130mm Forks, forks and more Forks..a few questions- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    New question here. 130mm Forks, forks and more Forks..a few questions

    I'm about to buy a Ellsworth Moment and I've been torturing myself on what fork to put on it.
    So far I'm considering the Marzocchi AM SL & AM 1, Fox Talas, Float or Vanilla.
    The AM1 is butt ugly brown and i'm enough of a weenie where this will bother me if i can find a comparable fork that looks better. ((black frame))

    The SL looks decent but it has dual air chambers. Not sure if I should stick w/ spring seeing I'm going w/ the Fox DHX.

    Plus how much does changing temp and humidity affect the air chambers and ride characteristics.
    I live in CT so weather varies greatly month to month day to day.
    I've also heard setting up the SL can be a pain in the ass.

    I'm also looking for stable platform.
    Any one have any input or suggestions on which fork they prefer and why and which platform air/air, air/coil, coil?

    Intended use is All MT riding. A little degree of everything.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Green Thumb!
    So far I'm considering the Marzocchi AM SL & AM 1, Fox Talas, Float or Vanilla.
    The AM1 is butt ugly brown
    looks more like urine-yellow to me.

    fortunatly for me, I don't care what color it is.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    looks more like urine-yellow to me.

    fortunatly for me, I don't care what color it is.

    Thanks for detailed reply

    Anyone else have something constructive to say?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Green Thumb!
    I'm about to buy a Ellsworth Moment and I've been torturing myself on what fork to put on it.
    So far I'm considering the Marzocchi AM SL & AM 1, Fox Talas, Float or Vanilla.
    The AM1 is butt ugly brown and i'm enough of a weenie where this will bother me if i can find a comparable fork that looks better. ((black frame))

    The SL looks decent but it has dual air chambers. Not sure if I should stick w/ spring seeing I'm going w/ the Fox DHX.

    Plus how much does changing temp and humidity affect the air chambers and ride characteristics.
    I live in CT so weather varies greatly month to month day to day.
    I've also heard setting up the SL can be a pain in the ass.

    I'm also looking for stable platform.
    Any one have any input or suggestions on which fork they prefer and why and which platform air/air, air/coil, coil?

    Intended use is All MT riding. A little degree of everything.

    Thanks
    Personally, I prefer coil shocks to air shocks on a bike with that much travel. If you decide to get an air shock, I recommend that you get soemthing that doesn't have pos and neg pressures. They can be a pain to dial in.

    As far as temperature affecting air shocks.....it depends. Temperature has a linear relationship with pressure and volume. Double the temperature and the pressure doubles as long as the volume remains constant. It's not as bad as it sounds because the temperature is measured in degrees Kelvin.

    A typical worst-case scenario (is there such a thing?). For example: You get your bike ready to go while still in your warm, 70* F home. Outside, the temperature is 0 degrees F.

    When the shock (air in the shock) cools down to the outside temperature (0 F), the pressure will be approx 16% lower than it was at 70 degrees F. That could be an issue if you run into situations like that often, but that's pretty extreme.

    About stable platform. Again...just my opinion, but I have not tried a stable platform fork that I liked, especially with a fork that has 5 or more inches of travel. Stable platform forks on racing bikes can be an advantage, but not on all-mountain / FR bikes.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Shorts
    Personally, I prefer coil shocks to air shocks on a bike with that much travel. If you decide to get an air shock, I recommend that you get soemthing that doesn't have pos and neg pressures. They can be a pain to dial in.

    As far as temperature affecting air shocks.....it depends. Temperature has a linear relationship with pressure and volume. Double the temperature and the pressure doubles as long as the volume remains constant. It's not as bad as it sounds because the temperature is measured in degrees Kelvin.

    A typical worst-case scenario (is there such a thing?). For example: You get your bike ready to go while still in your warm, 70* F home. Outside, the temperature is 0 degrees F.

    When the shock (air in the shock) cools down to the outside temperature (0 F), the pressure will be approx 16% lower than it was at 70 degrees F. That could be an issue if you run into situations like that often, but that's pretty extreme.

