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  1. #1401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robik View Post
    Anyone experienced oily stancion after rebuild? It's not leaking, but after each ride it gets accumulated around green o-ring.
    Did you liberally apply slick honey or Sram butter to all your seals and everything inside when you rebuild it? So often is that stuff you actually see not the oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Did you liberally apply slick honey or Sram butter to all your seals and everything inside when you rebuild it? So often is that stuff you actually see not the oil.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, I was generous about lubing all the seals with Sram butter. It looks thicker than oil, specially when mixed with dust.
    So, you think, it will go away with time?

  3. #1403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robik View Post
    Yeah, I was generous about lubing all the seals with Sram butter. It looks thicker than oil, specially when mixed with dust.
    So, you think, it will go away with time?
    Take SRAM butter or it's originator, Slickoleum, and let either get a bit warm and I'm sure they'll melt or liquefy to some extent. I suspect that's what you're seeing and that it will go away just in time for the next service interval. So long as your damping doesn't go to pot, proof you may be leaking oil, I'd say not to worry about it.

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  4. #1404
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    My Topaz has been great so far. Iíve started to notice when in the medium setting the switch will drop into the open setting if the trail gets a little rocky and the bike starts to take on some hits. Has anyone experienced this? Iíve checked the tightness of the switch and the hex nut is tight.


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    Just replaced my inline with a Topaz on my Banshee Prime. Love how plush it is for going downhill but it makes pedaling uphill harder. The rear tends to move so much more with each pedal stroke. I'm 220 geared up. Sag is set at 25-30%. I can bottom out on 2-3 foot drops. Should I just load up the positive side with rings or do I need to add one to the neg side? Any KS-link owners out their care to share their setup?

  6. #1406
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler View Post
    Just replaced my inline with a Topaz on my Banshee Prime. Love how plush it is for going downhill but it makes pedaling uphill harder. The rear tends to move so much more with each pedal stroke. I'm 220 geared up. Sag is set at 25-30%. I can bottom out on 2-3 foot drops. Should I just load up the positive side with rings or do I need to add one to the neg side? Any KS-link owners out their care to share their setup?
    At your weight I'd try 2 POS, 1 neg. The negative bands do a lot for me to manage mid stroke and pedaling forces. Usually I wouldnt suggest making two changes at once, but it sounds like you're a good bit off optimum setup being at 25% sag, blowing through travel and still not great pedaling performance.

  7. #1407
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    Hi, i run Topaz for a few months now, i'm quite happy but...

    1. Is it normal that when i set rebound to fully open (-), shock still returns not so fast? (i can easily see that there is still some rebound damping).
    2. is it possible to strengthen damping in climbing position? my suspension still bobs and i'd like to calm it.

    i have 180psi in a main chamber, 180psi in a bladder. no bands.
    (my weight is about 80kg with gear), 216/63, 160mm travel

  8. #1408
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    Bands in the negative chamber reduce the effect of the negative air spring so that will help you both out with pedal bob. If you're bottoming out add bands to the positive side for a more progressive air spring.

    Rebound adjustment is just a range of low speed rebound, there is a fixed amount of high speed rebound with the main valve to contend with also. Razorjack, since you're only running 180psi I imagine that you are fairly light? If so then ideally you would want a shim taken out of the stack. Just something to keep in mind for the next time you get it serviced.

  9. #1409
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    At your weight I'd try 2 POS, 1 neg. The negative bands do a lot for me to manage mid stroke and pedaling forces. Usually I wouldnt suggest making two changes at once, but it sounds like you're a good bit off optimum setup being at 25% sag, blowing through travel and still not great pedaling performance.
    Thanks for your feedback. So, I just rode 2 POS, 1 NEG and then tried 3 POS 0 NEG. Still had too much movement pedaling uphill both ways but 2 POS/1 NEG felt slightly more stable. Wondering if I should try 1 POS and 2 NEG? Will rings in the NEG slow down the movement?

  10. #1410
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler View Post
    Thanks for your feedback. So, I just rode 2 POS, 1 NEG and then tried 3 POS 0 NEG. Still had too much movement pedaling uphill both ways but 2 POS/1 NEG felt slightly more stable. Wondering if I should try 1 POS and 2 NEG? Will rings in the NEG slow down the movement?
    Yeah it should. The way I do it is that I use the positive chamber bands to control the amount, and character of bottom out. I keep sag around what is optimum for my frame (vpp 28-32%). Then I use negative chamber bands to try and control beginning and mid stroke.

    Generally, I try and avoid using the compression settings and the pressure in the bladder chamber to handle bottom out and I try and keep that to controlling damping characteristics only. FWIW, I keep my shock mostly in the medium setting because open is too open on my vpp frame for my tastes, just based on my desired mid stroke support.

    I'd try 1 pos, 2 neg and maybe potentially add 5psi to your bladder pressure after the negative band adjustment if you need. Don't be afraid of running any combo of bands, they have a profound effect. You can also potentially run a different shim stack for more LSC, DVO can help you with that, but i'd do that as a last resort.

  11. #1411
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimedog View Post
    Bands in the negative chamber reduce the effect of the negative air spring so that will help you both out with pedal bob. If you're bottoming out add bands to the positive side for a more progressive air spring.

    Rebound adjustment is just a range of low speed rebound, there is a fixed amount of high speed rebound with the main valve to contend with also. Razorjack, since you're only running 180psi I imagine that you are fairly light? If so then ideally you would want a shim taken out of the stack. Just something to keep in mind for the next time you get it serviced.
    yep, i know that the knob is 'low speed rebound damping', but anyway, i feel i'd like to test faster (closer to my front setting), i'm not so light, as i mentioned, i weight about 80kg with gear.

    is it possible to change shims for a climb switch too ? to increase compression damping for climb position, but not to change damping in open mode ?

  12. #1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorjack View Post
    is it possible to change shims for a climb switch too ? to increase compression damping for climb position, but not to change damping in open mode ?
    It is not. Changing the shim stack on the compression loader may have an effect on the steps between compression settings, but that will be minor at best and could be consider accidental or un-intended.

    It is very strange that you are running with rebound fully open at 80kg. I am 81kg and run about 4-5 clicks of rebound damping with 215psi in the main air can on my hightower.

    What frame is this on? I could see maybe on an incredibly progressive frame (yt jeffsy) that maybe you could need such little pressure and no bands. But even on that frame I can't believe you wouldn't be blowing through your travel quickly with such little air pressure and no air can reducers. Furthermore, with your comments on how rebound seems too fast, I would have expected to hear you had a ton of positive can reducers in. That dynamic and progressive spring rate from a significant amount of positive air can reducers can make high speed rebound feel off as the air spring has a ton of force returning from deep events.

    If these genuinely are your settings then I'd consider changing the rebound shim stack. Keep in mind you will expeience a slight change in compression damping from a different rebound tune.

  13. #1413
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    Did my first oil replacement on the Topaz after 6 months. Used WPL Shockboost 2.5wt, and it's like new again, good stuff. Nice that you can cook with it too

  14. #1414
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    that's from this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14NmsFSEZE
    maybe not the best video (not enough light to see that's it returns slow), returns slower than my legs! (with 0 clicks), in a middle of the film, i set 4 clicks of rebound, you can easily see that it makes it veeery sluggish ....

    frame is NS Bikes Snabb E (navy blue on the pic)
    Name:  NS%u00252BBikes%2BSnabb%2BE1%2B2015_LevRatio.gif
Views: 1799
Size:  31.3 KB

    SAG is set to about ~18mm (about 28%), i don't bottom out too often, when i ride aggressively down, no jumps, i would use 60-61mm of travel (from 63mm).
    when i jump i'd use similar amount (i prefer nice landings )
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BoXJ8MDhz2Q/
    probably i could use some bands in + chamber anyway (didn't have a time to clean everything and experiment)

    but anyway, even if i set 200psi, still i could probably see that there is a lot of rebound damping even with 0 clicks !
    (maybe i weight a bit less, like 77kg with gear)

  15. #1415
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    Yeah it should. The way I do it is that I use the positive chamber bands to control the amount, and character of bottom out. I keep sag around what is optimum for my frame (vpp 28-32%). Then I use negative chamber bands to try and control beginning and mid stroke.

    Generally, I try and avoid using the compression settings and the pressure in the bladder chamber to handle bottom out and I try and keep that to controlling damping characteristics only. FWIW, I keep my shock mostly in the medium setting because open is too open on my vpp frame for my tastes, just based on my desired mid stroke support.

    I'd try 1 pos, 2 neg and maybe potentially add 5psi to your bladder pressure after the negative band adjustment if you need. Don't be afraid of running any combo of bands, they have a profound effect. You can also potentially run a different shim stack for more LSC, DVO can help you with that, but i'd do that as a last resort.
    Thanks for your feedback! I will follow this process today and give it another try. I really want to make this shock work...feels so good going down.

  16. #1416
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorjack View Post
    that's from this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14NmsFSEZE
    maybe not the best video (not enough light to see that's it returns slow), returns slower than my legs! (with 0 clicks), in a middle of the film, i set 4 clicks of rebound, you can easily see that it makes it veeery sluggish ....

    frame is NS Bikes Snabb E (navy blue on the pic)
    Name:  NS%u00252BBikes%2BSnabb%2BE1%2B2015_LevRatio.gif
Views: 1799
Size:  31.3 KB

    SAG is set to about ~18mm (about 28%), i don't bottom out too often, when i ride aggressively down, no jumps, i would use 60-61mm of travel (from 63mm).
    when i jump i'd use similar amount (i prefer nice landings )
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BoXJ8MDhz2Q/
    probably i could use some bands in + chamber anyway (didn't have a time to clean everything and experiment)

    but anyway, even if i set 200psi, still i could probably see that there is a lot of rebound damping even with 0 clicks !
    (maybe i weight a bit less, like 77kg with gear)
    Razor, first off, I'm jealous. That trail looks too fun. I weigh closer to 80-82kg with gear. One if the things I did to speed things up, rather than doing a shim stack adjustment I changed the oil out to Red Line Like Water. This allows me to lower initial pressure and add a positive band or two to help bottom out protection. It also allowed me to add an extra click or 2 to the rebound side. Thinner oil moves through the shims and ports faster. Lower pressure makes for a softer top end and also doesn't wear and tear on your seals as much. I'm riding an '05 Bronson, 2+ & 1- bands in the main can. Can pressure @ 180psi with 174psi in the bladder. Only one minor issue, occasionally the rear feels like it packs or the rebound is still too slow.

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  17. #1417
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    yep. i know how thick/thin oil works however i won't be changing to thinner, as i would like to have stronger compression damping in climb position too
    i bought this damper second hand, maybe it was reshimmed before? anyway, next time i send it for a full service, i'll ask for reshimming (TFTuned)
    i was just curious if it's normal...

    also, maybe this weekend, i'll find some time and put 1 band in + chamber (bottom out prevention), and 1-2 in negative ? for better support (less wallow) in climb mode.
    my suspension is quite supple, no rotation on lower bushing and bearings on upper mount.
    https://i.imgur.com/0eSJMZn.jpg

  18. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorjack View Post
    yep. i know how thick/thin oil works however i won't be changing to thinner, as i would like to have stronger compression damping in climb position too
    i bought this damper second hand, maybe it was reshimmed before? anyway, next time i send it for a full service, i'll ask for reshimming (TFTuned)
    i was just curious if it's normal...

    also, maybe this weekend, i'll find some time and put 1 band in + chamber (bottom out prevention), and 1-2 in negative ? for better support (less wallow) in climb mode.
    my suspension is quite supple, no rotation on lower bushing and bearings on upper mount.
    https://i.imgur.com/0eSJMZn.jpg
    One other thing I did to help movement, I installed a RWC shock bearing kit on the lower bushing end. Indeed negative bands will offer more support on the top end but they can reduce that supple feel over the small stuff too.

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  19. #1419
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    oh, i said my suspension is supple enough ! i don't install bearings at the bottom, because it doesn't move at all. i'll test bands and we'll see

  20. #1420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangtime View Post
    My Topaz has been great so far. Iíve started to notice when in the medium setting the switch will drop into the open setting if the trail gets a little rocky and the bike starts to take on some hits. Has anyone experienced this? Iíve checked the tightness of the switch and the hex nut is tight.
    Mine has recently gone the other way, from kind of floppy to feeling like there's a firm detent in each position.
    Perhaps just due to a change in riding style, as I've been standing and using a higher gear on certain obstacles(realized I was not clearing some things with the geared FS bike as easily as I used to on a SS HT), but suddenly there also seems to be a more noticeable difference in firmness/support between the trail and open modes than before.
    Those things are actually what prompted me to catch up on this thread.
    Not complaining, as they're both positives to me, but it certainly seems strange that they should coincide, or even occur at all, after nearly a year of moderate use(shock has not been serviced yet). I don't expect continued use to cause things to firm up-quite the opposite!

  21. #1421
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    Yeah it should. The way I do it is that I use the positive chamber bands to control the amount, and character of bottom out. I keep sag around what is optimum for my frame (vpp 28-32%). Then I use negative chamber bands to try and control beginning and mid stroke.

    Generally, I try and avoid using the compression settings and the pressure in the bladder chamber to handle bottom out and I try and keep that to controlling damping characteristics only. FWIW, I keep my shock mostly in the medium setting because open is too open on my vpp frame for my tastes, just based on my desired mid stroke support.

    I'd try 1 pos, 2 neg and maybe potentially add 5psi to your bladder pressure after the negative band adjustment if you need. Don't be afraid of running any combo of bands, they have a profound effect. You can also potentially run a different shim stack for more LSC, DVO can help you with that, but i'd do that as a last resort.

    Just a follow up: 1 pos 2 neg and 200psi in the bladder made this shock completely come alive for my Banshee Prime. I can now pedal out of the saddle and the bike doesn't bob up and down anymore. I was worried bands in the negative would make it ride harsh but I didn't find this an issue at all. It's also much more playful now. The biggest change was going from 180 to 200 in the bladder which created much more support throughout the entire range. Thanks for helping me dial this thing in. Feels excellent!

