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Thread: Manitou Mattoc

  1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The difference in oil height between the lower legs installed and the shaft at max extension is so minor it doesn't matter. As long as you can fully compress the damper shaft by hand. You're good.
    So you recommend putting in the damper oil, cycling the rod, to remove air, then setting the oil height and reinstalling the damper assembly before reinstalling the lowers? That would make things so much easier.

  2. #3802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    So you recommend putting in the damper oil, cycling the rod, to remove air, then setting the oil height and reinstalling the damper assembly before reinstalling the lowers? That would make things so much easier.
    Yes and it's soo much easier.

    When you have the lowers off (for maintenance) a simple push on the damper rod to full depth will let you know if that's good.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  3. #3803
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    So Dougal. What spring frequency have you found works best? I haven't seen you give an answer before. You seem to just refer people to your website.

  4. #3804
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoolGrandWizardLuke View Post
    So Dougal. What spring frequency have you found works best? I haven't seen you give an answer before. You seem to just refer people to your website.
    The frequency you want becomes obvious and depends on your expectations. Harder chargers want higher frequency and more relaxed riders want lower.

    If you want numbers. 0.8-2 Hz.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  5. #3805
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    Something that I think would be interesting to add to this thread or another one might be peoples settings for much easier initial starting points for people.
    Rider Weight : 72kg (159lbs) without any gear.
    Bike : giant trance 2017
    Version: pro 3 boost 2018
    Trave: 160mm
    Main Pressure : 60
    IRT Pressure : 90
    LSC : lowest
    HSC : one click from full open
    Rebound : 3-4 clicks from full open

    I am still dialing it in. I love the linearity of this forks air spring with IRT! I can bump the main presure up and still use all travel on bigger hits. And those rare occasions that would produce bottom out are taken care of HBO.

    Tokens and excessive progressivity are so last year!

  6. #3806
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    Quote Originally Posted by s-master View Post
    Rider Weight : 72kg (159lbs) without any gear.
    Bike : giant trance 2017
    Version: pro 3 boost 2018
    Trave: 160mm
    Main Pressure : 60
    IRT Pressure : 90
    LSC : lowest
    HSC : one click from full open
    Rebound : 3-4 clicks from full open

    I am still dialing it in. I love the linearity of this forks air spring with IRT! I can bump the main presure up and still use all travel on bigger hits. And those rare occasions that would produce bottom out are taken care of HBO.

    Tokens and excessive progressivity are so last year!

    HOW sensitive is the pro 3 boost? Can you feel much stiction, when pressing on the fork? Have you tested a new Lyrik or so and can compare?

  7. #3807
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    HOW sensitive is the pro 3 boost? Can you feel much stiction, when pressing on the fork? Have you tested a new Lyrik or so and can compare?
    You should not feel stiction. If you do the bushings need sized.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  8. #3808
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    What travel are you setting it at? For your reference ,I am 140 lbs running 140mm with IRT.

    My settings are around 30 to 35 main air, 50 to 55 IRT, two clicks rebound, HBO open or +1, LSC +2 to +4


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Took it out for the first time today. I am at 160mm. I ran it at 40psi (based on what the chart from Manitou says and also measured sag ...)

    It felt harsh. Really harsh. I went to a local trail that isn't gnarly. Just testing it over embedded rocks, roots, etc. I have a new fork and shock and have never set suspension by myself before.

    Riding over a root felt like when a boat hits a wave or a wake? Front end goes up and down, and then back end goes up and down (shock is a Mcleod). Thinking pressure is too high for both.

    If you are running at 30-35 at 140mm, perhaps I need to be even lower, at 160mm? Is that possible? I'm not running IRT, does IRT allow the main pressure to be ran differently or is it the same?

  9. #3809
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    Loving my new Mattoc Pro

    Just got a Mattoc Pro 2 with IRT installed on my 2018 Trek Fuel EX8. I weigh 175 lbs and set main spring at 80 psi, IRt at 110 psi. HSC, HBO and Rebound all at middle setting. I am loving this Fork and recommend it to any and all who want one of the best, highly adjustable, predictable Forks for trail or enduro. This is way under rated and known and should be considered anytime over Fox, RS, DVO etc.

  10. #3810
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Took it out for the first time today. I am at 160mm. I ran it at 40psi (based on what the chart from Manitou says and also measured sag ...)

    It felt harsh. Really harsh. I went to a local trail that isn't gnarly. Just testing it over embedded rocks, roots, etc. I have a new fork and shock and have never set suspension by myself before.

    Riding over a root felt like when a boat hits a wave or a wake? Front end goes up and down, and then back end goes up and down (shock is a Mcleod). Thinking pressure is too high for both.

    If you are running at 30-35 at 140mm, perhaps I need to be even lower, at 160mm? Is that possible? I'm not running IRT, does IRT allow the main pressure to be ran differently or is it the same?
    I'm not sure you can go much lighter on the air springs. What's the fork leg say for 140 pounds?

    You could be overdamped. What are your settings for HBO, lsc and hsc?

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

  11. #3811
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I'm not sure you can go much lighter on the air springs. What's the fork leg say for 140 pounds?

    You could be overdamped. What are your settings for HBO, lsc and hsc?

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    42. But I goofed. Damn I have to say, as a neophyte Manitou's manual isn't always so clear. I think I messed up my rebound damping. Pike had a turtle and a rabbit. So easy. I thought the negative sign was ... the turtle. I think it's the hare/rabbit right? and the plus sign is full damping and slow rebound ...

  12. #3812
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    42. But I goofed. Damn I have to say, as a neophyte Manitou's manual isn't always so clear. I think I messed up my rebound damping. Pike had a turtle and a rabbit. So easy. I thought the negative sign was ... the turtle. I think it's the hare/rabbit right? and the plus sign is full damping and slow rebound ...
    Turn the rebound knob all the way out. That's fast. All the way in is slow.

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  13. #3813
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    Yeah I figured it out. So simple. One side is super fast rebound, and the other side is super slow.

    Turns out, according to Dougal's test, I didn't need that much damping. Going to try 3 clicks from open tomorrow at a rougher trail.

  14. #3814
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Yeah I figured it out. So simple. One side is super fast rebound, and the other side is super slow.

    Turns out, according to Dougal's test, I didn't need that much damping. Going to try 3 clicks from open tomorrow at a rougher trail.
    also set your compression damping knobs to full open as well (HSC, LSC and HBO) to start.

    You can likely run less pressure in the fork. After my last ride Im running 40 in the main and 70 in the IRT. I weigh 235 or so geared up... 150mm travel.

    BUT, test out different pressures and see what you like.

  15. #3815
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    Ok, the settings and comments are giving me perspective on my Mattoc setup.
    As I posted recently, I've been running IRT low 30psi, main low 20psi, but only using ~130 out of 150mm max travel, and it's harsh at speed. LSC, HSC, HBO and Rebound all the way out, riding weight ~160lbs. The fork feels supple at lower speeds but if I use any LSC it's harsh on the rough stuff, so does it sound like too much HSC?

    Dougal, if I understand your upgrade, it's a higher flow *rebound* piston, and not modifying the compression damper?

    I've got a gen 1 Expert, so what are my options, aside from buying a Pro2 damper? Is it worth re-shimming the HSC stack?

  16. #3816
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    Dougal, if I understand your upgrade, it's a higher flow *rebound* piston, and not modifying the compression damper?
    The rebound piston serves two damping functions. Rebound damping and compression mid-valve. It is the mid-valve that is high-flow.

    This alters the damping curves, especially at high shaft speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    I've got a gen 1 Expert, so what are my options, aside from buying a Pro2 damper? Is it worth re-shimming the HSC stack?
    The Pro damper is better than the Expert at high shaft speeds because the rod is a bigger proportion so oil flow through the piston is lower. The Pro is better again with my piston upgrade.

    Check which shim stack you have in your compression damper.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  17. #3817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The rebound piston serves two damping functions. Rebound damping and compression mid-valve. It is the mid-valve that is high-flow.

    This alters the damping curves, especially at high shaft speeds.



    The Pro damper is better than the Expert at high shaft speeds because the rod is a bigger proportion so oil flow through the piston is lower. The Pro is better again with my piston upgrade.

    Check which shim stack you have in your compression damper.
    Shims are 21mm diameter, so you mean thickness?
    Anything to watch for when the end bolt is removed?

  18. #3818
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    Shims are 21mm diameter, so you mean thickness?
    Anything to watch for when the end bolt is removed?
    there are two layers of shims in a MC^2 damper. Lower fixed shims and upper which are preloaded by the HSC dial.

    Just make sure the whole shaft doesn't unscrew from the top-cap. You may need to hold the shaft with a wrench, it has flats for that.
    If the shaft comes out the top-cap you've got to reassemble it the long way around.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  19. #3819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    there are two layers of shims in a MC^2 damper. Lower fixed shims and upper which are preloaded by the HSC dial.

    Just make sure the whole shaft doesn't unscrew from the top-cap. You may need to hold the shaft with a wrench, it has flats for that.
    If the shaft comes out the top-cap you've got to reassemble it the long way around.
    Is your improved piston a better rebound piston or the compression piston and what did you change?

  20. #3820
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Is your improved piston a better rebound piston or the compression piston and what did you change?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The rebound piston serves two damping functions. Rebound damping and compression mid-valve. It is the mid-valve that is now high-flow.

    This alters the damping curves, especially at high shaft speeds.
    See above.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  21. #3821
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    Need help diagnosing an issue. Backstory: Fork has been riding like garbage, like a jackhammer, can hold onto the bike. Turns out the damper became pressurized, no big deal. Change out fluid. Could I just have cracked the damper open to release the pressure?

    Since I had the fork open, I guess I got curious and disassemble the cartridge rebound damper assembly. All looks good, reassemble. Put damper back together. Now, when I cycle the damper, there is an audible noise and feel when the HBO enters the compression damper assemble. Wasnt there before. Disassemble....looks like the HBO is off-center a bit within the rebound damper assembly. Somehow something got bent...disassemble, nothing looks perceptibly bent.

    I am wondering if maybe the threaded nipple (dont know what its called) that the HBO plunger threads onto is bent possibly? Any ideas/suggestions/tips? THanks

  22. #3822
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    I can't answer hardly any of that, except for the damper pressurization.

    Yes, you can leave the fork fully installed on the bike, put it on a workstand with the fork totally vertical and remove the damper cover. While you have it open, check the damper oil height.

    You can't do this on the ground because the fork isn't level and it will sag.

