How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack - Page 4- Mtbr.com
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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by sine waiver View Post
    I am pretty light at ~67kg and found the compression damping to be excessive (mine had the 4, 19 x 0.2 shim stack). After trying numerous combinations I ended up running 2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim. The platform threshold with the needle closed is around 145N (14kg) which is ample for seated climbing. I have been running it 2-3 clicks from closed for climbing and descending and it works well. running 70psi in the spring and recommended damper oil height (87mm?)
    Which brand of oil were you running? The factory Maxima 85-150 is labelled 5wt but matches other brands 2.5wt.
    Anything 14-16 cSt @40C is essentially stock. There is no benefit to going thicker on a damper like this that can be easily revalved. A few brands make thinner, but that's getting into diminishing returns.
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  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    No issues with running just one. Only way to know if it's firm enough is to try it. After you do a few changes, you will get fast enough that you can do it in 15 minutes, so changing will be fast and easy to try new things.

    Keep in mind the thickness of the shims is very important, not just the diameter. Make sure you know the thickness of the shims you are using.
    My verniers are about 30 years old, and dont do measurements that small/accurate.

    Thickness is what ever is standard with the Marvel pro when they put 4x platform shims????
    I wonder why Manitou added 4 platforms for the marvel pro, especially when everyone on here feels 2 platforms is too harsh, don't they seem customer feedback?

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    My verniers are about 30 years old, and dont do measurements that small/accurate.

    Thickness is what ever is standard with the Marvel pro when they put 4x platform shims????
    I wonder why Manitou added 4 platforms for the marvel pro, especially when everyone on here feels 2 platforms is too harsh, don't they seem customer feedback?
    Hard to say. A single .2mm thick shim has the same relative stiffness as 8 shims .1mm thick. A 1.5mm thick is the equivalent of.a little over 3 shims .1mm thick.

    This means the stock 2 shim stack you refer to uses .2mm shims has a relative stiffness of 16 (8 x 2)

    If your 4 shims are .15mm thick instead of .2mm, then your stock stack would have an overall thickness of 12 which is less stiff overall than the old XC stack.

    Without knowing your shims thickness for sure, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that Manitou did adress the overly stiff stack, just not quite enough. They also don't want to lose the firm lockout out on the XC forks. It's what some people want.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Which brand of oil were you running? The factory Maxima 85-150 is labelled 5wt but matches other brands 2.5wt.
    Anything 14-16 cSt @40C is essentially stock. There is no benefit to going thicker on a damper like this that can be easily revalved. A few brands make thinner, but that's getting into diminishing returns.
    I went with motorex 2.5 race oil, firstly because I could get locally easily but it also has a higher VI than the maxima. So over the recent winter (when I was trying different setups) here, where temperatures are going to average <10C, the maxima is 62cst and the motorex 2.5 is 42cst , the motorex gives a noticable decrease in damping (though not so much the threshold force, since that is largely governed by the platform shim stiffness-which is good since you can decouple the threshold from the velocity damping to some extent by changing the oil viscosity).
    I guess in summer, say 30-40C, the standard maxima and 2.5 motorex are probably close enough to be indistinguishable.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    My verniers are about 30 years old, and dont do measurements that small/accurate.

    Thickness is what ever is standard with the Marvel pro when they put 4x platform shims????
    I wonder why Manitou added 4 platforms for the marvel pro, especially when everyone on here feels 2 platforms is too harsh, don't they seem customer feedback?
    Lockout, which is effectively what the 4x 19x0.2 shims provides with the needle closed, is likely to be seen by Manitou marketing as a necessary feature for xc forks. So they tell engineering to make it happen?

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Hard to say. A single .2mm thick shim has the same relative stiffness as 8 shims .1mm thick. A 1.5mm thick is the equivalent of.a little over 3 shims .1mm thick.

    This means the stock 2 shim stack you refer to uses .2mm shims has a relative stiffness of 16 (8 x 2)

    If your 4 shims are .15mm thick instead of .2mm, then your stock stack would have an overall thickness of 12 which is less stiff overall than the old XC stack.

    Without knowing your shims thickness for sure, I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that Manitou did adress the overly stiff stack, just not quite enough. They also don't want to lose the firm lockout out on the XC forks. It's what some people want.
    Mullens,
    I still need to buy a new set of higher quality digital verniers to confirm. But I my gut feeling is you are correct and that manitou may have switched to 4x .15mm.

    The reason I say this, is becuase I did some more testing, I removed a 2nd shim, so now i have 2x platfrom shims (of what ever thickness they are). I took it for a very hard rocky/ rooty/ climby ride. It felt great(but not really any different to 3 shims in the open 5 most open ABS+ settings), but the abs+ knob had no affect and no lockout any more, so it was definitly under valved.

    So I will add the 3rd shim back, as I liked that and i still had a proper platform.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    Mullens,
    I still need to buy a new set of higher quality digital verniers to confirm. But I my gut feeling is you are correct and that manitou may have switched to 4x .15mm.

    The reason I say this, is becuase I did some more testing, I removed a 2nd shim, so now i have 2x platfrom shims (of what ever thickness they are). I took it for a very hard rocky/ rooty/ climby ride. It felt great(but not really any different to 3 shims in the open 5 most open ABS+ settings), but the abs+ knob had no affect and no lockout any more, so it was definitly under valved.

    So I will add the 3rd shim back, as I liked that and i still had a proper platform.
    When did you buy the forks? My 2015 model definitely had 4 x 19 x0.2

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by sine waiver View Post
    When did you buy the forks? My 2015 model definitely had 4 x 19 x0.2
    Only a few months ago. It was advertised at 2016 model.
    So with yours what have you done? Do you still get lockout? Or close to it?

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    Only a few months ago. It was advertised at 2016 model.
    So with yours what have you done? Do you still get lockout? Or close to it?
    I have ended up with 17x0.15, 11x0.1 x 19x0.2
    No lockout anymore, just ~14kg threshold ( which is ample to stop any bob during seated pedalling). but in my view, you can't achieve a good shim stack tune and still have a lockout with the abs+ damper. There is a reason Fox use a multi circuit compression circuit in the fit 4, to allow a well tuned shim stack for general riding as well as a lockout.

