Bought An Old Manitou X-Vert Dual Crown Fork, Need A Heavier Spring- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Bought An Old Manitou X-Vert Dual Crown Fork, Need A Heavier Spring

    I just picked up an old Manitou X-Vert DH (dual crown) fork for a tandem and it works great except the spring is too light. I'm certain Answer hasn't made parts for this thing in years, so I'm looking into other options.

    Has anyone used springs off another fork? Is it possible to just get a heavier spring from an industrial supplier? Is there someone with a stash of old stock laying around?

    I'm just looking for ideas. The action of this fork feels great, it's just a wet noodle on my bike as it stands. I'm about 180 and my wife is about 105, so I'm hoping to find the heaviest spring they made. She hardly makes a difference, but I myself push the fork down a few inches.

  2. #2
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    Pull the springs or elastomers and get dimensions. Once you've got those I'm sure something will pop up.

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    Gotcha. I should have some time to break it down this weekend.

  4. #4
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    Post up a pic.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
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    OK, here's pics. I don't know the model year but I'm guessing it's 2000 or older because it's a skewer axle and spring/elastomer combo. Spring is red, measures about 5.5" long with 3.5" of elastomers.

    Bought An Old Manitou X-Vert Dual Crown Fork, Need A Heavier Spring-kimg1109.jpg

    Bought An Old Manitou X-Vert Dual Crown Fork, Need A Heavier Spring-kimg1103.jpg

    Bought An Old Manitou X-Vert Dual Crown Fork, Need A Heavier Spring-kimg1105.jpg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post
    OK, here's pics. I don't know the model year but I'm guessing it's 2000 or older because it's a skewer axle and spring/elastomer combo. Spring is red, measures about 5.5" long with 3.5" of elastomers.

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    1999 Manitou Xvert T. It's basically a dual crown SX fork with 28.6mm stanchions. Fluid flow orifice damper and odd-ball 69mm disc mount.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

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    Gotcha. I got around the disc mount by modifying a 74mm mount. I'm going to make a permanent piece at work since the extra hole weakens the adapter quite a bit.

    Do you have any idea what the spring rate is on there? Ideally I'd like to replace the whole spring/elastomer stack with just one long spring if that's possible. I just don't know where to start and all the reviews I've found going back to the early 2000's give me the impression Answer didn't support these very well even then.

  8. #8
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    Going to need to know the outer diameter of the spring, larger ain't gonna work. Slightly smaller could. If you're going full spring you'll want to either shrink wrap it or smear with heavy grease to keep it from making noise when it hits the inside of the stanchion. I'd guess you'll want a few steps up from standard springs.

    I've got a 8" red spring 23.6mm or .93" outer diameter. Not sure what it came from or what the firmness is, but you can have it if you pay shipping.

    Also, depending on what is squishier, the elastomers or the spring, here are some firm elastomers...

    New https://www.suspensionforkparts.net/...sh-kit-98.html

    Old (might not be for your fork) Vintage Manitou Elastomer Rebuild Kit: 1996 EFC & SX - Firm - Bike Recyclery
    Last edited by eshew; 09-24-2019 at 09:40 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post
    Gotcha. I got around the disc mount by modifying a 74mm mount. I'm going to make a permanent piece at work since the extra hole weakens the adapter quite a bit.

    Do you have any idea what the spring rate is on there? Ideally I'd like to replace the whole spring/elastomer stack with just one long spring if that's possible. I just don't know where to start and all the reviews I've found going back to the early 2000's give me the impression Answer didn't support these very well even then.
    That red coil spring is #041523 and is 140 lb/in. The stack of MCU elastomer above it will drop the total stack firmness to around half that (70lb/in).

    Yellow coil springs existed which were firmer and blue softer, but I can't remember the exact rate in lb/in. They were used in Xvert and SX forks from 98 through to 02.

    I have a selection of fork coils here listed by dimension and rate, some of them are ridiculously stiff (for jump forks): https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou...l-spring-parts

    Some of them may be small enough OD to work for you:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/black-c...m-manitou.html
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

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    It would be nice to eliminate the elastomers but I'm not sure what I'll need to do for the overall spring length. Do I simply match the replacement spring to the current spring/elastomer height? That makes sense on paper but seems too easy since the spring will need some preload and I'm not sure how close elastomers match up in force/inch to springs. Is it 1:1?

    Since the elastomers are 70lbs/in, am I safe to assume they act as a progressive setup with the 140lb/in spring?

    Since our combined weight is about 280lbs, I'm inclined to go with the stiffest spring available. The 230x23 105lb/in spring seems like it would sag 2-3" static and might be a little soft. Or is my math wrong? Let me know. If you think this will support the weight then I'll place an order.

