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  1. #1
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    Tallboy 4

    Does anyone have any news?

    What do people want out the bike?

    Amid all of the speculation threads, I have not seen a whisper about a new Tallboy. Personally, I'm more excited about this bike (if it happens) than any others.. I am really liking the idea of these new short travel rippers like the SB100. Light, fast bikes that with proper line choice, can ride basically anything a Bronson can. Thinking something like the SB100, but with a 110r, 130f, a trail build and VPP of course.

    I imagine the Hightower will slot in around 130-140 rear travel and there won't be an LT version anymore, so the Tallboy could really shine.

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    Replying to my own thread...

    I've been looking at Tallboy 3's recently, hence the interest in a possible TB4. Sounds like some folks are overforking their TB3's with some success. I guess my thought is whether I should look at getting a TB3 frame and overforking it or if we expect to see essentially that bike, but more refined, coming in 2019.

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    I am curious as well. Had a chance to demo a TB3 in Brevard and loved it. Also rode a Hightower and it seemed like a bit too much bike for how and where I ride. Recently there have been some great deals on Hightowers, but not quite as good on the Tallboy (not in my size at least). My guess is that the TB4 will be 120R/130F. Very close to the T429 without superboost. This will keep it from overlapping the Blur trail build. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with. Iím itching for something new...

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    Hereís when things got announced for trail bikes going back as far as the last time they did an April 1st release (Nomad v3, in 2014). This is just new models, not the color and build kit updates. Also not bothering to track the V10 or Stigmata or Jackal:
    Bronson and 5010 v3: July 3rd, 2018
    Blur 3: March 20th, 2018
    Hightower LT: July 16th, 2017
    Nomad 4: June 1st, 2017
    Tallboy 3: April 26th, 2016
    Hightower: Feb. 2nd, 2016
    Bronson 2 and 5010 2: Sept. 11th, 2015
    Santa Cruz Nomad 3: April 1st, 2014

    So it seems like all the 29ers are due for a 2019 update, except for the Blur. Figure with all the chatter and noise about the hypothetical long-travel 29er enduro race bike that the Tallboy release will be a bit later.

    27.5 bikes slot in pretty nicely with frame travel staggered by 20mm across 3 models, 130/150/170. With the Blur already sitting at 100 and the hypothetical long-travel 29er enduro race bike at 160, that leaves room for a Tallboy at 120 and a Hightower at 140.

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    I personally think that the current TB3 really punches above its class when it comes to capability. I have taken mine from all day 30+ mile rides to a couple of lift serve runs and it really held its own and this is the 29" wheel 120mm travel fork model.

    I think with a beefy wheel/tire combo and a 130mm fork you would basically have the bike you are asking for. Short of racing enduro or multiple dh days a year this bike handles everything.

  6. #6
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    My guess is yes, sometime this year we will have a new TB4 with steeper ST. (New school geo). My guess is 115-120 rear and 130 front. Probably be a great bike.

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    If they go the way a few other brands are, and put 2 bottle mounts in the triangle, my bank balance will be taking a big hit!

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    If this is the Santa Cruz 29er line-up...

    Blur
    Tallboy
    Hightower
    Megatower

    The safe bet seems to be...

    100mm
    120mm
    140mm
    160mm
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    If this is the Santa Cruz 29er line-up...

    Blur
    Tallboy
    Hightower
    Megatower

    The safe bet seems to be...

    100mm
    120mm
    140mm
    160mm
    I agree, and the Tallboy is the one I'm anxiously waiting for.
    I'm sure the new HT and Mega will be great and honestly I could probably ride the HT in my area but the Tallboy fits my terrain better.
    I have a Nomad4 set up for park days. :-)

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    I've had my TB3 for almost 3 years now, and I still like it a lot. Mine is a 29er and I extended the fork to 130mm, and it works great for my terrain and riding style. I don't have the funds for a new bike anyway. However, I am considering upgrading my old XX1 11-speed drivetrain to the new 12-speed XTR.

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    As someone who's looking at getting a Tallboy. Should I wait for the next bike to be released? Or scoop one up this spring? I have a Bronson that I love, but am just becoming more a trail rider than a jump line sender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thmslilly View Post
    As someone who's looking at getting a Tallboy. Should I wait for the next bike to be released? Or scoop one up this spring? I have a Bronson that I love, but am just becoming more a trail rider than a jump line sender.
    Buy a current TB3 at a discount. It's a really versatile bike, and will send more than you think. Or, try a Hightower. I went from a Gen 1 Bronson and a TB3 to only riding the Hightower. It does everything for me that either of the other two did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thmslilly View Post
    As someone who's looking at getting a Tallboy. Should I wait for the next bike to be released? Or scoop one up this spring? I have a Bronson that I love, but am just becoming more a trail rider than a jump line sender.
    Is there anything that you want changed from the current bike? Do you want a little higher BB, 29x2.6 rear tire clearance, or a little longer wheelbase? If not, look at getting a deal on the current model. After all, no one here knows what the actual changes will be or how it will change the personality of the bike. Current model is pretty awesome as is.

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    We may see an updated rear triangle. I also agree with those suggesting 115-120 mm rear travel. I have been riding my TB3 as a plus and it has been great. I recently changed out the XO1 11 speed for XO1 12 speed. They shift about the same, I just wanted the lower gear for going up the the N Georgia mountains. I also would like to see a move from Level brakes to Guide. If shimano gets more 12 speed out there, we may see some of that too. I would also like to see SC dump the reverb for transfer droppers.
    2017 Santa Cruz Tallboy CC

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    My wants for a new tallboy.

    -Lower linkage driven shock with progressive leverage ratio in lieu of the regressive-linear-progressive hump that makes vpp3 wallow in it's travel so badly.
    -XL with 485mm Reach, 650 +/- ETT, 75.5 STA/67 HTA, 460 ST, 425-427 Chainstays
    -Metric shock and coil compatible, Non internal headset (never happening but I can dream) so I can put a -1.5 works head set in this thing and run it with a 65.5 HTA

    The current tallboy is a good enough bike, but it rides pretty much like a hightower with a smidge less travel. Really, there is no penalty for going with a hightower so the tallboy seems redundant to me. My biggest issue with it is the vpp3 setup which is wallowy on pedaling conditions, and rely's on too much chain tension to minimize the pedal bob and as such, has traction issues on loose, technical climbing.

    The changes I listed above should fix that. Basically, give me a vpp4 trance 29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    My wants for a new tallboy.

    -Lower linkage driven shock with progressive leverage ratio in lieu of the regressive-linear-progressive hump that makes vpp3 wallow in it's travel so badly.
    -XL with 485mm Reach, 650 +/- ETT, 75.5 STA/67 HTA, 460 ST, 425-427 Chainstays
    -Metric shock and coil compatible, Non internal headset (never happening but I can dream) so I can put a -1.5 works head set in this thing and run it with a 65.5 HTA

    The current tallboy is a good enough bike, but it rides pretty much like a hightower with a smidge less travel. Really, there is no penalty for going with a hightower so the tallboy seems redundant to me. My biggest issue with it is the vpp3 setup which is wallowy on pedaling conditions, and rely's on too much chain tension to minimize the pedal bob and as such, has traction issues on loose, technical climbing.

    The changes I listed above should fix that. Basically, give me a vpp4 trance 29.
    Never going to get a lower link driven shock.
    reach will probably be shorter as they have an XXL
    Should be metric, coil is not something tallboy owners want so I doubt it.
    non internal headset is a pipe dream.
    I would bet good money on 120 travel with the high tower at 140.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  17. #17
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    IMO, the Tallboy 3 doesnít get the love it deserves. Itís a great all around trail bike that lives up to much more than what itís suspension numbers show.
    2020 Ibis Ripley
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    2019 SC Bronson
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    Be interested to see if they come out with a TB4. Really like the TB3. Hopefully the colors are better!


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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    My wants for a new tallboy.

    -Lower linkage driven shock with progressive leverage ratio in lieu of the regressive-linear-progressive hump that makes vpp3 wallow in it's travel so badly.
    -XL with 485mm Reach, 650 +/- ETT, 75.5 STA/67 HTA, 460 ST, 425-427 Chainstays
    -Metric shock and coil compatible, Non internal headset (never happening but I can dream) so I can put a -1.5 works head set in this thing and run it with a 65.5 HTA

    The current tallboy is a good enough bike, but it rides pretty much like a hightower with a smidge less travel. Really, there is no penalty for going with a hightower so the tallboy seems redundant to me. My biggest issue with it is the vpp3 setup which is wallowy on pedaling conditions, and rely's on too much chain tension to minimize the pedal bob and as such, has traction issues on loose, technical climbing.

    The changes I listed above should fix that. Basically, give me a vpp4 trance 29.
    I am curious as to your remarks to a wollow in the rear. I may be wrong, but this is the first I have hear of someone discribe the rear that way. I am curious as to your weight, wheels, and shock set up. I had a 2014 Trek Fuel EX that had that feeling. I am not certain but I think the wheels had to do with that. I weigh between 165 and 175 geared up and have had no concernes as to a wollow in the rear end. I am on a CC frame with Enve 27.5+ wheels.

    As for the coil, very unlikely. As for the the suspension design and chain tension, many complain about bikes that use specific shock technology to fix this. Pick your poison i guess. Over the past five years I have had a 2014 Niner Rip 9, 2017 Fuel EX9, and now the TB3. The fuel uses the shock to help with pedaling. It is about preference. It sounds like the TB may not be for you. From my time on the bikes listed, your wish list would seem to make you a a good canidate for a Fuel. I was happy to sell the Fuel for the TB.

    I rented a HT while in Sedona this past fall. I have to agree it does ride similar to the TB.
    2017 Santa Cruz Tallboy CC

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    My biggest issue with it is the vpp3 setup which is wallowy on pedaling conditions, and rely's on too much chain tension to minimize the pedal bob and as such, has traction issues on loose, technical climbing.
    Curious- How much time do you have on VPP3 bikes? I ask because your feedback sounds like you are referring to older versions of VPP.

