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Thread: Manitou Mattoc

  1. #3001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I saw multiple reports of the slotted one flexing and stripping the splines. That and I have a 24mm flat socket, made the 8mm in 15min, and could get a FR5 that works for $$54 les made it an easy choice.

    My FR 5 is about 20 years old. It is just 8mm deep. The FR5 at the shop I went to was about 16mm. The FR5.2 is even deeper. Should work fine and no fear of it stripping. Iíll cinfirm once I open it up when I get the spacers from Manitou.
    I can't speak for others. But I've never had that problem with the tool flexing or splines stripping. Get a grinder and slot your own FR5 if you like. The Manitou one has a bigger bore too.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  2. #3002
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Likely a seal. How old is it? If it's a older mattoc, I would replace the seals on the seal head (on the stanchion, both inner and outer though inner is the wear seal).

    In its newish, contact manitou and have it warranteed
    Its not that old since it is the version 2 without the QR-axle. I think it has been running like 200-300 hours. I spoke with the local dealer and he said that the seal on the rebound shaft usually last a very long time and that I should see leakage if it is damaged. He also thought it was bad fork fluid that was the suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Running extra thick oil will make the rebound side choke and pull air through the lower damper seal.
    I was strange since it felt fine early on. The rebound was still so fast that it would overshoot when rebounding. After the bike park day the it was very slow. I guess higher shaft speeds could be a factor? I will tear it down again and rebuild it with correct fork fluid.

    Does anyone know if the is a big quality difference between the Maxima 5 wt fork fluid with the green and the blue (racing) label?

  3. #3003
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    I figured I would share this here. I see Bike Wagon has 26" Mattoc Pro forks on sale for $240 on eBay. I would prefer the Expert, but at this price this is hard to pass up. They have the same fork on Amazon for $291 and it says 17 available so me and 16 other people are going to get a killer deal.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mat...d/132360436359

    I am going to convert to 27.5, put in the new low friction seals, add IRT and reduce travel to 150mm for use on my '16 Yeti SB5 and replace the horribly harsh Fox 34.

  4. #3004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    I figured I would share this here. I see Bike Wagon has 26" Mattoc Pro forks on sale for $240 on eBay. I would prefer the Expert, but at this price this is hard to pass up. They have the same fork on Amazon for $291 and it says 17 available so me and 16 other people are going to get a killer deal.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mat...d/132360436359

    I am going to convert to 27.5, put in the new low friction seals, add IRT and reduce travel to 150mm for use on my '16 Yeti SB5 and replace the horribly harsh Fox 34.
    Does it come with the HBO cone needed to convert to 27.5? If not, are they a readily available spare?

  5. #3005
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    If these are in the original boxes and are not OEM forks, they should have the conversion parts in the box. If not, from what I have read here the Pro parts are easily available but the Expert are only available with the fork.

  6. #3006
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    So - in summary for these anyone know what work needs to be done straight out of the box to get them working properly?

    Or could you let me know roughly what date the instructions are in this thread?? Goes back a looonnnggg way.

  7. #3007
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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    So - in summary for these anyone know what work needs to be done straight out of the box to get them working properly?

    Or could you let me know roughly what date the instructions are in this thread?? Goes back a looonnnggg way.
    Depends on date of manufacture but these should pretty much be right straight out of the box.

  8. #3008
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    It looks like the price went up to 288, still a good deal. I was going to buy one last night but resisted since I already have too many forks.

  9. #3009
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    I got one last night for $240 but $288 is still a great deal.

  10. #3010
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    Expert26 w/ green sticker on the box had everything needed, I'd get some rebound shims and service kit and call it dialed...nice fork and you'd have a hard time getting something else at this value (without coil spring)

    Edit* maybe it was green marker?
    Last edited by Deerhill; 11-10-2017 at 04:35 PM.
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  11. #3011
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    Spend cash saved and get some quality treads, 2.8" dhr2 (clears easy)...hellofa setup
    video=youtube;][/video]...

  12. #3012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    I figured I would share this here. I see Bike Wagon has 26" Mattoc Pro forks on sale for $240 on eBay. I would prefer the Expert, but at this price this is hard to pass up. They have the same fork on Amazon for $291 and it says 17 available so me and 16 other people are going to get a killer deal.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mat...d/132360436359

    I am going to convert to 27.5, put in the new low friction seals, add IRT and reduce travel to 150mm for use on my '16 Yeti SB5 and replace the horribly harsh Fox 34.
    I hesitated on this last night when it was at $240 and asked them if spacers etc was included. Was advised it is a brand new unit with all spacers / travel adjust etc.

    Too bad they raised it over $250 (max I was willing to spend for a fork on my spare use hardtail).

  13. #3013
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    Expert26 w/ green sticker on the box had everything needed, I'd get some rebound shims and service kit and call it dialed...nice fork and you'd have a hard time getting something else at this value (without coil spring)
    Note that my Mattoc from a while back had a green sticker but the old air piston.

  14. #3014
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    Note that my Mattoc from a while back had a green sticker but the old air piston.
    Green dot with a marker is what to look for, not the large green sticker.

  15. #3015
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    It went back to 240 for me this morning and this time I jumped on it. I already have other Mattoc/Mastodon forks as well as the so it could not hurt to have another. I'm going to replace a Minute 140 straight steer tube which could be sold for the same price.

  16. #3016
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    Weird that the price is bouncing around so often, but either way $240 or $288 its a great deal, a better deal at $240 obviously.

  17. #3017
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    Back at $240. I might pick one up just to have the spare parts.
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  18. #3018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Running extra thick oil will make the rebound side choke and pull air through the lower damper seal.
    I guess this is aerated oil.

    Manitou Mattoc-img_7496.jpg

    Its now rebuilt with Maxima 85/150 in the damper and the new seals. Tomorrow it wil get hammered in the bike park again.

    Thanks for the help!

  19. #3019
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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    So - in summary for these anyone know what work needs to be done straight out of the box to get them working properly?

    Or could you let me know roughly what date the instructions are in this thread?? Goes back a looonnnggg way.
    Manitou has a video on YouTube called 26 to 27.5 conversion. I did it, very easy. You will want the mattoc tool kit.

  20. #3020
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    How much travel should the mattoc get with the air chambers empty. I'm only getting 156mm.

  21. #3021
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    How much travel should the mattoc get with the air chambers empty. I'm only getting 156mm.
    That's correct. Rubber bumper stops the last few mm. It will compress with a hard hit, but not by hand.

  22. #3022
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    Quote Originally Posted by northvanguy View Post
    So - in summary for these anyone know what work needs to be done straight out of the box to get them working properly?

    Or could you let me know roughly what date the instructions are in this thread?? Goes back a looonnnggg way.
    Things to check straight out the box. For any fork.

    First that it's holding air. Push up and down. Forks are aired up at the factory.
    Remove lower legs horizontally and check visually for bath oil. You should see a puddle in each leg extending roughly from the end to the lower bushing.
    Check the damper side shaft fully compresses easily by hand.
    Check the rebound adjuster works across the stroke and changes resistance (fork uppers need to be vertical for this).
    Check the compression adjuster has full range and changes resistance. If those two check out then there's no need to check oil level inside. It's good.

    Depressurise air, remove top-cap and look inside for grease or oil (check which your fork is supposed to have). Check any additional air pistons and shafts are greased (IRT etc).
    Check smooth stroke of air shaft across whole range. If not smooth they may need removed and lubricated.
    Replace air-caps and pressurise.

    Return fork to horizontal, grease wiper seals and top-bushings. Slide lower legs back on and fasten.
    Pump forks, wipe off excess grease/oil and fit for riding.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  23. #3023
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    Just got one of those bike wagon eBay mattocs. There's a scuff on the crown steerer. This shouldn't be something I should be worried about right?


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  24. #3024
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post


    Just got one of those bike wagon eBay mattocs. There's a scuff on the crown steerer. This shouldn't be something I should be worried about right?
    weird. if it's above where the lower headset bearing will ride, I'd say it's cosmetic.

    out of curiosity does the fork show any signs of use? check for cable rub, that kind of thing.

  25. #3025
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    I dont think so, probably from sitting in the box for who knows how many years. I am not sure but I suspect these are old 2014-2015 Mattocs, not that it matters since they are easily updated to current specs.

  26. #3026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    I am not sure but I suspect these are old 2014-2015 Mattocs, not that it matters since they are easily updated to current specs.
    I agree, but just to recap for everyone:
    0. Buy the Mattoc service kit. You can order it from any Hayes service shop if you don't see it online and in stock.

    1. Disassemble and see if you have the new air compression rod. Hayes has been sending them out for free if you don't have it, I assume they will keep on doing that for new forks going into the field the first time.

    2. check damper level. use the right damper fluid!

    3. buy IRT, unless you intend to use ShockWiz.

    4. change the HBO cone from 26 to 27.5 if needed.

  27. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post


    Just got one of those bike wagon eBay mattocs. There's a scuff on the crown steerer. This shouldn't be something I should be worried about right?


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    Just to clarify, it has the 27.5 HBO cone in the box?

  28. #3028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    Just to clarify, it has the 27.5 HBO cone in the box?
    Yes.


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  29. #3029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    Just to clarify, it has the 27.5 HBO cone in the box?
    Yes, along with travel spacers.


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  30. #3030
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    Excellent. Thanks. Mine should be here today.

  31. #3031
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    I agree, but just to recap for everyone:
    0. Buy the Mattoc service kit. You can order it from any Hayes service shop if you don't see it online and in stock.

    1. Disassemble and see if you have the new air compression rod. Hayes has been sending them out for free if you don't have it, I assume they will keep on doing that for new forks going into the field the first time.

    2. check damper level. use the right damper fluid!

    3. buy IRT, unless you intend to use ShockWiz.

    4. change the HBO cone from 26 to 27.5 if needed.
    I would suggest most hold off the IRT unless they find they need it. It really seems to benefit heavier and/or aggressive riders. My son and his friend were both running Mattocs, both about 165 pounds. My son needed the IRT, otherwise we had to run extra pressure and lose small bump sensitivity. He is a very aggressive rider. His friend doesnít use all his travel without the IRT when setup so he doesnít have too much dive. He just isnít as aggressive. It really is rider dependent.


