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  1. #2401
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnt_goat View Post
    Sounds like you're running too high pressure unless you're well over 200 lb. I'm close to 200 lb with gear, and I think I ran about 13-15 psi in the stock 27x3 WTB Rangers.
    Any lower feels like Iím riding on a flat. Iím 5í8 165 lb.

  2. #2402
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkydogfart View Post
    What internal width rims do you use with the 29x2.6?
    Derby 30mm

  3. #2403
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    @SCTerp, how light are your 29 x 2.6 tyres? Do you notice the extra weight that much?

    Tempted to build up a set of 29Ē wheels to try this.

  4. #2404
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroH20 View Post
    Any lower feels like Iím riding on a flat. Iím 5í8 165 lb.
    I guess it all comes down to preference. FWIW, I'm running Ranger 27.5x3, light/high grip at about 15/16 (front/rear) and it feels good to me. I'm 220 lbs if I skip lunch...
    "Caught my first tube this morning....sir!"

  5. #2405
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroH20 View Post
    Maybe itís me (poor performance) or the WTB 27.5x3 thatís rolling slow? Running an avg 18 - 22mhp in dirt and some dude on 29er rolled pass me likeÖÖ.and he just keeps going until Iím struggling to keep up and let him go. I do go a little faster with more air in my tires, but the bike feels bouncy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroH20 View Post
    Iím still testing but usually Iím running 18 front and 20 rear, seems to be the most comfortable to me. Thereís a few more upgrades i need to do before building a 29er.

    Which frame you using for the 29er?
    Quote Originally Posted by mnt_goat View Post
    Sounds like you're running too high pressure unless you're well over 200 lb. I'm close to 200 lb with gear, and I think I ran about 13-15 psi in the stock 27x3 WTB Rangers.
    I agree the air pressure being too much, depending on weight.

    I'm on the 2.8 version plus size. I'm finding 15 rear and less in the front is ideal. With the high volume it really is sensitive to PSI swing in either direction. A better ride with less pressure but is definitely prone to rim strikes. Add air and the bike is a pogo stick, just hold on and go for the ride it takes you on. LOL

    I dented a rim pretty badly last ride out. Tire insert is on the way!
    I didn't really do anything wrong. Maybe I burped on the flow trail hitting berms harder than usual. Unlikely I think. I assume I hit a rock (which caused a pinch flat scenario) and dinged the rim, or the slight decrease in air pressure as a result allowed the rim dent a little later in the ride. Either way, I must have over ridden for the PSI I had at that time.

    Lets call my weight 155 as I am unsure and my scale says less but is presumed inaccurate.

    As for performance, yeah the larger tire is like draggin an anchor. It took months for me to believe that. One of my first rides, my riding buddy that day said at the beginning "I'm gonna try not to let you get away" when I asked if he wanted to lead.
    Well I thought I was going to throw up just trying to keep him from running me over.

    Later on a downhill section (basically an access road with dirt and gravel) he was still increasing the gap on me.
    I think I'm getting it figured out, 6 months later. I've posted some decent times lately that have surprised me.
    It's been a month since I've ridden it (when I got the flat) due to not having time to fix the damaged tire until this week.

    I'll see how much of a tank it is again after riding the 29er x 2.35 tires for a month exclusively.

  6. #2406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Lets call my weight 155 as I am unsure and my scale says less but is presumed inaccurate.

    As for performance, yeah the larger tire is like draggin an anchor. It took months for me to believe that. One of my first rides, my riding buddy that day said at the beginning "I'm gonna try not to let you get away" when I asked if he wanted to lead.
    Well I thought I was going to throw up just trying to keep him from running me over.

    Later on a downhill section (basically an access road with dirt and gravel) he was still increasing the gap on me.
    I think I'm getting it figured out, 6 months later. I've posted some decent times lately that have surprised me.
    It's been a month since I've ridden it (when I got the flat) due to not having time to fix the damaged tire until this week.

    I'll see how much of a tank it is again after riding the 29er x 2.35 tires for a month exclusively.
    Oh my god dude, thatís hilariousÖ Iíll lower the pressures and report back.

