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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I think these bikes HAVE to have the seat jammed forward not to generate more power, but to keep the rider from doing a wheelie with every pedal stroke.

    Saying they climb better is a bit dishonest, at best. This geometry tweak keeps enough weight on the front wheel. That's it.
    One of the rationales for the steeper STA on some bikes is simply to make room for the rear wheel at the end of the travel range without needing a longer CS.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    One of the rationales for the steeper STA on some bikes is simply to make room for the rear wheel at the end of the travel range without needing a longer CS.
    That's another very logical, and plausible explanation.

    By tucking the rear linkage, and shortening the links, there is less of a backwards axle path than previous iterations of VPP/DW, IIRC.
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  3. #203
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    Another way to think about it is that the slack seat angle allows for a generous effect top tube without having a wheelbase that is a mile long.

    The only way to combat that is to shorten the rear center or steepen the head angle.



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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The only time I'm going to get to demo a SC Hightower in my size on my local trails is the day I buy one. I had to buy my last $7K bike with no test ride.

    If bikes I wanted to own were demo'd locally I'd be all over it. So far that hasn't happened.
    Built in excuse to head to Outerbike, or Fruita, Sedona or Hurricane for one of the Fat Tire Festivals!!

    Maybe it's because I live in SoCal and there seem to be constant demo days or maybe because I'm not a "techy" sort but aside from hardcore racers, I don't understand all the fascination with STA, TT lengths, etc...analyzed so crazily (I do have one friend that's into all that). I don't know the length or angle of any tube on any bike I own. I just go ride whatever bike I'm interested in and see how I like it. I'm glad I'm not in your situation Vik because I would never buy a $7000 bike (or even a $3000 frameset without riding the bike first).

    I'm going to check out the new Hightower and 5010 Demo'ing the 5010 next Thursday!!

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Another way to think about it is that the slack seat angle allows for a generous effect top tube without having a wheelbase that is a mile long.

    The only way to combat that is to shorten the rear center or steepen the head angle.
    Definitely. It's one of the main reasons I bought the bike I did for our tight twisty forest trails.

    People get super focused on one part of the geo chart and lose the overall perspective of how the bike rides.

    They also lose sight of the fact that different body morphology will make different geos work better or worse. I like how my two slack STA bikes climb steep tech. If my legs were a bunch longer and my torso shorter I probably wouldn't.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I don't know the length or angle of any tube on any bike I own. I just go ride whatever bike I'm interested in and see how I like it.
    Yeah, but how do you repeat the experience when you change bikes/frame? My analyzing of things is built up over time...of things I've tried and liked and didn't like, then tie that to changes made. Thus, like VikB's problem, I can look at a bikes numbers and get pretty damn close to what I know works. For example...the BB height thing of above 13.5 and 13.7 being a sweet spot vs the current trend of stupid-low below 13.3.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Built in excuse to head to Outerbike, or Fruita, Sedona or Hurricane for one of the Fat Tire Festivals!!
    I've considered that, but I hate riding with a lot of people and going to one of those events means things will be gonzo. And coming from Canada means I'll spend $1k+ to attend. I can buy a frame and sell it if I don't like it for a loss of less than that.

    I'm also of the mind that unless you get a well tuned and well setup demo bike [no guarantee at a festival] it's not all that instructive. Having the bike for a day and getting to tune it is a different thing.

    If a trip to Sedona or Moab allowed me to rent one of the bikes I was after for a whole day I would take advantage of that opportunity. So far that hasn't happened though.

    If you live in SoCal your opportunity to demo a bike will be a lot different than mine.
    Safe riding,

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  8. #208
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    Speaking only for myself, physiology prevents me from enjoying slack SA bikes. Seated pedaling from behind the BB makes my knees hurt.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    I agree with this. The only explanation that makes sense to me about the advantage of a steep STA for climbing is that when you stand you have more room (longer reach goes with steep STA).
    Standing climbing is of very little concern to me, as a rarely do it, and it usually results in a loss of traction on dirt.
    I am one of those who prefer steep ST. The steper the better.
    I like the way the new designs are going.
    Steep ST helps tremendously on climbs, shifts the weight forward and deals better with the slack HA.
    Steep ST also allows for longer reach, which gives better stability and bigger room for weight transfer errors.
    My observation on shorter reach bikes is you have to be much more careful with the weight shifts, they usually are more nimble due to a shorter WB, but to me they generally feel nervous.

    The only disadvantage in my opinion in certain situations can be the longer WB as a result of the longer reach. But this, again in my opinion is very exaggerated, especially on internet forums by people who haven't gotten any time or enough time to adjust to the new geometry.

    I have to say though, we are all different, with different bodies, riding different trails and the new geo might not be for everyone.
    For me it just works.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Shoehorned a 8.75x2.75 shock into a large N3. Coincidentally, the fit gets better with the smaller sizes. I have about 2mm of clearence between link and seat tube on my large while there's like 3 or 4mm on Ethan F's medium, and even more on his wife's small.
    Interesting.
    How about the space between ST and tire at the bottom out? What tire and shock are you running?

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    The only time I'm going to get to demo a SC Hightower in my size on my local trails is the day I buy one. I had to buy my last $7K bike with no test ride.

    If bikes I wanted to own were demo'd locally I'd be all over it. So far that hasn't happened.
    Oh I'm going to buy it sight unseen, too, even though I could probably demo it if I wanted to. I'm mainly referring to the comments about how the bike is "unrideable" because of geometry measurement X. Classic e-biking stuff. Static BB heights are pretty meaningless unless you have a sense of how the suspension performs. Good mid stroke support and a relatively high sag point versus bad mid stroke support and a low sag point makes a much bigger difference than a few tenths of an inch in static height.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I agree with you. No one I know of is complaining about power meter numbers. My issue with the slack seat angle was that seated climbs felt like I had to slide up to the nose of the saddle or even stand to keep the front wheel from wandering. The steeper seat angle keeps your weight more centered and allows for sustained seated climbing without feeling like you have to stand up.

    If I was XC or even Enduro racing, I'm sure that quantifying how many watts of power I was generating would be of more significance. However I'm more interested in a comfortable climbing position that allows me to climb longer and easier without having to stand up and crank it out.

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    This is it. Before the advent of dropper posts, most trail bikes had STAs that were compromises between climbing and descending performance. (Not that you'd be on the seat while descending, but without dropping your post, it limits how far back you can get). Now that we have dropper posts, you are seeing trail bikes with saddle positions optimized for seated climbing, because in descending mode, the saddle is a non factor. Some folks have bodies that work well with the "too slack" STAs of earlier generation bikes, so they think they work well, the rest of us were slamming saddles forward to get the right fit on a bike that had the desired reach numbers. The "steep" STAs correct this.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've considered that, but I hate riding with a lot of people and going to one of those events means things will be gonzo. And coming from Canada means I'll spend $1k+ to attend. I can buy a frame and sell it if I don't like it for a loss of less than that.

    I'm also of the mind that unless you get a well tuned and well setup demo bike [no guarantee at a festival] it's not all that instructive. Having the bike for a day and getting to tune it is a different thing.

    If a trip to Sedona or Moab allowed me to rent one of the bikes I was after for a whole day I would take advantage of that opportunity. So far that hasn't happened though.

    If you live in SoCal your opportunity to demo a bike will be a lot different than mine.
    I'm with you here. If I'm taking time off to go to a destination MTB spot, I'm sure as hell not doing when the rest of the universe will also be there.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Interesting.
    How about the space between ST and tire at the bottom out? What tire and shock are you running?

    2.3 HR2 mounted to LB38 rims. No contact to ST. Resulting in approx 181mm of travel. Sagged at 30%, it's an AMAZINGLY good pedaling trail bike even with a non-CS shock. I maxed out a 36 Float 170 to 180, approx 20 to 25% sag, with a 2.4 HR2 up front. It's been on The Whole Enchilada and did just fine. Also climbs like a Billy goat!

  15. #215
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    Interesting discussion of evolving geometries!

    If many of the steep STA bikes are in practice closer to something like 73 when measuring effective STA at riding saddle height, then it makes sense to me that people would like that because it's essentially the old NORBA hardtail STA anyway.

    That said, if the effective STA at normal saddle height of some of these new bikes really is 74-77, and if that is being done primarily to be able to keep the front end down with short-stem, long-reach bikes, then maybe we should acknowledge that this comes with some compromises.

    In my understanding, "slack" STAs of 72-73 that are the norm of many XC bikes are not just that way because it is a holdover from road-bike geometry. Rather, for many riders, getting your butt back a bit behind the BB and leaning forward allows for better recruitment of your glutes and hamstrings in addition to quads. Steep STAs often result in a fairly quad-dominant pedal stroke, meaning you are using fewer muscle groups to propel yourself forward. (Clearly there is variance for physiology and it doesn't work for everyone).

    I'm wondering if Ibis hasn't struck the right balance on a bike like the HD3. The STA is still slack enough that you won't find it hard to get full muscle recruitment for seated riding and climbing. The TT is not so long that the front end is going to get light when doing steep climbing, yet long enough to give some confidence on the downs. Go crazy and run a "long" 60 or 70mm stem, and you can get just a titch more weight over the front as well.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    This is it. Before the advent of dropper posts, most trail bikes had STAs that were compromises between climbing and descending performance. (Not that you'd be on the seat while descending, but without dropping your post, it limits how far back you can get). Now that we have dropper posts, you are seeing trail bikes with saddle positions optimized for seated climbing, because in descending mode, the saddle is a non factor. Some folks have bodies that work well with the "too slack" STAs of earlier generation bikes, so they think they work well, the rest of us were slamming saddles forward to get the right fit on a bike that had the desired reach numbers. The "steep" STAs correct this.
    This was always my understanding as well. Even up until recently with dropper posts, a lot of riders only drop the post when it's really, truly necessary for a steep technical descent. These new geometries essentially are designed with the expectation that you'll use your dropper post more. This fits in with my own riding style, personally, since I drop my post a lot. I just like the feeling of having full mobility over the top of the cockpit so I'm perfectly fine with steep STA's.