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  32. #3032
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    I got the IRT, with the fork only $240 getting the IRT only put me at $300 total so it was an easy decision for me. I'm 150lbs but I'm an old motocross racer so I'm pretty aggressive when it gets steep. I also do a lot of XC type riding, with the IRT I should be able to dial in the air spring setting for 2-3 types of riding (XC, Enduro race, etc), document my settings for the terrain and quickly adjust the air settings for that days intended use.

  33. #3033
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    3. buy IRT, unless you intend to use ShockWiz.
    How would you use shockwiz with this fork?

  34. #3034
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    How would you use shockwiz with this fork?
    ? I have not bought one, but I've read a lot about them.

    My understanding is that the device connects to the air inlet on any air fork or shock that does not have a variable air spring rate. Which rules out a Mattoc with IRT, as well as Fox or Rockshox forks with MRP's Ramp Control, and MRP Ribbon or Stage forks.

  35. #3035
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    I think he is asking because the Mattoc has the main air spring valve on the bottom of the fork instead of at the crown.

  36. #3036
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    ? I have not bought one, but I've read a lot about them.

    My understanding is that the device connects to the air inlet on any air fork or shock that does not have a variable air spring rate. Which rules out a Mattoc with IRT, as well as Fox or Rockshox forks with MRP's Ramp Control, and MRP Ribbon or Stage forks.
    You have to connect the device to the air valve.
    Of course when you do this on the Mattoc that opens up the negative chamber and you can't ride the fork like that.
    You could remove the IRT o-ring and connect it to the top. But then you'd be setting up the fork to run like that.

  37. #3037
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    Oh yeah, in addition to it being on the bottom, I forgot it opens the negative chamber also.

  38. #3038
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    Good points, sorry for missing the obvious!

  39. #3039
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    How would you use shockwiz with this fork?
    With this air-cap: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/magnum-...p-manitou.html
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  40. #3040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    I would suggest most hold off the IRT unless they find they need it. It really seems to benefit heavier and/or aggressive riders. My son and his friend were both running Mattocs, both about 165 pounds. My son needed the IRT, otherwise we had to run extra pressure and lose small bump sensitivity. He is a very aggressive rider. His friend doesnít use all his travel without the IRT when setup so he doesnít have too much dive. He just isnít as aggressive. It really is rider dependent.


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    I've recently gone from coil to IRT. Because I'm now very happy with the damper tune and can focus on the air spring curve alone.

    I was running 50psi as a single chamber, with IRT I'm running 40psi lower and 60psi upper. I'm very happy with that so far. But will continue to tune and tweak.

    You don't need to run huge pressure differentials to gain a benefit.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  41. #3041
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    The IRT is really a great idea because it allows you far more flexibility to tune the ramp up rate of the air spring to exactly how you want it over just volume tokens.

  42. #3042
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    Mine came this afternoon, 2014 build date, with the large green sticker and small green dot. The IRT I ordered with it was in there and the HBO parts and spacers were in the bag with the manual. My steerer had those scuffs also, but I think they actually came from the cardboard hole in rests in in the box.

    Manitou Mattoc-img_20171116_175159.jpgManitou Mattoc-img_20171116_175237.jpgManitou Mattoc-img_20171116_175300.jpgManitou Mattoc-img_20171116_175328.jpg

  43. #3043
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    Just wanted to add that the fork I received looks to be new and never installed.

    Does the green dot marker indicates the air piston is an updated version?




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  44. #3044
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    Mattocs are appearing everywhere...
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/GFj7e2]

  45. #3045
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    You can buy a Mattoc from a shop cheaper than a Reba is why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodogsfighting View Post
    You can buy a Mattoc from a shop cheaper than a Reba is why.
    Something to do with them also being one of the best 160mm forks available too, I'd suggest.

  47. #3047
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobilenemo View Post
    Just wanted to add that the fork I received looks to be new and never installed.

    Does the green dot marker indicates the air piston is an updated version?




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    Yes, small green dot means it was updated with new piston. You should be good to go (never hurts to check fluid levels though)

  48. #3048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I've recently gone from coil to IRT. Because I'm now very happy with the damper tune and can focus on the air spring curve alone.

    I was running 50psi as a single chamber, with IRT I'm running 40psi lower and 60psi upper. I'm very happy with that so far. But will continue to tune and tweak.

    You don't need to run huge pressure differentials to gain a benefit.
    This is really true. With a good shock pump, the changes you can make in ride quality are almost infinite.
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  49. #3049
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Yes, small green dot means it was updated with new piston. You should be good to go (never hurts to check fluid levels though)
    I'll check when the tools and irt kit comes in! Can't wait to see the difference between this and my14 Pike


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  50. #3050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I tried my FR5 and it is too shallow. The Walls are only 8.2mm deep before it quickly tapers down to an ID too narrow to fit over the schrader valve. So too shallow and too narrow a hole.

    The freehub tool linked above would work. It is 20mm deep. However the splines are shallow and likely to strip the fork end cap.

    Iím guessing the 5.2 is deeper and doesnít have as narrow an ID.
    I finally got around to opening it up again. Park FR 5.2 worked just fine. Munch more clearance than my old FR5.

    I used an 8mm socket that in ground down with my dremel. Put the socket in my drill chuck (1/2Ē chuck so it fit) and spun it slowly in reverse. Used the dremel and standard grinding drum. Done in less than 10 minutes.

    I have the Park flat ground sockets, so all set with the proper 24mm socket.

    Setting the travel to 140mm was super easy.
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  51. #3051
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    One small down side to the Mattoc is that I discovered today installing my fork that the ID is too large to thread the steerer tube for the OneUp EDC tool top cap. Not a big deal, but that sure was nice having the tool always in the steerer tube.

  52. #3052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    One small down side to the Mattoc is that I discovered today installing my fork that the ID is too large to thread the steerer tube for the OneUp EDC tool top cap. Not a big deal, but that sure was nice having the tool always in the steerer tube.
    that's pretty surprising. I would have thought that the steerer tube was pretty standardized both inside and out.

  53. #3053
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    that's pretty surprising. I would have thought that the steerer tube was pretty standardized both inside and out.
    I recall reading somewhere (possibly buried on oneups site) that all manitou the ID is too big to use the EDC tool.

    I just mount the edc tool inside my edc pump instead.

  54. #3054
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    that's pretty surprising. I would have thought that the steerer tube was pretty standardized both inside and out.
    On the website they have a list of forks known to not be compatible and the Mattoc is not on there, but they also say to check first.

    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    I recall reading somewhere (possibly buried on oneups site) that all manitou the ID is too big to use the EDC tool.

    I just mount the edc tool inside my edc pump instead.
    That is probably what I will do, I love the EDC tool even if its not in the steerer tube.

  55. #3055
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    BTW, I installed the fork but I have not taken it apart to convert from 26 to 27.5 internal parts yet, I couldnt wait, so I rode around a bit in the back yard (which includes a good hill with roots and rocks). I installed the IRT, set main pressure to 50, IRT to 80, set the LSC to 2 and HSC to 1 and took it for a spin. Man, this thing is pluuuuuuuush, SO much better than the Fox 34 I took off and I have not even played with the air pressures, just the 50/80 ballpark starting point.

    I have had Manitou forks since my first suspension fork in 1991. Its a shame so many people get stuck on RS or Fox and wont even consider anything else. I have bikes with the original Manitou 1, Skareb, Marvels, Minutes, an R7 MRD and this Mattoc, they are all great forks, and the Mattoc is especially good considering the price it can be bought for.

    Manitou Mattoc-img_20171120_160949.jpg

    Manitou Mattoc-img_20171120_161025.jpg

  56. #3056
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    New mattoc service kit showed up with number 141-28528-K008_MANITOU. Anybody knows if it have better lower damper seal allowing to use 15ml of oil in lowers without damper overfill issues?

  57. #3057
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    Looking at a magnum, what are the differences in dampers between the magnum and mattoc? Are parts interchangeable?

    Edit: NVM, went back and found some older discussions.
    Last edited by Porch; 11-25-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  58. #3058
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    Hey, asking myself if I want to give a try to wide tyres. Whatís your experience with bigger tyres ? Which rims also?


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  59. #3059
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    I've now got the new seals installed (and a service, cheers Shockcraft), and three intense days of riding later and I'm surprised how good the fork feels. I've made virtually no changes other than increasing rebound damping as the fork has become much more sensitive. But I've got through several of my favourite (predominantly downhill) trails several seconds quicker purely because the fork is just eating everything up. I'm not sure what they've done but I like it.


  60. #3060
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    New mattoc service kit showed up with number 141-28528-K008_MANITOU. Anybody knows if it have better lower damper seal allowing to use 15ml of oil in lowers without damper overfill issues?
    Official word is still no. 7cc is the official figure for the long travel forks.

    But do whatever you want to your own fork.

    Sent with 100% recycled electrons.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  61. #3061
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Official word is still no. 7cc is the official figure for the long travel forks.

    But do whatever you want to your own fork.

    Sent with 100% recycled electrons.
    Cmon Dougal. Its not my imagination. I just read 15ml per leg in new service guide.

    https://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&sourc...IIZvZ3tI_ig3f3

  62. #3062
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    Well crap, I ordered a magnum but realized too late that it's a comp model.

    I'm 185lbs and fairly aggressive, so I really think I "need" the pro model (??). Is it worth trying to upgrade the internals or should I just sell it off? I notice that even the leg material is different on the spec sheet....
    Last edited by Porch; 11-26-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  63. #3063
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Cmon Dougal. Its not my imagination. I just read 15ml per leg in new service guide.

    https://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&sourc...IIZvZ3tI_ig3f3
    My boost comp had about 20ml of oil that drained out, maybe more. Definitely more than 15 and could have been 30. Some spilled so I didnít have it all to measure.
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  64. #3064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    My boost comp had about 20ml of oil that drained out, maybe more. Definitely more than 15 and could have been 30. Some spilled so I didnít have it all to measure.
    Back on post 3022, Dougall stated things to check on a new fork.
    I have taken 10 Manitou Mastodons apart, most of them new out of the box...and have found 2ml to 20ml in each leg.

  65. #3065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Official word is still no. 7cc is the official figure for the long travel forks.

    But do whatever you want to your own fork.

    Sent with 100% recycled electrons.
    I have been splitting the difference with 10cc with no migration issues.


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  66. #3066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    I have been splitting the difference with 10cc with no migration issues.