  7. #2407
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    Lower PSI but a couple PSI at a time. Nothing too extreme. I like a few PSI less in the front tire.

  8. #2408
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    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    @SCTerp, how light are your 29 x 2.6 tyres? Do you notice the extra weight that much?

    Tempted to build up a set of 29Ē wheels to try this.
    Maxxis lists the Rekon at 890g and the Ikon at 805g. (Side rant - Maxxis now lists their tires in pounds on their site which is really dumb. But I like their tires...) I just looked back at my phone pics and the Ikon was slightly lighter than advertised at 793g on my scale. I didn't weigh the Rekon or deleted the pic.

    You'll note that this is clearly not an "all-mountain" setup but works really well for where and how I ride. I've been on this setup for months now with zero issues. I'm certain if you go with Minions in 2.6, you're going to feel the extra heft.

    For comparison, when I was running 2.4s it was Bontragers with an XR4 (780g) front and the prior XR3 (745g) rear. There was no notable difference in feeling from a weight perspective when going from the Bontragers to the Maxxis'.

    I've been on a hardtails exclusively (likely to change once the Tallboy 4 drops) for the last 18-24 months and the 2.6 is the best setup I've found for traction, handling, feel AND comfort. YMMV.
    Last edited by SCTerp; 07-23-2019 at 12:52 PM.

  9. #2409
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcoppola View Post
    Thanks for all the suggestions!
    - Rear Axle: Tight and greased.
    - Rear Dropouts: Just re-tightened, added never-seize when i adjusted my derailleur.
    - Saddle & Post: Haven't tightened this stuff, but the problem persists whether I'm sitting or standing.
    - Bottom Bracket: I think I need the SRAM specific tool to spin the BB off. So I haven't done this.

    Maybe It's the BB. I'll have to get the tool and check.
    As suspected...... the BB was the culprit. Got the ParkTools BBT-79 with intents to spin off the BB, clean, grease and re-torque. I go to spin off one side, takes a little effort; go to spin off the other side... lo and behold its spins right off without any torque on the ratchet!

    Put it all back together, creak is gone! I'm a happy camper. Thanks all.

  10. #2410
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    Any word on the 2020 Chameleon? My LBS is blowing out the 2019's.

  11. #2411
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    Any word on the 2020 Chameleon? My LBS is blowing out the 2019's.

  12. #2412
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCTerp View Post
    Maxxis lists the Rekon at 890g and the Ikon at 805g. (Side rant - Maxxis now lists their tires in pounds on their site which is really dumb. But I like their tires...) I just looked back at my phone pics and the Ikon was slightly lighter than advertised at 793g on my scale. I didn't weigh the Rekon or deleted the pic.

    You'll note that this is clearly not an "all-mountain" setup but works really well for where and how I ride. I've been on this setup for months now with zero issues. I'm certain if you go with Minions in 2.6, you're going to feel the extra heft.

    For comparison, when I was running 2.4s it was Bontragers with an XR4 (780g) front and the prior XR3 (745g) rear. There was no notable difference in feeling from a weight perspective when going from the Bontragers to the Maxxis'.

    I've been on a hardtails exclusively (likely to change once the Tallboy 4 drops) for the last 18-24 months and the 2.6 is the best setup I've found for traction, handling, feel AND comfort. YMMV.
    I weighed my REKON and IKON a few days ago, ironically.

    The IKON came in about 120 grams lighter than the REKON. Weighed on an analog scale. The REKON may have had a bit of dried sealant but not enough to significantly alter the findings.

    Hopefully it's a result of smaller knobs, not cheaper/thinner sidewall (both EXO casing).

  13. #2413
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCTerp View Post
    Maxxis lists the Rekon at 890g and the Ikon at 805g. (Side rant - Maxxis now lists their tires in pounds on their site which is really dumb. But I like their tires...) I just looked back at my phone pics and the Ikon was slightly lighter than advertised at 793g on my scale. I didn't weigh the Rekon or deleted the pic.

