BAD LUCK with FOX 36 ?????- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    42

    BAD LUCK with FOX 36 ?????

    let's analyze a float 36 fork:
    Air chamber: instead having a dual air chamber , with positive and negative air chambers with a matched pressure at zero travel fox uses a stupid negative compression spring which act like a negative chamber by pulling the fork to compress in the first part of the travel.
    now the problem: with dual chamber air systems (RS-MARZO,MANITOU) the pressure of the negative chamber is automatically increased if the pressure in the main chamber is increased, and so the plush-ness of the fork is always attained no matter which is the running pressure of the air spring assembly.

    The fox 36, can be plusher if pumped with small positive air chamber pressure, because the negative pressure spring helps the fork to compress, but become stiffer and stiffer if the main pressure raises up.
    The negative spring is always the same, it doesn't adapt its tech values following the main chaber pressure setting, and so it has always the same compression force.
    what happen so:?....if you inflate your 36 with more than 45-50 psi the fork become harsh in the first part of the travel due to this negative spring problem.
    Can this be solved? NO.

    second problem: frictions:
    forks, like motocross forks , MUST have a solid and precise structure to allow stanchions to slide into the lowers with linearity, without any interference caused by frictions and or plays.
    the fox 36 is usually HARSH and STIFF when it is new because it is well made.
    All the guys out there says "it is new, it is normal that it is not plush, it requires break in periods..."-bla bla bla ......junk sh**....
    Ohlins fork, showa forks....and dorados fork are spectacular out of the box because are machined with precision and assembled with precision.

    Did you try to remove hydraulic pistons and air pistons OUT of your 36s to move the stanchions forth and back on lowers with no other stiction on?......
    the result is just amazing....the fork doesn't slide at all.
    why is that?......
    it is because the bushings, the stanchions, the lowers are not precise.

    you can fit a FIT damper, or any ultra-modern system with fancy name to absorb bumps into a fork, but if the MAIN COMPONTENS of the fork are crap (stanchion, bushings and lowers) how can it work?......
    this is the game of the market: call a system with a super name (ex. mission control DH, FIT RC2...bubba shox, rocket rebound.....LOL), and you are gonna sell it because people wants A NAME, not quality.

    so, ..this is the experience I HAD on fox products: poorly designed, and poorly assembled.

    is it me unlucky????

    peace.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fix the Spade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,749
    Calm down dear, it's the internet!

    As much as I recommend getting a current 55/66/Deville/Lyrik over a 36, it's not the worst fork ever. The Manitou Sherman has already been made, someone's going to have to try really hard to beat that one.

  3. #3
    Greystoke
    Reputation: geo025's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    261
    Get back on the meds bro, you're ranting & not making sense.

    peace out

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiwiplague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,571
    Obviously you haven't ridden any of the lower end Suntour or RST forks lately then.

  5. #5
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,886
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    Obviously you haven't ridden any of the lower end Suntour or RST forks lately then.
    Word... those who have ridden one, know it. Worst, they're pretty hard to kill. So you're stuck for a crappy working fork for a loooong time if you plan on riding it until it fails.

    Mind you, they don't sell for 800 bucks like a Fox.

    OP... I assume you have checked the oil in the fork. Fox and RS have had cases where the fork come with no oil in them (or too low).

    Can't argue with the negative spring, but it would make sense to have different rates to account for different riders.
    Check my Site

  6. #6
    Enthusiast
    Reputation: JonathanGennick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    5,359
    Quote Originally Posted by davide2tempi View Post
    ...with dual chamber air systems (RS-MARZO,MANITOU) the pressure of the negative chamber is automatically increased if the pressure in the main chamber is increased,
    Not always true. With my Reba I must manually put air into the negative side to match the positive side. It is not automatic.

    I've found two chambers to a big pain. I sometimes let others ride my bikes, and thus change pressures fairly often during the season. It is annoying to have to check two air chambers instead of one. I no longer consider separate air-chambers as an advantage.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,815
    Quote Originally Posted by davide2tempi View Post
    if you think that your fox is the state of the art of the suspensions....I advise you to re plan your idea, this is why:

    poorly designed, poorly made.

    let's analyze a float 36 fork:
    Air chamber: instead having a dual air chamber , with positive and negative air chambers with a matched pressure at zero travel fox uses a stupid negative compression spring which act like a negative chamber by pulling the fork to compress in the first part of the travel.
    now the problem: with dual chamber air systems (RS-MARZO,MANITOU) the pressure of the negative chamber is automatically increased if the pressure in the main chamber is increased, and so the plush-ness of the fork is always attained no matter which is the running pressure of the air spring assembly.