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    Same here

  67. #3067
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Cmon Dougal. Its not my imagination. I just read 15ml per leg in new service guide.

    https://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&sourc...IIZvZ3tI_ig3f3
    So you did. But Ed still says 7cc for the longer travel forks and I checked just last week. He's not a fan of me using more.

    The Mattoc/Magnum range has the 160mm forks which have very little dead volume in the lower legs and that is where the 7cc is supposed to be used.
    The Plus forks (140mm max) which have a lot of unused volume and are where 15cc is recommended.

    If you do choose to use more, check the damper oil level and air side negative chamber when you do your lower leg service.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  68. #3068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    So you did. But Ed still says 7cc for the longer travel forks and I checked just last week. He's not a fan of me using more.

    The Mattoc/Magnum range has the 160mm forks which have very little dead volume in the lower legs and that is where the 7cc is supposed to be used.
    The Plus forks (140mm max) which have a lot of unused volume and are where 15cc is recommended.

    If you do choose to use more, check the damper oil level and air side negative chamber when you do your lower leg service.
    Thanks

  69. #3069
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    I sold my 2015 Mattoc Pro last Friday. I was super happy but I wanted a bit stiffer fork.
    I've been through the forums once again and I found some great ad offerings on 36's & Pikes.
    Yesterday I ordered a Mattoc Pro 2 from CR.

  70. #3070
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    With the Thanksgiving holiday and being sick I have just now got around to converting my Mattoc from 26 to 27.5. The conversion is pretty simple, the one area I wish was more clear is the 27.5 HBO piston does not have the little castellated piece held on with the circlip on it in the package. It comes in the package with the fork but it is separate from the HBO piston, I started to put rebound damper back together when I noticed the old piston had those parts and those loose parts in the package. Fortunately I caught it early so it was no big deal, but neither the paper instructions nor the video on YouTube mention having to install this part on the HBO piston.

    I had no problem with my regular 6 point 24mm socket, and I bought a Park FR5 which I slotted myself, both worked fine. You can crack the air side loose and torque it with a regular deep 8mm socket and I used a 4mm allen wrench to get it the rest of the way in and out. I will buy/make a thin wall socket because getting it threaded back into the lower without a thin wall socket was a huge pain. I have a lathe so it will only take me a few minutes to turn down a cheap socket.

  71. #3071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    Well crap, I ordered a magnum but realized too late that it's a comp model.

    I'm 185lbs and fairly aggressive, so I really think I "need" the pro model (??). Is it worth trying to upgrade the internals or should I just sell it off? I notice that even the leg material is different on the spec sheet....
    If it has tge Dorado air spring (newer Comp models), I would rock it. The abs+ damper in the comp is very good, you just keep to adjust the shim stack internally rather than with the knobs (if needed at all)

    The leg material prevents damper swaps, thicker walls on the comp stanchions means smaller ID of the stanchion.. If you keep it, it's abs only.

    If it hasany spring system other than Dorado air, just sell it.

  72. #3072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    With the Thanksgiving holiday and being sick I have just now got around to converting my Mattoc from 26 to 27.5. The conversion is pretty simple, the one area I wish was more clear is the 27.5 HBO piston does not have the little castellated piece held on with the circlip on it in the package. It comes in the package with the fork but it is separate from the HBO piston, I started to put rebound damper back together when I noticed the old piston had those parts and those loose parts in the package. Fortunately I caught it early so it was no big deal, but neither the paper instructions nor the video on YouTube mention having to install this part on the HBO piston.
    The Hayes/Manitou service videos on YouTube are pretty good, and I am glad to have them. But I did the conversion a month ago myself - and you're right, they don't mention that part. All in all, easy change. This fork is so easy to do basic service.

  73. #3073
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    The Hayes/Manitou service videos on YouTube are pretty good, and I am glad to have them. But I did the conversion a month ago myself - and you're right, they don't mention that part. All in all, easy change. This fork is so easy to do basic service.
    The fork is super easy to work on, I bet I could change travel on it in 15 minutes. I too am glad Hayes/Manitou have those official videos on YouTube. Installing that little part is something that should be at least noted in the paper instructions if not also in the video though.

  74. #3074
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    When I received my Mattoc Pro IRT after a service performed by my LBS, the air pressure in the main chamber was 10 bar/145 PSI. This is nearly 25% above the max allowed pressure of 8.3 bar. The fork had been at the LBS for a week before I collected it.
    Will this have damaged anything and how can I check if everything is still ok?

  75. #3075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    When I received my Mattoc Pro IRT after a service performed by my LBS, the air pressure in the main chamber was 10 bar/145 PSI. This is nearly 25% above the max allowed pressure of 8.3 bar. The fork had been at the LBS for a week before I collected it.
    Will this have damaged anything and how can I check if everything is still ok?
    If it still holds air it'll be okay.

    But that's ridiculous. It must have taken them 15 minutes on a shock pump to do that!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  76. #3076
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    When I received it the travel was maybe 80mm. I think they thought the pressure was too low and increased it to increase travel.
    I then removed the lowers and found out that the damper rod pulled back and would not stay extended. After depressing the air valve with the rod extended the problem was solved.
    It sucks to have a Manitou fork in the Netherlands. The distributor themselves did not know about the updated air piston and 'forgot' to replace it despite specific requests (yes multiple) to do so.
    The LBS then ordered the piston themselves and installed it for me, but returned the fork with 145 PSI and 80mm travel...
    I still would like someone to convert my fork to 27.5 but am not sure the LBS would do a better job then me...

    Normally this would put me off of buying the same brand again. The only problem is, I just replaced my 26 inch bike with a 27.5 one that was build with a Fox 34 Performance GRIP fork. After a short ride it is already clear that the performance is nowhere near the Mattoc, maybe not even in the same universe... Hence my desire to convert the Mattoc to 27.5. The unavailability of a clamp and the right torque wrench for the damper side keeps me from doing it myself...

  77. #3077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    When I received my Mattoc Pro IRT after a service performed by my LBS, the air pressure in the main chamber was 10 bar/145 PSI. This is nearly 25% above the max allowed pressure of 8.3 bar. The fork had been at the LBS for a week before I collected it.
    Will this have damaged anything and how can I check if everything is still ok?
    The max pressure is what it is so the pressures don't get crazy high like 400 psi at the end of the stroke. When riding at normal pressure, it will hit 140psi pretty easily. I highly doubt any damage was done unless it was ridden at that pressure.


    Still crazy they would do put it that high.

  78. #3078
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    Thanks for the reassurance. This eases my mind somewhat.
    However, I agree that an official Manitou supplying LBS should not let this happen.

  79. #3079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    When I received it the travel was maybe 80mm. I think they thought the pressure was too low and increased it to increase travel.
    I then removed the lowers and found out that the damper rod pulled back and would not stay extended. After depressing the air valve with the rod extended the problem was solved.
    It sucks to have a Manitou fork in the Netherlands. The distributor themselves did not know about the updated air piston and 'forgot' to replace it despite specific requests (yes multiple) to do so.
    The LBS then ordered the piston themselves and installed it for me, but returned the fork with 145 PSI and 80mm travel...
    I still would like someone to convert my fork to 27.5 but am not sure the LBS would do a better job then me...

    Normally this would put me off of buying the same brand again. The only problem is, I just replaced my 26 inch bike with a 27.5 one that was build with a Fox 34 Performance GRIP fork. After a short ride it is already clear that the performance is nowhere near the Mattoc, maybe not even in the same universe... Hence my desire to convert the Mattoc to 27.5. The unavailability of a clamp and the right torque wrench for the damper side keeps me from doing it myself...
    You can covert it to 27.5 pretty easily. Just buy the tools and do it yourself. Just take your time

    You can just do the spacer under the rubber bottom out number if you wanted to avoid taking the damper out. The HBO circuit wouldn't be as effective, but it wouldn't hurt anything ( the same can not be said in reverse)

  80. #3080
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    Thanks, that might be the best temporary solution. Would this render the HBO completely useless or just less effective?

  81. #3081
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    Thanks, that might be the best temporary solution. Would this render the HBO completely useless or just less effective?
    I'd imagine a good bit less pronounced but would still produce damping at bottom out but kick in later and provide less peak damping.

    I say go for it as a temporary solution.

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  82. #3082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    I just replaced my 26 inch bike with a 27.5 one that was build with a Fox 34 Performance GRIP fork. After a short ride it is already clear that the performance is nowhere near the Mattoc, maybe not even in the same universe...
    I agree with others that storing the fork with 125% of max pressure should be totally harmless.

    Interesting observation about the Fox 34 GRIP! Any chance it will perform much better once broken in? That was certainly my experience with the Mattoc. You're in a great position to compare them back to back--most reviews I've seen of the GRIP have been quite positive, so I'd be curious how it measures up for you once broken in. What were its faults compared with the Mattoc?

  83. #3083
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    My gripes with the Fox 34 are mostly the following:
    1. No small bump compliance whatsoever > will most likely improve once broken in (although the Mattoc when fresh out of the box after being stored for 3 years was miles better in this regard)
    2. Heavy spike when hitting a large square bump
    3. Being overwhelmed when hitting multiple bumps in a row
    4. Only 3 compression damper settings, of which 1 fully open and 1 nearly locked out.
    5. No HSC settings

    While complaint number 1 might be solved when broken in, 2 and 3 seem to be damper related and 4 and 5 can't be fixed without buying a top of the line Fox 36 for 2 to 3 times the price of a Mattoc.
    The damper is in the fully open position, the air pressure was tried both at and significantly below recommended PSI and rebound was tried both fast and slow.
    It seems it's always the same story with Fox forks: every new generation seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to professional (magazine and website) reviews, but in practice turns out to be decent but nothing special, especially in view of the MSRP.

    Things might improve with internal tuning, but as it is I'm not impressed, especially as the MSRP is nearly 1K in the Netherlands. Fortunately it was part of a bike I am otherwise happy with and I can convert the Mattoc, which performed wonderfully in Alpe d'Huez last summer.

  84. #3084
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    I agree with others that storing the fork with 125% of max pressure should be totally harmless.

    Interesting observation about the Fox 34 GRIP! Any chance it will perform much better once broken in? That was certainly my experience with the Mattoc. You're in a great position to compare them back to back--most reviews I've seen of the GRIP have been quite positive, so I'd be curious how it measures up for you once broken in. What were its faults compared with the Mattoc?
    I just got a new bike with a 36 with the fit grip damper. I won't have it long, but I will be giving it some thrashing. Out of the box, it takes significantly more force to initiate movement compared to my mattoc.