  22. #1422
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    Just purchased a topaz and trying to figure out where to start with spacers for a 2015 Intense spider 275. Do most people run no spacers and add to feel?

  23. #1423
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    Go ahead & add 200 PSI in the bladder.
    Set your sag.
    Set rebound by riding off a curb & dialing it in.
    Go for a ride & add spacers until you no longer bottom out.

  24. #1424
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    email DVO tech, they can give you a starting point based off your bike/weight/etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supah Dave View Post
    email DVO tech, they can give you a starting point based off your bike/weight/etc.
    I emailed them and they asked my current settings and then they could advise. I havent installed it yet so couldnt give them that, will put it on tonight.

  26. #1426
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    Just call them.
    I called before I even bought mine. I got real hooman on the phone in 10 sec. that itself is amazing.
    He gave me starting settings. Said to start with no bands. Than maybe add one if needed. I started with one band thinking it will be fine like my monarch. And I should have listened to him from the get go. Since I ended up removing that band anyways. After some riding I dropped main and bladder pressure by 10 psi. Speed up rebound by one more click. And Iím loving it
    Thatís how close he got it at the first time.

    Im 220-225 lbs ready to ride
    2017 Jeffsy 29
    230 psi, 190 bladder. 4 clicks rebound from fully closed. Sometimes I go to three.
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  27. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by razorjack View Post
    is it possible to change shims for a climb switch too ? to increase compression damping for climb position, but not to change damping in open mode ?

    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    It is not. Changing the shim stack on the compression loader may have an effect on the steps between compression settings, but that will be minor at best and could be consider accidental or un-intended.
    I spoke to Ronnie about this and other things. I asked how to get more of a climbing platform using the switch. He said to put two more shims (6mm ID, 15mm OD, 0.2mm thick) on the compression loader. That would stiffen it up. I asked if it would also increase damping in the Open setting. He said no, the "open" is very open.

    He also gave a few other tips:
    -to see if you have air in your oil, let the air out of the main can, then the reservoir. Remove the reservoir valve core. Slide a 3.5mm hex in (don't jam it in or you can damage the bladder!) and measure how far in it goes. It should be about 35mm. If it is less that could mean there is air in the system.
    -When bleeding the system, put the bladder back before oil. Then with a syringe (Rock Shot bleed kit is what he uses) attached with some more oil, compress the shock very very slowly. More oil will fill the syringe. Let is sit compressed for 2 minutes. Extend, wait a minute. Compress, wait a minute. Extend...wait.
    -To get an even better bleed, replace the bleed screw (important!) pressurize the bladder and let that sit for a few minutes. Then repeat the slow compression/extension process. Takes longer but worth it.

  28. #1428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I spoke to Ronnie about this and other things. I asked how to get more of a climbing platform using the switch. He said to put two more shims (6mm ID, 15mm OD, 0.2mm thick) on the compression loader. That would stiffen it up. I asked if it would also increase damping in the Open setting. He said no, the "open" is very open.

    He also gave a few other tips:
    -to see if you have air in your oil, let the air out of the main can, then the reservoir. Remove the reservoir valve core. Slide a 3.5mm hex in (don't jam it in or you can damage the bladder!) and measure how far in it goes. It should be about 35mm. If it is less that could mean there is air in the system.
    -When bleeding the system, put the bladder back before oil. Then with a syringe (Rock Shot bleed kit is what he uses) attached with some more oil, compress the shock very very slowly. More oil will fill the syringe. Let is sit compressed for 2 minutes. Extend, wait a minute. Compress, wait a minute. Extend...wait.
    -To get an even better bleed, replace the bleed screw (important!) pressurize the bladder and let that sit for a few minutes. Then repeat the slow compression/extension process. Takes longer but worth it.
    I've found that adding in a few quick compressions strokes in the mix will also dislodge tiny air bubbles that might be trapped. Also rotating the shock to various angles helped bubbles rise to the top.

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  29. #1429
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    Hi folks. Here 200 lb weight and a Cube Stereo 160. Itís too linear and bottoming out easily
    What do you recommend on rebound and volume spacers as a starting point?
    Any thoughts about bladder or first tray out with tokens?
    Thanks


    Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

  30. #1430
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    if the travel blows really easy, try 3 tokens in positive chamber.
    plus put 200psi in a bladder later
    or start with 200psi in a bladder (easier to do than tokens),
    but still, if your shock is quite clean, putting tokens is 5-10 mins job.

  31. #1431
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    DVO Topaz

    Quote Originally Posted by razorjack View Post
    if the travel blows really easy, try 3 tokens in positive chamber.
    plus put 200psi in a bladder later
    or start with 200psi in a bladder (easier to do than tokens),
    but still, if your shock is quite clean, putting tokens is 5-10 mins job.
    Ok, thanks mate. But if I want 200 psi in bladder, I have to put 230 psi, is that right?
    I say it because of air leaks on suspensions pump. I have this one

    Last edited by Tabby; 11-02-2018 at 10:51 AM.

  32. #1432
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    ^that shock pump should work fine. do not overpressure the bladder, it is accurate and that pump is accurate. the air that comes out when releasing the shock pump is not the chamber, it is the air line. the bladder is going to stay at the pressure you saw on the dial. and when you reattach it, the bladder fills the air line, making it seem like it lost pressure but it didn't, it only lost pressure while you attached the shock pump. however, after a week or two my topaz bladder does go a bit lower (from 200 to 180 maybe in 6 rides or two weeks of sitting)
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  33. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I spoke to Ronnie about this and other things. I asked how to get more of a climbing platform using the switch. He said to put two more shims (6mm ID, 15mm OD, 0.2mm thick) on the compression loader. That would stiffen it up. I asked if it would also increase damping in the Open setting. He said no, the "open" is very open.

    He also gave a few other tips:
    -to see if you have air in your oil, let the air out of the main can, then the reservoir. Remove the reservoir valve core. Slide a 3.5mm hex in (don't jam it in or you can damage the bladder!) and measure how far in it goes. It should be about 35mm. If it is less that could mean there is air in the system.
    -When bleeding the system, put the bladder back before oil. Then with a syringe (Rock Shot bleed kit is what he uses) attached with some more oil, compress the shock very very slowly. More oil will fill the syringe. Let is sit compressed for 2 minutes. Extend, wait a minute. Compress, wait a minute. Extend...wait.
    -To get an even better bleed, replace the bleed screw (important!) pressurize the bladder and let that sit for a few minutes. Then repeat the slow compression/extension process. Takes longer but worth it.
    I have to admit, this is a side of this I didn't consider. Teh open mode on the topaz is indeed basically fully open. It's essentially bypassing the compression shims almost entirely and it's operating as an open port damper. This is an oversimplification and there is still some compression damping going on, but it's very, very little. This is basically why I don't use the open setting on my particular topaz. I do all of my tuning in medium knowing that's what I'm going to use for everything. This likely won't work on all frames as some frames want very, very light compression, but I still think it's something to keep in mind. If i were a fresh topaz owner I would at some point, try and set the bike up to use the medium compression setting (adjusting your + and - air spring to accommodate) that.

    I digress... I didn't consider that open mode isn't going to be affected much, if at all by compression shim stack changes. That means that the relationship between open and medium can change, but the % change from medium to firm will stay fairly consistent. So yeah, something to consider if you're looking for a more dramatic change from open to medium.

  34. #1434
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    @Minimusprime

    What bike are you riding that makes you like prefer the middle setting as opposed to full open? Also, the trails you ride play a big part in your setup. Someone who rides cross country trails might not need as much suspension as someone taking 3 foot drops.

    With that said, I rarely use all of my 150mm of rear suspension and ride in full open all the time.

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  35. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    That means that the relationship between open and medium can change, but the % change from medium to firm will stay fairly consistent. So yeah, something to consider if you're looking for a more dramatic change from open to medium.
    I was riding steep, fast, chunky trails in SoCal. They usually had a long fire road climb to the top. I would have it closed up and then open down. Open was great, but the closed setting was not that effective on my bike. Occasionally on more XC trails I would use the middle setting.

    Now I'm in eastern NY riding more classic trails. Slower, rockier, roots, no long grinding climbs, shorter and slower downhill sections. Different trails that may benefit from a different tune. The better climbing platform isn't needed here, however it is a VPP bike (Tallboy LTc) which has a bit "wallowy" mid stroke so a bit more damping is a good thing. I like the open setting on particularly rocky and rooty trails. It keeps the rear end from hanging up.

    The other day I rode a few miles on a slow rocky trail and didn't realize it was closed. It wasn't terrible, but I did notice the bike felt harsh and was hanging up a bit. If the extra shims make the trail mode ride like closed does now, that could be perfect (for me) on the pedally trails. Open would still work great for the fast or rough stuff. A stronger platform in closed would be a bonus that I don't need as much anymore.

    I may change it for no other reason than I can and I often let my curiosity get the better of me. Winter is approaching so I will have plenty of nights to open it up and play with tunes.

  36. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    @Minimusprime

    What bike are you riding that makes you like prefer the middle setting as opposed to full open? Also, the trails you ride play a big part in your setup. Someone who rides cross country trails might not need as much suspension as someone taking 3 foot drops.

    With that said, I rarely use all of my 150mm of rear suspension and ride in full open all the time.

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    I'm on a original santa cruz hightower that is partially long shocked. I milled the 7mm travel reducing spacer down by 4.5mm so that there are 2.5mm left to ensure that it's impossible to bottom teh tire out on the seat tube. I have a hightower LT upper link and I've gone back and forth between that and the og hightower upper link to try different things on this bike I have a dialed in setting for each link and it would be hard to decide which setup i like better.

    FWIW, I ride this bike on everything and I ride it extremely hard. I'm 6'2", 180lbs and I would categorize myself as experienced and pretty advanced for an amateur rider. Because of my size and riding style, I'm able to put a lot of leverage into the bike. For example, even though I'm only 180-185lbs geared... I need to run about 215psi in the main can, which is more then other people my weight.

    I live in socal and my hightower with my topaz is paired with a 150mm ACS3 converted pike with a 2.5" minion on the front. This thing sees a lot of time in bike parks, jump lines and steeps and chunk in laguna and the local mountain ranges. There are a few super gnarly trails in laguna, mammoth and northstar where it's so chunky that I'll use the open mode setting. However generally, open mode is far too wallowy and doesn't offer enough support on this particular frame to keep the bike poppy and playful. I sorta have a boost off everything on the trail riding style.

    FWIW, I am not the type of person that believes I should be using all of my front and rear travel on every ride. I believe there is an optimum suspension setup for my weight, riding style and the kinematics of my frame, and the trail dictates how much travel is used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I was riding steep, fast, chunky trails in SoCal. They usually had a long fire road climb to the top. I would have it closed up and then open down. Open was great, but the closed setting was not that effective on my bike. Occasionally on more XC trails I would use the middle setting.

    Now I'm in eastern NY riding more classic trails. Slower, rockier, roots, no long grinding climbs, shorter and slower downhill sections. Different trails that may benefit from a different tune. The better climbing platform isn't needed here, however it is a VPP bike (Tallboy LTc) which has a bit "wallowy" mid stroke so a bit more damping is a good thing. I like the open setting on particularly rocky and rooty trails. It keeps the rear end from hanging up.

    The other day I rode a few miles on a slow rocky trail and didn't realize it was closed. It wasn't terrible, but I did notice the bike felt harsh and was hanging up a bit. If the extra shims make the trail mode ride like closed does now, that could be perfect (for me) on the pedally trails. Open would still work great for the fast or rough stuff. A stronger platform in closed would be a bonus that I don't need as much anymore.

    I may change it for no other reason than I can and I often let my curiosity get the better of me. Winter is approaching so I will have plenty of nights to open it up and play with tunes.
    I live in orange county so I'm likely riding some of the trails you're mentioning.

    Definitely some truth in the trail style dictating settings and setup. I actually find the opposite in many cases on chunky trails but it very likely could be down to frame kinematics. While the VPP setup on my hightower provides a great pedaling platform, using it in open starts to generate some pedal kick back when doing technical climbing as you're going too far into the stroke.

    I have a riding style where I don't smash or monster truck things. I'm generally hucking the bike up and over rocks, roots and technical items shifting my hips and hopping the bike when needed. I do the same thing while descending where I'm hopping over chunk on trails instead of just straight lining it. Because of that, I end up needing compression damping always, otherwise I end up in the wrong part of the VPP suspension curve and that leads to blowing through travel needlessly.

    With the modern VPP setups, it's very easy to go too far trying to tame the feedback you get from small trail chatter. I think this is why you see a lot of people struggling to find a setup that provides the right amount of support, doesn't feel harsh, and doesn't blow through travel. I find, a lot of people on the intermediate to advanced intermediate level chase a demon of using all their travel and end up with some harsh/sketchy bottom out events but not the trail feed back they perceive as general harshness.

    You sorta hear murmurs of this a lot in the comment sections of pro-bike checks. People can't fathom how firm the pro's bikes are, and it's all about the energy they are putting into the bike to work the terrain vs letting the bike manage the terrain. The key is that this all comes down to riding style. If you're expecting to go heals down into a chunky section and holding onto the bars expecting the bike to do the work, you're going to need it to work out all of the terrain for you. If you're going to be very active and look for the alternate lines where you're timing getting light and heavy on the pedals in order to work with the terrain, the suspension needs to provide the right support at the right time.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that my setup on the topaz changed once I added the ACS3 I mentioned above. I sorta felt that my hightower was a bit harsh with the factory pike rc and monarch. I assumed that was 100% down to the monarch shock and bought a topaz to combat that. The feeling of the bike improved greatly with that change... but once I added the ACS3 to the mix, I was able to run more compression damping and a firmer air spring on the topaz and still achieve the small bump compliance I was looking for. It was a big reminder to me that you can have one of the bike with a setup that isn't quite right, and that will send excess energy to the other end of the bike.