    You'll note that this is clearly not an "all-mountain" setup but works really well for where and how I ride. I've been on this setup for months now with zero issues. I'm certain if you go with Minions in 2.6, you're going to feel the extra heft.

    For comparison, when I was running 2.4s it was Bontragers with an XR4 (780g) front and the prior XR3 (745g) rear. There was no notable difference in feeling from a weight perspective when going from the Bontragers to the Maxxis'.

    I've been on a hardtails exclusively (likely to change once the Tallboy 4 drops) for the last 18-24 months and the 2.6 is the best setup I've found for traction, handling, feel AND comfort. YMMV.
    Great feedback - thanks for that. I've got 27.5 x 2.8" WTB Rangers in the TCS Light/Fast Rolling casing which are supposedly about 800g, so it seems I probably wouldn't notice much difference with a 29 x 2.6 tyres similar to yours. Certainly the Rangers aren't up for very rugged terrain either, although that's when I'm typically opting for my Hightower anyway.

  14. #2414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Any word on the 2020 Chameleon? My LBS is blowing out the 2019's.
    I posted a link to them the other day in a different thread. You can see them on the EVO website.

    Looks like no changes other than SX and colorways. Black looks cool.

  15. #2415
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    Quote Originally Posted by forealz View Post
    I posted a link to them the other day in a different thread. You can see them on the EVO website.

    Looks like no changes other than SX and colorways. Black looks cool.
    Thanks. On Evo, I saw only the A D model. Has Santa Cruz scrapped all the other build kits/versions? The SC website isn't showing the full range of them any more. Any other info out there?

  16. #2416
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    Looks like the new colors as frames and complete builds are now available online!

  17. #2417
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsanjuan31 View Post
    Looks like the new colors as frames and complete builds are now available online!
    I've tried Safari and Chrome, but can't get the Santa Cruz website to show the full specs on the builds, and it's only showing D and R builds (and D+ and R+). Are the higher end builds gone?

  18. #2418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    I've tried Safari and Chrome, but can't get the Santa Cruz website to show the full specs on the builds, and it's only showing D and R builds (and D+ and R+). Are the higher end builds gone?
    That's what it seems like, unless maybe they bring it later down the line. I plan on doing a frame up build from some stuff I took off my HT.

  19. #2419
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    I can see the SE+ build on the web site. Btw, SC must only be shipping the 2020s now. My LBS ordered a Carbon frame for me using store credit (long story) and based on the S/N utilizing a QR code (https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en...-serial-number), it appears to be a 2020, which was a pleasant surprise.

  20. #2420
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    I did my first proper ride on my 27.5+ with Cushcore installed in the rear wheel. I have to say, it was amazing. I ran it at @15psi where normally I used @18psi. It is really rocky here, and I weigh about 115kg geared up. I didnít have a single rim strike from the rocks, and I never ran out of traction. All in all, Iím a believer. In the previous 4 rides, I had two punctures from rocks. One so bad it even dented the inside wall of the rim. So yeah, Iím happy with how it rides, and fine with the extra 200g the cushcore weighs.

  21. #2421
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    Anyone know the actual weight of the AL and carbon frames? Or the weight difference between the two? Press releases claim 250g weight savings of the carbon frame, but doesn't seem like much on a 5.5 lb medium aluminum frame. And, a 250g difference wouldn't seem to justify carbon frame's near-doubled price of the Al frame.

    Anyone buy and weigh a carbon frame? Thanks.

  22. #2422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Anyone know the actual weight of the AL and carbon frames? Or the weight difference between the two? Press releases claim 250g weight savings of the carbon frame, but doesn't seem like much on a 5.5 lb medium aluminum frame. And, a 250g difference wouldn't seem to justify carbon frame's near-doubled price of the Al frame.

    Anyone buy and weigh a carbon frame? Thanks.
    I think it was discussed in THIS forum a while back.

    Scroll backwards and I think you'll find the weights listed.

