Avalanche deal gone bad

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  • 10-07-2019
    nhodge
    Avalanche deal gone bad
    wasn't there a thread on this forum recently about one person's deal w/ AVA Downhill Racing describing his experience? if it wasn't here on the "Shocks & Suspension " forum, where is it if you know?

    thanks
  • 10-07-2019
    Harryman
    I deleted it at the request of the OP.
  • 10-07-2019
    mtnbkrmike
    There goes some valuable information and very candid feedback - both positive and not so positive - that may have been useful for anyone considering Avalanche products, and how to best approach Craig. Everything was very civil and reasonable in tone.

    This wasn't just the OP's thread. Lots of people spent considerable time contributing to it. In fact, the OP started it, got pissed off at the replies and peaced very early on. And now he comes back demanding it be deleted.

    As an alternative to deleting the thread, couldn't the OP's posts (and reference to them) have been deleted instead, keeping the rest of the thread intact?
  • 10-07-2019
    tbmaddux
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    As an alternative to deleting the thread, couldn't the OP's posts (and reference to them) have been deleted instead, keeping the rest of the thread intact?

    Iím an engineer, so let me assure you that the answer is no.
  • 10-07-2019
    Dark Meat
    Moderators gone wild...
  • 10-07-2019
    mykel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    Iím an engineer, so let me assure you that the answer is no.

    :devil:
  • 10-07-2019
    WHALENARD
    ^lol
  • 10-07-2019
    Harryman
    The OP felt bad about his rant and asked me to dump it on Friday. I gotta respect a guy who thinks he did wrong and is trying to make it right. I was out riding my bike and enjoying the beautiful fall weekend, so I didn't get in front of a computer until today. Reading through the thread I didn't see much worth saving, still don't. If you all want to start another thread about Craig's customer service, or engineers in general, have at it.
  • 10-07-2019
    mtnbkrmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    The OP felt bad about his rant and asked me to dump it on Friday. I gotta respect a guy who thinks he did wrong and is trying to make it right. I was out riding my bike and enjoying the beautiful fall weekend, so I didn't get in front of a computer until today. Reading through the thread I didn't see much worth saving, still don't. If you all want to start another thread about Craig's customer service, or engineers in general, have at it.

    Fair enough. Thanks.
  • 10-07-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    Iím an engineer, so let me assure you that the answer is no.

    But Engineers aren't allowed to post on the internet!
  • 10-08-2019
    PhillipJ
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    But Engineers aren't allowed to post on the internet!

    The Internet will allow it but they must provide a CV demonstrating relevant experience with respect to the subject they're "as an engineer"-ing.
  • 10-08-2019
    Dougal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PhillipJ View Post
    The Internet will allow it but they must provide a CV demonstrating relevant experience with respect to the subject they're "as an engineer"-ing.

    Well damn, this'll be a quiet place.........
  • 10-08-2019
    Blatant
    Unless you went to an Ivy League school. Then the world -- or at least the Internet -- is your oyster.
  • 10-08-2019
    the mayor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    But Engineers aren't allowed to post on the internet!

    They are allowed to post on the internet.
    But they shouldn't talk to other engineers.
    Signed
    An Engineer ( who may not be a "real" engineer...)
  • 10-08-2019
    the mayor
    This thread may be the bestest thread on MTBR today!
  • 10-08-2019
    minimusprime
    1 Attachment(s)
  • 10-08-2019
    127.0.0.1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Unless you went to an Ivy League school. Then the world -- or at least the Internet -- is your oyster.

    can confirm, am world.
  • 10-08-2019
    pedrosalas7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Unless you went to an Ivy League school. Then the world -- or at least the Internet -- is your oyster.

