Fox Float AVA vs RP23- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Fox Float AVA vs RP23

    Can anyone tell me if a Fox AVA RL will work well for me? I took an RP23 off my Ventana El Ciclon, and swapped it out with the AVA today. It fits, and it seems like it is the same length i2i, but I dont understand much about the differences in shock length stroke length vs compression ratio or leverage ratio and what all that stuff means. Sorry if the question seems convoluted or dumb.


    Another question I have is, how will those two shocks compare to eachother? I have the high volume can RP23, but dont really like how it feels, and want to try to tune the AVA to make it feel right.

    Thanks for any comments.
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  2. #2
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    I heard the RP23 large volume air can is bigger than the AVA at its max volume, so if you need a more linear shock, the AVA won't be as good as the RP23. If you need a more progressive shock, then the AVA might be good, but it doesn't have adjustable (or any?) Propedal like the RP23.

  3. #3
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    I had a PUSHED Float R AVA on my Ventana X-5. I performed great with no knobs to mess around with.....a set it and for get it set up. I performed just as good as the RP3. I have a PUSHED RP23 on my El Ciclon which performs perfect for my riding style. I also have a PUSHED Float R as a back up shock....that also performs flawless.

    I would measure the eye-to-eye because if it's short then you might smack the seat stay yoke on the seat tube. What year is your Ciclon....2009 is bumped up to 140mm travel which requires a 2.25 inch stroke shock. All else are 127mm (5 inch) which uses a 2.0 inch stroke.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info. Its a 2007 Ciclon. Holding them side by side in my hands they looked the same, but I will measure it tomorrow to be sure.

    As for adjustments: other than adjusting the air voume, which is a pain because you need to deflate it all the way, there is a rebound adjustment and a lockout. I like the idea of set it and forget it.
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  5. #5
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    I don't notice much difference between my AVA and my RP3 BUT both are PUSHED. If you don't need platform then the AVA will definitely do the job. I highly suggest getting it PUSHED - dramatically improved it IMHO.

    Have FUN!

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc
    I heard the RP23 large volume air can is bigger than the AVA at its max volume, so if you need a more linear shock, the AVA won't be as good as the RP23. If you need a more progressive shock, then the AVA might be good, but it doesn't have adjustable (or any?) Propedal like the RP23.
    You got that one backwards. Darren at Push Ind. mentioned that they had tested the AVA sleeve to be a larger air volume when closed completely than the High Volume sleeve. When I swapped air sleeves from AVA to HV the amount that they ramped up on install confirmed this (it was much harder to get the HV sleeve on, as in lower volume so higher pressure and harder to compress to the threads).

    To the OP, the AVA sleeve will likely be a decent match to what it sounds like you want. The RL is a step backwards though. The new platform style damping is IMO a better way to go that full hydraulic lockout. The platform has many benefits, most noteworthy is that it will open the damper and allow movement when you need it.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    You got that one backwards. Darren at Push Ind. mentioned that they had tested the AVA sleeve to be a larger air volume when closed completely than the High Volume sleeve. When I swapped air sleeves from AVA to HV the amount that they ramped up on install confirmed this (it was much harder to get the HV sleeve on, as in lower volume so higher pressure and harder to compress to the threads).

    To the OP, the AVA sleeve will likely be a decent match to what it sounds like you want. The RL is a step backwards though. The new platform style damping is IMO a better way to go that full hydraulic lockout. The platform has many benefits, most noteworthy is that it will open the damper and allow movement when you need it.

    I am still a little bit confused:
    So, let me get this straight. Decreasing the spring rate (threading it up the shock) is the same as closing the can, and this increases the volume?


    What does the rl signify? I was under the impression it meant it was longer?


    As a rider who weighs 225 geared up, what is better for a plush ride, high or low air volume?

    Thanks
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three Phase
    I am still a little bit confused:
    So, let me get this straight. Decreasing the spring rate (threading it up the shock) is the same as closing the can, and this increases the volume?


    What does the rl signify? I was under the impression it meant it was longer?


    As a rider who weighs 225 geared up, what is better for a plush ride, high or low air volume?