  23. #2423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Anyone know the actual weight of the AL and carbon frames? Or the weight difference between the two? Press releases claim 250g weight savings of the carbon frame, but doesn't seem like much on a 5.5 lb medium aluminum frame. And, a 250g difference wouldn't seem to justify carbon frame's near-doubled price of the Al frame.

    Anyone buy and weigh a carbon frame? Thanks.
    I have L Al frame and I think it was 2.6kg / 5.7lb out of the box. Donít know what the C frame weighs but youíre probably in the ball park in terms of the difference - itís not that much.

    Comparing the C and Al in terms of weight vs. cost alone will never stack up. The C frame wasnít out when I bought mine, but if I was getting a Chameleon now, Iíd still go for Al and spend more on the build kit.

  24. #2424
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    We built this up for my wife last week.....

    Small Al frame
    King SS/RF AR27 Wheels
    Surly 21t Cog
    Truvativ AKA Cranks/30t Eagle Ring
    SLX 6000 Brakes 180/160mm
    Niner RDO Carbon Flat Top Bar
    Salsa Trail Guide 40mm Stem
    Thomson Post
    Maxxis Forkaster 2.35/Rekon Race 2.2

    Fox fork is temp....Revelation RC 120mm enroute.

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_5308.jpg
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  25. #2425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Anyone know the actual weight of the AL and carbon frames? Or the weight difference between the two? Press releases claim 250g weight savings of the carbon frame, but doesn't seem like much on a 5.5 lb medium aluminum frame. And, a 250g difference wouldn't seem to justify carbon frame's near-doubled price of the Al frame.

    Anyone buy and weigh a carbon frame? Thanks.
    The 250g difference is definitely wrong. I have a medium Carbon Chameleon and the frame weighed 4.2 pounds with the axle.
    2019 Santa Cruz Bronson CC
    2016 Santa Cruz Nomad CC

  26. #2426
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny.mendes View Post
    The 250g difference is definitely wrong. I have a medium Carbon Chameleon and the frame weighed 4.2 pounds with the axle.
    Yes, I have found some non-US reviews that set the record straight: the difference between the aluminum and carbon frames is 525 grams.

  27. #2427
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    Half a kilogram sounds better. That would put the C frame weight at about 2kg, which is pretty chunky for a hardtail - it must be pretty robust.

  28. #2428
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    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    Half a kilogram sounds better. That would put the C frame weight at about 2kg, which is pretty chunky for a hardtail - it must be pretty robust.
    I think the L carbon frame weighs 1.8kg, but suspect it is built solidly for chunky trails, DJ, and lifetime frame warranty. Definitely not a lightweight racer, but neither am I.

  29. #2429
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    Here is my recent build, 20' frame size large 29er
    halo wheels, king headset, trp brakes, marz z1 fork.
    xt 11 speed with xx1 cassette.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-fspp7487.jpg  


  30. #2430
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    Very nice...

  31. #2431
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    I really like that color!

  32. #2432
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    I just noticed the chainstay protector has started coming off on my Chameleon. Is there a glue I can use to stick rubber to aluminum? Seems like a strange combination.

  33. #2433
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    My suggestion would be to get some shoe repair glue to reattach chainstay protectors - makes sure itís clean before applying and use a cable tie to clamp it while it cures. It might pay to check that the glue wonít affect the paint on the frame - a water based adhesive would be a safer bet.

    I did something similar with a downtube protector on a Giant a few years ago and it never came off.

  34. #2434
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
    I just noticed the chainstay protector has started coming off on my Chameleon. Is there a glue I can use to stick rubber to aluminum? Seems like a strange combination.
    Take the gears off and run it SS......then there is no chain slap....thus no need for the protector.
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.:nono:

    Ebikes are not bicycles :nono:

  35. #2435
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
    I just noticed the chainstay protector has started coming off on my Chameleon. Is there a glue I can use to stick rubber to aluminum? Seems like a strange combination.
    Just noticed the same on mine. I cleaned the area with alcohol then did a wrap of mastic tape along where it was lifting. Not sure gluing that section that was lifting would have held up for long with more rubbing hence the wrap.