    As an engineer I don't like oysters.
  • 10-08-2019
    nhodge
    sorry to interrupt the comedy hour but i'm here to take the moderator up on his offer to continue the CS experience.

    to keep it simple & short, i'll just point out that it only took him 4(four) years to get the revised shim schedule sent to me to reshim after getting the correct spring for my weight. he didn't bother telling me initially that the spring i had in there first was for someone weighing at least 30 lbs. more, thus custom cartridge being impossible. at that time, his mantra for sag was 25%, no less, no more. i got it back w/ of course way less, right around 12/13%.

    there is so much more to bit+ch about, but i'll leave it here
  • 10-08-2019
    Haint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    sorry to interrupt the comedy hour but i'm here to take the moderator up on his offer to continue the CS experience.

    to keep it simple & short, i'll just point out that it only took him 4(four) years to get the revised shim schedule sent to me to reshim after getting the correct spring for my weight. he didn't bother telling me initially that the spring i had in there first was for someone weighing at least 30 lbs. more, thus custom cartridge being impossible. at that time, his mantra for sag was 25%, no less, no more. i got it back w/ of course way less, right around 12/13%.

    there is so much more to bit+ch about, but i'll leave it here


    Punctuation is a helper for presenting yourself w/ writing FWIW.

    I think the Cat just crapped on the Television again - GTG.
  • 10-08-2019
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Punctuation is a helper for presenting yourself w/ writing FWIW.

    I think the Cat just crapped on the Television again - GTG.

    that's the best you got?
    you might want to teach your cat to use the sandbox.
  • 10-08-2019
    Haint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    that's the best you got?
    you might want to teach your cat to use the sandbox.

    Creating a 4yo back story on the Internet - that's the best you got?

    Craig does not accept Cash soooo - you had buyers protection since this is goods n' services; Credit/Debit/Bank Check - provided by issuers and, Services is maintained a protected transaction.

    Am certain that somewhere a $7000.00 complete bike sale just went awry - poor communication. Going to wait for the internet thread by the Television.

    ...that derned cat!
  • 10-08-2019
    nhodge
    you Haint got a clue
  • 10-08-2019
    Haint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    you Haint got a clue about what I am talking about

    Pierre Salinger you are not - more like J.D. Salinger drinking his own urine in an Avalanche.

    /Thread
  • 10-08-2019
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Pierre Salinger you are not - more like J.D. Salinger drinking his own urine in an Avalanche.

    /Thread

    truly in love w/ yourself, even being clueless
  • 10-08-2019
    Mudguard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    wasn't there a thread on this forum recently about one person's deal w/ AVA Downhill Racing describing his experience? if it wasn't here on the "Shocks & Suspension " forum, where is it if you know?

    thanks

    I suggested it should be deleted. If you're first post on a forum is to complain about a company/product then I don't think it's fair. What use is it to the community? S/he may have had a genuine grievance, but we don't know as the other party can't chime in.
    It could've been a misunderstanding, the OP could've been rude or it happened as was written. Same could go for this thread too.
  • 10-08-2019
    mechsc1
    Pretty sure the OP, of the deleted thread, got tired of being punished by Avalanche ďproductĒ fans. I had one conversation w/ Craig and thought I should have just stayed w/ the website info. Though he was full of info. I started to feel like he could care less about what I had to say and just wanted to vent if I said anything remotely against his line of thought. He may make a great product but no way would I want a CS issue.
  • 10-08-2019
    127.0.0.1
    good thing I don't do stanky stunts and drops that require more than the default package from DVO for bike bounce in chunkytown WHEW
  • 10-08-2019
    wheatgerm
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    I suggested it should be deleted. If you're first post on a forum is to complain about a company/product then I don't think it's fair. What use is it to the community? S/he may have had a genuine grievance, but we don't know as the other party can't chime in.
    It could've been a misunderstanding, the OP could've been rude or it happened as was written. Same could go for this thread too.

    But what about all of the responses from veteran forum members? Those were deleted as well. Is that fair?
  • 10-08-2019
    OldHouseMan
    Reading the OP's OP in the deleted Avalanche thread was reminiscent of my first and only conversation I had with the guy from Avalanche. No wonder they didn't get along.
  • 10-08-2019
    Blatant
    So, to be clear, the OP of this thread was interested in the previous Avalanche thread, but couldn't manage to post there.

    Now, he creates a new thread inquiring about the old one. Only to find out, he really just wants an avenue to lodge a 4-year-old complaint. Message received.

    Passive-aggressive Internet-ery at its finest. (I won't bother pointing out the importance of grammar, punctuation and sentence structure when one is trying to make a BIG POINT.)
  • 10-08-2019
    phuchmileif
    Sooo I literally was stopping by the forum to see what was new and then MAYBE make some kind of post asking what the best (and/or highest bang for your buck) DH fork option was for an Avvy conversion...