    Not flaming, just curious.

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    ^^^ yeah. That was my experience. New VPP with more horizontal lower link don't exhibit this effect, which I used to refer too as "droopy drawers".
    Do the math.

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    Yeah I've never found VPP3 to wallow like previous versions.

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    My TB1 was somewhat wallowy in the mid-stroke. I had the RP23 shock custom tuned by PUSH and then it was fine. I've been generally happy with the TB3 with the stock Fox DPS shock and haven't felt the need for any custom tuning. The one issue is that it doesn't handle fast chattery stuff very well, but I guess you can only expect so much from the limited travel.

    I have done a lot of work to the Fox 34 fork to get it to where I'm happy with it. I extended it from 120 to 130mm, had it custom tuned, and finally installed a Luftkappe air spring. But that's not a Santa Cruz Tallboy issue.

  24. #24
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    I've owned an n3, b2, tb3, ht (og), and htlt.

    They all exhibit this characteristic. The progressiveness of the travel does not start until after the sag point.
    This means that in/around the sag point +/-, they do not provide enough support meaning you have to up LSC (and to an extent HSC) damping to combat this issue. You can also attack this by running less sag then vpp3 really likes (< 30%) but that creates excessive harshness over high speed chatter (baby heads).
    Linkage Design: Santa Cruz

    I'm not saying they aren't great bikes, I've owned many of them. But after spending significant time on the new bronson and nomad, I can't go back to the lack of mid stroke support of the previous generation. I have my money on the new TB getting the lower linkage driven shock. I may be wrong about that (I very highly doubt it) but the new setup is too successful for them to not go after the tall boy and the 5010. Knowing the SC boys, that's the bike they all want to ride in santa cruz... short travel, progressive geo, progressive LR, jib machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    I may be wrong about that (I very highly doubt it)
    The notion was addressed in this interview with Josh Kissner when the Bronson and 5010 v3 came out. It seems clear that they were thinking along different lines 9 months ago than you are now. Of course, they may change their minds. Maybe they already have and we just haven't seen it yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbmaddux View Post
    The notion was addressed in this interview with Josh Kissner when the Bronson and 5010 v3 came out. It seems clear that they were thinking along different lines 9 months ago than you are now. Of course, they may change their minds. Maybe they already have and we just haven't seen it yet.
    Agreed, and that's how I understood it some months ago... recently, I've been told to expect different. We'll see for ourselves in 3-5 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    I've owned an n3, b2, tb3, ht (og), and htlt.

    They all exhibit this characteristic. The progressiveness of the travel does not start until after the sag point.
    This means that in/around the sag point +/-, they do not provide enough support meaning you have to up LSC (and to an extent HSC) damping to combat this issue. You can also attack this by running less sag then vpp3 really likes (< 30%) but that creates excessive harshness over high speed chatter (baby heads).
    Linkage Design: Santa Cruz

    I'm not saying they aren't great bikes, I've owned many of them. But after spending significant time on the new bronson and nomad, I can't go back to the lack of mid stroke support of the previous generation. I have my money on the new TB getting the lower linkage driven shock. I may be wrong about that (I very highly doubt it) but the new setup is too successful for them to not go after the tall boy and the 5010. Knowing the SC boys, that's the bike they all want to ride in santa cruz... short travel, progressive geo, progressive LR, jib machine.
    Completely agree with you on the VPP3. That's what made me go out and buy the N4 despite having a completely dialed N3. I found the N3 to ride to be the best of the VPP3 bikes, but with a coil shock.

    I just purchased the 5010v3 and it has amazing mid-stroke support now. You can tell they've tried to mimic what the've done with the N4. Very plush up to the sag point then super solid mid-stroke and very progressive end stroke. I'm actually very impressed with it. Given how good the new 5010 feels I'd be surprised if they went with the lower linkage driven shock for the TB4. We'll see soon I hope.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Completely agree with you on the VPP3. That's what made me go out and buy the N4 despite having a completely dialed N3. I found the N3 to ride to be the best of the VPP3 bikes, but with a coil shock.

    I just purchased the 5010v3 and it has amazing mid-stroke support now. You can tell they've tried to mimic what the've done with the N4. Very plush up to the sag point then super solid mid-stroke and very progressive end stroke. I'm actually very impressed with it. Given how good the new 5010 feels I'd be surprised if they went with the lower linkage driven shock for the TB4. We'll see soon I hope.
    Everytime I read this it makes me want a V3, it always sounds like just what the V1 is lacking, otherwise I love it!
    5010v3 @mikerides.mtb

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    I want 115 in the back, I think we're getting 120.

    Iscg mounts,I was really bummed tb 3 didn't have these.
    Last edited by zootsuitbass; 04-18-2019 at 11:22 PM.

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    Awesome to hear a new Tallboy may be on the horizon. I have owned 2 and ridden all generations, a lot. In my biased opinion, every new Tallboy that is released is the best 29er trail/xc bike on the market at the time of release. Each generation has been a lot different, yet always better, so super pumped to see what the SC guys may roll out with. I can feel my wallet getting lighter as I write this.

    Some on this thread are comparing Tallboys to Hightowers. I want to say there is a big difference in the way a Tallboy rides vs. the way a Hightower rides. I don't think they are similar bikes. The Tallboy climbs like a mtn goat. The Hightower climbs like a monster truck. The Hightower bombs through anything on descents. The Tallboy you need to pick your descent line with a bit more thought.

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    A TB4 would be great. I actually went from aTB1 to a Hightower (sent up a bit more XCish). I actually feel the HT climbs better that the TB1 and is just a couple pounds heavier. And so much more fun on the down. Leaving for Moab with it tomorrow and even race endurance events on it and should shed some more weight with a set of SRD Podium wheels. All in all itís a very capable one quiver bike. I expect an updated Tallboy could even be better. Also with a new Ripley coming out any day, a redesigned Tallboy only makes sense from a competitive view

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    I'm having a hard time deciding if I should wait for TB4 or new Ripley or just pick up the Giant Trance 29 now. Its on sale but it ends May 5th. Really would like to see what the new bikes are but love a good sale lol

  33. #33
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    Ripley Will be here next week if you pull the trigger fast enough to get one of the first batch. It will pedal better and be lighter with an identical build. He who hesitates waits for MONTHS.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    My Tallboy 1 with a -2 degree angleset, dropper, and 2016 Monarch RT3 is pretty close to a TB3, and I really like it for everything from XC to some sketchy PNW down hill trails. I want something new this summer, but waiting to see if the TB4 is even more evolved (slacker, steeper ST, or what), the new HT is what we expect it to be, or if the MT is really just the bike to get this year.

    The 67.5 degree head angle I've got now really transformed the bike. It let me put another ~10 psi in the fork at the same sag, among other things. I had no idea how much the 70-71 degree stock arrangement was holding it back. Of course back in 2011 the idea was 29'ers needed a really steep HT to make up for the big front wheel, and that's what we were all buying.

    I don't necessarily want a 66 degree Tallboy and don't feel like it needs a drastically steeper STA, but a 67-68 degree HTA with a better VPP with 120mm of rear suspension would be pretty close to a perfect bike.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Ripley Will be here next week if you pull the trigger fast enough to get one of the first batch. It will pedal better and be lighter with an identical build. He who hesitates waits for MONTHS.
    Ripley is supposed to come out tomorrow. Interested to see what it is


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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorwind View Post
    Ripley is supposed to come out tomorrow. Interested to see what it is


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    Images and geo have leaked. There were some posts in the speculation thread in the Ibis forum the other day, though maybe theyíve been taken down. It looks good.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Images and geo have leaked. There were some posts in the speculation thread in the Ibis forum the other day, though maybe theyíve been taken down. It looks good.
    Iím keeping an eye on that tread as well


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    Well bought a Trance 29 today. Hope the TB4 has some real ugly colors haha


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    The Trance is a good looking bike for a big brand like Giant. The new Ripley is a pretty fine example of what I'd like to see from a revamped Tallboy...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    The Trance is a good looking bike for a big brand like Giant. The new Ripley is a pretty fine example of what I'd like to see from a revamped Tallboy...
    Hopefully the TB4 will be close in weight to the new Ripley, which is only a bit over 5lbs...

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    The Trance is a good looking bike for a big brand like Giant. The new Ripley is a pretty fine example of what I'd like to see from a revamped Tallboy...
    I agree about the tallboy. That Ripley looks pretty good!


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    Listening to a podcast today and heard mention of one of the hosts in Moab last week riding with Santa Cruz. My guess is a media event for a new bike. So we may be hearing something soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRT View Post
    Listening to a podcast today and heard mention of one of the hosts in Moab last week riding with Santa Cruz. My guess is a media event for a new bike. So we may be hearing something soon.

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    They need to hurry up with this! I've been waiting and all these killer, short-travel bikes are coming out....Let's go SC!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRT View Post
    Listening to a podcast today and heard mention of one of the hosts in Moab last week riding with Santa Cruz. My guess is a media event for a new bike. So we may be hearing something soon.

    No Doubt a "Path Podcast" listener
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    Hightower will be released before Tallboy.

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    I was in Santa Cruz last week to test ride the MegaTower. I own a TB3 and asked how many more years they had on the bike. They said the bike isn't going anywhere and to expect some exciting stuff in the near future.

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    Ha ha! You guessed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by jn24uk View Post
    No Doubt a "Path Podcast" listener

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBRT View Post
    Ha ha! You guessed it.
    Love them and the JRA guys. Also dabble with New England Dirt and The MTB Podcast. They make the commute a lot more interesting.