  17. #217
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    Hmm so tempting I have a decked out LTc now and a Salsa Bucksaw but this seems like the best of both worlds. But then again id have to have my Enve wheels rebuilt and buy new hubs and etc...almost not worth all the hassle..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy22 View Post
    Hmm so tempting I have a decked out LTc now and a Salsa Bucksaw but this seems like the best of both worlds. But then again id have to have my Enve wheels rebuilt and buy new hubs and etc...almost not worth all the hassle..
    Yup.
    Lemme help...just send those Enves to me so you can move on and get new ones. Nothing throwing money at can't solve, yeah?

  19. #219
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    SA depends on the rear susp design too. Something that is more active like FSR, I would like better with 74.5/75d SA, while a bike that stays up in its travel better I might be okay with a 73d. Then there might be the issue of running the rear softer than the front, perhaps with slower rebound in the rear.

  20. #220
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    Haha I'll keep them. Just can't justify the cost of switching everything over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy22 View Post
    Haha I'll keep them. Just can't justify the cost of switching everything over.
    Which hubs, DT 240s? If so, look into Lindrarts (sp?)

    Correction: Boostinator ? Lindarets

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  23. #223
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    I'm curious how much saddle to bar drop is present on the bikes of these guys who think steep STA's are such a revelation. I personally have no problem keeping my front end weighted on steep climbs with a slack STA bike (even with a long TT/short stem), but then I don't have my saddle even with my bars at full extension either, like a lot of the bikes I see on here. A little technique/upper body strength goes a long way too.

    For those of us who have a long saddle to BB measurement, another nice feature of a slacker STA is it keeps the saddle slightly lower for a given extension, with more of the distance being taken up horizontally. It's not a lot (~4mm/degree), but every little bit helps, especially when you're trying to not jack up your front end too much and hamper aggressive descending.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post

    These flip chips are a great idea. A little bit of adjustability broadens the sweet spot of the bike. Trek has used them with great success. They even ship media test bikes to us with the flip chip optimized for our geographic location. I hope they incorporate these on their other bikes.

    This is the SC bikes lunch ride.
    Did SC talk about using this on other models? 5010,Bronson,Nomad?

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluePitch View Post
    Did SC talk about using this on other models? 5010,Bronson,Nomad?
    Nope. No plans at the moment.
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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Speaking only for myself, physiology prevents me from enjoying slack SA bikes. Seated pedaling from behind the BB makes my knees hurt.
    You should be setting the saddle vs. BB position based on your body dimensions irrespective of the STA. If you don't have enough adjustment range for that to happen on your saddle rails then the bike geo just doesn't work for you.

    When I am setting up my bike my first move is to get my saddle vs. the BB/pedals sorted and then to deal with the stem/bars.
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  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Oh I'm going to buy it sight unseen, too, even though I could probably demo it if I wanted to. I'm mainly referring to the comments about how the bike is "unrideable" because of geometry measurement X. Classic e-biking stuff. Static BB heights are pretty meaningless unless you have a sense of how the suspension performs. Good mid stroke support and a relatively high sag point versus bad mid stroke support and a low sag point makes a much bigger difference than a few tenths of an inch in static height.
    Yeah, but qualify this with where and what kind of terrain you ride. OK, wasn't it? And I recall you saying it was pretty smooth, yeah? Have you spent any time in CO with your TB LTc?

  28. #228
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    I'm toying with the idea of a Hightower and I'd want to buy a frame and fork and use some parts I've just taken off my Burner. My question is, do you think the 35mm internal width/41mm external width of the Ibis 741 rims be wide enough to run 2.8" tyres whilst still benefitting from the Plus size?

  29. #229
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    I think you'd be more than fine

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  30. #230
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    How soon until we see one of these bad boys in the wild? I need to see real world pics of the red.

  31. #231
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    Lots of them on Instagram. Seems that Santa Cruz got them into the hands of some dealers already, which is nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    How soon until we see one of these bad boys in the wild? I need to see real world pics of the red.
    I wish they offer that white that's in the Full Enduro link...with turquoise letters...saw a Jedi decked out like that and it's PORN!

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I wish they offer that white that's in the Full Enduro link...with turquoise letters...saw a Jedi decked out like that and it's PORN!
    Yes, that would be slick. I'm going with the red myself.

  34. #234
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    Am I the only one who thinks the color schemes from a year or two ago were MUCH better than the new tri color schemes?

    See frames on the left in both of these pics vs the ones on the right.


    Santa Cruz Hightower-p4pb10776339.jpg


    Santa Cruz Hightower-untitled.jpg

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    I stopped at Santa Cruz yesterday to check out the new bike. I think they had three of the high end models set up. I have to agree with Alias530. The colors just didn't grab me. Its hard to tell the Nomad, Bronson, 5010, Hightower, apart except for color ( and the fat tires on the 27.5). I wanted to see the most base model but that was a no go.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks the color schemes from a year or two ago were MUCH better than the new tri color schemes?

    See frames on the left in both of these pics vs the ones on the right.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I like all the ones you posted a lot but the one thing I like more than anything is the outlined Santa Cruz name pictured on the TBLT frame. I absolutely love the new sriracha red hightower though, probably my favorite color in the past 2-3 years.

  37. #237
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    my favorite so far...he's swapped the RockShox/SRAM for Fox/Shimano. sponsors I assume...

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BBXIzR8P...by=gregminnaar

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    I think the Sriracha is wicked.

    My LTc just got jacked yesterday

    http://forums.mtbr.com/new-mexico/he...s-1002610.html

    Looks like one of these possibly in my future thanks to an excellent home owners insurance policy.
    2020 SC CC Hightower

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    Santa Cruz Hightower-photo-aug-17-12-29-26-pm.jpgSO should i sell my frame and get the Hightower? Chris king have any upgrade to boost programs? lolSanta Cruz Hightower-ltcweb.jpg
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  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy22 View Post
    SO should i sell my frame and get the Hightower? Chris king have any upgrade to boost programs? lolClick image for larger version. 

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    Yup. 1000%
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  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    I think the Sriracha is wicked.

    My LTc just got jacked yesterday

    http://forums.mtbr.com/new-mexico/he...s-1002610.html

    Looks like one of these possibly in my future thanks to an excellent home owners insurance policy.
    Hmmmmmm......

    It's cool that the two color options for the Hightower are really good. One actually has to think it over.
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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    I'm toying with the idea of a Hightower and I'd want to buy a frame and fork and use some parts I've just taken off my Burner. My question is, do you think the 35mm internal width/41mm external width of the Ibis 741 rims be wide enough to run 2.8" tyres whilst still benefitting from the Plus size?
    Yes, it will be fine. Specialized spec'd 30mm internal rims on all their 6fatties for 2015. It works. Just can't get too low on the tire pressure.
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  43. #243
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    Stopped in my LBS today and they had two built sitting on the floor...

    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    How soon until we see one of these bad boys in the wild? I need to see real world pics of the red.

  44. #244
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    [QUOTE=Buster;12457447]my favorite so far...he's swapped the RockShox/SRAM for Fox/Shimano. sponsors I assume...

    [url]https://www.instagram.com/p/BBXIzR8PocO/?taken

    That is badass!!

    As mix john said "the Siracha is wicked". Indeed, love it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Yup. 1000%

    Really? That much better then the Ltc?
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  46. #246
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    Thanks Colin and fc, I'd be sad not to use the Ibis rims on my next project as they've been fantastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I wish they offer that white that's in the Full Enduro link...with turquoise letters...saw a Jedi decked out like that and it's PORN!
    I drooled at Pivot's white with cobalt combo (with gold/ti-nitride links). Heard that white was fragile and flaked easily though. Came to the conclusion that the only durable white was a powdercoat, and that requires baking, which is no bueno for carbon, unless they use some high temp resin.

    @Just J - Those ibis rims can be reused with a spacer kit for boost (esp if it's the DT hub model), or just a new hub and spokes.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I drooled at Pivot's white with cobalt combo (with gold/ti-nitride links). Heard that white was fragile and flaked easily though. Came to the conclusion that the only durable white was a powdercoat, and that requires baking, which is no bueno for carbon, unless they use some high temp resin.

    @Just J - Those ibis rims can be reused with a spacer kit for boost (esp if it's the DT hub model), or just a new hub and spokes.
    Hi, yes I ws considering either using the spacer kit temporarily or re-lacing the wheels on some new Hope Pro 4 Evo hubs in orange.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    One of the rationales for the steeper STA on some bikes is simply to make room for the rear wheel at the end of the travel range without needing a longer CS.
    This is the real reason steeper STAs have been trending!

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy22 View Post
    Really? That much better then the Ltc?
    Night n day! Here's the geometry chart and you'll see how radically different they are. Every change is an improvement. Medium riders benefit a lot.

    Santa Cruz Hightower-screen-shot-2016-02-02-1.10.16-pm.jpg

    Plus this version of VPP is more supple and active now. 150mm standard dropper is a big deal.

    The flexibility with Plus is a plus too. And this new bike is beautiful.

    And I get a commission if you buy one. Only three easy payments.

    The downsides are hella money, 1x only and the rims should be wider.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Night n day! Here's the geometry chart and you'll see how radically different they are. Every change is an improvement. Medium riders benefit a lot.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Plus this version of VPP is more supple and active now. 150mm standard dropper is a big deal.

    The flexibility with Plus is a plus too. And this new bike is beautiful.

    And I get a commission if you buy one. Only three easy payments.

    The downsides are hella money, 1x only and the rims should be wider.
    Hey FC,
    You ride the med...how tall are you, inseam? I'm having a heck of a time correlating the new numbers to a size I'm familiar with. I was on a large TB LTc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Hey FC,
    You ride the med...how tall are you, inseam? I'm having a heck of a time correlating the new numbers to a size I'm familiar with. I was on a large TB LTc...
    It's so much bigger size for size, but I personally can't imagine sizing down. I think the main difference is that I could ride a medium if I was forced to, whereas previously I couldn't on SC bikes.