  36. #2436
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    Came across a great deal on my new-to-me Chameleon, and couldnít pass it up. Original owner was a road cyclist that worked at a bike shop, and decided to try the MTB game. He said he rode it 3 times and didnít like it, so I became the new owner. Bike was mint, and I couldnít be more stoked. I added some colorful pedals and handlebar grips for character, a dropper post, and have had a blast. Pumped to be a part of the Santa Cruz family.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  37. #2437
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    Hi guys! I am running Chameleon Plus bike(WTB 27.5 x 3.0 trailboss front and 27.5x 2.8 Ranger rear).

    I am curious if anyone here tried 2.6 like Schwable or Maxxis tires(kinda wanna get the new Onza Porcupine tire in near future). Of course the BB will drop but how low because my raceface aeffect crank arm is 175mm(i don't know why they chose this length) unless i get 165mm then i can ride 2.6 on it? Is it possible? Sorry i could not find any source about 27.5 x 2.6 on the chameleon anywhere...so i decided to ask here. Yes i am thinking running 27.5 x 2.6 front and rear unless i go 2.8 front and 2.6 rear just to be safe?

  38. #2438
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    Hey guys,
    I just get a new Chameleon 27+ and I just convert to SS 29r 2.6 teravail tires.
    Probably I'm running the wheels too close to the frame, no rub but the clearance is really small, do you guys think the 29r dropout will improve the clearance or I should move the wheel a bit forward.
    I'm in the middle of the dropout right now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-chameleon.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_20190905_175401692.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_20190905_175345707.jpg  


  39. #2439
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    The 29er dropouts will raise your rear axle vertically with respect to the frame by about 6mm from memory, so it is doubtful that it will help in any way. In fact it might reduce clearance with your seat tube looking at your first photo.

    You might be best to wind out the existing dropout as far as it goes to maximise the clearance around the BB area, as thatís where all the gunk is going to accumulate. Do have clearance issues around the seat stays as well?

  40. #2440
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    Thanks for the advice. I will pull the dropout a bit far and see if that create more clearance, seat stay looks a bit better, will try over the weekend and see how that work,
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_20190906_080455601.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_20190906_080536415.jpg  

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_20190906_080509142.jpg  


  41. #2441
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorbanana View Post
    Here is my recent build, 20' frame size large 29er
    halo wheels, king headset, trp brakes, marz z1 fork.
    xt 11 speed with xx1 cassette.
    Awesome looking bike! What do you have your fork travel set at?

  42. #2442
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    Anyone running regulars 2.3/2.5 27.5 tires ?
    can be possible or the BB will be too low .
    Just ask

  43. #2443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel212 View Post
    Anyone running regulars 2.3/2.5 27.5 tires ?
    can be possible or the BB will be too low .
    Just ask
    I have not tried to run smaller than 27.5x2.8 tires.

    That being said, I had tons of pedal strikes when I had the original 120mm travel fork. Switching to a 140mm travel fork raised my BB so I barely have any nowadays. I have a large frame with 175mm crank arm lengths. So do you have a problem with pedal strikes with the stock 27.5+ tires? If not, you could put shorter cranks on, or increase the travel in your fork if you end up having problems with pedal rock strikes. Otherwise, the lower the BB, the more stable right? If you go to 2.5Ē tires, thatís only about 7.5mm difference compared to my 2.8ís. I Wouldnít think it would hurt the ride, just slacken the geometry. Especially compared to running 29+ on 27.5 dropouts.

  44. #2444
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    Almost done! It took about 2 weeks for the LBS to get a size small frame in the new black color. The build is pretty simple, most of the stuff I had from a previous build. I just finished installing the Invisiframe and new Santa Cruz decals.

    All that's left is tire sealant, and install the chain, route shifter cable, install/bleed the brakes and bleed the dropper post. The Reverb came off my Hightower otherwise I would've opted for a Transfer.


  45. #2445
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    hey guys, i have a 2017 size M chameleon coming my way. what is the seatpost length that i should pick up for the frame? what is the minimum / maximum length? thanks in advance!