  50. #50
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    New TB4 AND Hightower coming in the next few months. TB4 will be upper-link driven VPP and Hightower lower-link. 120R/130F and 140R/150F respectively....wonít be long

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    Quote Originally Posted by WATERBOOY View Post
    Love them and the JRA guys. Also dabble with New England Dirt and The MTB Podcast. They make the commute a lot more interesting.
    Same, Those are my 4 goto podcasts, also Singletracks
    2020 Ibis Ripley (Incoming)

    2019 Giant Revolt Advanced 2

  52. #52
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    Same here, listen to all the MB radio podcasts. Except gravel radio, donít ride gravel. But yeah great stuff for the commute.
    Quote Originally Posted by WATERBOOY View Post
    Love them and the JRA guys. Also dabble with New England Dirt and The MTB Podcast. They make the commute a lot more interesting.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCJG View Post
    New TB4 AND Hightower coming in the next few months. TB4 will be upper-link driven VPP and Hightower lower-link. 120R/130F and 140R/150F respectively....wonít be long
    Is it from a reliable source?

  54. #54
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    Yeah... Is it from a reliable source?

  55. #55
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    It's the internet, everything is a reliable source...

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldschoolTD View Post
    Yeah... Is it from a reliable source?
    Yes

  57. #57
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    From the Santa Cruz facebook group, this was posted:

    https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...64&oe=5D68D89B

    But that could just mean in the near immediate future. Like, next week or two ...

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    From the Santa Cruz facebook group, this was posted:

    https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...64&oe=5D68D89B

    But that could just mean in the near immediate future. Like, next week or two ...
    I dunno man. Usually, if there's a change coming, there's something like: "just hang on for a bit longer" or a "we can't really comment, but I think you'll be surprised in the coming XXXX"

    That comment is usually used in conjunction with "only color changes for this MY" and "updating component spec only."

    That comment has me looking harder at the Ripley and Ryve.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorwind View Post
    Well bought a Trance 29 today. Hope the TB4 has some real ugly colors haha


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    Same! I hope the hightower has ugly color too cause I just bought a yeti yesterday. Got too impatient waiting haha

    j/k I'm sure the new hightower will be an awesome bike

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzznz View Post
    Same! I hope the hightower has ugly color too cause I just bought a yeti yesterday. Got too impatient waiting haha

    j/k I'm sure the new hightower will be an awesome bike
    Pretty high chance that it will be an ugly color lol.

    Iím interested to see the new TB and
    HT.


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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCJG View Post
    TB4 will be upper-link driven VPP ...120R/130F
    I always love seeing what SC's next big thing is, but this doesn't sound all that different from my upper-link driven VPP 110R/130F TB3. A little extra rear travel is always nice, but if it comes at a penalty in weight or climbing efficiency I wouldn't consider it much of an improvement.

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    I dont like the sounds of that. I sold my TB3 a couples months ago with expectation of a new one coming out this spring/summer.
    Im currently without a trail bike. Luckily I have a fatbike that I have been able to get out on but its not nearly as fun.
    With that comment I might be looking else where.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    I dont like the sounds of that. I sold my TB3 a couples months ago with expectation of a new one coming out this spring/summer.
    .
    What were your expectations for the TB4? New one will have similar travel with more modern geo.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikericci View Post
    What were your expectations for the TB4? New one will have similar travel with more modern geo.
    My expectation was a TB4.
    If you read the link in post 57 it sounds like there will not be a TB4.

    (In the immediate future anyway)

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikericci View Post
    What were your expectations for the TB4? New one will have similar travel with more modern geo.
    Yes. This is exactly my expectations. TB3 is to TB4 as RipleyLS is Ripley4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    If you read the link in post 57 it sounds like there will not be a TB4.(In the immediate future anyway)
    But this was my thought about #57 too.
    Last edited by smartyiak; 05-10-2019 at 11:41 AM.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    My expectation was a TB4.
    If you read the link in post 57 it sounds like there will not be a TB4.

    (In the immediate future anyway)
    I see it now, misunderstood what you meant. Iím waiting for a TB4, thatís disappointing. Maybe Iíll get a gravel bike instead

  67. #67
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    I think there's too much weight being given on the Insta post by SC. They're not going to torpedo current stock by saying the TB4 is coming soon. Besides the TB3...when they were out of TB2's and hadn't gotten the molds/production up and running, have they EVER said an updated model is on the way when they still had current stock?
    I'm looking forward to regretting this.......

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    Exactly. If there was no TB4 this year, they would absolutely say, no changes except colors. Also didn't say "near future." They said immediate future, which can later be construed to mean, "these next couple of weeks."

    Kinda tells me there is a good chance there is a new TB. Maybe later this summer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Exactly. If there was no TB4 this year, they would absolutely say, no changes except colors. Also didn't say "near future." They said immediate future, which can later be construed to mean, "these next couple of weeks."

    Kinda tells me there is a good chance there is a new TB. Maybe later this summer?
    There is according to a top SC dealer i know - itís being redesigned


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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyspoke View Post
    I think there's too much weight being given on the Insta post by SC. They're not going to torpedo current stock by saying the TB4 is coming soon. Besides the TB3...when they were out of TB2's and hadn't gotten the molds/production up and running, have they EVER said an updated model is on the way when they still had current stock?
    The current TB is completely outdated


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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    The current TB is completely outdated


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    You speak truth.

    Plus I donít feel the v3 was an improvement. The first versions blurred the line between litetrail and xc depending on the build and nothing was like that for the time. Just awesome. The V3 isnít beefy enough to be a trail bike but to clunky for XC. And for geez sake they need to pick a wheel size and design for that. Just my 2 cent. Thx


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  72. #72
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    With the Blur TR available, and say a 130mm rear/140 front new high tower, would you need a tallboy in the lineup?
    5010v3 @mikerides.mtb

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    Not even a little. How about 130/120 with frame close to the weight of the blur?


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    New HT is imminent. TB a touch longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoi525 View Post
    New HT is imminent. TB a touch longer.
    How imminent?

    Really, how close??

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqmike View Post
    With the Blur TR available, and say a 130mm rear/140 front new high tower, would you need a tallboy in the lineup?
    Maybe not. Odds are the new HT will be 140/150 though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by distortion10 View Post
    You speak truth.

    Plus I donít feel the v3 was an improvement. The first versions blurred the line between litetrail and xc depending on the build and nothing was like that for the time. Just awesome. The V3 isnít beefy enough to be a trail bike but to clunky for XC. And for geez sake they need to pick a wheel size and design for that. Just my 2 cent. Thx


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    I actually think the Tallboy3 was a huge improvement over the past Tallboy. My wife and I both own Tallboy3's with 130 forks, 2.6" front and 2.4" rear tires, and solid builds that come in right at 27 lbs with platform pedals. We also both used to own the original Tallboy. Mine had a 120 Pike, works 1.5 degree headset, I drilled the frame for a dropper and had an Avalanche tuned rear shock. It was a great bike that was ahead of its time, but the new one runs circles around it.

    I actually strayed form SC and had originally bought a Ripley LS - great bike but too high maintenance for me. Went back to SC.

    I do think a 120R/130F Tallboy with some updates would be rad, and I am loving my current Tallboy for all but the gnarliest terrain.

    Cheers,
    -A
    Disclaimer: I'm a fan-boi for Jenson USA.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by distortion10 View Post
    You speak truth.

    Plus I donít feel the v3 was an improvement.
    Quote Originally Posted by onlyontwo View Post
    I actually think the Tallboy3 was a huge improvement over the past Tallboy.

    I do think a 120R/130F Tallboy with some updates would be rad, and I am loving my current Tallboy for all but the gnarliest terrain.

    Cheers,
    -A
    I think it depends on how you look at it. I think TB3 was a big improvement for a "trail bike"...but a poor replacement for an XC bike...but that's why they made the Blur.

    The TB3 is a much better trail bike than a TB2 and the Blur is a much better XC race bike than than the TB2.

    It'll be interesting to see how SC positions the TB4 between the new HT and the Blur...will it be a beefier, long-low Smuggler/Following type deal that crosses into HT territory OR will it be a slimmer, updated "marathon" type bike that duels with the Scott Spark, Spot Ryve, and possibly crosses with the Blur in some situations.

  79. #79
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    Maintenance

    Quote Originally Posted by onlyontwo View Post
    I actually think the Tallboy3 was a huge improvement over the past Tallboy. My wife and I both own Tallboy3's with 130 forks, 2.6" front and 2.4" rear tires, and solid builds that come in right at 27 lbs with platform pedals. We also both used to own the original Tallboy. Mine had a 120 Pike, works 1.5 degree headset, I drilled the frame for a dropper and had an Avalanche tuned rear shock. It was a great bike that was ahead of its time, but the new one runs circles around it.

    I actually strayed form SC and had originally bought a Ripley LS - great bike but too high maintenance for me. Went back to SC.

    I do think a 120R/130F Tallboy with some updates would be rad, and I am loving my current Tallboy for all but the gnarliest terrain.

    Cheers,
    -A
    What maintenance issues did you have with the Ripley LS? Considering the new Ripley as my next bike (coming off a SC Tallboy 2, which has been maintenance-free). Thanks in advance.

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    Playing with the idea of getting short travel 29er trail bike as a second bike. Really like the new Ibis Ripley, but first i'll wait till the new Tallboy will come out, my guess they will be similar...

  81. #81
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    The new stigmata is out today so new SC bikes are happening


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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyontwo View Post
    I actually think the Tallboy3 was a huge improvement over the past Tallboy. My wife and I both own Tallboy3's with 130 forks, 2.6" front and 2.4" rear tires, and solid builds that come in right at 27 lbs with platform pedals. We also both used to own the original Tallboy. Mine had a 120 Pike, works 1.5 degree headset, I drilled the frame for a dropper and had an Avalanche tuned rear shock. It was a great bike that was ahead of its time, but the new one runs circles around it.