  10. #610
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    Thats interesting you say that, because in my opinion Fox compression damping is useless and feels dead, but then again the latest model fox stuff i have is 2013 evo CTD... reknowned as rubbish.
    I personally feel that the piston porting in the minute pro with all combos of shims i have tried is better than the Fox forks I have owned.

    Also I switched my shims back to 3 x19mm, and I tried my rusty old verniers on them again. they are definitly more than .1mm and less than .2mm thick. and I measured all 3 stacked together to be a bit over .4mm so I am thinking they are .15mm.

    So as mullens said the old XC stack of 2x .2mm thick had a stiffness of .16, and the recommendation was to go back to 1 shim and being a stiffeness on 8. My original stack of 4x .15mm had a stiffness of 13.5 ( less than old XC stack) going to 2 x .15mm was too soft, it was stiffness of 6. so 3x .15mm is a stiffness of about 10.

    3 shims will have to do until i buy some more shims of other diameters. I rode it yesterday arvo with 3 and its not too bad, but could improve a bit.
    Last edited by minisman; 11-03-2016 at 03:25 PM.

  11. #611
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    Well guys,
    After a month or so of riding my Rocky with the Marvel pros 'borrowed' from my hard tail, and Fox not being very useful with repairing my other forks I have bought another set of Marvel pros
    In the meantime I bought digital calipers and about $30 worth of shims from a motorbike suspension shop, however they didn't sell 17.5 OD, i had to buy 17mm OD shims( I wonder how much that will affect it??).
    So last night, I popped open the brand new and unused Marvel pro, measured everything up and set a shim stack to test. I can confirm that with both 2016 Marvel pros the standard shim stack is 11*0.50 clamp, 4x 19*0.20 platform. (NOT 19x0.15 like i had guessed)
    On my other fork I was reasonably happy with running 11*0.50, 3x 19*0.20 (CV-11411-07) at about 3 clicks from Max, however I felt I wanted something with a little less platform and a little bit more linear. I actually considered the Jump stack, but I wanted that little bit more platform for XC, as I said before 2x 19*0.20 was not enough platform for me.
    So after looking at the graph at top of page 12 of the tuning manual seeing the difference between adding a 17.5*0.15 and 17.5*0.20 I decided I'd put a 17*0.15 next to piston.
    So my stack ended up being 11*0.50, 3x 19*0.20, 17*.15.
    I am going to hit up my local XC track this afternoon for about an hour or 2. I know the fork will need bedding in. (It has that horrible topping out thud that happened on my other fork, which tricked me into running too much rebound)
    I can't wait!!!!

    Also I would love to increase travel to 110 or 120mm, but I dont feel like stripping it and loosing all that brand new unused oil just yet.

    I forgot, for the record I got the kitchen scales out and checked some weights.
    The old 2013 Fox Float CTD 29er 100mm with 15mm axle installed and tapered steerer cut to 195mm weighed 1710g
    The New 2016 Marvel pro 29er 100mm with 15mm axle installed, tapered steerer uncut, 1780g, and cut to 188mm 1752g.

    So very minor weight penalty over the fox... and website spec sheets are wrong (as usual)
    Last edited by minisman; 01-22-2017 at 08:38 PM. Reason: add more specs

  12. #612
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    So a bit of an update on my marvel pro, I have done quite a bit of testing... probably not consistent with my methods, and terrible with my record keeping but here is a bit of a run down.

    So before buying shims my best set up was: 10.5x0.5, 3x 19x0.2 70psi - good platform, still had LO, railed corners, sat too low in stroke unless add more air, then lost small bump.
    tried 10.5x0.5, 17x0.2, 3x 19x0.2, 17x 0.15 - better mid support, platform lacking, still had LO
    tried 10.5x0.5, 3x 19x0.2, 17x 0.2 - no lockout, didn't even ride it
    tried 10.5x0.5, 3x 19x0.2, 17x 0.15 -platform good, a little lacking, good for majority of stroke, needed a little more big hit resistence.
    tried (jump stack with thinner velocity shim)
    10.5x0.5, 17x0.15 4x 19x0.2, 17x 0.15 - better support whole way, but a bit dead/ wooden feeling, and had to drop psi- classic overdamped undersprung)

    So its obvious I like a lot of platform shims, but I also want them to fully blow off before speed shims come into play... So I am thinking i need a 2 stage stack. but everyone that tried that has said they ended up with going for a straight linear stack... which doesn't sound like my sort of thing at all!

    Other wise I think my best bet is 3x platforms, 1x .15 speed shim and then playing with the spring side a little to get me higher in stroke.... Either adding some grease/oil to reduce volume, or going to 120mm travel so its sitting at the right height in the midstroke and reduces bottoming.

    Any hints on air spring mods? also how far do I have to go stripping the fork to change travel spacers?

  13. #613
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    Hi guys,

    Just finished playing with my 2016 Marvel Pro. I bought it as 100mm for my Epic to replace SID with Brain. I recently bought another bike (BH Lynx) that has 120mm Fox Float CTD 32 fitted. I believe that when I tune the damper on Marvel I will end up with better and lighter fork. Conversion to 120mm was straightforward, then I removed the damper to check which variant is fitted.

    As expected, it was XC tuned with stack of 4 shims 19 (OD) x 8 (ID). No idea about thickness of the shims (battery in my calipers gone dead...). Anyway, once I get different shims I'l go with trail or linear tune.

    One thing I could not figure out is how to fit the damper back in. It will slide in just about half way, then it just will not budge. I didn't want to apply brutal force and decided to ask here. Is there some sort of trick? Keep wiggling from side to side and pushing down?

    Any reply would be much appreciated.

    Cheers.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikros View Post
    Hi guys,

    Just finished playing with my 2016 Marvel Pro. I bought it as 100mm for my Epic to replace SID with Brain. I recently bought another bike (BH Lynx) that has 120mm Fox Float CTD 32 fitted. I believe that when I tune the damper on Marvel I will end up with better and lighter fork. Conversion to 120mm was straightforward, then I removed the damper to check which variant is fitted.

