppet seal is 4x1.5mm btw. mayby it's possible to put a little bit bigger one, 1.6mm mayby (if those even exist)

  103. #4903
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    And of course, it's still doing it... Wonder if it has anything to do with me pushing the valve deep inside when assembling the fork (4mm Allen key method) Going to buy meself some o-rings...

  104. #4904
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    I'm tired of this crap, time to give up.

    Not sure about the o-ring size anymore, the old ones were either squashed down or some oddball size, cause the new ones are a little larger, anyway, old o-rings were hard, these are a bit softer, now the poppet holds pressure @300 psi with no leak, so that's fixed, only small issue being that it's reluctant to retract back out, but that doesn't matter much. The real issue is that the fork is still losing travel, I even went ahead and degreased everything to see once again if there are no scratches inside, was ready to buy a fork to swap the parts over, but there is no scratches visible, and if there are some invisible ones, they should not be able to leak that much air this fast with oil and grease in there... I even went ahead and filled the chamber with oil above the piston level and it's still doing it, no oil in the valve now at least... Guess I'll have to remember and re equalise the chambers at least every ride... having 110mm of travel at the end of the day instead of 140 sucks though.

  105. #4905
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    Took a more accurate look at the inside of the stanchion...
    [IMG-20200221-140932.jpg](https://postimg.cc/LqMzG5tv)
    Either I didn't look close enough before, or I didn't want to accept the most costly option, there is no one big scratch anywhere, but the whole inside of the fork is coated in these sort of micro scratches, vertical and round, I guess that's the real reason for the updated piston design... I still cannot understand how can so much air be getting through with oil inside the chamber, how any air can get through with so small imperfections in the first place... But is there any way to mitigate that? Mayby some special grease or something? I'd expect any fork sold for cheap on the used market to have this issue so I don't even think a swap is feasible. New CSU is a no way for my budget...

  106. #4906
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    I'm sure others will chime in too but it may make sense to try using the service kit. It comes with everything that you need as far as orings/seals etc. Here's a link: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...SABEgJqzfD_BwE

    From what I read above I don't think you need a new CSU, just the maint with new orings.

  107. #4907
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    I have replaced all the seals already, I just installed a brand new air piston for that matter Just did a test with no oil in the chamber, just grease, and it's letting air through even faster So the inside stanchion is definitely toast. It's weird to me that it's leaking because I've seen far worse with an old rear shock, and all it resulted in was a little more oil getting out than usual, it held air for many rides on, here 10 full compressions and I have a noticeable suck down. The compression rod also has a scratch for that matter (that's my fault, piece of debris after one of the dissassemblies) and it's not leaking air into the lowers, at least not enough to build up pressure in 3 months, and that scratch I can feel with my fingernail, unlike those in the stanchion, so what gives?

  108. #4908
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    Just a thought, would it be possible to swap damper and air spring sides in this fork? I don't want to take it apart again today, I'm tired, but if the diameter and thread is compatible, I might just have an undamaged inner wall in the right leg, the damper doesn't care for perfect seal so I'd be set there, another idea would be honing the cylinder a little, but I don't know how well that could work, with the anodising etc, though none of the scratches reach to the bare metal so my guess would be that it's possible to fix it.
    Should I create a new thread for my particular issue?

  109. #4909
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    Quote Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    Just a thought, would it be possible to swap damper and air spring sides in this fork? I don't want to take it apart again today, I'm tired, but if the diameter and thread is compatible, I might just have an undamaged inner wall in the right leg, the damper doesn't care for perfect seal so I'd be set there, another idea would be honing the cylinder a little, but I don't know how well that could work, with the anodising etc, though none of the scratches reach to the bare metal so my guess would be that it's possible to fix it.
    Should I create a new thread for my particular issue?
    Yes the stanchions and casting threads are identical left/right.

    Have you changed the air-seal quad? Top-cap seal? Air piston scratched behind the seal?

    I have found two Mattocs with the same symptoms. One had a missing poppet o-ring (no idea why not) and the other had a torn quad-ring on the air piston. It was muppet wrenched.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  110. #4910
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    resolved

    thanks

  111. #4911
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    Thanks everyone for good advice
    Thanks Dougal for confirmation about the left/ right compatibility! Because of the cartridge design of the lower damper assembly, the right leg is in spotless condition, my fork is now not losing travel anymore An added benefit being that my bike looks even more custom than it did before, for anyone who noticed such things...
    The compatibility made me think though, how would an eyeballed zero offset fork ride 🤔 but that's a test for another day, my bike is not long enough for me to be able to spare that much wheelbase.
    Good think I replaced the shock oil too, it started out red, now it has a noticeable yellowish tone to it, suggesting fox gold got inside, rebound damping needing 2 more clicks confirm that possibility. I guess I can afford to change damping oil once a year.

  112. #4912
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    Hi folks.

    I've just bought and installed a mattoc pro from CRC. It was manufactured in June 2019, its a 27.5 boost model with IRT and the mud guard.

    Before fitting I took the lowers off, un-did the air spring from the bottom, pulled it out, pulled off the single travel spacer on there, pushed the air spring back in, tightened it back up and reinstalled the lowers with 7cc of oil in them. Everything done to torque. Travel now set to 170mm.

    Installed on to the frame it felt beautiful. Took it out for a ride and initially it felt great on the trail, but it very quickly developed a knock.

    Closer inspection if I press my thumb against the seal and the stanchion from the front, hold the brake and rock back and forth I can feel a very clear and relatively large amount of fore-and-aft play as the stanchion moves in the lowers. I can only feel this on the damper side stanchion, not the air spring stanchion.

    My immediate suspicion is that this is a bushing issue on the damper side. But I have of course taken them apart and faffed about with them to increase the travel, so I'm concerned its something I've done.

    Could any experts provide any insight? Any other tests I could do to make sure its bushings? Happy to send them back but dont want them to just come back and tell me i cocked something up putting it back together!

    Thanks

  113. #4913
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Hi folks.

    I've just bought and installed a mattoc pro from CRC. It was manufactured in June 2019, its a 27.5 boost model with IRT and the mud guard.

    Before fitting I took the lowers off, un-did the air spring from the bottom, pulled it out, pulled off the single travel spacer on there, pushed the air spring back in, tightened it back up and reinstalled the lowers with 7cc of oil in them. Everything done to torque. Travel now set to 170mm.

    Installed on to the frame it felt beautiful. Took it out for a ride and initially it felt great on the trail, but it very quickly developed a knock.

    Closer inspection if I press my thumb against the seal and the stanchion from the front, hold the brake and rock back and forth I can feel a very clear and relatively large amount of fore-and-aft play as the stanchion moves in the lowers. I can only feel this on the damper side stanchion, not the air spring stanchion.

    My immediate suspicion is that this is a bushing issue on the damper side. But I have of course taken them apart and faffed about with them to increase the travel, so I'm concerned its something I've done.

    Could any experts provide any insight? Any other tests I could do to make sure its bushings? Happy to send them back but dont want them to just come back and tell me i cocked something up putting it back together!

    Thanks
    I had the exact same problem on mine after the first ride except I didn't pull mine apart, I'd bought them from wiggle (same as CRC). Being in NZ I sent them to shockcraft who confirmed it was a faulty bush and they kindly repaired it for me under warranty, I had them fit a high flow damper piston at the same time too.

    It's a bit shit that this problem is still happening but persist with the fork as it's one of the best. I was thinking about upgrading to a Mezzer but I just can't see it being such a big improvement over the Mattoc to justify the cost.

  114. #4914
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Hi folks.

    I've just bought and installed a mattoc pro from CRC. It was manufactured in June 2019, its a 27.5 boost model with IRT and the mud guard.

    Before fitting I took the lowers off, un-did the air spring from the bottom, pulled it out, pulled off the single travel spacer on there, pushed the air spring back in, tightened it back up and reinstalled the lowers with 7cc of oil in them. Everything done to torque. Travel now set to 170mm.