    I don't have high hopes, and my performance expectations are significantly higher than an average rider, so we will see.

    I have no plans on riding the fox factory DPS shock at all. That will be replaced before the first ride.

  85. #3085
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    It seems it's always the same story with Fox forks: every new generation seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to professional (magazine and website) reviews, but in practice turns out to be decent but nothing special, especially in view of the MSRP.
    Thanks to you and mullen for the input--interesting stuff. And yeah, somebody pointed out how, with Fox, you never knew how crappy the fork/shock was until you read the reviews of the NEXT generation of Fox fork/shock, where they explained how much better it was than the not-very-good previous version, ha.

  86. #3086
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Thanks to you and mullen for the input--interesting stuff. And yeah, somebody pointed out how, with Fox, you never knew how crappy the fork/shock was until you read the reviews of the NEXT generation of Fox fork/shock, where they explained how much better it was than the not-very-good previous version, ha.
    LOL, true story.

  87. #3087
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Interesting observation about the Fox 34 GRIP! Any chance it will perform much better once broken in? That was certainly my experience with the Mattoc. You're in a great position to compare them back to back--most reviews I've seen of the GRIP have been quite positive, so I'd be curious how it measures up for you once broken in. What were its faults compared with the Mattoc?
    That's mostly because the GRIP damper replaced the EVO damper, and that one was truly a useless piece of junk. Any half functional damper is an improvement over the EVO damper.

    IMO Fox blew it with the GRIP damper. Fundamentally, it's the same as the excellent DBC damper used in my Marzocchi 350 NCR but Fox crippled its performance. And thanks to the way Fox did it, it's not something that can be easily fixed by a home mechanic, it'll take some shim stack work along with replacement and/or machining of various internal parts.

    To be honest, I'm not a fan at all of RS or Fox. The performance isn't there and the prices are stupid.

  88. #3088
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    IMO Fox blew it with the GRIP damper. ...Fox crippled its performance. .
    Highly unlikely that the limits on the GRIP damper are a mistake. How can they offer the next generation of greatest thing ever if the current one isn't somehow broken?

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-4-...tler-2017.html

  89. #3089
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    Highly unlikely that the limits on the GRIP damper are a mistake. How can they offer the next generation of greatest thing ever if the current one isn't somehow broken?

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-4-...tler-2017.html
    Good point. And that's why Fox is still on my boycott list.

  90. #3090
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    Mattocs on sale again for $240.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    I figured I would share this here. I see Bike Wagon has 26" Mattoc Pro forks on sale for $240 on eBay. I would prefer the Expert, but at this price this is hard to pass up. They have the same fork on Amazon for $291 and it says 17 available so me and 16 other people are going to get a killer deal.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mat...d/132360436359

    I am going to convert to 27.5, put in the new low friction seals, add IRT and reduce travel to 150mm for use on my '16 Yeti SB5 and replace the horribly harsh Fox 34.

  91. #3091
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Mattocs on sale again for $240.
    Showing at $400, any link? Thanks.


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  92. #3092
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    That ebay link i have there is currently at 240


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mat...d/132360436359


    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    Showing at $400, any link? Thanks.


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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  94. #3094
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    Highly unlikely that the limits on the GRIP damper are a mistake. How can they offer the next generation of greatest thing ever if the current one isn't somehow broken?

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-4-...tler-2017.html
    Even better than that is the thread about people buying their $1100 fork and needing to spend another $300-500 to make it feel ok. The MTB community is full of stupid sheep. It really is.

  95. #3095
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    That ebay link i have there is currently at 240


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mat...d/132360436359
    Thanks. Grabbed one. Going to run on my sonís hardtail at 120mm and can the Fox 32 fit 4 on it.


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  96. #3096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
    Even better than that is the thread about people buying their $1100 fork and needing to spend another $300-500 to make it feel ok. The MTB community is full of stupid sheep. It really is.
    It is shameful that Fox has such terrible QC that the 36 air piston varies so much in size that some forks are extremely harsh. People just want the name or donít know better. My buddy insisted on a 36, now wants a Diamond after riding mine. It just goes to show how screwy the market is. Manitou, DVO and MRP all have amazing customer service and arguably make better products than Fox or Rockshox for the same money or less. Despite this, sales for all three combined are probably 10% of Fox.


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  97. #3097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    It is shameful that Fox has such terrible QC that the 36 air piston varies so much in size that some forks are extremely harsh. People just want the name or donít know better. My buddy insisted on a 36, now wants a Diamond after riding mine. It just goes to show how screwy the market is. Manitou, DVO and MRP all have amazing customer service and arguably make better products than Fox or Rockshox for the same money or less. Despite this, sales for all three combined are probably 10% of Fox.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    It is amazing how much in bed with Fox all the MTB mags are. They must know that the Fox stuff is crap yet they keep pushing them. I have not ridden a DVO but my Mattoc and the MRP I have ridden, are fantastic and much better than the Fox crap.
    It is the Right of the People to Alter or to Abolish It.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    You can covert it to 27.5 pretty easily. Just buy the tools and do it yourself. Just take your time

    You can just do the spacer under the rubber bottom out number if you wanted to avoid taking the damper out. The HBO circuit wouldn't be as effective, but it wouldn't hurt anything ( the same can not be said in reverse)

    I I have a mattoc from a radon slide team edition which was very strong damped in that edition.
    Now with Irt installed and riding pressures between, 55-77 to 120-150 irt the fork is much to harsh at 90 kilo. Initially was well as in high speed stuff and the transition between lsc and hsc. Could you post an optimized shimstack please? I am sure you already have something nice up your sleeve.
    Thank you in advance

  99. #3099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1987 View Post
    My gripes with the Fox 34 are mostly the following:
    1. No small bump compliance whatsoever > will most likely improve once broken in (although the Mattoc when fresh out of the box after being stored for 3 years was miles better in this regard)
    2. Heavy spike when hitting a large square bump
    3. Being overwhelmed when hitting multiple bumps in a row
    4. Only 3 compression damper settings, of which 1 fully open and 1 nearly locked out.
    5. No HSC settings

    While complaint number 1 might be solved when broken in, 2 and 3 seem to be damper related and 4 and 5 can't be fixed without buying a top of the line Fox 36 for 2 to 3 times the price of a Mattoc.
    The damper is in the fully open position, the air pressure was tried both at and significantly below recommended PSI and rebound was tried both fast and slow.
    It seems it's always the same story with Fox forks: every new generation seems to be the best thing since sliced bread according to professional (magazine and website) reviews, but in practice turns out to be decent but nothing special, especially in view of the MSRP.

    Things might improve with internal tuning, but as it is I'm not impressed, especially as the MSRP is nearly 1K in the Netherlands. Fortunately it was part of a bike I am otherwise happy with and I can convert the Mattoc, which performed wonderfully in Alpe d'Huez last summer.
    I rode my 2017 Fox 34 with GRIP damper for 10 months and I can tell you that it never got better with break in time. I agree with 1,2 and 3 especially. I could get by with 3 settings IF the open setting was decently plush, and its not, its more like an XC tuned fork. My brand new Mattoc with the original non-low friction seals and zero ride time is way more responsive to small bumps with better initial breakaway than the 34.

  100. #3100
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    Hrmm, just stripped the air-spring nut with a slotted FR5.2--either the nut strips quite easily, or I turned it the wrong direction (got rewired by the previous two clockwise operations??), or I'm just a ham-fisted hack (or some combination of above). Do I have any decent options here? I tried some teflon tape around the cassette tool, but no luck. I've now liberally applied threadlock to the cassette tool while it's sitting in the nut and am letting it dry overnight to see if that adds enough grip to get by. I was patting myself on the back for getting the first two correct. Dumbass.

  101. #3101
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    Manitou Mattoc

    $240 Mattoc on the kidís hardtail set to 120mm. Selling the Fox 32 on pinkbike if anyone wants one. I had to walk him through dropping the lowers to shorten and install the fork, since I canít really use my left hand.


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  102. #3102
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    Can I get the Cayenne?
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  103. #3103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Can I get the Cayenne?
    6 Speed! Took me a while to find.


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  104. #3104
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Hrmm, just stripped the air-spring nut with a slotted FR5.2--either the nut strips quite easily, or I turned it the wrong direction (got rewired by the previous two clockwise operations??), or I'm just a ham-fisted hack (or some combination of above). Do I have any decent options here? I tried some teflon tape around the cassette tool, but no luck. I've now liberally applied threadlock to the cassette tool while it's sitting in the nut and am letting it dry overnight to see if that adds enough grip to get by. I was patting myself on the back for getting the first two correct. Dumbass.
    Correction, I was using a Park FR1.2. Disaster--the splines are are just tall enough to make it seem like it will work, but it won't, it just strips the nut. Not sure how I decided the FR1.2 was what I needed--I bought it specifically for this task. I was able to cannibalize an old Nashbar cassette tool to salvage the job. Proceed with caution, or suck it up and buy the Manitou kit. The Manitou kit seems overpriced, but a lot of that has to do with severely underpaying for the fork itself.

  105. #3105
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Correction, I was using a Park FR1.2. Disaster--the splines are are just tall enough to make it seem like it will work, but it won't, it just strips the nut. Not sure how I decided the FR1.2 was what I needed--I bought it specifically for this task. I was able to cannibalize an old Nashbar cassette tool to salvage the job. Proceed with caution, or suck it up and buy the Manitou kit. The Manitou kit seems overpriced, but a lot of that has to do with severely underpaying for the fork itself.
    I too nearly used a freewheel tool. I used a regular FR5 (not slotted) and compressed the shaft. It fits over with room to spare. No need to slot it. My 15+ year old cassette tool is not deep enough. You need one of the newer ones.
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  106. #3106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I too nearly used a freewheel tool. I used a regular FR5 (not slotted) and compressed the shaft. It fits over with room to spare. No need to slot it. My 15+ year old cassette tool is not deep enough. You need one of the newer ones.
    I use the FR5 and prefer it to the Manitou tool which wants to compress and slip on occasion.