  23. #3823
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    also set your compression damping knobs to full open as well (HSC, LSC and HBO) to start.

    You can likely run less pressure in the fork. After my last ride Im running 40 in the main and 70 in the IRT. I weigh 235 or so geared up... 150mm travel.

    BUT, test out different pressures and see what you like.
    Ok it ran better for sure. Pressure was only slightly lower at 38, 3 clicks of rebound damping added. I noticed my front fork didn't dive at all when coming down a rock onto flat (no jump, so slow speed going over obstacles and 3-4 foot sized rocks onto flats or downhill). High speed chatter was improved.Low speed over small rocks and roots were better. Moderate speed over those same rocks,especially square hits, still rocked me up a little though. Gotta figure out how to play around with settings.

  24. #3824
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    Need help diagnosing an issue. Backstory: Fork has been riding like garbage, like a jackhammer, can hold onto the bike. Turns out the damper became pressurized, no big deal. Change out fluid. Could I just have cracked the damper open to release the pressure?

    Since I had the fork open, I guess I got curious and disassemble the cartridge rebound damper assembly. All looks good, reassemble. Put damper back together. Now, when I cycle the damper, there is an audible noise and feel when the HBO enters the compression damper assemble. Wasnt there before. Disassemble....looks like the HBO is off-center a bit within the rebound damper assembly. Somehow something got bent...disassemble, nothing looks perceptibly bent.

    I am wondering if maybe the threaded nipple (dont know what its called) that the HBO plunger threads onto is bent possibly? Any ideas/suggestions/tips? THanks
    You will always be able to feel the HBO engage. It is close fitting metal parts.

    Foaming is from air coming in via the lower shaft seal on fast hits. I replace those 10x15x4mm lip seals with 10x3mm metric orings. That greatly reduces the foaming and my high flow pistons in combination stop it completely.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  25. #3825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    there are two layers of shims in a MC^2 damper. Lower fixed shims and upper which are preloaded by the HSC dial.

    Just make sure the whole shaft doesn't unscrew from the top-cap. You may need to hold the shaft with a wrench, it has flats for that.
    If the shaft comes out the top-cap you've got to reassemble it the long way around.
    Below the piston the bottom nut holds on a spring and check-shim? (25x10x0.16mm) with a small spring inside below a ball bearing.
    On top of the piston (1 each):
    17.5x8x0.1mm (face shim?)
    11x8x0.25mm
    21x10x0.21mm (I assume this is the preloaded shim)
    12x10x0.21mm
    I don't know what the parts above the shim are called, there's a shuttle-like thing with a couple ball bearings (I assume preload assembly), then a large shim just below the foam "plug".
    Do you have (or know where I can access) an expanded diagram that shows all the parts, with names?

    The face shim is only 0.1mm thick, so is the 21mm shim causing my spiking? The compression holes in the piston are pretty small...

  26. #3826
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    Below the piston the bottom nut holds on a spring and check-shim? (25x10x0.16mm) with a small spring inside below a ball bearing.
    On top of the piston (1 each):
    17.5x8x0.1mm (face shim?)
    11x8x0.25mm
    21x10x0.21mm (I assume this is the preloaded shim)
    12x10x0.21mm
    I don't know what the parts above the shim are called, there's a shuttle-like thing with a couple ball bearings (I assume preload assembly), then a large shim just below the foam "plug".
    Do you have (or know where I can access) an expanded diagram that shows all the parts, with names?

    The face shim is only 0.1mm thick, so is the 21mm shim causing my spiking? The compression holes in the piston are pretty small...
    Take out the 12x10x0.2mm.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  27. #3827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    See above.
    1.Do you sell the piston incl. The fitting shimstack or do I have to use the old stack?
    2.How much is the piston incl. Shipping to Germany?
    3.which shim of the original shimstack of the mattoc 2 do I have to remove from the compression piston to soften mid to large sized high speed events?
    4.if I would buy a mattoc 3 boost, could I still use your reboundpiston there?

  28. #3828
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    1.Do you sell the piston incl. The fitting shimstack or do I have to use the old stack?
    2.How much is the piston incl. Shipping to Germany?
    3.which shim of the original shimstack of the mattoc 2 do I have to remove from the compression piston to soften mid to large sized high speed events?
    4.if I would buy a mattoc 3 boost, could I still use your reboundpiston there?
    1. The piston works with your existing shim stack.
    2. The piston is $NZD125 less GST for export. At todays exchange that would be ~ 63 Euro plus post. The webstore will calculate shipping for you in the cart before you get to payment.
    3. There were various combinations of shim stack. I am running the one with just a single shim on the top. I'm not sure right now what Mattoc 2 came with. Maybe similar to FSR-XC above.
    4. Absolutely. It fits all Pro level Mattoc/Magnum/Mastodon/Machete etc.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  29. #3829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    See above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    1. The piston works with your existing shim stack.
    2. The piston is $NZD125 less GST for export. At todays exchange that would be ~ 63 Euro plus post. The webstore will calculate shipping for you in the cart before you get to payment.
    3. There were various combinations of shim stack. I am running the one with just a single shim on the top. I'm not sure right now what Mattoc 2 came with. Maybe similar to FSR-XC above.
    4. Absolutely. It fits all Pro level Mattoc/Magnum/Mastodon/Machete etc.
    Do you know if the upcoming 29er LT fork does already have an improved rebound piston or would it still show performance benefits to transduce this piston from the mattoc to the new fork when I change over to 29?

  30. #3830
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Do you know if the upcoming 29er LT fork does already have an improved rebound piston or would it still show performance benefits to transduce this piston from the mattoc to the new fork when I change over to 29?
    I'm not sure what new fork you are referring to, but dont expect the stock piston to to change.

  31. #3831
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Do you know if the upcoming 29er LT fork does already have an improved rebound piston or would it still show performance benefits to transduce this piston from the mattoc to the new fork when I change over to 29?

    Er, LT 29er? What you talking about willis?
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  32. #3832
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I'm not sure what new fork you are referring to, but dont expect the stock piston to to change.
    Of course there will be a 29er LT fork. That is the most Logic thing. They have great technology already good Enduro fork... And if they did not, they would be the only company without one. Even dt and x fusion finally have one. I am certain as death is a part of live there is something in the works ;-)

  33. #3833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Er, LT 29er? What you talking about willis?
    If Manitou had a 160mm 29er fork I would be riding Manitou on my upcoming build. Instead, I had to go with a Fox 36 and am planning on dropping an Avalanche damper in it. Get on it, Manitou!


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  34. #3834
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Of course there will be a 29er LT fork. That is the most Logic thing. They have great technology already good Enduro fork... And if they did not, they would be the only company without one. Even dt and x fusion finally have one. I am certain as death is a part of live there is something in the works ;-)
    I will only say this: if you are trying to build something anytime soon, buy something else.

  35. #3835
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I will only say this: if you are trying to build something anytime soon, buy something else.
    That is really sad. Hope at least, it will be great, when it comes out.

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    Is it somehow possible to enlarge the negative spring for better initial movement and a better spring curve to get it more coil like even without irt?

  37. #3837
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    Does the mattoc negative spring actually use the volume inside the rod as Rock shox debon air does? If no, then this should be a possibility, isnt it?

  38. #3838
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Do you know if the upcoming 29er LT fork does already have an improved rebound piston or would it still show performance benefits to transduce this piston from the mattoc to the new fork when I change over to 29?
    I don't know and if I did know I wouldn't be able to say anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by inonjoey View Post
    If Manitou had a 160mm 29er fork I would be riding Manitou on my upcoming build. Instead, I had to go with a Fox 36 and am planning on dropping an Avalanche damper in it. Get on it, Manitou!
    You can get 150mm from a Mattoc 29 Boost. I know it's not 160mm, but it's close.

    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Is it somehow possible to enlarge the negative spring for better initial movement and a better spring curve to get it more coil like even without irt?
    IRT is the ticket. Single chamber air is always a compromise even with big negative volume.

    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Does the mattoc negative spring actually use the volume inside the rod as Rock shox debon air does? If no, then this should be a possibility, isnt it?
    No it doesn't and it can't because the valve which sets pos/neg chamber pressure is at the top of the rod just below the piston.

    The Mattoc stanchions (and air chambers) are however 40mm longer than the Pike. I experimented a little with bigger negative (spacing the piston higher) but ultimately IRT does better than the results I had there. It did take me a while to find good IRT settings. I hated the original 40/80psi but at 40/60psi I've been very happy.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  39. #3839
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    I tried to enlarge mattoc negative chamber. Its impossible cuz stanchion is tapered and mattoc pro 2 at 160mm at full bottom out almost touch the taper or you have to produce something like luftkappe. IMO mattoc spring curve is somehow digressive. Stiffer at the beggining and then flat as fcuk. IRT doesnt helped. If somebody rides bigger stuff its too easy to bottom even with maxed HBO. So you bottoms or have too stiff initial spring. I also have Pike RCT3 160mm with luftkappe (also charger midvalve float increased) and initial stroke is coil like. Why mattoc cant have the same initial feeling? I know this question have no answer

  40. #3840
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    I tried to enlarge mattoc negative chamber. Its impossible cuz stanchion is tapered and mattoc pro 2 at 160mm at full bottom out almost touch the taper or you have to produce something like luftkappe. IMO mattoc spring curve is somehow digressive. Stiffer at the beggining and then flat as fcuk. IRT doesnt helped. If somebody rides bigger stuff its too easy to bottom even with maxed HBO. So you bottoms or have too stiff initial spring. I also have Pike RCT3 160mm with luftkappe (also charger midvalve float increased) and initial stroke is coil like. Why mattoc cant have the same initial feeling? I know this question have no answer
    Honestly, if you can't use the IRT or HBO to limit bottom out, you have some problem.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  41. #3841
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    I tried to enlarge mattoc negative chamber. Its impossible cuz stanchion is tapered and mattoc pro 2 at 160mm at full bottom out almost touch the taper or you have to produce something like luftkappe. IMO mattoc spring curve is somehow digressive. Stiffer at the beggining and then flat as fcuk. IRT doesnt helped. If somebody rides bigger stuff its too easy to bottom even with maxed HBO. So you bottoms or have too stiff initial spring. I also have Pike RCT3 160mm with luftkappe (also charger midvalve float increased) and initial stroke is coil like. Why mattoc cant have the same initial feeling? I know this question have no answer
    The way the HBO system works, it will not limit the total travel used. It works solely on shaft speed. Once it slows the shaft speeds down to the point you have it set it, it becomes ineffective and allies you to use full travel. What it does is nake you give the rubber bottom out bumper a kiss rather than slam into.