    I actually strayed form SC and had originally bought a Ripley LS - great bike but too high maintenance for me. Went back to SC.

    I do think a 120R/130F Tallboy with some updates would be rad, and I am loving my current Tallboy for all but the gnarliest terrain.

    Cheers,
    -A
    Similar situation here. I had a TB1 and liked it overall, especially after I had the shock custom tuned by PUSH. I got a TB3 (29er) about 3 years ago when they came out, and I still like it a lot. I wanted the longer reach and shorter chainstays, but I wasn't sure that I wanted the slacker head angle, but I actually think the geometry is about perfect for me. I had the fork extended to 130mm and installed a Luftkappe. I run the chip in the high position, which along with the 130mm fork and 29er tires gives me the stock geometry but raises the bottom bracket a bit so I get fewer pedal strikes.

    Overall the TB3 seems pretty perfect for the type of trail riding I do. It has a great balance of climbing ability, playfulness, and rough trail capability. The one area where it's lacking is in high speed chunky stuff, but you can only expect so much from a short travel bike. I'd actually love to have a second enduro-type bike for those conditions, something like a Nomad or Bronson.

    My 3 year old SRAM 11-speed drivetrain is getting worn, and I'd like to upgrade it, but otherwise I'm still very happy with my TB3.

  83. #83
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    I pulled the trigger a bit early on my 5010c four years ago but its been good to me. I'm thinking that as I get older, 29" wheels might be nice or 27+ (i.e. Chameleon).

    Anyway, the current Tallboy is attractive and having bought and fell in love with a Cannondale CAAD 12 Ultegra road bike after a decade on a carbon roadie, I would hope a new Tallboy would still offer the aluminum frame because, except for an extra pound, I no longer see the need for the cost of carbon.

    PS: My aluminum CAAD 12 actually weights 2 pounds less than my old carbon bike with full Ultegra and gets me a road bike around 16.8 lbs. which was my target.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakabra View Post
    What maintenance issues did you have with the Ripley LS? Considering the new Ripley as my next bike (coming off a SC Tallboy 2, which has been maintenance-free). Thanks in advance.
    Hey Shakabra,

    I think they actually solved all my issues with the new version of the Ripley. It is actually something Ibis didn't talk much about in the launch. The old version of the LS had the shock mount to the yoke with a custom bolt that had no bushing or anything between the shock and the yoke. It constantly creaked, popped, groaned and made a bunch of noise. I did the Stan's tape trick and it helped immensely. Just seemed nuts to have to do a "hack" on a 3k frame. Also the eccentrics needed to be cleaned regularly.

    The new one looks great and solves all my issues with the bike.

    Cheers,
    -A
    Disclaimer: I'm a fan-boi for Jenson USA.

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    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqmike View Post
    With the Blur TR available, and say a 130mm rear/140 front new high tower, would you need a tallboy in the lineup?
    Yes, I had a blur tr and for a XC race bike it was very capable but it wasnít a very ďfunĒ bike. I built my Tallboy 3 because I got the frame dirt cheap. I found the Tallboy to be close to as fast as the blur, but way more fun and actually faster on rougher XC trails.
    2016 Hightower
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorwind View Post
    I'm having a hard time deciding if I should wait for TB4 or new Ripley or just pick up the Giant Trance 29 now. Its on sale but it ends May 5th. Really would like to see what the new bikes are but love a good sale lol
    I'm having a hard time deciding if I should wait for TB4 or new Ripley or just pick up the Giant Trance 29 now. Its on sale but it ends May 5th. Really would like to see what the new bikes are but love a good sale lol

    Do not overlook new Salsa Spearfish. It may be bike with the best pedaling efficiency and durability in light trail category, but the frame is probably on the heavier side .

  88. #88
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    TB4 will be a good bike, but VPP is not as good as DW and the Ripley will have a lighter/stiffer frame. The giant trance is not in the same league with it's rear suspension or overall stiffness.
    I'm also not a fan of the non replaceable headset cups on the santa cruz bikes.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark85 View Post
    Do not overlook new Salsa Spearfish. It may be bike with the best pedaling efficiency and durability in light trail category, but the frame is probably on the heavier side .
    I demo'd one today and it was a rocket. Holy smokes. Really enjoyed it. Moreso than the Horsethief I also rode today. That said, SC is a fantastic company and I cannot wait to see what they do with the TB. Perhaps the Blur and Spearfish are better matched though. Wanna ride a Blur now haha.


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    Its June tomorrow and I cant believe that there's still no word on a new Tallboy.
    So bummed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    tuned by PUSH.
    R.I.P. PUSH. (Unless you want an Eleven6). Who does the tuning now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by newportl View Post
    R.I.P. PUSH. (Unless you want an Eleven6). Who does the tuning now?
    Dirt Labs and Avalanche are the companies I know of. Iíve only used Dirt Labs and they have done great work.


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    Bike will be out THIS month of June - thank me later.


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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    Bike will be out THIS month of June - thank me later.


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    How you know? Worth the wait...or just get the Top Fuel?

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    I think weíve all owned a Trek - Iím done with them - no hate , just done.

    Called a store in X state that told me to wait on everything.




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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    Bike will be out THIS month of June - thank me later.
    August is what other sources say.

    120mm, lower link VPP that is ďperfectedĒ.

    I hope the colors are better than recent offerings. I have not seen many SC frames that I like the look/ colors since they went gloss.

    Frankly the Ripley black/gray may win based on performance and looks.
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    Colors are deep purple (nearly black) and a very bright yellow/green.

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    Did you see/hear anything about the geo numbers? Where is it gonna stand with other modern trail bikes?

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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by RxBike View Post
    ... and a very bright yellow/green.
    Same as first year HTLT (aka Wicklow green) ?? Or more like Tennis ball yellow (1st year Bronson)?

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
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    Was really hoping to check out the new tallboy but those colors might be too much for me ..

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    Deleting comment. (Was asked to)
    Last edited by RxBike; 06-24-2019 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Was asked to delete

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by RxBike View Post
    Colors are deep purple (nearly black) and a very bright yellow/green.
    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Was really hoping to check out the new tallboy but those colors might be too much for me ..
    Soooo....Barney(ish) colors?
    Quote Originally Posted by RxBike View Post
    I saw them over FaceTime, and I was drunk..
    I'm hoping its more of a green then and not tennis ball yellow. Purple might be nice though.

    Edit: If this bike is available with a 140mm fork and 120mm rear travel I'd consider getting it over the new hightower. But I am getting antsy about just waiting for the future hightower so I am not sure I can wait until August for a new Tallboy launch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Was really hoping to check out the new tallboy but those colors might be too much for me ..
    Yellow one its actually kinda cool, like a dijon mustard color.
    Plus new TB4 is a freaking animal, Geo rocks! lots of people going to be happy with it, pretty much the same as the Mega T and the new HT2.
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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    Bike will be out THIS month of June - thank me later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    August is what other sources say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo99 View Post
    Flip Chip, 120R,130F. Lower link shock VPP. Size M: HTA 65.5 , ST 76.3, Reach 450
    Man...hope it comes sooner rather than later. New Top Fuel...and I'm going to Dirtragfest. So many good bikes and I can't wait around forever.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo99 View Post
    Yellow one its actually kinda cool, like a dijon mustard color.
    Plus new TB4 is a freaking animal, Geo rocks! lots of people going to be happy with it, pretty much the same as the Mega T and the new HT2.
    Flip Chip
    120R,130F. Lower link shock VPP. Size M: HTA 65.5 , ST 76.3, Reach 450
    Is the yellow similar to the existing mustard Hightower?

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo99 View Post
    Yellow one its actually kinda cool, like a dijon mustard color.
    Plus new TB4 is a freaking animal, Geo rocks! lots of people going to be happy with it, pretty much the same as the Mega T and the new HT2.
    Flip Chip
    120R,130F. Lower link shock VPP. Size M: HTA 65.5 , ST 76.3, Reach 450
    Yeah I'm good with dijon mustard. I'm hoping the deep purple almost black is basically black unless you're looking really close.

    Wondering about weight/efficiency. I have a bronson right now, was looking at Sniper/SB100. But if the new Ripley or TB4 can replace both bikes I'd do that in a heartbeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    Is the yellow similar to the existing mustard Hightower?
    I could say so, maybe a little bit less yellow and a bit more greenish and the SC logo comes in in a bright yellow color, I thought it was cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Yeah I'm good with dijon mustard. I'm hoping the deep purple almost black is basically black unless you're looking really close.

    Wondering about weight/efficiency. I have a bronson right now, was looking at Sniper/SB100. But if the new Ripley or TB4 can replace both bikes I'd do that in a heartbeat.
    I would say it looks more Dark Grey than purple

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Wondering about weight/efficiency. I have a bronson right now, was looking at Sniper/SB100. But if the new Ripley or TB4 can replace both bikes I'd do that in a heartbeat.
    High end Sniper builds come in a bit over 23 lbs and I think SB100's a bit more. I'd be pretty surprised if the new TB gets down anywhere close to this. The TB has been porking out a bit more with each iteration and I don't expect the trend to stop with the new longer travel version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wayold View Post
    High end Sniper builds come in a bit over 23 lbs and I think SB100's a bit more. I'd be pretty surprised if the new TB gets down anywhere close to this. The TB has been porking out a bit more with each iteration and I don't expect the trend to stop with the new longer travel version.
    That's what I was thinking but as long as it's not a pig, suspension design and vastly affect how something pedals. I expect it to weigh more than a Sniper for sure. That bike is super light for its geo. As a light rider, not a problem for me. But if the Tallboy comes in around the Sb100 and Ripley 4 weight that's good. Around 5lb without shock.