    Installed on to the frame it felt beautiful. Took it out for a ride and initially it felt great on the trail, but it very quickly developed a knock.

    Closer inspection if I press my thumb against the seal and the stanchion from the front, hold the brake and rock back and forth I can feel a very clear and relatively large amount of fore-and-aft play as the stanchion moves in the lowers. I can only feel this on the damper side stanchion, not the air spring stanchion.

    My immediate suspicion is that this is a bushing issue on the damper side. But I have of course taken them apart and faffed about with them to increase the travel, so I'm concerned its something I've done.

    Could any experts provide any insight? Any other tests I could do to make sure its bushings? Happy to send them back but dont want them to just come back and tell me i cocked something up putting it back together!

    Thanks
    90% chance it's the top right bushing.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  115. #4915
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    Thanks Dougal, Lachman. Sounds like my best/only option is to box it up and send it back to CRC. If only Shockcraft wasn't 11,000 miles from the UK!

    Never used CRC for warranty so will be interesting, dont know who the UK distributor is for Manitou either. Hoping for a swift resolution as it transformed the bike compared to the RS Rev it replaced.

  116. #4916
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Thanks Dougal, Lachman. Sounds like my best/only option is to box it up and send it back to CRC. If only Shockcraft wasn't 11,000 miles from the UK!

    Never used CRC for warranty so will be interesting, dont know who the UK distributor is for Manitou either. Hoping for a swift resolution as it transformed the bike compared to the RS Rev it replaced.
    The UK Manitou distributor is Hotlines. Who happen to share exact location and contact details with CRC.........
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  117. #4917
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Installed on to the frame it felt beautiful. Took it out for a ride and initially it felt great on the trail, but it very quickly developed a knock.

    Closer inspection if I [...] hold the brake and rock back and forth I can feel a very clear and relatively large amount of fore-and-aft play as the stanchion moves in the lowers. I can only feel this on the damper side stanchion, not the air spring stanchion.
    My new Mattoc Pro 27+/29 from CRC had the same issue. I'm in the US so I contacted Manitou warranty here and they promptly sent me new replacement lowers (gave me the option of sending in the fork or shipping me new lowers). I just haven't had time yet to replace them. Great customer service!

  118. #4918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derg33 View Post
    I'm wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what might be causing my forks to bottom out before I strip them down. I recently gave them a full service as they gave up the ghost on an uplift day. I lost most of my travel and wouldn't even rebound with the wheel off the ground. They were feeling great after the service but now after 7 or 8 rides this has happened.

    Any help or advice is much appreciated.

    Regards

    Martyn
    Thanks for replies on this and sorry for late response. I stripped the damper again and reset the oil height which sorted the problem. I had used a different tool to set the oil height but hadn't taken into consideration how much the oil would be displaced with the tool inserted. I went back to my original way of setting the oil and all is good. Been riding on them for quite some time and they're back to working mint.

    Many thanks.

    Martyn

  119. #4919
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    Quote Originally Posted by kartracer View Post
    My new Mattoc Pro 27+/29 from CRC had the same issue. I'm in the US so I contacted Manitou warranty here and they promptly sent me new replacement lowers (gave me the option of sending in the fork or shipping me new lowers). I just haven't had time yet to replace them. Great customer service!
    Aha that is the ideal resolution. CRC have agreed to take it back and have a look at it. I'll post up with the conclusion for anyone reading this in the same situation in the UK.

    Seeing as they've now dropped to £330 on CRC there may be some! Tempted to pick up another for spares and repairs for that...

  120. #4920
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    I'm guessing the $373 Mattoc that is on sale on Chain Reaction Cycles wont miraculously also work with a 29" wheel, will it?

  121. #4921
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    Calling my Mattoc Pro friends.

    I think I might have pulled the trigger a bit too early on a used Mattoc Pro 3. - or at least thatís what Iíve been told it is.
    I was looking for a upgrade for my Manitou Machete where I roll on 29x3.00.

    Seller told me that itís boost 27,5+/29+. Dorado Air w. internal adjustments to 130-140mm.

    Can anyone confirm this by looking at these pics?

    Please say Iím good to go

    Edit. Sorry for the bad pics.


  122. #4922
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    Quote Originally Posted by richulr View Post
    I'm guessing the $373 Mattoc that is on sale on Chain Reaction Cycles wont miraculously also work with a 29" wheel, will it?
    No, not likely. Maybe with a 1.25 road tire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    Calling my Mattoc Pro friends.

    I think I might have pulled the trigger a bit too early on a used Mattoc Pro 3. - or at least thatís what Iíve been told it is.
    I was looking for a upgrade for my Manitou Machete where I roll on 29x3.00.

    Seller told me that itís boost 27,5+/29+. Dorado Air w. internal adjustments to 130-140mm.

    Can anyone confirm this by looking at these pics?
    Those pics are tough to read anything. I think the mattoc 3 would have come with the hexlock SL instead of the quick lever. That also looks like it might be a standard air cap or IVA air cap, and not the IRT the mattoc 3 would have come with. It might be a magnum, but I cant tell just from looking at the chassis. If it is a mattoc, the 27.5+ went to 140mm travel, and the 29+ only went to 120mm. The 27.5+ version will squeeze in a standard 29x2.2 but wont fit 29x3.0.

    Aside from the lack of IRT, and Hexlock SL, I believe the the damper and chassis are the same.

  123. #4923
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    Mattoc for plus tires is called a Magnum, Mattoc is not plus compatible (though some fit 2.8" but it's a tight fit) if it's really 140mm Max then it's the Magnum and you're good.

  124. #4924
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    No, not likely. Maybe with a 1.25 road tire.



    Those pics are tough to read anything. I think the mattoc 3 would have come with the hexlock SL instead of the quick lever. That also looks like it might be a standard air cap or IVA air cap, and not the IRT the mattoc 3 would have come with. It might be a magnum, but I cant tell just from looking at the chassis. If it is a mattoc, the 27.5+ went to 140mm travel, and the 29+ only went to 120mm. The 27.5+ version will squeeze in a standard 29x2.2 but wont fit 29x3.0.

    Aside from the lack of IRT, and Hexlock SL, I believe the the damper and chassis are the same.
    Bummer. This is the information I got from the seller. If it tells you anything.

  125. #4925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    Bummer. This is the information I got from the seller. If it tells you anything.
    Based on my limited knowledge, I would say this is clearly mislabeled. Its certainly not a Mattoc 3. And if its 27.5+/29 size, it wont fit a 29+ tire. If it is a 29+ size, it wont stretch to 130 or 140.

    My guess is its most likely the magnum pro. If it clears your 29x3.0 tire, and you can live with 120mm travel, it could be a good buy if the price is right. You can always upgrade to the IRT and hexlock SL and have an identical fork to the mattoc 3. Might need to update the seals too, but thats not a bad idea on any used fork.

  126. #4926
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Based on my limited knowledge, I would say this is clearly mislabeled. Its certainly not a Mattoc 3. And if its 27.5+/29 size, it wont fit a 29+ tire. If it is a 29+ size, it wont stretch to 130 or 140.

    My guess is its most likely the magnum pro. If it clears your 29x3.0 tire, and you can live with 120mm travel, it could be a good buy if the price is right. You can always upgrade to the IRT and hexlock SL and have an identical fork to the mattoc 3. Might need to update the seals too, but thats not a bad idea on any used fork.
    Thank you. Could it be a Mattoc Comp? Seller told me he had it on a Nukeproof Scout and from what I can see it came stock on a Scout from a few years back and with 140mm travel.

    My Machete is 120mm and was looking to upgrade to 130mm at least. I think I have to sell it again once I get my hands on it as it most likely wont fit my 29x3.00 setup.

  127. #4927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    Thank you. Could it be a Mattoc Comp? Seller told me he had it on a Nukeproof Scout and from what I can see it came stock on a Scout from a few years back and with 140mm travel.