    As expected, it was XC tuned with stack of 4 shims 19 (OD) x 8 (ID). No idea about thickness of the shims (battery in my calipers gone dead...). Anyway, once I get different shims I'l go with trail or linear tune.

    One thing I could not figure out is how to fit the damper back in. It will slide in just about half way, then it just will not budge. I didn't want to apply brutal force and decided to ask here. Is there some sort of trick? Keep wiggling from side to side and pushing down?

    Any reply would be much appreciated.

    Cheers.
    Make sure the compression damper adjuster is in the open position, in the closed position with the STD shims it takes a lot to force oil past the preloaded stack. Might be the problem.??

  15. #615
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    Let me check after work - I'm sure I turned the adjuster to one of the stop positions,

    but it is quite possible I've locked it fully rather than opened it.

    Thanks for a hint, should've thought about it rather than swearing like a sailor.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by sine waiver View Post
    Make sure the compression damper adjuster is in the open position, in the closed position with the STD shims it takes a lot to force oil past the preloaded stack. Might be the problem.??
    Yep turn it all the way forwards or anti clockwise.
    Also do yourself a big favour and take either 1 or 2 of the 19mm shims out. I have fiddled around a lot and I still like 3x19mm shims, and 2 clicks from lockout

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    Yep turn it all the way forwards or anti clockwise.
    Also do yourself a big favour and take either 1 or 2 of the 19mm shims out. I have fiddled around a lot and I still like 3x19mm shims, and 2 clicks from lockout
    Mystery solved, I've had a brainfart - thinking of opening the damper, I turned it fully clocwise to locked. Every fork I've ever touched opens up anticlockwise even RS SID which has a rebound dial on top of right leg (fast rebound anticlockwise). Oh well...

    I plan to remove 2 platform shims first and see how it feels, then try with 3 shims. I really wanted to add 17.5/0.2 speed shim to either 1 or 2 platforms, but I'm having enormous difficulties to find it anywhere in Oz. Manitou tuning kit disappeared from market as well. May end up ordering set of 17.5mm from US (there's a link somewhere here), but it is not the cheapest option.

    What I'm after most of all, is small bump/trail chatter compliance to ease the pain from my seriously injured shoulder which haunts me from my dirt bike days. Pedal bob is not much of a concern but brake dive is not much fun. I'd like to find some compromise.

    At the moment the my Fox CTD is mostly set in downhill mode even for general trail ridig, so there is my bias towards a linear mode rather than strong platform. Its not bad, but I really hope I can better it with Marvel. If I only had the shims to play with that is. :-(

    Thank you guys for your prompt replies. Much appreciated.

  18. #618
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    This is the shim stack that i have liked the best for xc racing



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  19. #619
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    Mikros,
    With regards to buying shims in OZ, I bought mine from Tecnik Motorsports online, however had to buy bags of 10. They only had 17mm ,not 17.5mm, somone else said the difference is barely noticeable, so thats what I went with. Ended up buying about $30 worth in the end.

    So on that note, I have spare 17x 0.2 and 17x 0.15 and I also bought some 10 x.25 to try to use as clamp shims... but havent tried it yet.

    If you like I can send you 2 or 3 of each $5 plus postage??? PM me your postage details if you are keen?

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupps5 View Post
    This is the shim stack that i have liked the best for xc racing
    Thats a massive stack... can you identify what it is actually doing?? and explain it to me?

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    Thats a massive stack... can you identify what it is actually doing?? and explain it to me?
    My guess- for low-speed hits it starts by behaving similar to a no platform, low-dampening force linear stack with just the bottom 2x 17.5mm shims providing all the initial dampening. When it gets a larger hit, the two big bottom shims lift and around past the 10mm shim and contact the upper "christmass tree" stack which kicks in to provide a sharp ramp-up in dampening force that progressively increases once you begin putting force on the smaller diameter 15mm and 13mm shims at the top of the tree.

  22. #622
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    Can I get a recommendation for tuning my 27.5 Marvel Pro 120mm for dealing with roots? I seem to be deflecting off them rather than sucking them up. My current shim stack is pretty light linear tune but maybe I had too much air this day? I want to try again from scratch and need a good starting point.

    Weight 140lbs
    Terrain - aggressive XC primitive trails
    120mm Marvel Pro on Ti hard tail 27.5
    2.5 wt fork oil
    Fox Gold semi bath

    Current shim stack:
    Clamp | 15x0.15 |17x0.15 | Piston
    LSC closed or 1 click open
    sag about 25% 65psi
    top of air spring packed with Slickoleum, no oil on it as it blows by the seals quickly

    Something just isn't right. It feels supple and moves on climbs, but then was deflecting off the roots, so counter to what I'd think. I have been setting rebound on the fast side thinking that is what is needed for roots but it has also felt bouncy.

    I saw this recipe in a previous post and am going to try it out: "2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim."

    For this is the correct order:
    Clamp | 19mm platform | 11mm spacer | 17mm speed shim | Piston


    Anyway any suggestions appreciated.

  23. #623
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    Actually your shim stack is set rather soft but you may want to switch the 15 for a 13. Also open up your LSC a bit more.

    Also since you've worked on your forms obviously did you pump your forks up before installing the rods into the lowers? If you did that's another issue. Forks should be mostly/fully compressed before installing air piston rod bolt or threading the damper rod in.

    Also check your tire pressure, solid chance your running too high if your badly deflecting.

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  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Forks should be mostly/fully compressed before installing air piston rod bolt or threading the damper rod in.
    No they shouldn't.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  25. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    Can I get a recommendation for tuning my 27.5 Marvel Pro 120mm for dealing with roots? I seem to be deflecting off them rather than sucking them up. My current shim stack is pretty light linear tune but maybe I had too much air this day? I want to try again from scratch and need a good starting point.