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    Last edited by Cary; 12-11-2017 at 12:31 PM.
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  107. #3107
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    After finding the courage to replace the HBO cone with the 27.5 version, the rebound knob become stuck. This happened even before I opened the rebound assembly, just after removing the lowers, placing the spacers on the airside and putting everything back together.
    I have now opened the rebound assembly and replaced the HBO cone, but the rebound adjuster will not turn without excessive force. How could this have happened and do I now need a new rebound assembly (costing one third of the total fork price...) ?

  108. #3108
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    Reattaching the lowers??

    Those of you who can disassemble/reassemble a Mattoc in your sleep--how do you start the threads on the damper side? The spring side is easy because of the air pressure, but my damper rod just wants to spin in place without threading.

  109. #3109
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Those of you who can disassemble/reassemble a Mattoc in your sleep--how do you start the threads on the damper side? The spring side is easy because of the air pressure, but my damper rod just wants to spin in place without threading.
    When you insert the Hex key, tilt it slightly, this will create some friction and will allows you to pull the damper shaft while rotating it counter clock wise, don't forget it, it's counter clock wise. It may took you a couple of times to get the hang of it.

  110. #3110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    When you insert the Hex key, tilt it slightly, this will create some friction and will allows you to pull the dumper shaft while rotating it counter clock wise, don't forget it, it's counter clock wise. It may took you a couple of times to get the hang of it.
    It also helps to crank the low and high speed compression shut to get some resistance.


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  111. #3111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    When you insert the Hex key, tilt it slightly, this will create some friction and will allows you to pull the damper shaft while rotating it counter clock wise, don't forget it, it's counter clock wise. It may took you a couple of times to get the hang of it.
    Huh, I was indeed trying to do that--I guess I'll get better at it with practice. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    It also helps to crank the low and high speed compression shut to get some resistance.

    Oh, good tip! But the knobs are still off, right? Do you set it before disassembly, or put the knobs on temporarily, or what?
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  112. #3112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    6 Speed! Took me a while to find.


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    That is rare. I have always loved this video of a Cayenne racing a bunch of garbage SUVs on a track. Absolutely hilarious.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNKtKAGnYQ
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  113. #3113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I just got a new bike with a 36 with the fit grip damper. I won't have it long, but I will be giving it some thrashing. Out of the box, it takes significantly more force to initiate movement compared to my mattoc.

    I don't have high hopes, and my performance expectations are significantly higher than an average rider, so we will see.

    I have no plans on riding the fox factory DPS shock at all. That will be replaced before the first ride.

    Mullen?
    I would be really happy about a recommendation from you as you certainly have a comp shimstack for the mattoc which is pretty nailed :-)

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  114. #3114
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    Does anyone know the widest 27.5" tire that fits in the 26" mattoc pro that's converted to 27.5"?

  115. #3115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjyoung View Post
    Does anyone know the widest 27.5" tire that fits in the 26" mattoc pro that's converted to 27.5"?
    I think it was mentioned that the 26" lowers have a 555 axle to arch, where as the proper 27.5 has a 565 axle to arch. Pics of the 27.5 show a 2.8 tire just clearing it. Losing 10mm of arch clearance will probably be a no-go for plus tires. But not having either in my possession, I cant really comment with certainty.

  116. #3116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    That is rare. I have always loved this video of a Cayenne racing a bunch of garbage SUVs on a track. Absolutely hilarious.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNKtKAGnYQ
    It handles amazingly well for a lifted station wagon. It stinks as an off road vehicle (I donít care what the Porsche weinees think). A great trip car, but I still took my 96 Toyota Land Cruiser with 250k miles to Whistler this summer, a 2000 mile round trip.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  117. #3117
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjyoung View Post
    Does anyone know the widest 27.5" tire that fits in the 26" mattoc pro that's converted to 27.5"?
    An E13 TRS+ comfortably clears, as does a Maxxis DHF 2.6 (only 2mm wider). Both on 30mm internal rims.


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  118. #3118
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjyoung View Post
    Does anyone know the widest 27.5" tire that fits in the 26" mattoc pro that's converted to 27.5"?
    Not the best pictures but this is my 26" Pro fork with a 27.5 DHF 2.5 on 30mm rims. Plenty of room even with a mud guard, more clearance than the picture shows.
    Manitou Mattoc-img_20171213_092815.jpgManitou Mattoc-img_20171213_092823.jpg

  119. #3119
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    The 26 and 27.5 lowers are the same aren't they?

    My 27.5 has a DHF2.6 with a mudgaurd fitted (29mm iw rim). I can only run super low tread 2.8s (i.e. Rocket Ron, without a mudgaurd) and it's tight.

  120. #3120
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    The 26 and 27.5 lowers are the same aren't they?
    No, they have different offsets and I assume more clearance at the arch on the 27.5.

  121. #3121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kartwheel68 View Post
    No, they have different offsets and I assume more clearance at the arch on the 27.5.
    If I Remember correctly, the offset is in the CSU and the lowers are identical. There is no tire clearance diffrence at the crown.

    I will double check, or I'm sure dougal will chime in. Pretty sure I'm correct

  122. #3122
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    Fork offset is in the uppers. So clearance to the crown at bottom-out might differ, but that shouldn't change clearance to the arch.

  123. #3123
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    Yes, that is right, dont know what I was thinking.

  124. #3124
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I think it was mentioned that the 26" lowers have a 555 axle to arch, where as the proper 27.5 has a 565 axle to arch. Pics of the 27.5 show a 2.8 tire just clearing it. Losing 10mm of arch clearance will probably be a no-go for plus tires. But not having either in my possession, I cant really comment with certainty.
    No, they're both 555 since the first day ;-) The 27.5 only has 10mm less travel, whereas the 26 offers 170mm stroke

  125. #3125
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    If I Remember correctly, the offset is in the CSU and the lowers are identical. There is no tire clearance diffrence at the crown.

    I will double check, or I'm sure dougal will chime in. Pretty sure I'm correct
    Yep, dead right. Lowers are the same for 26" and 27". Difference is 10mm more downtravel (changed with HBO cone and 10mm spacer under bumper) and less crown offset in the 26's.

    Personally I think less crown offset is a good thing.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  126. #3126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    No, they're both 555 since the first day ;-) The 27.5 only has 10mm less travel, whereas the 26 offers 170mm stroke
    Yeah, after thinking about it, that number must have been axle to crown, not axle to arch. So the extra travel being the difference would make sense.

  127. #3127
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    If I Remember correctly, the offset is in the CSU and the lowers are identical. There is no tire clearance diffrence at the crown.

    I will double check, or I'm sure dougal will chime in. Pretty sure I'm correct

    Would be really grateful about an answer and info from you about the optimized shimstack ;-)

  128. #3128
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    It is just a 26 mattoc not being allowed to dive down to 170mm travel by a spacer and different HBO cone

  129. #3129
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    It is just a 26 mattoc not being allowed to dive down to 170mm travel by a spacer and different HBO cone
    I thought a 26 mattoc is just a 27.5 without a spacer and a different HBO cone!

  130. #3130
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    Could anybody please check distance between seal and crown like marked on attached picture for mattoc 160mm 27,5?


  131. #3131
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Could anybody please check distance between seal and crown like marked on attached picture for mattoc 160mm 27,5?


  132. #3132
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    Great, thank you!

  133. #3133
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikon255 View Post
    Great, thank you!
    Whats going on with that cap in the picture? I have only been inside my mattocs a handful of times, and it doesnt quite look like that?

  134. #3134
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Whats going on with that cap in the picture? I have only been inside my mattocs a handful of times, and it doesnt quite look like that?
    Looks like a coil wrapped in (too much) heat-shrink.
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  135. #3135
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    Which is why he cut out part of the photo?
    Didnt want to show the adapter or who made it?

    Top secret stuffs here!


    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Looks like a coil wrapped in (too much) heat-shrink.

  136. #3136
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    Maybe an IVA turned IRT via coil spring.

  137. #3137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjyoung View Post
    Does anyone know the widest 27.5" tire that fits in the 26" mattoc pro that's converted to 27.5"?
    I have a few rides on my newly converted 26" fork and a 27.5x2.5WT DHF on 35mm i.w. WTB asym rim. I run low tire pressures. I've buzzed the arch a couple of times on flat landings. I'm glad I didn't go with a 2.6" DHF.

  138. #3138
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    That's interesting, did it buzz the centre or side of the arch? Could be the 35mm rim that does it.

  139. #3139
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    I have a Vittoria Morsa 26x2.3 up front and I briefly had a MuckyNutz reverse-arch specific fender and had to remove it. It had very little clearance on the shoulder knobs and rubbed twice landing jumps. Probably wheel flex.

    It did this once when set to 26" and then again when I converted to 27.5. So, off came the MuckyNutz.

  140. #3140
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    That's interesting, did it buzz the centre or side of the arch? Could be the 35mm rim that does it.
    Hmm. This is what the tire looks like at 28 miles, inflated to ~50 psi. The mold nipples are gone on both rows of knobs on the brake side of the tire (at least on this section of the tire).

    The dish of the rim is visibly off (can't tell from the pic)--there's ~1-2mm less clearance on the nipple-free side. I will take the wheel back to my wheel builder and demand that he fix it. He is inexperienced (5th wheel built), doesn't own a truing stand, was drinking moderately during some of the work (which was spread over multiple evenings), and was initially working without benefit of a tensiometer, because his new tensiometer was taking forEVER to get to California from Chain Reaction during the holiday rush. He also didn't follow a careful protocol for bedding the spokes--I just spot-checked the tension on a handful, and some have drifted out of range by a couple of units. So with a wheel built by a pro, or even a competent amateur, a 2.6" DHF might have no trouble. I personally am stuck with this wheel builder for the rest of my life, so it's probably good to have the .1" cushion--though he will presumably get better at his craft with a little more practice. I will insist that he fix the wheel today before going for a ride, and will report back after a little more mileage!

    Manitou Mattoc-img_2894.jpg

    Edit--I'm disappointed to realize that the spoke length calculator at #1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER didn't take into account the asymmetrical rim, despite having the exact rim in its dropdown menu. It appears it calculated the spoke length based on the distance from each flange to the centerline of the rim.
    Last edited by phile; 12-18-2017 at 10:45 AM. Reason: more info

  141. #3141
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Hmm. This is what the tire looks like at 28 miles, inflated to ~50 psi. The mold nipples are gone on both rows of knobs on the brake side of the tire (at least on this section of the tire).