    My Machete is 120mm and was looking to upgrade to 130mm at least. I think I have to sell it again once I get my hands on it as it most likely wont fit my 29x3.00 setup.
    I dont think its a comp, since it appears to be the MC2 damper. But unfortunately as far as I know theres no manitou option to fit both 29x3 and 130+ travel, at least not in the mattoc/magnum line.

    But if it happens to be that your fork is the 29+, you owe it to yourself to at least try the fork. The fork will be much more usable throughout its range. With the hydraulic bottom out, you might be able to run lower pressure without worry of bottoming out hard. That could make the fork feel longer than it actually is. Then with the IRT, the fork really comes alive. If you really wanted the extra length to slacken the head tube angle, consider an angleset, or even a crown race spacer. If you still dont like it, then sell it.

  128. #4928
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I dont think its a comp, since it appears to be the MC2 damper. But unfortunately as far as I know theres no manitou option to fit both 29x3 and 130+ travel, at least not in the mattoc/magnum line.

    But if it happens to be that your fork is the 29+, you owe it to yourself to at least try the fork. The fork will be much more usable throughout its range. With the hydraulic bottom out, you might be able to run lower pressure without worry of bottoming out hard. That could make the fork feel longer than it actually is. Then with the IRT, the fork really comes alive. If you really wanted the extra length to slacken the head tube angle, consider an angleset, or even a crown race spacer. If you still dont like it, then sell it.
    Thank you again. I hope to get it delivered tomorrow. I will take a few more pics and share it.

  129. #4929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    Calling my Mattoc Pro friends.

    I think I might have pulled the trigger a bit too early on a used Mattoc Pro 3. - or at least thatís what Iíve been told it is.
    I was looking for a upgrade for my Manitou Machete where I roll on 29x3.00.

    Seller told me that itís boost 27,5+/29+. Dorado Air w. internal adjustments to 130-140mm.

    Can anyone confirm this by looking at these pics?

    Please say Iím good to go

    Edit. Sorry for the bad pics.

    I got a [27.5+/29] 120~140mm variant of Mattoc proc 3. My axle is hex lock and not QL type. Also there is no 27.5+/29+ variant as far as I can tell based from Manitou Website. There is 29+ which is 120mm by default and most likely can be adjusted upto 140mm, again that's just based on details from Manitou website.

    Mattoc Travels:

    100mm (adjustable 80-100mm);
    120mm (adjustable 120-140mm);
    160mm (adjustable 140-170mm)

    Crown To axle

    549mm (27.5" BOOST);
    555mm (27.5" non-BOOST);
    509mm (27.5+/29" 100mm travel);
    529 (27.5+/29" 120mm travel);
    531mm (29+ 100mm travel);
    551mm (29+ 120mm travel)

  130. #4930
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Aha that is the ideal resolution. CRC have agreed to take it back and have a look at it. I'll post up with the conclusion for anyone reading this in the same situation in the UK.

    Seeing as they've now dropped to £330 on CRC there may be some! Tempted to pick up another for spares and repairs for that...
    For those that bought the 2019 Mattoc Pro from CRC, did it come with the QR or the Hexlock SL? Has anyone gotten one from CRC that did NOT have a bad bushing????

  131. #4931
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerKamote View Post
    I got a [27.5+/29] 120~140mm variant of Mattoc proc 3. My axle is hex lock and not QL type. Also there is no 27.5+/29+ variant as far as I can tell based from Manitou Website. There is 29+ which is 120mm by default and most likely can be adjusted upto 140mm, again that's just based on details from Manitou website.

    Mattoc Travels:

    100mm (adjustable 80-100mm);
    120mm (adjustable 120-140mm);
    160mm (adjustable 140-170mm)

    Crown To axle

    549mm (27.5" BOOST);
    555mm (27.5" non-BOOST);
    509mm (27.5+/29" 100mm travel);
    529 (27.5+/29" 120mm travel);
    531mm (29+ 100mm travel);
    551mm (29+ 120mm travel)
    Interesting. I just heard from the seller that itís 551mm from Crown to Axel. Oh well. I will keep you all informed once it arrives
    Thank you!

  132. #4932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    Interesting. I just heard from the seller that itís 551mm from Crown to Axel. Oh well. I will keep you all informed once it arrives
    Thank you!
    You will be able to tell when you look at the sticker on the back of the lowers. Its blurry in the pictures.

    As said, the 27.5+/29 version goes to 140mm travel. The 29+ only stretches to 120mm.

    Its it's the 27.5+/29 version, you can try the tire, but don't assume you are okay if the tire clears the arch. You need to check if the tire clears the crown at full bottom out to be safe. Spec is 5mm of clearance at the crown during full bottom out to leave room for tire flex.

    Quote Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    Mattoc for plus tires is called a Magnum, Mattoc is not plus compatible (though some fit 2.8" but it's a tight fit) if it's really 140mm Max then it's the Magnum and you're good.
    The Magnum series is no longer produced and was rolled into the Mattoc namesake starting with the Mattoc Pro 3. Same rules apply as if it's a magnum. 29+ is it's own fork that only stretches to 120mm and the 27.5+(can run 3" tires)/29 (2.6" Tires officially) version will stretch to 140mm.

  133. #4933
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    Quote Originally Posted by aski View Post
    For those that bought the 2019 Mattoc Pro from CRC, did it come with the QR or the Hexlock SL? Has anyone gotten one from CRC that did NOT have a bad bushing????
    No recent CRC customers following this thread currently?

  134. #4934
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerKamote View Post
    I got a [27.5+/29] 120~140mm variant of Mattoc proc 3. My axle is hex lock and not QL type. Also there is no 27.5+/29+ variant as far as I can tell based from Manitou Website. There is 29+ which is 120mm by default and most likely can be adjusted upto 140mm, again that's just based on details from Manitou website.

    Mattoc Travels:

    100mm (adjustable 80-100mm);
    120mm (adjustable 120-140mm);
    160mm (adjustable 140-170mm)

    Crown To axle

    549mm (27.5" BOOST);
    555mm (27.5" non-BOOST);
    509mm (27.5+/29" 100mm travel);
    529 (27.5+/29" 120mm travel);
    531mm (29+ 100mm travel);
    551mm (29+ 120mm travel)
    Do you happen to have the weight on that? Wonder if it really is 4.5 lb

  135. #4935
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    So, what is this bushing issue people are having? I think I mentioned last year, that I kept hearing a clunk, when hitting rocks etc. At first I thought it was a loose headset, or something else. Could it be a bushing issue? Also bought from CRC, but it's Pro 2. 27.5"

  136. #4936
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I dont think its a comp, since it appears to be the MC2 damper. But unfortunately as far as I know theres no manitou option to fit both 29x3 and 130+ travel, at least not in the mattoc/magnum line.

    But if it happens to be that your fork is the 29+, you owe it to yourself to at least try the fork. The fork will be much more usable throughout its range. With the hydraulic bottom out, you might be able to run lower pressure without worry of bottoming out hard. That could make the fork feel longer than it actually is. Then with the IRT, the fork really comes alive. If you really wanted the extra length to slacken the head tube angle, consider an angleset, or even a crown race spacer. If you still dont like it, then sell it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerKamote View Post
    I got a [27.5+/29] 120~140mm variant of Mattoc proc 3. My axle is hex lock and not QL type. Also there is no 27.5+/29+ variant as far as I can tell based from Manitou Website. There is 29+ which is 120mm by default and most likely can be adjusted upto 140mm, again that's just based on details from Manitou website.

    Mattoc Travels:

    100mm (adjustable 80-100mm);
    120mm (adjustable 120-140mm);
    160mm (adjustable 140-170mm)

    Crown To axle

    549mm (27.5" BOOST);
    555mm (27.5" non-BOOST);
    509mm (27.5+/29" 100mm travel);
    529 (27.5+/29" 120mm travel);
    531mm (29+ 100mm travel);
    551mm (29+ 120mm travel)
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    You will be able to tell when you look at the sticker on the back of the lowers. Its blurry in the pictures.

