Manitou Mattoc

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  • 05-24-2019
    davideb87
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    I got lucky with my Pro 2 from CRC, but I was also eyeballing that Mattoc Pro Plus. Didn't know about the colors but looked on Manitou's site, and no 44mm offset 27.5+/29 fork. Only 48mm offset. So yeah they're gonna screw you.

    Ripley v4 is a 44mm offset design. Will a 48mm offset fork make that much of a difference? I'd rather stick with Mattoc vs Pike/Fox.

    I can't feel differences between a pike 51 mm and a 46 mm.
    I can feel differences between a good and a bad fork.
  • 05-25-2019
    lachman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post


    Ok then, I guess I'm going to have to comb the garage looking for it.

    Spaceballs!
  • 05-25-2019
    lachman
    So I took a punt on a wiggle Mattoc pro for my Ragley mmmbop hardtail build. After the first couple of hundred meters of riding i was so stoked with how it performed compared to my MRP Ribbon coil on my Jekyll. It quickly developed a knock on my first ride and oil coming past the wiper seal on the damper side. I was aware issues with forks from wiggle/CRC and being in NZ I knew Dougal should be able to sort things out if they went bad.

    Has anyone had success with not sending the forks back to wiggle/crc and sending straight to a local agent a.k.a shockcraft?

    Why do Manitou continue to let these forks get sold with a known problem? I knew what I was getting into and I don't mind going through the faff to sought it out but for a casual consumer this would turn people off the brand I would have thought?
  • 05-25-2019
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lachman View Post
    So I took a punt on a wiggle Mattoc pro for my Ragley mmmbop hardtail build. After the first couple of hundred meters of riding i was so stoked with how it performed compared to my MRP Ribbon coil on my Jekyll. It quickly developed a knock on my first ride and oil coming past the wiper seal on the damper side. I was aware issues with forks from wiggle/CRC and being in NZ I knew Dougal should be able to sort things out if they went bad.

    Has anyone had success with not sending the forks back to wiggle/crc and sending straight to a local agent a.k.a shockcraft?

    Why do Manitou continue to let these forks get sold with a known problem? I knew what I was getting into and I don't mind going through the faff to sought it out but for a casual consumer this would turn people off the brand I would have thought?


    I almost wonder if some of these places know they have bad forks. For example, Wiggle has a 120mmm 27.5" Manitou Mattoc Pro BOOST for $192. But the Mattoc 100mm forks are $100 more.
  • 05-25-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    I almost wonder if some of these places know they have bad forks. For example, Wiggle has a 120mmm 27.5" Manitou Mattoc Pro BOOST for $192. But the Mattoc 100mm forks are $100 more.

    The forks you mention are a COMP and not actually a PRO model. Wiggle should be well aware of the incorrect information, however the listing keeps showing back up listing the fork as a PRO when it is unquestionably a COMP model.
  • 05-25-2019
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    The forks you mention are a COMP and not actually a PRO model. Wiggle should be well aware of the incorrect information, however the listing keeps showing back up listing the fork as a PRO when it is unquestionably a COMP model.

    Ah, that makes sense. I also noticed that the fork for $192 is listed as only a 120 fork but the one for 292 is listed at a 140 fork (but sold at 100mm).
  • 05-25-2019
    tdaniel93
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    The forks you mention are a COMP and not actually a PRO model. Wiggle should be well aware of the incorrect information, however the listing keeps showing back up listing the fork as a PRO when it is unquestionably a COMP model.

    When I bought my 27.5+ fork and they sent me the wrong one they sent me that same comp model. Except they had it listed as a $520 Pro.
  • 05-26-2019
    ashwinearl
    Can anyone take a picture of the shims in order of assembly for the rebound damper? I am specifically looking for the order of shims above and below the blue valve. The two that are just on either side of the blue valve are not the same size.

    One is larger OD which is big enough to cover the feed thru holes on the valve. The other shim is slightly smaller.

    I am assuming that the larger shim goes directly on top of the blue valve. I didn't pay attention or take pictures when taking it apart and am not sure it is going back in the correct order.
  • 05-26-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    Can anyone take a picture of the shims in order of assembly for the rebound damper? I am specifically looking for the order of shims above and below the blue valve. The two that are just on either side of the blue valve are not the same size.

    One is larger OD which is big enough to cover the feed thru holes on the valve. The other shim is slightly smaller.

    I am assuming that the larger shim goes directly on top of the blue valve. I didn't pay attention or take pictures when taking it apart and am not sure it is going back in the correct order.

    I don't have pics, but rebound has two shims the same size on the piston, then a clamp, then the HBO cone. They are all 6mm ID.

    Check shim underneath has a bigger ID (8mm) to fit over the stepped mount.
  • 05-26-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lachman View Post
    So I took a punt on a wiggle Mattoc pro for my Ragley mmmbop hardtail build. After the first couple of hundred meters of riding i was so stoked with how it performed compared to my MRP Ribbon coil on my Jekyll. It quickly developed a knock on my first ride and oil coming past the wiper seal on the damper side. I was aware issues with forks from wiggle/CRC and being in NZ I knew Dougal should be able to sort things out if they went bad.

    Has anyone had success with not sending the forks back to wiggle/crc and sending straight to a local agent a.k.a shockcraft?

    Why do Manitou continue to let these forks get sold with a known problem? I knew what I was getting into and I don't mind going through the faff to sought it out but for a casual consumer this would turn people off the brand I would have thought?

    Yes we handle local warranty for the overseas box shippers. Our hard work and knowledge helps them avoid responsibility and improves their margins.

    I have no idea what is going on with your fork and won't until we get it apart. Doesn't sound like any known problem.
  • 05-26-2019
    jbrowning89
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Take the lower legs off, grease the top bushings and seals with slickoleum. That'll keep it sliding smoothly until the oil works it's way up during riding.

    I got the legs off and put a bunch of slickoleum on the bushings and seals. It's definitely better, but still not smooth. If I lean my weight over the fork it now compresses the first 10mm or so with less force than it needed before, but it then compresses in a stop-start-stop-start fashion.
  • 05-26-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jbrowning89 View Post
    I got the legs off and put a bunch of slickoleum on the bushings and seals. It's definitely better, but still not smooth. If I lean my weight over the fork it now compresses the first 10mm or so with less force than it needed before, but it then compresses in a stop-start-stop-start fashion.

    You may have tight bushings.

    But just to check. If you've got the wheel out of the fork, is the axle undone? Tightening up the axle with no wheel will pull the legs in and make them bind.
  • 05-26-2019
    jbrowning89
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    You may have tight bushings.

    But just to check. If you've got the wheel out of the fork, is the axle undone? Tightening up the axle with no wheel will pull the legs in and make them bind.

    I'm getting that shuddering movement with the wheel on and the axle appropriately torqued. Should remove the wheel and flip the bike over try compressing without the axle tightened?
  • 05-26-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jbrowning89 View Post
    I'm getting that shuddering movement with the wheel on and the axle appropriately torqued. Should remove the wheel and flip the bike over try compressing without the axle tightened?

    If the wheel sits in without flexing the legs in or out then that can be ignored.

    I have come across people trying to put boost wheels into non-boost forks before! :eekster:
  • 05-26-2019
    jbrowning89
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    If the wheel sits in without flexing the legs in or out then that can be ignored.

    I have come across people trying to put boost wheels into non-boost forks before! :eekster:

    Oh gee! Yeah, boost fork, boost wheels, they slide right in.
  • 05-27-2019
    ashwinearl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I don't have pics, but rebound has two shims the same size on the piston, then a clamp, then the HBO cone. They are all 6mm ID.

    Check shim underneath has a bigger ID (8mm) to fit over the stepped mount.

    Below is how I currently have it ordered (the second from the bottom are two spring shims stuck together). Mine had two clamp shims on top? The problem I am having is that pogo'ing feeling where the rebound feels faster than it should. Based on past threads, this is an indication that the assembly isn't put back together correctly. This is the new high-flow piston with split PTFE ring because I mangled it initially.

    It was feeling ok one day then started feeling bouncy the next. So am wondering if something came loose.

    Is there guidance on the torque to use in tightening the HBO cone?

  • 05-27-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    Below is how I currently have it ordered (the second from the bottom is the spring shim). The problem I am having is that pogo'ing feeling where the rebound feels faster than it should. Based on past threads, this is an indication that the assembly isn't put back together correctly. This is the new high-flow piston with split PTFE ring because I mangled it initially.

    Is there guidance on the torque to use in tightening the HBO cone?


    That looks right. Check the spring shims have enough bend in them to keep the check shim against the piston. If it doesn't then bend them some more.

    You will have a small amount more flow around with the split piston band. But it should be minor.
  • 05-27-2019
    piciu256
    Actually, it doesn't look properly, shim stack is good I believe, 2 rebound shims and 2 check plate shims backed by 2 spring shims with a backing plate. The piston is upside down though, which gives more leverage to open the shim stack which gives less damping.
  • 05-28-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    Actually, it doesn't look properly, shim stack is good I believe, 2 rebound shims and 2 check plate shims backed by 2 spring shims with a backing plate. The piston is upside down though, which gives more leverage to open the shim stack which gives less damping.

    The piston is up the right way and there is one check shim and one support shim for the spring shims to rest on.
  • 05-28-2019
    piciu256
    Doesn't look like it, the larger ports are installed to work on the rebound shim stack, not let oil through on the compression stroke, like it should have been.
  • 05-28-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    Doesn't look like it, the larger ports are installed to work on the rebound shim stack, not let oil through on the compression stroke, like it should have been.

    Which way do you think is up? That's the HBO cone at the top of the picture. Not the shaft.
    Orientation is correct as shown.
  • 05-28-2019
    piciu256
    Oh, I thought that's the shaft. My bad. Then the only reasonable explanation to the problem is that the assembly made itself a bit undone, threadlocker is advised to avoid such problems, there was someone whose compression assembly got undone and destroyed the damper internals.
  • 05-28-2019
    jbrowning89
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    If the wheel sits in without flexing the legs in or out then that can be ignored.

    I have come across people trying to put boost wheels into non-boost forks before! :eekster:

    Anything else I should try before sending it in for service again?
  • 05-28-2019
    piciu256
    For me your issue sounds more like an air spring problem, you can confirm by disassembling the fork and checking for stiction one leg at a time, if one side is a lot harder to move than the other- you have a tight bushings issue, they might also both be very tight, either way moving the bushings without the air spring should tell you what is the problem.
  • 05-28-2019
    ashwinearl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That looks right. Check the spring shims have enough bend in them to keep the check shim against the piston. If it doesn't then bend them some more.

    You will have a small amount more flow around with the split piston band. But it should be minor.

    So I bent the spring shims some more. Now I am thinking that I didn't need to or at least not as much as I did. After I put it back together, I can definitely feel a change in compression but not much change in the rebound.

    There is more compression damping, which seems to make sense. If the spring shims are applying more force to the check shim, won't it take more force to push the check shim down under compression?

    I haven't ridden it offroad yet, and will go through resetting air pressure maybe go down in air.
  • 05-30-2019
    ashwinearl
    I made a shareable Google Sheets with my Mattoc settings. I am always looking through this thread for other riders who are close to my weight/location/ride style to see what their settings are.

    My hope is that others will enter their settings so there will be a growing database that can help riders find a starting point or try something new. I've tried to add as columns for as parameters that are important to know, such as weight, ride style, travel, hop ups like high flow valve, new seals, semi-bath, damper oil...

    Feel free to modify it or add more parameters.

    Manitou Mattoc Settings Database
  • 05-30-2019
    piciu256
    I added my settings/ thoughts, I think you run quite a bit of rebound damping, that might cause it to pack down a bit and thus feel a bit harsher than it needs to be, mine is set up so it works well in all conditions.
    ps. you may edit the sheet to make it more... tidy, I cannot format the thing on my phone.
  • 06-01-2019
    kartracer
    Have any of you owned/ridden both a Mattoc Pro with IRT and a DVO Diamond or Sapphire? I have a DVO Sapphire on my current bike (that I'll be selling) and am deciding between another Sapphire 34 or a Mattoc Pro for my new bike.

    Specifically I'm really interested in how the Mattoc with IRT compares in small bump sensitivity/suppleness. The thing I really like most about the DVO is the OTT (adjustable coil negative spring). The initial suppleness and small bump sensitivity is so darn good. But the HSC is too firm for my riding style and the trails/terrain that I ride. Everything I've read about the Mattoc (including this entire thread) has me wanting to try one but only if small bump sensitivity/suppleness can compare with the DVO OTT.

    Thanks for any input and comparisons you can provide.
  • 06-01-2019
    piciu256
    I haven't ridden a mattoc with IRT, I have one with IVA, and the DVO Saphire just plain sucks in comparison, in terms of small bump compliance. The air spring design is just bad, it's coil negative but only one option of stiffness, that's probably the main reason, it works a worse than my Mattoc did with stock high friction seals with no service, with low friction seals there is no comparison at all. The damper is nice though, same feeling of control in the gnar as with mattoc, just no HBO.
  • 06-01-2019
    One Pivot
    Damn! My small bump has suddenly got worse. It feels like my negative spring went wonky or something. I have a non boost gold stanchioned expert. On choppy washboards its significantly worse than it was when I got it. Big hit stuff is still excellent, but I want it working like it was.