  46. #2446
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    Hey guys. Noob question here.
    Will the forks below fit the chameleon? which would be better?
    Iím ready to start upgrading it and can get them brand new little over $600 just not sure if it will work haha.
    Thx in advance.

    1. ROCKSHOX PIKE RCT3 FORK 29" 130MM MAXLE LITE15 SOLO AIR CROWN ADJUST TAPERED 51MM OS A2,

    2. ROCKSHOX PIKE RCT3 FORK 29" / 27.5"+ 130MM SOLO AIR BOOST MAXLE LITE 15 X 110 CROWN ADJUST TAPERED 51MM OFFSET, A2

  47. #2447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grooverider View Post
    Hey guys. Noob question here.
    Will the forks below fit the chameleon? which would be better?
    Iím ready to start upgrading it and can get them brand new little over $600 just not sure if it will work haha.
    Thx in advance.

    1. ROCKSHOX PIKE RCT3 FORK 29" 130MM MAXLE LITE15 SOLO AIR CROWN ADJUST TAPERED 51MM OS A2,

    2. ROCKSHOX PIKE RCT3 FORK 29" / 27.5"+ 130MM SOLO AIR BOOST MAXLE LITE 15 X 110 CROWN ADJUST TAPERED 51MM OFFSET, A2
    I am riding a 140mm Pike rct3 29Ē/27.5Ē+ 51mm offset. I love the way it rides! The 130 should be awesome too!

  48. #2448
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkydogfart View Post
    I am riding a 140mm Pike rct3 29Ē/27.5Ē+ 51mm offset. I love the way it rides! The 130 should be awesome too!
    Cheers,
    considering I'm never going to get a tire wider than stock and definitely not going 27.5+ should I just get the #1 version or there are more benefits in the #2 one?

    On a side not I was told the 140mm Pike would be same price if I want it.
    Now I'm really confused which would work best.
    The joys of being a noob.

  49. #2449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grooverider View Post
    Cheers,
    considering I'm never going to get a tire wider than stock and definitely not going 27.5+ should I just get the #1 version or there are more benefits in the #2 one?.
    According to the specs, the 2018 version has a 15mm difference in max tire width between the 29 and the 27.5 versions with the 27.5+ being wider. There is a 20mm difference in max tire height with the 29er being taller. The 2019 specs show that the maximum tire width is the same, but the 29er model having a taller max tire height @40mm more than 27.5 version.

    So really depends on what year model of the forks your looking at. They are both 110x15 axle spacing right?

    I would say it depends on what your planning on doing with your bike. If your happy with current width tires, but may go to a taller wheel, the 29er version might be better for you

    I assumed you were using 27.5+, but now that I re read your post it looks like you are on 29ers..

    Here are the links to the specs pages. The second link is to the Spanish language pdf, but the language in the tables is still English.

    https://www.sram.com/contentassets/e...sh_rev_a_0.pdf

    https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/...nish_rev_d.pdf

  50. #2450
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkydogfart View Post
    According to the specs, the 2018 version has a 15mm difference in max tire width between the 29 and the 27.5 versions with the 27.5+ being wider. There is a 20mm difference in max tire height with the 29er being taller. The 2019 specs show that the maximum tire width is the same, but the 29er model having a taller max tire height @40mm more than 27.5 version.

    So really depends on what year model of the forks your looking at. They are both 110x15 axle spacing right?

    I would say it depends on what your planning on doing with your bike. If your happy with current width tires, but may go to a taller wheel, the 29er version might be better for you

    I assumed you were using 27.5+, but now that I re read your post it looks like you are on 29ers..

    Here are the links to the specs pages. The second link is to the Spanish language pdf, but the language in the tables is still English.

    https://www.sram.com/contentassets/e...sh_rev_a_0.pdf

    https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/...nish_rev_d.pdf
    That's what makes me a noob.
    The #1 is 15x100 so no go.

    Now I just have to figure out if I want 130 or 140 for my trails here. Lots of rocks/ roots and occasional steep drops combined with a lot of paved roads.