    But the TB3 I see is around 5.9lb with shock already. If it gains more ... we'll see lol. I'm not a weight weenie but since I already have the Bronson for burlier rides, I want my other bike to be a rocket but still handle smaller features so I don't get punished/beat up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    That's what I was thinking but as long as it's not a pig, suspension design and vastly affect how something pedals. I expect it to weigh more than a Sniper for sure. That bike is super light for its geo. As a light rider, not a problem for me. But if the Tallboy comes in around the Sb100 and Ripley 4 weight that's good. Around 5lb without shock.

    But the TB3 I see is around 5.9lb with shock already. If it gains more ... we'll see lol. I'm not a weight weenie but since I already have the Bronson for burlier rides, I want my other bike to be a rocket but still handle smaller features so I don't get punished/beat up.
    I bet it's going to be a competitive weight. Look what they did with the blur.

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    Would like to see the TB4 be like the ripley, 120 rear, and then do a 130 or even 140 fork.
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  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayold View Post
    High end Sniper builds come in a bit over 23 lbs and I think SB100's a bit more. I'd be pretty surprised if the new TB gets down anywhere close to this.
    Of course it won't, because it's not designed to fit that niche (if you want that sort of weight the Blur would be a better choice). But the trade-off for that weight is it probably would cover a pretty large chunk of what you'd get with a Bronson/Sniper quiver, and would only lose out to the other bikes towards the extremes of what they're good at. Up to you whether you'd prefer to choose from two bikes depending on the occasion, or happier with a "one bike to rule them all" type scenario.

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    Is there a flip chip? Room for 27+?

    This new TB really sounds what I've been hoping to get ever since i got my TB3. My only fear is the actual seat tube angle cos I have ridiculously long legs. Othervice it seems to address what I've been dreaming of: steeper seat tube, slacker front, longer reach, just a little more travel.

    Thats why i just bought a discounted 5010 frame as a replacement (i enjoy my plus wheels). Havent built it up yet so dont know how it differs from my TB3 with the same wheels. Probably will ride it untill TB4s gonna get discounted.

    To me i think a short travel aggressive geo trail bike is the one and i think for many others too even though they might not know i yet and people tend to over bike. Really happy Santa Cruz is finally making one and i hope there will be even more options in the near future.

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  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Of course it won't, because it's not designed to fit that niche (if you want that sort of weight the Blur would be a better choice). But the trade-off for that weight is it probably would cover a pretty large chunk of what you'd get with a Bronson/Sniper quiver, and would only lose out to the other bikes towards the extremes of what they're good at. Up to you whether you'd prefer to choose from two bikes depending on the occasion, or happier with a "one bike to rule them all" type scenario.
    Right - the Blur is the direct comparison to the SB100 or Sniper. Tallboy shouldn't be the same weight, it's not the 100/120 XC bike from Santa Cruz....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Affe View Post
    Is there a flip chip? Room for 27+?

    This new TB really sounds what I've been hoping to get ever since i got my TB3. My only fear is the actual seat tube angle cos I have ridiculously long legs. Othervice it seems to address what I've been dreaming of: steeper seat tube, slacker front, longer reach, just a little more travel.



    Thats why i just bought a discounted 5010 frame as a replacement (i enjoy my plus wheels). Havent built it up yet so dont know how it differs from my TB3 with the same wheels. Probably will ride it untill TB4s gonna get discounted.

    To me i think a short travel aggressive geo trail bike is the one and i think for many others too even though they might not know i yet and people tend to over bike. Really happy Santa Cruz is finally making one and i hope there will be even more options in the near future.

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    Yes flip chip, no to + sizes. Max tire width 2.5, 2.6 in L carbon frames and above.
    And if I remember right only Lo setting for big tires.

  117. #117
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    Why wouldn't there be 27+ sizes and a flip chip? The current model has that capability.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjc115 View Post
    Why wouldn't there be 27+ sizes and a flip chip? The current model has that capability.
    According to SC:


    ● Adjustable CS Length (carbon only)
    ● Simplicity. Eliminate 27.5 plus compatibility
    ● Double swingarm uprights
    ● Slacker/Longer. Lo setting for big tires.
    Hi setting for 2.3

    And Honestly plus size tires kinda suck. Industry moving away from them now that they are realizing they can't really market them.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo99 View Post
    According to SC:

    ● Adjustable CS Length (carbon only)
    ● Simplicity. Eliminate 27.5 plus compatibility
    Where was that taken from?
    If its legit, im surprised about the 27.5 plus compatibility.
    Guess we'll find out for sure next week.

  120. #120
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    The industry is shifting from 29rs being 275+ capable to 27.5 bikes with the capability to run 2.6 tires. I'm guessing most of the high performance brands will be ditching anything 2.8" in favor of 2.6. In that logic, the outside diameter of 2.6 tires, pairs better with a 27.5 frame and geometry then it does in a 29r frame.

  121. #121
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    Mid to late August for TB4 release per our local Santa Cruz rep yesterday (6/29).
    Expect 10 mm more travel front and rear and a Rockshox fork. VPP will follow the trend on the Megatower, Hightower (as of 7/2), Bronson, etc. Geometry will be slacker following recent trends.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    Mid to late August for TB4 release per our local Santa Cruz rep yesterday (6/29).
    Mid August according to the SC source I spoke to. July 2 for the Hightower, just in time for Sea Otter Canada.

    Pretty much all the info here and on the HT thread is accurate.

    PS, the Ripley is an amazing bike. If the Tallboy rivals it it will be hard to choose the HT, TB or Ripley.

  123. #123
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    Colors for all other models updated on the SC website, but not the Tallboy.


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    Was curious if the lower link 120mm rumor is true or not, I'm super curious how well or not well that would work. Being a heavier, the ripley's 120 felt too easy to blow through for me, on a bike I otherwise really liked.
    5010v3 @mikerides.mtb

  125. #125
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    I really hope this bike is not a heavy pig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I really hope this bike is not a heavy pig.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    Well the new Hightower gained a little weight, so I wouldn't be surprised if the TB does too. If it does too much, I see a TB3 or HT1 CC frame order in my future... 26-27lbs is my target weight.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by sns1294 View Post
    Well the new Hightower gained a little weight, so I wouldn't be surprised if the TB does too. If it does too much, I see a TB3 or HT1 CC frame order in my future... 26-27lbs is my target weight.
    I would most likely go with a Ripley if the TB is too heavy.

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  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqmike View Post
    Was curious if the lower link 120mm rumor is true or not, I'm super curious how well or not well that would work. Being a heavier, the ripley's 120 felt too easy to blow through for me, on a bike I otherwise really liked.
    I was told it isn't, the lower link part, when I had brought up how the HT had gained weight and said that wouldn't be good for the TB yesterday.

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    Hmmm, I was told it would be a lower link

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by AF2NR View Post
    I was told it isn't, the lower link part, when I had brought up how the HT had gained weight and said that wouldn't be good for the TB yesterday.
    No weight gain with the lower link you mean?

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    A couple observations from the new HT have me concerned about the new Tallboy. Biggest is the lack of tire clearance, stunning to me that HT didnít give us 2.6 clearance but instead some (not all) 2.5ís will fit. Competitors to The TB like pivot and ibis offer 2.6 clearance. Surely adjustable chainstay wonít be offered on the TB if it didnít make the HT, so I assume TB may not get a bump in clearance from the TB3. Then thereís the weight gain, as much as 2 lbs for the new HT vs OG HT. Is that all lower link driven? Really hope the rumors of a lower linkage for the TB are not true, not sure what SC is trying to achieve with 3 lower link 29ers. Was hoping new TB would essentially be a 29er 5010, not a mini-megatower. Finally, Iím not thrilled with all Rockshox, more personal preference than anything against Rockshox, but I would build from frame so may not be a big issue other than added cost of replacing the Shock. Anyway, am I off base with my concerns, any updated intel out there?

  132. #132
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    Lower link on the Tallboy4 seems to be a given from what I got from our SC rep last week. With the changes we discussed, the TB4 seems to be headed into the void left by the Hightower.

    This is only from discussions more centered on the coming (and now here) Hightower but he was saying if I liked the previous HT, I might want to consider the coming TB.

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    If itís really in fact lower link thatís a bummer, because surely it will weigh more than the outgoing model. And if itís in fact 130/120, why buy this over the lighter Ripley? I guess we will have to wait and see how it pedals.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    No weight gain with the lower link you mean?

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    The SC shop here said the TB would not have the lower link suspension and that was all he could tell me because of the NDA. According to Rev Bubba he seems to have gotten different information, except the part about the current HT being comparable to the new TB. Which would mean no lower link though since the HT just got it?

  135. #135
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    The lower link is one piece of info I can not confirm. The increase in travel front and rear and updated geometry seem accurate though.

    I got the info in the field from the rep after a few hours of riding on a hot morning and he was also talking to a woman seeking a bike more in the Blur/Tallboy range as opposed to me looking at the (then) new Hightower and Bronson. Only after the Hightower V2 arrived did I start to think the Tallboy V4 might fill the spot the old Hightower filled. It will be another two weeks before I can take the Hightower out on dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mluisgr81 View Post
    And if itís in fact 130/120, why buy this over the lighter Ripley?
    In the ~1 hour I spent on the Ripley I felt that it was fairly firm feeling, the bike was very fast but if SC can make the Tallboy a bit softer and more versatile then it may be a better light trailbike than the Ripley. We will find out soon it sounds like!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    Only after the Hightower V2 arrived did I start to think the Tallboy V4 might fill the spot the old Hightower filled.
    I am starting to think this too, although my current bike is a 130/125mm XC/ trail bike, similar to the supposed future tallboy, and I wish for more travel for everything. The old HT had just enough extra travel without going overkill, but the new one has bumped it up so that it is a lot, yet I don't know if 120mm is enough to make up for the old hightower. We will see what sort of magic SC works on the tallboy, but you may be right.