    As said, the 27.5+/29 version goes to 140mm travel. The 29+ only stretches to 120mm.

    Its it's the 27.5+/29 version, you can try the tire, but don't assume you are okay if the tire clears the arch. You need to check if the tire clears the crown at full bottom out to be safe. Spec is 5mm of clearance at the crown during full bottom out to leave room for tire flex.



    The Magnum series is no longer produced and was rolled into the Mattoc namesake starting with the Mattoc Pro 3. Same rules apply as if it's a magnum. 29+ is it's own fork that only stretches to 120mm and the 27.5+(can run 3" tires)/29 (2.6" Tires officially) version will stretch to 140mm.
    Okay I just received it with UPS. Super poorly packed from the seller but no damages it seems.

    I've added a few pictures. Fitted with 3.00 chubs



  137. #4937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    Okay I just received it with UPS. Super poorly packed from the seller but no damages it seems.

    I've added a few pictures. Fitted with 3.00 chubs
    Awesome that it clears the 3.0 tire! Looks like the 29+ variant to me. But I still think its limited to 120mm travel, unless someone has hacked and unofficially stretched it, but I havent heard of anyone doing this yet.

    Regardless, I think you should try it at 120 and see how it does. It would do even better with the IRT. Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

  138. #4938
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Awesome that it clears the 3.0 tire! Looks like the 29+ variant to me. But I still think its limited to 120mm travel, unless someone has hacked and unofficially stretched it, but I havent heard of anyone doing this yet.

    Regardless, I think you should try it at 120 and see how it does. It would do even better with the IRT. Good luck, I hope it works out for you.
    yeah.. it will be a upgrade from the Machete anyways right?

  139. #4939
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    It is, if you had the Kwik toggle damper, then it's a big upgrade, with ABS+ a little upgrade, the air spring is not as refined and there is not nearly so much external adjustment+ no HBO.

  140. #4940
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    Quote Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    It is, if you had the Kwik toggle damper, then it's a big upgrade, with ABS+ a little upgrade, the air spring is not as refined and there is not nearly so much external adjustment+ no HBO.
    You mean ABS+ on the machete, right? His pics show the MC2 damper with HBO and all the bells and whisles except IRT. Its a good fork. If he can upgrade to IRT, it will be even better. I wouldnt worry about it only being 120, the travel is gonna be a lot more active and capable on this new fork. Theres a big difference between my magnum pro with MC2/IRT and my mattoc comp with the ABS+.

  141. #4941
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    You mean ABS+ on the machete, right? His pics show the MC2 damper with HBO and all the bells and whisles except IRT. Its a good fork. If he can upgrade to IRT, it will be even better. I wouldnt worry about it only being 120, the travel is gonna be a lot more active and capable on this new fork. Theres a big difference between my magnum pro with MC2/IRT and my mattoc comp with the ABS+.
    That makes me happy to hear. What would it take to upgrade to IRT?

  142. #4942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian94568 View Post
    That makes me happy to hear. What would it take to upgrade to IRT?
    About 75 bucks and a wrench.

    Ride it as is for now. You can do the upgrade any time. Make sure you like the fork first, and its functioning correctly.

  143. #4943
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    About 75 bucks and a wrench.

    Ride it as is for now. You can do the upgrade any time. Make sure you like the fork first, and its functioning correctly.
    Cool. I will. Picture shows the Mattoc compared to the Machete


  144. #4944
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    Quote Originally Posted by aski View Post
    No recent CRC customers following this thread currently?
    I bought a Mattoc Pro Boost last month from CRC. No problem with bushings so far, probably only done about 8k feet of descending though. I'm sufficiently confident though that I've bought another one for my second bike; wanted a Mezzer but for £320 the Mattoc is too cheap to ignore.

  145. #4945
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    Quote Originally Posted by will1994 View Post
    I bought a Mattoc Pro Boost last month from CRC. No problem with bushings so far, probably only done about 8k feet of descending though. I'm sufficiently confident though that I've bought another one for my second bike; wanted a Mezzer but for £320 the Mattoc is too cheap to ignore.
    Thanks for that info. Just curious, did it come with the hexlock or QR axle? The Manitou site states the Mattoc Pro 3 comes stock with the hexlock. The CRC product description says it comes with QR. I was wondering if CRC is altering the stock fork items or if this is another example of CRC product descriptions being erroneous?

  146. #4946
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    Quote Originally Posted by aski View Post
    Thanks for that info. Just curious, did it come with the hexlock or QR axle? The Manitou site states the Mattoc Pro 3 comes stock with the hexlock. The CRC product description says it comes with QR. I was wondering if CRC is altering the stock fork items or if this is another example of CRC product descriptions being erroneous?
    It cones with the hexlock. Better design than the QR imo, used a first generation mattoc for a number of years and over time the plastic bushing and internal spring of the QR seemed to wear and 'stretch' quite appreciably. The hexlock is preferable from an aesthetic perspective too.

  147. #4947
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    Quote Originally Posted by will1994 View Post
    I bought a Mattoc Pro Boost last month from CRC. No problem with bushings so far, probably only done about 8k feet of descending though. I'm sufficiently confident though that I've bought another one for my second bike; wanted a Mezzer but for £320 the Mattoc is too cheap to ignore.
    Could you share the A2C and travel of your Mattoc Pro Boost from CRC? The website lists 160mm travel and A2C 555mm, which only match non-boost 27.5 spec. I am wondering if this is 27.5 boost version or the 27.5+/29 version. Thanks much.

  148. #4948
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    Quote Originally Posted by upsha View Post
    Could you share the A2C and travel of your Mattoc Pro Boost from CRC? The website lists 160mm travel and A2C 555mm, which only match non-boost 27.5 spec. I am wondering if this is 27.5 boost version or the 27.5+/29 version. Thanks much.
    Axle to crown is 535mm set at 140mm and it is the 27.5 boost version. The A2C measurements Manitou list for the 'Boost' forks appear to be outdated, according to Dougal of this forum the reason for the initial Boost forks having shorter A2C's at equivalent travel was a longer top out bumper, resulting in an effective reduction in travel. The A2C on my fork (and if I recall correctly, Dougal's) is the same as the equivalent travel non Boost, indicating that Manitou no longer install the taller top out bumper in their Boost forks.

  149. #4949
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    Also an unfortunate addendum to my previous comment, while at the time I hadn't really noticed anything untoward, on yesterdays ride I paid a little extra attention to possible play in the bushings and did in fact notice some. Testing it more thoroughly after getting home I found that there's a noticeable degree of play in both bushings, though more so in the right hand damper leg. It is noticeable both laterally and torsionally.

    I have a first gen Mattoc on my old hardtail so I applied the same tests (bike upside down, front brake on, applying lateral and torsional load to the fork) and found almost no play whatsoever. I then tried to evaluate whether the play was resulting in any appreciable binding of the fork stanchions; again comparing the original Mattoc to my new one there does in fact seem to be a small but noticeable degree of binding when the fork is loaded either laterally or torsionally that is absent in my (5 year old!) original Mattoc.

    I found that track standing with the fork turned at an acute angle while slightly leaning over and pumping the fork resulted in an appreciable amount of binding. Not enough to actually prevent the fork compressing but noticeable nonetheless.

    I'm unsure what, if any, effect this has on the trail but I am sufficiently concerned that I'm now considering returning the second fork I'd ordered for my Enduro bike - any bushing issues noticeable at 140mm will likely be significantly accentuated at 170mm.

  150. #4950
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    Quote Originally Posted by will1994 View Post
    Axle to crown is 535mm set at 140mm and it is the 27.5 boost version. The A2C measurements Manitou list for the 'Boost' forks appear to be outdated, according to Dougal of this forum the reason for the initial Boost forks having shorter A2C's at equivalent travel was a longer top out bumper, resulting in an effective reduction in travel. The A2C on my fork (and if I recall correctly, Dougal's) is the same as the equivalent travel non Boost, indicating that Manitou no longer install the taller top out bumper in their Boost forks.
    Really appreciate the details you provided!