    Theres an updated piston to take grease, right? Mine definitely had oil. Is there any other part update or seal update I need to be aware of?
  • 06-01-2019
    davideb87
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kartracer View Post
    Have any of you owned/ridden both a Mattoc Pro with IRT and a DVO Diamond or Sapphire? I have a DVO Sapphire on my current bike (that I'll be selling) and am deciding between another Sapphire 34 or a Mattoc Pro for my new bike.

    Specifically I'm really interested in how the Mattoc with IRT compares in small bump sensitivity/suppleness. The thing I really like most about the DVO is the OTT (adjustable coil negative spring). The initial suppleness and small bump sensitivity is so darn good. But the HSC is too firm for my riding style and the trails/terrain that I ride. Everything I've read about the Mattoc (including this entire thread) has me wanting to try one but only if small bump sensitivity/suppleness can compare with the DVO OTT.

    Thanks for any input and comparisons you can provide.

    I have a mattoc pro with IRT and a DVO diamond Boost, the mattoc is a better fork in almost every aspect.
    The diamond has a really nice damper, but the air spring is very linear and can't be tuned, you can just add oil.

    I had luck with formula neopos on the diamond, now is working very good. I have also softened the compression shim stack.
    I still find the mattoc a better fork, but i love the diamond as well.
  • 06-02-2019
    ashwinearl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Damn! My small bump has suddenly got worse. It feels like my negative spring went wonky or something. I have a non boost gold stanchioned expert. On choppy washboards its significantly worse than it was when I got it. Big hit stuff is still excellent, but I want it working like it was.

    Theres an updated piston to take grease, right? Mine definitely had oil. Is there any other part update or seal update I need to be aware of?

    Look up the part number on your seals. The new upgraded low friction seals are part #
    RXWT000255

    Older seals had part number IVXWT000022

    Supergliss semi bath oil is nice too.
  • 06-02-2019
    kartracer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I have a mattoc pro with IRT and a DVO diamond Boost, the mattoc is a better fork in almost every aspect.
    The diamond has a really nice damper, but the air spring is very linear and can't be tuned, you can just add oil.
    I had luck with formula neopos on the diamond, now is working very good. I have also softened the compression shim stack.
    I still find the mattoc a better fork, but i love the diamond as well.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    I haven't ridden a mattoc with IRT, I have one with IVA, and the DVO Saphire just plain sucks in comparison, in terms of small bump compliance. The air spring design is just bad, it's coil negative but only one option of stiffness, that's probably the main reason, it works a worse than my Mattoc did with stock high friction seals with no service, with low friction seals there is no comparison at all. The damper is nice though, same feeling of control in the gnar as with mattoc, just no HBO.

    Thanks guys. It's looking like a Mattoc Pro for the new bike.
  • 06-03-2019
    CS645
    Well I've had the first proper prolonged rough decents on my Mattoc converted from expert to pro with high flow piston (I still have to look into the reduced rebound damping, had no time to get it completly open up again). For fairness I have to add that my front tyre simultaneously switched from a Hellcat ATC to a Hellcat AEC (increasing unsprung weight and damping on the tyre).

    What I can say is that the difference is night and day. A large part will definitely be the tyre, but the way rocks, roots and brake bumps now get irrelevant, compared to previously shaking me violently all the way down, let's me focus on the lines in stead of tip toeing across obstacle and adds a lot to the flow.

    Will look into the too fast rebound, but with enough weight on the bars it wasn't a big issues.
  • 06-03-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    Well I've had the first proper prolonged rough decents on my Mattoc converted from expert to pro with high flow piston (I still have to look into the reduced rebound damping, had no time to get it completly open up again). For fairness I have to add that my front tyre simultaneously switched from a Hellcat ATC to a Hellcat AEC (increasing unsprung weight and damping on the tyre).

    What I can say is that the difference is night and day. A large part will definitely be the tyre, but the way rocks, roots and brake bumps now get irrelevant, compared to previously shaking me violently all the way down, let's me focus on the lines in stead of tip toeing across obstacle and adds a lot to the flow.

    Will look into the too fast rebound, but with enough weight on the bars it wasn't a big issues.

    Amazing isn't it!
  • 06-03-2019
    ashwinearl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    Will look into the too fast rebound, but with enough weight on the bars it wasn't a big issues.

    You are the third person, including me, to mention change in rebound after putting in the new piston. I took mine apart again and 'think' I have it back. In the garage, the rebound feels more normal.

    I think putting that rebound assembly together carefully ensuring that the there is no grit on the check shims and that everything is square is important.

    Let us know what you find out on your rebound.

    I agree, the concept of the high flow valve is great. For me the important benefit is the ability to run high compression for all the grinding pedaling I do and still have some small bump performance on the many roots.
  • 06-03-2019
    CS645
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Amazing isn't it!

    Yup, very much worth it. Thanks for giving us the option! :)

    Small pump sensitivity also feels more balanced now with the McLeod on the back.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    You are the third person, including me, to mention change in rebound after putting in the new piston. I took mine apart again and 'think' I have it back. In the garage, the rebound feels more normal.

    I think putting that rebound assembly together carefully ensuring that the there is no grit on the check shims and that everything is square is important.

    Let us know what you find out on your rebound.

    I agree, the concept of the high flow valve is great. For me the important benefit is the ability to run high compression for all the grinding pedaling I do and still have some small bump performance on the many roots.

    Well I posted about it earlier, just hadn't much time to look into it. Agree on being able to close compression damping.

    I did convert my wife's pro to the high flow piston weeks before and that doesn't have an issue. What I can say is that my wife's Mattoc does make oil flow sounds on rebound, while mine doesn't make any sound at all on rebound. So yeah have to open it up sooner or later. I'll give an update once done.

    The improvement in performance is so great though, that even with the rebound issue, it's totally worth it. Can't wait to see how it feels when I reassemble it and get the rebound in order. The ability to carry so much more speed through the rough stuff is quite addictive!
  • 06-03-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    You are the third person, including me, to mention change in rebound after putting in the new piston. I took mine apart again and 'think' I have it back. In the garage, the rebound feels more normal.

    I think putting that rebound assembly together carefully ensuring that the there is no grit on the check shims and that everything is square is important.

    Let us know what you find out on your rebound.

    I agree, the concept of the high flow valve is great. For me the important benefit is the ability to run high compression for all the grinding pedaling I do and still have some small bump performance on the many roots.

    I'd love to find out what is going wrong on reassembly so we can get some instructions to avoid it.

    Haven't had any rebound issues with the ones we've done in house. I've lost count how many as they're done exchange so no obvious stock reduction.
  • 06-06-2019
    BikesandWind
    Wiggle Mattoc
    Hi all, been reading this forum for some time. Never posted. Used to have a Mattoc on my old bike and been missing it. So couldn't resist a Wiggle bargain when I saw one to upgrade my hardtail. Read plenty of warnings about CRC/Wiggle Mattocs, but at $285 it was worth the risk. So the fork arrived today and I'm not really sure what the model is. Its definitely 27.5 (not + as per the ad) and boost. Otherwise its exactly as per the image. So what model have I ended up with, because its not a "pro" as stated in the questions. Also anyone know if it can be upped to 140mm?

    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/manitou-mattoc-forks-boost/

    Forgot to add, it came with the mudguard, so I assume is newer model

    Cheers
  • 06-06-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BikesandWind View Post
    So what model have I ended up with, because its not a "pro" as stated in the questions. Also anyone know if it can be upped to 140mm?

    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/manitou-mattoc-forks-boost/

    Cheers

    Its a 27.5 boost Magnum Comp. Yes, it can easily go to 140 by removing spacers. I believe it will go to 170 if you need it and check clearances.
  • 06-06-2019
    BikesandWind
    Thanks. Doesn't seem like a plus fork but guessing you know your stuff. Any idea what the actual specs/adjusters are?
    Is it the same as a Mattoc comp?
    Whats any ones thoughts on this versus an older (2017 i think) minute pro fork.
  • 06-06-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BikesandWind View Post
    Thanks. Doesn't seem like a plus fork but guessing you know your stuff. Any idea what the actual specs/adjusters are?
    Is it the same as a Mattoc comp?
    Whats any ones thoughts on this versus an older (2017 i think) minute pro fork.

    Its not a plus fork, but it is 110 boost spacing. That said, I am currently running a 2.8 nobby nic on i45 rims, but it just barely makes it.

    As for the specs, I believe its identical to the current model magnum comp boost listed on manitous website. ABS+ damper and non-adjustable HBO if I recall. Seems a solid fork for the money. The biggest things you give up vs the pro is the weigh savings, IRT and HSC. But for the most part, they ride similarly from what most people say. I have a magnum pro and a mattoc comp, but theyre set up very differently on very different bikes, so its hard for me to say how they compare. I havent ridden a minute pro, so I couldnt say one way or another about that either.
  • 06-06-2019
    twodogsfighting
    Wiggle and CRC are really taking the piss with these product descriptions though. This is some pretty blatant false advertising.
  • 06-06-2019
    kendunn
    Even one of the staff answered a question about was it a pro or not, they confirmed it was even though the only review said it most certainly wasn't, nor was it boost. I wish it was a 29 and the Pro, cheaper than servicing and my Auron is probably due.
  • 06-06-2019
    davideb87
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    You are the third person, including me, to mention change in rebound after putting in the new piston. I took mine apart again and 'think' I have it back. In the garage, the rebound feels more normal.

    I think putting that rebound assembly together carefully ensuring that the there is no grit on the check shims and that everything is square is important.

    Let us know what you find out on your rebound.

    I agree, the concept of the high flow valve is great. For me the important benefit is the ability to run high compression for all the grinding pedaling I do and still have some small bump performance on the many roots.

    I have faster rebound as well, with the high flow piston.
    I checked the installation twice because Dougal said it should not affect rebound Speed, i did find a small debris but it wasn't the cause because the rebound is the same.
    I used it for three months withouth problems, just added 3 click of rebound and it's good.
  • 06-06-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kendunn View Post
    Even one of the staff answered a question about was it a pro or not, they confirmed it was even though the only review said it most certainly wasn't, nor was it boost. I wish it was a 29 and the Pro, cheaper than servicing and my Auron is probably due.

    It's definitely boost. It is not plus. Boost and plus are not the same thing, though commonly confused. All plus is boost spacing, but not all boost forks will fit a plus tire.
  • 06-06-2019
    kendunn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    It's definitely boost. It is not plus. Boost and plus are not the same thing, though commonly confused. All plus is boost spacing, but not all boost forks will fit a plus tire.

    Yeah, sorry, I meant to say plus, one of the staff did respond to someones question a month ago saying "We can confirm these are 27.5+ forks". Clear as mud, huh? I got into the same thing with them on a crank, confirmed it was one thing, the description said it was that, it wasn't even close.
  • 06-06-2019
    s0ul_chicken
    My new Mattoc Pro rebound is just spinning so I removed the lowers and the rebound shaft to see what was going on. The head of the rebound shaft head came off along with all of the shim stack washers. I have no idea on the order to put it back together correctly, so I could use some help from someone that has has a similar experience or has taken the shim stack apart to modify the tune. Washers are listed ODxIDxTH, thanks for any help in advance. Should I call Hayes?

    12.0mm x 8.0mm x .15mm wavy washers, there are two of these
    12.0mm x 6.0mm x 1.0mm
    13.0mm x 8.0mm x .20mm
    11.0mm x 8.0mm x .50mm
    9.0mm x 6.0mm x .25mm
    13.0mm x 6.0mm x .10mm there are two of these

    EDIT - last minute, but which side is up on the blue piston? Is it the two port or four port facing up?
  • 06-06-2019
    One Pivot
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    Look up the part number on your seals. The new upgraded low friction seals are part #
    RXWT000255

    Older seals had part number IVXWT000022

    Supergliss semi bath oil is nice too.

    Thanks, I got those coming in the mail... but there isnt an updated air piston seal or something like that? Maybe im mixing up models, but I could have sworn I read something.
  • 06-06-2019
    lachman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by BikesandWind View Post
    Hi all, been reading this forum for some time. Never posted. Used to have a Mattoc on my old bike and been missing it. So couldn't resist a Wiggle bargain when I saw one to upgrade my hardtail. Read plenty of warnings about CRC/Wiggle Mattocs, but at $285 it was worth the risk. So the fork arrived today and I'm not really sure what the model is. Its definitely 27.5 (not + as per the ad) and boost. Otherwise its exactly as per the image. So what model have I ended up with, because its not a "pro" as stated in the questions. Also anyone know if it can be upped to 140mm?