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    anyone make note of the tire clearance on the 27.5x2.8 tires. I think I heard mention of the limited tire clearance on the plus bike, but have not heard the official word yet. I would also like to hear a real ride report, all of the mainstream outlets offered a very sanitized report that one could have easily found out himself by just reading the santa cruz website.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've considered that, but I hate riding with a lot of people and going to one of those events means things will be gonzo. And coming from Canada means I'll spend $1k+ to attend. I can buy a frame and sell it if I don't like it for a loss of less than that.

    I'm also of the mind that unless you get a well tuned and well setup demo bike [no guarantee at a festival] it's not all that instructive. Having the bike for a day and getting to tune it is a different thing.

    If a trip to Sedona or Moab allowed me to rent one of the bikes I was after for a whole day I would take advantage of that opportunity. So far that hasn't happened though.

    If you live in SoCal your opportunity to demo a bike will be a lot different than mine.
    I'm renting a medium Hightower for two days during my Sedona trip in March. Get in touch with Bike and Bean, they'll hook you up. Set up 27+ but they are kicking around the idea of getting some 29er wheels so you could test back-to-back. They said no promises on that, though.

    My local shop in Austin has three now 3 and wants to sell them, so no demos. Also mentioned that there were 50 bikes in the first shipment (assuming for all SC dealers?). 2nd wave of shipments March/April.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    It's so much bigger size for size, but I personally can't imagine sizing down. I think the main difference is that I could ride a medium if I was forced to, whereas previously I couldn't on SC bikes.
    Yeah, but the sizing thing on their page puts me near the upper end of a large...and that Full Enduro guy is on a XL while being 2" shorter than me. I think I'm a large w/ a 50mm stem and a 750 - 780 bar. And, I think a 150 dropper w/ the thing slammed to the hilt will clear...need to measure my Nomad to be sure tho.

    I'm a bit leery of the low HT length and cutting a steerer so short that it's not usable on any other frame...may have to use a "tall" cane creek AND spacers, altho if I use a 160 fork, the front-end height might be a bit of a nose-bleed!

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    I noticed that too all of the reports were pretty bland, if your ode a bike 3-4 days it should be enough time to get a decent review.. Although the the trails sounded less than ideal to do a real report.

    FC is kinda pushing it tho.

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguru2007 View Post
    I noticed that too all of the reports were pretty bland, if your ode a bike 3-4 days it should be enough time to get a decent review.. Although the the trails sounded less than ideal to do a real report.

    FC is kinda pushing it tho.
    Won't know anything real until the bikes hit the states or end users hands.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguru2007 View Post
    I noticed that too all of the reports were pretty bland, if your ode a bike 3-4 days it should be enough time to get a decent review.. Although the the trails sounded less than ideal to do a real report.
    Seems like a totally silly place to release a new bike without much singletrack to ride. WTF???
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  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Seems like a totally silly place to release a new bike without much singletrack to ride. WTF???
    Completely agree with this. SC didn't do enough scouting on the location prior to the launch.

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Completely agree with this. SC didn't do enough scouting on the location prior to the launch.
    But...but...but it's Patagonia!

    Which is one of the most sparsely populated regions of SA, at less than one person per square mile, and little to no mountain bike infrastructure. Many of the pictures I've seen looked like a cyclocross course in a Belgian suburb.

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  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Seems like a totally silly place to release a new bike without much singletrack to ride. WTF???
    Unless maybe because it was designed to bomb straight downhill on fireroads?

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    Don't forget drifting on gravel!

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  63. #263
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    I hear most of the R&D budget was spent in the wind tunnel...

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  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Hey FC,
    You ride the med...how tall are you, inseam? I'm having a heck of a time correlating the new numbers to a size I'm familiar with. I was on a large TB LTc...
    I'm 5'8" with a 30 inseam. Bike fits perfect withe seat near the middle of the rails maybe a few mm forward with 50 stem and 800 bars.

    Seatpost is 150mm Reverb drop and I have 1.5 inches of exposed post. Too cool.
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  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Seems like a totally silly place to release a new bike without much singletrack to ride. WTF???
    Y'all want to take over Santa Cruz marketing?

    Launches are for impact and first impressions. No media wants to do an in-depth review on a bike on some exotic, unfamiliar location. So there is that expectation between media and manufacturers now of just getting a feel for the bike.

    This location was cool cause the experience and the photos were just amazing. Also, it's summer there with 80 degree temps and daylight til 10 pm. I think they said their other choice this time of year was Africa.

    There was a lot of fire road. But with four days, there was a ton of singletrack too.

    Oh, and everyone got to take the bike home so deeper reviews should be coming.
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  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I'm 5'8" with a 30 inseam. Bike fits perfect withe seat near the middle of the rails maybe a few mm forward with 50 stem and 800 bars.

    Seatpost is 150mm Reverb drop and I have 1.5 inches of exposed post. Too cool.
    Thanks for the clue-in, FC!

  67. #267
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    action fotos by Gary Perkin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Hightower-img_8430.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-img_8450.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-img_8520.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-img_8555.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_00383.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_02811.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_03169.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_04032.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_04250.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_04430.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_04583.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    action fotos by Gary Perkin
    What bike is this?
    Santa Cruz Hightower-1047966d1454696740-santa-cruz-hightower-scb16_hightower_02811.jpg

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    That is a Juliana Roubion ridden by Anka Martin. Basically a Bronson
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That is a Juliana Roubion ridden by Anka Martin. Basically a Bronson
    HAH, 27.5...the scale is...off. Thought it was a 29er
    Nice color on that one tho!

  71. #271
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    2020 SC CC Hightower

  72. #272
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    Must......resist.....

    ugh.

  73. #273
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    If all goes right i should be demoing one a week from tomorrow , i will post up pics

  74. #274
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    Francis,

    What do you estimate the HA and SA would be in 29er mode with flip chip in high? Was thinking this setup with 29+ tire in front would be awesome for east coast riding...

  75. #275
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    My local shop is hosting a Santa Cruz demo day two weeks from tomorrow. I had been eyeing a 5010, but suddenly (and almost inexplicably my focus has changed. Is it crazy to think Santa Cruz would have a few Hightowers in their demo fleet by then?

  76. #276
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    Managed to throw a leg over one, just to size a few mins ago. I'm 6 ft. The large w/ 35mm stem feel a bit on the tight side...will need a 50mm stem. I have a 33" inseam and w/ a Reverb 150 slammed, I'd need another inch to get the needed 29" of BB-center to top of saddle right above the seat post height. BB height with the flip chip in the high position was ~13.4" w/ a 140mm fork and some pretty tiny tires...maybe 2.3 something from Maxxis. FYI, my front on my TB LTc is typically a 2.5 DHF. ~3mm of link to seat tube clearance w/ the flip chip in the high position, but the rear triangle has about 2mm of clearance to the front triangle by the BB. The low end one at ~$4.6K was 1/4lb under 30, w/o pedals, but lots of sealant. And, it doesn't feel nearly as monster trucky like the Nomad 3.

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Managed to throw a leg over one, just to size a few mins ago. I'm 6 ft. The large w/ 35mm stem feel a bit on the tight side...will need a 50mm stem. I have a 33" inseam and w/ a Reverb 150 slammed, I'd need another inch to get the needed 29" of BB-center to top of saddle right above the seat post height. BB height with the flip chip in the high position was ~13.4" w/ a 140mm fork and some pretty tiny tires...maybe 2.3 something from Maxxis. FYI, my front on my TB LTc is typically a 2.5 DHF. ~3mm of link to seat tube clearance w/ the flip chip in the high position, but the rear triangle has about 2mm of clearance to the front triangle by the BB. The low end one at ~$4.6K was 1/4lb under 30, w/o pedals, but lots of sealant. And, it doesn't feel nearly as monster trucky like the Nomad 3.
    Well done! Thanks for the recon. It's incredible that the cheapest model is sub 30 lbs. What do you think the BB comes out to with a 150mm fork? 13.5"?

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Well done! Thanks for the recon. It's incredible that the cheapest model is sub 30 lbs. What do you think the BB comes out to with a 150mm fork? 13.5"?
    I'm still tossing around the size thing a bit...might go to a XL if I can find a 35mm Havoc 35, or a 35mm RF Atlas 35. The XL HT compares well to my L Nomad 3 in WB, head tube length, seat tube length, and reach if I go to a 35mm stem...Nomad being more upright, and the HT being a bit higher and 1/2" longer. Pairing this w/ a 800mm Easton Havoc bar w/ 3/4" rise...should be rather perfect.

    But on the BB. I'll long shock, so w/ big rubber (2.5 DHF) and 160 fork, I'm hoping for 13.7, like FC said. I've got 2" on that Full Enduro guy, and the XL's seat tube length is 1.5" longer than the L which mean w/ a 150 Reverb slammed, the saddle height might be juuuuust perfect if I slide the saddle as fwd as the Reverb will normally allow.

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I'm still tossing around the size thing a bit...might go to a XL if I can find a 35mm Havoc 35, or a 35mm RF Atlas 35. The XL HT compares well to my L Nomad 3 in WB, head tube length, seat tube length, and reach if I go to a 35mm stem...Nomad being more upright, and the HT being a bit higher and 1/2" longer. Pairing this w/ a 800mm Easton Havoc bar w/ 3/4" rise...should be rather perfect.

    But on the BB. I'll long shock, so w/ big rubber (2.5 DHF) and 160 fork, I'm hoping for 13.7, like FC said. I've got 2" on that Full Enduro guy, and the XL's seat tube length is 1.5" longer than the L which mean w/ a 150 Reverb slammed, the saddle height might be juuuuust perfect if I slide the saddle as fwd as the Reverb will normally allow.
    You've never met a bike that you thought had enough travel, have you?

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    You've never met a bike that you thought had enough travel, have you?
    The Jedi at 9" is good!

  81. #281
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    U'r welcome. Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050001.jpg

    Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050008.jpg

    Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050012.jpg

    Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050014.jpg

    Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050015.jpg


    Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050023.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050019.jpg  

    Last edited by fc; 02-05-2016 at 08:17 PM.
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  82. #282
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    Easy on the eyes.Santa Cruz Hightower-p2050007-001.jpg
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  83. #283
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    There is too much badass going on can't take it!! Seriously well done it's perfect.