    I really discovered this phenomenon when I had my topaz apart for service for a bit over a week. I threw the stock monarch back on the bike and I was shocked how good the small bump compliance was on that shock, mostly because i hated it previously. Had the stock monarch felt as good from the factory as it did when paired with my acs3 pike, I likely wouldn't have wanted to upgrade the shock so fast.

  37. #1437
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    Anyone riding a topaz on a 2015-2016 patrol? Any recommended starting point? I had it on a banshee rune but I feel this frame is going to feel much different. Iím 220 lbs. biggest drop Iíve done is about 4-5 feet with the longest sender of 20 feet. Also like the chunky trails. Any help would be great!


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    How can I know the size of the shock? Itís a second hand one,and not sure if itís 200x51 or 200x57
    Thanks


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  39. #1439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabby View Post
    How can I know the size of the shock? Itís a second hand one,and not sure if itís 200x51 or 200x57
    Thanks


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    Measure the distance between the shaft seal and the o-ring after you compress it.

    Let all of the air out, compress fully which will push Tue o-ring down the shaft. Inflate to fully extend the shock then measure the distance between the shock seal and the o-ring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Measure the distance between the shaft seal and the o-ring after you compress it.

    Let all of the air out, compress fully which will push Tue o-ring down the shaft. Inflate to fully extend the shock then measure the distance between the shock seal and the o-ring.

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    Thanks mate!!


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  41. #1441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    Anyone riding a topaz on a 2015-2016 patrol? Any recommended starting point? I had it on a banshee rune but I feel this frame is going to feel much different. Iím 220 lbs. biggest drop Iíve done is about 4-5 feet with the longest sender of 20 feet. Also like the chunky trails. Any help would be great!


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    Iím on a 16 Scout with a Topaz. I put 2 bands in the positive side and 1 in the negative, set it to 33% sag. Love this setup!

  42. #1442
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Iím on a 16 Scout with a Topaz. I put 2 bands in the positive side and 1 in the negative, set it to 33% sag. Love this setup!
    Thanks! Iíll start there too then


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    Yeah the stock monarch blew through the travel so easily. I wanted it to be more progressive so I threw in those 2 positive bands right off the bat. Huge improvement.

  44. #1444
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_lombardy View Post
    Yeah the stock monarch blew through the travel so easily. I wanted it to be more progressive so I threw in those 2 positive bands right off the bat. Huge improvement.
    Nice. On my rune I was running 2pos 3neg but since transition bikes have a progressive leverage rate at the end Iím hoping I wonít need to compensate as much! Push come the shove the monarch will go to avalanche.


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    Can someone measure the real travel of a 200x57 Topaz? Mine measures 55 mm and should be 57 o a bit more. Shock specs says it's a 200x57,but isn't the case
    Thanks I'm advance

  46. #1446
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Measure the distance between the shaft seal and the o-ring after you compress it.

    Let all of the air out, compress fully which will push Tue o-ring down the shaft. Inflate to fully extend the shock then measure the distance between the shock seal and the o-ring.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    I have done it,and it's strange but measures 55mm,then o-ring,fall down

  47. #1447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabby View Post
    Can someone measure the real travel of a 200x57 Topaz? Mine measures 55 mm and should be 57 o a bit more. Shock specs says it's a 200x57,but isn't the case
    Thanks I'm advance
    Mine is a 200x50 (same as the 200x57 but with a 7mm spacer) and it has an O-ring and washer that hold the spacer in place. Yours likely has just the O-ring or something else that act as a top out bumper. You won't get the full 57 unless you really compress it hard. Not 100% sure of that, but most shocks have some sort of top out protection that won't let you get the full XXmm of travel when measured.

  48. #1448
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    Wrong message

  49. #1449
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    I've found some serious strangeness to the 200x50 vs 200x57 stuff with the topaz as well. with the 7mm spacer in place, if you empty all of hte air out of the shock and bottom it out on you frame, you'll find it will travel more then 50mm and will blow the o-ring off teh bottom of the shaft. I'm not sure if there is a weird hydralic bottom out or air spring bottom out that comes into place that stops it or what.

    On the flip side, with the 7mm travel reducing spacer removed, it doesn't seem to travel all that much more and will again, blow the o-ring off of the shaft at bottom out.

    It is very confusing but I've shaved the spacer down and again, when i bottom the shock out with no air in it, it seems to go further then you would think. In practice however, with the shock air'd up, it seems impossible to utilize that much travel in general usage of the shock.

  50. #1450
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    My topaz would definitely not knock the o-ring off with the spacer installed, I seem to remember a few mm remaining. It did once removed. Have you done any other work to the shock? The air piston bottoms out on the spacer/casting.

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    I have a Stumpjumper with maximum four spacers in the positive and 30% sag. I run 210 psi in the shock and 190 in the bladder, I'd say I'm 170 lbs fully equipped. I still bottom out quite easily. It's not like it's about to explode or anything, but just uses 100% of travel on fairly moderate terrain. I'd say I do no larger drops than 2-3 feet. Is it possible to make it more progressive? What would a spacer in the negative do for me?

  52. #1452
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    How sure are you that you have 30% sag? Are you actually measuring it based on the usable amount of travel (not the length of the shaft)?

    I ran one on a Stumpy, Iím 20 lbs heavier and I ran around 250psi to get a true 30% sag on that bike.

    No offense intended, but Iíd guess your sag is off.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  53. #1453
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    I have measured full travel (ca 45 mm) and divided by 100 and multiplied with 30 (ca 13,5 mm). I guess that's how it is done
    Anyway I'm 150 lbs w/o stuff. I carry a lot of stuff right now, it's winter.

  54. #1454
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    Sounds like you should call dvo for a base setup, they are happy to help. You sound like you are way off for your weight and style but I don't know those bikes.

    I would guess add some air and remove some bladder pressure. Sag is not useful for tuning it's just a reference.

  55. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimedog View Post
    Sag is not useful for tuning it's just a reference.
    Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  56. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.
    You figure out sag to start then add/subtract to tune. I think youíre both right.


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  57. #1457
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-akka View Post
    I have a Stumpjumper with maximum four spacers in the positive and 30% sag. I run 210 psi in the shock and 190 in the bladder, I'd say I'm 170 lbs fully equipped. I still bottom out quite easily. It's not like it's about to explode or anything, but just uses 100% of travel on fairly moderate terrain. I'd say I do no larger drops than 2-3 feet. Is it possible to make it more progressive? What would a spacer in the negative do for me?
    I'm not sure how progressive stumpy is, but these numbers look fine to me. Except, 4 spacers, in the positive?? It should be progressive as hell ... I'm 220 ready to ride, no spacers, BUT I'm on progressive bike(Jeffsy), and do not bottom out almost at all. But I use full travel, I guess I should say I do not bottom out harshly...

    Anyways, call DVO, cool people, You'll get real knowledgeable human on the phone, and they will help you sort it out.
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  58. #1458
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    My Stumpy is very linear. I'll try some more before I call them. Think I'll try less air in bladder and more in shock

  59. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-akka View Post
    My Stumpy is very linear. I'll try some more before I call them. Think I'll try less air in bladder and more in shock
    At your weight, I'd say your last comment is headed in the wrong direction. I only run about 184psi and I weigh more than you. But I'm not riding the same bike either. I'd suggest raising the bladder pressure instead. That way it will slow down the compression across the entire stroke.

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  60. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.
    Spring rate is. Sag is a secondary way to approximate correct spring rate. Adjust by feel to get the right spring rate. Add volume spacers if sag needs tuning.

  61. #1461
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    At your weight, I'd say your last comment is headed in the wrong direction. I only run about 184psi and I weigh more than you. But I'm not riding the same bike either. I'd suggest raising the bladder pressure instead. That way it will slow down the compression across the entire stroke.

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    Thanks! Got it right now!

  62. #1462
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-akka View Post
    Thanks! Got it right now!
    By right, do you mean your shock is performing better now?

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  63. #1463
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    It doesn't bottom out now. Felt good.

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    Hi guys,

    Two related questions about the DVO Topaz:

    1) I have a 230mmx60mm Topaz, I understand that I can remove a nylon spacer on the shock shaft to get 65mm travel. Since this does not change the eye to eye length of the shock, is it just the case that I have an extra 10mm wheel travel on my bike? The static geometry wouldn't change, and sagged would be slightly lower for same %?

    2) The spacer is a white c-clip in the "top" of the air can on the shaft right? When I was removing my air sleeve to play with spacers, the entire air can slid down for some reason so I could see that spacer. I managed to get the sleeve off the body and reassembled the shock and it seems fine, holding air.

    Bike is a YT Jeffsy 27 CF if it matters. I am 215lbs before gear, 225-230ish geared up, shock is at 230psi main, 195psi piggy back, rebound 4 out (probably go 5 since it's 4-8C when I ride now). I had no bands, just put one negative band it to experiment with tomorrow. Have maybe 8 rides on the shock and it blows the RS Deluxe RT3 it replaced out of the water... just trying to tune shock feel with bands now.

  65. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiemario View Post
    I'm not sure how progressive stumpy is, but these numbers look fine to me. Except, 4 spacers, in the positive?? It should be progressive as hell ... I'm 220 ready to ride, no spacers, BUT I'm on progressive bike(Jeffsy), and do not bottom out almost at all. But I use full travel, I guess I should say I do not bottom out harshly...

    Anyways, call DVO, cool people, You'll get real knowledgeable human on the phone, and they will help you sort it out.
    Hi there, mind sharing your total Topaz settings? I'm new to MTBR, tried to search your posts but failed... I'm on a Jeffsy 27 so very similar leverage curve and I am about your size as well.

  66. #1466
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    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Hi guys,

    Two related questions about the DVO Topaz:

    1) I have a 230mmx60mm Topaz, I understand that I can remove a nylon spacer on the shock shaft to get 65mm travel. Since this does not change the eye to eye length of the shock, is it just the case that I have an extra 10mm wheel travel on my bike? The static geometry wouldn't change, and sagged would be slightly lower for same %?

    2) The spacer is a white c-clip in the "top" of the air can on the shaft right? When I was removing my air sleeve to play with spacers, the entire air can slid down for some reason so I could see that spacer. I managed to get the sleeve off the body and reassembled the shock and it seems fine, holding air.

    Bike is a YT Jeffsy 27 CF if it matters. I am 215lbs before gear, 225-230ish geared up, shock is at 230psi main, 195psi piggy back, rebound 4 out (probably go 5 since it's 4-8C when I ride now). I had no bands, just put one negative band it to experiment with tomorrow. Have maybe 8 rides on the shock and it blows the RS Deluxe RT3 it replaced out of the water... just trying to tune shock feel with bands now.
    Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.

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  67. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.
    No worries, although Doug already covered it what I meant is that being at an arbitrary sag gradient is not what is important. You use sag to start to make sure that you're getting close to the correct spring rate and then you tune from there. I theorize that people obsess about their sag percentage at the expense of better tuning. A range of sag works for each bike but each rider will prefer a different spring rate (and thus, sag) which is chosen in conjunction with their suspension gear (damper and spring characteristics require slightly different spring rate strategies.)

  68. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Hi guys,

    Two related questions about the DVO Topaz:

    1) I have a 230mmx60mm Topaz, I understand that I can remove a nylon spacer on the shock shaft to get 65mm travel. Since this does not change the eye to eye length of the shock, is it just the case that I have an extra 10mm wheel travel on my bike? The static geometry wouldn't change, and sagged would be slightly lower for same %?

    2) The spacer is a white c-clip in the "top" of the air can on the shaft right? When I was removing my air sleeve to play with spacers, the entire air can slid down for some reason so I could see that spacer. I managed to get the sleeve off the body and reassembled the shock and it seems fine, holding air.

    Bike is a YT Jeffsy 27 CF if it matters. I am 215lbs before gear, 225-230ish geared up, shock is at 230psi main, 195psi piggy back, rebound 4 out (probably go 5 since it's 4-8C when I ride now). I had no bands, just put one negative band it to experiment with tomorrow. Have maybe 8 rides on the shock and it blows the RS Deluxe RT3 it replaced out of the water... just trying to tune shock feel with bands now.
    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Hi there, mind sharing your total Topaz settings? I'm new to MTBR, tried to search your posts but failed... I'm on a Jeffsy 27 so very similar leverage curve and I am about your size as well.
    1. By adding 5mm to the shock travel you'll add 12.5 mm to the rear wheel. You really have to make sure that no binding occurs, as this can damage the frame. Compress suspension without the air in the shock and check.
    Another thing is, in some situations this can put your bottom bracket 12mm or so lower than it is now. Like landing from drop or jump. And this may lead to striking the ground and damaging something....

    2. My settings are very close to yours:
    - 230Psi in main can(225 psi currently, since it's cold and I wanted to soften sus a little)
    - 190 psi in bladder (lowered to 185 for above reason)
    - no tokens at all
    - 4 clicks of rebound from fully closed. I'm probably gonna open it 1-2 clicks for winter.

    I like it this way. have maybe 4-5 mm travel left while normal riding(including small jumps), little less doing 5 ft drops. I bottom it out sometimes, usually when I do something wrong landing
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  69. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.

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    I did this on my Topaz. However, my bike is designed with such a change in mind.

    The way my bike is designed, it can be either a 135/145 mm trail bike or a 150/165 mm enduro bike depending on shock travel.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  70. #1470
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    sounds ok for Jeffsy27.5
    'normal Jeffsy has 150mm of travel (with 230x60mm)
    but Jeffsy CF PRO Race has more travel - 160mm (and 230x65mm shock)

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiemario View Post
    1. By adding 5mm to the shock travel you'll add 12.5 mm to the rear wheel. You really have to make sure that no binding occurs, as this can damage the frame. Compress suspension without the air in the shock and check.
    Another thing is, in some situations this can put your bottom bracket 12mm or so lower than it is now. Like landing from drop or jump. And this may lead to striking the ground and damaging something....