    The fox 36, can be plusher if pumped with small positive air chamber pressure, because the negative pressure spring helps the fork to compress, but become stiffer and stiffer if the main pressure raises up.
    The negative spring is always the same, it doesn't adapt its tech values following the main chaber pressure setting, and so it has always the same compression force.
    what happen so:?....if you inflate your 36 with more than 45-50 psi the fork become harsh in the first part of the travel due to this negative spring problem.
    Can this be solved? NO.

    second problem: frictions:
    forks, like motocross forks , MUST have a solid and precise structure to allow stanchions to slide into the lowers with linearity, without any interference caused by frictions and or plays.
    the fox 36 is usually HARSH and STIFF when it is new because it is well made.
    All the guys out there says "it is new, it is normal that it is not plush, it requires break in periods..."-bla bla bla ......junk sh**....
    Ohlins fork, showa forks....and dorados fork are spectacular out of the box because are machined with precision and assembled with precision.

    Did you try to remove hydraulic pistons and air pistons OUT of your 36s to move the stanchions forth and back on lowers with no other stiction on?......
    the result is just amazing....the fork doesn't slide at all.
    why is that?......
    it is because the bushings, the stanchions, the lowers are not precise.

    you can fit a FIT damper, or any ultra-modern system with fancy name to absorb bumps into a fork, but if the MAIN COMPONTENS of the fork are crap (stanchion, bushings and lowers) how can it work?......
    this is the game of the market: call a system with a super name (ex. mission control DH, FIT RC2...bubba shox, rocket rebound.....LOL), and you are gonna sell it because people wants A NAME, not quality.

    so, ..this is the experience I had on fox products: poorly designed, and poorly assembled.

    I hope that someone started to understand like me what there is inside in our bicycles rather than buy with blind eyes.

    peace.
    The coil negative spring might not be adjustable, but it's very robust. There are a lot of threads on here with people having problems with the Dual Air system leaking. I've dealt with it myself. The Fox system just keeps working. When the Fox is properly broken in, you don't lose a lot of plushness at higher pressures, it really at low pressures (light riders) where you can find problems.

    If you'd take the time to break in the fork, then it would be plush. However, it looks like the problem is you don't have enough patience, and not with the fork. You can't compare how a motorcycle fork feels to a bike fork, because the weights involved are completely different - it's easy to keep a fork tight and plush when you have 200 pounds sitting on it, it's a lot more difficult when you only have 50 pounds on it. Additionally, the Dorado's design helped it feel so plush, as it was an USD fork, so the oil is sitting on the bushings/seals, but then again that forced the Dorado to make other compromises. You would have been miserable waiting for an older Marzocchi (which are the epitome of plush) to break in.

    But seriously, get back on your meds.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    42
    right man....so it is me unlucky.....with my crap fox?....... I will to find a fox working spot-on....so I can reconsider!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,815
    Quote Originally Posted by davide2tempi View Post
    right man....so it is me unlucky.....with my crap fox?....... I will to find a fox working spot-on....so I can reconsider!
    Check the oil, then ride it until it breaks in.

    So you seriously wrote that rant with a sampling of one fork?

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    42
    negative.....I tried at least 4 different foxes....and all of them were the same: high stiction .....
    did you ever checked the alignment of the stanchions and the bushings.??......with proper tech tools I mean!

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,815
    Quote Originally Posted by davide2tempi View Post
    negative.....I tried at least 4 different foxes....and all of them were the same: high stiction .....
    did you ever checked the alignment of the stanchions and the bushings.??......with proper tech tools I mean!
    I've worked on a lot of Fox forks, and they've always had good alignment and good quality overall. In fact, once you start looking inside forks, you'll see why Fox is so expensive, as everything is machined aluminum. You simply don't find plastic bits inside a Fox. With proper maintenance, a Fox fork will keep working well for years and years. As has already been stated, new Fox forks need to be broken in.

    Fox just really can't win. For years people were complaining about their looser bushing tolerances which allowed them to be plush out of the box. So they said "ok" and tightened up the tolerances, and now people are complaining it takes too long to break in.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Salespunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    5,960
    As far as expensive aluminum in the Fox forks think again. I was privy to a bid for Fox to bring all of that machining back to the US from China. It was not pretty from a cost perspective and they stayed with China as far as I know. The cost was about $70 for ALL of the machined parts including finishing, laser etching, anno, etc.

    That being said, I was also annoyed with my Fox out of the box, but it did break in nicely. Still had to tear down the fork to fix the oil migration issue and cannot get full travel unless I land HARD.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: One Pivot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    9,294
    Do the vanilla conversion. The 36 is a good fork, and im really not a fox fan. After being on all the major fork brands, ive come to the conclusion that they ALL work better with a coil spring installed.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,344
    Perhaps Fox could consider offering ride kits like manitou, with negative coils of various firmnesses that would partially address the OP's issues.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.