    What's the deal? Is the guy really that bad? Usually, if someone offers decent customer service, people will be overwhelmingly positive despite anything else. Personally, I'm fine with focusing on the product and accepting things like 'it's just one guy and he's very busy.' I don't care if he has strong opinions. I don't care if he's not the easiest to get a hold of (though I would still expect some basic CS...respond to emails within a day or two, basically...).

    Just wanna know what to expect. Do they give realistic time estimates? That's probably my biggest thing...don't tell me it'll take two weeks and then keep my fork for six months. I just need honesty up front.
  • 10-08-2019
    mtnbkrmike
    Avalanche deal gone bad
    A similar version of my post that got deleted:

    Hands down the most fíed up telephone discussion I have had with an industry retailer in 25+ years.

    I may have caught him in a high rage moment but after going on and on in a 15 minute rant covering random views that I felt obligated to endure as a precondition to a purchase (much like a time share presentation), he spent 15 minutes ripping the f out of my 2015 Norco Range for using what he thought was a non-standard (larger) shock bolt size. He then ripped my LBS (it was a general attack - he didnít even know who it was) and basically told me he would not sell me a fork cartridge if I was going to get them to install it during my annual fork overhaul.

    I left the call ordering nothing and honestly wondering if the guy was senile.
  • 10-08-2019
    tbmaddux
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    don't tell me it'll take two weeks and then keep my fork for six months. I just need honesty up front.

    It ... kinda sounds like you schedule with them on the website, then a lady calls you (?) back and tells you when to ship it (not right away) so that youíre not separated from your suspension product (fork) for a long time? Maybe? Iíve never worked with them but thatís what I got from a couple posts in the other thread, I think. What time is it? Am I still an engineer? Iím gonna go polish my PhD with Pedroís and Motorex Supergliss..
  • 10-08-2019
    noobshredur
    I guess I'll chime in...

    I'm queued up for a new Guerrilla Gravity framed and wanted a custom tuned coil.

    As a result of reading a bit in the internet, I stumbled upon Avalanche. I shot them inquiry about "If linkage and leverage curve of the Shred Dog will work with his tune" thru email and Craig responded promptly.

    He was honest to say that he doesn't know since he doesn't have much data on the new Revved frames. If he's going to tune my shock, it will be an educated guess based on previous models. His guess was that the Shred Dogg will be progressive enough around 2.6 to 2.8 ratio.
    He proceeded to tell me that if I can reach out to GG maybe he can provide a more accurate tune.

    I found out GG does not publicly share their leverage curves but still went ahead and sent them to Craig directly.

    Craig's guesstimates were spot on. 2.83 ratio on the Shred Dogg.

    As a 150lbs rider, he recommended a 400# spring which sounded to me will be on the stiff side.

    3 days ago he gave me a call when he was about to work on my shock, he provided detailed info about the tune and spring choice. A lot of it went over my head, as I'm not a shock expert nor an engineer. I did appreciate the time he took explaining it to me though.

    Before this phone call, I already know what to expect from the guy thru reading the internets. It did not bother me one bit, the dude is just passionate to about his work. I have yet to get my frame and shock, hopefully this week, so I can't say anything about the work quality atm. We will see.
  • 10-08-2019
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    So, to be clear, the OP of this thread was interested in the previous Avalanche thread, but couldn't manage to post there.

    Now, he creates a new thread inquiring about the old one. Only to find out, he really just wants an avenue to lodge a 4-year-old complaint. Message received.

    Passive-aggressive Internet-ery at its finest. (I won't bother pointing out the importance of grammar, punctuation and sentence structure when one is trying to make a BIG POINT.)

    i just got back from 4 days out of town.
    did you get the point that he took 4 years to send me the new shim schedule? just got that last year. i did the work.
    did you understand that he shouldn't have built the cartridge in the first place, since the spring wasn't close for my weight?
    i guess i missed the part where a time limit on posting was mentioned. this was about AVA CS experience, regardless of when it happened.

    you're just upset because i questioned your decision to sell the best bike you ever had, after owning about 30 in 2 years. i see you came to your senses.
    somewhat
  • 10-08-2019
    Blatant
    ?? OK, my guy. I guess I'm not sure who you are, but I'm sure you're right.

    Ivy League engineer, by chance?