    About stable platform. Again...just my opinion, but I have not tried a stable platform fork that I liked, especially with a fork that has 5 or more inches of travel. Stable platform forks on racing bikes can be an advantage, but not on all-mountain / FR bikes.

    Thanks Blue Shorts, your input answered a few thoughts and helped me narrow my choice down.
    And thanks for explaining the air/temp relationship. I'm scientifically impaired
    It doesn't seem to make the difference I thought it might.
    Not sure I'm to keen on pumping a fork up and dealing with pump leakage.

  6. #6
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    Air temperature rises.

    Don't forget that the air temperature also rises inside the shock when it is compressed. So the pressure difference is probably even less in reality. The amounts would depend on how well the shock dissipates that heat. Personally I can notice the difference in my low pressure Marathon S where a measly 2 psi changes the behavior of the fork. With this fork I have to be sure to set the pressure considering the altitude as well!

  7. #7
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    Pump leakage not an issue.

    You shouldn't have to worry about pump leakage because a properly operating valve and pump don't leak any air at all when you remove the pump. Any air you hear leaking is simply air from the pump since it was pressurized too while you added air! The valve in the shock closes before the pump is removed. This is not always the case though. I had a Cane Creek Cloud 9 that had a valve with a pin that was too long. This caused the valve to remain open while I removed the pump. For most air shocks, if this is happening, it should be really obvious since you'll very quickly lose all the air from the shock before the pump is completely removed.

  8. #8
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    Forks with positive and negative being a pain to dial in is so not true. I have a Z1 SL and it was no harder getting the settings right on it than on anything else. How hard can it be to pump air in a fork and ride it. Those Marzocchi's are sweet, super adjustable, and mega plush.

  9. #9
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    Lots of good choices...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Green Thumb!
    I'm about to buy a Ellsworth Moment and I've been torturing myself on what fork to put on it.
    So far I'm considering the Marzocchi AM SL & AM 1, Fox Talas, Float or Vanilla.
    The AM1 is butt ugly brown and i'm enough of a weenie where this will bother me if i can find a comparable fork that looks better. ((black frame))

    The SL looks decent but it has dual air chambers. Not sure if I should stick w/ spring seeing I'm going w/ the Fox DHX.

    Plus how much does changing temp and humidity affect the air chambers and ride characteristics.
    I live in CT so weather varies greatly month to month day to day.
    I've also heard setting up the SL can be a pain in the ass.

    I'm also looking for stable platform.
    Any one have any input or suggestions on which fork they prefer and why and which platform air/air, air/coil, coil?

    Intended use is All MT riding. A little degree of everything.

    Thanks
    Guess it depends on your priorities. Sounds like you want adjustable based on the forks mentioned, which of course makes sense for an All Mountain bike. However, the Fox forks you mentioned of course are only 130mm as you know.

    Personally, though I do not own one, if I did have a Moment I would opt for an adjustable fork that allowed me to go to 6" when I wanted/needed it. If that were the case, it knocks out the Fox forks you have mentioned.

    It sounds like you are also going with a normal QR hub (not 20mm) based on the forks mentioned so that knocks out the RockShox Pike as an option. The Nixon sounds great (and it no ugly) but I am worried about what I have heard as it relates to the recall problems.....that knocked it off my list at least.

    As ugly as it may in fact be, I just purchased the Marz All Mountain 1.....referred to by some in color as "stucco". I had to work throught the ugly factor myself but at the end of my day, I realized that I truly have loved the Marz forks I have and curently do own and figured the ugly fork would match my face . I want to keep the bike with QR wheels. I wanted 6" travel for downhill section but wanted to retain the ability to have 5"....and when I really have long climbs, use ETA feature.

    For what it is worth, I am in the process of making my Ventana X-5 a bit more robust and part of that is dumping the Talas fork since I wanted the 6" option (putting 6" rocker on my bike this week). I like the Talas for sure but it sort of feels like it wallows in the travel and just feels like an air shock to me.....probably just psychological but perception is reality. Anyway, good luck.

    Cheers

  10. #10
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Guess it depends on your priorities.


    As ugly as it may in fact be, I just purchased the Marz All Mountain 1.....

