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  1. #1

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    Help me stop the bobbing

    I ride a specialized rockhopper fsr xc comp '03. It has a fox float r rear shock and a manitou axel super front shock. To get to the point when climbing out of the sadle i look like im on a pogo stick and when seated going up a hill i also bob. I am 120 pounds and have currently 200 psi in my rear shock. id love to here some tips on stopping the bobing in my rear shock and in my front but im more worried about my rear shock. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Learn to pedal smoothly.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    Platform shocks or lockouts needed

    Quote Originally Posted by northparkrider
    I ride a specialized rockhopper fsr xc comp '03. It has a fox float r rear shock and a manitou axel super front shock. To get to the point when climbing out of the sadle i look like im on a pogo stick and when seated going up a hill i also bob. I am 120 pounds and have currently 200 psi in my rear shock. id love to here some tips on stopping the bobing in my rear shock and in my front but im more worried about my rear shock. Thanks.
    FSR's bob A LOT without some sort of suspension lockout. Either manual lockout switches on the shock and fork, or automatic lockout "platform" valved shock and fork.

    You could send your Float to Push Industries and have a platform valve added. You might be able to add the SVP platform valve internals to your fork, call Manitou Tech Support to find out.

    Otherwise you could over pressure and over damp the shock and fork like Ned Overand did when he raced FSR's with topped out suspension.

    There are some much better pedaling suspension designs now, particularly the DW-Link Iron Horse Azure at pretty low prices, and close copies such as the Giant Trance or BMC's version of the DW-Link.

    - ray

  4. #4

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    -> first, check your damping settings. add as much rebound as possible without sacrificing downhill performance.

    -> then, maybe reduce sag a little but but don't overdo it, as that would give you a bad ride.

    -> finally, stick with jayhem's advice: learn to pedal your bike smoothly!

    i used to own one of specialized older enduro models and was very happy with the bike while i was still riding a considerable amount of miles each year (~1500-2000miles/year). after my daugther was born i did'nt ride at all for one year, and was unhappy ever after (with my bike, not my daugther) having forgotten how to pedal smoothly.

    while the tendency to bob is a certain disadvantage of the fsr bikes, you get very good bump compliancy while pedalling on the other side, making that type of bikes a very good choice for experienced riders. yet, less experienced riders may want to look at bikes with higher (virtual) pivot points.
    Last edited by igorion; 06-29-2006 at 03:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Alpine Rider (Italy)
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    Quote Originally Posted by northparkrider
    I ride a specialized rockhopper fsr xc comp '03. I am 120 pounds and have currently 200 psi in my rear shock.
    probably it doesn't work. 200psi are way too much for your weight. i'm 140lbs . i have never needed more than 140-150 psi.

  6. #6
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    Sounds more like lack of general damping to me. When was the last time you had your shock serviced?
    Remember, there is no black magic or witchcraft, it's only a machine

  7. #7
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    Technique for smooth standing pedaling

    Quote Originally Posted by igorion
    -> first, check your damping settings. add as much rebound as possible without sacrificing downhill performance.

    -> then, maybe reduce sag a little but but don't overdo it, as that would give you a bad ride.

    -> finally, stick with jayhem's advice: learn to pedal your bike smoothly!

    i used to own one of specialized older enduro models and was very happy with the bike while i was still riding a considerable amount of miles each year (~1500-2000miles/year). after my daugther was born i did'nt ride at all for one year, and was unhappy ever after (with my bike, not my daugther) having forgotten how to pedal smoothly.

    while the tendency to bob is a certain disadvantage of the fsr bikes, you get very good bump compliancy while pedalling on the other side, making that type of bikes a very good choice for experienced riders. yet, less experienced riders may want to look at bikes with higher (virtual) pivot points.
    While standing and pedaling, obviously you don't want to pedal more easily to be smoother, and spinning with a more (so called) "round" pedal stroke is impossible while standing.

    But you can make the standing pedaling reaction more “oval” than “square”.

    While standing and pedaling, pull up on the same side handlebar grip as you push down on that side's pedal, and rock the bike sideways in opposite to the direction of your downward foot pressure (rocking slightly in the direction you pull on the grip). This will lengthen the range of each downward pedal stroke pressure to reduce the weakness gap between alternate foot pedal strokes. Some rhythm sense will come as you gain experience with this technique, to vary cadence with the conditions and the ability of the bike to react. The bike will still bob but not as deeply, and improve consistent traction and momentum.

    Watch roadies as they stand and accelerate from a stop sign, or Lance as he starts a time-trial or attacks on a climb, waving the bike side to side at first as he stands and accelerates. This is similar in technique although mushy pedaling suspension like FSR's, ICT's, and low monopivots without lockouts or over damping require a slower cadence than the more advanced suspensions now or hardtails.



    - ray

  8. #8

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    okay the deal with the bike is that i havent actualy owned it for 3 years but rather 6 months. For the time before that it sat unsold in a bike shop, i then needing to upgrade from my 24 inch wheel hardtail (im 14) so i bought the bike for 600 which was half of the original 1100 that they wanted for it in 2003. So i right now dont have money to upgrade but i dont think ill be buying another specialized fullsuspension bike in my life. so at this point im going to look into sending it to push or a place in socal called garage works to have them add a lockout.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    You could send your Float to Push Industries and have a platform valve added. You might be able to add the SVP platform valve internals to your fork, call Manitou Tech Support to find out.