    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/manitou-mattoc-forks-boost/

    Forgot to add, it came with the mudguard, so I assume is newer model

    Cheers

    What's written on the damper adjuster, mc2/abs? What's on the air spring top cap?
  • 06-07-2019
    s0ul_chicken
    Update into the tear-down, my 27.5 Mattoc Pro 160mm was actually set 150mm, and the rebound assembly had the 26" assembly, not the 27.5". QC seems to be lacking as of late, but glad they included the kit for the correct length head. They also show that there should be a bottom spacer on the damper, which was not installed at the factory either. I think I figured out the order of the shims for the blue piston though, and have the assembly back together. I called Hayes, just waiting on a return call before I put the fork all back together.
  • 06-07-2019
    Aresab
    1 Attachment(s)
    Below is an exploded view of mine when I upgraded a 26 for to 27.5. The blue piston facing up (goes towards the bottom out).
  • 06-07-2019
    PurpleMtnSlayer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by s0ul_chicken View Post
    QC seems to be lacking as of late

    Old habits die hard?
  • 06-08-2019
    s0ul_chicken
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Aresab View Post
    Below is an exploded view of mine when I upgraded a 26 for to 27.5. The blue piston facing up (goes towards the bottom out).

    Thank you! Eric from Hayes called me back yesterday, said he would get with engineering and send me an exploded view of the rebound assembly - hurry up and wait... By the looks of your picture, I have the order correct, so it looks like I will be taking a ride sometime this morning to test it out. Thanks again!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Old habits die hard?

    My third Manitou, and the only one that has been giving me any kind of trouble.
  • 06-08-2019
    Aresab
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by s0ul_chicken View Post
    Thank you! Eric from Hayes called me back yesterday, said he would get with engineering and send me an exploded view of the rebound assembly - hurry up and wait... By the looks of your picture, I have the order correct, so it looks like I will be taking a ride sometime this morning to test it out. Thanks again!

    Eric's a good guy but a little slow to respond sometimes, they all seem to be customer focused at Manitou. I was having issues after the conversion 26==>27.5 and I undid it all and did it all again, I think the torque was my biggest issue as all good when not ham fisting it!
  • 06-21-2019
    CS645
    I've opened up my Mattoc and I think I know what I did wrong with the assembly after installing the high flow piston. What I think happened was that the 8mm ID check shim was not on the 8mm shaft but actually on the 6mm shaft, jammed between the 8mm part of the shaft and the piston and thus off center and not working as intended.

    So Dougal if the above is correct, the instructions for installing the high flow piston for retards like me would be to make sure the check shim is actually on the 8mm shaft and not jammed between the piston and the 8mm shaft before tightening up the piston assembly.

    I'll install it properly and confirm if my rebound is back to normal.

    Click on the image for a better quality version.








    EDIT: I've now reassembled the fork and as expected I can confirm the rebound is now working as it should.
  • 06-21-2019
    CS645
    For reference, this is my shim order:

  • 06-21-2019
    Heist30
    Getting tired of harshness of my Rhythm 34 so Iím looking for a used Magnum Pro 120 27+/29. It will need to go to 140, I have the sockets so how can I extend without spending 50+ on the Mattoc tool kit for the spline tool? Also would need an IRT kit but out of stock everywhere online, any leads?
  • 06-22-2019
    Doug
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Heist30 View Post
    Getting tired of harshness of my Rhythm 34 so Iím looking for a used Magnum Pro 120 27+/29. It will need to go to 140, I have the sockets so how can I extend without spending 50+ on the Mattoc tool kit for the spline tool? Also would need an IRT kit but out of stock everywhere online, any leads?

    A park Cassette tool has enough depth to clear on a mattoc Comp/Pro.
  • 06-26-2019
    mmarkey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by s0ul_chicken View Post
    Update into the tear-down, my 27.5 Mattoc Pro 160mm was actually set 150mm, and the rebound assembly had the 26" assembly, not the 27.5". QC seems to be lacking as of late, but glad they included the kit for the correct length head. They also show that there should be a bottom spacer on the damper, which was not installed at the factory either. I think I figured out the order of the shims for the blue piston though, and have the assembly back together. I called Hayes, just waiting on a return call before I put the fork all back together.

    This makes me want to open mine up. Been riding it for about a month but never seem to get full travel. How do you tell between the 26" assembly and 27.5" assembly?
  • 06-26-2019
    Mac1987
    Position of the spacers and length of the HBO cone. Lookup the schematics on Google. The spacers prevents the fork from bottoming and hitting the larger wheel and the longer HBO cone ensures the proper functioning of the HBO mechanism with the reduced stroke I believe.

    Edit: the whole process and differences in configuration are explained on
    YouTube
  • 06-26-2019
    Dougal
    The 26/27" shaft differences were only for the non-boost Mattocs. The Boost versions all use the same configuration as the 26". Which is shorter HBO cone and no bottom spacers.

    I ended up with a used Boost Mattoc which had the longer HBO cone fitted by someone else. Made for quite the bang at full bottom-out!
  • 06-26-2019
    mmarkey
    Mine is a non-boost version so thanks for the heads up. Any thoughts on what might be causing it to not use the full travel? It also lacks a linear feel and seems to kinda kick back on fast bumps rather than making it feel smooth.
  • 06-26-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mmarkey View Post
    Mine is a non-boost version so thanks for the heads up. Any thoughts on what might be causing it to not use the full travel? It also lacks a linear feel and seems to kinda kick back on fast bumps rather than making it feel smooth.

    Is your negative air equalising? Way to test is to hook on a pump and see if you can cycle the fork through full travel.
    If you cannot either the air rod isn't set (or pump isn't playing the game) which means it won't move without forcing against the spring or the damper is overfilled which prevents full travel.
  • 06-27-2019
    bansaiman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Heist30 View Post
    Getting tired of harshness of my Rhythm 34 so Iím looking for a used Magnum Pro 120 27+/29. It will need to go to 140, I have the sockets so how can I extend without spending 50+ on the Mattoc tool kit for the spline tool? Also would need an IRT kit but out of stock everywhere online, any leads?

    Here already comes with irt

    https://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/articl...rt-wie-mattoc2

    You only need a cassette tool with hole in the middle as offered by Shimano and a little, I think 4mm Allen key
  • 06-27-2019
    gillyske
    Hi guys, need a little help. My mattoc pro2 (its the one with IVA installed, came on my Vitus Sommet) has developed an issue where the dampener has stopped working. you can turn the dial for LSC, HSC etc but nothing changes. The only thing that works is rebound. Anyone have any idea what could be going on?
  • 06-28-2019
    mmarkey
    I'm getting a similar issue and have had mine for about a month now. E-mailed Hayes/Manitou but haven't heard back yet. Also, my shock cycles through it's travel no problem with the pump on it but bottoms out with about 2cm of travel remaining. Pretty bummed since I bought the thing brand new. Hoping Hayes is willing to help in some fashion.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gillyske View Post
    Hi guys, need a little help. My mattoc pro2 (its the one with IVA installed, came on my Vitus Sommet) has developed an issue where the dampener has stopped working. you can turn the dial for LSC, HSC etc but nothing changes. The only thing that works is rebound. Anyone have any idea what could be going on?

  • 06-28-2019
    svinyard
    EDIT: Nevermind fix.

    Dumb question here: my kid has the new Manitou J-unit which is just a scaled down machete with ABS+ damper and Expert Spring. I aired the fork down all the way and it sucked down all its travel. Apparently the chambers equalize with the pump on but I did compress it with the pump on and now I can't reset it back to full travel. I'm sure there is some method of doing this but I can't for the life of me find it or figure it out.

    I'll leave this for posterity sake. My shock pump was full functional and worked, BUT the equalization did NOT happen. I simply had to screw on my shock pump even further and then everything snapped into place and worked great.
  • 07-03-2019
    ColinL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mmarkey View Post
    I'm getting a similar issue and have had mine for about a month now. E-mailed Hayes/Manitou but haven't heard back yet. Also, my shock cycles through it's travel no problem with the pump on it but bottoms out with about 2cm of travel remaining. Pretty bummed since I bought the thing brand new. Hoping Hayes is willing to help in some fashion.

    Depends on how handy you are. You may have to send the forks to Hayes or a qualified servicer.

    If you have the tools and interest, I would check the damper oil level. Full service video shown here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e81ZjaRq3XU

    Regarding the fork bottoming out with 2mm still showing on the stanchion, that's expected and normal.
  • 07-18-2019
    thova
    Help please. I am at loose fest XL, it should be great but i only get 106 mm of travel out of my 160mm travel. Bummer. Any help, fix...
    If i put shock pump on, same result. Is a hydtaulic problem i think. Oil level in damper should be ok. Serviced it myself.
  • 07-18-2019
    piciu256
    I'd tripple check if I were you, as it sure hell sounds like too much oil ;)
  • 07-18-2019
    thova
    I will check. I haven't opened the damper side before i noticed this problem. Any way, i'll have to strip the fork. Don't know of i'll be able to fix this. I hate this.
  • 07-18-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thova View Post
    Help please. I am at loose fest XL, it should be great but i only get 106 mm of travel out of my 160mm travel.

    Ive been guilty of forgetting to pull the fork down after changing pressure or doing work to the fork. Hate to bring up the obvious, but you did pull the lowers down to extend the fork, right? What about if you drop the psi down to 0, do you get full range of motion then? If not, then my first guess is too much oil as well.
  • 07-18-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thova View Post
    Help please. I am at loose fest XL, it should be great but i only get 106 mm of travel out of my 160mm travel. Bummer. Any help, fix...
    If i put shock pump on, same result. Is a hydtaulic problem i think. Oil level in damper should be ok. Serviced it myself.

    Pull the lower legs and check if you can push the damper shaft in all the way by hand.

    If you can't then the oil level is too high. Riding with the oil level too high can damage the damper. Too low just makes it slurpy.
  • 07-18-2019
    thova
    Thank you guys. I'll check and pull lowers. Just to be 100% sure, what is oil level for first gen expert matto?
  • 07-18-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thova View Post
    Thank you guys. I'll check and pull lowers. Just to be 100% sure, what is oil level for first gen expert matto?

    80mm for Mattoc Expert. 75mm for Mattoc Pro.
  • 07-19-2019
    thova
    Shame shame shame.
    After pulling damper i removed 3ml of damper oil.
  • 07-19-2019
    piciu256
    On another note- should I be able to use more travel than set? Even ignoring the possibility that I could have set a couple of mm more than 140 with the pipe, or extended the fork too hard, only 7mm effectively from the crown with a 10mm spacer under the bumper doesn't sound right, I get 145mm of travel when bottoming hard, with a metallic sound, which may or may not be HBO cones hitting each other, hard to tell as the spokes make a loud bang too.
    The HBO works well, I turned it off for testing out of curiosity.
    ps. does the order of the parts matter by any chance? I put the travel adjust spacer under the aluminium washer on the air shaft, under the rubber bumper.
  • 07-21-2019
    nikon255
    yesterday I took 1st time in year my enduro bike to bikepark. Mattoc 2 160mm with IRT in front. I just couldnt belive how good it worked. Maybe firsnt inch is not so coily, but then airspring is awsome. I had weird feeling that on parking fork feels soft and rebound is too fast, but on the trail it worked best. 40/100 psi (72kg/159lbs), 1 click in of rebound and none compression. Also 3 clicks in of HBO. No hands fatigue at all. Compliance close to coil. Thats definitly good shit :D Also this time as bath oil was used thin silkolene rsf 10. Worked better than supergliss, cuz supergliss slows down fork movements creating additional harshness.
  • 07-21-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    On another note- should I be able to use more travel than set? Even ignoring the possibility that I could have set a couple of mm more than 140 with the pipe, or extended the fork too hard, only 7mm effectively from the crown with a 10mm spacer under the bumper doesn't sound right, I get 145mm of travel when bottoming hard, with a metallic sound, which may or may not be HBO cones hitting each other, hard to tell as the spokes make a loud bang too.
    The HBO works well, I turned it off for testing out of curiosity.
    ps. does the order of the parts matter by any chance? I put the travel adjust spacer under the aluminium washer on the air shaft, under the rubber bumper.

    A metal on metal bottom-out means you have the long bottom-out cone and don't have the 10mm spacers under the bottom-out bumpers.

    Depending on your wheel size and fork, the fix is either the shorter HBO cone or install the spacers.
    The longer HBO cone is only used on the non-boost forks in the 27" wheel configuration.
  • 07-23-2019
    Phiu-x
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Has anybody attempted to fit the IVA sliding seal on an IRT shaft?

    I'm wondering if you could make an IRT for the newer comp forks that come with the IVA by swapping sliding piston/seals?

    Late to the party but this forum need to know!

    Just dit it this morning on a Mastodon COMP (yes, not a PRO model) which has the same 34mm stanchions as the Mattoc COMP and has those same sligthly smaller inner OD, as I quickly found out last night when I tried to put the stock IRT assembly into it. It would not fit UNTIL this post gave me the idea to swap piston. BINGO! I swapped piston easily, a 30 sec job really. Grease everything up and screw the assembly in. It is normal to feel a slight resistance when you do as the new seal (on the black cap) compress, but manhandle it a bit and it will go in. Because both IVA and IRT cap fit on both fork model, they use the same thread. So to be clear , the IRT kit mfg #141-32668-K003 from Manitou fit in the Mattoc and Manitou COMP forks (34mm) when you swap the white IRT piston for the black IVA piston. Well worth upgrade IMO. Thanks!
  • 07-23-2019
    thova
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Pull the lower legs and check if you can push the damper shaft in all the way by hand.