  51. #2451
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    Iíd go with the boost version personally (sounds like youíve just worked that out for yourself too). The ďA2Ē detail in your parts list suggest they are both a few years old (2016-2017 perhaps?) when they still came in boost and non-boost options. The boost fork will be a better long term investment, if you ever want to move it on to a new frame. If you donít have a boost front wheel, get a set of adapters for your existing wheel.

    Travel adjustment is a simple air shaft swap, and if Iím correct about the age of those forks, neither will have the Debonair air spring, which is a worthwhile upgrade. Perhaps ride with 130mm to start with and get a 140mm air spring if you feel you need to.

  52. #2452
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    Another thing, if they are old stock, look to see which damper they have. I have one with the charger damper on another bike and a 2018 with the charger 2 damper on my Chameleon. There is a huge difference in suppleness between them. The charger 2 just soaks up the small stuff better. Both dampers are awesome for big stiff and drops.

    Like stock.man says, the 130 and the 140 both come with the same uppers, so you can swap the air-spring if you need to change the travel. I ride a lot of chunky rocky technical stuff so I went for the 140 knowing that I could downsize if I wanted. The bigger fork also slackens our the geometry which also helps in the chunk and on downhill runs. I havent looked back. Love the way it rides with the 140. I ride it with 27.5+ wheels and 29ers depending on my mood.

  53. #2453
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    Thx a lot guys.
    After more reading, talking to amazing bunch of guys at the bike store I'm getting it from and taking into consideration that I live in South FL with highest elevation at around 20ft (according to strava) lol, I decided to go and get the Pike Select 130. I got a sweet deal for little over $600 delivered that includes an extra 140 Spring if I'll want more travel. The 2018 model sold out and I didn't want to get the 2016 hence the select.
    I'm a noob that needs to learn about suspension and the jump from the Recon RL to the select should keep me busy for a while without killing my wallet or frustrating me with way too many options.

    Again, thanks a ton for all the info.

  54. #2454
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    Bah
    Last edited by Spoonhead; 11-01-2019 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Meant to be a reply to a post! Noooob!

  55. #2455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poch Maui View Post
    Hi guys! I am running Chameleon Plus bike(WTB 27.5 x 3.0 trailboss front and 27.5x 2.8 Ranger rear).

    I am curious if anyone here tried 2.6 like Schwable or Maxxis tires(kinda wanna get the new Onza Porcupine tire in near future). Of course the BB will drop but how low because my raceface aeffect crank arm is 175mm(i don't know why they chose this length) unless i get 165mm then i can ride 2.6 on it? Is it possible? Sorry i could not find any source about 27.5 x 2.6 on the chameleon anywhere...so i decided to ask here. Yes i am thinking running 27.5 x 2.6 front and rear unless i go 2.8 front and 2.6 rear just to be safe?
    This is what I'm looking at doing now! Did you make the switch and how did you find it?

    I'm in the UK and the mud has made a lovely appearance! Hit the right patch of mud and I can pedal myself around in cycles with Nobby Nic 2.8's! The grip has become really unpredictable, which knocks my confidence where, at the moment, I have a lack of experience and skill! Returning from a bit of time off trail riding.

    I wondered if switching to a 2.6 on 35mm (internal width) wide rims to say a Maxxis Minion front and back would give more grip in these conditions. I think I saw that it would drop the BB aboout 5mm, which isn't a problem for the trails I ride. I'm running 170mm cranks.

    Has anyone tried this and think it is a good or bad move? And would swapping to a 2.6 Minion be beneficial enough to keep me upright and cutting into the mud more?

    Built up Chameleon to get myself back on the trails and I absolutely love it. Great forum.

  56. #2456
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    I'm on 27.5 x 2.6 Rekon's and I love it. Never really have any pedal strikes but I'm also not riding rooty or rocky terrain. I've also tried 27.5 x 2.8's on the same wheelset (Raceface ARC 40's) but I didn't like how they felt kind of floaty.