    As for IRT, there is not many spring curves it cant achieve. Not only can you mess with pressures and gaps between the two pressures, but you can also mess with each chambers volume to fine tune how they interact with each other. That's for people looking to fine tune only, most won't need it.

  42. #3842
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    My mattoc ended up with coil spring inside. Proper ratio between initual supplenes and overal stiffnes. Nothing to complaint about the damper. Unfortunately its air spring didnt make me happy.

  43. #3843
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    My new mattoc is AMAZING, the best fork i ever owned and i have a diamond too.
    I have IRT and new seals, just came back from 2 days in bike Park and i still can't believe how good it is at absorbing big hits.

    Only thing i don't really like is the first 1-2 cm in travel, it seems to sit at the sag suddenly when i go on the bike and it doesn't it progressively but rather suddenly, like there is gap to fill.
    Maybe i need to raise main chamber pressure? I am 80 kg and i have 50 PSI main 85 PSI IRT.

  44. #3844
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    Connect pump and strech fork. May it should equalize.

  45. #3845
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    After doing the 27.5 to 26 conversion and reduce travel to 140 I was about to install the crown race today and noticed that the stanchions looked suspiciously short. Sure enough they measure 130 fully extended.

    What did I do wrong now?

  46. #3846
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Connect pump and strech fork. May it should equalize.
    Yes i did, it has full travel without weight, it's just the first 1 cm that isn't smooth off the top.

  47. #3847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    After doing the 27.5 to 26 conversion and reduce travel to 140 I was about to install the crown race today and noticed that the stanchions looked suspiciously short. Sure enough they measure 130 fully extended.

    What did I do wrong now?
    Try what nikon suggested above (except he wasn't directing that at your issue). The positive and negative chambers equalize when the shock pump is threaded on. If you pumped air in and removed the pump while the fork wasn't fully extended it'll stay that way. May not be the answer, but would be the easiest thing to check.

  48. #3848
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    I am trying to figure out if any of the Manitou Forks will work for me, any help much appreciated.

    Currently running a 2016 Fox Fit4 34 150mm 27.5+ (boost).

    Will the Mattocs or Magnum work, any way to adjust travel to 150? I see that some places have last years Magnum listed at 120mm do these adjust out to 140mm (maybe 150?)? Thanks for the help. Trying to figure out my options before sending in my Fox Fork for a tuning, I hate having to pay $300 to get someone to change out a shim and add some lighter weight oil.

  49. #3849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    After doing the 27.5 to 26 conversion and reduce travel to 140 I was about to install the crown race today and noticed that the stanchions looked suspiciously short. Sure enough they measure 130 fully extended.

    What did I do wrong now?
    Did you leave the plastic spacers on the bottom of the air or damper shaft?
    I believe the diagram says to remove those for 26"

    See:
    Manitou Mattoc - Page 19- Mtbr.com

  50. #3850
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    Quote Originally Posted by acedeuce802 View Post
    Try what nikon suggested above (except he wasn't directing that at your issue). The positive and negative chambers equalize when the shock pump is threaded on. If you pumped air in and removed the pump while the fork wasn't fully extended it'll stay that way. May not be the answer, but would be the easiest thing to check.
    Thanks! This is my first dual air fork...still climbing the learning curve.

  51. #3851
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    I was doing the full, 1 year maintenance on my Mattoc 2 Pro and I noticed something odd- the rebound damper doesn't have a wider portion with a seal at the top (left side of the image) of it like every picture of the Mattoc damper I've seen so far. None of the pictures in all the different service guides look like my rebound damper.

    The damper has always worked great, just wondered if anyone knows why mine looks different? It even has threading at the top of it, but nothing is threaded to it, of course.



    Manitou Mattoc-vzbfdup.jpg

  52. #3852
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    I was doing the full, 1 year maintenance on my Mattoc 2 Pro and I noticed something odd- the rebound damper doesn't have a wider portion with a seal at the top (left side of the image) of it like every picture of the Mattoc damper I've seen so far. None of the pictures in all the different service guides look like my rebound damper.

    The damper has always worked great, just wondered if anyone knows why mine looks different? It even has threading at the top of it, but nothing is threaded to it, of course.



    Click image for larger version. 

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    So no top flange stuck in the damper stanchion?

    Without it you'll just be carrying more oil volume. But it's a wierd omission.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  53. #3853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    So no top flange stuck in the damper stanchion?

    Without it you'll just be carrying more oil volume. But it's a wierd omission.
    I didn't get a photo of the inside of the stanchion but there is a shelf in there similar to the air Spring side of a MARS air spring like in my Manitou minute pro Fork. I thought it might be that top flange as well so I pushed down on it with a dowel and it wasn't moving at all. Pretty sure it was glued or welded or whatever into the inside of the stanchion. I guess it's possible that there is a top flange that had come loose and is sitting just under that little shelf but it looked to just be one piece.

    As far as I could tell there wasn't a bunch of extra damper oil around the outside of the rebound assembly because nothing came out when I pulled the assembly out of the stanchion. And then when refilling the oil it definitely didn't seem like it took a ton of oil, only the amount that would be required to fill up the inside of the rebound damper.

    I guess it's time to email Manitou!

  54. #3854
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    I didn't get a photo of the inside of the stanchion but there is a shelf in there similar to the air Spring side of a MARS air spring like in my Manitou minute pro Fork. I thought it might be that top flange as well so I pushed down on it with a dowel and it wasn't moving at all. Pretty sure it was glued or welded or whatever into the inside of the stanchion. I guess it's possible that there is a top flange that had come loose and is sitting just under that little shelf but it looked to just be one piece.

    As far as I could tell there wasn't a bunch of extra damper oil around the outside of the rebound assembly because nothing came out when I pulled the assembly out of the stanchion. And then when refilling the oil it definitely didn't seem like it took a ton of oil, only the amount that would be required to fill up the inside of the rebound damper.

    I guess it's time to email Manitou!
    That shelf is the unscrewed end of your rebound damper cartridge tube. Push it out the bottom and screw it back on.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  55. #3855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That shelf is the unscrewed end of your rebound damper cartridge tube. Push it out the bottom and screw it back on.
    Dangit! I was afraid of damaging the shelf by pushing too hard on it, i guess I should have pushed harder, or at least posted this before I put the whole fork back together. Ugh.

    I really appreciate the response, Dougal, you saved me from potentially damaging the fork.

    Guess I'm riding my other bike tomorrow

  56. #3856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I don't know and if I did know I wouldn't be able to say anything.



    You can get 150mm from a Mattoc 29 Boost. I know it's not 160mm, but it's close.



    IRT is the ticket. Single chamber air is always a compromise even with big negative volume.



    No it doesn't and it can't because the valve which sets pos/neg chamber pressure is at the top of the rod just below the piston.

    The Mattoc stanchions (and air chambers) are however 40mm longer than the Pike. I experimented a little with bigger negative (spacing the piston higher) but ultimately IRT does better than the results I had there. It did take me a while to find good IRT settings. I hated the original 40/80psi but at 40/60psi I've been very happy.
    OK,

    1.how do I get the 150mm travel out of it?

    2.why not add the larger negative air to the irt instead of one or the other?

  57. #3857
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    OK,

    1.how do I get the 150mm travel out of it?

    2.why not add the larger negative air to the irt instead of one or the other?
    1. Top out bumper modification. It's not supported by Manitou but it does work and is safe.
    2. ? IRT is in the positive space where the stanchion tapers to a smaller ID. You can't use that for negative.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  58. #3858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    1. Top out bumper modification. It's not supported by Manitou but it does work and is safe.
    2. ? IRT is in the positive space where the stanchion tapers to a smaller ID. You can't use that for negative.
    Sorry not TO, I meant AND the irt

  59. #3859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    1. Top out bumper modification. It's not supported by Manitou but it does work and is safe.
    2. ? IRT is in the positive space where the stanchion tapers to a smaller ID. You can't use that for negative.
    OK, than for final decision a question referring to stiffness if I would adjust it to 150mm of travel.
    I own a mattoc pro 2,thus non boost, and an x fusion metric with 36mm stanchions. I weigh around 87 kilos as God created meso I have one of the really flex forks and the stiffest single crown fork that is in the market in the moment. The regular mattoc is too flexy for my liking. The massive stiffness of the Metric hlr is not really needed. A tiny but more comfort would be OK.
    I suppose it is much stiffer than the regular mattoc as it has more flesh on the bridge and the crown.

    So how stiff is the mattoc pro 27.5+/29 150 in comparison to a pike or Lyrik boost, to which one is it similar?

  60. #3860
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    Mine showed up last night! It's a good looking fork.

    It's incredibly smooth right out of the box.

  61. #3861
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    Hi guys, my apologies as i am sure this has been done to death. I have just ordered a set of non boost Mattoc pro 2 forks. I had a set of MRP stages before which were awesome but i killed them at Fort William. Before i install them i want to drop the lowers to make sure they have enough oil plus the check the damper for the same. I have read on here that 5w40 synthetic is the bath oil?? but i cant find the correct oil for the damper. I live in the uk if that makes any difference. Also if anyone has the part number for the low friction seals i would be much obliged.

    Thanks all :-)

  62. #3862
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    Looks like it's calling for maxima 5wt, which is rated 15.9 [email protected]

    You can use any fork damper oil rated around 15, which is extremely common these days. Any decent bike shop will have an appropriate fluid.

    Fox gold works well instead of 5w40, or just use the maxima 5w40. Or supergliss if you can find it.

  63. #3863
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    Also, got my first ride in!

    This thing is shockingly well damped in compression. It's easy to setup and just so, so good. I have an expert, and need to work on setting rebound. HSR doesn't feel great. Worst case, it looks like the pro used a different rebound assembly that swaps in and works better?

    The spring is insanely good. I don't even have IRT. I tried 70psi and it was too firm, but it still felt incredible. 65 or maybe 60psi is probably where I'll end up, as I used about 100mm out of 160.

    My mattoc at 160 isn't as stiff as my sweep at 140, but that's getting silly and nitpicking.

  64. #3864
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    Yep this Fork is so good and I hope Manitou can find a way to reach more so they wil consider this when bike owners upgrade or a bike mfr. offers it for options instead of the two big names. I switched from a Fox Rythm and glad I didnt waste time or money upgrading to a more expensive Fox or RS fork.