    If you can't then the oil level is too high. Riding with the oil level too high can damage the damper. Too low just makes it slurpy.

    After adjusting the oil level i can push till the end but i need some force. It hurts my hand. Still to much oil?

    The last 3 cm or so i can hear somthing, think it is the black foam compressing. Is that normal?
  • 07-23-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Phiu-x View Post
    So to be clear , the IRT kit mfg #141-32668-K003 from Manitou fit in the Mattoc and Manitou COMP forks (34mm) when you swap the white IRT piston for the black IVA piston. Well worth upgrade IMO. Thanks!

    Maybe the Mastadon Comp and Pro share the same threads, but the Mattoc Comp and Pro do not share the same threads. Yes, swapping pistons will fit, but without the ability to thread the IRT top cap into the Mattoc Comp, the whole task is pointless. But if it works for the mastadon, thats great.
  • 07-23-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Maybe the Mastadon Comp and Pro share the same threads, but the Mattoc Comp and Pro do not share the same threads. Yes, swapping pistons will fit, but without the ability to thread the IRT top cap into the Mattoc Comp, the whole task is pointless. But if it works for the mastadon, thats great.

    There has been a change in Mattoc top-cap threads to provide more metal and stiffen up the stanchion/crown interface.

    I don't think it's about pro vs comp. More about build date and batch.
  • 07-24-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    There has been a change in Mattoc top-cap threads to provide more metal and stiffen up the stanchion/crown interface.

    I don't think it's about pro vs comp. More about build date and batch.

    If that's the case, how would one order an IRT kit for the revised top cap threads? Or do they simply not offer it since all pro versions come stock with IRT these days?

    My recent k003 kit arrived with the old threads that fit my 2014 mattoc pro, and 2016 magnum pro, but not the 2018 comp.
  • 07-24-2019
    Phiu-x
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Maybe the Mastadon Comp and Pro share the same threads, but the Mattoc Comp and Pro do not share the same threads. Yes, swapping pistons will fit, but without the ability to thread the IRT top cap into the Mattoc Comp, the whole task is pointless. But if it works for the mastadon, thats great.

    Funny, because this guy did the same mod on a Mattoc comp ...

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2235879/

    Nothing to do with the threads. but all with the initial insertion. I admit that there is a lot of resistance at first. To the point that I did a double take before I decided to force it in initially. It really seem like IT won't fit but it did . Only on initial insertion .. as a matter of fact when I pulled it out after a day riding I was able to screw it back by hand...and I can still put my IVA cap in If I want. That is why i recommended to manhandle it.
  • 07-24-2019
    GuitsBoy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Phiu-x View Post
    Funny, because this guy did the same mod on a Mattoc comp ...

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2235879/

    Nothing to do with the threads. but all with the initial insertion. I admit that there is a lot of resistance at first. To the point that I did a double take before I decided to force it in initially. It really seem like IT won't fit but it did . Only on initial insertion .. as a matter of fact when I pulled it out after a day riding I was able to screw it back by hand...and I can still put my IVA cap in If I want. That is why i recommended to manhandle it.

    Yeah, I saw that a while ago which is why I really gave it a good try to get it to work, but for me it was a no-go.

    Assuming Dougals explanation, the pinkbike guy got it to work because it was an older mattoc comp, and therefore had the older style threads.

    Like I said, I was able to get the piston to fit in just fine. Like you, there was some initial resistance but it did go in. But once I got to the top cap, it wouldn't screw in. I grabbed my calipers and the thread diameter was indeed considerably different.

    But as per Dougal, it seems all late model mattocs have a smaller top cap thread diameter, not just the comp. In my case, my comp was simply the only model new enough to have the change.
  • 07-24-2019
    Phiu-x
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    Yeah, I saw that a while ago which is why I really gave it a good try to get it to work, but for me it was a no-go.

    Assuming Dougals explanation, the pinkbike guy got it to work because it was an older mattoc comp, and therefore had the older style threads.

    Like I said, I was able to get the piston to fit in just fine. Like you, there was some initial resistance but it did go in. But once I got to the top cap, it wouldn't screw in. I grabbed my calipers and the thread diameter was indeed considerably different.

    But as per Dougal, it seems all late model mattocs have a smaller top cap thread diameter, not just the comp. In my case, my comp was simply the only model new enough to have the change.

    Yes, just saw Dougal's comment about this. A real bummer then. Seem like Manitou does not want existing owners to add value to their purchase and they seem to work pretty hard to change specs on a whim to lock us out of most upgrades. Who would have thought !!! ;)
  • 07-27-2019
    smegoal
    1 Attachment(s)
    help identifying fork
    Hi

    Could anyone identify this for I just bought it for my ns eccentric (140 mm ht) with the intention of pulling it apart and taking spacers out to 140 mm.

    If anyone could have a guess at the year/version would be appreciated if its more then a few years ill change the seals while I am in there.

    Attachment 1267525

    If anyone has had one of this version is there anything else I should be aware of.

    cheers kyle
  • 07-27-2019
    GNU_BLIND
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smegoal View Post
    Hi

    Could anyone identify this for I just bought it for my ns eccentric (140 mm ht) with the intention of pulling it apart and taking spacers out to 140 mm.

    If anyone could have a guess at the year/version would be appreciated if its more then a few years ill change the seals while I am in there.

    Attachment 1267525

    If anyone has had one of this version is there anything else I should be aware of.

    cheers kyle

    Looks to be 2016ish
  • 07-29-2019
    mullen119
    New, updated Mattoc comps are now available.

    Biggest changes are a few rebound piston that flows oil better on the compression stroke andno longer uses a triangle rebound face shim. This allows for easier at home tuning.

    It also is the first fork to use the new VTT damper. It has 3 compression positions using two separate shim stacks. A normal trail tuned stack is used for open and middle positions, the lock position closes off the flow to the main stack and diverts flow to a second stack used for climbing. Stock configuration is basically a fully lock out, though it can be tuned to any stiffness you want if you are willing to tear into it.

    Expert air (dorado air) and IVA are carried over from the last version.

    I have been riding one for around a year, its a pretty nice set up. The new rebound piston is a nice upgrade. I tried a few different tunes, but actually liked what became the stock rebuild tune the best (160lbs running 66.5psi with IVA with full volume reduction). I tried a bunch of different compression tunes as well, but found what became the stock tune to work the best as well.

    I recently switched back to a Mattoc pro with Dougals high flow rebound piston and I have to say, the jump is not huge in performance when moving up. Don't gete wrong, the more adjustable damper and added midstroke support from the IRT made for a better ride, but the comp version really holds its own for $300 less($549usd msrp). Makes for a nice bang for your buck imo.
  • 07-29-2019
    fsrxc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    New, updated Mattoc comps are now available.

    Biggest changes are a few rebound piston that flows oil better on the compression stroke andno longer uses a triangle rebound face shim. This allows for easier at home tuning.

    It also is the first fork to use the new VTT damper. It has 3 compression positions using two separate shim stacks. A normal trail tuned stack is used for open and middle positions, the lock position closes off the flow to the main stack and diverts flow to a second stack used for climbing. Stock configuration is basically a fully lock out, though it can be tuned to any stiffness you want if you are willing to tear into it.

    Expert air (dorado air) and IVA are carried over from the last version.

    I have been riding one for around a year, its a pretty nice set up. The new rebound piston is a nice upgrade. I tried a few different tunes, but actually liked what became the stock rebuild tune the best (160lbs running 66.5psi with IVA with full volume reduction). I tried a bunch of different compression tunes as well, but found what became the stock tune to work the best as well.

    I recently switched back to a Mattoc pro with Dougals high flow rebound piston and I have to say, the jump is not huge in performance when moving up. Don't gete wrong, the more adjustable damper and added midstroke support from the IRT made for a better ride, but the comp version really holds its own for $300 less($549usd msrp). Makes for a nice bang for your buck imo.

    My Expert has the triangle rebound face shim - any chance that Comp rebound piston could retro-fit the Expert?
  • 07-29-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    My Expert has the triangle rebound face shim - any chance that Comp rebound piston could retro-fit the Expert?

    Nay. The Expert has taper wall stanchions (like the Pro) with a bigger diameter piston. The Comp's use straight wall stanchions with a smaller rebound piston.

    The Circus Pro (Mattoc Pro based) has a newly designed excellent rebound piston of the correct diameter. But there's probably something preventing it's fitment. I don't have any expert pistons at hand to check.
  • 07-29-2019
    CS645
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    New, updated Mattoc comps are now available.

    Biggest changes are a few rebound piston that flows oil better on the compression stroke andno longer uses a triangle rebound face shim. This allows for easier at home tuning.

    It also is the first fork to use the new VTT damper. It has 3 compression positions using two separate shim stacks. A normal trail tuned stack is used for open and middle positions, the lock position closes off the flow to the main stack and diverts flow to a second stack used for climbing. Stock configuration is basically a fully lock out, though it can be tuned to any stiffness you want if you are willing to tear into it.

    Expert air (dorado air) and IVA are carried over from the last version.

    I have been riding one for around a year, its a pretty nice set up. The new rebound piston is a nice upgrade. I tried a few different tunes, but actually liked what became the stock rebuild tune the best (160lbs running 66.5psi with IVA with full volume reduction). I tried a bunch of different compression tunes as well, but found what became the stock tune to work the best as well.

    I recently switched back to a Mattoc pro with Dougals high flow rebound piston and I have to say, the jump is not huge in performance when moving up. Don't gete wrong, the more adjustable damper and added midstroke support from the IRT made for a better ride, but the comp version really holds its own for $300 less($549usd msrp). Makes for a nice bang for your buck imo.

    What about the Mattoc pro? I can't recall it getting the high flow piston as standard?
  • 07-31-2019
    stevet1
    Oops, Duplicate
  • 07-31-2019
    stevet1
    Hi, hoping you guys can help me out with a simple query - I've recently had my 2016 Mattoc Pro fork changed to 27.5 configuration, got it done at the same time as a service as I don't have the tools (or the time unfortunately currently). My question is - the a-c is the same as when it went in. Should it be 10mm longer? My understanding was a travel spacer gets moved to the bottom of the piston and extends the stanchions by 10mm to give the extra clearance - have I misunderstood?
    Don't want to ride it and find my 27.5 wheel hits the fork crown...
  • 07-31-2019
    Mac1987
    If your fork was set to 170mm travel in the 26" configuration, then it will now have the same AC but 160mm travel in the 27.5" configuration. The travel spacer doesn't extend the stanchions, but limits the last 10mm of travel, preventing the crown hitting the larger wheel.
    If you kept travel the same (e.g. 150mm > 150mm), then AC will increase by 10mm. I would check travel. You either gained AC or lost travel. If neither changed, they didn't install the spacer correctly.
  • 08-01-2019
    aiv23
    I have a 2018 (I think) Mattoc Comp with around 110 hours of use. By the end of my ride this afternoon the fork had become quite stiff during low speed compressions. I noticed when track standing and moving my body weight forward and back, the fork did not move at all. High speed hits were still responding on the trail but it was also noisier in operation, like a chattering sound.

    I took the lowers off to inspect, and barely a drop of oil came out on either side. This is strange as I serviced the lowers about 10 hours' riding ago. I've not noticed any leaks from the fork. I'm wondering if it's possible the oil has leaked out the bottom of the fork ie where the rods connect to the lowers? Since I nearly stripped those threads when I first serviced the fork, I was careful not to over-tighten during the recent service. I don't have a dual direction torque wrench, so I can't be sure it was torqued correctly other than having a few practice attempts first to 'feel' the 3.5Nm (off the top of my head) on another fastener.

    Is it likely the oil was lost out through the bottom of the lowers? I haven't noticed any oil leaking from there and the bike is stored vertically, so the fork is more or less horizontal most of the time.
  • 08-01-2019
    aiv23
    Another thought is when I removed and cleaned the foam rings (in alcohol), maybe I didn't soak them well enough with new oil before reinstallation, and some of the oil has gone into those? I don't think this accounts for a missing 7mL though.
  • 08-01-2019
    stevet1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    If your fork was set to 170mm travel in the 26" configuration, then it will now have the same AC but 160mm travel in the 27.5" configuration. The travel spacer doesn't extend the stanchions, but limits the last 10mm of travel, preventing the crown hitting the larger wheel.
    If you kept travel the same (e.g. 150mm > 150mm), then AC will increase by 10mm. I would check travel. You either gained AC or lost travel. If neither changed, they didn't install the spacer correctly.

    Thanks. Fork was set to 140mm before it went in. I asked them to check whether it could be dropped to 130 in 27.5 configuration but they said it couldn't (I know that in 26" config it can't) so it should still be 140mm.