    Next addition to my ignore list ...
  • 10-08-2019
    wrc2006
    Had my X2 tuned by him this summer. It took longer than I expected to get back, but was informed that he had some significant personal stuff happening. It had developed the X2 "squish" sound on rebound, and Fox didn't even respond to my service requests until Avalanche already had the shock (bc they were apparently moving, but still...).
    Despite the delay, I'm impressed with the difference in the shock. Probably going to get a cartridge for my 36 when I can afford it.
    Be honest on the form and with any follow-up questions.
    He reminded me a lot of my dad - direct and strong opinions based on experience.
  • 10-08-2019
    mtnbkrmike
    I have a bad feeling this thread is going to get yanked too...
  • 10-09-2019
    Stahr_Nut
    I had a couple posts in the original thread about a negative experience I recently had with them I wish would not have been deleted. I felt I took the time to word them such that I avoided taking significant pot-shots at Craig's personality and focused more on the end performance (or more accurately, lack there of) of his product.

    I'll never understand why on this board when someone posts about a negative experience with something someone else has had a positive experience with that someone else always feels the need to chime in and say that isn't possible, there must be more to the story or it must be your fault.

    Why can't people just let other people post their opinions and experiences (positive and negative) and move on? Do you really think people are taking the time to come on here and fabricate stories about dealing with Avalanche?

    Edit on 10/16: The Moderator was able to send me my posts from the original thread that got removed so I'm adding them onto this one....

    I could find a way to get past his arrogant rambling sale pitch phone calls if his product actually did what he said it was going to do. But unfortunately in my experience (granted it is only a sample size of 1) it did not come close.

    I had him do his SSD/HSB mod to a Fox DPS Evol and even after sending it back to him a second time for adjustments I could barely tell any difference between it and its stock form. I'd say the pedaling platform was marginally improved however it still wallowed horribly in g-out type scenarios and its performance over low amplitude-high frequency chattery sections was worse than stock.

    At the end of our second phone call to discuss the above situation is when he told me I needed to temper my expectations and that was quite disappointing to hear and figured, it is what it is, live and learn.

    But as it turns out there was absolutely no reason for me to temper my expectations. I have since replaced that SSD/HSB modified DPS with a Manitou Mcleod and I can say with 100% honesty, right out of the box, the Mcleod does everything and more than what I was hoping to get out of my modified DPS from Avalanche. My first ride on the Mcleod was literally an "ah ha, where have you been all my life" experience.

    Again, I'm just a sample size of one so take my experience for what it's worth. However I do think it's info I should put out there for others to consider.

    One last thing of note. Upon receiving my shock back from him the second time and taking it on a 2h15m ride the air pressure went from 235psi to 105psi. So he sent a shock back to me that would not even hold pressure. I had to do my own air can service on it to get it to hold air.
  • 10-09-2019
    karpiel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I had a couple posts in the original thread about a negative experience I recently had with them I wish would not have been deleted. I felt I took the time to word them such that I avoided taking significant pot-shots at Craig's personality and focused more on the end performance (or more accurately, lack there of) of his product.

    I'll never understand why on this board when someone posts about a negative experience with something someone else has had a positive experience with that someone else always feels the need to chime in and say that isn't possible, there must be more to the story or it must be your fault.

    Why can't people just let other people post their opinions and experiences (positive and negative) and move on? Do you really think people are taking the time to come on here and fabricate stories about dealing with Avalanche?

    Very well said, my sentiments also.

    Craig has allways been fantastic with me in answering numerous questions regarding his products, generally within a few hours.

    Some have mentioned his tunes are a bit off and although I found my 36 cartridge a bit harsh it may have been because I was over estimating my skill level when I gave him my details.

    The X2 he added his SSD to too I had to go approx 2 clicks lighter on HSC and HSR and approx 2 clicks firmer on LSC and LSR from his suggested settings, other than that more than happy.

    Cherio.
  • 10-09-2019
    Haint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
    Very well said, my sentiments also.

    Craig has allways been fantastic with me in answering numerous questions regarding his products, generally within a few hours.

    Some have mentioned his tunes are a bit off and although I found my 36 cartridge a bit harsh it may have been because I was over estimating my skill level when I gave him my details.

    The X2 he added his SSD to too I had to go approx 2 clicks lighter on HSC and HSR and approx 2 clicks firmer on LSC and LSR from his suggested settings, other than that more than happy.

    Cherio.