  65. #3865
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactheknife View Post
    Hi guys, my apologies as i am sure this has been done to death. I have just ordered a set of non boost Mattoc pro 2 forks. I had a set of MRP stages before which were awesome but i killed them at Fort William. Before i install them i want to drop the lowers to make sure they have enough oil plus the check the damper for the same. I have read on here that 5w40 synthetic is the bath oil?? but i cant find the correct oil for the damper. I live in the uk if that makes any difference. Also if anyone has the part number for the low friction seals i would be much obliged.

    Thanks all :-)
    The Semibath is a 5W40 by another company that starts with M. There are many fluids that work, just not as well over such a wide temp range.
    The Fully Synthetic we sell is a very close relation and we'll change to the actual semi-bath spec when our current stash is gone.
    Motorex Supergliss is a better summer lube but gets thick enough to slow the fork down below 0C.

    Low friction seals are 141-34000: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastodo...t-manitou.html

    Damper oil is 15 cSt. Stock is Maxima 5wt. We install Motorex 2.5wt for general use and a "hot oil pink" for those really thrashing them and/or riding in wide temperature ranges.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  66. #3866
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    Cheers guys, sourced the lube from the UK. Dougal i just put an order in with yourself for those seals. Much appreciated. This thread is a goldmine of information.

  67. #3867
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    Great thread here, a real gold mine of info, credit to you all.

    I'm a new owner, bought the mattoc pro 2 when crc were doing them for 300, I just could not say no to that having read lots of glowing reviews.

    I'd like to know how responsive your LSC control is? For me, one extreme to the other on the dial (5 clicks) and there is no notable difference. I'm compressing by letting all my weight go on the bars in a slowish action.

    Cheers

  68. #3868
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookiem View Post
    Great thread here, a real gold mine of info, credit to you all.

    I'm a new owner, bought the mattoc pro 2 when crc were doing them for 300, I just could not say no to that having read lots of glowing reviews.

    I'd like to know how responsive your LSC control is? For me, one extreme to the other on the dial (5 clicks) and there is no notable difference. I'm compressing by letting all my weight go on the bars in a slowish action.

    Cheers
    The lsc range is set by the hsc. If the hsc is set full open, the lsc adjuster has only a small effect on the overall damping and it will only be noticable on the trail, and only if you are sensitive to small changes. This is the case because the hsc shims are flowing oil easily and closing the small lsc port has a minimal effect on overall oil flow.

    If you add hsc, therefore limiting the oil flow through the shim stack, the lsc adjuster becomes more noticeable and useful. This set up allows users to fine tune to their liking without the need to open up the fork.

    This set up is superior to other brands because its designed for practical use, not the parking lot push test. Most brands tune their shim stacks to stiff and/or heavily preloaded to make the adjusters work well in the push test. When those products hit the trail, they perform poorly as they cant handle oil flow correctly on high shaft speed impacts.

  69. #3869
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    The lsc range is set by the hsc. If the hsc is set full open, the lsc adjuster has only a small effect on the overall damping and it will only be noticable on the trail, and only if you are sensitive to small changes. This is the case because the hsc shims are flowing oil easily and closing the small lsc port has a minimal effect on overall oil flow.

    If you add hsc, therefore limiting the oil flow through the shim stack, the lsc adjuster becomes more noticeable and useful. This set up allows users to fine tune to their liking without the need to open up the fork.

    This set up is superior to other brands because its designed for practical use, not the parking lot push test. Most brands tune their shim stacks to stiff and/or heavily preloaded to make the adjusters work well in the push test. When those products hit the trail, they perform poorly as they cant handle oil flow correctly on high shaft speed impacts.

    Brilliant. Thanks Mullen, I'll go have a play

  70. #3870
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    Installed the low friction seals. It made me go back to Dougal's frequency setup and rethink what I was doing. Ended up fixing my shock setup too.

    Had the seals sitting here, but knew I had a trip coming up and was waiting to install until closer to the time. Did it a couple weeks ago and definitely noticed it was different than the typical fresh service feel. Prior to this I had been using IRT to control mid and bottom out exclusively, full open LSC/HSC. That still works, but with the new seals it feels like I can again use the HSC/LSC to control the mid, brake dive, etc. Between that and the IRT, holy hell, it's damn near all one can ask of a fork. Throw is the HBO and you have just short of a custom tuned fork.

    Back to the shock. I switch between a DB IL an a an Ohlins TTX. Inline I have no issues with, it works, I can tune it to suit my needs. The TTX took me a year to wrap my head around, basically through my own stupidity. The builder set it up for me, the bike, riding style. Even came and tried a few different springs to get what I wanted. It was described as feeling like sofa..which it was. The only issue I had was pedal strikes from blowing through the mid (I think, still wrapping my head around what affects what and when in relation to HSC/LSC and when in the stroke). no bottoming, plush, rebound was good, but the mid wallowed and didn't support. This is on a Knolly Endorphin. Was told, and I have read several reports that LSC seems to not do much, and that was my finding as well. I really didn't even bother because changing it a few clicks this way or that didn't affect it. But after the Mattoc seal change and realizing how LSC affects HSC I decidied to go to town on LSC. The HSC is a set deal on the shock, with 3 settings so you are left with a rebound which you can defintely feel and a LSC which deems to do nothing, until you crank it far enough that it must choke or load the HSC enough that it can be felt. Within 2 clicks I had the mid support that was needed. Now there is a balance between F/R that I could only achieve with the DB IL, yet more plush off the top. No idea if the TTX runs a stack, needles, or how it works, but getting the mattoc even more plush yet supportive, and dialed made me search for how to get the coil to feel better. Evened opened the rebound a bit on both the Mattoc and TTX I think because the bike feels so balanced and controlled, it can be pushed harder/faster. I could be full of beans, but what I feel is what I feel, and what I feel is an awesome riding bike.

  71. #3871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Take out the 12x10x0.2mm.
    Thanks for that Dougal.
    I took out the 12x10x0.2mm shim, and have done 3 rides on it. Initial impression is the harshness is reduced, I'm noticing less arm pump on the same descents as before.
    But, not using any more travel - last ride (with plenty rocks and roots) only maxed at 125mm out of 150mm. Pressures currently at irt40/26psi.

    Would it make sense to further soften the shim stack so it will use a bit more travel on big hits without going any lower on pressures? Better to go thinner on the face shim, or the preloaded shim? Currently min LSC/HSC/HBO, so I can always firm things up later.

  72. #3872
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherwin24 View Post
    Back to the shock. I switch between a DB IL an a an Ohlins TTX. .
    Sounds like me exact setup. Mattoc 170mm on the front, TTX on the back. I even have a dead CC DB Inline too I think!!

  73. #3873
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    Yeah yeah yeah... Here is the the LT 29 er fork, like I said

    m.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-prototype-manitou-enduro-fork-and-sun-ringle-carbon-wheels-crankworx-whistler-2018.html[/url]


    Hope they kept at least a non adjustable HBO as in the mattoc comp

  74. #3874
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Yeah yeah yeah... Here is the the LT 29 er fork, like I said

    m.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-prototype-manitou-enduro-fork-and-sun-ringle-carbon-wheels-crankworx-whistler-2018.html[/url]


    Hope they kept at least a non adjustable HBO as in the mattoc comp
    Came here to post this, bit concerned with the dials on top of the damper No HBO would be a let down as that feature is great. Also much better cable routing. Looking forward to some more details.

  75. #3875
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Yeah yeah yeah... Here is the the LT 29 er fork, like I said

    m.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-prototype-manitou-enduro-fork-and-sun-ringle-carbon-wheels-crankworx-whistler-2018.html[/url]


    Hope they kept at least a non adjustable HBO as in the mattoc comp
    never said it didn't exist

  76. #3876
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Yeah yeah yeah... Here is the the LT 29 er fork, like I said

    m.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-prototype-manitou-enduro-fork-and-sun-ringle-carbon-wheels-crankworx-whistler-2018.html[/url]


    Hope they kept at least a non adjustable HBO as in the mattoc comp
    Cool. Here's the non mobile link:
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotte...tler-2018.html

    Manitou won't leave out HBO. They're not silly.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  77. #3877
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    Thanks for that Dougal.
    I took out the 12x10x0.2mm shim, and have done 3 rides on it. Initial impression is the harshness is reduced, I'm noticing less arm pump on the same descents as before.
    But, not using any more travel - last ride (with plenty rocks and roots) only maxed at 125mm out of 150mm. Pressures currently at irt40/26psi.

    Would it make sense to further soften the shim stack so it will use a bit more travel on big hits without going any lower on pressures? Better to go thinner on the face shim, or the preloaded shim? Currently min LSC/HSC/HBO, so I can always firm things up later.
    I suspect you've got an overfilled or foamed up damper restricting travel.

    Take the lower legs off and see if you can fully and easily compress the damper shaft.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  78. #3878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post

    Manitou won't leave out HBO. They're not silly.
    I feel the need to point out the article is showing a comp level fork. VTT is a ABS+ replacement, not a MC2 replacement. The MC2 damper will live on in the Pro version forks.

  79. #3879
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I feel the need to point out the article is showing a comp level fork. VTT is a ABS+ replacement, not a MC2 replacement. The MC2 damper will live on in the Pro version forks.
    Careful. You'll cause someone to have a seizure!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  80. #3880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Careful. You'll cause someone to have a seizure!
    I didn't think we could talk about any of this stuff, next thing I know it's all over pink bike.....

  81. #3881
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Yeah yeah yeah... Here is the the LT 29 er fork, like I said

    m.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-prototype-manitou-enduro-fork-and-sun-ringle-carbon-wheels-crankworx-whistler-2018.html[/url]


    Hope they kept at least a non adjustable HBO as in the mattoc comp

    Wow, great find. Looks like good updates to an already solid fork. I just hope they don't call it Travis!
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  82. #3882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I suspect you've got an overfilled or foamed up damper restricting travel.

    Take the lower legs off and see if you can fully and easily compress the damper shaft.
    FYI a couple of weeks ago I checked the damper level and removed a little oil because it was a bit high (currently 80mm).
    When I connect a pump to the main air valve I can pretty easily bottom the fork out, but if it's still worth removing the lowers to be sure, let me know.