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    Awesome! At 5ft9 with a 32.5" inseam the only thing I'm on the fence about is how much seatpost I'll need on a medium

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Managed to throw a leg over one, just to size a few mins ago. I'm 6 ft. The large w/ 35mm stem feel a bit on the tight side...will need a 50mm stem. I have a 33" inseam and w/ a Reverb 150 slammed, I'd need another inch to get the needed 29" of BB-center to top of saddle right above the seat post height. BB height with the flip chip in the high position was ~13.4" w/ a 140mm fork and some pretty tiny tires...maybe 2.3 something from Maxxis. FYI, my front on my TB LTc is typically a 2.5 DHF. ~3mm of link to seat tube clearance w/ the flip chip in the high position, but the rear triangle has about 2mm of clearance to the front triangle by the BB. The low end one at ~$4.6K was 1/4lb under 30, w/o pedals, but lots of sealant. And, it doesn't feel nearly as monster trucky like the Nomad 3.
    Which shop?

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Y'all want to take over Santa Cruz marketing?
    I think they said their other choice this time of year was Africa.
    If they really felt like their only choices on this planet for that event was that location in Chile or some dusty double tracks in Africa then yes I would like to take over the SC annual winter press junket.

    I do project management for a living. I am pretty certain for the money that was spent I could come up with someplace that had both nice weather and lots of great singletrack.

    Just let me know where to send my resume.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    which shop?
    gbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by j3ffro View Post
    My local shop is hosting a Santa Cruz demo day two weeks from tomorrow. I had been eyeing a 5010, but suddenly (and almost inexplicably my focus has changed. Is it crazy to think Santa Cruz would have a few Hightowers in their demo fleet by then?
    Santa Cruz website list the Hightower as one of there demo bikes

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    Awesome! At 5ft9 with a 32.5" inseam the only thing I'm on the fence about is how much seatpost I'll need on a medium
    Awesome. Yes, Santa Cruz converting their fleet to have 150mm dropper post bone stock. It is really forward thinking as riding styles evolve. The key is to make room on the frame on both inserted and exposed post. Very few of the bikes I've tried are able to accomodate it for my 5'8" height and medium bike size.
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  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksheep5150 View Post
    Santa Cruz website list the Hightower as one of there demo bikes
    Maybe in the factory store fleet. It's gonna be many, many months before this on those traveling demo fleets I think. Then there'll be be a mad line. Just my guess.

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  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    if they really felt like their only choices on this planet for that event was that location in chile or some dusty double tracks in africa then yes i would like to take over the sc annual winter press junket.

    i do project management for a living. I am pretty certain for the money that was spent i could come up with someplace that had both nice weather and lots of great singletrack.

    Just let me know where to send my resume.
    ok.
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    [QUOTE=fc;12459545]Maybe in the factory store fleet. It's gonna be many, many months before this on those traveling demo fleets I think. Then there'll be be a mad line. Just my guess.

    fc[/QUOT... On there website on the demo fleet it list the bikes that will be at the events , initially the Hightower was not listed and then after the release it was added to the list .
    I hope it's there , I will follow up with some calls Monday ......needless to say I hope your guessing wrong...

  93. #293
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    [QUOTE=blacksheep5150;12459558]
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Maybe in the factory store fleet. It's gonna be many, many months before this on those traveling demo fleets I think. Then there'll be be a mad line. Just my guess.

    fc[/QUOT... On there website on the demo fleet it list the bikes that will be at the events , initially the Hightower was not listed and then after the release it was added to the list .
    I hope it's there , I will follow up with some calls Monday ......needless to say I hope your guessing wrong...
    Yes, that would be awesome!!! Keep us updated everyone if you see them. I'll ask headquarters too about demo details.
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    [QUOTE=fc;12460034]
    Quote Originally Posted by blacksheep5150 View Post

    Yes, that would be awesome!!! Keep us updated everyone if you see them. I'll ask headquarters too about demo details.
    if you find out something definite please post , I don't want to drive 11/4 hours in so cal traffic to not ride the bike ... Sc website list only the so cal demos having the Hightower

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Speaking only for myself, physiology prevents me from enjoying slack SA bikes. Seated pedaling from behind the BB makes my knees hurt.
    I hear you loud and clear Blatant, even when I was a young kid in the late 50s early 60s I had to run my saddle all the way up and make my own forward off set post to get as far over the crank as I could to pedal correctly for me. (36" inseam and 6'3" tall with really long arms)
    I still set my bikes up today as forward as possible, (I like 74 to 76 if I can get it).
    The newer bikes having the nose over the BB is just what I like, I just don't like the long front center short CS and long wheelbase and surly can't have any BB lower that 13.5 (13.9 really but 13.5 gets buy) I will have to rent one of these HighTower's and run it where I ride and see how the rest of this Geometry works for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    I hear you loud and clear Blatant, even when I was a young kid in the late 50s early 60s I had to run my saddle all the way up and make my own forward off set post to get as far over the crank as I could to pedal correctly for me. (36" inseam and 6'3" tall with really long arms)
    I still set my bikes up today as forward as possible, (I like 74 to 76 if I can get it).
    The newer bikes having the nose over the BB is just what I like, I just don't like the long front center short CS and long wheelbase and surly can't have any BB lower that 13.5 (13.9 really but 13.5 gets buy) I will have to rent one of these HighTower's and run it where I ride and see how the rest of this Geometry works for me.
    your solution is shorter crank arms and higher cadence.

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    -Francis droppin' pic's with ALL the cool toy's like it ain't no thayng!!!

    Ohlins & Push Shock. Daaaaaaaaaaayumm life's rough!


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    Quote Originally Posted by hot_beef_sundae View Post
    your solution is shorter crank arms and higher cadence.
    Will that work for me too and help fix my meniscus damage!? Go find a Nomad 1 and you'll be happy while the rest of us enjoy the advantages of newer school geometry.
    Tallboy3c : Stigmata2 : Hightower LT

  99. #299
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    i wish the bronson2 had the awesome colourways of the hightower

  100. #300
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    Can't wait to get my hands on this! Looks perfect.

  101. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by hot_beef_sundae View Post
    your solution is shorter crank arms and higher cadence.
    Actually 175 cranks are to short for me I really like 185 but I just deal with 175 for MTB because of the hacky ledges and rocks we have out here, and I run 90 to 100 candence anyway so shorter cranks do not work for me at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    Will that work for me too and help fix my meniscus damage!? Go find a Nomad 1 and you'll be happy while the rest of us enjoy the advantages of newer school geometry.
    I hear you and you are correct the shorter cranks will kill your knees, the short for me 175 cranks hurt bad enough if I am not way over the crank and spinning at least 85 cadence when pushing hard.
    I can't wait to ride the bike, I don't like the extra inch + of wheelbase with the XL bike, and the low BB I can fix but the thing is really close to what I am looking for ;-)

  102. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT View Post
    -Francis droppin' pic's with ALL the cool toy's like it ain't no thayng!!!

    Ohlins & Push Shock. Daaaaaaaaaaayumm life's rough!

    I didn't even notice the fork until you mentioned it. That is exactly my dream build.

  103. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    As an example, I went out into the shed and did some dodgy measuring on seat tube angles on a few bikes out there. Measured with the seat at riding postion which for me is about 750mm from the middle of the BB

    Canfield Riot (140mm Fork)
    Actual: 69.1
    Effective: 76.4

    Claimed: 69.8 and 77

    Chromag Rootdown (140mm Fork)
    Actual: 69.8
    Effective: 72.4

    Claimed 73

    Knolly Endorphin 26" (150mm Fork) (wifes bike so not sure on exact BB to saddle height)
    Actual: 69.6
    Effective: 74.1

    Claimed 69 and 73.5

    As you can see the guys who quote both numbers are pretty spot on but we generally have to guess the 'actual' number on bikes that don't state that in the geo charts and it makes it even more confusing when manufactures change the effective number without changing the actual geometry (Looking at you Evil and Pivot :P)
    Is it possible that Evil is not actually "changing" the effective number but instead just changing the STA listing from the low setting to the high since they only list one and people seem to want to see the steeper number?

  104. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller View Post
    Is it possible that Evil is not actually "changing" the effective number but instead just changing the STA listing from the low setting to the high since they only list one and people seem to want to see the steeper number?
    They listed both numbers and the high position number is steeper than it used to be.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  105. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    They listed both numbers and the high position number is steeper than it used to be.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    I only see one number for STA. HTA and BB have high & low settings, but not STA

  106. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclekittykiller View Post
    I only see one number for STA. HTA and BB have high & low settings, but not STA
    They've done some alterations to the website.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  107. #307
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    FC, appreciate you taking the time to provide all this insight.
    One question related to dunleavy's question.
    If you go from the 29 (with 140mm fork) to 27.5+ but want to keep the same fork and only flip the chip to the high setting, what do you estimate the head angle steepens to? Seems like its about .5 degree so it'd be about 67.3?
    Thanks in advance!

  108. #308
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    Went and VISUALLY checked them out today at The Path in SoCal. Neither color really grabbed me and screamed "bada$$" in person though if I was forced to choose, I'd probably say the Red was better. They said they've sold (2) this week so far. They had an XL built up with SLX and a size Large Red frameset in stock at the moment.

    I did ride the 5010 which is what I'm after and like every other SC medium in the last 7-8 years, it felt just right as soon as I got on and pedaled 1-0 feet in the parking lot.

  109. #309
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    The Hightower looks like a great bike, but probably too much bike for me. I find that these long, low, and slack bikes are great for descending and railing high-speed turns, but most of my riding is slow speed technical trail riding, and I find that a shorter, steeper bike tends to work better for this type of riding.

    I currently have a Tallboy and a v1 Solo, and I still find the short-travel 29er to be the best all-around bike. It just does everything well, from XC and endurance racing to technical trail riding. The Solo is really fun and does some things better than the Tallboy, but if I could keep just one it would be the Tallboy.

    I am hoping for an update to the Tallboy with a bit more modern geometry -- shorter chainstays, longer reach, slightly slacker head angle. I'm also considering the Pivot Mach429 Trail, but I wish it had shorter chainstays.

