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Thread: lyric tuning

  1. #1
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    lyric tuning

    I am getting about 1 inch of sag on my lyric coil uturn, and only around 4 inches of useable travel. My fork is due for some maintenance, so I was thinking about about trying a lighter spring, but I was also wondering if anyone had any luck with changing oil wt or volume in the damper.

    I am afraid the next softer spring will be too soft for me (like 170 or so with all gear and camelback)... then again, maybe the fork has the firm spring in it (and not the medium, like I am assuming)...

    I am hoping to check which spring it has tonight, if I can get it torn down...

    Any thoughts or suggestions?
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  2. #2
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    Seems to be common for riders to go to a lighter spring in RS Forks. I am running an x-firm in my Pike and I am 280 and it max is about 240 and I get perfect sag and travel.

  3. #3
    aka dan51
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    Checking the spring should take about 3 minutes. Just unscrew the stuff on top of the left leg and compress the fork. The spring will start to push out and you'll be able to see the paint on it to identify the type. You won't even lose any oil.

    As for oil, I swapped mine out to 2.5wt, and it's similar to running a slightly softer spring. Plus it's way more responsive to the small bumps. I did the same on my Pike and Revelation with the same results. On those forks I actually had to go up a spring firmness, but they still retained the better responsiveness.

  4. #4
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    The Lyrik recommendations seem right on for freeride 10 ft drops. But it does make a great trail bike fork getting full travel and near 25% sag using a spring rated one or two steps below the recommendations.

    I use a spring 2 steps below recommended and have not bottomed the final 1/2 inch of travel using around 140mm travel, at 160mm travel it doesn't get as close to bottom for my riding strength. 1 step below recommended would be my choice if I was a very aggressive trail rider. Recommended rate only if I was focusing more on large jumps and drops rather than optimum suspension for trail riding.

    If you are running the compression damping wide open now, you need a softer spring to take better advantage of it's high quality HS compression damping using a few clicks or many more in.

    Keep the damper cartridge oil volume and splash bath at the recommended levels/volumes.

    I'm also curious about using slightly lighter oil like mixing 2.5w and 5w 50/50 and dialing in more HSC adjustment to maintain the about the same rate I like now and see if LSC has more noticeable range.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan51
    Checking the spring should take about 3 minutes. Just unscrew the stuff on top of the left leg and compress the fork. The spring will start to push out and you'll be able to see the paint on it to identify the type. You won't even lose any oil.

    As for oil, I swapped mine out to 2.5wt, and it's similar to running a slightly softer spring. Plus it's way more responsive to the small bumps. I did the same on my Pike and Revelation with the same results. On those forks I actually had to go up a spring firmness, but they still retained the better responsiveness.
    OK, yeah. I have the red spring, and I am running compression wide open, so I am gonna try the yellow spring. In the meantime, I might try a lighter weight oil in the damper as well. Thanks for the info.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  6. #6
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    OK, so now that I am looking at my (new, yellow, soft) spring assembly, I am wondering if anyone has tried some redneck engineering to make the UTurn crank the fork out a few extra mm-like to 170 or so. Or does the fork top-out and this would cause create preload on the spring. Either way, it could help me keep the same ride height with the softer spring, which I would like...

    Or would this over-extend the fork in the bushings and lead to catastrophic failure?
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Six Pack
    OK, so now that I am looking at my (new, yellow, soft) spring assembly, I am wondering if anyone has tried some redneck engineering to make the UTurn crank the fork out a few extra mm-like to 170 or so. Or does the fork top-out and this would cause create preload on the spring. Either way, it could help me keep the same ride height with the softer spring, which I would like...

    Or would this over-extend the fork in the bushings and lead to catastrophic failure?
    With spring removed and damper side still bolted together, then pulling and extending the Lyrik higher in travel than the stock spring allows, it seems like there is room for the rebound piston to allow the fork to extend more than 10mm into taller travel. Measure that to be sure there is more than 10mm rebound travel to spare.

    On the spring assembly it looks like if the metal pin through the plastic screw securing it to the compression rod was removed then the the plastic screw would slide off the top of the rod. Then drill a hole 10mm lower in the the plastic screw to pin it in a position that would place the plastic screw 10mm higher on the compression rod, which could give 10mm higher (and 10mm less reduction) range in travel.

    The slider bushings and stanchions could probably handle it with no real faster wear rate for trail riding if oil was changed often, much like using a firmer spring with 10mm less sag, but it could be less durable to wear from large jump landings at a taller full fork extension. I don't see any potential for catastrophic failure.