    2. My settings are very close to yours:
    - 230Psi in main can(225 psi currently, since it's cold and I wanted to soften sus a little)
    - 190 psi in bladder (lowered to 185 for above reason)
    - no tokens at all
    - 4 clicks of rebound from fully closed. I'm probably gonna open it 1-2 clicks for winter.

    I like it this way. have maybe 4-5 mm travel left while normal riding(including small jumps), little less doing 5 ft drops. I bottom it out sometimes, usually when I do something wrong landing
    Thanks for the detailed settings! I tried the bike with 1 negative band and was able to drop 5psi and still have slightly less sag than before. Bike felt a bit more supported and but still soft off the top and good grip. It was colder today than my last few rides so that may have had an impact.

    Great point about BB height at bottom out, had not thought about that. I have definitely clipped my pedals on rocks at bottom out, or even just dragged my heels on the ground in certain situations... I run my Jeffsy in the low setting as well (341mm BB height).

    Quote Originally Posted by razorjack View Post
    sounds ok for Jeffsy27.5
    'normal Jeffsy has 150mm of travel (with 230x60mm)
    but Jeffsy CF PRO Race has more travel - 160mm (and 230x65mm shock)
    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.

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    Yep, the Jeffsy 27 was designed for up to 160mm rear travel, but only the top models come with a 65mm stroke shock to achieve that. I was trying to make sure I had my head around the impact on the bike handling with the extra travel. Thanks!

  72. #1472
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    I didn't realize that 27.5 Pro Race has 160mm travel... That is Capra territory .
    Mine is 29'r with 140/140
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiemario View Post
    I didn't realize that 27.5 Pro Race has 160mm travel... That is Capra territory .
    Mine is 29'r with 140/140
    Yep, definitely blurring the lines! I have been happy with the 150/150 in general at 27.5 but since I sold my downhill bike earlier this summer I am looking to upsize the Jeffsy slightly but not go full 170/180mm like the Capra 27.5. I'll be 160/160 and using offset bushings to get the HTA down to about 65.5 which should suit nicely for the riding around here (coastal BC).

  74. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Yep, definitely blurring the lines! I have been happy with the 150/150 in general at 27.5 but since I sold my downhill bike earlier this summer I am looking to upsize the Jeffsy slightly but not go full 170/180mm like the Capra 27.5. I'll be 160/160 and using offset bushings to get the HTA down to about 65.5 which should suit nicely for the riding around here (coastal BC).
    Rather than using offset bushings which have negative side effects, see if you can use a Works Components angleset headset to change your head angle. It won't do as much damage to the BB height or rear linkage yet will slacken the head angle and raise the seat tube angle some too. A win win.

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  75. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    I'll be 160/160 and using offset bushings to get the HTA down to about 65.5 which should suit nicely for the riding around here (coastal BC).
    Ditto IRBent and use an Angleset. I ride a Tallboy LTc which had a 69 degree HTA. A 1.5 degree angleset made the bike ride much better.

    I have the Can Creek, or should I say Cane Creak? It is noisy despite me being VERY careful installing it. The Works are much easier and are quiet, but you can't adjust the angle +/- 0.5 degrees which is nice with the CC.

  76. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Ditto IRBent and use an Angleset. I ride a Tallboy LTc which had a 69 degree HTA. A 1.5 degree angleset made the bike ride much better.

    I have the Can Creek, or should I say Cane Creak? It is noisy despite me being VERY careful installing it. The Works are much easier and are quiet, but you can't adjust the angle +/- 0.5 degrees which is nice with the CC.
    Note too, if you're a numbers geek and understand trig. A fixed angleset by Works may give you a tad more or less angle than expected. I ride a small Bronson and due to the head tube being shorter than a medium or large frame, a 1į angleset actually came closer to a 1.4į change. I went from 67į down to 65.6į. My Works headset has been silent and easy to maintain as well. Definitely easier to install compared to the CC with its movable cup races and bearings.

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    I don't believe a Jeffsy can use an angleset.

  78. #1478
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    Jeffsy AL models can use an angleset

    Jeffsy CF models can not use an angleset

  79. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwapik View Post
    Jeffsy AL models can use an angleset

    Jeffsy CF models can not use an angleset
    Why is that? Did they design the head tube different between the Al and Carbon frames?

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    Essentially - YES
    I believe this is due to the different headsets:

    CF has IS (Integrated Stack) headset
    AL has ZS (Zero Stack) headset

    IS is held in frame by preloading the bearings through top cap
    ZS is held in frame by friction (it is pressed in),
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

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    that's strange, quite often is opposite - IS (bearings direct in frame) is in alu frames... (as it's easier to damage carbon)

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    Just got a Topaz T3 for my '16 Santa Cruz 5010 V2. I've yet to install it, but I was just wondering if anybody Ė who has the same bike Ė has some "base settings" that would be worth starting off from? I'm 185-ish lbs kitted out riding, and I like pop and playfullness, but also appreciate small bump sensitivity and a good pedal platform and supportive mid-stroke. Otherwise, I guess I gotta read up on this whole thread, and get to testing

  83. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielgrafik View Post
    Just got a Topaz T3 for my '16 Santa Cruz 5010 V2. I've yet to install it, but I was just wondering if anybody Ė who has the same bike Ė has some "base settings" that would be worth starting off from? I'm 185-ish lbs kitted out riding, and I like pop and playfullness, but also appreciate small bump sensitivity and a good pedal platform and supportive mid-stroke. Otherwise, I guess I gotta read up on this whole thread, and get to testing
    Here's a good starting point. 2 bands in the positive and one band on the negative side. Bladder @ 175 and main air can whatever pressure gets @ 30% sag. I'd guess about 185psi in the can, maybe 188psi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    How sure are you that you have 30% sag? Are you actually measuring it based on the usable amount of travel (not the length of the shaft)?

    I ran one on a Stumpy, Iím 20 lbs heavier and I ran around 250psi to get a true 30% sag on that bike.

    No offense intended, but Iíd guess your sag is off.
    Thanks for your help. I got it right in the end. Measured the sag again very meticulously. Might been a mm wrong. Went up to 220. But I think the fault might have been the bladder pressure. It just goes to show how thorough you need to be with all the three to get it exactly right. Now the Stumpy is awsome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Here's a good starting point. 2 bands in the positive and one band on the negative side. Bladder @ 175 and main air can whatever pressure gets @ 30% sag. I'd guess about 185psi in the can, maybe 188psi.

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    Awesome, thanks for the quick reply!

  86. #1486
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    Is bleeding the Topaz as simple as just removing the bleed screw, attaching a bleeding syringe/fitting, putting some oil in the syringe, cycling through travel?

    It doesn't seem like you need to go through the whole damper rebuild process outlined in the service manual to do a bleed, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything important?

  87. #1487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    Is bleeding the Topaz as simple as just removing the bleed screw, attaching a bleeding syringe/fitting, putting some oil in the syringe, cycling through travel?
    Yes, pretty much. You may need to rock the shock to different angles and tap on it lightly with a screwdriver handle or rubber hammer in order to help dislodge trapped bubbles. I found slow and fast strokes to help move bubbles to the top.



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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Note too, if you're a numbers geek and understand trig. A fixed angleset by Works may give you a tad more or less angle than expected. I ride a small Bronson and due to the head tube being shorter than a medium or large frame, a 1į angleset actually came closer to a 1.4į change. I went from 67į down to 65.6į. My Works headset has been silent and easy to maintain as well. Definitely easier to install compared to the CC with its movable cup races and bearings.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    Thatīs why they offer 5 variants to suit different HT lenghts and make it as accurate as possible.

  89. #1489
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Here's a good starting point. 2 bands in the positive and one band on the negative side. Bladder @ 175 and main air can whatever pressure gets @ 30% sag. I'd guess about 185psi in the can, maybe 188psi.
    i had two bands in negative (to calm it down a bit on climbs), what a massive difference, shock lost all of its suppleness! i removed them for winter (more grip) - totally different feeling (in a car park )

    maybe later i'll try with one band in neg, as i want to add one more to pos (now i have 2)
    (ns bikes snabb)

  90. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    Is bleeding the Topaz as simple as just removing the bleed screw, attaching a bleeding syringe/fitting, putting some oil in the syringe, cycling through travel?

    It doesn't seem like you need to go through the whole damper rebuild process outlined in the service manual to do a bleed, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything important?
    Another trick Ronnie told me, Air it up and let it sit a few hours with bleed screw up. Then let the air out of the shock and open the bleed port and do one final top off with oil.
    My Wife's Channel for Women - LadyMTB

  91. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielgrafik View Post
    Just got a Topaz T3 for my '16 Santa Cruz 5010 V2. I've yet to install it, but I was just wondering if anybody Ė who has the same bike Ė has some "base settings" that would be worth starting off from? I'm 185-ish lbs kitted out riding, and I like pop and playfullness, but also appreciate small bump sensitivity and a good pedal platform and supportive mid-stroke. Otherwise, I guess I gotta read up on this whole thread, and get to testing
    Echo the 2x positive and 1x negative. That's what I ran on my 5010. 180psi bladder. Sank too far in travel without the negative.

  92. #1492
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Yes, pretty much. You may need to rock the shock to different angles and tap on it lightly with a screwdriver handle or rubber hammer in order to help dislodge trapped bubbles. I found slow and fast strokes to help move bubbles to the top.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Another trick Ronnie told me, Air it up and let it sit a few hours with bleed screw up. Then let the air out of the shock and open the bleed port and do one final top off with oil.

    Thanks! Where did you get the fitting for the bleed port? I got a brake bleed kit with 5 different fittings, and none of them matched the diameter/thread pitch of the bleed screw.

  93. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    Thanks! Where did you get the fitting for the bleed port? I got a brake bleed kit with 5 different fittings, and none of them matched the diameter/thread pitch of the bleed screw.
    I think the Rockshox Reverb fitting works although I think the first few times I used a Shimano brake fitting. While maybe not exact it was good enough to get the job done.

    Disclaimer: I'm old and forgetful and think my memory is right. I know for sure that I have a universal brake bleed kit and a reverb kit and something in all of that got the job done.

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    Looks like the Topaz 2 is finally available for purchase: https://dvosuspension.com/product/topaz-2/

    Right now it's only available in select sizes with a Giant specific tune. I wonder if DVO plans to eventually offer it in more sizes and phase out the current Topaz.

  95. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix864 View Post
    Looks like the Topaz 2 is finally available for purchase: https://dvosuspension.com/product/topaz-2/

    Right now it's only available in select sizes with a Giant specific tune. I wonder if DVO plans to eventually offer it in more sizes and phase out the current Topaz.
    When I called them while ago, they told me that
    Topaz 2 is not really different internally than Topaz 1, and it will not be available in sizes other than what fits Giant bikes
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

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    That air can sure looks like it has some extra bulge on the negative side, very different than the previous Topaz. Wonder how absolute volumes and volume ratios compare to v1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    I think the Rockshox Reverb fitting works although I think the first few times I used a Shimano brake fitting. While maybe not exact it was good enough to get the job done.

    Disclaimer: I'm old and forgetful and think my memory is right. I know for sure that I have a universal brake bleed kit and a reverb kit and something in all of that got the job done.

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    Yup, you're right. I confirmed with Ronnie at DVO that the reverb fitting works perfectly. Luckily, my buddy had one. Having the correct fitting made for a much more satisfying (and cleaner) bleed.

  98. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    Yup, you're right. I confirmed with Ronnie at DVO that the reverb fitting works perfectly. Luckily, my buddy had one. Having the correct fitting made for a much more satisfying (and cleaner) bleed.
    Thanks for the update. Maybe proof that my 52 year old clutch isn't slipping as bad as I thought. LOL

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    Hi all,

    I have recently been refining my Topaz tune, and have been looking to try increasing compression dampening a bit. Has anyone tried tuning around the middle setting of the 3 position switch? Would it be worth trying to tune the shock around the middle compression setting, or would it just be a waste of time resulting in excessive dampening?

    Thanks.

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    Hi,

    I was having a minor air leak with my Topaz and bought a seal kit from DVO. After replacing all the seals and putting it back together the shock won't hold any pressure. The shock is now puking air out of the top of the can right above the inlet port. I've obviously done something wrong but I can't figure out what. I have 3 O-rings on the inside of the can (top middle and bottom). I've swapped O-rings and even flipped the cover upside down to see if the leak would move and nothing changed. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

    Thanks!

    blizz

  101. #1501
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    My guess: misaligned or damaged oring.
    Or maybe internal can, the one that can be unthreaded is loose.(I assume thatís how topaz is build. Like monarch. I havenít taken my topaz apart yet)
    I would call Dvo. They will help.
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  102. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardfish View Post
    Hi,

    I was having a minor air leak with my Topaz and bought a seal kit from DVO. After replacing all the seals and putting it back together the shock won't hold any pressure. The shock is now puking air out of the top of the can right above the inlet port. I've obviously done something wrong but I can't figure out what. I have 3 O-rings on the inside of the can (top middle and bottom). I've swapped O-rings and even flipped the cover upside down to see if the leak would move and nothing changed. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

    Thanks!

    blizz
    Are you saying thereís a leak from the shrader valve? You can replace those or sometimes it just needs tightening

    Unless you are absolutely sure about the location of the leak, I would dunk it in a bucket of water and find the source.


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    I just put my new topaz on a transition sentinel which has a pretty linear linkage. Iím about 210 lbs. Iím thinking about starting with 2 spacers in pos chamber and 1 neg chamber. Any suggestions?

  104. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by cYbernation View Post
    I just put my new topaz on a transition sentinel which has a pretty linear linkage. Iím about 210 lbs. Iím thinking about starting with 2 spacers in pos chamber and 1 neg chamber. Any suggestions?
    I have it on my patrol, Iím 215 lbs and my settings are

    215 main can
    190 bladder
    0 pos
    1 neg
    Rebound full open

    Hope that helps.