  151. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by will1994 View Post
    Also an unfortunate addendum to my previous comment, while at the time I hadn't really noticed anything untoward, on yesterdays ride I paid a little extra attention to possible play in the bushings and did in fact notice some. Testing it more thoroughly after getting home I found that there's a noticeable degree of play in both bushings, though more so in the right hand damper leg. It is noticeable both laterally and torsionally.
    Thanks for the update. I've often wondered if some of the better deals on CRC didn't come from returned or refurbished product. It also seems that Manitou customer service and warranty is a bit inconsistent and varies with geographical location. Makes me hesitant to pull the trigger.

  152. #4952
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    Quote Originally Posted by aski View Post
    Thanks for the update. I've often wondered if some of the better deals on CRC didn't come from returned or refurbished product. It also seems that Manitou customer service and warranty is a bit inconsistent and varies with geographical location. Makes me hesitant to pull the trigger.
    AFAIK Manitou don't sell refurbished or returned product. You're often looking at an OEM special order product.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  153. #4953
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    Quote Originally Posted by aski View Post
    Thanks for the update. I've often wondered if some of the better deals on CRC didn't come from returned or refurbished product. It also seems that Manitou customer service and warranty is a bit inconsistent and varies with geographical location. Makes me hesitant to pull the trigger.
    You probably saw my post earlier in the thread but I bought a 27.5 boost mattoc from crc about a month ago. Play in the bushings at 170 was significant, definitely unrideable. Been with crc for a while now, I'll post up when I get an update.

  154. #4954
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    Does anyone happen to have a spare compression rod assembly?

  155. #4955
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    You probably saw my post earlier in the thread but I bought a 27.5 boost mattoc from crc about a month ago. Play in the bushings at 170 was significant, definitely unrideable. Been with crc for a while now, I'll post up when I get an update.
    It is incredible that manitou has not yet recalled all those forks. they only hurt him

    Enviado desde mi Redmi 5 Plus mediante Tapatalk

  156. #4956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I found the cause of this today. It is the ABS+ compression damper check shim causing the knock on a slightly conical piston face. I think virtually all owners reporting bushing knock actually have this damper knock and the bushings are fine.

    To fix it. Remove the ABS+ damper, undo the bottom nut, take off the piston and polish the bottom surface flat using fine emery paper on a dead flat surface.

    Clean the piston and reinstall.

    Hello Dougal,
    have the same "knocking" issue (Mattoc Comp 2017, 29 boost), so I did as you recommended: I stripped down the ABS+ damper, removed the compression piston, grounded and lapped the check valve side of it to mirror finish(It was in fact slightly concave towards the center), but still got the noise with compression applied.




    Isn't the piston too thin now?

    Also the rebound knob (just 7/8 clicks?) seems to have almost no effect on the behaviour of the forks.
    What should I do?

    Thank you in advance!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mattoc-img_3235.jpg  


  157. #4957
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    Quote Originally Posted by col.tello View Post
    Hello Dougal,
    have the same "knocking" issue (Mattoc Comp 2017, 29 boost), so I did as you recommended: I stripped down the ABS+ damper, removed the compression piston, grounded and lapped the check valve side of it to mirror finish(It was in fact slightly concave towards the center), but still got the noise with compression applied.




    Isn't the piston too thin now?

    Also the rebound knob (just 7/8 clicks?) seems to have almost no effect on the behaviour of the forks.
    What should I do?

    Thank you in advance!
    The piston change in thickness isn't an issue. I would check out your rebound damper. If it has no effect with the adjuster then something may be holding a shim open. That could be your knocking too.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  158. #4958
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    Hi folks, last update from me. CRC accepted the warranty return for the loose bushing, but as usual they wont repair. So I've got a new set in the post, no saying these will be any better as there's clearly been a batch with the issue. Lets see...

  159. #4959
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Hi folks, last update from me. CRC accepted the warranty return for the loose bushing, but as usual they wont repair. So I've got a new set in the post, no saying these will be any better as there's clearly been a batch with the issue. Lets see...
    Thanks for the update. I've been on the fence about trying one, but decided to hold off. Hopefully you'll get a good one this time.

  160. #4960
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    Got a new Mattoc Pro 27.5 110x15 from a private deal. Can't tell if it's the Pro 2 or Pro 3 as it's not marked. Has IRT and the newest paint/sticker scheme.

    With cut steerer came to 1775g. Haven't ridden it yet, just set it up with the recommended settings on air and rebound. 160lb rider.

  161. #4961
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    Got a new Mattoc Pro 27.5 110x15 from a private deal. Can't tell if it's the Pro 2 or Pro 3 as it's not marked. Has IRT and the newest paint/sticker scheme.

    With cut steerer came to 1775g. Haven't ridden it yet, just set it up with the recommended settings on air and rebound. 160lb rider.
    Boost 110 is pro 3. 15x100 is pro 2

  162. #4962
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    Thank you! I just came back to edit my post saying I had educated myself lol.

  163. #4963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The fork will take some time - 20 to 30 hours of saddle time to break in.


    OK this makes me feel better. 3 rides so far, it does OK, it does feel a little better on chunky loose stuff than an XC fork, but not a lot better. Downhill times are solid but not 'better' than with a 120mm fork. So I'll just keep riding it and hope it breaks in just right. Because if it doesn't, I don't see the point of going above XC-level forks if it's not even that much better in rougher conditions.

    One other thing, it seems like the rebound bounces the front end off-center an inch or two on bigger hits. Rebound is set to 5, should not be doing that. The fork just feels less...precise than an XC one. More dials, but less precision...in contrast, XC forks go down and back straight up exactly, every time, no matter the size of obstacle. This fork feels like the rebound has play in it, that the aluminum housing is squirming a bit, possibly due to 160mm travel but with only 4.1 lbs total weight for the pro version? Maybe a 4.5 to 5.0 lb fork would feel more solid for this travel length?

  164. #4964
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    OK this makes me feel better. 3 rides so far, it does OK, it does feel a little better on chunky loose stuff than an XC fork, but not a lot better. Downhill times are solid but not 'better' than with a 120mm fork. So I'll just keep riding it and hope it breaks in just right. Because if it doesn't, I don't see the point of going above XC-level forks if it's not even that much better in rougher conditions.

    One other thing, it seems like the rebound bounces the front end off-center an inch or two on bigger hits. Rebound is set to 5, should not be doing that. The fork just feels less...precise than an XC one. More dials, but less precision...in contrast, XC forks go down and back straight up exactly, every time, no matter the size of obstacle. This fork feels like the rebound has play in it, that the aluminum housing is squirming a bit, possibly due to 160mm travel but with only 4.1 lbs total weight for the pro version? Maybe a 4.5 to 5.0 lb fork would feel more solid for this travel length?
    What are your settings? It sounds far too firm.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  165. #4965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    What are your settings? It sounds far too firm.


    As a previous post said, 50-200 miles of break-in and I have 30 miles.

    Settings vary of course. Flat surfaces I turn the slow and fast dials all the way to the right, (relatively closed). I noticed that there is no real lockout, but both dials closed is only about 20mm of travel left on a flat surface and that's good enough as locked out.

    Downhill I turned both dials all the way to the left (open) for the first two rides, then the 3rd ride I had the low speed 1/4 or open but the fast was 3/6 or half-open. So generally all the way open downhill, rebound 5/10, I didn't set the psi but if I push down hard on the handlebars with everything open it travels about 80-100mm, so I don't think it's too firm, right?

    Bottom line: I'm not an AM/DH dude, I'm just doing this for fun to see if I can do some chunkier trails faster or not. If this air spring loosens up and does great, cool. If not, I have an XC bike that does just fine on most trails anyway. A longer fork like this and aluminum frame are more comfy (hardtail, not FS), absorb bumps better, but for now the actual performance is only marginally better than 120mm / carbon frame, if at all. Just my experience so far.