    The style of requesting Avalanche services is as basic a process - (intended) a web-based submission and inclusive of enough talking-points to better arrive on the end product.

    'Problem' if it were is that - everyone's a Pro. Look at content in this thread - main instigator cannot format a presentation as a normal person and, again, is relying upon having an already charged-following.

    It took one full season of racing/riding my one bike to finally have a cartridge be built. Much like most others, using of Pro - Expert etc. for generalizations was intimidating because, afterall this is a very involved process and is intended for a balanced result.

    Avalanche can rightfully request 'Pro' level work; am fairly certain many who just checked all the boxes for a build went Pro. Craig Seekins has strong base experience with Bicycling, had raced BMX with Richie Rude's Father in the CT NBL State Series - Bristol, Trumbull, Meridan and Bethel. John Mayer (yes - that John Mayer, pre Jen Anniston and, guitar...) would come out to the Bethel track BITD.

    Corn Flake.
  • 10-09-2019
    driver bob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    I have a bad feeling this thread is going to get yanked too...

    Nope... no reason I can see yet, though a couple of posts have been a little...zesty...
  • 10-09-2019
    rscecil007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    So, to be clear, the OP of this thread was interested in the previous Avalanche thread, but couldn't manage to post there.

    Now, he creates a new thread inquiring about the old one. Only to find out, he really just wants an avenue to lodge a 4-year-old complaint. Message received.

    Passive-aggressive Internet-ery at its finest. (I won't bother pointing out the importance of grammar, punctuation and sentence structure when one is trying to make a BIG POINT.)

    Not to take any sides, but to nhodge's point: He has been talking about this specific issue on mtbr for years now. Not counting, but 4 would seem ballpark correct.
  • 10-09-2019
    Vespasianus
    Craig from Avalanche is sleeping with my women, raising my children and he also stole my fricken car. Hate the guy.
  • 10-09-2019
    Mudguard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    'Problem' if it were is that - everyone's a Pro. Look at content in this thread - main instigator cannot format a presentation as a normal person and, again, is relying upon having an already charged-following.
    .

    On a slightly unrelated note, I once raced (in a strictly amateur capacity) in a Super D and was doing my usual line at my usual speed and I got passed by someone who was going so much faster and on such a different line that I didn't have to do anything other than admire them.
    Turns out it was Fabien Barel. We were possibly a similar weight but that would be the only comparison I would have with him. I hate to think how much harder he would need to run his suspension.
  • 10-09-2019
    Nurse Ben
    Iím 195# and I run a 400# spring on my Revved Shred Dogg.

    You can compute the leverage ratio yourself, but yes, ~2.8 is correct.

    I had my Bomber CR tuned in Reno by Mike at Mad Dog. There are lots of tuners out there, just saying ...

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by noobshredur View Post
    I guess I'll chime in...

    I'm queued up for a new Guerrilla Gravity framed and wanted a custom tuned coil.

    As a result of reading a bit in the internet, I stumbled upon Avalanche. I shot them inquiry about "If linkage and leverage curve of the Shred Dog will work with his tune" thru email and Craig responded promptly.

    He was honest to say that he doesn't know since he doesn't have much data on the new Revved frames. If he's going to tune my shock, it will be an educated guess based on previous models. His guess was that the Shred Dogg will be progressive enough around 2.6 to 2.8 ratio.
    He proceeded to tell me that if I can reach out to GG maybe he can provide a more accurate tune.

    I found out GG does not publicly share their leverage curves but still went ahead and sent them to Craig directly.

    Craig's guesstimates were spot on. 2.83 ratio on the Shred Dogg.

    As a 150lbs rider, he recommended a 400# spring which sounded to me will be on the stiff side.

    3 days ago he gave me a call when he was about to work on my shock, he provided detailed info about the tune and spring choice. A lot of it went over my head, as I'm not a shock expert nor an engineer. I did appreciate the time he took explaining it to me though.

    Before this phone call, I already know what to expect from the guy thru reading the internets. It did not bother me one bit, the dude is just passionate to about his work. I have yet to get my frame and shock, hopefully this week, so I can't say anything about the work quality atm. We will see.