    I like the Talas for sure but it sort of feels like it wallows in the travel and just feels like an air shock to me.....probably just psychological but perception is reality. Anyway, good luck.

    Cheers
    Yep, it depends on your priorities, and you and me seem to have suspension as our #1 priorities. My AM1 should get here this week hopefully.

    I have a friend that is looking for a fork in the adjustable 130-150 or just 130mm range to replace his TALAS. This gut has a lot of inside connections at fox, but he hates the talas because it is just way to linear, it dives on every impact, and it sounds like some of what you are describing is what he was complaining about. It just makes it impossible to ride through real tech sections because it's excessive, and upping the air pressure makes it ride like crap and not get full travel. He got an 05 vanilla RLC to replace it, but he's still looking for something else that will adjust to 150mm. Since the fox 36 is a TALAS fork, he's not so hot on that, but it may have some sort of progression designed into the damper, it's too early to say for sure yet.

  11. #11
    Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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    Priorities

    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    Yep, it depends on your priorities, and you and me seem to have suspension as our #1 priorities. My AM1 should get here this week hopefully.

    I have a friend that is looking for a fork in the adjustable 130-150 or just 130mm range to replace his TALAS. This gut has a lot of inside connections at fox, but he hates the talas because it is just way to linear, it dives on every impact, and it sounds like some of what you are describing is what he was complaining about. It just makes it impossible to ride through real tech sections because it's excessive, and upping the air pressure makes it ride like crap and not get full travel. He got an 05 vanilla RLC to replace it, but he's still looking for something else that will adjust to 150mm. Since the fox 36 is a TALAS fork, he's not so hot on that, but it may have some sort of progression designed into the damper, it's too early to say for sure yet.
    To me, Marz is the real deal and it just does not get any better which is why I went with the AM1. The Fox 36 is intriguing. However, I dont want to go with 20mm thru-axle with the Fox 36 which I think you have to do, dont you? While I had a 20mm on my Bullit, I am not sold that is would be helpful for "me" for anything but freeriding and/or downhilling and plus, I am trying to save coin for a short travel rig I am building up and dont want to fuss with a new hub or wheelset just to get a Fox 36 somewhere in the future. Talas forks have a good reputation but I honestly never felt that it was really robust in the rough stuff. It handled it but just never felt that great to me. I am really looking forward to the AM 1. Charles just shipped it today along with my new 6" rockers for the Ventana. I will likely go with a DHX 5.0 in the back and I think that will be a perfect setup for me.

    Cheers

  12. #12

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    Thanks all for the input. It looks like I'm going to go the M1 route.
    It seems the positives out weigh the negative.....
    I'll just have to deal with the baby crap yellow paint.
    Maybe after a year I'll strip and paint it a nice black w/ a gloss finish.

  13. #13
    Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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    You da man...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Green Thumb!
    Thanks all for the input. It looks like I'm going to go the M1 route.
    It seems the positives out weigh the negative.....
    I'll just have to deal with the baby crap yellow paint.
    Maybe after a year I'll strip and paint it a nice black w/ a gloss finish.
    I did not want to say it but you may then get kicked out of the Ellsworth fraternity just kidding of course.

    The color was definitely an odd choice but if you go with a black frame, i think it will actually look very cool personally. I actually think once on the bike, it will look much better. Look at it as a statement that you dont care what people think.

    In my mind, there just is no other fork in this class. Nixons are suspect at this point and air simply wont and possibly cant ever feel like coil or even as nice as shocks with one side coil. I also think you would have regretted to follow the advice to go Vanilla or Talas. Once the novelty of the new bike wore off, you would analyze things more closely and realize you should have gone with at least the option to adjust up to the 150mm. Good move with the Moment....shame otherwise with such a great frame just asking for the 6" travel for downhill.

    However, I think if I were starting from scratch I may actually consider the new Firefly. I cant remember if the new ones have QR dropouts or only thru-axles. If I did not already have a wheelset I would have probably put a 20mm on the front. I really like the feel of Fireflys and the new ones adjust to 150mm and with the Ti springs, only weigh 5 lbs. This would be a great option as well....depending on wheelset/hub preference.

    Cheers

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