  166. #4966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The piston change in thickness isn't an issue. I would check out your rebound damper. If it has no effect with the adjuster then something may be holding a shim open. That could be your knocking too.
    Thank you Dougal. Will have a look.

  167. #4967
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova123 View Post
    Hi folks, last update from me. CRC accepted the warranty return for the loose bushing, but as usual they wont repair. So I've got a new set in the post, no saying these will be any better as there's clearly been a batch with the issue. Lets see...
    I have to admit I got my Mattoc Comp from a reputable german online shop, and still loose bushings(by a lot) plus, knocking noise. I don't know what's going on with QC.
    It seems Manitou CS will not support me, but I will have to deal with the seller.

  168. #4968
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    As a previous post said, 50-200 miles of break-in and I have 30 miles.

    Settings vary of course. Flat surfaces I turn the slow and fast dials all the way to the right, (relatively closed). I noticed that there is no real lockout, but both dials closed is only about 20mm of travel left on a flat surface and that's good enough as locked out.

    Downhill I turned both dials all the way to the left (open) for the first two rides, then the 3rd ride I had the low speed 1/4 or open but the fast was 3/6 or half-open. So generally all the way open downhill, rebound 5/10, I didn't set the psi but if I push down hard on the handlebars with everything open it travels about 80-100mm, so I don't think it's too firm, right?

    Bottom line: I'm not an AM/DH dude, I'm just doing this for fun to see if I can do some chunkier trails faster or not. If this air spring loosens up and does great, cool. If not, I have an XC bike that does just fine on most trails anyway. A longer fork like this and aluminum frame are more comfy (hardtail, not FS), absorb bumps better, but for now the actual performance is only marginally better than 120mm / carbon frame, if at all. Just my experience so far.
    I'm not sure what you weigh, but I generally have the low speed fully closed, one click of HSC from open and rebound two or three from open. I'm 80kg and running 170mm and last ride had the fork pressure at 40/80psi (main /IRT).

  169. #4969
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    Edit, I first rode the fork with everything open, but it took me awhile to realise that the HSC was related to LSC. And I stand to be corrected but the HSC dial won't do anything until the LSC is being closed.
    I only ever open it up when I'm knackered and just rolling back to the car on fumes. The LSC/HSC add composure to the bike, not necessarily comfort or plushness, but the bike goes exactly where I want it.

  170. #4970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The UK Manitou distributor is Hotlines. Who happen to share exact location and contact details with CRC.........
    Dougal - CRC and hotlines are in different countries.

    also interested in your high flow piston (mattoc). can you explain the pros and cons of having more oil flow?

  171. #4971
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    Dougal - CRC and hotlines are in different countries.

    also interested in your high flow piston (mattoc). can you explain the pros and cons of having more oil flow?
    They appear to be split location now. They used to share the exact address with CRC. I'm guessing stuff got reorganised after they acquired Wiggle.

    The high flow piston reduces unwanted damping from the midvalve ports. This is so you can run more compression damping in the basevalve where you can control it properly.

    The result is greatly reduced harshness and being able to run more LSC for better stability and bump control.

    It was such a good idea the Manitou engineers put them in the new Mezzer damper!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  172. #4972
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    hotlines have been in Edinburgh for as long as I can remember and CRC were in NI before wiggle bought them.

    TBH I can't feel a difference with LSC open or closed on the trails. I'm probably not going to notice a valve change either lol.

  173. #4973
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    hotlines have been in Edinburgh for as long as I can remember and CRC were in NI before wiggle bought them.

    TBH I can't feel a difference with LSC open or closed on the trails. I'm probably not going to notice a valve change either lol.
    See below. Both companies have the same registered office:

    HOTLINES EUROPE LTD

    Company number NI058521
    Registered office address
    5 Trench Road, Mallusk, Newtonabbey, Northern Ireland, BT36 4TY
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI058521

    CHAIN REACTION CYCLES LTD

    Company number NI036744
    Registered office address
    5 Trench Road, Mallusk, Newtonabbey, Northern Ireland, BT36 4TY
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI036744

    Both are owned by Mapil Bidco Limited:

    Which is owned by Mapil Midco 2 Limited:

    Which is owned by Mapil Midco 1 Limited:

    Which is owned by Mapil Topco Limited:

    It just keeps on going.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  174. #4974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post

    The high flow piston reduces unwanted damping from the midvalve ports. This is so you can run more compression damping in the basevalve where you can control it properly.

    The result is greatly reduced harshness and being able to run more LSC for better stability and bump control.

    It was such a good idea the Manitou engineers put them in the new Mezzer damper!
    Can a home mechanic buy such a high flow piston and instal it? Is a revalve needed?
    I upgraded my expert to a pro so in the future i might be able to upgrade to the high flow piston. Small steps

    One more question; I have a 160 mm mattoc 27.5". Can i get it to 170 mm.
    Reason is that i have it fitted to a bike that was designed around a 170 mm fork. Thing is that the 160 mm mattoc feels much better than the 170 mm Lyrik
    So i want to get the geo back.

    If i had a bigger salary i would buy a mezzer.

  175. #4975
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    If you have the Mattoc Pro Boost model then yes you can remove the pre-installed spacer on the air shaft and extend travel to 170mm

  176. #4976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    See below. Both companies have the same registered office:

    HOTLINES EUROPE LTD

    Company number NI058521
    Registered office address
    5 Trench Road, Mallusk, Newtonabbey, Northern Ireland, BT36 4TY
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI058521

    CHAIN REACTION CYCLES LTD

    Company number NI036744
    Registered office address
    5 Trench Road, Mallusk, Newtonabbey, Northern Ireland, BT36 4TY
    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI036744

    Both are owned by Mapil Bidco Limited:

    Which is owned by Mapil Midco 2 Limited:

    Which is owned by Mapil Midco 1 Limited:

    Which is owned by Mapil Topco Limited:

    It just keeps on going.
    ah I was talking about the actual place they are in not the address registered with company's house. Thats a different thing to the actual building they actually reside in. Slight crossing of paths there.

  177. #4977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    I'm not sure what you weigh, but I generally have the low speed fully closed, one click of HSC from open and rebound two or three from open. I'm 80kg and running 170mm and last ride had the fork pressure at 40/80psi (main /IRT).

    Fork is broken in! It doesn't feel sloppy now and I'm starting to smash personal records. Not the fastest down every trail but it's working correctly now. I'm 155 lbs. Max travel used by the plastic ring position is 80-85% now, so it's pretty much done breaking in. Unless I'm pedaling a lot on a downhill segment I'll turn everything on open; if there is a decent amount of pedaling I'll use 1/2 open for fast, and completely open for slow. Have not changed rebound from 5/10 yet.

  178. #4978
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Fork is broken in! It doesn't feel sloppy now and I'm starting to smash personal records. Not the fastest down every trail but it's working correctly now. I'm 155 lbs. Max travel used by the plastic ring position is 80-85% now, so it's pretty much done breaking in. Unless I'm pedaling a lot on a downhill segment I'll turn everything on open; if there is a decent amount of pedaling I'll use 1/2 open for fast, and completely open for slow. Have not changed rebound from 5/10 yet.
    Ah that's good news. Still you're lighter than me and running more rebound. How does the fork feel with the rebound almost open? I wouldn't think of the LSC as being critical to pedalling, it's set and forget for me.

    Here are some other user settings.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...iZA/edit#gid=0

  179. #4979
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    Can someone tell me which Mattoc/Magnum model fits 29x2.6 tires?
    Also, I need 140mm travel and 42-44 offset not 51 and it is too confusing to figure out if they even make this and which it is.
    will this work - https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod193943

    thanks,DT

  180. #4980
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    Hi, I also have a question for the experts. I want to put a 140mm Mattoc on my trail bike, and that gives two options - One model lengthened to 140 as its max travel, or another model shortened to 140 as its minimum travel. This will be 27.5. Which model would be better?