  137. #137
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    If the TB4 comes with a Rockshox fork, they are easy enough to change out so you can go from 130mm to 140mm. I did that on the Pike my 5010 V1 came with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    If the TB4 comes with a Rockshox fork, they are easy enough to change out so you can go from 130mm to 140mm. I did that on the Pike my 5010 V1 came with.
    Is it costly to do a conversion? I said too with the Ripley that it would be sweet with a 140 fork and I think a tallboy redesign with a 140 fork would be great. I thought such a combo would be awkward and weird until I rode a transition smuggler (140f/120r 29er) and found that the combo actually worked great! Unfortunately that bike did not fit me well otherwise I might have taken one for a second demo ride.

    Despite the 120mm rear, a 140/120 tallboy with the new lower link suspension would be a great trail bike that is capable of almost anything and I'd consider one over the new hightower.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Is it costly to do a conversion?
    The new airshaft should cost you around 30$

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo99 View Post
    Yellow one its actually kinda cool, like a dijon mustard color.
    Plus new TB4 is a freaking animal, Geo rocks! lots of people going to be happy with it, pretty much the same as the Mega T and the new HT2.
    Flip Chip
    120R,130F. Lower link shock VPP. Size M: HTA 65.5 , ST 76.3, Reach 450
    Can you tell whether these angles are in the low or high setting? Hoping this is in low and that the HTA is a little less slack than with the Hightower? If in low then I guess it will be a HTA of 65.8 in high? Even than I think a real big jump from the Blur to the Tallboy.

    And can you confirm it will be a lower link VPP?, the latest posts are also suggesting it could not be. At least I hope they don't increase the weight of the Tallboy extremely in that it will weigh more than the "old" Hightower. Any information on that? I am okay with a little heavier that the current Tallboy but a lower links looks like it could make it way heavier although this would be nicely low in the middle.

    Really curious since for me the new Hightower has gone a bit too far with slackening, travel and weight increasing. I also want it to climb well on not technical steep climbs (I live in the Netherlands). The previous Hightower looked a pretty good balance between climbing and descending. But of course I prefer a newer bike and I really like the long reach also because of my 6 foot 6 and want to increase confidence in descending when in the mountains instead of the flat roads in the Netherlands although we also have some nice mountainbike tracks ;-)

    Hope you can give a bit more information whether the new Tallboy will be worth the wait. Thanks!

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    I am with gerard here on the TB HT angle but more important a 76.3 STA is too steep for me given my Ripley experience--cramps the cockpit and puts too much pressure on the hands--feels like the new geo is getting a bit much on shorter travel bikes---Pivot T429 looking better for me as more bikes are released---but we will see---not in any rush

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    I am with gerard here on the TB HT angle but more important a 76.3 STA is too steep for me given my Ripley experience--cramps the cockpit and puts too much pressure on the hands--feels like the new geo is getting a bit much on shorter travel bikes---Pivot T429 looking better for me as more bikes are released---but we will see---not in any rush
    Do you think so?, I am not sure what size you are looking at. For the bigger sizes it will anyway be less, for example the M Hightower has 77.0 (so .7 more) going to 76.3 in XXL (high). So for me a bit more than 75 in XXL on the Tallboy sounds perfect.
    Anyway I always have difficulty in understanding how much it matters. For me personally my optimal seat position having my knee straight above the pedal axle when horizontal most of the times means that I need to sit further forward and that a setback seat post would not really work for me, but luckily the Rockshox Reverb has zero setback. Having a bit steeper seat tube angle for me would mean that I don't have to slide my saddle forward anymore, will probably get in the exact neutral position.
    And also with steep climbs you want to sit a bit further forward, so that you don't have to sit on the tip of your saddle too soon.

    But also in your case if your optimal position or just preference is more back you should at least be able to slide the saddle back in the rail a bit to get there again, which makes your effective seat angle less again and should be possible to get it to what you are used to?
    Additionally with the longer reach, even longer than the current Tallboy already is will at least partially compensate getting closer to the cockpit. Actually I had expected that they would have reduced the stem length a bit from 50mm to 40mm with the longer reach to not get too far from the cockpit but they didn't, well at least not for the Hightower.
    Or I am missing something that the seat tube angle of the frame has a big impact even when you move your saddle back a bit to stay in the same effective angle as on your previous bike?

    Anyway I think a little steeper certainly for the bigger sizes is a plus to not have too much weight on the rear wheel. By the way also there the adjustable chainstay length should help.

  143. #143
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    I think you're all looking at it wrong. Moving from a road bike to a TT bike is the same thing. What's really happening is the pedals move back, further under the saddle, rather than the saddle moving forward. ETT + stem are staying about the same but the shift moves the front axle out. So all thing being equal you should not feel "cramped."

    Whether people like having the cranks further aft outside of climbing, that's another question. 73 STA with a zero offset post has been pretty perfect alignment for me on the flats for years, so... I can see if on a big bike where I want a better climbing deal since a dropper makes it possible. Or in CA where a lot of the rides are long climbs and descents. Here on the East coast for a racer-chaser everyday bike on mostly flat to rolling...dunno.

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  144. #144
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    Someone on the forum who was about my height--6 foot---calculated the affect of a 1.5 degree steeper seat tube on seat tip to mid bar length at ride height-(real riding ETT)---as I recall it was well over an inch----my be a bit off here but the point was the STA getting steeper reduces this measurement.

    But this is why we see more than a few folks complain about being cramped sitting----reach does not come into play sitting---contrary to repeated posts--including the one above--only affects standing-- The new geo has ETT about the same as before but as the seat goes up it does not increase ETT as much-----so we see folks pushing the seat back or running a longer stem.

    All this seems to affect the longer legged and not those shorter or more normal. The longer the leg the more diff caused by the STA.

    Of course one can size up---and the bike may climb better but those are different topics

  145. #145
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    I am just trying to understand but not sure if I get everything.
    I would think what TXNavy is saying that ETT+stem are staying about the same so one would expect not to get cramped.
    However taking into account what pctloper is saying is that at ride height the effect of the steeper STA increases further and one can get over an inch closer to mid bar with a 1.5 degree steeper STA. So for that an unchanged ETT is not enough although should help.
    The reach and therefore the distance from BB to mid bar is about 0.6inch more on the new Tallboy (if in line with the new Hightower), so I would say also 0.6 inch less cramped in sitting position then when it would have been unchanged, which leaves about another 0.5inch extra to solve by stem or moving saddle backward for this amount.
    Am I missing something? If this is correct I would say not too extreme unless you already werenít in a neutral position.
    I would be ok with just moving my saddle 0.5inch backward when necessary, although it could be a bit more for me with my 6 foot 6 but maybe I also just want to be slightly more forward to be in a better climbing position.
    For now I am not scared to feel cramped with the new Tallboy, with the big reach and also the stack has increased in XXL, assuming in line with Hightower. Santa Cruz anyway is one of the few with nice big sizes. Although also TREK is there but they not yet also have the carbon Fuel EX in XXL (only aluminium) but the 2020 Top Fuel now is in XL. But really hope I don't have to move to TREK ;-)
    I really loved the feeling when I first took a ride on an XXL Tallboy. Hopefully the new Tallboy can make me even more happy with a more capable bike and I endup buying it.

  146. #146
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    I rode the new ripely several times and the steep sta takes some getting used to. At 6í 4Ē the XL felt small when seated. I rode another (Shimano has one in their fleet) but made some for adjustments. Moved the seat back, made sure seat height was right, rolled bars forward a bit. That really made it feel better. Pedaling on flat terrain with a steep sta is awkward if you are used to older bikes and have a lot of exposed seat post. However on climbs it feels great. No need to sit in the front on your saddle.

    For me the jury is still out with steep sta. Not as ďI hate itĒ as I was.
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    gerard---you are almost there--

    Seat height-----seat to mid bar is your actual distance sitting-----a variation of ETT taking into consideration the growth of ETT as the seat goes up. Using published ETT is not very useful as it is measured at stack (top of head tube) height and no one rides with a seat that low----so actual riding ETT is always longer.

    Reach has grown on the new bikes but that has NO affect on sitting----you can have old geo reach say of 450 and new geo reach say if 475 being an inch longer and the ETT does not change at all on most new geo bikes as the STA angle has taken up the added length in ETT. ETT is not useful for standing as the seat is out of the way so it does not matter where it was----but the reach is critical

    Took me a bit to understand this----in the end we all need to find what works for us---for me 75 on STA is about it and reach of around 460 is most comfortable. The good news is knowing what works for me I can pretty easily tell what bike will work and what will not. We also need to recognize that new geo even if it fits is going to feel fairly different and one has to get used to it.

    good luck

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    pctloper---thank you for your further clarification, really helpful!---
    Understand what you are saying on actual riding ETT. Anyway for tall riders like me that is a way different number and indeed largely effected by a major change in the seat tube angle.
    But of course it is everything together what makes how your bike will ride.
    I now own a cross country Cannondale Scalpel of 2013 (with a dropper) in XL with a 73.5 STA and 71.4 HTA so I am now looking at a way different bike, bigger and for some more confident descending in the mountains and easier bit more technical climbing. Now with the new "modern" geometry, besides the travel the differences will be even bigger probably.
    I did a real good test ride on the previous Hightower also which was in XL but I already really liked it, the way I was positioned on the bike and how it climbed and descended and would have been even better in XXL of course. I didn't have the feeling the seat tube needed to get steeper (74.3) but will
    see if I can manage around 76 ;-)
    I was not really waiting for even slacker HTA since I am anyway used to 71.4. Will be a huge jump going to 65.5, I was ok with the 67.0.
    And then there is also the fork offset change (from 51mm to 42/44mm) to complicate further but I guess that at least brings the weight of the wheel a bit closer again.
    And I will have also a huge change in wheelbase from 114.3cm (45inch) to probably around 127cm (50inch). So it could feel like to ride a truck. Hope it can still handle the tight switchback climbs somehow.
    Guess I will just have to wait and really test myself. Hope when the first events over here start end of August that there already is a new Tallboy to ride. Would have been easier if it was just more or less the old geometry of the Hightower, but lets hope it works out even better in practice.