    Otherwise you could over pressure and over damp the shock and fork like Ned Overand did when he raced FSR's with topped out suspension.
    FSR bikes don't need a platform. Any bike is going to bob out of the saddle when mashing the pedals due to weight transfer, unless it's got a platform cranked up, and in that case your bike will perform like crap because the platform keeps the suspension from performing to it's maximum potential.

    These other bikes (reign, etc) will bob when you mash out of the saddle, and I've done it myself on them. They are good bikes that generally don't bob much at all during normal circumstances, but the weight shift and "pulses" of torque will cause the bike to bob, because it's the pedal torque that helps cancel out some of those tendancies, so if you're turning it "on and off" at a slower interval, you can induce bobbing quite easily.

    What this really sounds like is a hardtail rider trying to transition to an FS bike. The bike is going to do some things, just like how a car unweights different ends when it's accellerating or deaccellerating. I'm not saying there are similer things going on, just that there are inherent properties of an FS bike that you have to get used to.

    The biggest peice of advice I could give would be this; The bike doesn't go slower because it bobs a little, it's because it weighs a few more pounds more. A few more pounds seems to have a much more detrimental effect IMO, because every pedal stroke is an accelleration, and trying to accellerate a heavier mass really takes a toll on the body, even if it's not that much heavier.

    If you make the bike more inactive with a platform, as derby is suggesting, you also decrease traction and can cause the bike to stall and skip easier when climbing up nasty steep rocky climbs. This can make these situations much worse, compared to a more active bike that bobs a little.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    The problem is your pedal stroke. Changing the bike setup to reduce the bobbing is going to make for massive compromises in how well the suspension works.

    First learn to put the power down smoothly when you're seated. When you've got that sorted, then work on pedalling smoothly out of the saddle.

    Expect it to take about a year to develop a good technique.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  11. #11
    I CAN ALWAYS GO BIGGER
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    Get a lockout,or even a new bike with lockout

  12. #12

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    does anyone know where you can buy a new fox rear shock. I cant seem to find them anywere.

  13. #13
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    Bought a DHX 5.0 Coil from The Path in Tustin, CA a month ago.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by northparkrider
    does anyone know where you can buy a new fox rear shock. I cant seem to find them anywere.
    PUSH can tune your shock for much less than a new shock would cost. Worth considering.

    FWIW I do most of my climbing seated. FSR Bobbing is mostly caused by your bodyweight moving up and down while standing, like some folks have mentioned, and platform tuning the shock will reduce that a bit.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    ...
    These other bikes (reign, etc) will bob when you mash out of the saddle, and I've done it myself on them.
    ...
    Interesting. I pretty much agree with about everything you post that I have similar ride time experience with. I haven't ridden the Reign or any Maestro. From your description apparently the Reign isn't as close a DW-Link copy as it looks like. The DW link barely moves at all (and my 200 pounds of weight can move a suspension), even less than any VPP, when standing and pounding on the pedals climbing on smooth pavement. While it also has smoother pedaling feel than all but the lowest monopivots and FSR.

    I also agree that bob isn't that big a deal for an expert suspension bike rider, unless heavier and taller than the average weight rider, like me, where weight is much higher above the wheels and wallow bob and inertia misdirection is exaggerated.

    Small to average weight (165 lb.) riders just don’t upset a suspension very much, and extraordinarily strong heavier riders can just power through awkward inefficiencies in design. I'll bet you don't weigh more than 170. Dougal weighs about 145. It always amazes and somewhat frustrates me when some 145 pound guy who rides once a month, even less, will just disappear past me up the start of a longer climb But then after about 20 minutes I’ll catch and pass them and usually ride faster the rest of the ride due to better aerobic fitness. The lighter rider has huge advantages, especially if they ride a lot. I think that my heavier weight has given me the ability to notice suspension performance balance and efficiency improvements more than the average or small sized expert rider.

    - ray

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Interesting. I pretty much agree with about everything you post that I have similar ride time experience with. I haven't ridden the Reign or any Maestro. From your description apparently the Reign isn't as close a DW-Link copy as it looks like.
    It's not quite that easy, but if you're a hack and your pedal stroke is horrible when out of the saddle, you'll see some. If you are halfway decent, it will barely move like the DW link.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    It's not quite that easy, but if you're a hack and your pedal stroke is horrible when out of the saddle, you'll see some. If you are halfway decent, it will barely move like the DW link.
    Interesting.... I run my 05' Reign with a Pushed RP3 in the -'ve position 100% of the time. It has next to no platform in that setting. The more you torque the pedals, the less it bobs while out of the saddle. If I'm trying to keep my momentum up a short pitch and I'm spinning like mad out of the saddle, the bike bobs a bit. As I slow my spin (and torque more) toward the crest of the hill, it bobs less. Also, the bike doesn't bob out of the saddle much under acceleration, but if you're decelerating or just maintaining a speed, it will bob. It also bobs less in the middle ring, and less again in the big ring.

    No bob to speak of in the saddle.

    The most amazing thing about this bike is how is pedals in and out of the saddle over bumps.

    I really love this bike.... much better suspension IMHO than the 4 bar I was on (Turner Burner).
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  18. #18

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    Bob Who is Bob?

    I have to chuckle when i see these posts,I have never owned a hard tale and only started biking 4 years ago at age 40, so Bob to me is just not an issue because i never new a non bobing bike,Its just a part of cycleing imo and you just live with it and try to minimize it with body english.

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