  181. #4981
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    Hi, I also have a question for the experts. I want to put a 140mm Mattoc on my trail bike, and that gives two options - One model lengthened to 140 as its max travel, or another model shortened to 140 as its minimum travel. This will be 27.5. Which model would be better?

    I'm no expert but I know when I was looking for a 27.5 fork for my Hawk Hill I settled on the boost 27.5 model. I think the only Mattoc that tops out at 140 would be the 27.5+ model and the geometry wouldn't be the same since it has an increased axle to crown length. So unless you want to run anything greater than a 2.5 or 2.6" tire up front I'd stick with the boost model, plus you get the mudguard.

  182. #4982
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    I'd also say go for the standard 160mm version, this also gives you the possibility of increasing the negative chamber volume.

  183. #4983
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtheo View Post
    Can someone tell me which Mattoc/Magnum model fits 29x2.6 tires?
    Also, I need 140mm travel and 42-44 offset not 51 and it is too confusing to figure out if they even make this and which it is.
    will this work - https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/.../rp-prod193943

    thanks,DT
    The 27+/29" version fits that size. Unofficially I know someone who ran 29x2.8 in them.

    To get your offset there is no off-the-shelf version. But it could be built by using a 27 Boost crown in the 27+ fork.

    Mezzer gives your travel and offset option off the shelf and is actually lighter than the 27+/29" Mattoc.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  184. #4984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    Ah that's good news. Still you're lighter than me and running more rebound. How does the fork feel with the rebound almost open? I wouldn't think of the LSC as being critical to pedalling, it's set and forget for me.

    Here are some other user settings.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...iZA/edit#gid=0


    I have not messed with the rebound yet. So you put it on like 7 or 8 out 10 for damping?

    I know this is not apples to apples but this is what I've learned with the 120mm Machete in the last several months: the best performance is to more or less match the closed/open settings for both rebound and compression. I'm not taking any big jumps so rebound relatively speaking is not a big deal, or at least it doesn't seem that way. Compression is a lot more important than I previously realized. I set the compression first and then rebound follows.

    If it's all-mountain with a lot of loose rocks, roots, etc. and has some steep sections, not too much pedaling, then I'll put the compression completely open and rebound around 2/10.

    If it's between all-mountain and XC with a combination of pedaling and gravity descent but not many larger obstacles, I'll put the compression around 4/8 and rebound around 5/10.

    If it's XC, I'll put the compression at 7/8 (two clicks from closed), and the rebound around 8/10. This helps pedaling a lot.

    Translating that to the Mattoc with two compression settings, some descents are pretty much straight down at a constant angle, some have a few short uphill sections. If it's straight down, then the compression for both speeds can be completely open. If it's mostly down but hardpack up short sections, then 2/4 or 3/4 for slow and open for fast. If instead there are a lot of loose rocks up the short sections but more hardpacked on the flats or descents, then the reverse, open for slow and 3/6 for fast. XC (if for whatever reason I take this fork on that kind of trail), then probably closed for slow and 3/6 for fast.

  185. #4985
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    As a previous post said, 50-200 miles of break-in and I have 30 miles.

    Settings vary of course. Flat surfaces I turn the slow and fast dials all the way to the right, (relatively closed). I noticed that there is no real lockout, but both dials closed is only about 20mm of travel left on a flat surface and that's good enough as locked out.

    Downhill I turned both dials all the way to the left (open) for the first two rides, then the 3rd ride I had the low speed 1/4 or open but the fast was 3/6 or half-open. So generally all the way open downhill, rebound 5/10, I didn't set the psi but if I push down hard on the handlebars with everything open it travels about 80-100mm, so I don't think it's too firm, right?

    Bottom line: I'm not an AM/DH dude, I'm just doing this for fun to see if I can do some chunkier trails faster or not. If this air spring loosens up and does great, cool. If not, I have an XC bike that does just fine on most trails anyway. A longer fork like this and aluminum frame are more comfy (hardtail, not FS), absorb bumps better, but for now the actual performance is only marginally better than 120mm / carbon frame, if at all. Just my experience so far.
    I think I missed it, but weight and psi are the important bits.

    If you have IRT then put your riding weight (with gear) in the top chamber and half that in the bottom chamber. See how that feels.

    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    Can a home mechanic buy such a high flow piston and instal it? Is a revalve needed?
    I upgraded my expert to a pro so in the future i might be able to upgrade to the high flow piston. Small steps

    One more question; I have a 160 mm mattoc 27.5". Can i get it to 170 mm.
    Reason is that i have it fitted to a bike that was designed around a 170 mm fork. Thing is that the 160 mm mattoc feels much better than the 170 mm Lyrik
    So i want to get the geo back.

    If i had a bigger salary i would buy a mezzer.
    Yes the high flow pistons are installed by competent home mechanics. You need to take the whole damper out (compression comes out the top, then rebound assembly out the bottom) before taking the rebound outer tube off and then the piston out.

    170mm in the non-boost is only for 26" wheels. In 27" mode it has 10mm more tyre clearance.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  186. #4986
    dtheo
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    thanks dougal!
    are there other lowers that will work on the 44 offset crown - eg- magnum 29+ or any of the comp models?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The 27+/29" version fits that size. Unofficially I know someone who ran 29x2.8 in them.

    To get your offset there is no off-the-shelf version. But it could be built by using a 27 Boost crown in the 27+ fork.

    Mezzer gives your travel and offset option off the shelf and is actually lighter than the 27+/29" Mattoc.

  187. #4987
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtheo View Post
    thanks dougal!
    are there other lowers that will work on the 44 offset crown - eg- magnum 29+ or any of the comp models?
    Lowers are the same for Pro and Comp models and Magnum/Mattoc. The 29+ lowers won't help you.

    I'd say get a 29" Mezzer with 44mm offset and call it done. It's a lighter fork than the 27+/29" Mattoc.

    I've got them (with the new lowers too) but we're on lockdown right now with Wuhan Flu and it's unknown when we'll be able to ship.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  188. #4988
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    Quote Originally Posted by col.tello View Post
    I have to admit I got my Mattoc Comp from a reputable german online shop, and still loose bushings(by a lot) plus, knocking noise. I don't know what's going on with QC.
    It seems Manitou CS will not support me, but I will have to deal with the seller.
    Dougal,
    can you please tell me which cSt values you recorded for Motorex 5w40 and RS 0w30 @20 and @30 įC while drawing the awesome chart below?

    Manitou Mattoc-2019_shockcraft_bath_oil_graph_web.png

    I'm trying to compensate for bushing slop by using a thicker oil, and I have only RS 0w30, and some 5w30/5w40 on hand right now. RS 0w30 seems quite "slippery" but for sure not thick; don't know it's behaviour at temps between 15-30 įC which I will be riding in.

    Thanks!

  189. #4989
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    Hey guys I just did a full service on my mattoc 26 and a travel change from 160 to 170 mm.

    It makes a knocking sound when quickly compressing the fork from full extension.It makes the knocking sound with rebound fully closed and rebound two clicks from fully closed. With the rebound three clicks from fully closed or full open there's no knock sound. Knocking sound is independent of compression settings.

    Any idea what might be the issue?
    I put in oil height of 77 mm and 10 cc of semi bath oil.




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  190. #4990
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    Hey guys I just did a full service on my mattoc 26 and a travel change from 160 to 170 mm.

    It makes a knocking sound when quickly compressing the fork from full extension.It makes the knocking sound with rebound fully closed and rebound two clicks from fully closed. With the rebound three clicks from fully closed or full open there's no knock sound. Knocking sound is independent of compression settings.

    Any idea what might be the issue?
    I put in oil height of 77 mm and 10 cc of semi bath oil.