    The dish of the rim is visibly off (can't tell from the pic)--there's ~1-2mm less clearance on the nipple-free side. I will take the wheel back to my wheel builder and demand that he fix it. He is inexperienced (5th wheel built), doesn't own a truing stand, was drinking moderately during some of the work (which was spread over multiple evenings), and was initially working without benefit of a tensiometer, because his new tensiometer was taking forEVER to get to California from Chain Reaction during the holiday rush. He also didn't follow a careful protocol for bedding the spokes--I just spot-checked the tension on a handful, and some have drifted out of range by a couple of units. So with a wheel built by a pro, or even a competent amateur, a 2.6" DHF might have no trouble. I personally am stuck with this wheel builder for the rest of my life, so it's probably good to have the .1" cushion--though he will presumably get better at his craft with a little more practice. I will insist that he fix the wheel today before going for a ride, and will report back after a little more mileage!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Edit--I'm disappointed to realize that the spoke length calculator at #1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER didn't take into account the asymmetrical rim, despite having the exact rim in its dropdown menu. It appears it calculated the spoke length based on the distance from each flange to the centerline of the rim.
    This may be post of the year. I am not sure whether to laugh at you or cry for you.


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  142. #3142
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    The dish between truing stands and forks, or fork to fork can easily be off a mm or two even for a seasoned builder, IMO. Even if the spoke calculator did not take the dish into consideration, youre pretty close to dished correctly, and theres a good chance you can pull the wheel over 1-2 mm with the spokes you already have. If not, you can add nipple washers to gain you an extra turn if necessary. But more importantly than dish, make sure your tension is correct and even.

    But honestly, if you're familiar enough with the building process to micromanage your wheel builder to this degree, why did you not just build them up yourself?

  143. #3143
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    Pretty sure he is his own wheelbuilder which is why he is "stuck with him for the rest of my life"




    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    The dish between truing stands and forks, or fork to fork can easily be off a mm or two even for a seasoned builder, IMO. Even if the spoke calculator did not take the dish into consideration, youre pretty close to dished correctly, and theres a good chance you can pull the wheel over 1-2 mm with the spokes you already have. If not, you can add nipple washers to gain you an extra turn if necessary. But more importantly than dish, make sure your tension is correct and even.

    But honestly, if you're familiar enough with the building process to micromanage your wheel builder to this degree, why did you not just build them up yourself?

  144. #3144
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Pretty sure he is his own wheelbuilder which is why he is "stuck with him for the rest of my life"
    I skimmed his post too lightly.

    Now I'm embarrassed.

    I was thinking to myself, God, what kind of person is so demanding and overbearing as to monitor alcohol intake, when they know their wheel builder is inexperienced. I'm gonna chalk this oversight to last night's bout of insomnia, leaving me walking around like zombie today. My apologies for any asshattery I may have contributed to this thread.

  145. #3145
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    Wheel flex is also a real thing. Clearing static does not mean it'll clear under a hard impact!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  146. #3146
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    I'd be worried if I'd at least heard it buzz or seen a sign of it rubbing, but my DHF2.6 on Flow mk3 has been fine. I've hit some decent drops on DH trails with it and not had an issue, however I'm not very heavy which could be a factor. I run around 17psi.

    I also still have a mudguard fitted, so it's not THAT tight. I need to remove it when running a Rocket Ron 2.8 (biggest tyre I dare run).

  147. #3147
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post
    I was thinking to myself, God, what kind of person is so demanding and overbearing as to monitor alcohol intake, when they know their wheel builder is inexperienced.
    Ha, my wheel builder appreciates you looking out for him, and raises his beer to you!

    The complaint about the calculator was kind of an aside--based on the info it gave me, I had bought spokes that were 1mm different for each side. When I put the wheel together, I used the longer spokes on the brake side, because the spoke holes are offset quite a bit toward the drivetrain side. I didn't realize until today that the calculator had wanted me to use the longer spokes on the other side, because it assumed my spoke holes were in the center of the rim. The fact that the wheel was in the calculator's database gave me false confidence about the info it was spitting out. I should have just bought 32 identical spokes--it would have simplified things for my novice wheel builder once he cracked beer #2.

  148. #3148
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    I'd be worried if I'd at least heard it buzz or seen a sign of it rubbing, but my DHF2.6 on Flow mk3 has been fine. I've hit some decent drops on DH trails with it and not had an issue, however I'm not very heavy which could be a factor. I run around 17psi.

    I also still have a mudguard fitted, so it's not THAT tight. I need to remove it when running a Rocket Ron 2.8 (biggest tyre I dare run).
    I'm gonna speculate that my 6mm wider rim is the difference between your experience and mine. I weigh ~135 lbs and have been running the 2.5WT DHF at 16-17 psi so far. It could also be influenced by my dish being slightly off. My spoke tension might be lower too, and the rim itself might be inherently flexier. Cheers!

  149. #3149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Wheel flex is also a real thing. Clearing static does not mean it'll clear under a hard impact!
    Why am I constantly ignored when asking for a proposal for an optimized compression stack? ;-)

  150. #3150
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    Mattoc's - best kept secret in suspension

    Been lurking on this thread for some time after fitting a new set of Mattoc's to one of my bikes.

    After a small amount of relatively easy internal fettling (thanks to Dougal's various posts) they're spot-on. At a fraction of the cost of new Pike's I'd recommend them to anyone. Rode them back to back against my old open bath Fox 32's they're light years ahead.
    My observations:-

    Pro's
    • Easy to adjust to required stroke
    • Completely home serviceable by any experienced mechanic
    • All the popular adjustments and they work
    • Air spring pressure guidance spot-on
    • Good small bump compliance
    • Stiff enough for for your average rider

    Con's
    • Some internal fettling required to get running A1
    • Minutely heavier than the competition


    Hayes is the only manufacturer that I've seen publish custom valving (shim pack) information alongside the respective shock dyno plots. Top marks Hayes!

    I would buy another set for my son but i reckon this is the only way to keep ahead.

  151. #3151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dombush View Post

    I would buy another set for my son but i reckon this is the only way to keep ahead.
    Good luck with that. I used to think the same thing, but nowadays he could beat me on a tricycle.


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  152. #3152
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    I pulled the damper from my wife's 2017 (2018?) Mattoc Comp Boost 27.5. It says ABS+ on the top cap, but the damper doesn't look quite like the one on the ABS damper thread. This one has a gold piston and the end of the shaft has a different nut. This one has a cylinder with three holes.

    The shim stack looks to be the Trail CV-11711-01: Velocity shim, small ring shim, platform shim. I forgot to measure the OD and thickness. That should be a good for her, low platform and HSC.
    Manitou Mattoc-2017-12-26-14.27.33.jpg
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  153. #3153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I pulled the damper from my wife's 2017 (2018?) Mattoc Comp Boost 27.5. It says ABS+ on the top cap, but the damper doesn't look quite like the one on the ABS damper thread. This one has a gold piston and the end of the shaft has a different nut. This one has a cylinder with three holes.

    The shim stack looks to be the Trail CV-11711-01: Velocity shim, small ring shim, platform shim. I forgot to measure the OD and thickness. That should be a good for her, low platform and HSC.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's not going to look identical to the abs+ thread. The fork in that thread is a 32mm stanchioned fork and is from 2010. The piece on the bottom is one of the HBO cones. Consider it an updated version of the ABS+ damper

  154. #3154
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    It's not going to look identical to the abs+ thread. The fork in that thread is a 32mm stanchioned fork and is from 2010. The piece on the bottom is one of the HBO cones. Consider it an updated version of the ABS+ damper
    Does this mean it has some level of HBO? Or just using similar parts but not the whole system so it has the standard bumper and nothing more?

    I did find a tuning kit that shows red, green, and gold/yellow pistons. Anyone know the difference between pistons? HSC/LSC valve sizes? Diameter for different size forks?
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  155. #3155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Does this mean it has some level of HBO? Or just using similar parts but not the whole system so it has the standard bumper and nothing more?

    I did find a tuning kit that shows red, green, and gold/yellow pistons. Anyone know the difference between pistons? HSC/LSC valve sizes? Diameter for different size forks?
    It has a preset HBO system. No adjustment, but it is there and functions.

    The old abs+ kit had diffrent colored pistons for diffrent forks based on the inside diameter of the stanchions. (Based on stanchion materials having diffrent ID's). To my knowledge, there is no diffrence in valving ports between pistons, only the piston OD is diffrent.

  156. #3156
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    First real ride for her and she noticed it was smooth deep in the travel. No spiking like the Pike RC.

    Two odd things though:
    The rebound range seems slow. Wide open it is slow enough I can compress the fork and remove my hands and not even close to the front wheel lifting. It is quite easy to get your hands out of the way too. My diamond and her pike are much faster to the point of being pogo stick fast. The slowest setting is so slow I canít imagine using it. The fast option now might be fast enough but I definitely would like faster to try.

    When it does rebound I can pull up the crown and get it to extend another 4-5mm.

    It is brand new so may just be stictuon the goes away in time with use.
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    Fork oils

    For any lightweights considering trying a lighter oil, just fyi--

    When I changed my fork oil, I switched from Maxima 5 wt (15.8 cst) to 3 wt (14.0 cst). I also upgraded to the new seals, so I don't know how much that affected the feel, but the overall effect was drastic--I had been running everything wide open (@33psi), and now it felt like I needed to max out the rebound and HSC to get in the same ballpark. So I removed a very small amount of oil and replaced it with 7 wt (21.00 cst). It still felt underdamped so I did that a second time. Now it feels great, though I'm still sorting out the setup, and have been trying 40 psi. The downside, other than the hassle, is that I'll have to start over on the setup the next time I change the oil, since I now have a mystery custom viscosity.