    What is the best way to check travel? I removed all the air but couldn't compress it all the way down, felt like I was hitting the HBO maybe?
  • 08-01-2019
    stevet1
    Okay, seems like they added a travel spacer to the bottom of the compression rod, rather than moving one of the existing travel spacers. I take it that means that it is now restricted to 130mm? Have I understood correctly? Any issues with this?
  • 08-01-2019
    stevet1
    Checked - Seems when they did the 26 to 27.5 conversion they added a spacer to the end of the compression rod but didn't remove one from the travel adjust stack - Assume this means that travel has reduced to 130mm as the 27.5 configs ue one less travel spacer in the manual than the 26"? Are there any issues running the fork like this?
  • 08-01-2019
    stevet1
    Checked - Seems when they did the 26 to 27.5 conversion they added a spacer to the end of the compression rod but didn't remove one from the travel adjust stack - Assume this means that travel has reduced to 130mm as the 27.5 configs ue one less travel spacer in the manual than the 26"? Are there any issues running the fork like this?
  • 08-01-2019
    stevet1
    Err, ignore the duplicates, when I'm logged in I can't see my replies for some reason.
  • 08-01-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevet1 View Post
    Thanks. Fork was set to 140mm before it went in. I asked them to check whether it could be dropped to 130 in 27.5 configuration but they said it couldn't (I know that in 26" config it can't) so it should still be 140mm.

    What is the best way to check travel? I removed all the air but couldn't compress it all the way down, felt like I was hitting the HBO maybe?

    If they just added the bottom spacer then you'll have 130mm travel now (10mm less).

    HBO hits with a bang if you run the long 27" cone and no 10mm spacer under. I've been there and done that. So you had the 27" one in already.

    You can keep adding top-out travel spacers into these to drop them to 0 travel if you want. But the air-curve can be a bit linear for shorter travel (if that concerns you).
  • 08-05-2019
    RoboS
    Hello, I recently started having problems with oil migration. Lubrication oil found its way to damper and negative air chamber. I use only 7ml in my 27.5" 160mm Mattoc Pro (first generation). Except that, there is a small leak on the bottom of the air side leg. Does anybody know size and type of seals for both seal heads and bottom of air shaft?

    Thanks

    Regards
    Robo
  • 08-06-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    Hello, I recently started having problems with oil migration. Lubrication oil found its way to damper and negative air chamber. I use only 7ml in my 27.5" 160mm Mattoc Pro (first generation). Except that, there is a small leak on the bottom of the air side leg. Does anybody know size and type of seals for both seal heads and bottom of air shaft?

    Thanks

    Regards
    Robo

    Damper side has a 10x15x4 lip seal, air side has a quad-ring. Replace both with 10x3mm orings and you'll get better sealing with almost no oil migration.

    You will need to remove the PTFE backup ring in the air side to fit the fatter oring.
  • 08-06-2019
    nikon255
    Dougal is right. I made this and have no problems. One thing im not sure is lower air cap oring. I push there one but dont remember sizing. For sure I didnt remove PTFE ring. Ohh found it! For air spring:
    10x2,5
    9,92x2,62
    But Im still not sure which is used in my mattoc. Maybe even 10x3.
  • 08-06-2019
    RoboS
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Damper side has a 10x15x4 lip seal, air side has a quad-ring. Replace both with 10x3mm orings and you'll get better sealing with almost no oil migration.

    You will need to remove the PTFE backup ring in the air side to fit the fatter oring.

    Thanks Dougal for quick reply.

    What seal is at the bottom of each leg? I have drop of oil when I unscrew the air side cap.
  • 08-06-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    Thanks Dougal for quick reply.

    What seal is at the bottom of each leg? I have drop of oil when I unscrew the air side cap.

    Bottom of each leg is the foot seal: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/trelleb...l-manitou.html

    But these are incredibly tough and don't usually damage or leak. Your oil drip is most likely oil in the air spring which is travelling down the inside of the shaft to the cap.
  • 08-06-2019
    RoboS
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Bottom of each leg is the foot seal: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/trelleb...l-manitou.html

    But these are incredibly tough and don't usually damage or leak. Your oil drip is most likely oil in the air spring which is travelling down the inside of the shaft to the cap.

    Thanks, you are the boss :)
  • 08-08-2019
    006_007
    One of my riding buddies picked up a mattoc 1 for his hardtail. We are putting in the new seals (seal plus foam ring) and I cant remember if the snap ring retainer that was with the original seals is put i place after the foam rings or is it just the foam rings and the new seal/wiper?

    I think the snap ring is not used anymore?

    Thanks!
  • 08-08-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    One of my riding buddies picked up a mattoc 1 for his hardtail. We are putting in the new seals (seal plus foam ring) and I cant remember if the snap ring retainer that was with the original seals is put i place after the foam rings or is it just the foam rings and the new seal/wiper?

    I think the snap ring is not used anymore?

    Thanks!

    No snap ring. The new seals have a lip that locks into that same groove.
  • 08-09-2019
    nikon255
    Got mattoc 2 160mm with irt. Rider 72kg, 50/90 psi and some hbo. None lsc/hsc. Rebound full fast or few clicks in. Its great on everything except small breaking bumps. Big breaking bumps are fine, but I cannot find setting to smoothen those little bastards. Dougal any suggestion? Is it even possible on any fork? Its so fast that fork just get stunned. Pumping whole bike help a little or jumping over haha.
  • 08-09-2019
    yourrealdad
    Hello,

    I have a 2014 Mattoc Expert. I have had issues with the damping of it and have sent it into Manitou twice now (only ridden it maybe 5 times).

    I just got it back and it feels smooth, but the LSC doesn't seem to do anything. In order to "lockout" the fork I need to turn the HSC as well. Is this normal for this fork?

    This seems to be how the fork is working, it will be supple for a ride or two then become extremely harsh with no LSC/HSC control, then I send it in.

    On another note, I have now lost the rebound adjustment cap/screw twice. The second time after threadlocking. Is this also a known issue?

    Thanks
  • 08-09-2019
    mullen119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Got mattoc 2 160mm with irt. Rider 72kg, 50/90 psi and some hbo. None lsc/hsc. Rebound full fast or few clicks in. Its great on everything except small breaking bumps. Big breaking bumps are fine, but I cannot find setting to smoothen those little bastards. Dougal any suggestion? Is it even possible on any fork? Its so fast that fork just get stunned. Pumping whole bike help a little or jumping over haha.

    Are you running the new seals?
  • 08-09-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
    Hello,

    I have a 2014 Mattoc Expert. I have had issues with the damping of it and have sent it into Manitou twice now (only ridden it maybe 5 times).

    I just got it back and it feels smooth, but the LSC doesn't seem to do anything. In order to "lockout" the fork I need to turn the HSC as well. Is this normal for this fork?

    That's normal. LSC is not a lockout.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
    This seems to be how the fork is working, it will be supple for a ride or two then become extremely harsh with no LSC/HSC control, then I send it in.

    On another note, I have now lost the rebound adjustment cap/screw twice. The second time after threadlocking. Is this also a known issue?

    Thanks

    That's not normal. Is the fork getting sticky (i.e. stiction issue). Rebound knob screw falls out if it's not tight enough.
  • 08-09-2019
    yourrealdad
    No, not sticky. Just goes to extremely harsh to the point it is almost unridable as a suspension fork.

    Rebound knob was tight and loc-tited. Good to know that 2/3 things are normal.

    Manitou CS has been great, but just tired of paying $30 to ship it and not be able to ride it.
  • 08-09-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
    No, not sticky. Just goes to extremely harsh to the point it is almost unridable as a suspension fork.

    Rebound knob was tight and loc-tited. Good to know that 2/3 things are normal.

    Manitou CS has been great, but just tired of paying $30 to ship it and not be able to ride it.

    Harsh like a big increase in compression damping? I've never seen that.
  • 08-09-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Got mattoc 2 160mm with irt. Rider 72kg, 50/90 psi and some hbo. None lsc/hsc. Rebound full fast or few clicks in. Its great on everything except small breaking bumps. Big breaking bumps are fine, but I cannot find setting to smoothen those little bastards. Dougal any suggestion? Is it even possible on any fork? Its so fast that fork just get stunned. Pumping whole bike help a little or jumping over haha.

    Burinishing the bushings can really help small bumps. But how small are we talking and how fast are you riding?

    Have you got the high flow piston? What oil?

    I run 40/80psi, full LSC, no HSC, high flow piston and hot oil pink. On high speed braking bumps the fork handles them way better when I'm strong and fresh, as soon as I let up on the bars you can get buzzed really quickly.

    But yes, suspension does have limits. It cannot react faster than the frequency dictated by spring, damping and unsprung weight.
  • 08-09-2019
    nikon255
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Burinishing the bushings can really help small bumps. But how small are we talking and how fast are you riding?

    Have you got the high flow piston? What oil?

    I run 40/80psi, full LSC, no HSC, high flow piston and hot oil pink. On high speed braking bumps the fork handles them way better when I'm strong and fresh, as soon as I let up on the bars you can get buzzed really quickly.

    But yes, suspension does have limits. It cannot react faster than the frequency dictated by spring, damping and unsprung weight.

    Seals green SKF, oil silkolene rsf 2.5, stock piston. I mean really small breaking bumps. It doesnt matter if I break on them or not. Feels the same. I didnt mease but looks like 2-3cm height, every 10cm with speed like 30-40km/h.

    According to spring. I used your method for main sprin. Back off lsr and cycle. 40 feels too soft and was wallowy on higher speeds. 50 psi is ok. 90 in irt is max without harshness. Lsr left backed off.

    PS is it better to have light wheel on front fir better fork reaction to bumps?
  • 08-10-2019
    mullen119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Seals green SKF, oil silkolene rsf 2.5, stock piston. I mean really small breaking bumps. It doesnt matter if I break on them or not. Feels the same. I didnt mease but looks like 2-3cm height, every 10cm with speed like 30-40km/h.

    According to spring. I used your method for main sprin. Back off lsr and cycle. 40 feels too soft and was wallowy on higher speeds. 50 psi is ok. 90 in irt is max without harshness. Lsr left backed off.

    PS is it better to have light wheel on front fir better fork reaction to bumps?

    What tire pressure are you running? When you get down to umps that small, tire pressure makes a huge difference.

    What bath oil are you running as well? The green skf seals are great for friction, so they should work well in this situation.

    I have started burnishing all the bushings on my forks. The only place I really noticed a difference was a set of Mattoc boost lower that had a bushing issue (completely fixed them). On forks that felt smooth prior, I didn't notice a difference. I still do it to every fork though, just to be safe.
  • 08-10-2019
    nikon255
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    What tire pressure are you running? When you get down to umps that small, tire pressure makes a huge difference.

    What bath oil are you running as well? The green skf seals are great for friction, so they should work well in this situation.

    I have started burnishing all the bushings on my forks. The only place I really noticed a difference was a set of Mattoc boost lower that had a bushing issue (completely fixed them). On forks that felt smooth prior, I didn't notice a difference. I still do it to every fork though, just to be safe.

    After second day Im completly happy with this fork. Its outstanding! Im just increasiing main pressure and its getting better. 1.5-1.6 in front tire.
  • 08-10-2019
    yourrealdad
    Yeah,

    It goes from felling great and supple with correct sag to feeling like I am riding a rigid fork.

    Dougal, you said it was normal for me to have to use HSC to "lock out", but is it normal for LSC to not seem to do anything?

    I am just used to Fox/RS and even other Manitou ( I have a Tower and Minute Pro) LSC having a noticeable affect on compression force/stiffness.
  • 08-10-2019
    ghostbiker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
    Yeah,

    It goes from felling great and supple with correct sag to feeling like I am riding a rigid fork.

    Dougal, you said it was normal for me to have to use HSC to "lock out", but is it normal for LSC to not seem to do anything?

    I am just used to Fox/RS and even other Manitou ( I have a Tower and Minute Pro) LSC having a noticeable affect on compression force/stiffness.

    HSC adjuster gives LSC adjuster range, if you run HSC fully open, the oil will flow through high speed circuit and LSC adjuster will have very little to no effect.
  • 08-10-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Seals green SKF, oil silkolene rsf 2.5, stock piston. I mean really small breaking bumps. It doesnt matter if I break on them or not. Feels the same. I didnt mease but looks like 2-3cm height, every 10cm with speed like 30-40km/h.

    According to spring. I used your method for main sprin. Back off lsr and cycle. 40 feels too soft and was wallowy on higher speeds. 50 psi is ok. 90 in irt is max without harshness. Lsr left backed off.

    PS is it better to have light wheel on front fir better fork reaction to bumps?

    Too much midvalve damping. You have too much compression damping on transition so you're running less LSC than you need and compensating with higher air pressure.

    This is the reason I made the high flow piston modifications. With the HF piston you can increase LSC (I run closed) to stop wallow and provide support while running lower initial air pressure.
  • 08-10-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yourrealdad View Post
    Yeah,

    It goes from felling great and supple with correct sag to feeling like I am riding a rigid fork.

    Dougal, you said it was normal for me to have to use HSC to "lock out", but is it normal for LSC to not seem to do anything?

    I am just used to Fox/RS and even other Manitou ( I have a Tower and Minute Pro) LSC having a noticeable affect on compression force/stiffness.

    I almost wonder if you have a spring problem. Negative air leaking into the lower legs would do that. Damping I can't think of anything that would.

    The Expert can have a problem where the rebound check spring comes off it's ledge, but that shows up as inconsistent knocking feeling.

