GRIP2 +Luftkappe or Fit4+Fractive+Luftkappe?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    GRIP2 +Luftkappe or Fit4+Fractive+Luftkappe?

    Iím currently a 280lb rider, trying to find the best upgrade. Currently have a 2018 Fox 36 Fit4 Evol 170mm fork. Trying to figure out which would give the best ride and adjustment.

    Iíve read good reviews from both setups but nothing specific for my weight so Iím looking for more insight .

    Thanks


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  2. #2
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    What are the issues you're trying to solve?

  3. #3
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    Fork is not very supple off the top, tends to pack up even with compression being left wide open. Oddly the rebound doesnít bother me , though I tend to run it fully closed or 1-2 from closed. If I run it to far open it feels like crap and makes my arms/hands hurt after long descents .

    Have tried running LSC in middle setting have heard some say that helps, did not help me. Iíve spent almost a year on the fork, run the gamut with settings nothing works to get me the ride Iím looking for.


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Fork is not very supple off the top, tends to pack up even with compression being left wide open. Oddly the rebound doesnít bother me , though I tend to run it fully closed or 1-2 from closed. If I run it to far open it feels like crap and makes my arms/hands hurt after long descents .

    Have tried running LSC in middle setting have heard some say that helps, did not help me. Iíve spent almost a year on the fork, run the gamut with settings nothing works to get me the ride Iím looking for.


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    Wait what? How much do you weigh? Unless you're running about 120psi your rebound is way too slow and causing the packing problem

    Start opening that up, then the first upgrade I suggest is the Luftkappe, then you may as well go for a fractive tune which is much cheaper than a new damper and will be properly tuned for you
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Wait what? How much do you weigh? Unless you're running about 120psi your rebound is way too slow and causing the packing problem

    Start opening that up, then the first upgrade I suggest is the Luftkappe, then you may as well go for a fractive tune which is much cheaper than a new damper and will be properly tuned for you
    I weigh about 280lbs and yeah run about 120psi, good guess.

    If I open it up it feels too chattery, it actually feels better to me slower.

    Do you think Iím running to high psi and need to lower, then open up rebound? Suggestions? Iím willing to try something new just not sure where to begin.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Iím currently a 280lb rider, trying to find the best upgrade. Currently have a 2018 Fox 36 Fit4 Evol 170mm fork. Trying to figure out which would give the best ride and adjustment.

    Iíve read good reviews from both setups but nothing specific for my weight so Iím looking for more insight .

    Thanks


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    Contact Michael at fullflow suspension Auburn,CA.

    He is well versed in what info your seeking.
    He will educate you and point you in the right direction..

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagonger View Post
    Contact Michael at fullflow suspension Auburn,CA.

    He is well versed in what info your seeking.
    He will educate you and point you in the right direction..

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
    Sent an email, thanks.
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  8. #8
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    I agree, I have never heard of someone running 1 click off from fully damped rebound...something odd is amiss...I def recommend figuring how to get the most out of current fork before moving into modification of the internals

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    I weigh about 280lbs and yeah run about 120psi, good guess.

    If I open it up it feels too chattery, it actually feels better to me slower.

    Do you think Iím running to high psi and need to lower, then open up rebound? Suggestions? Iím willing to try something new just not sure where to begin.


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    Ok, that makes more sense now. Sorry if I missed your weight in the first post

    Basically, the fork is way underdamped for you in compression and rebound so you will have to compromise ride quality somewhere by staying with the stock damper.

    You could go with less pressure and faster rebound, then add in some volume reducers. That might improve sensitivity but it will be less stable and harsh on bigger bumps.

    You are definitely a good candidate for the Fractive tune, although it doesn't include a rebound revalve as standard so I would request a firmer rebound setting at the same time.

    I've fitted Fractive kits for several people 220-260lb, usually along with a luftkappe and had great feedback
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    Ok, that makes more sense now. Sorry if I missed your weight in the first post

    Basically, the fork is way underdamped for you in compression and rebound so you will have to compromise ride quality somewhere by staying with the stock damper.

    You could go with less pressure and faster rebound, then add in some volume reducers. That might improve sensitivity but it will be less stable and harsh on bigger bumps.

    You are definitely a good candidate for the Fractive tune, although it doesn't include a rebound revalve as standard so I would request a firmer rebound setting at the same time.