    Weight 140lbs
    Terrain - aggressive XC primitive trails
    120mm Marvel Pro on Ti hard tail 27.5
    2.5 wt fork oil
    Fox Gold semi bath

    Current shim stack:
    Clamp | 15x0.15 |17x0.15 | Piston
    LSC closed or 1 click open
    sag about 25% 65psi
    top of air spring packed with Slickoleum, no oil on it as it blows by the seals quickly

    Something just isn't right. It feels supple and moves on climbs, but then was deflecting off the roots, so counter to what I'd think. I have been setting rebound on the fast side thinking that is what is needed for roots but it has also felt bouncy.

    I saw this recipe in a previous post and am going to try it out: "2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim."

    For this is the correct order:
    Clamp | 19mm platform | 11mm spacer | 17mm speed shim | Piston


    Anyway any suggestions appreciated.
    What's your air pressure? That's a very soft shim stack you're running already. It's likely not the damper.

    How many CC of grease have you got in the air-spring? It's not too progressive?
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    Can I get a recommendation for tuning my 27.5 Marvel Pro 120mm for dealing with roots? I seem to be deflecting off them rather than sucking them up. My current shim stack is pretty light linear tune but maybe I had too much air this day? I want to try again from scratch and need a good starting point.

    Weight 140lbs
    Terrain - aggressive XC primitive trails
    120mm Marvel Pro on Ti hard tail 27.5
    2.5 wt fork oil
    Fox Gold semi bath

    Current shim stack:
    Clamp | 15x0.15 |17x0.15 | Piston
    LSC closed or 1 click open
    sag about 25% 65psi
    top of air spring packed with Slickoleum, no oil on it as it blows by the seals quickly

    Something just isn't right. It feels supple and moves on climbs, but then was deflecting off the roots, so counter to what I'd think. I have been setting rebound on the fast side thinking that is what is needed for roots but it has also felt bouncy.

    I saw this recipe in a previous post and am going to try it out: "2.5wt fork oil with a 17x0.15 speed shim, a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim."

    For this is the correct order:
    Clamp | 19mm platform | 11mm spacer | 17mm speed shim | Piston


    Anyway any suggestions appreciated.
    Sounds like you are too fast on rebound to me. Slow it down and see if it helps

  27. #627
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    Ashwinearl

    I bet that the shim stack is too light. That is why you have closed your low-speed compression. If you open up your lowest speed compression do you just blow through the travel?

    What does the fork feel like when you're about four clicks from open on low speed compression?

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  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Sounds like you are too fast on rebound to me. Slow it down and see if it helps
    I agree. If you're popping up off roots, you need some rebound in it. It's sometimes hard to separate too much compression, where the bike simply jumps up upon impact with the root (often harshly), vs. too little rebound where the fork absorbs the root but then pops up too quickly as the fork extends *after* the root.

  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB View Post
    I agree. If you're popping up off roots, you need some rebound in it. It's sometimes hard to separate too much compression, where the bike simply jumps up upon impact with the root (often harshly), vs. too little rebound where the fork absorbs the root but then pops up too quickly as the fork extends *after* the root.
    I have found when people use the word "deflect", it is almost always a rebound problem. Rebound is always overlooked, but is just as, if not more important than compression.

    I know quite a few people who run a single 17x.2mm shim in abs+ dampers. I don't think lack of compression damping is the issue.

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupps5 View Post
    Ashwinearl

    I bet that the shim stack is too light. That is why you have closed your low-speed compression. If you open up your lowest speed compression do you just blow through the travel?

    What does the fork feel like when you're about four clicks from open on low speed compression?

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    4 clicks from open dives very easily and usually leave the LSC closed or 1 click open. Yes, I agree that the shim stack is probably too light. I recall reading in this thread that with a linear stack, that the LSC knob has limited effect.

    Regardless, I am going to try some different stacks and experiment again.

  31. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Sounds like you are too fast on rebound to me. Slow it down and see if it helps
    I will experiment with this. I know I was speeding up (reducing rebound compression) which sounds like it was making it worse!!

  32. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    What's your air pressure? That's a very soft shim stack you're running already. It's likely not the damper.

    How many CC of grease have you got in the air-spring? It's not too progressive?
    I am running around 65-70psi. The entire cavity on the top of the air piston is packed with Slickoleum grease. I stopped adding any additional oil on top of it. Yes, I am beginning to think it is too progressive and will experiment with less.

  33. #633
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    For XC, how do you recommend setting sag? ABS+ fully open , break stiction, and check in seated position? or standing?

    Any suggestions for performing controlled testing away from the trail, such as riding over a two by four on the driveway?

  34. #634
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    Sag should be seated in riding position on the flat. In theory as long as you haven't locked out either end, the damper position won't make a huge difference, but some folks insist on doing it with adjustments at full open. I don't.

    If you're experienced tuning, you can use a curb near your house, etc. I use the curbs around mine to get a first shot at it, and then I'm usually no more than a click away once I hit a trail.

    I check rear rebound by riding off the curb in front of my house seated - adjust to taste. I ride up the curb to check compression (like our ABS+ knob) and again, adjust to taste. I try to do the same speed and same place each time. Front rebount isn't as easy since I don't have any root-like objects nearby, but you can still learn things from a rounded curb. Then you do some tweaks at the trail if you don't like where you end up.

  35. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    For XC, how do you recommend setting sag? ABS+ fully open , break stiction, and check in seated position? or standing?

    Any suggestions for performing controlled testing away from the trail, such as riding over a two by four on the driveway?
    I check sag standing, but it's a mostly useless number anyway, so don't put too much stock in it. Judge mostly by feel. Compression should always be open when checking.

    There is no way good way to test at home. When you are on the trail, you are you going faster, bumps are randomly spaced and various sizes, shaft speeds are all over place. Hitting a random bump or two in your driveway just can't replicate what a trail is like.

  36. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    It feels supple and moves on climbs
    Sounds like excessive low speed damping isn't the issue, but if it is in fact the compression damping, the damping force at higher velocities might be too high.
    If you consider the aim of tuning a compression stack in the damper is to dissipate a given amount of energy for an impact, a linear stack such as you've been trying will need to generate a higher peak damping force than a (bleed closed) preloaded stack to absorb the same energy. My (contestable) logic is to set the platform shim preload to give a threshold/blow off force I am happy to put up with (10-15kg for me), then add some speed shims to provide more damping at higher velocities. One or two clicks open on the adjuster seems to be enough to smooth the transition from bleed flow to stack flow.
    Thats my logic behind the clamp, 19x0.2, 11x0.1, 17x0.15, piston face.
    It would be good if the piston step depth was greater to give a bit more freedom in what you can fit in for the speed shim stack height but it seems just adequate.