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    Agree--I am in Santa Cruz so will do a factory demo when it is out----also by that time the new Trek Fuel will be out----if it is 130MM then that also is a possibility for me.

    Currently the 2 bikes that are primary for me are the Pivot T429 and maybe the Alchemy Arktos ST-(plan to fly to the factory in Denver to test--couple with vacation time)---be nice to add the TB tom the mix---in the meantime I enjoy my Pivot Mach 429 Trail----with ancient geo and all still good fun especially in tight terrain

  150. #150
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    Arktos ST is also on my shortlist. Only quibble on paper is the long seat tube (my current dropper will not work). I do however already have a 157mm rear wheel.


    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    Agree--I am in Santa Cruz so will do a factory demo when it is out----also by that time the new Trek Fuel will be out----if it is 130MM then that also is a possibility for me.

    Currently the 2 bikes that are primary for me are the Pivot T429 and maybe the Alchemy Arktos ST-(plan to fly to the factory in Denver to test--couple with vacation time)---be nice to add the TB tom the mix---in the meantime I enjoy my Pivot Mach 429 Trail----with ancient geo and all still good fun especially in tight terrain

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    bigdrunk--if you ride an Arktos let me know----I have long legs 34.4 inseam so the set tube is fine and I like the high stack----a large should work at 6 foot---no way to ride here is California that I have found-----enticing bike and the folks are very responsive--the bike is a deal with fox 36 and dpx2 for about 5K

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    Quote Originally Posted by pctloper View Post
    Agree--I am in Santa Cruz so will do a factory demo when it is out----also by that time the new Trek Fuel will be out----if it is 130MM then that also is a possibility for me.

    Currently the 2 bikes that are primary for me are the Pivot T429 and maybe the Alchemy Arktos ST-(plan to fly to the factory in Denver to test--couple with vacation time)---be nice to add the TB tom the mix---in the meantime I enjoy my Pivot Mach 429 Trail----with ancient geo and all still good fun especially in tight terrain
    What I heard is that they will not have the TREK Fuel EX in carbon/Project One in size XXL. If this is true than TREK will be a no go for me. But I think TREK has the best geometry in XXL. They do have the Top Fuel now in XXL but I would prefer a bit more than the 120mm fork and 115mm rear suspension.
    Size wise then ater TREK the best fit for me I think really is only with Santa Cruz. I checked the Alchemy Arkos ST and looks great on paper, and also the Pivot T429 and the Specialized Stumpjumper ST but they would be greater for me with one size up, but unfortunately they don't have that.
    So looks like I am stuck to Santa Cruz, luckily brand wise I like Santa Cruz also better ;-)
    Only now have the feeling that I wished they didn't go so far with slackening the head tube angle and steepening the seat tube angle. Also now when you would want to put a bit longer travel fork it becomes even slacker so not easily tempted to do so.
    This is what worries me a bit on the Tallboy when it would get the same extreme angles as the Hightower, otherwise I would think of a Tallboy with a 140mm fork.
    Well I will try just to be patient and test when demo bikes are getting available in the Netherlands.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerard29er View Post
    What I heard is that they will not have the TREK Fuel EX in carbon/Project One in size XXL. If this is true than TREK will be a no go for me. But I think TREK has the best geometry in XXL. They do have the Top Fuel now in XXL but I would prefer a bit more than the 120mm fork and 115mm rear suspension.
    Size wise then ater TREK the best fit for me I think really is only with Santa Cruz. I checked the Alchemy Arkos ST and looks great on paper, and also the Pivot T429 and the Specialized Stumpjumper ST but they would be greater for me with one size up, but unfortunately they don't have that.
    So looks like I am stuck to Santa Cruz, luckily brand wise I like Santa Cruz also better ;-)
    Only now have the feeling that I wished they didn't go so far with slackening the head tube angle and steepening the seat tube angle. Also now when you would want to put a bit longer travel fork it becomes even slacker so not easily tempted to do so.
    This is what worries me a bit on the Tallboy when it would get the same extreme angles as the Hightower, otherwise I would think of a Tallboy with a 140mm fork.
    Well I will try just to be patient and test when demo bikes are getting available in the Netherlands.
    Not to derail TB4 talk, but have you looked at bikes from Guerrilla Gravity, Transition, and some others? Since you're in the Netherlands, maybe Pole or Mondraker? I ask b/c their XLs have similar numbers to SC in XXL. You might find you don't need an XXL, but actually need the same geo as an SC XXL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Not to derail TB4 talk, but have you looked at bikes from Guerrilla Gravity, Transition, and some others? Since you're in the Netherlands, maybe Pole or Mondraker? I ask b/c their XLs have similar numbers to SC in XXL. You might find you don't need an XXL, but actually need the same geo as an SC XXL.
    Thanks Smartyiak. I did look into the Transition Smuggler which looked nice, but still a bit limited in size/reach(500mm) then I would rather take the Specialized Stumpjumper ST. Mondraker I did not find anything really nice. Pole I did not know but they are really not my taste.
    I did not look into Guerrilla Gravity until now and I must say the Trail Pistol looks perfect geo wise with a nice reach and slightly less extreme angles (only maybe a bit short seattube which makes the dropper post too much exposed). But probably a bit difficult to get a hold of in NL, but this would be the most interesting one, look wise I really like the Transition Smuggler which would have been an option with the numbers from the Trail Pistol ;-)

    Still I think Santa Cruz has really beautifull and well made framesets which makes me for a start to stay with Santa Cruz when possible.

    But good to explore the other possibilities, so thanks for that!

  155. #155
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    Any new info. on geometry, spec. or pictures yet?
    2020 SC Hightower v2
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    Coming out next week.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by careyj1 View Post
    Coming out next week.
    Date ?

  158. #158
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    7/25/2019, i hope my source is correct. Also told me Trek is coming out with new XC race bike. Time will tell if they know what's going on.

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by careyj1 View Post
    7/25/2019
    On a Thursday? So soon after the Hightower? And zero leaks?

  160. #160
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    There was no leak for the HT2, I hope the rumor is right !

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    LBS told me August. But no actual date.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxone View Post
    There was no leak for the HT2
    It was spotted in Whistler a couple weeks before the July 2nd release. In that same thread we also saw super close up photos of the frame colors, as well as photos of Emily Slaco riding the Juliana Maverick (women's HT) during Trans-Provence, which was 2+ weeks before the release date.

  163. #163
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    Yeah but where would you spot a pro riding a Tallboy? Too much bike for XC/BCBR [at pro level anyway] and not enough for [most] enduro.

  164. #164
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    Yeah that's a good point. There weren't any spy shots of the Tallboy 3 in the rumor threads back in 2016, at least not that I could find.

  165. #165
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    Tallboy 4

    Maybe Downieville Classic... but by then it might be released...

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  166. #166
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    It has been spotted in the wild. No photos though.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by M320 View Post
    LBS told me August. But no actual date.
    A Santa Cruz Rep I spoke to essentially confirmed mid August. July 25 is possible if they want to get in on the action. They may be feeling the pressure of the ripley doing so well and want to at least announce it so all the potential TB customers arenít buying ripleys.
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  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    It has been spotted in the wild. No photos though.
    Any confirmation on the lower link design?

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinciSean View Post
    Any confirmation on the lower link design?
    Yep lower link.

  170. #170
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    Release date is going to be August 20.

  171. #171
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    A shop buddy just showed me the new TB pics and geo numbers. Ive been sworn to secrecy.

    I had my eye on a new Hightower but now Iím certain the new TB is the bike Iíll be replacing my OG Hightower with.


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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    A shop buddy just showed me the new TB pics and geo numbers. Ive been sworn to secrecy.

    I had my eye on a new Hightower but now Iím certain the new TB is the bike Iíll be replacing my OG Hightower with.


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    Can you tell whether the headtube angle is as slack as the new Hightower or a little less? I am hoping increasing the fork to 140 would still work (decreasing HTA with .5) without being slacker than even the new Hightower.
    And will the increase in weight about as much as with the Hightower?
    Sorry for asking ;-) but hopefully you can at least give a short yes or no to the questions...

  173. #173
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    I didnít get any weight numbers but he new TBís HTA is a wee bit steeper than the new HTís.


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  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    I didnít get any weight numbers but he new TBís HTA is a wee bit steeper than the new HTís.
    Thanks for informing.

    That sounds like the HTA/STA numbers mentioned by Wahoo99 were accurate and referring to the low setting then, being a 65.5 degree HTA (vs 65.2 for the Hightower in low) and 65.8 in High. STA wise was mentioned 76.3 in M which would be .3 degree less steep than the new Hightower.
    Would be not too bad. Hopefully weight increase compared to the previous Tallboy at least is less than 1 kg (2.2 lbs).

  175. #175
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    Tallboy 4

    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    A shop buddy just showed me the new TB pics and geo numbers. Ive been sworn to secrecy.

    I had my eye on a new Hightower but now Iím certain the new TB is the bike Iíll be replacing my OG Hightower with.


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    Can you give us a crumb? Colors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    A shop buddy just showed me the new TB pics and geo numbers. Ive been sworn to secrecy.

    I had my eye on a new Hightower but now Iím certain the new TB is the bike Iíll be replacing my OG Hightower with.


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    I was about to get the OGHT but jumped on the new hightower when it came out, I hope I chose wisely! The new tallboy and other short travel 29ers were on the new bike list too.

    But really my current bike is 125mm and I want more travel and something more capable for downhill riding yet still a good all around trail bike. For those reasons I don't think the ripley or TB4 would be cutting it and I was happy with the new hightower demo bike I rode, except for the stock tires were a bit slow for my liking.