  158. #3158
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    For any lightweights considering trying a lighter oil, just fyi--

    When I changed my fork oil, I switched from Maxima 5 wt (15.8 cst) to 3 wt (14.0 cst). I also upgraded to the new seals, so I don't know how much that affected the feel, but the overall effect was drastic--I had been running everything wide open (@33psi), and now it felt like I needed to max out the rebound and HSC to get in the same ballpark. So I removed a very small amount of oil and replaced it with 7 wt (21.00 cst). It still felt underdamped so I did that a second time. Now it feels great, though I'm still sorting out the setup, and have been trying 40 psi. The downside, other than the hassle, is that I'll have to start over on the setup the next time I change the oil, since I now have a mystery custom viscosity.
    How much do you weigh?
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  159. #3159
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    For any lightweights considering trying a lighter oil, just fyi--

    When I changed my fork oil, I switched from Maxima 5 wt (15.8 cst) to 3 wt (14.0 cst). I also upgraded to the new seals, so I don't know how much that affected the feel, but the overall effect was drastic--I had been running everything wide open (@33psi), and now it felt like I needed to max out the rebound and HSC to get in the same ballpark. So I removed a very small amount of oil and replaced it with 7 wt (21.00 cst). It still felt underdamped so I did that a second time. Now it feels great, though I'm still sorting out the setup, and have been trying 40 psi. The downside, other than the hassle, is that I'll have to start over on the setup the next time I change the oil, since I now have a mystery custom viscosity.
    There is so little difference in the viscosity of those oils, the difference you are feeling is from reduced seal drag.


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  160. #3160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    There is so little difference in the viscosity of those oils, the difference you are feeling is from reduced seal drag.
    Wow! That's really impressive--it's a completely different fork now. I was quite surprised at how much the oil seemed to affect it--good to know that the oil wasn't really a factor. I'm always accidentally changing too many variables.

    Doug, I weigh 135 without gear.

  161. #3161
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    I'm back on a Mattoc Pro and pleaeed so far.

    I had a pair on my Ti Switchback but they looked a bit odd so I swapped to 350NCR's but I struggled with the set up (nice and plush but easy to bottom out or better bottom out resistance but not enough small bump compliance). Switched to a pair of Yari's with a Luftkappe installed which seemed better but still wasn't happy especially on fast repeated hits where the fork really struggled to recover.

    I was convinced that a pair of coil MRP's or the coil 27.5 Ohlins were going to be the answer but then thought back to how much I liked my Mattocs I had on my Stanton. They were cheap at CRC plus my BC discount, I thought I'd give these a whirl again on my Scout. I may add the IRT in the future, but will see. They appear to be bloody plush even after a few hours riding and look much better with the black stanchions.

    Manitou Mattoc-img_5397.jpg

  162. #3162
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindmap3 View Post
    I was convinced that a pair of coil MRP's or the coil 27.5 Ohlins
    I'm not sure ÷hlins have made a coil 650B fork yet? Well a proper one, not the 29/650B Fattie.

  163. #3163
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindmap3 View Post
    I'm back on a Mattoc Pro and pleaeed so far.

    I had a pair on my Ti Switchback but they looked a bit odd so I swapped to 350NCR's but I struggled with the set up (nice and plush but easy to bottom out or better bottom out resistance but not enough small bump compliance). Switched to a pair of Yari's with a Luftkappe installed which seemed better but still wasn't happy especially on fast repeated hits where the fork really struggled to recover.

    I was convinced that a pair of coil MRP's or the coil 27.5 Ohlins were going to be the answer but then thought back to how much I liked my Mattocs I had on my Stanton. They were cheap at CRC plus my BC discount, I thought I'd give these a whirl again on my Scout. I may add the IRT in the future, but will see. They appear to be bloody plush even after a few hours riding and look much better with the black stanchions.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice looking bike. Recommend first getting the new seals, which may not be installed on your fork. Makes a huge difference in small bump compliance. IRT is fantastic and really can give you any ride you want.
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  164. #3164
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Mullen?
    I would be really happy about a recommendation from you as you certainly have a comp shimstack for the mattoc which is pretty nailed :-)

    @Dougul

    A proposal from you?
    I just saw this, sorry.

    I pretty much run the stock mattoc stacks. I have tried others, but keep going back to stock. It just works.

  165. #3165
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    For any lightweights considering trying a lighter oil, just fyi--

    When I changed my fork oil, I switched from Maxima 5 wt (15.8 cst) to 3 wt (14.0 cst). I also upgraded to the new seals, so I don't know how much that affected the feel, but the overall effect was drastic--I had been running everything wide open (@33psi), and now it felt like I needed to max out the rebound and HSC to get in the same ballpark. So I removed a very small amount of oil and replaced it with 7 wt (21.00 cst). It still felt underdamped so I did that a second time. Now it feels great, though I'm still sorting out the setup, and have been trying 40 psi. The downside, other than the hassle, is that I'll have to start over on the setup the next time I change the oil, since I now have a mystery custom viscosity.
    So my recommendation is to always use the lightest oil you can reasonably obtain. Which is about 15 cSt at 40C.

    Note that oils vary hugely from that 40C. The worst I've found gets 7x thicker from 40C to 0C. The best is under 3x thicker. Motorex 2.5wt is about 5x thicker.

    It is better for the damper performance and maintenance to run thinner oil and more compression damping on the top dials. Running thicker oil and the top dials open creates negative pressures inside on fast hits which can suck in air and cause foaming.
    Easy to fix that (oil change), but better to avoid.

    Performance wise thicker oils create too much damping in the piston ports on faster compression which can make the fork harsher. Quadratic, double the shaft speed and get 4x the damping. That's never good.

    I'd suggest you go for Maxima 3wt and dial in more LSC and HSC.
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  166. #3166
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    Quote Originally Posted by bansaiman View Post
    Why am I constantly ignored when asking for a proposal for an optimized compression stack? ;-)
    Sorry, been busy. Also always testing different stuff so it gets complicated. Especially because recently this changed my tuning scheme completely!

    My first Mattoc was this:
    Piston 8x17.5x0.1 8x11x0.25 10x21x0.2

    My second Mattoc was this:
    Piston 10x21x0.2

    My third is this:
    Piston 8x17.5x0.1 8x11x0.25 10x21x0.2

    Mrs Dougal is riding this:
    Piston 8x17.5x0.1 8x15x0.1 10x20.5x0.15 10x12x0.2
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  167. #3167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    I'm not sure ÷hlins have made a coil 650B fork yet? Well a proper one, not the 29/650B Fattie.
    Theyre on the way, due Q2 this year apparently. UK price is pretty high but not a million miles away from the Ribbon.

    If I can get the Mattoc's how I want them to feel, I'll save my money.

  168. #3168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nice looking bike. Recommend first getting the new seals, which may not be installed on your fork. Makes a huge difference in small bump compliance. IRT is fantastic and really can give you any ride you want.
    Is there an easy way to check? There was a grey foam ring under the seals when I removed the lowers to change the travel. It was certainly very easy to get the lowers back on so hoping I might have the new seals.

    The thing I hope the IRT will give me is an easy breakaway for small bump compliance without the fork wallowing too much on steeper sections or under breaking. For the money it does seem hard to beat the Mattoc but they just need to shake off the Manipoo tag especially here in the U.K. where they have a bad reputation.

  169. #3169
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindmap3 View Post
    Is there an easy way to check? There was a grey foam ring under the seals when I removed the lowers to change the travel. It was certainly very easy to get the lowers back on so hoping I might have the new seals.

    The thing I hope the IRT will give me is an easy breakaway for small bump compliance without the fork wallowing too much on steeper sections or under breaking. For the money it does seem hard to beat the Mattoc but they just need to shake off the Manipoo tag especially here in the U.K. where they have a bad reputation.
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba9-iIbF...raftsuspension

    But yes, foam rings mean the low friction seals. Old were four piece (seperate oil seals under) which sealed well but grabbed a lot in the cold.

    IRT will do that. Great mid-stroke support. I run 40/60psi.
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  170. #3170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba9-iIbF...raftsuspension

    But yes, foam rings mean the low friction seals. Old were four piece (seperate oil seals under) which sealed well but grabbed a lot in the cold.

    IRT will do that. Great mid-stroke support. I run 40/60psi.
    Brill thanks for that.

    I'll let the forks break in and think about the IRT one I've ridden and fiddled with the stock set up (I'm running the air piston as large as possible).

  171. #3171
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindmap3 View Post
    I'm back on a Mattoc Pro and pleaeed so far.

    I had a pair on my Ti Switchback but they looked a bit odd so I swapped to 350NCR's but I struggled with the set up (nice and plush but easy to bottom out or better bottom out resistance but not enough small bump compliance).
    Interesting. I have the same forks and didn't have that issue with my 350 NCR, though I can see how it might happen since the 350 uses a fixed coil negative spring instead of an auto-adjusting air negative spring like most other forks. If you don't mind me asking, what was your air pressure and compression setup like on the 350NCR? I have mine at about 75psi and the compression damper 10 clicks out from fully closed, when setup this way it feels pretty close to my Mattoc Pro (mine has the IRT upgrade).

  172. #3172
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    Interesting. I have the same forks and didn't have that issue with my 350 NCR, though I can see how it might happen since the 350 uses a fixed coil negative spring instead of an auto-adjusting air negative spring like most other forks. If you don't mind me asking, what was your air pressure and compression setup like on the 350NCR? I have mine at about 75psi and the compression damper 10 clicks out from fully closed, when setup this way it feels pretty close to my Mattoc Pro (mine has the IRT upgrade).
    Air pressure wasn't a million miles away from yours at maybe 85psi. I tried adding some oil to the air spring but couldn't get them how I want in terms of plushness, sensitivity and support. My 380 Ti's on my Demo are ace though.

  173. #3173
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    I'm considering at Mattoc 27.5 at 160mm. Anyone have any feedback on how stiff these are compared to a Pike/Lyric/Ribbon/Fox36?

    Obviously i'm not expecting a 34mm chassis to be as stiff as those competitors, but I'm curious how close they are.

  174. #3174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I'm considering at Mattoc 27.5 at 160mm. Anyone have any feedback on how stiff these are compared to a Pike/Lyric/Ribbon/Fox36?

    Obviously i'm not expecting a 34mm chassis to be as stiff as those competitors, but I'm curious how close they are.
    Iíve just swapped a Yari (same chassis as a Lyrik) and I canít feel any difference in stiffness so far. Iím running mine at 150mm and they feel stiff enough to me.

  175. #3175
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    Compared to my Pike it's close enough that the difference in flex between my various wheels is far more noticeable than anything else. If I do the hold the front wheel between my legs and turn the bars test my Pike feels a bit stiffer, but in real world use the difference isn't really noticeable unless I'm using my stiff DH wheels with big sticky tires. Even then the difference is small enough that I won't cry about it, and it's completely outweighed by the vastly superior performance of the Mattoc Pro.