    Also, when I had the compression damper apart to remove the preload shim, there were two ball bearings that dropped out. One came from the inside of the end bolt on the small spring, but I was half guessing the other one came from a slot in the main shim body, which is why I was asking for a diagram if anyone has one. After putting it back together, the HSC dial only clicks in some, but not all positions, so I'm assuming that ball affects the detents and it may not be exactly where it needs to be.
    Dougal do you know the Expert damper well enough to describe how to position the ball bearings when bolting it back together?

    thanks.

  83. #3883
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Careful. You'll cause someone to have a seizure!
    On Facebook manitou said to come to whistler and find their rider with the Slash to find out about the new stuff. Hopefully will not take long for complete tech data

  84. #3884
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    On Facebook manitou said to come to whistler and find their rider with the Slash to find out about the new stuff. Hopefully will not take long for complete tech data
    Yeah and hopefully this will be the new "long travel" version of the Mattoc for 27.5+/29 wheels. Seems to me that they already have a "long travel" version of the Mattoc strictly for 27.5 wheels and with 29ers becoming a hot topic again, well logic.

  85. #3885
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    Long story short version! Stuffed the rebound knob bolt on my Mattoc Expert and cannot get the old bolt out. . Still have the old 4 click adjuster is there any parts I can transfer to make this the 8 click version?

    Looking at the two damper assemblies I cannot spot any differences?
    Last edited by shiny; 08-18-2018 at 02:13 PM.

  86. #3886
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiny View Post
    Long story short version! Stuffed the rebound knob bolt on my Mattoc Expert and cannot get the old bolt out. . Still have the old 4 click adjuster is there any parts I can transfer to make this the 8 click version?

    Looking at the two damper assemblies I cannot spot any differences?
    Left hand drills are your best friend for removing rounded out cap screws.

    Expert parts have been discontinued. The hot ticket is upgrading the damper to the Pro level:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mattoc-...t-manitou.html
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  87. #3887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Left hand drills are your best friend for removing rounded out cap screws.

    Expert parts have been discontinued. The hot ticket is upgrading the damper to the Pro level:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mattoc-...t-manitou.html
    Thanks Dougal, used an easy out but it snapped the bolt, so will just put old rebound assembly in. Do you know when you will get stock of the rebound knobs? Cannot find them anywhere currently.

  88. #3888
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiny View Post
    Thanks Dougal, used an easy out but it snapped the bolt, so will just put old rebound assembly in. Do you know when you will get stock of the rebound knobs? Cannot find them anywhere currently.
    I used our last rebound knobs on a demo fork last week. I think we've got more coming in a shipment that's a week or 2 away.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  89. #3889
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    I have spent the last few rides on a Mattoc
    Comp boost. I gotta say, the thing impressed me way more then I was expecting. It's the newer version with the Dorado air spring in place of the TS air in the older mattoc/magnum comps.

    The ABS+ damper stands up to the test of time, it's really good. I know everyone wants the Pro version, but if you are on a budget, the comp version is probably the best fork you can buy under $500 bucks. I was kinda blown away by it.

    I'm probably going to buy one for my wife now

  90. #3890
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I have spent the last few rides on a Mattoc
    Comp boost. I gotta say, the thing impressed me way more then I was expecting. It's the newer version with the Dorado air spring in place of the TS air in the older mattoc/magnum comps.

    The ABS+ damper stands up to the test of time, it's really good. I know everyone wants the Pro version, but if you are on a budget, the comp version is probably the best fork you can buy under $500 bucks. I was kinda blown away by it.

    I'm probably going to buy one for my wife now
    The ABS+ can indeed do everything the MC^2 has done. It just forgoes adjustment of HBO and HSC.

    The only real performance limitation IMO is the larger rebound piston can't move as fast without generating extra compression damping forces. This only really affects those riding choppy terrain at speed.

    P.S. Hope your wife doesn't know the model hierarchy!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  91. #3891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The ABS+ can indeed do everything the MC^2 has done. It just forgoes adjustment of HBO and HSC.

    The only real performance limitation IMO is the larger rebound piston can't move as fast without generating extra compression damping forces. This only really affects those riding choppy terrain at speed.

    P.S. Hope your wife doesn't know the model hierarchy!

    She won't know what I dont tell her.

  92. #3892
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    1st world dillema's: get the pro dampers and high flow piston for 195euro or wait it out and bag some extra clearance under the arch in the process on a newer one.

  93. #3893
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    can anyone give some base settings on this fork? I went out for a first ride yesterday & found the small bump pretty much non existent. seemed better over big hits & jumps/drops.

  94. #3894
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    Quote Originally Posted by wankel View Post
    I'm having the exact same issue on my mattoc pro 2. When I first got it I tried compressing it vertically off the bike and it seemed noticeabley smoother than the xfusion sweep it replaced. Now that it is on the bike however it is very notchy, like in the video.

    Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk
    So I finally got around to troubleshooting this issue and it seems to be a stiction issue in the rebound assembly.

    I took the lowers off and compressed the air spring by hand and it was smooth. Did the same to the damper side and felt the same notchy feeling I was experiencing while riding. So, I took out the rebound damper assembly and when I try and slide the rod back and forth there seems like an excessive amount of force required.

    Manitou support says it just hasn't broken in yet, but I have been riding it most of the summer with no noticeable improvement.

    Is there anything I can do to fix it? Is it normal?

    Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk

  95. #3895
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrback View Post
    can anyone give some base settings on this fork? I went out for a first ride yesterday & found the small bump pretty much non existent. seemed better over big hits & jumps/drops.
    I found the air pressure recommendation on the fork sticker a little high for. Me personally. Maybe check your rebound as well, if it's closed (slow) it could feel a little harsh.
    I have the IRT in mine. About 75-80kg think I have about 45psi with no IRT, and have been trying 45 and 90 with it in. NB my fork is 170mm, HSC 2, LSC 2 or 3 (from open) and rebound 2/3 from open.

  96. #3896
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrback View Post
    can anyone give some base settings on this fork? I went out for a first ride yesterday & found the small bump pretty much non existent. seemed better over big hits & jumps/drops.
    The fork will take some time - 20 to 30 hours of saddle time to break in.

    I find these pressures minus 5 to work well:

    https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...t-up_Guide.pdf

    If you have IRT, I use this minus 10:

    https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...Mattoc_IRT.pdf
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  97. #3897
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    My Mattoc Pro (1st gen) suddenly started acting sticky today under light or no load. I last changed the fluids 450 miles ago, and the seals (new design) about 1,000 miles ago. Should I just change the seals and fluid, or do these symptoms usually mean something else?

  98. #3898
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    Tried trawling through the threads but thought i would just ask. Fitted the Pro2 to the bike today. Very very impressed. I am finding the HSC dial very tight, i get 4 obvious clicks then it gets very tight. LSC has 4 clicks. Does that sound about right. Will the HSC loosen off??

    Also i have ordered the IRT, did i read somewhere you increase that pressure before spring.

    Thanks again all :-)

  99. #3899
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactheknife View Post
    Tried trawling through the threads but thought i would just ask. Fitted the Pro2 to the bike today. Very very impressed. I am finding the HSC dial very tight, i get 4 obvious clicks then it gets very tight. LSC has 4 clicks. Does that sound about right. Will the HSC loosen off??

    Also i have ordered the IRT, did i read somewhere you increase that pressure before spring.

    Thanks again all :-)
    That knob behavior sounds about like mine--it gets tight and ill-defined at the extremes. Mine has not loosened up over time.

    Make sure to lube the shaft of the IRT in addition to the seal of the IRT piston. Pressurize IRT first because otherwise it will change the volume of the main chamber as you add air, increasing the main psi from what you just put in. There's no harm in doing it in the wrong order, it just would require re-checking/adjusting the main pressure, so it would create a 3-step process with a useless first step.

  100. #3900
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    Hey phile, thanks for the reply. All the info i need. Now to get the Mattoc on some Scottish steep to see what all the fuss is about :-)

  101. #3901
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactheknife View Post
    Tried trawling through the threads but thought i would just ask. Fitted the Pro2 to the bike today. Very very impressed. I am finding the HSC dial very tight, i get 4 obvious clicks then it gets very tight. LSC has 4 clicks. Does that sound about right. Will the HSC loosen off??

    Also i have ordered the IRT, did i read somewhere you increase that pressure before spring.

    Thanks again all :-)
    HSC works by preloading the upper shim-stack. It gets very firm as it approaches the stops to prevent the shims being preloaded too far. This is completely normal.

    As Phile said, make sure you grease the IRT shaft as well as outside of the piston. Slickoleum is the stuff.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  102. #3902
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    It seems most of us are using around 2 clicks anyway. My HSC is weird around the first and last click, but its consistent and never changes, so its easy to set.

    I was sort of weirded out by the knobs when I was playing around with it in my backyard for the first time. Im not used to this type of adjustments.

    Once you hit the trail, any worry about it will go away. The adjustments work better than anything Ive ever used, for adjusting actual trail feel.

  103. #3903
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    It seems most of us are using around 2 clicks anyway. My HSC is weird around the first and last click, but its consistent and never changes, so its easy to set.

    I was sort of weirded out by the knobs when I was playing around with it in my backyard for the first time. Im not used to this type of adjustments.

    Once you hit the trail, any worry about it will go away. The adjustments work better than anything Ive ever used, for adjusting actual trail feel.
    The adjuster putting physical preload on a shim stack makes for a funky feeling adjuster for sure.

    As far as I know, manitou is the only company that has this design. It works so well though that most people feel like you do and forget about it when they hit the trail.

  104. #3904
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    It works so well though that most people feel like you do and forget about it when they hit the trail.
    Just like it's supposed to!

    Imagine if your car needed the suspension reset for every uphill, downhill, slow bit and fast bit?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  105. #3905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    HSC works by preloading the upper shim-stack. It gets very firm as it approaches the stops to prevent the shims being preloaded too far. This is completely normal.

    As Phile said, make sure you grease the IRT shaft as well as outside of the piston. Slickoleum is the stuff.
    I didn't grease the IRT shaft, just the piston. What could happen without grease??
    Manitou installation instructions didn't say to grease the shaft...

  106. #3906
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I didn't grease the IRT shaft, just the piston. What could happen without grease??
    Manitou installation instructions didn't say to grease the shaft...
    Out of the box (uninstalled), the piston on my IRT was very sticky/shuddery--I was alarmed. A little grease on the shaft made it buttery. On the bike, it seems like it would mostly add stiction--but it would wear quicker too. No idea whether either the stiction or wear would be significant.