  110. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    I am hoping for an update to the Tallboy with a bit more modern geometry -- shorter chainstays, longer reach, slightly slacker head angle. I'm also considering the Pivot Mach429 Trail, but I wish it had shorter chainstays.
    A couple bikes to look at:

    - Lenz Behemoth - Lenz Sport Mountain Bikes::Behemoth | Lenz Sport
    - Evil Following - The Following | Evil Bikes
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Without riding them, by the numbers and reviews, the following is probably more snappy and agile. Regarding lifetime (pivot design) and serviceability, it is SC all the way. Also across uphill roots and rocks the vpp just grips. A bit pity that they didn't come with 125mm rear, even shorter stays and 68 angle for even more agility, but maybe there is 115mm trail version coming as with others? Probably forget all this after test ride..

  112. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    A couple bikes to look at:

    - Lenz Behemoth - Lenz Sport Mountain Bikes::Behemoth | Lenz Sport
    - Evil Following - The Following | Evil Bikes
    Thanks. I have been considering the Following. The frame is kind of heavy compared to a Tallboy, though.

    I've also been thinking of upgrading my v1 Solo to a v2 5010. I like the shorter stays and revised suspension geometry, but don't really want the slacker head tube. I've been told they climb at least as well as the v1, though. I like the Solo overall, but have never liked the Fox CTD fork, even after having it custom tuned by PUSH. I could get a new fork for it, or upgrade to a v2, which would require a frame and fork and wheelset (due to boost spacing).

  113. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    I've also been thinking of upgrading my v1 Solo to a v2 5010. I like the shorter stays and revised suspension geometry, but don't really want the slacker head tube. I've been told they climb at least as well as the v1, though. I like the Solo overall, but have never liked the Fox CTD fork, even after having it custom tuned by PUSH. I could get a new fork for it, or upgrade to a v2, which would require a frame and fork and wheelset (due to boost spacing).
    Slacker HA is awesome - i have my mk1 5010 set at -1 angleset so the native angle of the mk2 is spot on. Due to the longer top tube of the mk2 I demoed a size down from my mk1 so as to get similar reach. The mk2 does indeed climb as well as the mk1, but I found it a bit sketchy at high speed down. I didn't notice the shorter chainstays much difference tbh. The standard fox shock on the C model was pants - as bad as the fox ctd.
    After a long demo I decided to keep my mk1 and wait for a high tower!

    After a long

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    Quote Originally Posted by richt2000 View Post
    Slacker HA is awesome - i have my mk1 5010 set at -1 angleset so the native angle of the mk2 is spot on. Due to the longer top tube of the mk2 I demoed a size down from my mk1 so as to get similar reach. The mk2 does indeed climb as well as the mk1, but I found it a bit sketchy at high speed down. I didn't notice the shorter chainstays much difference tbh. The standard fox shock on the C model was pants - as bad as the fox ctd.
    After a long demo I decided to keep my mk1 and wait for a high tower!
    I do find the front end of the Solo tends to wander more than the Tallboy's on steep climbs. I can manage it, and both bikes are great climbers, but I think the TB climbs a bit better. I am attributing the wandering to the slacker head angle.

    I like the Solo overall, but I previously had a TRc with 27.5 wheels on it, and I thought it was more playful than the Solo. The only difference in geometry between the two is shorter stays on the TRc, so that's why I'm thinking the v2 5010 might feel more playful than the v1. However, I also wonder if shock valving has something to do with it (the TRc had a Fox RLC fork and RP23 shock vs. the Solo's CTD stuff). I'm also running somewhat fatter tires on the Solo (2.35 vs. 2.25 Nobby Nics), so maybe that's a bit of a factor as well.

    I may have found a buyer for my Solo frame, so I'm currently agonizing over what to do.

  115. #315
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    When you all are saying the Tallboy you mean the XC Tallboy and not the LTc right?

  116. #316
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    Threw a leg over the XL just now. A 50mm stem and 800mm bar, and a 125mm Reverb, slammed. The bike felt a lot roomier. Saddle height was perfect for my 33" inseam, but it was on a relatively flat/low WTB saddle.
    I think I'm getting a XL, and not a lrg.

  117. #317
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    Been waiting for this bike for a while.
    I ride a XXL Tallboy for XC. Being 6'5" I was hoping they would make an XXL for this bike so I could run a short stem. I know the Reach is pretty good but I want something a bit longer. Think I will get a Mondraker instead as it's the longest out there I have seen.
    Still looks pretty good thought, good job SC.

  118. #318
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    I'm pretty sure they'll make a xxl for you big guys-- I believe that's what happened with the Ltc-enough of you big dudes piping up and they made the bigger frame. Just keep it up! I'm trying a large tomorrow and will give my 2cents after.

  119. #319
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    V1 5010 is different bike with cc inline, wouldn't change good frame but change the shock and -1 headset. Wrong topic for this discussion..

  120. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    I'm pretty sure they'll make a xxl for you big guys-- I believe that's what happened with the Ltc-enough of you big dudes piping up and they made the bigger frame. Just keep it up! I'm trying a large tomorrow and will give my 2cents after.
    Yeah, I would of thought that after all the people asking last time they would of just done it!

  121. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    I do find the front end of the Solo tends to wander more than the Tallboy's on steep climbs. I can manage it, and both bikes are great climbers, but I think the TB climbs a bit better. I am attributing the wandering to the slacker head angle.

    I like the Solo overall, but I previously had a TRc with 27.5 wheels on it, and I thought it was more playful than the Solo. The only difference in geometry between the two is shorter stays on the TRc, so that's why I'm thinking the v2 5010 might feel more playful than the v1. However, I also wonder if shock valving has something to do with it (the TRc had a Fox RLC fork and RP23 shock vs. the Solo's CTD stuff). I'm also running somewhat fatter tires on the Solo (2.35 vs. 2.25 Nobby Nics), so maybe that's a bit of a factor as well.

    I may have found a buyer for my Solo frame, so I'm currently agonizing over what to do.
    Im still riding my 27.5 Blur TR and its serving me really well. The new solo is basically a TRc 27.5 conversion with a longer reach, and a lower BB. Oddly I like the shorter reach and the BB @ 13.6" is perfect for where I ride.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  122. #322
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    I hear you on the xxl thing-keep buggin them😁 Got out on a large w enves and beefy maxis tires which hooked up really well but a little sluggish -I tend to use a bit less tread in the back on a 29er but in the loose stuff it'd be great. Coming off an Ltc 2.5 yrs I have to say this bike Is made for a bit more aggressive riding to get the most-just like all the new school geo I think-weight fwd if it's flatter terrain but you can still tool around. It pedals really well and comes around turns nice and quick if you're centered/fwd. I could Hv pushed the seat fwd a bit as it was back from center a bit. Going down some steeper bumpy stuf at speed was good but think the shock could open up a bit more-need to play w pressure more next demo but I can see why some are thinking about long shocking this thing for rougher terrain. Overall fun and fast but playing the wheel size game in my head for fun factor... You guys think 2.6-7's in a 27.5 would work on this or too low? Not sure anyone makes them but just thinking...could be super versatile

  123. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    I hear you on the xxl thing-keep buggin them Got out on a large w enves and beefy maxis tires which hooked up really well but a little sluggish -I tend to use a bit less tread in the back on a 29er but in the loose stuff it'd be great. Coming off an Ltc 2.5 yrs I have to say this bike Is made for a bit more aggressive riding to get the most-just like all the new school geo I think-weight fwd if it's flatter terrain but you can still tool around. It pedals really well and comes around turns nice and quick if you're centered/fwd. I could Hv pushed the seat fwd a bit as it was back from center a bit. Going down some steeper bumpy stuf at speed was good but think the shock could open up a bit more-need to play w pressure more next demo but I can see why some are thinking about long shocking this thing for rougher terrain. Overall fun and fast but playing the wheel size game in my head for fun factor... You guys think 2.6-7's in a 27.5 would work on this or too low? Not sure anyone makes them but just thinking...could be super versatile
    Dude, how are you built...inseam and height?

    Is your LTc a large also? Did you find the HT a bit tighter or longer? Just want see if I'm on glue or if the impression I got was correct.

  124. #324
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    I'm 6' even w/33-34 pant inseam/longer legs than torso and yeah it looked like a fair amount of post out but with the 35mm-40mm stem(not sure but I'll find out) it felt pretty good-- longer than the large Ltc which had a 85 stem on it and probably should have been on an Xl... The peeps there at SCB said large should be perfect w the longer TT and reach and not sure I'd go bigger as it rides pretty big-longer WB/slacker but easy enough to get used to. I'll check out the Xl too as you have me wondering but according to their chart 6' is pretty much a large... I'm trying the plus bike soon too for $hts and giggles mostly but who knows... Let me/us know if you can try an Xl!

  125. #325
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    FC,
    Can you confirm the shock hardware is 8mm x 22mm? Thanks.

  126. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Threw a leg over the XL just now. A 50mm stem and 800mm bar, and a 125mm Reverb, slammed. The bike felt a lot roomier. Saddle height was perfect for my 33" inseam, but it was on a relatively flat/low WTB saddle.
    I think I'm getting a XL, and not a lrg.
    If you are slammed with a 125mm Reverb then you must have an extremely long torso and/or arms. I could see having a 150mm Reverb slammed with the shorter seat tubes on the newer models, but only having enough space for a 125mm dropper indicates a bike that is too big unless your proportions are quite unique.

  127. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy View Post
    If you are slammed with a 125mm Reverb then you must have an extremely long torso and/or arms. I could see having a 150mm Reverb slammed with the shorter seat tubes on the newer models, but only having enough space for a 125mm dropper indicates a bike that is too big unless your proportions are quite unique.
    I thought back and the comparison frame I also straddled was really a med (red). I thought it was a lrg, which made me think I needed a XL, because it felt like a clown-car of a bike! The lrg I straddle a few days prior was a black one. So, I really need to stay w/ a lrg. I had a 150 slammed in the lrg and it needed about another inch extension...