  • 10-10-2019
    Haint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    On a slightly unrelated note, I once raced (in a strictly amateur capacity) in a Super D and was doing my usual line at my usual speed and I got passed by someone who was going so much faster and on such a different line that I didn't have to do anything other than admire them.
    Turns out it was Fabien Barel. We were possibly a similar weight but that would be the only comparison I would have with him. I hate to think how much harder he would need to run his suspension.

    Any suspension is result of tuning - there'd never be a sudden shift to having 'stiff' or 'soft' as what is getting racers across the line first. Much of what would have riding line choice be noticed is having good communication with a builder and, understanding what it is that's happening on the bike.

    Manitou appears to be getting the business on PB with a new fork; comments section there, not even 5 comments in as of this morning - it's the newest found thing that HSC and LSC apparently are not each an isolated adjustment.

    Be all end all is that - like Dave Weagle put into his book of knowledge so long ago - a suspension bike is going to want to react like a rigid bike from input and, it can be expanded upon while being preserved in the process. There's the system of bike and rider always being contended with and, not having efficient form will overdrive any suspension. Relying too much on suspension will never have a rider develop efficient form.

    Mountain Bike suspension is launching itself to the proverbial 'crossroads' - so much resources to manufacture a finished product and - no one is satisfied. It has definitely lost the 'purity' aspect had from riding rigid and just going 'deep' as it were.
  • 10-10-2019
    mike156
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I'll never understand why on this board when someone posts about a negative experience with something someone else has had a positive experience with that someone else always feels the need to chime in and say that isn't possible, there must be more to the story or it must be your fault.

    Why can't people just let other people post their opinions and experiences (positive and negative) and move on? Do you really think people are taking the time to come on here and fabricate stories about dealing with Avalanche?

    Most people aren't reliable narrators to their own stories?

    Somebody show up putting somebody else on blast because they had a bad experience, it's my opinion that they are a fair target to be cross examined?

    I would expect the same for a positive review. "How good of a rider are you? How many other products have you actually tried? Do you stand to benefit in any way with your review?" All valid questions, good or bad review.
  • 10-10-2019
    Mudguard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Relying too much on suspension will never have a rider develop efficient form.

    That is true, but even so, a professional is likely to need a stiffer set up (higher spring rate, more compression damping) than Joe Normal, simply as they're travelling so much faster.
    I have three positions on my rear shock for HSC, I've only used the third position (fully closed) a handful of times, it feels like my ankles will break otherwise.
  • 10-10-2019
    Haint
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    That is true, but even so, a professional is likely to need a stiffer set up (higher spring rate, more compression damping) than Joe Normal, simply as they're travelling so much faster.
    I have three positions on my rear shock for HSC, I've only used the third position (fully closed) a handful of times, it feels like my ankles will break otherwise.

    How baseline settings get applied w/ my suspension had the fork get worked to match an open, non-damped shock. Compression would increase if riding trail loops while the fork would see 2-3lbs increase in support psi.
    Dunno if my bike is stiff, works on trail and works for limited full DH. Main point is still that I'd have to think - especially given the content here as of late - a majority number chose Pro, Pro, Big Drops, Magazine Cover(s) and thought they'd ride it out because... they're just the best. A full spiff fork would be built for use during that energy drink experimental cryogenic brain freeze Utah event.
  • 10-10-2019
    noobshredur
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Iím 195# and I run a 400# spring on my Revved Shred Dogg.

    You can compute the leverage ratio yourself, but yes, ~2.8 is correct.

    I had my Bomber CR tuned in Reno by Mike at Mad Dog. There are lots of tuners out there, just saying ...

    At that time I really had no idea what I was doing(that didn't change much) All I know and want was to try out a custom tune coil. I did figure out the initial leverage curve but wasn't sure what is the kinematics at near bottom out.

    How is the 400# spring for you? Is it too soft? I know its counterintuitive but I wanted a coil that is not too plush but active in the initial stroke. This is what Craig said about choosing a spring rate.

    "The spring simply needs to support the rider weight at the leverage produced by the linkage. It is a fairly progressive linkage so the spring we calculate is 395 lb/in with the assumed 65% on the rear wheel for aggressive descending on a enduro style bike. Maybe you can find a leverage curve to see how high the starting leverage is? With a highly progressive linkage the rate would be closer to 350 lb and would work better with a bit more preload. Many people online adjust for the lack of damping or too much damping by switching springs out, we have an advantage that we are revalving the damping to be correct so no need to Band-Aid fix the bike with the wrong spring."