    Of course it sounds like the new tallboy will come out just as soon as i've got my first few rides in on the new hightower, so I'll find out if I made the correct choice once its too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo99 View Post
    Yellow one its actually kinda cool, like a dijon mustard color.
    Plus new TB4 is a freaking animal, Geo rocks! lots of people going to be happy with it, pretty much the same as the Mega T and the new HT2.
    Flip Chip
    120R,130F. Lower link shock VPP. Size M: HTA 65.5 , ST 76.3, Reach 450
    Can you confirm that these angles are in the low setting? And that in high it would be a HTA of 65.8, so in general .3 steeper than the new Hightower?
    Thanks.

  178. #178
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    The white SC in the front - could that be the new Tallboy?

    Tallboy 4-img-3197.jpg

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    Itís a Bronson isnít it?

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danish Dynamite View Post
    The white SC in the front - could that be the new Tallboy?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think it's a gray Bronson.

    Reports upthread for the new TB colors are yellow and a dark purple/purplish gray thing. Person reporting those colors has been 100% spot on in all the info he provided about the HT2, so I believe what he's saying re: the TB4 too.

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    Yup that is the Bronson from last year. The Bronson next to it has the updated "Bronson CC" or "Bronson C" detailing on the top tube (in the rectangle). It seems like that is consistent for all of the '20 bikes. The grey Bronson has the old detailing which is similar to the purple highball.

    Also can confirm that the colors of the TB are yellow and dark purple.

  182. #182
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    Is the purple a gloss or a matte color like you on the 2020 Nomad? What about the yellow? Gloss? Matte? Canari yellow or more of a lime yellow/tennis ball?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerard29er View Post
    Can you confirm that these angles are in the low setting? And that in high it would be a HTA of 65.8, so in general .3 steeper than the new Hightower?
    Thanks.
    I spoke to a dealer today who has confirmed that release is imminent and bikes are currently in transit from the manufacturer to distributors. The Geo looks pretty good for tall riders like me (199cm, 100cm inseam) in particular the stack height is the highest of any similar bike in xxl frame that I have come across (Rocky mountain element is the next best) not sure of impact of sta and hta I am waiting for a bike fitter to run the numbers for me. See pic for the numbers I was given. Not sure if this was high or low.

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  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by oz_rider View Post
    I spoke to a dealer today who has confirmed that release is imminent and bikes are currently in transit from the manufacturer to distributors. The Geo looks pretty good for tall riders like me (199cm, 100cm inseam) in particular the stack height is the highest of any similar bike in xxl frame that I have come across (Rocky mountain element is the next best) not sure of impact of sta and hta I am waiting for a bike fitter to run the numbers for me. See pic for the numbers I was given. Not sure if this was high or low.

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    ...as a fellow tall person, consider me INTERESTED!!!!

  185. #185
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    So looking at those numbers and assuming they are XXL it appears that the wheelbase has grown 41mm and the chainstay shortened 2mm. It is also slacker than a 5010 and almost the same as the new HT. From these numbers it looks like it has basically become a shorter travel HT more so than a tweener XC/Trail bike.
    So many trails, so little time.

    2019 Santa Cruz 5010 C S, 140/130

  186. #186
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    Which is the type of Tallboy 4 some us were hoping for as an option to the new Hightower.

    I don't expect SC to disappoint (me, at least).
    Last edited by Rev Bubba; 07-30-2019 at 07:26 AM. Reason: layout

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by oz_rider View Post
    I spoke to a dealer today who has confirmed that release is imminent and bikes are currently in transit from the manufacturer to distributors. The Geo looks pretty good for tall riders like me (199cm, 100cm inseam) in particular the stack height is the highest of any similar bike in xxl frame that I have come across (Rocky mountain element is the next best) not sure of impact of sta and hta I am waiting for a bike fitter to run the numbers for me. See pic for the numbers I was given. Not sure if this was high or low.

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    That CS length is too short for XL/XXL IMO, considering how long the front center is. It doesn't seem like there will be an adjustable CS like the MT has, since the HT didn't get it...
    I don't really care, since I ride medium SC bikes (large in older gen). But I would think twice if I was riding XXL or even XL.

  188. #188
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    I think it's dead on. These days I wish my XL TB1 (445mm CS) were a little shorter in the back for bumps and jumps. I like my front end with the -2 Angleset to 68 but could do slacker. I will very likely order the TB4 as soon as it pops.

    For the poster who said it's "imminent," does that mean sooner than August 20th as previously mentioned?

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  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I think it's dead on. These days I wish my XL TB1 (445mm CS) were a little shorter in the back for bumps and jumps. I like my front end with the -2 Angleset to 68 but could do slacker. I will very likely order the TB4 as soon as it pops.

    For the poster who said it's "imminent," does that mean sooner than August 20th as previously mentioned?

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    You can't really compare TB1 with this T4 in this regard.
    TB1 has an extremely short front center and a short CS will not throw it off balance.
    If you combine a short CS with a long front center you get a less balanced bike. It might be easy to manual but will be harder to climb, less stable on DH and much harder to find the balance point in the middle.
    Small and medium frames will be very different in ride feel compared to XL and XXL since the CS length will stay the same across all the sizes, but the front center will increase significantly.
    This will most likely be a great balanced medium bike, but not so much in XL/XXL.
    The problem is many people are obsessed with short CS these days, so bike manufacturers aren't really pressured to make larger rear triangles for larger sizes, which cuts the costs for them.
    I think the adjustable CS, like the Megatower has is a nice way to do it and also is a cheaper solution. I am a bit surprised SC doesn't implement it on all their frames and give riders the option to decide which position they want to use.

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    Someone in an earlier post suggested that the TB4 would have the adjustable chainstays so fingers crossed!

  191. #191
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    I don't think the short chainstays will be an issue. I have an XXL Megatower and a XL GG Pedalhead. I totally agree that for riding serious descents long chainstays are the way to go. For trail riding though I prefer the short stays. The Pedalhead has a 500mm reach, 65 degree hta, and 419mm chainstays. It handles and climbs very well. I'm not taking it to Windrock anytime soon but it handled Bentonville no problem (including Coler Preserve). It keeps the wheelbase in check. When I got the MT I figured I'd leave it in the long chainstay position for the reasons you stated. I found for east coast trail riding the longer stay position was just too slow handling. I just use the long position for riding DH. For the travel the TB has I think the 430mm stays would be perfect on the XXL. It would make for a playful bike. I'd love to have one if I had the money for another bike.

  192. #192
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    Tallboy 4

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    You can't really compare TB1 with this T4 in this regard.
    TB1 has an extremely short front center and a short CS will not throw it off balance.
    Since you ride medium SC bikes and I ride XL SC bikes...

    Dude...thatís why I mentioned my Angleset ;-) Yes, the stock TB1 (especially with a 100mm fork like when I first got it) is very short and steep in the front. I have a long inseam/short torso and run a pretty short stem on a 120mm so to me itís not that short anymore. Itís slacker and longer to the point Iím running 10-15 psi more in the fork and itís worlds different in how it runs. I still want a slightly longer front and shorter CS.

    My old hard tail already has 430mm CSís and an inch more ETT, plus a 68 degree HTA. Iíve long wanted more of that in my TB, but now thanks to droppers Iíd prefer the steeper STA and slacker HTA.

    TBH it sounds like you are looking for enduro-style stability and traction over all. I want mine to be a little more capable where the trail has pump-track bumps in it and jumps, and not feel like a boat in some corners. This is after two years in the PNW doing chunky riding so maybe Iíll feel differently now that Iím back on the east coast and need to whip around trees, but who knows. Sounds like I will get what I want...hooray for me!





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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    You can't really compare TB1 with this T4 in this regard.
    TB1 has an extremely short front center and a short CS will not throw it off balance.
    If you combine a short CS with a long front center you get a less balanced bike. It might be easy to manual but will be harder to climb, less stable on DH and much harder to find the balance point in the middle.
    Small and medium frames will be very different in ride feel compared to XL and XXL since the CS length will stay the same across all the sizes, but the front center will increase significantly.
    This will most likely be a great balanced medium bike, but not so much in XL/XXL.
    The problem is many people are obsessed with short CS these days, so bike manufacturers aren't really pressured to make larger rear triangles for larger sizes, which cuts the costs for them.
    I think the adjustable CS, like the Megatower has is a nice way to do it and also is a cheaper solution. I am a bit surprised SC doesn't implement it on all their frames and give riders the option to decide which position they want to use.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    I agree. Also if that short stays limit tyre options its another bummer. Adjustable stays for different days would make this one perfect. If theres not, well its not perfect, at least for me.

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  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affe View Post
    I agree. Also if that short stays limit tyre options its another bummer. Adjustable stays for different days would make this one perfect. If theres not, well its not perfect, at least for me.

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    You are right. I forgot about the short CS most likely limiting the tire choice.
    I would like to run 2.5WT aggressor even on a short travel 29er.
    Well, I guess we will see soon enough. Let's hope the adjustable CS is indeed included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I think it's dead on. These days I wish my XL TB1 (445mm CS) were a little shorter in the back for bumps and jumps. I like my front end with the -2 Angleset to 68 but could do slacker. I will very likely order the TB4 as soon as it pops.

    For the poster who said it's "imminent," does that mean sooner than August 20th as previously mentioned?

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    Re 'imminent' they did not say when exactly but I think that Aug 20 date sounds like a pretty good bet.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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    Hoping this doesn't come in as a pig. Eyeballing the Ripley 4 at 25lbs'ish.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    Hoping this doesn't come in as a pig. Eyeballing the Ripley 4 at 25lbs'ish.
    It's going to be heavier. I expect the lightest builds to be in the high 27 lbs without pedals.

  199. #199
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    If heavier, it better get rowdier than the Ripley. Maybe it'll be more like the Transition Smuggler with better climbing

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    Any spy shots out there yet? If these are in transit, some LBS's might have gotten them already.

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