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  105. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by cYbernation View Post
    I just put my new topaz on a transition sentinel which has a pretty linear linkage. Iím about 210 lbs. Iím thinking about starting with 2 spacers in pos chamber and 1 neg chamber. Any suggestions?
    After a couple years with a Topaz on my Scout, this is the setup I landed on. It seems to play well with the TR suspension curve. Maybe add a bit of air to the bladder. Honestly you canít go wrong talking to one of the guys at DVO. Iíd say give them a call and see what they have to say.

  106. #1506
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    Hi guys. I just upgraded my RM Altitude with Topaz and I am dazed and confused... with reading the pressure of a bladder. I suppose the reading I get when I pump the thing up is the actual one. I have no idea if I loose some pressure when I dismount the pump. I am not a native speaker so I don't exactly understand what "initial reading is low" noticed in the manual actually means.

  107. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by goobak View Post
    Hi guys. I just upgraded my RM Altitude with Topaz and I am dazed and confused... with reading the pressure of a bladder. I suppose the reading I get when I pump the thing up is the actual one. I have no idea if I loose some pressure when I dismount the pump. I am not a native speaker so I don't exactly understand what "initial reading is low" noticed in the manual actually means.
    I had a similar question when I first picked up my topaz. In short, you do not loose any pressure when you disconnect your pump (as long as your pump is decent quality and working well).

    The air you hear escaping when disconnecting and pressure loss you see when reconnecting is only the air exiting/entering the shock pump hose, not the shock itself. Due to the high pressure of the bladder and its very small volume, the pressure difference after connecting the hose is much higher than with a normal air can. This is normal and nothing to be worried about. Just fill the bladder to the psi you like, disconnect, and you should be good to go.

  108. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by goobak View Post
    Hi guys. I just upgraded my RM Altitude with Topaz and I am dazed and confused... with reading the pressure of a bladder. I suppose the reading I get when I pump the thing up is the actual one. I have no idea if I loose some pressure when I dismount the pump. I am not a native speaker so I don't exactly understand what "initial reading is low" noticed in the manual actually means.
    Yes, the reading you get when you pump up the bladder with your shock pump should represent the pressure in the bladder. When you unscrew the shock pump, the air you hear coming out is what was in the shock pump, not air coming out of the bladder. Very little air escapes out of the bladder through the schrader valve when disconnecting the pump.

    The next time you thread the shock pump on, the gauge reading will be low, since air from the bladder will escape into the shock pump and pressurize it when the valve opens. The volume of air in the bladder on the topaz is small, so you'll see a large change in what the gauge reads, compared to what you would see when putting air into the air can or into your fork.

    If you want to check to see what pressure your bladder is at after you've ridden the bike, screw the shock pump part way onto the schrader valve, but not far enough to open the valve, then give the shock pump a few pumps to pressurize it to about the range you have your bladder set at, then thread the shock pump the rest of the way on. You'll see the needle on your shock pump gauge jump slightly to match the pressure in the bladder. Not perfect, but close enough to know if you're losing pressure from the bladder.

    So, if you run 200 psi in the bladder, pre-pressurize your shock pump to 200 psi. If the needle drops a significant amount when the valve opens, you know you're losing pressure from the bladder.

    I've notice the bladder pressure will drop over time (I believe this is normal from what others have reported in this thread), so if I haven't ridden the bike in a week or so, I'll top off the bladder before riding.
    No dig no whine

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    This I think is the only minus with this shock. If you don't like checking your pressures every week I would not buy. If you like to check the bike before you ride anyway it is low price for a great shock. I get a slight loss from both bladder and shock. Not much, but I need to top up every other week.

  110. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    Yes, the reading you get when you pump up the bladder with your shock pump should represent the pressure in the bladder.
    Thanks! It of course means I gave the bike a testride with terribly overpressurized bladder (it is -15 degrees here actually so no big harm, just rode around the house ).

    I am rather heavy (+- 240 lbs geared up), I suppose I shall start with something like +2/+1 spacers in the shock if I want to keep the Ride9 setting on my Altitude set on the slackest/most linear?
    Last edited by goobak; 01-22-2019 at 05:03 AM.

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    Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:

    1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.

    2) also I have a 50mm stroke shock, so it has a 7mm spacer in it (as the 50 and 57mm strokes are the same but the 50 has a spacer), some of the plastic had cracked inside and now the spacer doesn't clip onto the shaft anymore. Windwave (UK distributor) has kindly sent me 3 2.5mm ones but they say it's not a spare part and they're talking to DVO about it.

    Does anyone know if a travel spacer from a different brand like Fox or Rockshox will work?

    Thanks

  112. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:

    1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.

    2) also I have a 50mm stroke shock, so it has a 7mm spacer in it (as the 50 and 57mm strokes are the same but the 50 has a spacer), some of the plastic had cracked inside and now the spacer doesn't clip onto the shaft anymore. Windwave (UK distributor) has kindly sent me 3 2.5mm ones but they say it's not a spare part and they're talking to DVO about it.

    Does anyone know if a travel spacer from a different brand like Fox or Rockshox will work?

    Thanks
    As for 1):
    Some clips have two sides, one supposed to face what they are designed to hold, one supposed to face outside. Difference is in edges. Sharp, or rounded. Is i t possible that you installed yours with rounded edge facing bladder and that's why is slipping?
    Just guessing here
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  113. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-akka View Post
    This I think is the only minus with this shock. If you don't like checking your pressures every week I would not buy. If you like to check the bike before you ride anyway it is low price for a great shock. I get a slight loss from both bladder and shock. Not much, but I need to top up every other week.
    I disagree. I do not loose any pressure from mine. If yours does, it either needs lubrication, rebuild or proper technique to connect pump.

    I screw pump onto the valve far enough to seal it, but not to press schrader valve. Than I pressurize it to what I had it set previously. This was both shock, and pump should be in theory at the same pressure. Than screw pump all the way in, which engages valve, and equalizes both sides.
    Pressure reading does not change.
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  114. #1514
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    I've just checked it and it's completely round all the way around, thanks though.

    Looking at the pictures from the manual I don't think the circlips I've ordered will work as the bladder is right up flush with the end of the reservoir I can't understand why air keeps pissing out when it gets to around 70psi.Name:  bladder.jpg
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  115. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiemario View Post
    I disagree. I do not loose any pressure from mine. If yours does, it either needs lubrication, rebuild or proper technique to connect pump.

    I screw pump onto the valve far enough to seal it, but not to press schrader valve. Than I pressurize it to what I had it set previously. This was both shock, and pump should be in theory at the same pressure. Than screw pump all the way in, which engages valve, and equalizes both sides.
    Pressure reading does not change.
    I had this pressure loss issue with mine, even right after a factory service, and I've read this is true for other people. Said this before, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of. It was also definitely a result of riding volume/terrain. On bigger/harder days, it lost more pressure. It's a great shock and I've considered going back to it after trying a coil.

  116. #1516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaparzo View Post
    I had this pressure loss issue with mine, even right after a factory service, and I've read this is true for other people. Said this before, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of. It was also definitely a result of riding volume/terrain. On bigger/harder days, it lost more pressure. It's a great shock and I've considered going back to it after trying a coil.
    Truth. Mine loses a handful of PSI over a 2-4 week period. I have not noticed any reduction in bladder pressure during a ride, just letting the bike sit for a few weeks it will lose 10-20psi out of the bladder which is enough to need to re-check.

  117. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:

    1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.

    2) also I have a 50mm stroke shock, so it has a 7mm spacer in it (as the 50 and 57mm strokes are the same but the 50 has a spacer), some of the plastic had cracked inside and now the spacer doesn't clip onto the shaft anymore. Windwave (UK distributor) has kindly sent me 3 2.5mm ones but they say it's not a spare part and they're talking to DVO about it.

    Does anyone know if a travel spacer from a different brand like Fox or Rockshox will work?

    Thanks
    You must be doing something fundamentally wrong with the bladder. It fits tightly against the housing so if you had installed the clip correctly it would be impossible for it to be pulled out. Step 76 in the service manual has this step with pictures.

  118. #1518
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    Does anyone know how to convert my Topaz 200x51 to a 200x57?

  119. #1519
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    Quote Originally Posted by djindian View Post
    Does anyone know how to convert my Topaz 200x51 to a 200x57?
    Take the outer and inner air. Cans off and remove the white travel reducing spacer. Re-assemble and send to appropriate taste level.

  120. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:

    1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.
    Here's an update in case anyone has the same problem as me; you have to be very careful when pulling the bladder back up to meet the retainer clip, if you pull one side slightly more than the other then it'll pull past the retaining ring and cause an air leak when you pressuise the bladder. My valve puller is only a very small handled one so it made this tricky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve.E View Post
    2) also I have a 50mm stroke shock, so it has a 7mm spacer in it (as the 50 and 57mm strokes are the same but the 50 has a spacer), some of the plastic had cracked inside and now the spacer doesn't clip onto the shaft anymore. Windwave (UK distributor) has kindly sent me 3 2.5mm ones but they say it's not a spare part and they're talking to DVO about it.

    Does anyone know if a travel spacer from a different brand like Fox or Rockshox will work?
    Turns out the fox one (from an rp23) has an id of about 13mm, the topaz is 10 so it wouldn't fit.

  121. #1521
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    Take the outer and inner air. Cans off and remove the white travel reducing spacer. Re-assemble and send to appropriate taste level.
    Does this mean that I can use a 210x57 with added 2mm spacer on my 210x55 frame?

    P.S. Scratch that... it's 216x57, not 210. Oh well, the search continues.

  122. #1522
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    Hi guys.
    I am looking for proper setup on my Rocky Mountain Altitude model 2016 (ride9 set to the slackest). I am rather heavy (210 lbs geared up) and if I keep the sag on desired 30% I end with 280 psi in the main chamber (200 in the bladder). Shock works nice and smoothly eating whatever it gets but I am not able to use full travel. Seems the Rocky is progressive a lot. No big jumps here, 1m drops max. My brain says "put a spacer into negative, leave positive empty", is this ok?
    Thanks

  123. #1523
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    DVO Topaz

    Quote Originally Posted by goobak View Post
    Hi guys.
    I am looking for proper setup on my Rocky Mountain Altitude model 2016 (ride9 set to the slackest). I am rather heavy (210 lbs geared up) and if I keep the sag on desired 30% I end with 280 psi in the main chamber (200 in the bladder). Shock works nice and smoothly eating whatever it gets but I am not able to use full travel. Seems the Rocky is progressive a lot. No big jumps here, 1m drops max. My brain says "put a spacer into negative, leave positive empty", is this ok?
    Thanks
    Iím about your size geared up. Last year I was at Crankworx Whistler and the DVO guys did a quick tune on my Topaz. Iím running similar air PSI and one spacer in the positive chamber. Iím getting almost all of the travel, ring is right the end most rides. Iím not taking huge jumps either. Itís super plush. Bike set up is a Banshee Spitfire w/Fox 36(160mm)


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  124. #1524
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    Whatís the consensus on how much pressure you drop for each positive band added? I went from 2(+) and 1(-),to 3(+) and 2(-) on my Knolly Endorphin to see how it would feel

  125. #1525
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    Quote Originally Posted by goobak View Post
    Hi guys.
    I am looking for proper setup on my Rocky Mountain Altitude model 2016 (ride9 set to the slackest). I am rather heavy (210 lbs geared up) and if I keep the sag on desired 30% I end with 280 psi in the main chamber (200 in the bladder). Shock works nice and smoothly eating whatever it gets but I am not able to use full travel. Seems the Rocky is progressive a lot. No big jumps here, 1m drops max. My brain says "put a spacer into negative, leave positive empty", is this ok?
    Thanks
    I think your brain is on the right track. Try 1 or 2 bands in the negative.

  126. #1526
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    Does anyone run the Topaz on the new Kona Process 153? I just picked one up and curious what a good baseline setting would be in regards to spacers. It seems to have a fairly similar linkage curve to the transition sentinel so I was originally leaning to 2+ and 1- or trying 3+ and 2-

    Iím about 195lbs geared up and ride chunky terrain in AZ. No jumps, just drops ranging from 1-3 feet occasionally.

    Thanks!!

  127. #1527
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    Just put a Topaz in my Banshee Spitfire and set the sag. I just noticed that I cannot feel any difference in low speed compression damping between the three lever settings - really nothing. Is this normal?

  128. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddie View Post
    Just put a Topaz in my Banshee Spitfire and set the sag. I just noticed that I cannot feel any difference in low speed compression damping between the three lever settings - really nothing. Is this normal?
    How much do you weigh?


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  129. #1529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    How much do you weigh?


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    About 188 plus gear.
    Put 190 in the bladder, 2 spacer neg, 1 pos, 195PSI, if that matters.

  130. #1530
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddie View Post
    Just put a Topaz in my Banshee Spitfire and set the sag. I just noticed that I cannot feel any difference in low speed compression damping between the three lever settings - really nothing. Is this normal?
    When riding or just messing around at home? The needle takes a lot of force to move back to the open position so you probably won't achieve that. Open on a Topaz is essentially no LSC so you should notice a difference.

  131. #1531
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimedog View Post
    When riding or just messing around at home? The needle takes a lot of force to move back to the open position so you probably won't achieve that. Open on a Topaz is essentially no LSC so you should notice a difference.
    Just messed around at home. But there really is nothing like LSC damping and all three settings feel identical.

  132. #1532
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    Does anyone know how the Topaz manages temperature fluctuations in the bladder? A 30-40f drop in temp could result in the air pressure going down pretty significantly.

    I was chatting with someone else about this, who suggested nitrogen instead of air from a shock pump for more consistent performance, but it got me thinking about the longevity of the bladder in fluctuating temperatures. If the temp drops the pressure enough, it could cause the bladder to collapse while riding.