  107. #3907
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    I disassembled my Mattoc tonight, and somehow created a strong vacuum, or highly pressurized negative air spring, or something--the fork really wants to be almost bottomed out. By forcing the fork to zero travel and depressing the valve core, I reduced the effect, but then when I connected a shock pump, the fork instantly retracted again. What the heck did I do wrong??

  108. #3908
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    You have probably screwed the lowers with the fork compressed and now when you try to extend the fork you are creating a negative chamber/pressure on the lowers.

  109. #3909
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    I didn't grease the IRT shaft, just the piston. What could happen without grease??
    Manitou installation instructions didn't say to grease the shaft...
    The seal wears out and vents your higher IRT pressure into the main chamber.

    This only takes a few hours riding. It's not hard to fix if it happens, but it's better to be greased up.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  110. #3910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The seal wears out and vents your higher IRT pressure into the main chamber.

    This only takes a few hours riding. It's not hard to fix if it happens, but it's better to be greased up.
    Thanks

  111. #3911
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    If anyone is interested in a cheap plastic mudguard that fits the Mattoc reverse arch, this $3 one from china seems to do the job (and goes with the color scheme). Some trimming required.

    Manitou Mattoc-20180822_124328.jpg

  112. #3912
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    Quote Originally Posted by davideb87 View Post
    Thanks

    Yes, and you will notice it quickly. The IRT system is great but does require more routine maintenance. I check my pressures every 3-4 months and lube the shaft heavily. Also, I have found the inner O-ring wears out faster than the larger outer O-ring. Easy change and cheap to replace.
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  113. #3913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Yes, and you will notice it quickly. The IRT system is great but does require more routine maintenance. I check my pressures every 3-4 months and lube the shaft heavily. Also, I have found the inner O-ring wears out faster than the larger outer O-ring. Easy change and cheap to replace.
    I lubricated it with prepM. The piston was relatively smooth without grease, not stuck by any means.
    With grease it is a lot smoother.
    Both orings seems fine.
    Last edited by davideb87; 08-22-2018 at 05:20 AM.

  114. #3914
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    What issue does the IRT solve, anyway? I understand what its doing, but Im honestly not finding a deficiency in the stock dorado spring. This sounds like added maintenance and failure points.

    Is it targeted towards lighter riders?

  115. #3915
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    Not an issue that it's solving, it's just another tuning tool. It allows the ability to change the mid stroke and end stroke (similar to volume reducers, it just has a different effect). Also, the ability to adjust this on the fly. You have to discharge the air chamber to swap out volume reducers, where the IRT you just hook up a shock pump and adjust. If you are perfectly happy with the stock setup, then leave it as is. But you may find that with IRT you could drop the pressure a bit for better small bump compliance, and still have ample mid stroke support and bottom out resistance.

  116. #3916
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    What issue does the IRT solve, anyway? I understand what its doing, but Im honestly not finding a deficiency in the stock dorado spring. This sounds like added maintenance and failure points.

    Is it targeted towards lighter riders?
    The stock spring works very well but the IRT system can create a more progressive system with much better mid-stroke and even better small bump compliance.

    Personally, I think it works great for heavier riders in that it allows for a really plush feel with solid mid and end stroke feel. Without it, us heavier guys tend to bump up the main spring air-pressure to get more mid-stroke - compromising initial plushness.

    I do think a lot of the above can be obtained by the compression settings but the IRT just allows you to get the feel you want very simply.
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  117. #3917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Personally, I think it works great for heavier riders in that it allows for a really plush feel with solid mid and end stroke feel. Without it, us heavier guys tend to bump up the main spring air-pressure to get more mid-stroke - compromising initial plushness.
    Exactly this. For years Ive been stuck having to choose the lesser evil of running too firm a spring, cranking the LSC till the fork doesn't budge, or running an ultra progressive air spring via oil or tokens. IRT finally gets my fork feeling plush over the small stuff without blowing through all the travel every time I'm mashing out of the seat.

  118. #3918
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    There seems to be a lot of stiction in my rebound assembly. Can anyone comment on what is considered normal?

    Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk

  119. #3919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    You have probably screwed the lowers with the fork compressed and now when you try to extend the fork you are creating a negative chamber/pressure on the lowers.
    Bingo--thanks a lot! Weird that I haven't stumbled onto that issue before--I guess I got overconfident this time and didn't follow the instructions.

  120. #3920
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    What issue does the IRT solve, anyway? I understand what its doing, but Im honestly not finding a deficiency in the stock dorado spring. This sounds like added maintenance and failure points.

    Is it targeted towards lighter riders?
    IRT solves the weak mid-stroke issue of air springs. While also giving you independent control over first vs second half of the stroke.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  121. #3921
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    So had my first ride out yesterday on the Mattoc. Ill be completely honest i only bought it as a stop gap until i could get a hold of some MRP Ribbon coils. That may have changed though as i was pretty impressed with them out the box.

    Where i ride is pretty full on, not much flow and lots of steep chunk.

    I have initially set them up to 20% sag. I am not a massive fan of using sag to gauge air spring pressure but i do think it gives you a good starting point.
    First run was with rebound set only. No HSC or LSC added. As expected felt a bit divey but composed.
    2nd run i added 2 clicks (out of 5) HSC and 1 click of LSC. Seemed to be a bit more of what i was needing. I am awaiting the IRT to come through the door. As i said i did find them slightly divey but the terrain i ride would expose that very quickly. If the IRT does everything i think it does that will be solved.

    MRP might not be getting my cash just yet :-)

  122. #3922
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    Hi all. I have a Mattoc Pro since two months lowered to 140 mm with IVA. Since some time I can hear silent knocking on begining of the stroke, especially on small bumps. Fork is working excelent, all adjustement working. Pressure is about 60 psi, Rebound 3 Clicks from open, HSC 1 click from open, LSC 2 clicks from open ( after lasy trip in Mountain ).My weight around 93 kg ( around 205 lbs). Does anybody has/ have it and know what is the reason and how to solve it?

  123. #3923
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    Solved, nevermind.
    Last edited by davideb87; 08-24-2018 at 12:43 PM.

  124. #3924
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    Evening all.
    I one of the last pairs of mattoc Pro 2,s from crc at that bargain price sitting here
    Can anyone tell me this.
    Now i have 26" spicy to stick them on but what difference would it make if i kept them at 160mm in 27'5 form or put them in 26" mode at 160mm A to C is the same so does the 26" change over do anything else that i'm not seeing.
    Cheers.

  125. #3925
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    2017 Minute pro 140mm 29 vs 2018 Mattoc comp 27.+/29 120mm

    Was wondering what the difference is between the two, I own the 2017 Minute pro 140mm 29 it has the firmness control nob on top and on the lower the rebound adjust with black stanchons, looking at the 2018 Mattoc comp 120mm 27.5+/29 it has the same nobs and nothing more. From what I can tell, other than boost spacing are they the same? Also does the 2018 Mattoc comp have the 2 internal reducers installed that limit travel to 120mm from 140mm?

  126. #3926
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    Quote Originally Posted by GNU_BLIND View Post
    Was wondering what the difference is between the two, I own the 2017 Minute pro 140mm 29 it has the firmness control nob on top and on the lower the rebound adjust with black stanchons, looking at the 2018 Mattoc comp 120mm 27.5+/29 it has the same nobs and nothing more. From what I can tell, other than boost spacing are they the same? Also does the 2018 Mattoc comp have the 2 internal reducers installed that limit travel to 120mm from 140mm?
    Mattoc comp has a stiffer 34mm chassis compared to a minute (32mm chassis). It also has a better air spring design (expert air which is the same design as Dorado air)
    It also has a internal hydraulic bottom out system (your minute may as well depending on the year)

    The 27.5+/29 version comes set at 120mm and will have 2 spacers installed that can be removed to extend to 140mm. Do not get one that comes stock at 100mm as it will not be able to be extended, only the 120mm version can be.

  127. #3927
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Mattoc comp has a stiffer 34mm chassis compared to a minute (32mm chassis). It also has a better air spring design (expert air which is the same design as Dorado air)
    It also has a internal hydraulic bottom out system (your minute may as well depending on the year)

    The 27.5+/29 version comes set at 120mm and will have 2 spacers installed that can be removed to extend to 140mm. Do not get one that comes stock at 100mm as it will not be able to be extended, only the 120mm version can be.
    Thanks for the info

  128. #3928
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabgi View Post
    Hi all. I have a Mattoc Pro since two months lowered to 140 mm with IVA. Since some time I can hear silent knocking on begining of the stroke, especially on small bumps. Fork is working excelent, all adjustement working. Pressure is about 60 psi, Rebound 3 Clicks from open, HSC 1 click from open, LSC 2 clicks from open ( after lasy trip in Mountain ).My weight around 93 kg ( around 205 lbs). Does anybody has/ have it and know what is the reason and how to solve it?
    I have the same issue and I think it is related to my sticky damper rod. It takes quite a bit of force to get it moving and once it breaks free it feels like a knock.

    I'm told it will some day break-in and get better.

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  129. #3929
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    Quote Originally Posted by wankel View Post
    I have the same issue and I think it is related to my sticky damper rod. It takes quite a bit of force to get it moving and once it breaks free it feels like a knock.

    I'm told it will some day break-in and get better.

    Sent from my ASUS_Z012DC using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by gabgi View Post
    Hi all. I have a Mattoc Pro since two months lowered to 140 mm with IVA. Since some time I can hear silent knocking on begining of the stroke, especially on small bumps. Fork is working excelent, all adjustement working. Pressure is about 60 psi, Rebound 3 Clicks from open, HSC 1 click from open, LSC 2 clicks from open ( after lasy trip in Mountain ).My weight around 93 kg ( around 205 lbs). Does anybody has/ have it and know what is the reason and how to solve it?
    Sounds more like the rebound spring being out of position. Makes a soft knocking sound and the fork seems to perform ok.
    I had it before and fixed it myself. You do need to open the damper side.

    I'ts probably the one real problem wit this fork. I had this 2 times, think after a crash or something like that.

  130. #3930
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    Sounds more like the rebound spring being out of position. Makes a soft knocking sound and the fork seems to perform ok.
    I had it before and fixed it myself. You do need to open the damper side.

    I'ts probably the one real problem wit this fork. I had this 2 times, think after a crash or something like that.
    That's only an Expert problem. The Pro uses a different rebound check spring that can't jump out of place.

    I think it needs stripped down to see if anything is loose.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  131. #3931
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    Dougla, lowers has been moved out twice to check if anything ( air side and damper side ) is loose and found nothing . Can it be air piston ( just thinking ....maybe air piston is not screwed correctly) ?