  128. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    Got out on a large w enves and beefy maxis tires which hooked up really well but a little sluggish -I tend to use a bit less tread in the back on a 29er but in the loose stuff it'd be great. Coming off an Ltc 2.5 yrs. . .
    How would you compare this to the Tallboy LTc? In terms of agility, pedaling, fit, suspension feel, climbing, etc... Curious on your thoughts.

  129. #329
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    Cool. That makes sense and sounds like the L is a great fit.

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    I think the large is it for 6' ers unless you're long in the torso🙂
    Comparing the Ltc-- The fit is nearly the same but with a bit more forward position from the seat angle I'd say along with the 35 or 40 mm stem it felt great. It's quicker with that shorter stem I think along with the wider bars and tight rear end compared to the old LTC with a longer rear end. It's almost as if they swapped ends on these bikes longer front shorter rear versus The opposite w the Ltc. It climbs very well although I didn't try any super steep chunky stuff. The ctd on the Ltc blew through travel quick but Felt nice and squishy where as this ramps up much more quickly with the newer progressive shocks. I think this new bike may need a little fine-tuning in the back which I'm sure will be remedied easily to allow for a little more plush feeling.

  131. #331
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    Just a FYI as I look into the Boost rear spacing and using existing hubs.

    I have a set of DT FR440, 20x110 front and 10x135 thru-bolt. I'm converting it to XD and 12x142, then getting a set of Lindarets Boostinators to get it to 12x148. The reasoning is to try and get a more symmetrical dish and thus even tension. A properly Boost'd hub will have more dish on either side, but the asymmetry still exists. So, this will be an experiment for my lighter "trail" wheelset...relacing my LB30 "Wider" (23mm inner width w/ bead hook). Lindarets reports the dish, using the same spokes, is between 1 and 2mm of symmetrical on a set of DT 240s, so fingers crossed!

    I hope Lindarets come up w/ something to deal w/ King hubs, if the even dish/tension thing works out.

  132. #332
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    Just got this build together--with a complete XT 8000 Kit and aluminum rims it weights in at 29 lbs flat with pedals. Tires are 3.0 Nobby Nics on Velocity Dually's. There is pretty decent clearance for such a big volume tire. Bike sits low...really low...should be just nasty in berms!




  133. #333
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    Sweet! Let us know how you like it w those fatties👍

  134. #334
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    Ps thanks for the info re the Lindarets!

  135. #335
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    Hi, Aaron, Al Tinti here. That didn't take long! Good weight for a large with the bigger tires. Color looks like a deeper red than it appears in other pictures.

  136. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by bde1024 View Post
    Hi, Aaron, Al Tinti here. That didn't take long! Good weight for a large with the bigger tires. Color looks like a deeper red than it appears in other pictures.
    Hey Al! It was snowing this morning so Adam and I double teamed the build. The red is much deeper, almost earthy in person--we really dig it. It is one of those 29lb bikes that feels lighter than it is so I am happy with the weight. Just finished bleeding the brakes and reverb so it will be ready for a test ride when you come and pick up your Tallboy!
    Looking for/WTB : Grove Innovations Assault Fork, Grove Innovation Hammerhead Stem or Hothead Bar Stem

  137. #337
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    Well, didn't take long to sell the Nomad. One Hightower coming, going to build up with X2, 36, and Nobls

  138. #338
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    The 135mm Hightower is actually very similar in abilities to the 150mm Bronson. So when does one pick one over the other?

    I tried to get some insight today.

    Santa Cruz Hightower-img_8865.jpg
    IPA will save America

  139. #339
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    What's your conclusion FC? And will you be out tomorrow-maybe I'll see you if so...

  140. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    What's your conclusion FC? And will you be out tomorrow-maybe I'll see you if so...
    No. I'll be out there Fri-Sat I think. Or Demo.

    Report for now is the Hightower keeps speed better on the rolling chunder. Hightower has a bigger sweet spot of course with that whole Plus thing.

    Bronson is more active and easier to throw around in the air and in corners.
    IPA will save America

  141. #341
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    Thanks! Pretty much my thoughts too and kinda torn between the two. Just wish this bike had the capability to go down to regular 27.5s... Maybe new links/chips/shock. That would be too much in one bike but could be the way we're heading🙃I'll watch for you Saturday!

  142. #342
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    You say the Hightower in rides like the Bronson. How does it compare in climbing ability? Do the bigger wheels make it a better climber? How would you rank the 5010, Bronson and Hightower when pointed uphill?
    I had plans to buy a 5010, but I was waiting for the new 29er before I pulled the trigger. Now I'm conflicted between the Hightower and 5010. I need all the advantage I can get when it comes to climbing with my friends.

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    Hey Steve. I'll chime in if I may. I've only ridden the Bronson and HT-both 29/27+ but I'd guess the 5010 is better for steeper technical climbing but depends on how chunky or rocky. More travel or Cush-27+ could be good for that. If it's more rolly or fireroad the29 for sure. The 27+ was very fun and capable but the rear tire is slidey if pushed -broke loose pretty predictably - just maybe a beefier tire. I think the HT is super versatile and 99% sure it's my next bike-just need 2wheelsets😊
    Hope that helps but demo if you can!

  144. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    Hey Steve. I'll chime in if I may. I've only ridden the Bronson and HT-both 29/27+ but I'd guess the 5010 is better for steeper technical climbing but depends on how chunky or rocky. More travel or Cush-27+ could be good for that. If it's more rolly or fireroad the29 for sure. The 27+ was very fun and capable but the rear tire is slidey if pushed -broke loose pretty predictably - just maybe a beefier tire. I think the HT is super versatile and 99% sure it's my next bike-just need 2wheelsets😊
    Hope that helps but demo if you can!
    So are you going to build with a 140 or 150 fork? Curious what would be best if someone plans to run both wheel sets and not change the fork out.

  145. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve575 View Post
    FC
    You say the Hightower in rides like the Bronson. How does it compare in climbing ability? Do the bigger wheels make it a better climber? How would you rank the 5010, Bronson and Hightower when pointed uphill?
    I had plans to buy a 5010, but I was waiting for the new 29er before I pulled the trigger. Now I'm conflicted between the Hightower and 5010. I need all the advantage I can get when it comes to climbing with my friends.

    Ok, rode these two bikes all week in the forests of Santa Cruz.

    First of all, these two bikes share the same suspension now. It is version 3 of VPP with the suspension tucked inside the frame. It has been evolved to be more supple and active than previous VPPs at the sag point. So they ride smoother now and have better traction. The Bronson has a Fox Evol rear shock and the Hightower has Rockshox rear.

    Bronson has a 66 degree head angle and the Hightower has a 67. Both have about a 74 degree seat angle. Chainstay length or what they call 'rear center' now is 17 inches for the Bronson and 17.1 for the Hightower.

    So they climb very similar. But in the end, I think the Hightower climbs better. It is easier to get in a power position since it is less slack. Traction seems a little better for the Hightower with the bigger tire and the 'shorter' chainstay relative to the tire diameter. On very techy and rocky climbs, the Hightower will climb better and rollers, it will keep its speed better. On very stop/go climbs, maybe the Bronson will do better.

    The 5010 will probably beat both of these bikes ever so slightly because it will be more firm and efficient if all are in the 'wide open' rear shock position. Also, it will be the lightest of all. The Hightower is a bit heavy at 29 lbs for the $4700 spec.

    At the end of the day, these three bikes have very similar climbing prowess. The riding position is almost the same too. Choose your travel, wheel size and Plus tire versatility option.

    Bronson in Mills Peak Trail in Downieville, CA
    Santa Cruz Hightower-4e0a2265-900x600.jpg

    5010 in new Butcher Ranch singletrack in Downieville, CA
    Santa Cruz Hightower-santa-cruz-5010-2-900x600.jpg

    Hightower in 29er mode in Chile, Patagonia region.
    Santa Cruz Hightower-scb16_hightower_04429.jpg
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    Hi fc,

    thanks for sharing and good to hear that you like very much both bikes.

    I have a Nomad and looking for adding one another bike to the stable for more epic rides and flowy singletracks. I am considering the 5010 (or Bronson) and HT both in XL. My Nomad is in XL as well (I am 6'1) and love it for EWS type of trails and I am fully aware that is a great all day ride bike as well.

    How you compare both bikes (Bronson and HT) for tech and twisty downhill. I think that for 75% of the trails I am talking about the HT is great match but I am a bit afraid of big WB in XL plus big wheels.




    [QUOTE=fc;12472725]Ok, rode these two bikes all week in the forests of Santa Cruz.

    First of all, these two bikes share the same suspension now. It is version 3 of VPP with the suspension tucked inside the frame. It has been evolved to be more supple and active than previous VPPs at the sag point. So they ride smoother now and have better traction. The Bronson has a Fox Evol rear shock and the Hightower has Rockshox rear.

    Bronson has a 66 degree head angle and the Hightower has a 67. Both have about a 74 degree seat angle. Chainstay length or what they call 'rear center' now is 17 inches for the Bronson and 17.1 for the Hightower.

    So they climb very similar. But in the end, I think the Hightower climbs better. It is easier to get in a power position since it is less slack. Traction seems a little better for the Hightower with the bigger tire and the 'shorter' chainstay relative to the tire diameter. On very techy and rocky climbs, the Hightower will climb better and rollers, it will keep its speed better. On very stop/go climbs, maybe the Bronson will do better.

    The 5010 will probably beat both of these bikes ever so slightly because it will be more firm and efficient if all are in the 'wide open' rear shock position. Also, it will be the lightest of all. The Hightower is a bit heavy at 29 lbs for the $4700 spec.

    At the end of the day, these three bikes have very similar climbing prowess. The riding position is almost the same too. Choose your travel, wheel size and Plus tire versatility option.