    Any thoughts on this?

  133. #1533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Does anyone know how the Topaz manages temperature fluctuations in the bladder? A 30-40f drop in temp could result in the air pressure going down pretty significantly.

    I was chatting with someone else about this, who suggested nitrogen instead of air from a shock pump for more consistent performance, but it got me thinking about the longevity of the bladder in fluctuating temperatures. If the temp drops the pressure enough, it could cause the bladder to collapse while riding.

    Any thoughts on this?
    I agree with the logic but of the temp changes 30-40 degrees during my ride, you can bet your butt my ride came to an abrupt halt. Yes, those temp changes happen where I live especially at this time of year where it's near freezing at night then warms up into the 60s or 70s. But most of us pressurize our suspension in a similar environment as we ride. I don't wait until 3am when it's 30 degrees to set my suspension up for a 3pm ride.

    I like the nitrogen idea. Place the pump in a sealed bag and go for it. I bet after doing so for a while most would revert back to plain air due to the hassle.

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  134. #1534
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    I agree with the logic but of the temp changes 30-40 degrees during my ride, you can bet your butt my ride came to an abrupt halt. Yes, those temp changes happen where I live especially at this time of year where it's near freezing at night then warms up into the 60s or 70s. But most of us pressurize our suspension in a similar environment as we ride. I don't wait until 3am when it's 30 degrees to set my suspension up for a 3pm ride.

    I like the nitrogen idea. Place the pump in a sealed bag and go for it. I bet after doing so for a while most would revert back to plain air due to the hassle.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    I was mainly interested now for similar reasons, our temps right now are wildly fluctuating. It was 70 yesterday, but will be 40 this weekend.

    I guess the easiest solution is to just check the bladder pressure before riding, but it got me thinking about the possibility of using nitrogen instead.

  135. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    I was mainly interested now for similar reasons, our temps right now are wildly fluctuating. It was 70 yesterday, but will be 40 this weekend.
    It sounds like you live not too far away from me if you're in the U.S.

    Temps here tomorrow, mid to upper 70s. Friday, mid to upper 40s.

    It felt like mid 70s out last night until maybe 8pm. Bama weather at its best.



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  136. #1536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Does anyone know how the Topaz manages temperature fluctuations in the bladder? A 30-40f drop in temp could result in the air pressure going down pretty significantly.

    I was chatting with someone else about this, who suggested nitrogen instead of air from a shock pump for more consistent performance, but it got me thinking about the longevity of the bladder in fluctuating temperatures. If the temp drops the pressure enough, it could cause the bladder to collapse while riding.

    Any thoughts on this?
    Well, air is to about 79.2% Nitrogen, that's why thermal expasion coeffiecient of air and nitrogen is about the same.

  137. #1537
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    Its is normal after full service has oil under the shock or not?
    It will stop after first ride?
    thanks

  138. #1538
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    Has anybody tried to contact DVO support service lately? I did not get a response since I wrote them more than a week ago.

  139. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altavoz View Post
    Has anybody tried to contact DVO support service lately? I did not get a response since I wrote them more than a week ago.
    Yesterday. Best is to call them.

  140. #1540
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    Double post
    Last edited by Altavoz; 02-08-2019 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Double post

  141. #1541
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddie View Post
    Yesterday. Best is to call them.
    Thank you, I was hoping to get an answer by email since I live in Spain. I did get response about a month ago, but not anymore.

  142. #1542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altavoz View Post
    Thank you, I was hoping to get an answer by email since I live in Spain. I did get response about a month ago, but not anymore.
    Have you asked your tech question here yet? There used to be and may still be at least one rep for DVO that watches this board. Then too, there's quite a few very knowledgeable guys here who might be able to help.

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  143. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Have you asked your tech question here yet? There used to be and may still be at least one rep for DVO that watches this board. Then too, there's quite a few very knowledgeable guys here who might be able to help.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    No, I didn't. I was trying to figure an initial setup for my bike.

    I have a `08 YT Jeffsy CF Pro and I have bought a DVO Topaz T3 Air Shock. My bike currently uses a Fox Float DPS Performance Elite EVOL (DFLG) and I weight approximately 75kg (165lbs) fully kitted. My current shock settings are 140 PSI, no token, 1 click compresiůn damping and 9 clicks rebound damping. I can`t get it to work as I want and that`s why I bought the Topaz. I feel it a bit harsh (even with 30 or even more SAG) and I never bottom out (I am not that aggressive). ŅCould you send me a base setup to start with? I am a bit concerned about the added complexity of bladder pressure adjustment.

  144. #1544
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    When you wrote that your current shock settings were as they are above where you referring to your topaz settings and if so what is your bladder pressure?

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  145. #1545
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    When you wrote that your current shock settings were as they are above where you referring to your topaz settings and if so what is your bladder pressure?

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    No, these are the settings on my Fox. I don't know where to start with the Topaz. Well, in fact (reading all the posts above) I figured out these, but I don't know if they could be ok:
    * 30% SAG
    * 175 Psi on the bladder
    * 2 rebound clicks
    * No positive and no negative chamber tokens

  146. #1546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altavoz View Post
    No, these are the settings on my Fox. I don't know where to start with the Topaz. Well, in fact (reading all the posts above) I figured out these, but I don't know if they could be ok:
    * 30% SAG
    * 175 Psi on the bladder
    * 2 rebound clicks
    * No positive and no negative chamber tokens
    So the reply below was started a bit ago before your most recent reply.

    Now that I'm no longer driving I look back and it appears your shock settings you mentioned are those of your Fox shock since the Topaz does not have a compression knob.

    Tell us more about the trails your ride, the jumps or drops, the rocks or roots, your riding style, and what kind of ride you want out of the Topaz.

    For your info, I'm an older guy who used to race motocross. A part of me wants to ride hard and jump high, but my old broken up bones want my ride to be soft and plush. Not too many suspension components can give you both so most of us end up finding a happy medium, a balance between plush and capable of big jumps. I ride a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson and have done everything to my Topaz that can be done short of shim stack adjustment. I found that changing out to a lighter weight shock oil allowed the Topaz to move more freely. This allowed me to play with the tuning bands to find possibly the best configuration for my weight, trails and riding style. I seek to recall the Jeffsy has a pretty progressive shock link. If I'm right about that, I think you will need a tuning band on the negative to add support to the shock on the small stuff. Due to the high progressive linkage, you'll need to run a lower air pressure in your main can because the pressure will build up quick when you compress the shock. Finding that happy balance is so easy with the Topaz but we'll need to have a starting point. So knowing where you are now will help. If you've not tried anything yet, maybe I can at least guess at a starting point based on my experience.

    Assuming you want a soft ride since you said you're not aggressive and knowing you weigh 20 pounds less than me.

    After reading your most recent reply I think you're at a decent starting point. Below is what I was going to recommend.

    Set the bladder @ 170psi, the absolute minimum pressure.
    Put 1 tuning band in both the negative and positive chamber.
    Set sag by adding pressure to the main can until you get to 30%. Then adjust your rebound so that it doesn't buck you up much when taking a crawling slow drop of 6" or so. Here in the US, dropping off a sidewalk curb to a road works well.

    While your reply I'm quoting says no bands, I think you'll end up needing at least one on the negative side so you can keep the main can pressure low initially. Low initial pressure will allow you to use more suspension travel if your trails and riding style don't require full travel, an issue you mentioned having with the Fox. No matter which setup option you go with, write everything down when you set it up. Ride it more than once then report back what you like or dislike about it and we can help get you dialed in. Also know, riding the same trail with the same settings 2-3 times can result in up to 3 different opinions on how it felt. Suspension is a finicky thing with many variables. But I think we can help you find that happy balance with your Topaz.

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  147. #1547
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    So the reply below was started a bit ago before your most recent reply.

    Now that I'm no longer driving I look back and it appears your shock settings you mentioned are those of your Fox shock since the Topaz does not have a compression knob.

    Tell us more about the trails your ride, the jumps or drops, the rocks or roots, your riding style, and what kind of ride you want out of the Topaz.

    For your info, I'm an older guy who used to race motocross. A part of me wants to ride hard and jump high, but my old broken up bones want my ride to be soft and plush. Not too many suspension components can give you both so most of us end up finding a happy medium, a balance between plush and capable of big jumps. I ride a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson and have done everything to my Topaz that can be done short of shim stack adjustment. I found that changing out to a lighter weight shock oil allowed the Topaz to move more freely. This allowed me to play with the tuning bands to find possibly the best configuration for my weight, trails and riding style. I seek to recall the Jeffsy has a pretty progressive shock link. If I'm right about that, I think you will need a tuning band on the negative to add support to the shock on the small stuff. Due to the high progressive linkage, you'll need to run a lower air pressure in your main can because the pressure will build up quick when you compress the shock. Finding that happy balance is so easy with the Topaz but we'll need to have a starting point. So knowing where you are now will help. If you've not tried anything yet, maybe I can at least guess at a starting point based on my experience.

    Assuming you want a soft ride since you said you're not aggressive and knowing you weigh 20 pounds less than me.

    After reading your most recent reply I think you're at a decent starting point. Below is what I was going to recommend.

    Set the bladder @ 170psi, the absolute minimum pressure.
    Put 1 tuning band in both the negative and positive chamber.
    Set sag by adding pressure to the main can until you get to 30%. Then adjust your rebound so that it doesn't buck you up much when taking a crawling slow drop of 6" or so. Here in the US, dropping off a sidewalk curb to a road works well.

    While your reply I'm quoting says no bands, I think you'll end up needing at least one on the negative side so you can keep the main can pressure low initially. Low initial pressure will allow you to use more suspension travel if your trails and riding style don't require full travel, an issue you mentioned having with the Fox. No matter which setup option you go with, write everything down when you set it up. Ride it more than once then report back what you like or dislike about it and we can help get you dialed in. Also know, riding the same trail with the same settings 2-3 times can result in up to 3 different opinions on how it felt. Suspension is a finicky thing with many variables. But I think we can help you find that happy balance with your Topaz.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    Thank you very much for your help. I am also a former moto (enduro) rider. I did not get to Motocross because I was afraid of the jumps. Now with my bike is the same, so I don't usually jump, nor big drops. I like going fast downhill (and don't mind loosing a bit of uphill performance) and I prefer more stable and plush than poppy.

  148. #1548
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    So I'm a little confused on the purpose of the negative bands. The DVO Giant tuning page says adding negative bands increases linearity of the air spring:

    http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-con...up-guide-2.pdf

    OTOH, every other resources says it adds more resistance to the start of the stroke, which makes more sense to me.

    Any idea which it is?

  149. #1549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    So I'm a little confused on the purpose of the negative bands. The DVO Giant tuning page says adding negative bands increases linearity of the air spring:

    http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-con...up-guide-2.pdf

    OTOH, every other resources says it adds more resistance to the start of the stroke, which makes more sense to me.

    Any idea which it is?
    I suppose depending on the suspension platform, it could do both. If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. So less pressure in the main can means it won't ramp up as quickly as it begins to compress. The downside to that in the Topaz is there's no individual low and high speed compression or rebound adjustment knobs. Lower initial pressure could allow for packing if you hit small successive bumps really fast like chatter. Low pressure is easy to compress so the first chatter bump is ultra smooth. But that same low pressure may be so low that the shock can't rebound fully in time for maybe the 3rd or 4th chatter bump. Thus packing occurs. Open up the rebound knob until it's rebounding quick enough on the small stuff and now the high speed rebound is fast enough to kick you over the bars on a deep compression rebound. This is why I went with Red Line like water, the thinnest suspension fluid out to my knowledge. Thin oil moves through the ports faster allowing for quick short strokes in compression and rebound. It allowed me to add a click or 3 of low speed rebound (LSR), thus slowing the rebound down on the small stuff while the shim stack and ports take care of the high speed rebound (HSR). This crap is complicated enough to where I may not know what I'm talking about. If you want full on high tech details of how the low and speed adjustments work separately and how the low speed is still tied to the high speed, delve off into Steve's Tech Tuesday videos from Vorsprung. He's been my go to guy for knowledge. With that said, I've had to watch, listen, make notes and repeat just to try to figure out the logic behind this complex stuff. With his videos I've been able to get my Bronson suspension pretty dialed with one tiny thing that still occasionally an issue. My Topaz HSR is still a tad slow on bigger heavier chatter. The only way to fix that is to either add more pressure to the main can in hopes the ramp up will build a bit more pressure and help the shock rebound quicker, or to adjust the high speed rebound shim stack. There are two equal sized rebound shims meaning to modify it, I'd have to buy a shim or 3, or remove one shim and hope my rebound knob could close off enough to tame the massive change in rebound it would cause.

    I hope this helps explain the cross talk DVO and Giant have out.

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  150. #1550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altavoz View Post
    Thank you very much for your help. I am also a former moto (enduro) rider. I did not get to Motocross because I was afraid of the jumps. Now with my bike is the same, so I don't usually jump, nor big drops. I like going fast downhill (and don't mind loosing a bit of uphill performance) and I prefer more stable and plush than poppy.
    Try the setup I recommended or one of your own and take notes on your rides. Provide us feedback on the setup and we'll help decipher your data and personal feelings in hope that we can make you fall in love with that Topaz.

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  151. #1551
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Try the setup I recommended or one of your own and take notes on your rides. Provide us feedback on the setup and we'll help decipher your data and personal feelings in hope that we can make you fall in love with that Topaz.

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    I will do that, thank you very much.

  152. #1552
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboWolf 29er View Post
    I discovered the same exact thing is you the middle O ring had came out of it's notch and was in the middle of the positive side the only thing I could think of is that we need to use more lube so it slides over the O ring easier and stays in its notch. Put all back together an it seems fine.
    I have the same thing after one year and after lube service only!
    now I did full service here in dealer in Greece and Im curious if that happens again in the time!