    A sure safe and durable option would be to get a headset with 10mm more lower cup extension below the head tube to simply raise the head tube and front of the frame higher above the fork's crown.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    With spring removed and damper side still bolted together, then pulling and extending the Lyrik higher in travel than the stock spring allows, it seems like there is room for the rebound piston to allow the fork to extend more than 10mm into taller travel. Measure that to be sure there is more than 10mm rebound travel to spare.

    On the spring assembly it looks like if the metal pin through the plastic screw securing it to the compression rod was removed then the the plastic screw would slide off the top of the rod. Then drill a hole 10mm lower in the the plastic screw to pin it in a position that would place the plastic screw 10mm higher on the compression rod, which could give 10mm higher (and 10mm less reduction) range in travel.

    The slider bushings and stanchions could probably handle it with no real faster wear rate for trail riding if oil was changed often, much like using a firmer spring with 10mm less sag, but it could be less durable to wear from large jump landings at a taller full fork extension. I don't see any potential for catastrophic failure.

    A sure safe and durable option would be to get a headset with 10mm more lower cup extension below the head tube to simply raise the head tube and front of the frame higher above the fork's crown.
    I finally got to all of the fork servicing over the weekend. The fork is like butter-fresh 5wt in the damper, new (yellow/soft) spring with fresh grease, enduro seals, new lower oil, AND a new headset (pig dh pro) that gives maybe a 5mm extension on the bottom of the headtube due to the beefiness of the lower bearing.

    Initial test rides are great-like riding on a pillow of air. I bottomed (not harshly) off of an intentional rough landing. Added 4 clicks of HSC and seems better. I can also say that my mission control is actually useable now-felt more like an almost-lockout before, now feels like tuneable LSC.

    The ride height feels nearly identical, so I am pretty happy, although I'd still like to be able to add just a touch more spring preload to keep the front end higher. I may still go back to the med/yellow spring and give it a try with 2.5wt in the damper-just to see

    edit: oops, meant med/red
    Last edited by Uncle Six Pack; 07-27-2009 at 03:07 PM.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  9. #9
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    Something a lot of Lyrik owners overlook (because RS does a terrible job of explaining it) is that the floodgate valve adjuster DOES have an affect on the ride and useable travel even with the lockout off. At your weight I certainly wouldn't go to the lighter spring OR lighter weight oil. Just turn out the floodgate adjuster all the way (or almost all the way) and see what happens. If it's already all the way out and still too stiff, THEN try a lighter weight oil; I'd be very surprised if you had to do that tho!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Something a lot of Lyrik owners overlook (because RS does a terrible job of explaining it) is that the floodgate valve adjuster DOES have an affect on the ride and useable travel even with the lockout off. At your weight I certainly wouldn't go to the lighter spring OR lighter weight oil. Just turn out the floodgate adjuster all the way (or almost all the way) and see what happens. If it's already all the way out and still too stiff, THEN try a lighter weight oil; I'd be very surprised if you had to do that tho!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Yep, I was running EVERYTHING open, floodgate adjuster backed off, and floodgate off, still not getting full travel.

    In retrospect, I wonder if the previous owner had put heavier (than 5wt) oil in the damper at some point... could explain a lot.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  11. #11
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    There was a thread about a month or two ago about Lyrik coils coming with too much oil in the damper causing hydro-lock and preventing full-travel. Seemed to be a very common issue and could have been your problem? Try the stock springs now and see how she does.

    Have FUN!

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    There was a thread about a month or two ago about Lyrik coils coming with too much oil in the damper causing hydro-lock and preventing full-travel. Seemed to be a very common issue and could have been your problem? Try the stock springs now and see how she does.

    Have FUN!

    G
    hmmmmm....

    Swapping springs at this point is relatively easy, now that I know the fork a little more intimately...

    I hadn't even though about the damper being overfilled...
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  13. #13
    Nightmare on Lyrik st. VI
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    Mine stopped getting full travel after a service. The mechanic overfilled the damper. Once the situation was corrected, everything came back to normal.

    Remove the spring and try to compress. If you don't get full travel, then either the mission control is overfilled, or it is leaking oil into the lowers (which just happened to my Reba).
    Quote Originally Posted by TNC to whining spammer
    Don't let the nose of your saddle hit you in the @#!#X on the way out.

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