  147. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I thought back and the comparison frame I also straddled was really a med (red). I thought it was a lrg, which made me think I needed a XL, because it felt like a clown-car of a bike! The lrg I straddle a few days prior was a black one. So, I really need to stay w/ a lrg. I had a 150 slammed in the lrg and it needed about another inch extension...
    Hi Paully,
    how you found the WB on the XL? I like very much the geo of XL for my size 6'1 (I have Nomad XL and it is the best bike I have owned so far - my previous was Bronson L) and the TT with ST lengths fits me perfect but I am curious how the big wheels with big WB will behave on more twisty and tech downhill. thx

  148. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilu View Post
    Hi Paully,
    how you found the WB on the XL? I like very much the geo of XL for my size 6'1 (I have Nomad XL and it is the best bike I have owned so far - my previous was Bronson L) and the TT with ST lengths fits me perfect but I am curious how the big wheels with big WB will behave on more twisty and tech downhill. thx
    For me, coming from a lrg Nomad 3, the XL HT felt like trying to steer an air craft carrier in the slow and tight, but so did my lrg Nomad.
    BUT,as you know, the Nomad does better with some momentum in any environment, provided you lean and trust the bike. I'm anticipating the HT will let you conserve the momentum easier,due to the big wheels and long WB.
    I am going to swap out my XTR front caliper with a Saint, as well as 203 frt rotor because of this.

  149. #349
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    demo today

    Santa Cruz Hightower-img_1748.jpg

    took the hightower out for a 2 hour demo .at 6-3 i was on a xl, the cockpit was not set up for me. it climbs good ,but the front wanted to skate around on steep climbs,i climbed rock ledges ,roots thru rock gardens and only struck the pedal once and not hard.It feels like it wants the weight over the front more from my current scott that i ride, the seat was centered and it had a flat bar pretty much. With some riser bars,i like 40mm.A longer steamed the seat pushed forward i think it would eliminate the skating.I climbed about 1800ft.I had never ridden a bike with the slack steering before , that took a couple miles to get used to. Once pointed down i just hung on, it gobbled up the rocks at a pace i was not used to ,while feeling stable the whole way,it was so rocky i was wishing i had my knee pads on.it cornered well on the few switch backs that were at the demo spot.i tried to hit all the different terrains that were there .Comparing the bike to my scott ,it felt nimble and could be maneuvered easily . the biggest thing i took from the demo was that it reminded me when i was a kid and you stood over the bike and it felt like something you could flick around at will...I had already started collecting the parts for a hightower build ,and after riding it i know I'm building the bike i was hoping it to be....all this was just my take,on how i felt. In looking at the climbs they were between 9 to 17.4 percent grades
    Last edited by blacksheep5150; 02-13-2016 at 07:27 PM.

  150. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilu View Post
    Hi fc,

    thanks for sharing and good to hear that you like very much both bikes.

    I have a Nomad and looking for adding one another bike to the stable for more epic rides and flowy singletracks. I am considering the 5010 (or Bronson) and HT both in XL. My Nomad is in XL as well (I am 6'1) and love it for EWS type of trails and I am fully aware that is a great all day ride bike as well.

    How you compare both bikes (Bronson and HT) for tech and twisty downhill. I think that for 75% of the trails I am talking about the HT is great match but I am a bit afraid of big WB in XL plus big wheels.
    For tech and twisty downhill, they are virtually the same. Both bikes are extremely capable and maneuverable.

    The greatest strength of the Hightower is that it is so laterally stiff with an overbuilt frame and Boost front and rear wheels (usually 20% stiffer). The chainstays are very short as Boost allows this and they sacrificed the front derailleur so they can have quick handling.

    The wheelbase is long is because of a long top tube and slack head angle (long front-center) but that is hardly a bother. It is stable and quick. There might be a switchback where it requires more body english but it should be fine everywhere else.

    The Bronson will be a little more active in corners, mid-air and change of directions but it will be very close in quickness and fun factor.
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    ok so im not computer literate
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Hightower-img_1748.jpg  


  152. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksheep5150 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1049845It feels like it wants the weight over the front more from my current scott that i ride, the seat was centered and it had a flat bar pretty much. With some riser bars,i like 40mm.A longer steamed the seat pushed forward i think it would eliminate the skating.
    A riser bar will take weight off the front though.

  153. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    A riser bar will take weight off the front though.
    I agree , maybe with the seat shoved forward and a longer stem.

  154. #354
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    That red is terrible . Sick bike though. lol

  155. #355
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    That red looks sick in person--everyone who has seen it has loved it. More like a blood red than the lighter color it looks in the pictures.
    Looking for/WTB : Grove Innovations Assault Fork, Grove Innovation Hammerhead Stem or Hothead Bar Stem

  156. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    That red looks sick in person--everyone who has seen it has loved it. More like a blood red than the lighter color it looks in the pictures.
    Yeah, the red is amazing. The cool thing is it hasn't been done before.

    Really interesting that the two colors of the Hightower are winners for most. Thus, it's not polarizing and it's not so easy picking a color for oneself.
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  157. #357
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    I'm normally a fan of SC's loud colours. Seeing the red in person, don't like it and I actually think the mint/flouro orange on the black looks better in person.


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  158. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksheep5150 View Post
    I agree , maybe with the seat shoved forward and a longer stem.
    Or maybe buy a large, put the seat where it needs to be for muscle recruitment and femur length, and run a slightly longer stem. Might strike a better balance between climbing and descending.

    Slam the saddle forward to make the bike fit/work just seems wrong to me.

  159. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Man View Post
    Slam the saddle forward to make the bike fit/work just seems wrong to me.
    Yup. At some point you have to just say this particular bike doesn't work for me if you can't get it to work without going to an extreme.
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  160. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Man View Post
    Or maybe buy a large, put the seat where it needs to be for muscle recruitment and femur length, and run a slightly longer stem. Might strike a better balance between climbing and descending.

    Slam the saddle forward to make the bike fit/work just seems wrong to me.
    I don't know if it's the bike or me ,on my scott I pushed the seat forward some . I think it has to do more with the feel I'm looking for , I like to be more upright , wishing now I had took the large for a short spin . They had a really short stem on it , looked to be 40mm to me

  161. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    That red looks sick in person--everyone who has seen it has loved it. More like a blood red than the lighter color it looks in the pictures.
    To red for my preferences ....

  162. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    I'm normally a fan of SC's loud colours. Seeing the red in person, don't like it and I actually think the mint/flouro orange on the black looks better in person.
    Interesting... Pics make the red look better imo. I'll wait to reserve judgement when I see in person. A buddy has a red incoming.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  163. #363
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    Does anyone know Hightower shox lenght and travel?

  164. #364
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    Taken from the Santacruz site.
    Tech Info

    Suspension System VPPTM
    Front Derailleur No compatibility
    Headset/Headtube Integrated; IS41 upper, IS52 lower
    Seat Post 31.6mm
    Seat Clamp 36.4mm
    Eye to Eye length 200mm
    Stroke 51mm
    Fork Compatibility 140mm, 150mm
    BB Shell Standard
    Max Tire Size 3.0"
    Brake Types IS-mount disc
    Water Bottle Mounts 1 main triangle

  165. #365
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    Ouch! thanx
    And does anyone know which Fox FLOAT DPS FACTORY Evol cam fits best with Hightower VPP? LV, XV or SV?

  166. #366
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    Aluminum? Will this bike be made in ALUMINUM?
    The carbon version looks awesome! What other bikes have a VPP, DW, or similar configuration in 27.5+, 650B+or even 29+. Love the Remedy ABP in 29 and looking for ALL MOUNTAIN with no desire to ride anything less!

    Thanks
    R

  167. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by roccoeight View Post
    Aluminum? Will this bike be made in ALUMINUM?
    The carbon version looks awesome! What other bikes have a VPP, DW, or similar configuration in 27.5+, 650B+or even 29+. Love the Remedy ABP in 29 and looking for ALL MOUNTAIN with no desire to ride anything less!

    Thanks
    R
    Most likely no aluminum and no more 2x bikes in Santa Cruz's future. That is the insight I got talking to the VP of Engineering.

    The reason is aluminum is only $400 cheaper than their lower end carbon now. And very few buy them. They lose buying power and it gets more expensive. Carbon is stronger and allows more flexibility too so less work to make it awesome and less warranties.

    For 2x, they gain a lot of performance handling by not designing for the front derailleur. Also, there's a lot of 1x innovation coming down the pipe that will make it even more attractive than it is now.
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    👍👍FC. I love the 1x and sounds like more cool stuff to buy in the future😬 Someone asked earlier about fork length and I'd probably go w 150 as I'm lazy but you can only get that w the 27.5+ kit as I understand,unless building up a frame of course. I'd like to run a Fox 36 and maybe toy around w the back depending. Just don't know much about the monarch.
    I also think the sirracha red looks great as well as the black-tough call

  169. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    👍👍FC. I love the 1x and sounds like more cool stuff to buy in the future😬 Someone asked earlier about fork length and I'd probably go w 150 as I'm lazy but you can only get that w the 27.5+ kit as I understand,unless building up a frame of course. I'd like to run a Fox 36 and maybe toy around w the back depending. Just don't know much about the monarch.
    I also think the sirracha red looks great as well as the black-tough call
    You can make a Pike 140 a 150 with a simple air shaft change for like $40. Leaving it at 150 seems like the way to go.

  170. #370
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    Anybody know then these frames are gonna drop from SC? I heard folks say they loved Santa Cruz for holding the presses til the bikes were available, but so far it only seems like industry insiders and CA shops have them.

    Ordered one online the day the news hit the interwebs, nothing since.

  171. #371
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    Santa Cruz Hightower

    All my local shops had their first shipment within a couple days after the news and I'm in Canada. My buddy had his two days after, unfortunately it's not quite riding weather around here.