    With that, I proceeded to go with his advice despite what GG recommended, which is 350# for my weight.
  • 10-10-2019
    cmg
    A thread about customer service has turned in a thread about suspension and how to ride with it

    ?????????
  • 10-10-2019
    mtnbkrmike
    It evolved into a train wreck.
  • 10-10-2019
    Jayem
    I have no idea what is going on here...
  • 10-11-2019
    Blatant
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    It evolved into a train wreck.

    To me, it appears to be evolving FROM a train wreck into something approaching usefulness.
  • 10-11-2019
    teK--
    My last dealing with Craig at Avalanche was about 5 years ago when I got a fork cartridge from him.

    Overall very happy and I sent way too many emails afterwards asking for help about my setup. Maybe 2 days on average to get a reply each time (I'm on other side of the world?), and mostly his replies were detailed and helpful.

    Maybe he's changed of late?
  • 10-11-2019
    nhodge
    i wonder if Blatant will attempt to add anything useful
  • 10-12-2019
    mtnbiker4life
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    But Engineers aren't allowed to post on the internet!

    Unless they have a masters degree!
  • 10-12-2019
    Vader
    I'm about to order a cartridge from Avy. Hopefully it goes smoother, with a functioning product unlike my results with everyone else's favorite tuning co.
  • 10-12-2019
    not2shabby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I'm about to order a cartridge from Avy. Hopefully it goes smoother, with a functioning product unlike my results with everyone else's favorite tuning co.

    I ordered mine about a year ago; used the website and answered all the questions honestly(mtb riding god!...not!) and Wendy sent me an email when my cart shipped. From what I had read, I was kinda expecting a call or email with a few questions but never got one. I have NO complaints about the product. I've been running within a click or 2 of the recommended settings.
  • 10-12-2019
    Blatant
    ^^ This was my experience when ordering a fork damper.

    The only caveat I can think of -- aside from not talking to Craig on the phone -- is custom shock tunes and damper make a bike much more difficult to sell. Make sure it's a bike you plan to keep awhile, or a shock/fork that you can port to your next rig.
  • 10-12-2019
    outlaw
    Give the guy a break right now, his father just passed, and obviously they were really tight, and I believe it happened around the time of this post as I am almost sure since I just had my DPX2 done and he spoke to me about it and was openly distraught. anyway let it go! If you don't like him just don't order. simple as that....
  • 10-12-2019
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I'm about to order a cartridge from Avy. Hopefully it goes smoother, with a functioning product unlike my results with everyone else's favorite tuning co.

    i wouldn't worry about it. obviously, there are many times more satisfied customers than not. the odds of something happening to you that i had, is again, way unlikely. the fact that it's even possible, is what's so bizarre.

    but hey, even Push aint 100%. know what i mean?
  • 11-30-2019
    NH Mtbiker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    I had a couple posts in the original thread about a negative experience I recently had with them I wish would not have been deleted. I felt I took the time to word them such that I avoided taking significant pot-shots at Craig's personality and focused more on the end performance (or more accurately, lack there of) of his product.

    I'll never understand why on this board when someone posts about a negative experience with something someone else has had a positive experience with that someone else always feels the need to chime in and say that isn't possible, there must be more to the story or it must be your fault.

    Why can't people just let other people post their opinions and experiences (positive and negative) and move on? Do you really think people are taking the time to come on here and fabricate stories about dealing with Avalanche?

    Edit on 10/16: The Moderator was able to send me my posts from the original thread that got removed so I'm adding them onto this one....

    I could find a way to get past his arrogant rambling sale pitch phone calls if his product actually did what he said it was going to do. But unfortunately in my experience (granted it is only a sample size of 1) it did not come close.

    I had him do his SSD/HSB mod to a Fox DPS Evol and even after sending it back to him a second time for adjustments I could barely tell any difference between it and its stock form. I'd say the pedaling platform was marginally improved however it still wallowed horribly in g-out type scenarios and its performance over low amplitude-high frequency chattery sections was worse than stock.

    At the end of our second phone call to discuss the above situation is when he told me I needed to temper my expectations and that was quite disappointing to hear and figured, it is what it is, live and learn.