  37. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by sine waiver View Post
    a 11x0.1 spacer shim (to reduce platform shim preload) and a single 19x0.2 platform shim.
    sine waiver, would a 10x or 10.5x size work in place of the 11x0.1 spacer. I have 10x0.1, 10x0.13, 10x0.15, 10.5x0.25, 10x0.2

    I am similar in size and ride style. 140lbd 63kg, riding aggressive XC

  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    sine waiver, would a 10x or 10.5x size work in place of the 11x0.1 spacer. I have 10x0.1, 10x0.13, 10x0.15, 10.5x0.25, 10x0.2

    I am similar in size and ride style. 140lbd 63kg, riding aggressive XC
    I'm sure the 10 or 10.5 would work, just means a slightly softer speed shim. Having the slightly thicker shims on hand might be good to fine tune the platform threshold. The 0.13 or 0.15 might be good to provide a very light platform.
    You could also use a similar thickness but larger diameter shim in place of the 11 if you want to stiffen the speed shim for more damping at higher velocities.
    The best thing is that it is so fast to change you can try a lot of options, compared to a fit4 I've been playing with.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by sine waiver View Post
    If you consider the aim of tuning a compression stack in the damper is to dissipate a given amount of energy for an impact, a linear stack such as you've been trying will need to generate a higher peak damping force than a (bleed closed) preloaded stack to absorb the same energy. My (contestable) logic is to set the platform shim preload to give a threshold/blow off force I am happy to put up with (10-15kg for me), then add some speed shims to provide more damping at higher velocities. One or two clicks open on the adjuster seems to be enough to smooth the transition from bleed flow to stack flow.
    Thats my logic behind the clamp, 19x0.2, 11x0.1, 17x0.15, piston face.
    It would be good if the piston step depth was greater to give a bit more freedom in what you can fit in for the speed shim stack height but it seems just adequate.
    So I tried a variation of this stack, since you think its a good XC race style. Since every time a setup a stack a do the garage bounce test and like to have near-lock out. I couldn't handle 1x 19mm platform shim, so added 2x 19x0.2 shims, especially since the only crossover shim i had was 11x0.25, i was loosing a lot of preload so thought I'd stiffen it up.
    Garage test still felt too soft and had brake dive with all clicker settings.
    Trail test.... well its too harsh!!! but it gave quite good control... I'm looking forward to where this is heading, will try a new variation of the stack this weekend.
    Last edited by minisman; 05-11-2017 at 05:57 PM.

  40. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by minisman View Post
    So I tried a variation of this stack, since you think its a good XC race style. Since every time a setup a stack a do the garage bounce test and like to have near-lock out. I couldn't handle 1x 19mm platform shim, so added 2x 19x0.2 shims, especially since the only crossover shim i had was 11x0.25, i was loosing a lot of preload so thought I'd stiffen it up.
    Garage test still felt too soft and had brake dive with all clicker settings.
    Trail test.... well its too harsh!!! but it gave quite good control... I'm looking forward to where this is heading, will try a new variation of the stack this weekend.
    You could try just one 19x0.2 and no 11 so you have more preloaded on the 19 shim for more platform but less higher speed damping than the 2x19 shims you tried.

  41. #641
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    I had herd somewhere that what you put in front of a shim will reduce it's platform. Going by this theory I came up with a stack that works quite well for me.

    Im running a manitou minute expert 130mm with iso air and tpc damper.

    I found 2 platform shims too much but one not enough.
    Starting with the xc tune I went with 2 platform shims and put 3 or 4 speed shims in front (instead of just 2). This theoretically would make the two platform shims almost ineffective.

    So I thought why not give the platform a little more help and put a 13 behind them and clamped it with a 1.1mm washer.

    Seems to work great for me. I'm a heavier rider and the fork sits a lot higher in the travel without having to increase air pressure. Has a great pedal platform with just a little give for comfort without bobbing everywhere.

    Doesn't dive everywhere and really handles most situations better than i ever hoped for. I haven't changed it as I can't really see how I can make it better than this.

    Only running 75 psi with lsc fully open and reboud 3 of 7 clicks open.

  42. #642
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    i don't have any recommendations, but i'd shoot for a stack that allows my lsc to be midway. just so i could have a nice range for "those days". if your happy then i guess thats waht matters

  43. #643
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    Any suggestions on cleaning/checking the Rebound Assembly on a Manitou Marvel Pro? I don't want to retune it or change shims, just clean it and verify that the check valve is working correctly.

    Thanks

  44. #644
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    Can somebody help me, please?
    I can't pull the piston down from the rod. I've tried pulling it as hard as I can with my hands, I tried unscrewing it, but it just doesn't move.

    What am I missing here? I don't understand what am I doing wrong. Isn't it supposed to freely slide down from the rod at this point?
    I'm so frustrated. I am afraid to damage the piston if I try pulling it any harder than I do.
    How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20171012_113959059.jpgHow to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20171012_114018432.jpg

  45. #645
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    Yes, it is supposed to slide freely. Perhaps somebody has other suggestions, but I would support the piston from the edges and slightly tap the shaft end with rubber mallet. Sharp hits are better for braking free the seized stuff.

  46. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Yes, it is supposed to slide freely. Perhaps somebody has other suggestions, but I would support the piston from the edges and slightly tap the shaft end with rubber mallet. Sharp hits are better for braking free the seized stuff.
    It's a new fork, I just bought it. Impossible that it's seized. Also, it's made from plastic, what is there to seize?

    I will try your suggestion and report back, thank you.

  47. #647
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    Destroyed the rod tread by hitting it with a mallet. So much about my new fork...
    How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20171012_131833941.jpgHow to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20171012_131952220.jpg

    I suppose I can't cut the damaged part of this? Does this bottom part touch anything when the fork bottoms out?