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  172. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksheep5150 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    took the hightower out for a 2 hour demo .at 6-3 i was on a xl, the cockpit was not set up for me. it climbs good ,but the front wanted to skate around on steep climbs,i climbed rock ledges ,roots thru rock gardens and only struck the pedal once and not hard.It feels like it wants the weight over the front more from my current scott that i ride, the seat was centered and it had a flat bar pretty much. With some riser bars,i like 40mm.A longer steamed the seat pushed forward i think it would eliminate the skating.I climbed about 1800ft.I had never ridden a bike with the slack steering before , that took a couple miles to get used to. Once pointed down i just hung on, it gobbled up the rocks at a pace i was not used to ,while feeling stable the whole way,it was so rocky i was wishing i had my knee pads on.it cornered well on the few switch backs that were at the demo spot.i tried to hit all the different terrains that were there .Comparing the bike to my scott ,it felt nimble and could be maneuvered easily . the biggest thing i took from the demo was that it reminded me when i was a kid and you stood over the bike and it felt like something you could flick around at will...I had already started collecting the parts for a hightower build ,and after riding it i know I'm building the bike i was hoping it to be....all this was just my take,on how i felt. In looking at the climbs they were between 9 to 17.4 percent grades
    Thats sound like you had fun, I am also 6'3" and road a large at a dealer near me and it was way to small, I wouldn't be able to run the seal forward at all and there would almost not be enough dropper post insertion in the frame to suit me and I would have to run at least a 100mm stem and that would not be good.
    The XL felt much better, I was able to run the seat forward and I could run a 50mm stem and the Dropper post insertion would be more than safe.
    I should be able to Demo them this coming weekend and I really want to see how badly it shakes its head and lifts on steep climbs, I am glad you were able to test that and what you found, I will add what I find for me, thanks for the good report !

  173. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    For me, coming from a lrg Nomad 3, the XL HT felt like trying to steer an air craft carrier in the slow and tight, but so did my lrg Nomad.
    BUT,as you know, the Nomad does better with some momentum in any environment, provided you lean and trust the bike. I'm anticipating the HT will let you conserve the momentum easier,due to the big wheels and long WB.
    I am going to swap out my XTR front caliper with a Saint, as well as 203 frt rotor because of this.
    thx, you are right, my N3 XL with 122,4cm of WB is amazing with tight turns under good speed and I hope it will be applicable to the HT in XL as well
    just have to wait to take a demo but in my country is rather time for ski freeride than biking in the big mountains

  174. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Yeah, the red is amazing. The cool thing is it hasn't been done before.

    Really interesting that the two colors of the Hightower are winners for most. Thus, it's not polarizing and it's not so easy picking a color for oneself.
    I saw it in person and thought the red is actually very close to the color of Sriracha. Which made me drool even more.

  175. #375
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    Anyone have ideas re wheels?? I'm thinking of buying the plus bike so it's at 150 and I won't have to mess with the air shaft unless I really don't like it, then buy some LB or other wheels...what width is now recommended for a 2.3-4 29er wheel? Is 38 outer too much?
    Doing this just allows me to goof around w plus size stuff too ,and spend more money...

  176. #376
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    Curious, could one ride snow with 27.5+?
    Say like cross country groomers or the like?
    I do NOT like vpp but could probably adapt. Torn between the Hightower & following and maybe the ripley ls or new endorphin...haha... to many nice bikes!

  177. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    Anyone have ideas re wheels?? I'm thinking of buying the plus bike so it's at 150 and I won't have to mess with the air shaft unless I really don't like it, then buy some LB or other wheels...what width is now recommended for a 2.3-4 29er wheel? Is 38 outer too much?
    Doing this just allows me to goof around w plus size stuff too ,and spend more money...
    I'm liking around a 30mm internal width and going with Noblwheels.

    TR36 with Industry 9s

    Very similar rim design to Nox, sorry Nox but I just can't afford you anymore.

    Nobls should end up being an excellent price if you're in America considering the US-Can exchange rate.

    They also have a new TR33 coming out very soon (27 internal). All rims are available in a regular layup or a HD layup for heavier abuse.

    Oh, to match up with 2.3-2.4 of course there's differing opinions on internal rim width, seems like general consensus would suggest around 27mm, and 30mm being a little more progressive.

  178. #378
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    Anyone in the 5 9 height range with a build done yet? What size did u get? 5 9 is the line between Med and Large frame. Generally I am at the low range of a Med in other brands but the geometry lists the reach on the hightower as relatively long compared to other bikes. Thanks ahead of time for the reply!

  179. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by wytemike21 View Post
    Anyone in the 5 9 height range with a build done yet? What size did u get? 5 9 is the line between Med and Large frame. Generally I am at the low range of a Med in other brands but the geometry lists the reach on the hightower as relatively long compared to other bikes. Thanks ahead of time for the reply!
    You are most definitely a medium in the Hightower and in the new array of Santa Cruz bikes.
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  180. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Curious, could one ride snow with 27.5+?
    Say like cross country groomers or the like?
    I do NOT like vpp but could probably adapt. Torn between the Hightower & following and maybe the ripley ls or new endorphin...haha... to many nice bikes!
    Yes, snow is fine on the 27.5 Plus tires. Packed snow yes, which is most of snow riding anyway.

    Also remember that packed snow riding is a lot about tire pressure. Bring it low, like 10-12 psi.
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  181. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmony View Post
    Anyone have ideas re wheels?? I'm thinking of buying the plus bike so it's at 150 and I won't have to mess with the air shaft unless I really don't like it, then buy some LB or other wheels...what width is now recommended for a 2.3-4 29er wheel? Is 38 outer too much?
    Doing this just allows me to goof around w plus size stuff too ,and spend more money...
    Yes, this is good. 150mm is best for both wheelsizes so changes switching around is easy. Bike rides fine with either 29er or 27.5 Plus.
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  182. #382
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    Thanks for the wheel info Robnow and FC! Snow on one of these sounds fun too but I'd rather use 1 or 2 planks⛷🚵🏼😜
    Btw- if you haven't tried the new vpp whale, it's quite a bit different from the old and all good

  183. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    I'm liking around a 30mm internal width and going with Noblwheels.

    TR36 with Industry 9s



    Very similar rim design to Nox, sorry Nox but I just can't afford you anymore.

    Nobls should end up being an excellent price if you're in America considering the US-Can exchange rate.

    They also have a new TR33 coming out very soon (27 internal). All rims are available in a regular layup or a HD layup for heavier abuse.

    Oh, to match up with 2.3-2.4 of course there's differing opinions on internal rim width, seems like general consensus would suggest around 27mm, and 30mm being a little more progressive.
    Agree. 30mm internal width is the optimal for 2.3-4 tyres.
    No going wider if you have some plus size wheels too.

    30mm doesn't distort the tread like the 34 or 40mm internals, but gives noticably more grip. Its a shame roval fattie carbons dont come in boost yet - amazing wheels.

  184. #384
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    I've been reading the various HT threads and still haven't seen a frame/shock weight? Especially for the CC which what's available as a frame only.
    Safe riding,

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  185. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've been reading the various HT threads and still haven't seen a frame/shock weight? Especially for the CC which what's available as a frame only.
    5.8 lbs for the CC large
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    Not bad. I was expecting 6+ lb for a large.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    5.8 lbs for the CC large
    Thank you!

    That's with shock?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Thank you!

    That's with shock?
    I've had similar thoughts about recent SC frame weights. My only guess is that the new linkage arrangement necessitates more material in a larger part of the frame, but that's just a guess. If I recall, the gen 1 Tallboy frames were down around 4.5 pounds with shock.

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    Got to checkout a hightower in person this weekend in sriracha red. Didnt like the color as much as i thought i would after seeing pictures, but the bike is probably the perfect bike for me. Hopefully will be my next bike.

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    At least they make a black colour option. With a little black protective tape you can stealth out your HT and get a more ninja-approved bike.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Thank you!

    That's with shock?

    -In general, all manufacturers publish weights with Shock & Seat Colar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    I've had similar thoughts about recent SC frame weights. My only guess is that the new linkage arrangement necessitates more material in a larger part of the frame, but that's just a guess. If I recall, the gen 1 Tallboy frames were down around 4.5 pounds with shock.
    My Gen1 XL Tallboy was a tick over 5.2 pounds with Shock, Seat Colar and Headset and my XL LTc was around 5.6 if I recall correctly with all the hardware...

    -I'd say these new HT's are heavier due to the added vertical support on the drive-side of the swing arm. The linkages likely add a little bit too....

    Still a very respectable frame weight for a bike meant to take a beating like this one IMO.

  193. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT View Post
    -In general, all manufacturers publish weights with Shock & Seat Colar.
    That's great. My question is whether the number FC posted is frame only or with shock? His answer wasn't clear and rather than make assumptions why don't we just let him clarify when he has a chance and then we've got it locked down?
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Thank you!

    That's with shock?
    Just so I am not being lazy I ran down this info: Tested: Santa Cruz Hightower Mountain Bike | Bicycling

    A size large CC frame weighs in at 5.88 pounds with rear shock and hardware.
    Same weight given here: New Santa Cruz Hightower doubles down on 29 & 27+ as TallBoy LT Replacement - Bikerumor

    ~5.9lbs w/ shock is a decent weight compared to the competition.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  195. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's great. My question is whether the number FC posted is frame only or with shock? His answer wasn't clear and rather than make assumptions why don't we just let him clarify when he has a chance and then we've got it locked down?
    Yeah, that's with shock, seat collar and derailleur hanger and frame protection. They said they get annoyed with other manufacturers who published weights without these standard elements.
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  196. #396
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    Here is their 27.5 Plus tire and their 29er side by side. There's about an inch of diameter difference.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Hightower-p2150011.jpg  

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    Ugh I want this bike. I've been mulling over a trail 29er for a awhile. I've already started purging bike and ski gear to get the cash together.

    I'll be ready to pull the trigger soon and hoping availability isn't problem. I have a feeling this bike will sell quick, considering (according to a reputable LBS) the Tallboy LT was their best selling bike (?)
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  198. #398
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    Someone asked about Actual Seat Tube Angle. I measured it to be 68.9 degrees.

    Virtual Seat Post Angle is 74.3 degree (bb to seat virtual angle at a predefined seat height.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Hightower-p2150034.jpg  

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    ok so about to sell my LTc for a HT and hoping i can get some advice from HT owners

    im 6,3 so i will be on a XL (LTc was also a XL) and im interested in how the ride is for someone coming from a LTc to a HT ? can anyone give some comparison ?

  200. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Someone asked about Actual Seat Tube Angle. I measured it to be 68.9 degrees.

    Virtual Seat Post Angle is 74.3 degree (bb to seat virtual angle at a predefined seat height.
    Thanks Francis.
    That's certainly gonna cause some problems for some of us taller guys.
    Tallboy3c : Stigmata2 : Hightower LT

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