    As the others have said, LSC can only provide platform up to the HSC setting. With HSC open closed LSC will provide no platform but good support while moving.
    The Tower and Minute usually have firmer shim stacks than the Mattoc so the LSC is more pronounced. You can however revalve the ABS+ in the Tower/Minute to do whatever you want.
  • 08-11-2019
    aiv23
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Damper side has a 10x15x4 lip seal, air side has a quad-ring. Replace both with 10x3mm orings and you'll get better sealing with almost no oil migration.

    You will need to remove the PTFE backup ring in the air side to fit the fatter oring.

    This (oil migration) sounds like it may be the same problem I was describing above on my Comp, although I haven't yet pulled it apart again to check. Are the o-rings needed for the Comp the same as you mentioned earlier?
  • 08-12-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aiv23 View Post
    This (oil migration) sounds like it may be the same problem I was describing above on my Comp, although I haven't yet pulled it apart again to check. Are the o-rings needed for the Comp the same as you mentioned earlier?

    The Comp uses the same seals on the air-side, but the damper side is completely different.
  • 08-12-2019
    aiv23
    What seals do I need to fix the damper side on the Comp then?
  • 08-26-2019
    winkothemadman
    My steerer is creaking pretty bady (its 100% the fork, installed it on two bikes, one has brand new headset that does not make a sound with other fork). Anything I can do or just send it back to crc?
  • 09-02-2019
    CS645
    What's everyone's experience on the new low friction seals ability to keep dirt out?

    On the three Mattoc's I've serviced the bath oil seemed a lot dirtier than I remember from the old seals at equal intervals and riding conditions, but I'm not sure if my memory is playing tricks on me.

    Does Manitou/Hayes still produce/distribute the old seals?
  • 09-02-2019
    Mac1987
    The old ones did seem a bit better in keeping dirt out. The new ones are at least as good as the ones in both my Fox 32 and 34 though, and the increase in suppleness is noticeable. For me it's worth the slightly lower service interval.
  • 09-02-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by winkothemadman View Post
    My steerer is creaking pretty bady (its 100% the fork, installed it on two bikes, one has brand new headset that does not make a sound with other fork). Anything I can do or just send it back to crc?

    Send it back to CRC. They are also the UK importer and can fix it.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    What's everyone's experience on the new low friction seals ability to keep dirt out?

    On the three Mattoc's I've serviced the bath oil seemed a lot dirtier than I remember from the old seals at equal intervals and riding conditions, but I'm not sure if my memory is playing tricks on me.

    Does Manitou/Hayes still produce/distribute the old seals?

    I've been very impressed with their dust/mud and oil tightness.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BaXaEAelhUM/

    I haven't noticed oil contamination as much as oil depletion. The bath oil film on the stanchions is more than tighter seals and you end up with less in the lowers. It's more important to keep up with it. 6 months of intensive riding and you can lose about 5cc from each side. Leaving only 2cc which is then pretty dark and degraded.

    But well worth it. You do not want to go back to the old seals.
  • 09-03-2019
    CS645
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I've been very impressed with their dust/mud and oil tightness.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BaXaEAelhUM/

    I haven't noticed oil contamination as much as oil depletion. The bath oil film on the stanchions is more than tighter seals and you end up with less in the lowers. It's more important to keep up with it. 6 months of intensive riding and you can lose about 5cc from each side. Leaving only 2cc which is then pretty dark and degraded.

    But well worth it. You do not want to go back to the old seals.


    Well, I'm asking because I was servicing my old Mattoc which I sold to a friend and was a bit surprised by the amount of mud in it. I though, well this guy rides in all weather and does a lot of K's, so prolly combination of K's and poor cleaning standards.

    However yesterday, I was doing a lower service on both our Mattoc's and the oil again was quite dirty (I put in 9cc in each leg), last service a few months ago. All three on the new seals.

    I think to remember I was quite surprised in the past about how good the old seals were at keeping mud out. Of course I like the performance improvement, but the idea of mud scratching on the stanchions ....

    I quite like the fact my oldest Mattoc is now more than four years old and still looking and working as should.
  • 09-03-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    Well, I'm asking because I was servicing my old Mattoc which I sold to a friend and was a bit surprised by the amount of mud in it. I though, well this guy rides in all weather and does a lot of K's, so prolly combination of K's and poor cleaning standards.

    However yesterday, I was doing a lower service on both our Mattoc's and the oil again was quite dirty (I put in 9cc in each leg), last service a few months ago. All three on the new seals.

    I think to remember I was quite surprised in the past about how good the old seals were at keeping mud out. Of course I like the performance improvement, but the idea of mud scratching on the stanchions ....

    I quite like the fact my oldest Mattoc is now more than four years old and still looking and working as should.

    Is it dirty or degraded oil?

    When oil is worked it darkens in colour, then turns brown and eventually black as it degrades. It will do this even when kept completely clean of external contaminants.

    If seals are leaking, water in the fork is one of the clearest signs. If the fork is ridden in damp conditions with worn seals then water gets in. If you use a bath oil with a dispersant (semi-bath, supergliss) it will go milky coloured as it holds the water. If you use an oil that seperates (fork oils) the water will sit in the bottom of any drained oil.
  • 09-04-2019
    CS645
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Is it dirty or degraded oil?

    When oil is worked it darkens in colour, then turns brown and eventually black as it degrades. It will do this even when kept completely clean of external contaminants.

    If seals are leaking, water in the fork is one of the clearest signs. If the fork is ridden in damp conditions with worn seals then water gets in. If you use a bath oil with a dispersant (semi-bath, supergliss) it will go milky coloured as it holds the water. If you use an oil that seperates (fork oils) the water will sit in the bottom of any drained oil.


    I would describe it like chocolate milk. I automatically assumed it was debris, but reading your above explanation I probably shouldn't have. It's now in my oil collection pot so can't examine it further. I will do on my next service.

    I spray the lower legs from the top with alcohol, so there was some separation but the oil itself was chocolate milk. So water ingestion seems likely. It was supergliss btw.

    I wonder if there's a chance the new seals let the water in more easily than the old ones (especially when worn like you say).
  • 09-07-2019
    ErnoNykanen
    I've been trying my best to go through and search this thread but I haven't found much information regarding the comparison between pro and comp.

    Judging from the manufacturers website, they might as well be two different forks since the spring and damper appear to be different. Most of this thread's discussions seem to be around pro but is the comp any good? The price difference seems to be quite substantial.

    I'm not a pro rider so I think I'll live without HBO and HSC adjustments but the overall performance and spring curve is something I'm looking for.
  • 09-08-2019
    mullen119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ErnoNykanen View Post
    I've been trying my best to go through and search this thread but I haven't found much information regarding the comparison between pro and comp.

    Judging from the manufacturers website, they might as well be two different forks since the spring and damper appear to be different. Most of this thread's discussions seem to be around pro but is the comp any good? The price difference seems to be quite substantial.

    I'm not a pro rider so I think I'll live without HBO and HSC adjustments but the overall performance and spring curve is something I'm looking for.

    The comp is an excellent fork. The spring systems between the comp and pro are the same, but the comp uses steel as the shaft material to keep costs down. Makes for the same performance, just a little heavier. Comps also use IVA instead of IRT. Basically a token system rather than I secondary air chamber.

    The dampers (both VTT and abs+) person very well, they are just not as tuneable externally as the pros mc2 damper. The abs+ damper has a non adjustable HBO system. The VTT damper skips the HBO entirely. VTT has 2 compression shim stacks, one for a lock and one for main damping purposes. This allows for the main stack to work properly without need of preloading it. Basically, you get a XC lock out with the regular performance of the trail tune.

    Chassis is mostly the same. Same lowers, same crown, different leg material (6066 aluminum instead of the pros 7050). Its slightly heavier, but also helps keep the price down.

    The fine tuning of the pro is a benefit for people who are very particular, but the comp has 90% of the performance and a small weight penalty for hundreds cheaper. Its a great deal.
  • 09-08-2019
    ErnoNykanen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    [Snip to make quote shorter]
    The fine tuning of the pro is a benefit for people who are very particular, but the comp has 90% of the performance and a small weight penalty for hundreds cheaper. Its a great deal.

    Cheers, that's exactly the kind of summary I was looking for! And also pretty much what I was hoping to hear. I'm for sure not a weight weenie and not experienced enough to tell the most subtle differences on the trail. I'm looking most likely to upgrade the Recon silver coming on my '20 Fuel Ex to something more robust and this would be a great alternative to sourcing a used Fox 34 or a Pike.
  • 09-08-2019
    jdang307
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    How would you use shockwiz with this fork?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post

    This is an old post, but Dougal, are you saying, if you add that aircap to the top of the Mattoc, you can add air that way just to the positive chamber, and attach a shockwiz without it opening up the negative/postive together? Crazy if true (and would have saved me $250 if I read this before and bought a SMB Flow which I'm not too crazy about).
  • 09-08-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    This is an old post, but Dougal, are you saying, if you add that aircap to the top of the Mattoc, you can add air that way just to the positive chamber, and attach a shockwiz without it opening up the negative/postive together? Crazy if true (and would have saved me $250 if I read this before and bought a SMB Flow which I'm not too crazy about).

    Yes. But keep in mind for 2020 Manitou have changed the top-cap threads. So check yours first.
  • 09-08-2019
    jdang307
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    How would you use shockwiz with this fork?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes. But keep in mind for 2020 Manitou have changed the top-cap threads. So check yours first.

    Mine is the old CRC Pro 2 non-boost. Should be good.

    As an aside, not relying on Shockwiz purely for setup. But I use it as sort of a check on what I'm feeling.

    Surprisingly enough, my bike went out of commission because of drive train issues. Bronson v1 VPP2. I can never get it to where I like it. I'ts better with the mattoc and mcleod, but I'm still missing something.

    Jumped on an Intense tracer with the VPP attached to the top tube instead of seat tube. He's 180'ish, I'm 140'ish, all geared up. Didn't want to touch his settings so I rode it as is.

    His bike was so damn composed vs mine hauling arse down rocky rooty so cal terrain. Of course, my back was punished after a week. Like sciatica pain. But I liked how composed it was. Looking for that balance of support without the crazy pain in my back (which I guess I can tune with knobs after spring etc. is set).

    I have IRT. Wonder if it can be taken apart to just use the cap for now :D
  • 09-12-2019
    hurck
    My irt seems to leak air. Is there a replacement o-ring kit i can buy somewhere, can't find any reference about them on the manitou website. Or should i just go to the local hardware store to try to source them there?

    edit: I do have a full rebuild kit lying around, are the o-rings for the irt included in it?
  • 09-12-2019
    ac1000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hurck View Post
    My irt seems to leak air. Is there a replacement o-ring kit i can buy somewhere, can't find any reference about them on the manitou website. Or should i just go to the local hardware store to try to source them there?

    edit: I do have a full rebuild kit lying around, are the o-rings for the irt included in it?

    A while back I asked Manitou for the IRT O ring size.
    They said:

    The o-ring is included in the rebuild kit for your fork (part number 141-28528-K008). Alternatively the o-ring description is ďO-RING 2-119 BUNA-N 70AĒ. You can use this description to search for a replacement online or your nearest retailer who carries o-rings.

    I found the 119 size oring in a bin at my work and it did the job.
  • 09-12-2019
    RoboS
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hurck View Post
    My irt seems to leak air. Is there a replacement o-ring kit i can buy somewhere, can't find any reference about them on the manitou website. Or should i just go to the local hardware store to try to source them there?

    edit: I do have a full rebuild kit lying around, are the o-rings for the irt included in it?

    Just buy these orings
    IRT seal inner - 9.19x2.62mm NBR70
    IRT seal outer - 23,81x2,62mm NBR70

    Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk
  • 09-12-2019
    hurck
    Thanks for your replies! Iíll check in the rebuild kit first when i get back from work. If itís not in it iíll order them online somewhere.
  • 09-27-2019
    KillerKamote
    Hi Guys,

    slightly new member of the forum here and has been reading this thread. I just got my Mattoc Pro 2018 27.5+/29 120mm~140mm version. I noticed that I can't turn my HBO dial right out from the box, but from the info from the older pages I guess I just have to break this in and hopefully it will allow me to make HBO adjustments in the future.

    This is also my first complicated fork but im still reading info on the net to learn more about it. I do have a question about the air chambers. This fork has air valve at the bottom and top [IRT], I emptied both and put air first from the bottom valve. Then i noticed that the same pressure that I put from the bottom is the same pressure that I'm getting when I plug in on the top valve. Is that expected?
  • 09-27-2019
    Mac1987
    The IRT pressure (valve on the top) has to be equal to or higher than the main pressure (bottom valve), otherwise the main chamber just pushes the IRT piston back.
    It's also best to first pressurize the IRT and then the main chamber, otherwise the IRT will increase the pressure in the main chamber (because the pressurized IRT chamber increases IRT volume and decreases main volume up to the stop).
  • 09-27-2019
    Vespasianus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KillerKamote View Post
    Hi Guys,

    slightly new member of the forum here and has been reading this thread. I just got my Mattoc Pro 2018 27.5+/29 120mm~140mm version. I noticed that I can't turn my HBO dial right out from the box, but from the info from the older pages I guess I just have to break this in and hopefully it will allow me to make HBO adjustments in the future.