    I've fitted Fractive kits for several people 220-260lb, usually along with a luftkappe and had great feedback
    Not sure what to do about the rebound, I'm purchasing the Luftkappe and Fractive tune, having them installed locally (Seattle) by a local suspension guy, he's not a tuner though, just does rebuilds. Don't really like the idea of sending my fork out and waiting a month to have it tuned, sadly not much locally. Will probably have to see how things go and take steps afterward if there are still issues. Thanks for the helpful insight, appreciate it.
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  11. #11
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    Grip2 has noticeably less sticktion then the Fit4. It is the gold standard of dampers right now. I have cycle both of them out of the fork. Fractive tune will not be better than a stock grip2 as the lower seal on the fit4 contributors the majority of the drag.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Grip2 has noticeably less sticktion then the Fit4. It is the gold standard of dampers right now. I have cycle both of them out of the fork. Fractive tune will not be better than a stock grip2 as the lower seal on the fit4 contributors the majority of the drag.
    I've had grip and grip2 and FIT4 with fractive tuning. The last option felt the best to me. Cycling dampers out of the fork is hardly the best test I wouldn't think.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    I've had grip and grip2 and FIT4 with fractive tuning. The last option felt the best to me. Cycling dampers out of the fork is hardly the best test I wouldn't think.
    Cycling the damper out of the fork will provide zero information on the actual damping. We agree on that.

    It will tell you how much break away force is required to start movement though. That break away force is a major contributor to small bump compliance. It also changes the stick and release characteristic when braking or transitioning your weight.

    The Grip2 lower seal has a loose fit and contributes almost no friction to the damper. It's pretty amazing how little force it takes to initiate travel.

    With that said, Vorsprung is top notch! Everything they make is awesome and will improve your bike. I'm sure the the fractive tune is a big upgrade and will make a noticeable difference.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  14. #14
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    I know this is really annoying, but I'm also throwing the idea of the Avalanche Racing SSD Cartridge in the mix, JohnnyC7 mentioned the rebound damper not being adjusted and that got me thinking. Also talking with the local suspension guy mentioned that the bladder system Fox uses isnt the best for big guys, has tendency to bleed, which got me thinking about Avalanche.

    Already sent an email to Craig, to see what my options are, which features are better if he can do anything for me - ABS vs HSB.

    Sorry to be such a PITA, I just really want to get this right the first time and not be throwing money at it for months to come.
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  15. #15
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    Just spent a good 53 minutes on the phone with Craig at Avalanche, I have a good understanding of where I need to go and what needs to be done. Unfortunately I'm really just to big of a rider to benefit from just a Luftkappe and Fractive tuning, a full damper setup it going to benefit me much better. Thank you all for your input.
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  16. #16
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    The fractive kit will work great for you...thatís why it has several options for compression tunes. Have a look at their youtune calculator to see what I mean

    Not sure what they are talking about the bladder system not working for big guys.....thatís rubbish it doesnít make any difference.

    A rebound revalve is simple, I would suggest your man emails vorsprung for some guidance or else he can always email me as well

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford View Post
    Just spent a good 53 minutes on the phone with Craig at Avalanche, I have a good understanding of where I need to go and what needs to be done. Unfortunately I'm really just to big of a rider to benefit from just a Luftkappe and Fractive tuning, a full damper setup it going to benefit me much better. Thank you all for your input.
    If your spring is sub optimal it doesn't matter what the damper is doing.

    Sadly someone loves to bamboozle people and riders and sell them the latest old tech.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Messiah View Post
    If your spring is sub optimal it doesn't matter what the damper is doing.

    Sadly someone loves to bamboozle people and riders and sell them the latest old tech.
    I'm not sure I get what your implying, care to explain?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyC7 View Post
    The fractive kit will work great for you...thatís why it has several options for compression tunes. Have a look at their youtune calculator to see what I mean

    Not sure what they are talking about the bladder system not working for big guys.....thatís rubbish it doesnít make any difference.

    A rebound revalve is simple, I would suggest your man emails vorsprung for some guidance or else he can always email me as well
    With regards to the bladder here is what the rebuild guy said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Suspension tech
    bladder dampers tend to ingest bath oil and the bladder starts to swell as it fills up; too much oil inside and the damping doesn't work properly. When they're super full, they bind in the last half of the travel and when they're REALLY full the bladder pops since the fluid has nowhere to go...
    There was more but this is the gist of it, which I inferred from that conversation, that bladders can be problematic for larger riders and also require a lot more maintenance than a system like the Avalanche cartridge. According to what my guy said bladder systems, especially with heavier riders, need more attention more often, whereas the Avy Cart just requires a simple drain and refill, something a home mech can accomplish rather easily, which appeals to me.
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  20. #20
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    Your weight has no bearing of how the bladder of a damper works other than the extra heat created. Unless you are only using it for DH runs back to back heat will not be an issue. Open dampers are easier to service and cheaper to make, but weigh more and use sub-optimal fluids. Since it shares the open bath with the lower legs.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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