    Edit: managed to save the tread luckily. The nut goes on the tread just fine, but I still didn't manage to pull the piston out.
    How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20171012_141132073.jpg

  48. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabis View Post
    Destroyed the rod tread by hitting it with a mallet. So much about my new fork...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I suppose I can't cut the damaged part of this? Does this bottom part touch anything when the fork bottoms out?

    Edit: managed to save the tread luckily. The nut goes on the tread just fine, but I still didn't manage to pull the piston out.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Try twisting the piston to break it free. I have come across some tight piston, but never stuck.

    And for future reference, never hit the threads of anything. If you are going to do that, thread the nut on so you hit the nut, this protects the threads.

  49. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Try twisting the piston to break it free. I have come across some tight piston, but never stuck.

    And for future reference, never hit the threads of anything. If you are going to do that, thread the nut on so you hit the nut, this protects the threads.
    Thanks for the tip, I sure won't repeat the same mistake again.
    I have tried everything with my hands, it doesn't move one bit. I am not a weak person so we can rule that out - me not having enough strength. I don't understand what is there between the piston and the rod to cause this? It makes no sense.

    edit: simply can't remove it, I suppose I am stuck with "Production XC stack" unless I buy another damper some day. That's disappointing, I already had 5 shims ready to try different shim stacks.
    Last edited by Isabis; 10-12-2017 at 10:00 AM.

  50. #650
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    But write to Manitou technical support. This is not normal.

    BTW what fork exactly you have? Does it have ABS+ or Kwik-Toggle lockout?

  51. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    But write to Manitou technical support. This is not normal.

    BTW what fork exactly you have? Does it have ABS+ or Kwik-Toggle lockout?
    I destroyed the damper by hitting it with a mallet, hardly believe Manitou would cover this even if the fork was bought from the official distributor, which isn't the case. I bought it here, it has ABS+ damper: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Manitou-COMP-27-5-29-inches-100-mm-cone-tube-shoulder-controlling-gas-fork-fork-fork/32721289925.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.lFcyeY

  52. #652
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    Thats not even manitou more than likely, thats probably a counterfit otherwise it is a factory reject thats actually a pile of factory rejects slapped together and being sold by that seller illegally.

    Never ever buy "branded" parts on alibaba. Rarely do you not have problems.

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  53. #653
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    Hot water is good for removing stuck plastic parts. The plastic expands more with heat than the aluminium does.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  54. #654
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    Except both parts are aluminum not plastic, at least in real manitou forks

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  55. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Except both parts are aluminum not plastic, at least in real manitou forks

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    ABS+ comes in versions with aluminium or plastic pistons now. Different price points.

    It's a real manitou damper.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  56. #656
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    Didnt know they made plastic pistons in ABS dampers at all, thats a new one.

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  57. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Didnt know they made plastic pistons in ABS dampers at all, thats a new one.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Maybe within the last year. So yeah it's a new one.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Thats not even manitou more than likely, thats probably a counterfit otherwise it is a factory reject thats actually a pile of factory rejects slapped together and being sold by that seller illegally.

    Never ever buy "branded" parts on alibaba. Rarely do you not have problems.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I hear you, but when the damper is being assembled in the factory the workers slide the piston onto the rod. They make the rod in one piece and then the workers slide the piston onto the rod later. It's impossible that this is a factory reject or a counterfit. The damper is identical to the genuine one and the piston would never fit on the rod if there was a production error on it (extra material being on the part of the rod where the piston slides on type of error).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Hot water is good for removing stuck plastic parts. The plastic expands more with heat than the aluminium does.
    I will try this and report back, thank you!

  59. #659
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    If it was simply slid on it would come right off

    Aliexpress is literally worse than ebay and amazon combined for counterfeit, factory rejects and so on. A factory reject could simply be the batch has the issues you are having, so not user tunable as agreed. That piston being stuck could be from literally sitting in the mold for 3 seconds too long (i spent YEARS in plastics molding, 2-3 seconds, 0.05mm out of spec can me the difference between good or bad part thus reject or not).

    Not saying Im 100% positive but Manitou handing off a ton of forks to be sold stupid cheap straight out of china...like thinking rockshox and fox forks can be found in legit form as well.

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  60. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    If it was simply slid on it would come right off

    Aliexpress is literally worse than ebay and amazon combined for counterfeit, factory rejects and so on. A factory reject could simply be the batch has the issues you are having, so not user tunable as agreed. That piston being stuck could be from literally sitting in the mold for 3 seconds too long (i spent YEARS in plastics molding, 2-3 seconds, 0.05mm out of spec can me the difference between good or bad part thus reject or not).

    Not saying Im 100% positive but Manitou handing off a ton of forks to be sold stupid cheap straight out of china...like thinking rockshox and fox forks can be found in legit form as well.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Well, I am sure the rod is a single piece of aluminum so I don't see how else the piston can be installed other than being slid on the rod. Maybe the plastic is deformed in a way that the piston slides on the rod easily, but can't slide off.
    The fork really was dirt cheap and even if I bought a new damper, I would still spend less than what the fork costs when bought at official distributor, this is one good thing about all this.

    The hot water trick didn't work, the piston was still rock solid and not moving after being submerged 5mins in a hot water.

  61. #661
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    They make different versions for the SEA market
    And KT damper has a plastic piston, by the way, so this one might be from the same mold, just removable (well, most of the time) and with a tuneable shim stack

    X-fusion too has models won't see on their site being sold in China (X-32 EVO, for example)

  62. #662
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    What is the correct oil height for a 2015 Minute Pro? I seem unable to find that info on Manitou's pages or elsewhere. In the 2012 version it should be 87 mm and in the 2016-2017 version it is 75 mm. In mine it was 83 mm, after I had removed the damper and only spilled a few drops. I just bought it, but it is a model year 2015. I find the fork too soft for me, and perhaps it is because it has been running with too low oil.