  153. #1553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoul View Post
    I have the same thing after one year and after lube service only!
    now I did full service here in dealer in Greece and Im curious if that happens again in the time!
    I see this is something that happens on a regular base. Maybe an O-ring with a bit smaller inner diameter could help, so it sits tighter in the notch? Although finding one may be tricky.

  154. #1554
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    I suppose depending on the suspension platform, it could do both. If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. So less pressure in the main can means it won't ramp up as quickly as it begins to compress...
    Thanks for the detailed info. I too have a new Topaz on my Giant Trance frame I'm building up and am trying to get a better understanding of that damper. Also, I'll take this opportunity to jump in and subscribe.


    With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would make the shock/system _more linear_ not more progressive. (I edited/corrected that, post coffee.)

    So, keeping a frame's leverage curve aside, the progressive ramp coming from an air spring seems to really kick no sooner than the last half of the stroke. Negative air springs, if I'm right on this point, primarily work on the initial part of the stroke to lessen the breakaway from seal stiction. In that early part of the travel a negative air spring probably does provide for a more linear feel as well. However, the smaller that negative air spring chamber becomes, by adding space occupying bands, the faster the negative support of that negative air spring will fall off through the stroke - and that will lead to a more progressive air spring.

    I believe, and I _think_ I'm correct, that the larger the negative air spring volume, the less progressive the shock will be. That assumes the relative air pressure of two different negative sized air springs is equal at the start of the stroke. Also, while negative air springs see to level out the spring curve early on, in general, they require more air in the positive side. And that may ultimately lead to more ramp up at the very end of the stroke.


    Anyway, that's the way I _think_ it works, but those ideas are very open to discussion or dispute.
    Last edited by Miker J; 02-09-2019 at 12:43 PM.

  155. #1555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would add to the "progressiveness" of the shock/system.
    Maybe you misread or misunderstood what I wrote? You quoted me as saying,

    "If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. "

    I can't seem to find where I mentioned that adding a tuning band to the negative side would make your shock more progressive. However I did make right the opposite statement.
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson

  156. #1556
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    Maybe you misread or misunderstood what I wrote? You quoted me as saying,

    "If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. "

    I can't seem to find where I mentioned that adding a tuning band to the negative side would make your shock more progressive. However I did make right the opposite statement.

    Wow, yeah, I hadn't had my coffee yet. So, bear with me while I make one small adjustment.

    The body of my post remains the same, but my initial statement _was_ backwards. It should have said....

    With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would make the shock/system _more linear_ not more progressive.

    I will edit that line in the original post.

    Again, not saying I'm right.

  157. #1557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would make the shock/system _more linear_ not more progressive.

    I will edit that line in the original post.

    Again, not saying I'm right.
    It's all good. As I pointed out in my original post and as you apparently know, this stuff is pretty complicated. All of my ideas and opinions come from all of my years of riding MX bikes and of late, mountain bikes, coupled with things like Steve at Vorsprung teaches in his videos. Often I struggle with trying to grasp the concepts he and others teach. I'm no expert, just an old dummy equipped with some experience, a Shockwiz, and the desire to try to understand how this stuff works.
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson

  158. #1558
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    Anyone using the Topaz T3Air with the new 2019 Bronson? if so, how do you like it on that bike?
    Im planing to replace the suspension as soon as my new Bronson comes, and the more im reading about it, im thinking to go with the Topaz instead of the Fox DPX2.

    Any thoughts, as well as some basic setting to start with will be welcome.

    PS, im 60-62kg fully loaded with protection and backpack if its helping...

  159. #1559
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    ok now understand riot frame Shock Specs Ė 200mm x 57mm, (22mmX8mm and 36mmX8mm hardware)
    I have the cards from the box I installed!
    and dvo topaz I installed has 35.2x8 bushings rear and front 22x8

    In the site the 36x8 bushings doesnt exist eemmm ok I thing that 0.8mm is the problem in my situation and I have to find spacers for sure!

  160. #1560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    So I'm a little confused on the purpose of the negative bands. The DVO Giant tuning page says adding negative bands increases linearity of the air spring:

    http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-con...up-guide-2.pdf

    OTOH, every other resources says it adds more resistance to the start of the stroke, which makes more sense to me.

    Any idea which it is?
    I'm confused too.

    I thought the purpose of the larger negative air chamber was to offset a stiffer positive spring rate, allowing the early stroke to remain sensitive and supple, while the mid and late stroke are able to soak up more force, due to the higher pressure/spring rate.

    I'm having trouble trying to picture it from Giant/DVO's PoV. Only way I can interpret it is that, to them, linear = easier to use full travel, rather than being coil-like. If you're reducing the negative air volume, the negative spring's effect drops off quicker/sooner, since it runs out of air and starts to turn into a vacuum. Can't think of it any other way than it making the spring curve more "hammock-like", reducing mid-stroke support and making it so you hit sag with less pressure since the early part of the spring is stiffer. It's like going back to an EVOL, from a Vorsprung Corset.

    DVO Topaz-11379964_599165470186962_1129466622_n.jpg
    - note the slope of the lines. Flat = plush. Steep = spiky. Fox opts for a spiky feel off the top, in exchange for a higher ride height and plush stroke at sag.

    If you tune according to ability to use full travel, rather than by sag, the more coil-like Corset will have to run a lot more sag than EVOL, having a much more supple early stroke. If you tuned both according to an arbitrary sag % (30%) for your body weight, the corset will take much more force to bottom out. This suggests that coil-like springs are harder to bottom out *if tuning by sag*. This is presuming that Corset is like having no volume spacers in the Topaz's negative chamber. I suppose if you want to ride higher in your travel (20-25% sag), yet want to use full travel, and you are a less fast/skilled rider, then pop those spacers into the negative side. These types probably like that plush mid stroke you get with a hammock-curve anyways, as opposed to the fast plowing riders that need firm mid-stroke support (coil, or larger negative)... probably a marketing strategy to cash in on linear being more universally desirable.

    Here's an air spring curve difference from Cane Creek and their LinEair upgrade:

    DVO Topaz-cane-creek-dbair-il-shock-air-1-600x317.jpg
    - end stroke has the same slope, but the old spring has a flat sloped section by sag that takes little total force to go through. This can mean plushness, pedal bob, or wallow depending on how you look at it, but the result is that the shock's easier to bottom out and is spiky off the top. LinEair is just more consistent, with less spike, and less wasted travel (wallow/plushness and bob), trading perceived comfort/squishiness for efficiency and performance.

    DVO is allowing you to choose Corset, LinEair (which prob sits between corset and evol), Evol, and classic spring curves, on top of being sensitive (low friction), and user serviceable. Wish I got one instead of a CC DBair CS. xD

  161. #1561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksoul View Post
    ok now understand riot frame Shock Specs Ė 200mm x 57mm, (22mmX8mm and 36mmX8mm hardware)
    I have the cards from the box I installed!
    and dvo topaz I installed has 35.2x8 bushings rear and front 22x8

    In the site the 36x8 bushings doesnt exist eemmm ok I thing that 0.8mm is the problem in my situation and I have to find spacers for sure!
    It's certainly possible, though I have been using the 35.2mm hardware with no issues on the lower mount. It almost sounds like DVO's hardware might run on the narrower side, which might not jive well with some Riots? Universal Cycles actually has some 35.99mm hardware, if you can get it in Greece it might be a good option:

    https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=76427

  162. #1562
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    Removed. Contacted DVO and they were very helpful

  163. #1563
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    I'm confused too.

    I thought the purpose of the larger negative air chamber was to offset a stiffer positive spring rate, allowing the early stroke to remain sensitive and supple, while the mid and late stroke are able to soak up more force, due to the higher pressure/spring rate.

    I'm having trouble trying to picture it from Giant/DVO's PoV. Only way I can interpret it is that, to them, linear = easier to use full travel, rather than being coil-like. If you're reducing the negative air volume, the negative spring's effect drops off quicker/sooner, since it runs out of air and starts to turn into a vacuum. Can't think of it any other way than it making the spring curve more "hammock-like", reducing mid-stroke support and making it so you hit sag with less pressure since the early part of the spring is stiffer. It's like going back to an EVOL, from a Vorsprung Corset.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    - note the slope of the lines. Flat = plush. Steep = spiky. Fox opts for a spiky feel off the top, in exchange for a higher ride height and plush stroke at sag.

    If you tune according to ability to use full travel, rather than by sag, the more coil-like Corset will have to run a lot more sag than EVOL, having a much more supple early stroke. If you tuned both according to an arbitrary sag % (30%) for your body weight, the corset will take much more force to bottom out. This suggests that coil-like springs are harder to bottom out *if tuning by sag*. This is presuming that Corset is like having no volume spacers in the Topaz's negative chamber. I suppose if you want to ride higher in your travel (20-25% sag), yet want to use full travel, and you are a less fast/skilled rider, then pop those spacers into the negative side. These types probably like that plush mid stroke you get with a hammock-curve anyways, as opposed to the fast plowing riders that need firm mid-stroke support (coil, or larger negative)... probably a marketing strategy to cash in on linear being more universally desirable.

    Here's an air spring curve difference from Cane Creek and their LinEair upgrade:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Cane-Creek-DBair-IL-shock-air-1-600x317.jpg 
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    - end stroke has the same slope, but the old spring has a flat sloped section by sag that takes little total force to go through. This can mean plushness, pedal bob, or wallow depending on how you look at it, but the result is that the shock's easier to bottom out and is spiky off the top. LinEair is just more consistent, with less spike, and less wasted travel (wallow/plushness and bob), trading perceived comfort/squishiness for efficiency and performance.

    DVO is allowing you to choose Corset, LinEair (which prob sits between corset and evol), Evol, and classic spring curves, on top of being sensitive (low friction), and user serviceable. Wish I got one instead of a CC DBair CS. xD
    I reckon you've got it about right.
    An early DVO explanation for the benefit of reducing the size of the negative chamber was for very progressive leverage frames, where the reduced neg chamber allowed you to reduce positive pressure for the same sag and utilise more of the travel on big hits.

    I've had a Topaz since they first came out and have been tinkering with the spring curve heaps. It's one of the strengths of the shock, as you've mentioned. I'm trying to (as many are) balance suppleness, mid stroke support and bottom out. The issue is I'm doing bigger drops these days (~2 metres with flatish transitions) and I have an HD3 which doesn't have enough progression for the riding I'm doing. So I've ended up with the max spacers in the positive (6) for bottom out, none in the negative, for initial suppleness, with lots of positive main air pressure to give mid and end stroke support. Currently playing around with different damper oils, rather than reshimming, to ensure it doesn't blow through the travel too quickly or alternatively start riding harshly on high speed impacts. I like tinkering, so all is good.

  164. #1564
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    Anyone else finding the Topaz HSR to be a bit overdamped and have any suggested changes?

  165. #1565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Anyone else finding the Topaz HSR to be a bit overdamped and have any suggested changes?
    There's only two possible solutions, shim stack adjustment or thinner oil. Oil is an easy thing to change. But there's only two identical shims on the rebound and taking one out, as was suggested to me by DVO, would theoretically cut damping in half. I opted to change the oil to Red Line Like Water and it helped a lot. I occasionally still get a bit of packing on heavy back to back bumps, roots and rocks though.

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  166. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    There's only two possible solutions, shim stack adjustment or thinner oil. Oil is an easy thing to change. But there's only two identical shims on the rebound and taking one out, as was suggested to me by DVO, would theoretically cut damping in half. I opted to change the oil to Red Line Like Water and it helped a lot. I occasionally still get a bit of packing on heavy back to back bumps, roots and rocks though.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    What bike/rider weight?

    I don't think I noticed how overdamped the rebound was until I swapped back from my Coil IL, it seems to pack up a fair bit more and lack the responsiveness that I had that set up with.

    What did the Red Line do to your compression damping?

  167. #1567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    What bike/rider weight?

    I don't think I noticed how overdamped the rebound was until I swapped back from my Coil IL, it seems to pack up a fair bit more and lack the responsiveness that I had that set up with.

    What did the Red Line do to your compression damping?
    When I was riding my ready to ride weight was about 180lbs with backpack on. I'm riding a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson, small frame. As for compression, if memory serves me correctly, it allowed me to make the initial travel more plush and active/reactive. But since the fluid moved easier through the ports I had to add a shim in the positive side to keep from moving through the travel and bottoming out. While that might not be everybody's preferred feel, I was looking for a soft cushy ride and a quick ramp up.

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  168. #1568
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    You could also modify your midvalve to allow more oil to pass through quicker.


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  169. #1569
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    All great info, thanks folks!

  170. #1570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    What bike/rider weight?

    I don't think I noticed how overdamped the rebound was until I swapped back from my Coil IL, it seems to pack up a fair bit more and lack the responsiveness that I had that set up with.
    I know there are plenty of other variables but how do you like the Coil IL compared to the topaz? Love my topaz but been debating adding a Coil IL to the mix.

  171. #1571
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    My HSR was also over dampened. I made too many changes at one time buy going to "like water" and pulling a shim. When I did another change to like water and put the shim back in I was more in the middle of the adjustment.

    I haven't had my Topaz on in a while as I'v either been on my hard tail or using he Jade coil on my FS bike.
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  172. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    My HSR was also over dampened. I made too many changes at one time buy going to "like water" and pulling a shim. When I did another change to like water and put the shim back in I was more in the middle of the adjustment.

    I haven't had my Topaz on in a while as I'v either been on my hard tail or using he Jade coil on my FS bike.
    So, in your opinion is like water and both HSR shims in a better option that a heavier oil and a single shim?

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  173. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    So, in your opinion is like water and both HSR shims in a better option that a heavier oil and a single shim?

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
    For me yes. I wanted to be in the middle of the external adjustment.

    I went back to the stock stack and like water. I felt it as a smaller step than shim stack mods. I was trying to take baby steps toward what I wanted and the lighter oil with the stock stack gave me that. Now if I needed more PSI in the spring I may feel the need to go back to the 2.5wt stock oil.