    But as it turns out there was absolutely no reason for me to temper my expectations. I have since replaced that SSD/HSB modified DPS with a Manitou Mcleod and I can say with 100% honesty, right out of the box, the Mcleod does everything and more than what I was hoping to get out of my modified DPS from Avalanche. My first ride on the Mcleod was literally an "ah ha, where have you been all my life" experience.

    Again, I'm just a sample size of one so take my experience for what it's worth. However I do think it's info I should put out there for others to consider.

    One last thing of note. Upon receiving my shock back from him the second time and taking it on a 2h15m ride the air pressure went from 235psi to 105psi. So he sent a shock back to me that would not even hold pressure. I had to do my own air can service on it to get it to hold air.

    I also have a Fox Evol rear shock and am looking to either have tuned or replace. Was your shock off a Trek Fuel EX? I would also consider the Mcleod if it fits a 17 Fuel EX. Nothing but great reviews on that shock. Also, $230 is a bit much for a shock tune. Thnx!
  • 12-01-2019
    Stahr_Nut
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NH Mtbiker View Post
    I also have a Fox Evol rear shock and am looking to either have tuned or replace. Was your shock off a Trek Fuel EX? I would also consider the Mcleod if it fits a 17 Fuel EX. Nothing but great reviews on that shock. Also, $230 is a bit much for a shock tune. Thnx!

    The shock I had the SSD/HSB mod done to was a Fox Factory DPS Evol off a Pivot Mach 429 Trail.

    Even if I could get past the rambling, condescending, snake oil sales pitch phone calls I could never bring my self to recommend the Fox DPS Evol and SSD/HSB modification. After having ridden both, IMO, for the type of riding I do, I find the Manitou McLeod to be a superior performer in every respect. I cannot speak to any of the other products or services he offers.
  • 12-01-2019
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stahr_Nut View Post
    The shock I had the SSD/HSB mod done to was a Fox Factory DPS Evol off a Pivot Mach 429 Trail.

    Even if I could get past the rambling, condescending, snake oil sales pitch phone calls I could never bring my self to recommend the Fox DPS Evol and SSD/HSB modification. After having ridden both, IMO, for the type of riding I do, I find the Manitou McLeod to be a superior performer in every respect. I cannot speak to any of the other products or services he offers.

    yessir, i love hearing me some tales of woe dealing w/ the supreme psycho of suspension service. i do believe he's got that part of the market to himself
  • 12-01-2019
    Gman086
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by outlaw View Post
    Give the guy a break right now, his father just passed, and obviously they were really tight, and I believe it happened around the time of this post as I am almost sure since I just had my DPX2 done and he spoke to me about it and was openly distraught. anyway let it go! If you don't like him just don't order. simple as that....

    How is your Avy DPX2 performing?

    As for Stahr Nut's complaint... I guess that doesn't surprise me as the DPS platform is rather limiting.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
  • 12-01-2019
    Miker J
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    good thing I don't do stanky stunts and drops that require more than the default package from DVO for bike bounce in chunkytown WHEW

    That right there has a real nifty ring to it.
  • 12-01-2019
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by outlaw View Post
    Give the guy a break right now, his father just passed, and obviously they were really tight, and I believe it happened around the time of this post as I am almost sure since I just had my DPX2 done and he spoke to me about it and was openly distraught. anyway let it go! If you don't like him just don't order. simple as that....

    he is now posting comments, so i guess he is dealing w/ the passing of his father, as all of us do. i sympathize for his loss, but life goes on, & his past does not disappear.
  • 12-04-2019
    Pmrmusic26
    I think AVA is amazing and will continue to purchase their products. Craig's a solid guy. I think most people that call him are not smart enough to navigate a conversation with him. I think most people can't handle him emotionally and get caught up in their feelings haha. He's very honest and straight forward. His heart is always in the right place with the products he supplies. He has alot of knowledge and dedicates times to people...even if you don't buy his products. There is no such thing as 100% perfect products or customer service.....look at Fox/rockshox....GRIP2 damper LOL (Get Real Its Phony 2) damper!.....wait did they release an update to their damper because the knobs did nothing? hmmm.
  • 12-04-2019
    KenDobson
    I had a great experience with Craig, and the products he delivered are what he explained and perform as I wanted. Pretty sure that is a solid experience. I have had Push stuff in the past along with custom in house Fox stuff. AVA has been equal or better in my opinion. My 10 cents