  63. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by olao View Post
    What is the correct oil height for a 2015 Minute Pro? I seem unable to find that info on Manitou's pages or elsewhere. In the 2012 version it should be 87 mm and in the 2016-2017 version it is 75 mm. In mine it was 83 mm, after I had removed the damper and only spilled a few drops. I just bought it, but it is a model year 2015. I find the fork too soft for me, and perhaps it is because it has been running with too low oil.
    On the M30 manual for 2015, you have the oil chart for all the forks of that year.
    They usually don't change it anyway.
    Your Minute Pro it's listed there, the oil level is 75mm.
    Go check it yourself, just to make sure.

  64. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aglo View Post
    On the M30 manual for 2015, you have the oil chart for all the forks of that year.
    Ok, thanks a lot. Should have checked there, I guess. Still, Manitou could have done better than hiding their user relevant information like that, imho.

    Have now added oil up to 75 mm, and it does feel better going up and down on the sidewalks around the house. Might try it on the trails later today, but it is extremely wet and muddy at the moment, so nearly impossible to go fast on anything bumpy...

    Nevertheless, I still believe it is a little to soft for me. It has the production XC stack (2 19x0.2 mm shims), but even at MAX it does not give a really firm platform. For me, that is - at 90 kg (200 lbs) and using around 100 psi. Am currently trying to order some more shims to play around with different stack setups.

    After having had the damper apart a couple of times to inspect and measure the shims (and oil level), I feel uncertain about how hard to torque the nut below the piston. Have read the previous posts on the topic, but am not sure I understand the consequences of over- vs. under-tightening the nut. After all, there is a spring, but that seems to be entirely compressed anyways.

    Edit: Went out on the driest trails and dirt roads I could find today (darn wet and muddy anyway), and it is a great fork. Still a little soft for steep ascents in the MAX, but perfect on bumpy trails and descents when 60-90 degrees open. Should correspond to 2-3 clicks I guess (but I have no clicks as mine is remote ready, so mounted without the spring and dialed by eye).
    Last edited by olao; 11-19-2017 at 02:52 PM.

  65. #665
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    My current compression shim stack looks like this.
    PISTON
    17.5x0.20 (2)
    19x0.20
    19x0.15 (2)
    19x0.10
    17.5x0.15
    15x0.10
    13x0.10
    11x0.50
    10x0.15

    The 10x0.15 obviously does nothing.
    The fork has 100mm of travel.

  66. #666
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    New question here.

    I want to tweak the shim stack in my Marvel Pro, but the Abs+ damper seems to be stuck. Here's what I did:
    1. Opened LSC (anticlockwise to max).
    2. Removed adjuster knob, ball bearings and springs.
    3. Unscrewed the damper with a 24mm hex socket until it started to "jump" on thread, so there should be no thread engaged.
    4. Tried to pull the damper up, but it won't budge.

    Can anyone help? Do I have to apply more force? The damper has not been removed before.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20180529_145606.jpg  


  67. #667
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    Basically yes. Try to move it left and right while pulling outwards.

  68. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Basically yes. Try to move it left and right while pulling outwards.
    Nope, still doesn't work. There was comment about letting the air out earlier in thread, should I have done that too?

  69. #669
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    the same situation with mattoc. This cap is sealed by o-ring deep in stanchion. It helds so much that every time I try to get it out my fingers suffer. IMO try harder and move it left-right during pulling. Then suddenly loud POOOOP occurs and everything is covered with damper oil

  70. #670
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    Finally made it with help of copper wire, I wrapped it under the damper and pulled up. Just like @nikon255 said, my previous attempts resulted in finger ache, but the wire can be pulled with anything hooked.

    Thanks for help, guys.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20180529_163528.jpg  


  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaster_1 View Post
    Finally made it with help of copper wire, I wrapped it under the damper and pulled up. Just like @nikon255 said, my previous attempts resulted in finger ache, but the wire can be pulled with anything hooked.

    Thanks for help, guys.
    Grab the stanchion by both hands, and firmly but slowly push the damper up by both thumbs, while wiggling it a little to the sides. Don't rush it, but let it take a few seconds to get it out. That usually works just fine, and mostly also avoids spilling much oil.

  72. #672
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    after few times I found the same method, just gradually pull with some side to side movement.

  73. #673
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    I have some 17od shims laying around but their id is 6 instead of 8. Can i drill them out to fit the shaft or would that be impossible?

  74. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurck View Post
    I have some 17od shims laying around but their id is 6 instead of 8. Can i drill them out to fit the shaft or would that be impossible?
    It doesn't work that way. Your best bet is to buy new shims

    You can also email [email protected] and nicely ask. If you are lucky, they may send you a few for free

  75. #675
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    Thanks, i値l try it that way. Or order the ABS+ tuning kit somewhere. I値l probably need to contact manitou tech support for the 2 mcleods i知 running. Those shims aren稚 for sale (yet?)

    My mcleods are from when they first came out, so they probably still have the old shimstack. I still need to open them up to check for sure

  76. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurck View Post
    Thanks, i値l try it that way. Or order the ABS+ tuning kit somewhere. I値l probably need to contact manitou tech support for the 2 mcleods i知 running. Those shims aren稚 for sale (yet?)

    My mcleods are from when they first came out, so they probably still have the old shimstack. I still need to open them up to check for sure
    You can order shims online for about 1$ a piece plus shipping. It's kinda a crazy price, but is worth it if the don't send you a few (they probably will)

  77. #677
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    Finally got around to measuring up and posting the ABS+ mini tuning kit shims.

    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/abs-tun...l-manitou.html

    Contains 24 metric shims.

    8x10x0.1 (x2)
    8x10x0.15 (x2)
    8x10x0.2 (x2)
    8x11x0.5 (x1)
    8x17.5x0.1 (x2)
    8x17.5x0.15 (x2)
    8x17.5x0.2 (x2)
    8x19x0.1 (x2)
    8x19x0.15 (x4)
    8x19x0.2 (x4)
    10x20x0.15 (x1)
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  78. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Finally got around to measuring up and posting the ABS+ mini tuning kit shims.
    That's a good deal, more shims and cheaper than from RSP 👍

  79. #679
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    I put oil in my air chamber to make it more progressive. Worked for a while, but now it is all gone. Guess I read some early posts in this thread and looked no further. In somewhat later posts it is explained how oil is gradually sucked down below the piston. So now I wonder, where exactly did my oil go? I have a Minute Pro with MARS air. I know that mullen119 has explained previously that it goes into the negative chamber, but is that so for a MARS fork? If I understand the anatomy of my fork it should first arrive in the chamber of the coil. If it is there, I guess it does little harm, but if it is in the negative it would reduce negative volume and make the fork harsh (and it is a bit harsh).