    Thanks
    If I understand you correctly you have a Float AVA RL which has a lockout. This shock albeit a good shock doesn't have propedal hence the lockout. Propedal eliminates the need for lockout on todays full suspension bikes. If you plan to use the AVA as is then you are stepping back in time and the Ciclon will not perform as intended. If you want to experiment with spring rates then put the AVA sleeve on the RP3. What are you looking to gain? If you're not happy with the RP23 then send it to PUSH......I have the trail tune on my RP23 and it suites my riding style and the trails I ride.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    If I understand you correctly you have a Float AVA RL which has a lockout. This shock albeit a good shock doesn't have propedal hence the lockout. Propedal eliminates the need for lockout on todays full suspension bikes. If you plan to use the AVA as is then you are stepping back in time and the Ciclon will not perform as intended. If you want to experiment with spring rates then put the AVA sleeve on the RP3. What are you looking to gain? If you're not happy with the RP23 then send it to PUSH......I have the trail tune on my RP23 and it suites my riding style and the trails I ride.

    Honesty, I had the extra shock laying in my garage and I want to sell one of them so that I can purchase the El Chivo 69er hardtail sooner than later. I dont really want to send the RP23 to Push yet for the same reason. The RP23 (un-pushed) is an just an ok shock imho. I dont really care much about the pro pedal either. I found that I was only using it as a lockout on climbs anyways, so I am trying to see if I can tune the ava to make it feel like the RP23 or even better (when the propedal would otherwise have been off).

    As for the the Ciclon not performing as intended; do you think that the shock makes the bike? I dont. I realize that is what came on the frame, but I dont really think it will change the performance of the frame drastically. But I dont know yet.
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  10. #10
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    Three Phase, you are confused
    Increasing the volume of air in the can makes a shock more linear, on most bikes the feeling is more plush. On my heckler it is too soft and will dive into the travel too far even on smaller hits.
    Decreasing the volume means that the air pressure inside the can will rise faster as the shock compresses. This is often referred to as progressive spring. On bikes like my heckler it is a good thing. On some linkage bikes it can lead to not getting full travel or just being plain harsh in mid-travel.

    All that AVA sleeve does for you is allow you to change the characteristics of the air spring. IMO it really doesn't have a wide range of tuning.

    RL vs. RP23 is just as mtnbiker4life described. I also attempted to explain, but may have over-simplified. The RP23 is a far more advanced shock and IMO better for your bike. If you know how you want it to feel and can't get there with the stock settings, then I recommend sending it to be tuned. Push did a good job on dialing in my RP3 to my requests.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three Phase
    As for the the Ciclon not performing as intended; do you think that the shock makes the bike? I dont. I realize that is what came on the frame, but I dont really think it will change the performance of the frame drastically. But I dont know yet.
    Well, I have done exactly what you want to do. Before I sent my AVA to Push it was on my 2004 X-5. Granted the 2004 frames had a different rocker pivot location then the current frames. The performance was not as good as the RP3. If you're an efficient climber then it will be okay but if you're a pedal masher it will bob especially in the small ring. Currently I have a Pushed RP23 and a Pushed Float R for my Ciclon.....I prefer the Float R because it's one less lever I have to obsess about.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Well, I have done exactly what you want to do. Before I sent my AVA to Push it was on my 2004 X-5. Granted the 2004 frames had a different rocker pivot location then the current frames. The performance was not as good as the RP3. If you're an efficient climber then it will be okay but if you're a pedal masher it will bob especially in the small ring. Currently I have a Pushed RP23 and a Pushed Float R for my Ciclon.....I prefer the Float R because it's one less lever I have to obsess about.
    My uphill riding style depends on my fatigue and fitness level. I tend to be a masher but I figure thats where the lockout comes into play.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Three Phase, you are confused
    Yes, I thought so.



    Thanks for the explainations, I got it now.
    Last edited by Three Phase; 06-16-2009 at 10:35 AM.
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  14. #14
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    FWIW I ran either a DHX coil or a Marzocchi roco air on my Ventana X-5. The roco was a fairly large air volume and had a way to adjust the progressiveness of the air sleeve. I ran it as plush as I could get and had no issue with full travel. Definitely a good match for the ventana rear end IMO. Of course that is a different can of worms than the fox shocks we are talking about here.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

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