    This is also my first complicated fork but im still reading info on the net to learn more about it. I do have a question about the air chambers. This fork has air valve at the bottom and top [IRT], I emptied both and put air first from the bottom valve. Then i noticed that the same pressure that I put from the bottom is the same pressure that I'm getting when I plug in on the top valve. Is that expected?

    No, what Mac said is correct. Dump out all the air from both chambers. Pull the legs apart and make sure everything is fully extended. Now, fill the top IRT chamber to roughly double what you think the bottom chamber will be. Now, turn bike upside down and again make sure the legs are fully extended. Now fill the bottom to your desired pressure.

    The HBO should turn. IF it is still really tight, loosen the top screw a tiny bit and see if that helps.
  • 09-28-2019
    KillerKamote
    thanks for the advise guys will give it another go later on. will start hunting for that deep narrow socket and oil so i can do maintenance to this fork it the future.
  • 10-02-2019
    ZeroNine3
    I'm trying to decide between the Mattoc pro and circus pro 130mm... I'm building a 26" chromag stylus. Bike would probably be 50/50 dirt jumping and trail riding.

    I believe that the circus pro can be extended to 140... I'm willing to give up some trail performance for durability. How will the Mattoc hold up to dirt jumping? What's the difference between the abs+ damper and the mc2 damper?
  • 10-02-2019
    tdaniel93
    What should be the expected break in time for the new low friction seals? Picked up a Mattoc Pro 27.5 Boost with the interested fender so I know it has the new seals. I've got about 75 miles on it and I feel like there's a lot more striction that there should be, even more than my old Recon RL. I pulled the lowers and coated the seals in SRAM butter which seemed to help. I also noticed more dirt in the lower leg oil than I was expecting too.

    I have no issue getting through my travel on the trails, it's just not as supple as I was expecting when it comes to low speed compliance and the initial breakaway stiction seems high.

    Any thoughts on this? I emailed Manitou support Sunday and haven't heard back yet.
  • 10-02-2019
    jdang307
    When I got my Pro 2 from CRC, it was smooth like butter right away. I notice more stiction now and looking for a rebuild. It's been a year or more, and I haven't opened it up yet even for lower service. :D

    About 2,000 miles in. Do I need to replace everything, or just take apart, clean, assemble? Is this the kid I need?

    https://www.performancebike.com/mani...CABEgJ-v_D_BwE
  • 10-02-2019
    mobilenemo
    I think my mattoc has developed bushing play on the damper side. When i hold the front brake and rock the bike fore and aft i can feel play and clicking in the handle bars. Doing the same thing with a finger wedged between the uppers and arch I can feel the play at that location. Would a lowers service fix this ? The fork is about 2 years old.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
  • 10-03-2019
    Crankyanken
    1 Attachment(s)
    First time poster/user with a 160mm Mattoc Pro Boost, fork dated 5/12/17. I put this unused fork on a carbon Salsa Redpoint frame from the same year, finally finished building it six months ago. I am a big fan of Manitou and the ABS+ custom tune setups, so going to IRT and MC2 with HBO has been quite the learning curve. Yesterday I decided to drop my pressures from 100/50 to 60/40 (170lbs) and was shocked at the difference it made and how much more it soaked up, and how much better it felt. For the first time, I was actually able to dial in HSC and LSC and actually feel the differences the changes made on the ride. The only thing I had to compensate was speeding up the rebound to balance the ride out better. More to try and test out.

    Here is the ride:

    Attachment 1284019
  • 10-03-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    I think my mattoc has developed bushing play on the damper side. When i hold the front brake and rock the bike fore and aft i can feel play and clicking in the handle bars. Doing the same thing with a finger wedged between the uppers and arch I can feel the play at that location. Would a lowers service fix this ? The fork is about 2 years old.

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

    A lowers service will make it less noticable, but to fix it requires the top bushing to be resized and possibly shimmed.
  • 10-04-2019
    Langestrom
    2 Attachment(s)
    Langestrom's guide to un-f your shaft foot
    Langestrom's guide to un-f your shaft foot ;)

    Disclamer: It was almost a year ago, I really don't know the right terminology, and I've had a beer while writing this. Dougal might need to correct me here.

    The shaft foot is a real champ, and unsung hero. It does a lot of things in the mattoc.

    • It attaches the rebound assembly to the outer casing.
    • It holds the bearing balls that is the mechanics behind the rebound clicks.
    • It breaks when you use a clockwise torque wrench, counter clockwise.


    How it works
    The shaft foot is attached to the outer rebound shaft.
    On the shaft foot there is a circular spring.
    The spring holds two (cant remember if it was two, or one balls, beer doesn't help here) small bearing balls in place.
    On the inner rebound shaft, the one that pokes through the center of the shaft and where the rebound dial is attached to, there are some splines.
    In normal operation conditions the balls rests comfortably in the valley of mentioned splines.

    When you turn the rebound dial (and therefore the inner shaft), you force the bearing balls to move outward, normal from the shaft surface, and then in to the next spline. This is what we feel as a "rebound click".

    How to fix it.

    But first!
    If there is any kind of seals, rubber gaskets or round soft things on the outer shaft, slide them out of the way. (Can't really remember if there is a seal on the outer shaft, close to the shaft foot, but it looks like it on the pics.)

    Any other seal ON the shaft foot should be removed, and installed on the new one. If it doesn't come with new ones that is.


    HOW TO.

    1. Remove spring, towards the outer shaft, using some kind of pick
    2. Remove the balls, the one, or two, in the shaft foot. Not the other ones.
    3. Clamp the outer shaft in some soft jaws, close but not to close to the shaft foot, as it might press on the threads, which you are trying to untread.
    4. Use some tongue-and-groove plies, or equivalent to unthread the old shaft foot
    5. Add some thread lock on to the new shaft foot and install it
    6. Install the bearing balls and spring


    Done.


  • 10-04-2019
    Crankyanken
    @ Lanstrom, awesome post, much appreciated! I am having to do this on my wifes Magnum, you would think I would be able to avoid ham-fisting a four year old fork with countless bath oil changes.

    @ Dougal, Since I have the rebound assy. out of the Magnum Comp, I notice the blue piston there looks identical to your High Flow Piston that you offer for the Mattoc. If they are the same dimensions, I may have to do a part swap... I don't think the wife would notice. Any help would be appreciated!!
  • 10-05-2019
    neb
    I've read (I think!) that the Mezzer has a reduced irt volume ratio against the main spring. Is there any benefit to reducing the volume of irt in the Mattoc?
  • 10-05-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crankyanken View Post
    @ Lanstrom, awesome post, much appreciated! I am having to do this on my wifes Magnum, you would think I would be able to avoid ham-fisting a four year old fork with countless bath oil changes.

    @ Dougal, Since I have the rebound assy. out of the Magnum Comp, I notice the blue piston there looks identical to your High Flow Piston that you offer for the Mattoc. If they are the same dimensions, I may have to do a part swap... I don't think the wife would notice. Any help would be appreciated!!

    Magnum/Mattoc comp will have a rebound piston around 31mm OD. The Mattoc Pro high flow piston is not quite 16mm.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by neb View Post
    I've read (I think!) that the Mezzer has a reduced irt volume ratio against the main spring. Is there any benefit to reducing the volume of irt in the Mattoc?

    It's easy and cheap to test. Splurge some grease into the IRT chamber.

    The Mezzer has different volumes for positive, negative and IRT as it was the first fork Manitou have designed from the start for IRT. The Mattoc and Dorado IRT were retrofits to work with existing air chambers.

    Interestingly the mattoc comp is the one with the most flexibility for air volume changes as it has a constant diameter inside the stanchions. The Pro is tapered in the middle.
  • 10-05-2019
    neb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    It's easy and cheap to test. Splurge some grease into the IRT chamber.

    The Mezzer has different volumes for positive, negative and IRT as it was the first fork Manitou have designed from the start for IRT. The Mattoc and Dorado IRT were retrofits to work with existing air chambers.

    Interestingly the mattoc comp is the one with the most flexibility for air volume changes as it has a constant diameter inside the stanchions. The Pro is tapered in the middle.

    Cool, thanks for that. I was thinking of spacing the irt piston away from the end stop, so reducing the irt volume and increasing the main spring slightly.

    Cheers
  • 10-05-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by neb View Post
    Cool, thanks for that. I was thinking of spacing the irt piston away from the end stop, so reducing the irt volume and increasing the main spring slightly.

    Cheers

    Sure. Putting a spacer on the shaft (increasing main volume while reducing IRT volume) will make IRT kick in later as it takes more stroke for the main to build to IRT pressure.
  • 10-07-2019
    kendunn
    ANyone seen some NOS non boost 29 expert or pros around? My Auron is starting to feel pretty rough, when I compared it to my Mattoc on my other 2 bikes.....definitely something going on that I can't seem to get fixed
  • 10-07-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kendunn View Post
    ANyone seen some NOS non boost 29 expert or pros around? My Auron is starting to feel pretty rough, when I compared it to my Mattoc on my other 2 bikes.....definitely something going on that I can't seem to get fixed

    There are no non-boost 29er's. Only the 27+/29" which was a boost fork or the 29+ which is also boost.
  • 10-15-2019
    jdang307
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I'm biased, but will give my 2 cents(key word is my, I am in no way speaking for Manitou)

    Pink bike clearly got a bad fork. No excuses for this, its just what happened. Over the last few weeks, the bushing issue has come to Manitou's attention and is being worked out. I'm not going to speak on this at the moment, but it will be publicly addressed very soon. If you are the owner of a fork with a bushing issue, you will be taken care of.

    No body will flame someone who talks bad about Manitou. Not everyone likes the same thing, and the mezzer is not for everyone. Its can be a little tricky to set up because of how adjustable it is. Its understandable some people don't have good experiences at first, especially if they are not used to how a Manitou damper works.

    The issue I have with the review comes from a few different things. First, the reviewers contact with Manitou was almost non existent. I know what he wrote in the comments, but I also know he made no attempt at contacting the person who installed the fork for him to ask questions about the issues or for set up advice. Second, Manitou was not contacted prior to release of the review to ask for a statement on the issues he found. I'm not saying a reviewer should contact a company in every case prior to posting a review, but a little bit of contact prior to flaming a product would bring validation to a review. I know they have done this for other reviews, seems like common sense. Third, I think its pretty clear by the review that the tester did not spend much time attempting to find good settings. The bushing issue likely made it harder to find good settings, but he contradicts himself in multiple places about set up. Example being that the LSC adjustment does nothing, then says he ran it close to open to avoid harshness. Another being the assumption that more damping means harshness. Maybe true with some dampers and some situations, but Manitou dampers are designed like a Moto damper and do not spike like others. A lack of compression damping can cause harshness just as much as too much Lastly, the review is also pretty short for a review that supposedly took place over months. I have seen first ride articles with more detail and more information than this longer-term review. It really feels like he tossed it on, said it sucks, and went back the lyrik. Never really giving it a true chance.

    mullen you posted this in the Mezzer thread, and it got me thinking. Can you tell me more about how the damper behaves? Perhaps that's whats stumping me as I try to dial in my suspension. It's working okay but I can't seem to dial it in as I get closer to what I like, then make an adjustment and it's further off than before.

    I have mattoc and mcleod on a Bronson v1. The best it's felt was when I wasn't using even 70% of my travel. I know, don't tune for using all the travel. Also the point about damping actually doesn't make it harsher all of the time, that sounds interesting.
  • 10-15-2019
    Frs1661
    I have a 29+ Magnum Comp set @120 mm. Can the travel be extended to 130 or 140 mm? My impression is no, but the air shaft has 2 spacers that could hypothetically be removed...
  • 10-15-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frs1661 View Post
    I have a 29+ Magnum Comp set @120 mm. Can the travel be extended to 130 or 140 mm? My impression is no, but the air shaft has 2 spacers that could hypothetically be removed...

    Unfortunately no. 120mm max for the 29+. The 27+/29" can go to 140mm and can be modified for a shade more.
  • 10-17-2019
    Frs1661
    Too bad-- thanks Dougal!
  • 10-17-2019
    jdang307
    So I installed the IRT without knowing to grease it all up, I'm pretty sure it's shot as it's dry. It seems to hold pressure though, no shifting or seeping. Lube her up and she's good to go?

    Looks like grainger carries them so I gotta buy 50 of those orings.
  • 10-17-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    So I installed the IRT without knowing to grease it all up, I'm pretty sure it's shot as it's dry. It seems to hold pressure though, no shifting or seeping. Lube her up and she's good to go?

    Looks like grainger carries them so I gotta buy 50 of those orings.

    -110 is the size code, N70 is the material.

    If it still holds air you're probably good to go. If it leaks your fork gets firmer.
  • 10-20-2019
    Htshan
    Hi guys,
    i'd need an help with rebound assembly. I did some search, but couldn't find the right stuff, probably my english isn't good enough ( as my technical language knowledge ).

    I was doing an air service to my Mattoc, the rebound knob adjuster's screw wouldn't come off and i rounded the hex head by adding some strenght. I could unscrew it using a torx screwdriver and a good amount of strenght.
    When I re assembled the fork I realized my rebound wouldn't turn anymore.
    So, I reopened it, this time also damper side. Rebound assembly came out without "piston head" ( don't know if that is correct ) that was unscrewed and stuck into stanchion.