  80. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by olao View Post
    I put oil in my air chamber to make it more progressive. Worked for a while, but now it is all gone. Guess I read some early posts in this thread and looked no further. In somewhat later posts it is explained how oil is gradually sucked down below the piston. So now I wonder, where exactly did my oil go? I have a Minute Pro with MARS air. I know that mullen119 has explained previously that it goes into the negative chamber, but is that so for a MARS fork? If I understand the anatomy of my fork it should first arrive in the chamber of the coil. If it is there, I guess it does little harm, but if it is in the negative it would reduce negative volume and make the fork harsh (and it is a bit harsh).
    MARS has no negative chamber, so the oil flows down into the lower leg bath oil.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  81. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    MARS has no negative chamber, so the oil flows down into the lower leg bath oil.
    Oh, so I did not understand the anatomy of my fork... But then anyway, I will just leave it there until next time I have a reason to open up the lowers. I guess that should not be a problem. It is good oil - supergliss :-) The harshness I will try to fix through the shim stack.

  82. #682
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    Hi, I'm in the process of upgrading my wife's hardtail with a machete with ABS damper.

    Now that I have the damper sitting in front of me, can I get a suggestion for adjusting the shim stack (for now without buying a set of shims to play around with, but if necessary I can probably transplant some from a 2012 Minute Pro I have on the shelf) ) for a very light not aggressive rider?

    Weight:48-49 kg
    Trails: loose over hard interspersed with small rock gardens
    Speed: low, still trying to get her to let the bike keep momentum over "scary" stuff and hope the new fork will help
    Thanks!

    (Side question: the blue damper oil that I poured out -with the intention to reuse) had a lot of micro bubbles. Was that due to the removal? Should I just use new oil?)

  83. #683
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    How to guide: Reshim your ABS+ HSC shim stack-img_20190618_124550.jpg

    A picture to show what I'm working with:

    On the left is the damper from a new 2018 machete 27.5 straight tube QR
    On the right is the damper from a 2012 Minute pro 26

    After measuring the stock shims, it looks like the machete comes with the production XC stack and the minute came with the trail stack.

    Also of interest: The machete damper has a plastic piston as well as a different check valve design (drilled) with separate spacer to keep the spring centered.

    My initial thought is to try the "EK-012611-03" (11x0.5, 19x0.2, 17.5x0.2) but am wondering about the effect of just leaving out the 17.5 speed shim and using (11x0.5, 19x0.2)

    Without a set of thinner shims to try there's not much else on the table at the moment that I can think of.

  84. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20190618_124550.jpg 
Views:	243 
Size:	165.9 KB 
ID:	1258519

    A picture to show what I'm working with:

    On the left is the damper from a new 2018 machete 27.5 straight tube QR
    On the right is the damper from a 2012 Minute pro 26

    After measuring the stock shims, it looks like the machete comes with the production XC stack and the minute came with the trail stack.

    Also of interest: The machete damper has a plastic piston as well as a different check valve design (drilled) with separate spacer to keep the spring centered.

    My initial thought is to try the "EK-012611-03" (11x0.5, 19x0.2, 17.5x0.2) but am wondering about the effect of just leaving out the 17.5 speed shim and using (11x0.5, 19x0.2)

    Without a set of thinner shims to try there's not much else on the table at the moment that I can think of.
    I'm ~150lb-ish and my old/spare bike has a Minute Expert ('12) and I ran the 17.5x0.15mm speed shim without the 19mm shim. It will be more forgiving at low speeds (I have lots of rooty/rocky twisty singletrack) and feel fairly bottomless on bigger hits. If she finds it too unstable then you could try adding a thin 19mm shim.

  85. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertride View Post


    A picture to show what I'm working with:

    On the left is the damper from a new 2018 machete 27.5 straight tube QR
    On the right is the damper from a 2012 Minute pro 26

    After measuring the stock shims, it looks like the machete comes with the production XC stack and the minute came with the trail stack.

    Also of interest: The machete damper has a plastic piston as well as a different check valve design (drilled) with separate spacer to keep the spring centered.

    My initial thought is to try the "EK-012611-03" (11x0.5, 19x0.2, 17.5x0.2) but am wondering about the effect of just leaving out the 17.5 speed shim and using (11x0.5, 19x0.2)

    Without a set of thinner shims to try there's not much else on the table at the moment that I can think of.
    You will want a linear stack so 11 and 17.5x.2t and if you get the mini-kit or shims elsewhere online try thinner 17.5s; Remember it takes 8x 0.1t to equal one 0.2t (0.2^3 = 8*(0.1^3))
    Going through a similar thing with my wife's Magnum on an Airborne Griffin B+ hardtail

  86. #686
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    Not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but it has has been really helpful. My fork is feeling much better having long suspected it was too harsh for my situation.

    On a side note, each time I crack the damper open (every once in a while) my oil level is higher. I知 guessing the oil is migrating from the lowers? Would anyone know what o ring to replace on the damper piston. This is on an OEM 2018 Mattoc Comp.

  87. #687
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    Any ABS+ tuners have any input on this stack?

    Trying to put together a winter setup for a Machete 32mm stanchion 140mm travel, switched to RS 2.5wt Oil for winter. Running a Dirt Wizard 27.5x3 for winter. Looking for a plush setup with around 125N of platform that is very compliant on small bumps, but with great mid support and traction for winter messy conditions.

    So far i have:

    11mmx.5t clamp washer
    13mmx.1t platform
    19mmx.15t platform
    19mmx.15t platform
    10mmx.25t preload reducer
    17mmx.15t speed
    piston

    If anyone with time tuning these stacks has any input it would be much appreciated!

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