    I don't have enough ride time on Lyrics or Fox 36 to compare them, and haven't seen a Ribbon in my area yet.

  176. #3176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I'm considering at Mattoc 27.5 at 160mm. Anyone have any feedback on how stiff these are compared to a Pike/Lyric/Ribbon/Fox36?

    Obviously i'm not expecting a 34mm chassis to be as stiff as those competitors, but I'm curious how close they are.
    Not as stiff as a DVO Diamond. At 235 pounds, I noticed some flex with the Mattoc at 160mm. Nothing major, but more than my Diamond. For riders under 200 pounds, it is probably not noticeable.


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  177. #3177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I'm considering at Mattoc 27.5 at 160mm. Anyone have any feedback on how stiff these are compared to a Pike/Lyric/Ribbon/Fox36?

    Obviously i'm not expecting a 34mm chassis to be as stiff as those competitors, but I'm curious how close they are.
    Tube size doesn't influence stiffness much at all. It's about crown, brace and axle design.
    10 years ago Manitou claimed their 32mm Nixon was as stiff as the then F36.

    The first generation Mattocs are very good, the second generation (Mastodon and Mattoc Boost 160/170) are far stiffer again. Wider stance and new brace designs are big increases in torsional stiffness.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  178. #3178
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    Good to know, thanks! I've got a Magnum and a Ribbon right now, unfortunately they are different wheel sizes and my 29er (Magnum) has much flexier wheels than my 27.5 (Ribbon), so it's hard to tell.

  179. #3179
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    I've finally decided to dive into this fork. I had been running it stock: ~50psi, everything turned down except a couple clicks of LSC. No big gripes, but it's still completely factory, which means possible under/overfull fluids and that kinda lovely stuff. And now it's had a 'season' on it...no idea of hours; probably over 100.

    So I went ahead and dropped the IRT in, switching to ~40psi in the main chamber and 75 in the secondary. Feels better. Maybe a tiny bit squishy. But I'm trying to acquire anything else I need for a refresh and upgrades before I bother tweaking on it.

    I should be fine on tools. Got sockets, will grind an 8mm down if needed. Got a spare cassette tool in the mail to chop up.

    Ordered Maxima 3wt for the shock....since all my adjustments are maxxed towards open, I figure lighter oil can't hurt. Will just use the big bottle of RS 0W40 I've got for bath oil. Have a bottle of 3M clear silicone grease that I generally use for air side parts.

    And ordered a set of the fancy new 'low friction' seals.

    My fork was bought in 2017, so I shouldn't need to update any other parts, correct? Anything I'm overlooking here to do a total overhaul? I assume air and damper o-rings should be good for another go round before I need to worry about replacing them.

  180. #3180
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    Is slow rebound normal for a new fork? After a couole rides the rebound wide open is still too slow. It is a Mattoc Comp Boost.
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    Hi guys i have some question.
    I bought a Mattoc pro 160 and also bought the IRP.
    I wanted to know, the height of the oil must be 75mm or 77mm ( manitou guide says 75mm)?
    I've motul 2,5w factory line.
    In lower leg 7cc or 15cc (160mm)
    Where i can find new seal low friction? which are the best seal? I 've the Skf seal for Pike (someone used them?)
    No oil in air chamber with IRP, right? Only grease
    Slick honey it's ok or i can also use teflon red grease?
    Thank you.

  182. #3182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Is slow rebound normal for a new fork? After a couole rides the rebound wide open is still too slow. It is a Mattoc Comp Boost.
    how much air is in the fork?

  183. #3183
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    My fork was bought in 2017, so I shouldn't need to update any other parts, correct? Anything I'm overlooking here to do a total overhaul? I assume air and damper o-rings should be good for another go round before I need to worry about replacing them.
    Post a pic of your air compression rod. We'll know if that's the original or revised. If it's original, Hayes/Manitou will send a replacement.

  184. #3184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I'm considering at Mattoc 27.5 at 160mm. Anyone have any feedback on how stiff these are compared to a Pike/Lyric/Ribbon/Fox36?

    Obviously i'm not expecting a 34mm chassis to be as stiff as those competitors, but I'm curious how close they are.
    If you choose the new mattoc 3 boost it will probably be stiffer than a pike and a bit less than Lyrik or so as they have a new crown and bridge design.

  185. #3185
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    Slighty (a lot) OT: What are people using for seals on these and more urgently Dorados? I can order from Dougal but an alternative that I can get in Oz would be super.

  186. #3186
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    how much air is in the fork?
    60-65psi, canít remember exactly how much.

  187. #3187
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    Quote Originally Posted by shmity View Post
    Slighty (a lot) OT: What are people using for seals on these and more urgently Dorados? I can order from Dougal but an alternative that I can get in Oz would be super.
    You can use the SKF seals on the Mattoc, but really need to use the factory seals for the Dorado.


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  188. #3188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Is slow rebound normal for a new fork? After a couole rides the rebound wide open is still too slow. It is a Mattoc Comp Boost.
    What makes you think it's too slow?

    Manitou uses a non preloaded shim stack that actually flows oil, so the rebound feels slow in parking lot tests, but they feel good on trails because the rebound speed increases as you go deeper in the stroke.

    If it feels slow on the trail, it is pretty easy to adjust the shim stack to speed it up. Just need to make it a little softer

  189. #3189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    You can use the SKF seals on the Mattoc, but really need to use the factory seals for the Dorado.


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    I figured as much. I'll open them up again and make sure there's enough slickoleum on the bushes. Last service was three rides ago and had new seals put in and they're very sticky.

  190. #3190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    You can use the SKF seals on the Mattoc, but really need to use the factory seals for the Dorado.


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    Yeah I'm not aware of any alternative seal fitments for Dorado seals. Haven't looked though.

    Mattoc crosses over to F34 seal sizing, but the new Mattoc seals are better than even SKF for friction and no issues with life yet (7 months and counting).
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  191. #3191
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    What makes you think it's too slow?

    Manitou uses a non preloaded shim stack that actually flows oil, so the rebound feels slow in parking lot tests, but they feel good on trails because the rebound speed increases as you go deeper in the stroke.

    If it feels slow on the trail, it is pretty easy to adjust the shim stack to speed it up. Just need to make it a little softer
    That may be it. Itís mosrly the parking lot tests comparing it to my DVO Diamond. Knowing that Iíll have my wife (her fork) give me feedback when riding.

    It could also be when I reduced travel i my not have put slickoleum on the seals. Canít remember if I did or if it came with enough to begin with.
    My Wife's Channel for Women - LadyMTB

  192. #3192
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    can you give me the part number of new seals? where i can find it?

  193. #3193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yeah I'm not aware of any alternative seal fitments for Dorado seals. Haven't looked though.

    Mattoc crosses over to F34 seal sizing, but the new Mattoc seals are better than even SKF for friction and no issues with life yet (7 months and counting).
    where i can find new seals? can you give me the part number?
    one more question, oil in chamber(mattoc pro 160) at 75mm or 77mm?
    thank you

  194. #3194
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    Post a pic of your air compression rod. We'll know if that's the original or revised. If it's original, Hayes/Manitou will send a replacement.
    my mattoc pro 2016 have original, what should i do to make it replace it

  195. #3195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    You can use the SKF seals on the Mattoc, but really need to use the factory seals for the Dorado.


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    I used the SKF seals but while they feel great they tend to let a lot more dirt into the fork and a lot more bath oil escapes. I generally change my bath oil every 3 months and with the old system, I always still had bath oil in the fork and never saw much dirt. With the SKF seals, when I drop the lowers, my bath oil is almost all gone and there is some dirt - no a lot but there - below the seal on the foam ring.
    Last edited by Vespasianus; 01-09-2018 at 09:53 AM.
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  196. #3196
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    Quote Originally Posted by juster77 View Post
    where i can find new seals? can you give me the part number?
    one more question, oil in chamber(mattoc pro 160) at 75mm or 77mm?
    thank you
    I just ordered mine through my LBS. BTI stocks them, which means just about any bike shop in the country should be able to get them for you. I didn't ask the price but i bet it's about $30.

    Here's the PN:
    item # model description in stock?
    AP-8547 Mattoc and Magnum (34mm) low friction dust seal kit YES


    There is also a set on ebay if you search for "mattoc seals" and it specifies that it's the low-friction variety.

    Edit: Just picked them up for $28 including tax and a 10% discount through my LBS.
    Last edited by Porch; 01-09-2018 at 02:31 PM.

  197. #3197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    That may be it. Itís mosrly the parking lot tests comparing it to my DVO Diamond. Knowing that Iíll have my wife (her fork) give me feedback when riding.

    It could also be when I reduced travel i my not have put slickoleum on the seals. Canít remember if I did or if it came with enough to begin with.
    Have both forks. The Mattoc feels slow in the parking lot but is fine on the trail.


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  198. #3198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I just ordered mine through my LBS. BTI stocks them, which means just about any bike shop in the country should be able to get them for you. I didn't ask the price but i bet it's about $30.

    Here's the PN:
    item # model description in stock?
    AP-8547 Mattoc and Magnum (34mm) low friction dust seal kit YES


    There is also a set on ebay if you search for "mattoc seals" and it specifies that it's the low-friction variety.
    You can get them online here

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...ls.php?id=4125

    And here

    https://www.bikeparts.com/categories...u%20seals#pN=2

  199. #3199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    I used the SKF seals but while they feel great they tend to let a lot more dirt into the fork and a lot more bath oil escapes. I generally change my bath oil every 3 months and with the old system, I always still had bath oil in the fork and never saw much dirt. With the SKF seals, when I drop the lowers, my bath oil is almost all gone and there is some dirt - no a lot but there - below the seal on the foam ring.
    On a dorado or on a mattoc? Im happy enough with the mattoc seals, but of the three different sets of dorado seals there has been design differences in all of them so im not sure where i stand on the set that just went in.

  200. #3200
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    Quote Originally Posted by shmity View Post
    On a dorado or on a mattoc? Im happy enough with the mattoc seals, but of the three different sets of dorado seals there has been design differences in all of them so im not sure where i stand on the set that just went in.
    He is referencing mattoc seals. Not much you can do with dorado seals other than get the manitou version. They require a dedicated oil seal, so no other 36mm seal will work that I'm aware of.

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