  132. #3932
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiny View Post
    Came here to post this, bit concerned with the dials on top of the damper No HBO would be a let down as that feature is great. Also much better cable routing. Looking forward to some more details.

    So, the pink bike article was a bit thin but I found this site had lots more info:

    https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-an...ting-comeback/

    37mm stanchions, 4.4 lbs, 170mm travel. Fork sounds like an absolute killer.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  133. #3933
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    Hey I recently serviced my Mattoc Expert and have now noticed a knocking noise coming from what sounds like the damper assembly. The sound is a single knock/tap that occurs right as the fork begins its upward motion after being compressed, and it becomes louder if I increase the amount of rebound damping. While servicing, I swapped out the fork oil for Maxima 5wt, and left 80mm of air between the top of the oil and the top of the upper threads.

    Does anyone have an idea what could be the cause of this noise?

  134. #3934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zae5op View Post
    Hey I recently serviced my Mattoc Expert and have now noticed a knocking noise coming from what sounds like the damper assembly. The sound is a single knock/tap that occurs right as the fork begins its upward motion after being compressed, and it becomes louder if I increase the amount of rebound damping. While servicing, I swapped out the fork oil for Maxima 5wt, and left 80mm of air between the top of the oil and the top of the upper threads.

    Does anyone have an idea what could be the cause of this noise?
    Sounds like the rebound check spring jumped out of place in the removal/refit process.

  135. #3935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    So, the pink bike article was a bit thin but I found this site had lots more info:

    https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-an...ting-comeback/

    37mm stanchions, 4.4 lbs, 170mm travel. Fork sounds like an absolute killer.
    Take my money, I want Mega Mattoc and I want it now!

  136. #3936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    So, the pink bike article was a bit thin but I found this site had lots more info:

    https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-an...ting-comeback/

    37mm stanchions, 4.4 lbs, 170mm travel. Fork sounds like an absolute killer.
    170mm sounds low.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  137. #3937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    170mm sounds low.
    I want one.

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

  138. #3938
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    Manitou Mattoc-capture.jpg

    Is this the rebound check spring? Just want to make sure before I take it apart again! Thank you

  139. #3939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zae5op View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Is this the rebound check spring? Just want to make sure before I take it apart again! Thank you
    Yes.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  140. #3940
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    Apologies if this has asked before, but it's a huge thread to read through.

    I'm looking to buy one of the Magnum pro 27.5+ forks from CRC. They have both the 2016 and 2017 models available in 100mm travel, but I'd like to be able to extend it to 120mm. I've read somewhere that the 2016 models had different length stanchions, so that there was a 80-100mm model, and a 120-140mm model. Does anyone know if this is the case, and if it also applies to the 2017 version?

  141. #3941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    170mm sounds low.

    You are right, it actually says 180!
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  142. #3942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    You are right, it actually says 180!
    27.5 with 180mm

    29 with 170mm

    ;-)

    In want it.... How much will it be, 800 bucks? Hope street price is max as high as Lyrik

  143. #3943
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    27.5 with 180mm

    29 with 170mm

    ;-)

    In want it.... How much will it be, 800 bucks? Hope street price is max as high as Lyrik
    Man, that does sound very competitive, especially at that target weight. And no matter how stiff it is, using a size larger than 36 will help in the marketing.

    $800 (USD) would be an absolute steal - given that a Fox 36 or Rock Shock Lyrik are both >$1000.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  144. #3944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Man, that does sound very competitive, especially at that target weight. And no matter how stiff it is, using a size larger than 36 will help in the marketing.

    $800 (USD) would be an absolute steal - given that a Fox 36 or Rock Shock Lyrik are both >$1000.
    IMO they would have to make it less than that to be competitive. Simply because Manitou has such a black cloud hanging over it to most in the industry. Those of us that have actually ridden the current generation stuff know better, but it's not a "household" name like the other players. Nor do you see it on any higher end OEM stuff.

    We all know how great the MC2 damper is, and the forks in general. Most do not, nor are they willing to give them a chance. Sad, but true.

    Needless to say, I want one! Do I need one? No. But I wouldn't mind having one!!

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

  145. #3945
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    IMO they would have to make it less than that to be competitive. Simply because Manitou has such a black cloud hanging over it to most in the industry. Those of us that have actually ridden the current generation stuff know better, but it's not a "household" name like the other players. Nor do you see it on any higher end OEM stuff.

    We all know how great the MC2 damper is, and the forks in general. Most do not, nor are they willing to give them a chance. Sad, but true.

    Needless to say, I want one! Do I need one? No. But I wouldn't mind having one!!

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
    Well, the Mattoc when it came out was something like $799 or $850, so I doubt it will be cheaper than that. I think the Mattoc 29" is something like that as well.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  146. #3946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Well, the Mattoc when it came out was something like $799 or $850, so I doubt it will be cheaper than that. I think the Mattoc 29" is something like that as well.
    Yeah most places the Mattoc 27.5+/29 runs around $900 so I am assuming this new "long travel" 29er will probably be close to that price. But doesn't really matter to me, next bike (next year) will have this fork and probably the Dominion A4s on it!

  147. #3947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    That's only an Expert problem. The Pro uses a different rebound check spring that can't jump out of place.
    Well, coincidence or not, i have that knock again, 2nd time this summer and it get's annoying.
    If it is an expert problem, can i replace the rebound assembly by a pro rebound assembly without replacing the expert damper?

  148. #3948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syncro View Post
    my HBO dial won't turn, it's jammed or something. Is this a common problem? Any ideas on what to do?
    Has anyone else had this issue? Or is Syncro still responding to this thread 2 years later? I just pulled my compression damper on my Mattoc Pro 2 27.5 to check fluid, and reinstalled. I had all knobs at full soft. When reinstalling, I noticed the HSC knob would seat properly on the LSC, but the HBO wouldn't seat down on the HSC knob. Instead of being recessed in the HSC, it's now flush on top, and will not turn. The LSC and HSC knobs feel just right. I've checked for the spring/balls, cleaned them and their slots, cleaned in between the HBO and HSC knob. If I remove the LSC knob and just put the HBO knob on the splines, it still won't turn. How would that be possible to lock up the HBO shaft if all I did was remove and reinstall the compression damper? I didn't even set it down, I literally just pulled the damper straight out, measured with the other hand, and pushed it straight back in.

  149. #3949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    Sounds like the rebound check spring jumped out of place in the removal/refit process.
    Thank you Boom King and Dougal, I took the fork back apart and you were exactly right, the rebound check spring had become slightly overlapped on itself. After straightening it out and reassembling everything works great and the knock is gone, you guys rock!

  150. #3950
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Attachment 1043360

    Got my McLeod back and installed the new mattoc expert rebound damper. The expert now has 9 clicks of rebound instead of 4.

    For people who run with the travel less than 160mm, do you feel the fork is a bit soft off the top? The design seems to add volume to the negative chamber when you lower the travel and it feels a bit weak for the first 1/3 of travel. I'm 160lbs in gear and running 75psi (according to my pump) and it still feels a bit soft. 2 clicks of lsc and 2 click in for hsc.(counting in because you loose track of clicks when close to full closed).
    Well here is a coincidence I have been poring over this thread for the last couple days and I am 99% certain I have your old bike :P

    Manitou Mattoc-capture.jpg

  151. #3951
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    For the people who have the irt, how often do you re-grease the o-rings on it? I'm about to do a small service on my mattoc. While i pull the fork apart i was wondering if i should service the irt aswell.

  152. #3952
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurck View Post
    For the people who have the irt, how often do you re-grease the o-rings on it? I'm about to do a small service on my mattoc. While i pull the fork apart i was wondering if i should service the irt aswell.
    I do mine when i do a bath oil change (every 3-4 months in my case), but really, given how easy it is to pull the IRT out, you could do it as often as you want.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  153. #3953
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    ^what he said.

  154. #3954
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    Hi guys, I made a little mistake while ordering air piston seal and I received one for Magnum, does it fit Mattoc?

  155. #3955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    I do mine when i do a bath oil change (every 3-4 months in my case), but really, given how easy it is to pull the IRT out, you could do it as often as you want.
    About the same interval for the bath oil change as I use. Will include the irt then aswell

  156. #3956
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    Hi guys, I made a little mistake while ordering air piston seal and I received one for Magnum, does it fit Mattoc?
    I am pretty sure it is the exact same thing.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  157. #3957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zae5op View Post
    Well here is a coincidence I have been poring over this thread for the last couple days and I am 99% certain I have your old bike :P

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The braking hose is not to be guided this way between the stanchions. . This is awfully wrong and can lead to damage

  158. #3958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zae5op View Post
    Well here is a coincidence I have been poring over this thread for the last couple days and I am 99% certain I have your old bike :P

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is definitely one of my old bikes. Hope you are enjoying it!

  159. #3959
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    The braking hose is not to be guided this way between the stanchions. . This is awfully wrong and can lead to damage
    How would it cause damage?

  160. #3960
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    How would it cause damage?
    Because it can pinch the hose at bottom out/full travel.

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

  161. #3961
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    Because it can pinch the hose at bottom out/full travel.

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, its not recommended by manitou to run it that way. In the case of the bike in question, the front brake line was too short to run it the way manitou wants. It was checked diligently though and will not have any issues in its current form.

    I miss that bike, one of my all time favorites. So playful on the trails.

  162. #3962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    You are right, it actually says 180!
    OOOOOhhhhh a 29er Mattoc that is 150mm-180mm adjustable would be stellar!

  163. #3963
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    OOOOOhhhhh a 29er Mattoc that is 150mm-180mm adjustable would be stellar!
    But on nsmb it says 180mm on the 27.5 fork.... On pinkbike they are talking about a 29 fork.... And that one has 170mm. Anyway good enough. Cannot wait

  164. #3964
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    But on nsmb it says 180mm on the 27.5 fork.... On pinkbike they are talking about a 29 fork.... And that one has 170mm. Anyway good enough. Cannot wait
    Patience. You will know these details in good time.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  165. #3965
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    I have a new take off Mattoc 100mm Hexlock SL axle with the mounting hardware I'll send in the US for $15 shipped.
    Same as this:
    https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pro...00mm-thru-axle
    If you want to convert your QR-15 to a bolt on axle this is what you need.