    What can I do to unlock the rebound? Is there any photo or documentation on how to do a service to rebound?
    I saw on top of rebound a 5mm allen key fits, so I'm thinking to unscrew from there while holding firmly the rebound knob with a wrench.
    Is that correct? Any suggestions?

    Thanks in advance :)
  • 10-21-2019
    piciu256
    The rebound adjuster is just an aluminium screw with long shaft, since you tried to unscrew the adjuster screw, you jammed the adjuster all the way to the left, I doubt you stripped the threads this way, as there is quite a good interface, you need to get a fitting hex socket (5.5 mm if I remember correctly) and turn the adjustment shaft clockwise, after done remember to hold the adjustment knob when trying to undo the screw next time. I don't run the knob myself, as the previous owner lost it, and since I setup the rebound once, I don't feel the need for it.
  • 10-21-2019
    Htshan
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    The rebound adjuster is just an aluminium screw with long shaft, since you tried to unscrew the adjuster screw, you jammed the adjuster all the way to the left, I doubt you stripped the threads this way, as there is quite a good interface, you need to get a fitting hex socket (5.5 mm if I remember correctly) and turn the adjustment shaft clockwise, after done remember to hold the adjustment knob when trying to undo the screw next time. I don't run the knob myself, as the previous owner lost it, and since I setup the rebound once, I don't feel the need for it.

    Thank you for you reply,
    just to be sure we understood each other :) :

    - My knob is still ok and engages correctly the shaft. Just have to replace the old screw
    - When uscrewing I'm pretty sure I was holding the knob, could be all way right if perhaps I counter rotated the knob when using the screwdriver.
    - I had to hit the screwdriver to make it grip in the screw head...not hard but who knows, probably it wasn't a smart move
    - If I hold the shaft, I can't turn knob anymore



    I'll give a try like this, without exceeding in both direction. Unfortunately the first socket I found isn't long/thin enough to fit knob spot
  • 10-21-2019
    piciu256
    So you still have the damper apart? That makes things a whole lot easier, just take apart the assembly (top or bottom, doesn't matter) to release the tension from the shaft, that way you'll avoid turning in the wrong direction.
  • 10-21-2019
    Htshan
    Meanwhile, went to my secret room and solved it. I wasn't sure adding force would be the method.
    What a waste of time... I could just force the knob when I first reassembled. Now I have to refill both oils

    Thanks
  • 10-21-2019
    Mudguard
    I was playing around with my air pressures...
  • 10-22-2019
    nashwillis
    I am looking at getting a 2018 mattoc pro, 191-34120-A001, if I am planning on lowering it to 140mm is there anything else I need to check or replace when doing so? New seals?
  • 10-24-2019
    piciu256
    So, I just realised that my Mattoc is getting sucked down very slowly, it collapsed 10mm in one month, I guess it should have happened in the 6 or so hours of riding, cause at full extension the negative chamber pressure is actually higher than positive. What should I do to fix it, the quad ring is pretty much new, so it's not the problem (I replaced it cause I thought it was the issue)
  • 10-24-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by piciu256 View Post
    So, I just realised that my Mattoc is getting sucked down very slowly, it collapsed 10mm in one month, I guess it should have happened in the 6 or so hours of riding, cause at full extension the negative chamber pressure is actually higher than positive. What should I do to fix it, the quad ring is pretty much new, so it's not the problem (I replaced it cause I thought it was the issue)

    How old is your Mattoc? Any chance the piston got scratched when changing the quad-ring?

    If the negative shaft seal is worn it can pull in bath oil to the negative and that shortens the fork. The best replacement for that is a 10x3 metric o-ring. It seals a lot tighter.
  • 10-24-2019
    Dougal
    After riding the Mezzer and going back to the Mattoc (while my Mezzer was on Demo) I'm tweaking my IRT pressures even more.

    I used to ride 40/60psi. That increased to 40/80psi as I started riding harder.
    This week I tried 35/85 and I think I like it. More sensitive, still great mid-end support and I don't have excessive sag. I had to speed the rebound up a click.

    Trails were a mix of technical uphill and tight-technical rocky downhills. No high speed. 70kg rider plus gear.
  • 10-24-2019
    Mac1987
    What settings did you use for HSC/LSC/LSR with those pressures? I weigh 72-75 kg and run higher pressure without doing large jumps and drops (0.7 meter max). I suspect you run far more compression damping. I tried lower pressures in the past, but the fork got too wallowy.
  • 10-24-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    What settings did you use for HSC/LSC/LSR with those pressures? I weigh 72-75 kg and run higher pressure without doing large jumps and drops (0.7 meter max). I suspect you run far more compression damping. I tried lower pressures in the past, but the fork got too wallowy.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

    High flow piston, Hot Oil Pink, LSC closed or 1 click open. No HSC.
  • 10-24-2019
    piciu256
    It's the first gen, it's not pulling in oil to the chamber, not that there would be enough oil to affect it so much anyway, piston is not scratched- made sure of that (didn't use any tools to pry the seal off, just fingers) the inside stanchion is not damaged either, nor there is debris between it and the seal (if there were, it would suck down a lot faster)
    How would one go about replacing the shaft seal anyway? I don't see how without destroying the bushing.
  • 10-24-2019
    croakies
    It's always interesting to see wide range of pressures that work for people. I'm roughly same weight, 155lbs, and run ~60 main / 115 irt @ 160mm of travel with a healthy dose of HSC too. It's a taught/supportive ride but still regularly bottom out. The low friction of the mattoc + cushcore I think also lets me get away with pressures I use.

    I do hit high speed chunk and jumps for context but I would recommend folks not shy away from higher pressures/more dampening, feels great for me.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
  • 10-24-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by croakies View Post
    It's always interesting to see wide range of pressures that work for people. I'm roughly same weight, 155lbs, and run ~60 main / 115 irt @ 160mm of travel with a healthy dose of HSC too. It's a taught/supportive ride but still regularly bottom out. The low friction of the mattoc + cushcore I think also lets me get away with pressures I use.

    I do hit high speed chunk and jumps for context but I would recommend folks not shy away from higher pressures/more dampening, feels great for me.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

    I once got a demo Mattoc back from a normal size rider with 180psi in the IRT!
  • 10-24-2019
    croakies
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I once got a demo Mattoc back from a normal size rider with 180psi in the IRT!

    Dangggg! I wonder at what % of travel irt would even start moving in that scenario.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
  • 10-25-2019
    piciu256
    Probably just someone used to riding rock sucks forks stuffed with volume spacers, I personally run 50psi (140mm) with 4 IVA spacers (old version with no extension) to achieve linear travel and good support, its comfortable enough.
    Many people don't realise that damping (not dampening btw. dampening makes you wet, damping makes you go fast) can make the suspension more comfortable to ride in many situations, by dissipating the energy in both directions- less preload in the sprig means less force pushing against your hands.
  • 10-26-2019
    Curveball
    I just bought a new hardtail bike with a Mattoc Comp fork (a big selling point) to complement my enduro bike. The manual for the fork does nothing to explain the air system and how to set it up. Also, the top cap for the air spring won't budge.

    I'm sorry that I don't want to go searching through 24 pages to find out how this thing works. Can someone explain what different air valves do and how to set them up?

    Thanks much.


    Curve.
  • 10-26-2019
    aerius
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I just bought a new hardtail bike with a Mattoc Comp fork (a big selling point) to complement my enduro bike. The manual for the fork does nothing to explain the air system and how to set it up. Also, the top cap for the air spring won't budge.

    I'm sorry that I don't want to go searching through 24 pages to find out how this thing works. Can someone explain what different air valves do and how to set them up?

    I just pulled up the service manual for the Mattoc Comp.
    https://manitoumtb.com/wp-content/up...l-Change-1.pdf

    The air spring side has a top cap at the crown and another one on the bottom of the leg. The top cap is for the volume adjust system and requires a 24mm socket to remove, you probably won't need to remove it unless you want to adjust the air spring volume. The bottom one is where you add & remove air, attach air pump, inflate as needed, make sure fork is fully extended, remove air pump.
  • 10-26-2019
    NH Mtbiker
    Where can you purchase the Mattoc Pro, shipped to the US? Really having a hard time figuring this out, but it's the fork I want over Fox, RS and MRP.
    The website is not helpful and can't seem to locate the fork I need...a Mattoc Pro 140 29er boost. Wow, I guess good things are just hard to come by these days...or am I not looking hard enough??
  • 10-26-2019
    mullen119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Where can you purchase the Mattoc Pro, shipped to the US? Really having a hard time figuring this out, but it's the fork I want over Fox, RS and MRP.
    The website is not helpful and can't seem to locate the fork I need...a Mattoc Pro 140 29er boost. Wow, I guess good things are just hard to come by these days...or am I not looking hard enough??

    You can buy it direct from Manitou

    https://shop.hayesperformance.com/co...10645560950820
  • 10-26-2019
    NH Mtbiker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post

    Thank you! I can assume that the 120mm version can be internally adjusted up to 140mm? Did not see that I could scroll to other pages with more choices on the Mattoc Pro.
  • 10-26-2019
    mullen119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    Thank you! I can assume that the 120mm version can be internally adjusted up to 140mm? Did not see that I could scroll to other pages with more choices on the Mattoc Pro.

    Yes, the 120mm can extend to 140mm. The 100 can not though, so make sure to buy the 120.

    Manitou (and all of the Hayes group brands) are now selling direct, so you should be able to buy anything you need from them. Some service parts are cheaper to find elsewhere though
  • 10-26-2019
    piciu256
    Mattoc leaking air into negative.
    I compressed my Mattoc 100mm from full extension overnight, in 12 hours it sucked down 10mm, since it was static, no oil could be sucked in etc. no pressure was trapped in the lowers.
    So... Since it had 70h of riding on it anyway, I took my Mattoc apart, unfortunately the main air seal is in mint condition, didn't have any debris stuck on or under, the internal stanchion is not scratched either (no that it should matter, with the oil and grease running inside, it shouldn't be able to leak unless they ran out with small scratches anyway) so all that remains is the poppet valve itself, I was unable to take it apart as the bottom unscrewed, not the top (I don't have clamp blocks), there might be some debris stuck in there (I was careless with cleanliness of my pump) or a toast o-ring seal, anyway, I bet on the debris (hope remains), few days ago I flushed it from the inside (put high pressure in and release it rapidly several times), did nothing apparently, now I put some solvent in the shaft and pushed it through at high pressure with my floor pump, if that doesn't help, I don't know what to do apart from checking the extension every 2 rides or so :/ What really sucks about this situation is that it's hard to find good pressure setting this way, as every ride has a bit different spring balance...
    One good thing I saw was that the low friction seals do a really impressive job, 70h of hard riding in dusty conditions, and to my eye all the oil remains in the lowers, the sponges are still properly moist and most importantly- everything is perfectly clean! (unlike with Fox and RS low friction seals) Even the grease I put on the seals is still there, perfectly clean, that tells me 200h (don't know what Manitou recommend) service intervals should no issue at all, remains to see if they last as long as the old ones did (had a 10yo Skareb with factory seals still running clean)
    As for air spring, again with my eye I can't say any slick honey escaped, so it indeed is the best grease to use on suspension, everything was coated with it inside, as if some of it separated into oil (probably did), I'm digging it :)
  • 10-27-2019
    CS645
    I wonder if the next "Mattoc" will go 35mm. If you're going to do a new chassis to safe weight you can just as well up the diameter to increase stiffness some want and increase the room for increased negative air volume. And then you of course have the marketing advantage of "bigger is better".

    Withh the Mezzer at 37mm I could see it happen.
  • 10-27-2019
    piciu256
    After service, its still leaking air into negative
    Does anyone have the oring dimensions or at least photos of the poppet valve internals? Is wood a good material for clamp blocks to hold the air shaft? Is there anything to be aware off apart from small spring flying? With everything in check, all that remains is the poppet valve being toast, might it be cause I'm using the 4mm hex key to undo the stanchions? Could I have pushed it too far up and mangled the seal?
  • 10-29-2019
    Curveball
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    I just pulled up the service manual for the Mattoc Comp.
    https://manitoumtb.com/wp-content/up...l-Change-1.pdf

    The air spring side has a top cap at the crown and another one on the bottom of the leg. The top cap is for the volume adjust system and requires a 24mm socket to remove, you probably won't need to remove it unless you want to adjust the air spring volume. The bottom one is where you add & remove air, attach air pump, inflate as needed, make sure fork is fully extended, remove air pump.

    Thanks much for the information. I didn't even notice the wrench flats on the top cap in my dark garage.

    The initial ride on the mellow local trails indicates that it's a pretty nice fork. I have no doubt that it's significantly better than the RockShox forks in this price range.
  • 10-31-2019
    BikesandWind
    My Mattoc comp has developed a similar knock that is noticeable at stand still. What did it end up being. Lachman - did Wiggle cover it under warranty? Cheers
  • 10-31-2019
    Crankyanken
    Does anyone know if you can put Mattoc Pro parts (MC2 damper, rebound, IRT) onto the Mattoc comp?