  11. #11
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    I am looking for a way to rebuild my Manitou LT.

    RE: wantahertzdonut, I wonder if you could use two springs, with a long-firm one in the bottom and a short-softer one in top (where the elastomers were)?

    I saw this project a while back:
    Manitou 1 fork rebuild with springs ยป bMHR

    RE: eshew, do you know if the SX kit will fit on an LT fork?

  12. #12
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    Looks like the 98-99 xvert's are pretty similar in terms of internals, 96 is most likely different based on what the manual shows. Only 98-99 is shown.

    Best bet is to talk to someone who knows these forms inside and out. I would contact these guys to get specifics.

    "If you have any questions about our products or need help with an installation, or if you do not know which model forks model you have. We can help you identify your forks.

    If you can't find a refresh kit for your specific application, don't worry, we can make a custom kit for you. You can contact us at:

    Suspension Fork Parts
    P.O. Box 1001
    St. Teresa, NM 88008

    Toll Free
    1-866-296-0058

    [email protected]

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post
    It would be nice to eliminate the elastomers but I'm not sure what I'll need to do for the overall spring length. Do I simply match the replacement spring to the current spring/elastomer height? That makes sense on paper but seems too easy since the spring will need some preload and I'm not sure how close elastomers match up in force/inch to springs. Is it 1:1?

    Since the elastomers are 70lbs/in, am I safe to assume they act as a progressive setup with the 140lb/in spring?

    Since our combined weight is about 280lbs, I'm inclined to go with the stiffest spring available. The 230x23 105lb/in spring seems like it would sag 2-3" static and might be a little soft. Or is my math wrong? Let me know. If you think this will support the weight then I'll place an order.
    Big question is how big is the ID on those stanchions? I've never had one to check. Take out the spring-stack again and measure the OD of the plastic connectors, they should be close to stanchion ID.

    Yes elastomers are progressive, but I have trouble these days finding the old ones intact enough to measure rates. Many have turned to complete mush.

    Your 280lb total will be maybe 45% on the front wheel. Then the front fork is raked out which gives it some extra leverage. 45% of 280lb is 126 lb which would be 1.2" of sag if the fork was vertical.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by eshew View Post
    Looks like the 98-99 xvert's are pretty similar in terms of internals, 96 is most likely different based on what the manual shows. Only 98-99 is shown.

    Best bet is to talk to someone who knows these forms inside and out. I would contact these guys to get specifics.

    "If you have any questions about our products or need help with an installation, or if you do not know which model forks model you have. We can help you identify your forks.

    If you can't find a refresh kit for your specific application, don't worry, we can make a custom kit for you. You can contact us at:

    Suspension Fork Parts
    P.O. Box 1001
    St. Teresa, NM 88008

    Toll Free
    1-866-296-0058

    [email protected]
    96 and 97 forks had springs and elastomers in both sides. So elastomers were only half as stiff.

    98+ are TPC forks with springs only in one side so spring rates doubled (both springs and elastomers).

    If you're trying to work it out by hand, the pre 98 elastomers feel a bit squishy by hand. The 98 plus feel like you're squeezing a block of wood.

    I have a bike here with those suspensionforkparts elastomers and they were a terrible fit. Wrong length and diameters. The M4 had 30mm of stroke instead of 55mm with their kits installed. Took a lot of modification to make them work properly.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

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    I've been out of town and cell range for about 2 weeks...
    Now that I'm home, i have what I believe is a later model SX fork with an orange spring that seems slightly stiffer than the red spring in my dh fork. Does anyone know the spring rate of those? I'm thinking about dropping it in place of the elastomers, but the catch is it's about 10mm longer than the elastomers stack. And I managed to crossthread the top cap. I'm working on fixing that, but would like some advice if I can do this to get rid of the elastomers.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantahertzdonut View Post
    I've been out of town and cell range for about 2 weeks...
    Now that I'm home, i have what I believe is a later model SX fork with an orange spring that seems slightly stiffer than the red spring in my dh fork. Does anyone know the spring rate of those? I'm thinking about dropping it in place of the elastomers, but the catch is it's about 10mm longer than the elastomers stack. And I managed to crossthread the top cap. I'm working on fixing that, but would like some advice if I can do this to get rid of the elastomers.
    2000 SX manual refers to a 110lb/in coil spring which is 5 7/8" inches long. No mention of colour but red/orange is medium and usually comes stock.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz, Mech Engineer, Tuner, Manitou, Motorex, Vorsprung EPTC, SKF, Enduro
    www.dougal.co.nz

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    I forgot to mention, I'll measure the ID tonight since I'll be in my garage doing some work on this and another old bike.

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