  166. #3966
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    Quick one guys, i have a bit of play in the bushings on my new Mattoc Pro. Im 99 percent sure CRC will say they are within tolerance as i have had this before with a set of fox i had from them. Sooooooo as a DIY job is it easy enough to do yourself or do i need to call in the experts ? :-)

  167. #3967
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    Quote Originally Posted by mactheknife View Post
    Quick one guys, i have a bit of play in the bushings on my new Mattoc Pro. Im 99 percent sure CRC will say they are within tolerance as i have had this before with a set of fox i had from them. Sooooooo as a DIY job is it easy enough to do yourself or do i need to call in the experts ? :-)
    Top or bottom?

    You need a specialized puller and a sizing tool to push through them to ensure they're round and to size when done.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  168. #3968
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    The 8mm ID shims do not need to cover the ports, you get a seal with the 10mm ID shims (assuming you don't have the hsc adjustment set up to give you float, which you shouldn't, especially on a mattoc).

    Use the 8mm shims to control port size when you are tuning(adjusting diameter rather than thickness, though you can change thickness as well as a more advanced tuning method). You can add shims under the larger 8mm ID shims to give a little free bleed under the 8mm stack.

    Use the 8mm stack to control low and mid speed damping(by controlling port size and bleed), the 10mm stack mostly controls high speed.

    These same concepts are used in tuning the McLeod.
    I know I'm quoting an old post, but it's shim-related.

    I have some 8mm ID shims so I can increase port flow, but I don't have any 10mm ID shims and I want something softer than the stock preloaded 10mmx21mmx0.2mm shim. Does anyone know of an online shop where I can buy small quantities of shims, preferably in Canada but maybe anywhere if shipping is reasonable? One USA shop wants ~$30 shipping for a $15 order...

  169. #3969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Patience. You will know these details in good time.
    Hope it will be available soon, too. And price beneath 999 dollars instead of uothere with the others :-)

  170. #3970
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    Hello guys! I'm looking for a new fork to substitute to my current RS Domain 318. I was searching for a pike in some used market, but then I discovered the mattoc and read a lot of good reviews. I like underrated products or brands, and I want to try the mattoc. In the used market I've only found the first mattoc pro for 350 (brand new). What's the difference between the pro and the pro 2? Is it worthy waiting for a good offer of the pro2 or should I buy the pro1 for this price? I'm from Italy and these forks are not so common.

  171. #3971
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    Quote Originally Posted by GianlucaHT View Post
    Hello guys! I'm looking for a new fork to substitute to my current RS Domain 318. I was searching for a pike in some used market, but then I discovered the mattoc and read a lot of good reviews. I like underrated products or brands, and I want to try the mattoc. In the used market I've only found the first mattoc pro for 350 (brand new). What's the difference between the pro and the pro 2? Is it worthy waiting for a good offer of the pro2 or should I buy the pro1 for this price? I'm from Italy and these forks are not so common.
    Get the first pro and add updates as needed. Hexlock SL axle and IRT are my picks. Also high flow piston if you ride rocks or roots often.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  172. #3972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Get the first pro and add updates as needed. Hexlock SL axle and IRT are my picks. Also high flow piston if you ride rocks or roots often.
    Thank you! I've just bought the pro1 for 300 with IRT included!

  173. #3973
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    Quote Originally Posted by GianlucaHT View Post
    Thank you! I've just bought the pro1 for 300 with IRT included!
    You'll also want the new seals. 141-34000 is the part number.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  174. #3974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    You'll also want the new seals. 141-34000 is the part number.
    Awesome, thank you!

  175. #3975
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    I just stripped my mattoc expert to correct the rebound spring. When opening the airspring there was oil in the - chamber. Turns out I'm still running an old piston whit one glide ring.

    I contacted my local suspension shop to order a new piston. He said i might as well just stop using oil as the grease does a good job on it's own. He also claims he got this information from Manitou France.

    I only thrust you guy's so what do you think?

    Buy new piston ore stop using oil?

  176. #3976
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    I just stripped my mattoc expert to correct the rebound spring. When opening the airspring there was oil in the - chamber. Turns out I'm still running an old piston whit one glide ring.

    I contacted my local suspension shop to order a new piston. He said i might as well just stop using oil as the grease does a good job on it's own. He also claims he got this information from Manitou France.

    I only thrust you guy's so what do you think?

    Buy new piston ore stop using oil?
    Wait, stop using oil for what? Bath oil? I would recommend the new dual seal piston (with plenty of grease) but still definitely use bath oil in the lower legs!

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

  177. #3977
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    Wait, stop using oil for what? Bath oil? I would recommend the new dual seal piston (with plenty of grease) but still definitely use bath oil in the lower legs!

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
    The 3 cc you put on top of the airpiston. He say's it's not needed and i can run the old piston with grease only.

  178. #3978
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    The 3 cc you put on top of the airpiston. He say's it's not needed and i can run the old piston with grease only.
    I've never added oil on top of the air piston. Just grease.

    Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

  179. #3979
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    The 3 cc you put on top of the airpiston. He say's it's not needed and i can run the old piston with grease only.
    Even Manitou deleted that step from the service video.

  180. #3980
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    I have been using an old video then.
    Is there another reason to change the old piston? If it's only oil migration, then obviously not.

  181. #3981
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    Ok, thanks !

    I'll keep the old piston then.
    I would still put the new piston in place.

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  182. #3982
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    I was editing my post and we crossed each other.

    I'll change the piston, Thanks

  183. #3983
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    Quote Originally Posted by thova View Post
    I was editing my post and we crossed each other.

    I'll change the piston, Thanks
    No problem. The dual seal piston helps keep it straight in the bore of the stanchion and reduces binding.

  184. #3984
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    Does anyone have an Expert 27.5 Rebound cone I can buy from them? I need one to finish my fork. Any harm in running the 26 cone for now until I get the 27.5? I am running the spacer under the bottom out rubber bushing on the air piston assembly.

  185. #3985
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    The Mattoc that I've just bought seems to have an issue. I misured the travel, and it is 145mm. I read that I should try putting the fork upside down, let out the air, pull up the stanchions and refill the air. But will this issue show up again in the future? What is the cause? I also read that could be a air valve issue, but how can I understand if it is?

    The situation is that:
    https://imgur.com/a/rWPHCdU
    https://imgur.com/a/todjHsa

  186. #3986
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    Quote Originally Posted by GianlucaHT View Post
    The Mattoc that I've just bought seems to have an issue. I misured the travel, and it is 145mm. I read that I should try putting the fork upside down, let out the air, pull up the stanchions and refill the air. But will this issue show up again in the future? What is the cause? I also read that could be a air valve issue, but how can I understand if it is?

    The situation is that:
    https://imgur.com/a/rWPHCdU
    https://imgur.com/a/todjHsa
    They have bottom-out bumpers so you don't get full travel just by stroking the fork. You need to hit something hard.

    When you connect a pump the positive and negative chambers connect and equalize. You can set the travel whereever you like, remove the pump, and it'll stay there. If you want full travel, make sure the fork is fully extended.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  187. #3987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    They have bottom-out bumpers so you don't get full travel just by stroking the fork. You need to hit something hard.

    When you connect a pump the positive and negative chambers connect and equalize. You can set the travel whereever you like, remove the pump, and it'll stay there. If you want full travel, make sure the fork is fully extended.
    Ok, thank you. I had a Domain so I have to buy a pump. Someone has raccomanded me to buy a Rockshox pump, but can I use other pumps without losing reliability?

  188. #3988
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    Quote Originally Posted by GianlucaHT View Post
    Ok, thank you. I had a Domain so I have to buy a pump. Someone has raccomanded me to buy a Rockshox pump, but can I use other pumps without losing reliability?
    Pumps are pumps. They're all compatible.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  189. #3989
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    Today while riding my fork became suddenly harsh and I could only compress it a few inches. I discovered my rebound knob fell off at some point too, and for some reason thought that was the cause.

    Well I figured out its not the rebound knob, so I flipped the bike over and let all the air out and then compressed and extended the fork after every 5-10 pumps. I had to do this sequence twice and now my fork feels back to normal.

    Did I fix the issue or just temporarily, and my fork just need serviced??

  190. #3990
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpo1 View Post
    Today while riding my fork became suddenly harsh and I could only compress it a few inches. I discovered my rebound knob fell off at some point too, and for some reason thought that was the cause.

    Well I figured out its not the rebound knob, so I flipped the bike over and let all the air out and then compressed and extended the fork after every 5-10 pumps. I had to do this sequence twice and now my fork feels back to normal.

    Did I fix the issue or just temporarily, and my fork just need serviced??
    Time to service I would say. You may have a worn main air seal.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  191. #3991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Time to service I would say. You may have a worn main air seal.
    Dang, yeah your probably right. Thanks for the feedback taking it in this week.

  192. #3992
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    Anyone have their outer leg assembly for their QR15 fall off? I lost mine and my rebound recently.

  193. #3993
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpo1 View Post
    Anyone have their outer leg assembly for their QR15 fall off? I lost mine and my rebound recently.
    Huh? What fell off?
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  194. #3994
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    Outer leg assembly. Now I'm going to be paranoid and check it often.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  195. #3995
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpo1 View Post
    Outer leg assembly. Now I'm going to be paranoid and check it often.
    That should not happen unless you messed with it prior to falling off.

    Do yourself a favor and buy the SL axle.

  196. #3996
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    That should not happen unless you messed with it prior to falling off.

    Do yourself a favor and buy the SL axle.
    Nope, I have never touched it. It worked itself loose over time, even though its two years old and not a lot of miles. Noticed it when I was washing the bike. The rubber ring and the piece where the QR locks in was still there, but the outer piece that screws into the leg was gone. It has a bit of loctite from the factory on it.

  197. #3997
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpo1 View Post
    Outer leg assembly. Now I'm going to be paranoid and check it often.
    Wow that is wacky.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

  198. #3998
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpo1 View Post
    Nope, I have never touched it. It worked itself loose over time, even though its two years old and not a lot of miles. Noticed it when I was washing the bike. The rubber ring and the piece where the QR locks in was still there, but the outer piece that screws into the leg was gone. It has a bit of loctite from the factory on it.
    That is really weird. I'll ask around, but I have never heard of it happening before.

  199. #3999
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    Strictly for your entertainment, here's a close-up of a Mattoc at more or less full travel (27.5" with spacer).

    Manitou Mattoc-flow-compression-close-up.jpg

  200. #4000
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Strictly for your entertainment, here's a close-up of a Mattoc at more or less full travel (27.5" with spacer).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Flow compression close-up.jpg 
Views:	210 
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ID:	1217844
    Thats most definitely full travel! Plus some. lol.

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