    I have gained some weight (wings and nachos) over winter so the shock may need some more tuning when I get back on it this summer.

    But TBH I'm so happy with the Jade coil I may not go back to air on my current ride.
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  174. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrible View Post
    For me yes. I wanted to be in the middle of the external adjustment.

    I went back to the stock stack and like water. I felt it as a smaller step than shim stack mods. I was trying to take baby steps toward what I wanted and the lighter oil with the stock stack gave me that. Now if I needed more PSI in the spring I may feel the need to go back to the 2.5wt stock oil.

    I have gained some weight (wings and nachos) over winter so the shock may need some more tuning when I get back on it this summer.

    But TBH I'm so happy with the Jade coil I may not go back to air on my current ride.
    What are you riding and how much do you weigh? I've lost weight, 15+ pounds and haven't ridden much since last summer. The last month or so I've been bouncing around 160 pounds, riding a 2015 Bronson. I'm in my 50's and used to ride MX so a part of me loves to ride ride hard and fast, but my old bones prefer a smooth ride. My local trail system isn't full of big jumps or drops either, so I can get away with a lighter tune.

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  175. #1575
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    Thanks for the info, again!

    Is there any particular reason you couldn't use a thinner shim in place of removing one altogether?

    Quote Originally Posted by gfourth View Post
    I know there are plenty of other variables but how do you like the Coil IL compared to the topaz? Love my topaz but been debating adding a Coil IL to the mix.
    I like it a lot and am trying to decide which one I want to keep on my bike. To add to the Cane Creek, they are local to me.

    I'd say they are about as smooth as each other, but the CC obviously has more adjustments available and I feel like it's more responsive. The HSR and HSC on the Topaz is a bit overdamped IMO and I'm a heavier rider at 220lbs geared up, so I can imagine lighter riders have more issues than I do even.

    The time it's the most noticeable for me is when I really press into the bike and try to unweight, the CC seems to respond a lot quicker and press into me, whereas the Topaz just feels kindof dead.

    I may try the Air IL and see how that pans out.

  176. #1576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adodero View Post
    Is there any particular reason you couldn't use a thinner shim in place of removing one altogether?
    I may do this. I will try Like Water first. I bought a bunch of shims so I could experiment. My Topaz is in pieces waiting for a rebuild. I will go to Like Water and an extra shim on the compression stack. I want a wider range on the climb/open switch and this will give me that. I doubt I'll need to go with a thinner shim. Ronnie never suggested that in the conversations I've had about making my tune less aggressive.
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  177. #1577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I may do this. I will try Like Water first. I bought a bunch of shims so I could experiment. My Topaz is in pieces waiting for a rebuild. I will go to Like Water and an extra shim on the compression stack. I want a wider range on the climb/open switch and this will give me that. I doubt I'll need to go with a thinner shim. Ronnie never suggested that in the conversations I've had about making my tune less aggressive.
    My memory sucks but I think there's simply not a thinner shim available for the HS rebound stack. I want to say it's 16mm in O.D. and has a 10mm I.D. That only leaves 3mm of metal around the perimeter of hole.

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  178. #1578
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    How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?

  179. #1579
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddie View Post
    How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?
    Most people say that there's not much difference between the three.

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  180. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddie View Post
    How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?
    There's a huge difference between my settings (second Topaz)... clearly a firmness felt, although I've heard other's haven't felt much.

    The climb setting on current bike/shock definitely holds the bike higher in travel. I'll be at the top of a climb parked and sitting on a dropped saddle then flip the switch to open and feel the shock relax into deeper sag.

  181. #1581
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    Everyone seems to have different results (especially considering your frame kinematics). My experience is that I call it the "mental switch". I do feel it makes a difference, albeit subtle. I interpret it as it still sinks to your sag position and firms up from there for medium/firm. I like that it sags and retains the intended geo of the bike... That being said my bike has the perfect amount of anti-squat and pedals great in any of the three modes.

  182. #1582
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    There's a huge difference between my settings (second Topaz)... clearly a firmness felt, although I've heard other's haven't felt much.

    The climb setting on current bike/shock definitely holds the bike higher in travel. I'll be at the top of a climb parked and sitting on a dropped saddle then flip the switch to open and feel the shock relax into deeper sag.
    With my Topaz I have exactly this effect with the firm setting, but absolutely no difference between open and medium. So basically I don't even know wether it runs in open or medium mode.

  183. #1583
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    What are you riding and how much do you weigh? I've lost weight, 15+ pounds and haven't ridden much since last summer. The last month or so I've been bouncing around 160 pounds, riding a 2015 Bronson. I'm in my 50's and used to ride MX so a part of me loves to ride ride hard and fast, but my old bones prefer a smooth ride. My local trail system isn't full of big jumps or drops either, so I can get away with a lighter tune.

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    My topaz and jade are both swapped around on my '17 Niner rip RDO. I had the topaz on my wfo and really liked it and when I picked up my Rip I was happy that both bikes used the same shock size. After going to a fox SLS spring my jade is really a no-compromise coil shock so I keep the topaz in it's nice box for tinkering days.

    I'm probably 190# right now geared up.
    "I'm the fastest of the slow guys"

  184. #1584
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    Quote Originally Posted by yo_eddie View Post
    How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?
    On my Rocky Mountain Altitude 2016 the positions are very noticeable.

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    Thanks to all for your replies

  186. #1586
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    Any advice for tuning the topaz to be more "poppy"? would that be mid stroke support?

    I'm 145 pounds, lighter rider on a simple single pivot 140mm rear travel bike that I would assume is more linear. Topaz T3 210x55 with no volume spacers- 150-155psi for 30% sag, rebound completely open, 170psi in bladder. I really like the small bump sensitivity, traction and linear feel. I could possibly be utilizing full travel a little more often. It's almost too 'coil-like'; I push into it for jumps, pop-offs and get nothing back. I'd like to preserve the small bump, the linear feel, but have a little more pop. I was thinking of either:

    - slightly upping the pressure in the air bladder to 175-180
    - trying a volume spacer in the neg chamber
    - maybe I'm just too light and I need re-shim? is this the 'over-damped' feel that some people have talked about?

    Thanks!

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    Really stupid question, but I haven't been able to yet find an answer. Is "full open" all the way to positive or negative?

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    I used to get confused with this all the time. On a fork/shock you'll see "- Rebound +". Confusing because it's short for Rebound Damping. Plus (clockwise, tightened all the way down) is fully damped = slowest rebound. Minus (counter clockwise, opened all the way up) has no damping and the fastest rebound.

    I like how Rockshox uses a bunny for "-", and a turtle for "+"

  189. #1589
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfourth View Post
    Any advice for tuning the topaz to be more "poppy"? would that be mid stroke support?

    I'm 145 pounds, lighter rider on a simple single pivot 140mm rear travel bike that I would assume is more linear. Topaz T3 210x55 with no volume spacers- 150-155psi for 30% sag, rebound completely open, 170psi in bladder. I really like the small bump sensitivity, traction and linear feel. I could possibly be utilizing full travel a little more often. It's almost too 'coil-like'; I push into it for jumps, pop-offs and get nothing back. I'd like to preserve the small bump, the linear feel, but have a little more pop. I was thinking of either:

    - slightly upping the pressure in the air bladder to 175-180
    - trying a volume spacer in the neg chamber
    - maybe I'm just too light and I need re-shim? is this the 'over-damped' feel that some people have talked about?

    Thanks!
    To get more pop you will indeed need more pressure or less restriction. To get leas restriction either a shim mod or a lighter weight oil will be needed. Your current plan of upping the pressure and adding a negative tuning band will probably cause two things. The extra pressure and the negative band will both lower your sag to maybe only 20%. The extra pressure will keep you from using full travel if you're not already bottoming out. Typically a negative band adds initial support and allows you to lower your main can pressure.

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  190. #1590
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    Quote Originally Posted by n1cholasj View Post
    Really stupid question, but I haven't been able to yet find an answer. Is "full open" all the way to positive or negative?
    Try to imagine the rebound knob like a faucet. The more you turn in counterclockwise the more flow you get. More flow allows the fluid to rush through the port faster thus rebound is faster. Clockwise closes the valve and port, slowing the flow or rebound down.

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  191. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfourth View Post
    Any advice for tuning the topaz to be more "poppy"? would that be mid stroke support?

    I'm 145 pounds, lighter rider on a simple single pivot 140mm rear travel bike that I would assume is more linear. Topaz T3 210x55 with no volume spacers- 150-155psi for 30% sag, rebound completely open, 170psi in bladder. I really like the small bump sensitivity, traction and linear feel. I could possibly be utilizing full travel a little more often. It's almost too 'coil-like'; I push into it for jumps, pop-offs and get nothing back. I'd like to preserve the small bump, the linear feel, but have a little more pop. I was thinking of either:

    - slightly upping the pressure in the air bladder to 175-180
    - trying a volume spacer in the neg chamber
    - maybe I'm just too light and I need re-shim? is this the 'over-damped' feel that some people have talked about?

    Thanks!
    Iíd start by adjusting what you can, rebound. Sometimes too much rebound will make things feel ďcomposedĒ as oppose to ďpoppyĒ.

    You could also up the bladder pressure which will affect both compression and rebound.


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    I have a few rides under my belt now with my topaz. The bike is a transition sentinel.i started with 2 bands in the POS and 1 in the NEG. it felt a bit harsh and dead so I switched to one in the positive. I have about 180 psi in the bladder.
    Iím about 215lbs.
    With the one band it feels better but still a bit harsh and overdamped.
    Any advice?

  193. #1593
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    Quote Originally Posted by cYbernation View Post
    I have a few rides under my belt now with my topaz. The bike is a transition sentinel.i started with 2 bands in the POS and 1 in the NEG. it felt a bit harsh and dead so I switched to one in the positive. I have about 180 psi in the bladder.
    Iím about 215lbs.
    With the one band it feels better but still a bit harsh and overdamped.
    Any advice?
    Whatís your bladder pressure at?


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  194. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junersun View Post
    Whatís your bladder pressure at?


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    That was my first question when I saw his post. Then I read it again. He plainly stated his bladder pressure is 180psi. But he never said what his main can pressure was. One of the two is most likely the issue unless it's linkage or bearing related and simply can't move freely.

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  195. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by cYbernation View Post
    I have a few rides under my belt now with my topaz. The bike is a transition sentinel.i started with 2 bands in the POS and 1 in the NEG. it felt a bit harsh and dead so I switched to one in the positive. I have about 180 psi in the bladder.
    Iím about 215lbs.
    With the one band it feels better but still a bit harsh and overdamped.
    Any advice?
    Iíd loose some main can pressure, that might help with harshness. . And add some to bladder, that should make it more playful. Not sure about sentinel progressiveness though. Did you still leave 1 in negative? That will help with initial plushness.
    Maybe try around 215 main, and 195 bladder.

    I recently went from 230 to 225 in main, and 190 to 195 in bladder. (Jeffsy 29 and 220 lbs Pilot) I have no bands at all. Not bottoming out.
    it was feeling bit harsh on fast bumps but wallowy when pedaling. Those small adjustments made it a lot better

    im still experimenting and learning though.
    More you beef it up, more it will handle like a cow....:skep:

  196. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiemario View Post
    Iíd loose some main can pressure, that might help with harshness. . And add some to bladder, that should make it more playful. Not sure about sentinel progressiveness though. Did you still leave 1 in negative? That will help with initial plushness.
    Maybe try around 215 main, and 195 bladder.

    I recently went from 230 to 225 in main, and 190 to 195 in bladder. (Jeffsy 29 and 220 lbs Pilot) I have no bands at all. Not bottoming out.
    it was feeling bit harsh on fast bumps but wallowy when pedaling. Those small adjustments made it a lot better

    im still experimenting and learning though.
    Good catch. Iím a little puzzled about over damped comment though. Iím on a patrol and I had to get it reshimmed to get where I wanted (I weigh 220 lbs).

    Now Iím running no bands though. 200 bladder and 185 ish main chamber....

    To each their own. I like scoobies advise.


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  197. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRBent View Post
    That was my first question when I saw his post. Then I read it again. He plainly stated his bladder pressure is 180psi. But he never said what his main can pressure was. One of the two is most likely the issue unless it's linkage or bearing related and simply can't move freely.

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    Sorry, itís 220 in the main.

  198. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobiemario View Post
    Iíd loose some main can pressure, that might help with harshness. . And add some to bladder, that should make it more playful. Not sure about sentinel progressiveness though. Did you still leave 1 in negative? That will help with initial plushness.
    Maybe try around 215 main, and 195 bladder.

    I recently went from 230 to 225 in main, and 190 to 195 in bladder. (Jeffsy 29 and 220 lbs Pilot) I have no bands at all. Not bottoming out.
    it was feeling bit harsh on fast bumps but wallowy when pedaling. Those small adjustments made it a lot better

    im still experimenting and learning though.
    I removed the band in the negative chamber

  199. #1599
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    There's a huge difference between my settings (second Topaz)... clearly a firmness felt, although I've heard other's haven't felt much.

    The climb setting on current bike/shock definitely holds the bike higher in travel. I'll be at the top of a climb parked and sitting on a dropped saddle then flip the switch to open and feel the shock relax into deeper sag.
    Isn't the 3-way switch on the Topaz just an LSC adjuster? If so, sag shouldn't be impacted by the switch/LSC, it's just damping for when the shock is being compressed (so in motion), once you are at an equilibrium (sag) it's purely just the spring/air pressure that matters?

  200. #1600
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    Ok, just got my DVO Topaz, and I think I may have screwed it up already. I went to install some spacers, I let all the air out, and for some reason thought you needed to twist the air can off to add them, instead of just sliding it off like you are supposed to. So of course I actually opened the main internals vs just the air spacer part. So now it's fully extended, it's kinda hard to compress, even with no air. Did I just majorly screw it up before I even got to ride it?

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