    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    Pro or expert?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  191. #4991
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    Hi dougal,

    It is a mattoc pro with added IRT. I replaced the air piston quad ring seal and put in new low friction wiper seals. When slowly applying compression from full extension it knocks as well. If I compress the fork about 20 mm hold it there and then apply a quick compression to compress it another 20 mm it knocks as well.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  192. #4992
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    Quote Originally Posted by col.tello View Post
    Dougal,
    can you please tell me which cSt values you recorded for Motorex 5w40 and RS 0w30 @20 and @30 įC while drawing the awesome chart below?



    I'm trying to compensate for bushing slop by using a thicker oil, and I have only RS 0w30, and some 5w30/5w40 on hand right now. RS 0w30 seems quite "slippery" but for sure not thick; don't know it's behaviour at temps between 15-30 įC which I will be riding in.

    Thanks!
    @Dougal, do you have any numbers on hand?
    Thanks

  193. #4993
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    Looks like a need a bit of help diagnosing what's going on here:

    My 2015 Mattoc Pro intermittently seems to become severely over damped, as if LSC, HSC and R are all set to their maximum. This is irrespective of air temp, mud, dust etc. Seems like the only correlation is the more I ride, the worse it gets. Leave the bike in the garage for a while and it gets better. I refreshed the bath oil last week and 5 rides in the over damped feeling is already returning. I've now pulled everything apart (yea, too many variables) and can't really see what's wrong.

    I have been using Fox Gold (90 CSt?) bath oil for years. Refreshing it returns fork performance to normal for a short while, but: an oil change requires all kinds of other work, such as unthreading the damper and air spring from the lowers. No idea of those actions are having an effect.

    When the fork was new it suffered RS Pike-like buildup of air in the stanchions but I haven't had this issue for years. I did recently replace dust wipers and oil seals, but I can't detect air buildup currently.

    Given that I changed the seals, I thought I might have accidentally placed the oil seals upside-down, but if that was the case the fork should leak oil constantly (it doesn't).

    Last night I left the bike upside-down with my shock pump attached, thinking maybe there's too much oil in the +ve air chamber and this has leaked to the -ve chamber. Fork performance was almost normal this morning, so I removed the air side topcap: hardly any oil in there, certainly < 3 mL.

    In the end I refreshed the damper oil as well, using 25 CSt Motorex (all I had lying around). The old oil was looking quite nasty, discoloured and full of air. Performance is now excellent again.

    So given all these changes I have no idea what the problem is (or was). The only thing I can think of is I goofed on the oil seal replacement, or my damper oil was just really, really old.

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
    Eric

  194. #4994
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    Hi dougal,

    It is a mattoc pro with added IRT. I replaced the air piston quad ring seal and put in new low friction wiper seals. When slowly applying compression from full extension it knocks as well. If I compress the fork about 20 mm hold it there and then apply a quick compression to compress it another 20 mm it knocks as well.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    Sounds like something is loose. Check everything in the damper side.

    Quote Originally Posted by col.tello View Post
    @Dougal, do you have any numbers on hand?
    Thanks
    RS 0W30 @ 20C is 97 cSt.
    Max Powersynt 5W40 @ 20C is 250 cSt.

    Quote Originally Posted by eric View Post
    Looks like a need a bit of help diagnosing what's going on here:

    My 2015 Mattoc Pro intermittently seems to become severely over damped, as if LSC, HSC and R are all set to their maximum. This is irrespective of air temp, mud, dust etc. Seems like the only correlation is the more I ride, the worse it gets. Leave the bike in the garage for a while and it gets better. I refreshed the bath oil last week and 5 rides in the over damped feeling is already returning. I've now pulled everything apart (yea, too many variables) and can't really see what's wrong.

    I have been using Fox Gold (90 CSt?) bath oil for years. Refreshing it returns fork performance to normal for a short while, but: an oil change requires all kinds of other work, such as unthreading the damper and air spring from the lowers. No idea of those actions are having an effect.

    When the fork was new it suffered RS Pike-like buildup of air in the stanchions but I haven't had this issue for years. I did recently replace dust wipers and oil seals, but I can't detect air buildup currently.

    Given that I changed the seals, I thought I might have accidentally placed the oil seals upside-down, but if that was the case the fork should leak oil constantly (it doesn't).

    Last night I left the bike upside-down with my shock pump attached, thinking maybe there's too much oil in the +ve air chamber and this has leaked to the -ve chamber. Fork performance was almost normal this morning, so I removed the air side topcap: hardly any oil in there, certainly < 3 mL.

    In the end I refreshed the damper oil as well, using 25 CSt Motorex (all I had lying around). The old oil was looking quite nasty, discoloured and full of air. Performance is now excellent again.

    So given all these changes I have no idea what the problem is (or was). The only thing I can think of is I goofed on the oil seal replacement, or my damper oil was just really, really old.

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
    Eric
    Foamed up damper oil would do it. Upgrading the damper end-cap seal from a 10x15x4 wiper to a 10x3 o-ring helps slow that happening. Fitting my high flow piston fixes it totally.

    Also worth draining and lubing air spring during lower leg service. I also upgrade the air-side lower seal to 10x3 as above. Only use grease in the air-spring. No oil.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  195. #4995
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Sounds like something is loose. Check everything in the damper side.



    RS 0W30 @ 20C is 97 cSt.
    Max Powersynt 5W40 @ 20C is 250 cSt.



    Foamed up damper oil would do it. Upgrading the damper end-cap seal from a 10x15x4 wiper to a 10x3 o-ring helps slow that happening. Fitting my high flow piston fixes it totally.

    Also worth draining and lubing air spring during lower leg service. I also upgrade the air-side lower seal to 10x3 as above. Only use grease in the air-spring. No oil.
    Thanks very much for the response and for the tuning tips. I was actually looking at your high-flow piston a while ago, but need to find a way from the courier turning turning into a $250,- package once S&H, VAT and EU duties are added on.

  196. #4996
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    I took out the compression assembly, and the only thing that is loose is the washer next to the foam compensator. Is that normal?

    also in my photo I have a picture of the original compression assembly up top and a compression assembly that was sent by Manitou when I had a leaking compression dial. I never installed a replacement assembly. I noticed it's slightly different where I have the white zip tie pointing. Does this retaining clip need to be removed?

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    Last edited by mobilenemo; 04-12-2020 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Added photo

  197. #4997
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    I took out the compression assembly, and the only thing that is loose is the washer next to the foam compensator. Is that normal?

    also in my photo I have a picture of the original compression assembly up top and a compression assembly that was sent by Manitou when I had a leaking compression dial. I never installed a replacement assembly. I noticed it's slightly different where I have the white zip tie pointing. Does this retaining clip need to be removed?

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    I wouldn't expect it to be in the compression assembly, check the rebound for anything out of place.

    That was an update to the manufacturing of the compression assembly. They both work the same. Don't take them apart, they're very complex.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  198. #4998
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    Took out rebound assembly and did not find anything loose. I do notice play with the rebound rod completely extended and pressing against the rod as shown in the photos The gap between rod and seal is much smaller when I push the rod one way versus the other way. Could this play cause the knocking

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  199. #4999
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    Took out rebound assembly and did not find anything loose. I do notice play with the rebound rod completely extended and pressing against the rod as shown in the photos The gap between rod and seal is much smaller when I push the rod one way versus the other way. Could this play cause the knocking

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
    That won't cause any knocking. Take the outer tube off the rebound (it unscrews) and see how the piston and shims look.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  200. #5000
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric View Post
    Thanks very much for the response and for the tuning tips. I was actually looking at your high-flow piston a while ago, but need to find a way from the courier turning turning into a $250,- package once S&H, VAT and EU duties are added on.
    We've just livened up international currencies to make everything clearer. For export it's 60 euro: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou...h-flow-pistons

    Currency tab is top right. Choosing between international and NZ toggles NZ tax on/off and enables all the other currencies. It's a bit clunky on mobile at the moment.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

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