    I also have a 29er set of ARC 27's on 2.5 DHF's and 2.4 Rekon's and love that combo. Both sets are run with the 27.5 dropouts.

  57. #2457
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsanjuan31 View Post
    I'm on 27.5 x 2.6 Rekon's and I love it. Never really have any pedal strikes but I'm also not riding rooty or rocky terrain. I've also tried 27.5 x 2.8's on the same wheelset (Raceface ARC 40's) but I didn't like how they felt kind of floaty.

    I also have a 29er set of ARC 27's on 2.5 DHF's and 2.4 Rekon's and love that combo. Both sets are run with the 27.5 dropouts.
    Thanks for the quick response and the info.

    I think the Minions would be a good choice for muddy sloppy conditions, but I have no experience of them. Is my thinking right?

  58. #2458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spoonhead View Post
    Thanks for the quick response and the info.

    I think the Minions would be a good choice for muddy sloppy conditions, but I have no experience of them. Is my thinking right?
    Yes, they're excellent! I haven't tried any other tires as aggressive as the DHF but it hooks up under any conditions. I also use these on my Hightower.

  59. #2459
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsanjuan31 View Post
    Yes, they're excellent! I haven't tried any other tires as aggressive as the DHF but it hooks up under any conditions. I also use these on my Hightower.
    Perfect. Thanks again.

    Will go and hunt out the best deals!

  60. #2460
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    Check out Trek's in-house tire: Bontrager SE4/XR4 in Team Issue flavor, especially if you don't want to lug around a DH tire (Minions) but still want most of the traction in the pedaly stuff, especially when it's wet. A durable and stiffer SE4 out back and a softer more compliant XR4 up front is a great combo.
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  61. #2461
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    Thanks for the suggestion and great info. I'll take a look at these. I've just come across a review for 2.6 tyres and the XR4 was well rated.

  62. #2462
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    Oh man, what a difference!
    Finally had time to take it to the trails and try to find decent setup.
    Ended up running 82psi which is less than the *min of 85 manufacturers recommended and 9 clicks of rebound (from slow). Using about 95% of travel across the whole trail and couldn't be happier.

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-01.jpg

  63. #2463
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    I have a 2019 chameleon that came with a Rockshox recon 130. I bought a Fox performance 34 from a friend. The Rockshox uses torque caps but the Fox doesn't. Can I just easily change these out for standard caps?

    Josh

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  64. #2464
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    The torque caps are on the hubs, not the fork. If the wheels you're using have the torque cap end caps you should be able to swap them out
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  65. #2465
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    Hi guys, is there any difference in the R+ build when comparing the 2019s and 2020s? Have a chance to score 30% off a 2019 R+ and figured that's as good of a deal I'll be able to get on a new bike... Thx!

  66. #2466
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    Also, looks like the stock cassette on the R+ build is super heavy. If I wanted to upgrade to an X01 cassette would I have to change the whole wheelset to something that has a DUB? If yes, which wheelsets would you recommend (27.5 either aluminum or carbon)?

  67. #2467
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    What's spec'd on the R+ these days? NX or SX Eagle? Just ride it...they aren't bad at all.

    If you are determined to change new parts you would need a new driver for anything above NX Eagle. A driver may be available as an aftermarket add on for your hubs. No need to change bottom bracket or cranks.

    I would leave those bits on there and wear them out before I threw money at a problem that did not exist.
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  68. #2468
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    Double post delete
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  69. #2469
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    It's NX... yeah, a buddy recommended just wearing out the components first before upgraging too... thx.

  70. #2470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
    It's NX... yeah, a buddy recommended just wearing out the components first before upgraging too... thx.
    I've got about 700 miles on my 2019 Chameleon, low miles as I am riding 2 bikes.

    I have the middle build (can't recall which build it is). I purchased that build for the fork and dropper. Dropper works well but remote is cheap. Fork does the job (34 Rhythm).

    The NX drive train has been reliable have have made exactly one adjustment since I've owned it -wanted to throw the chain into the spokes until I have the limit screw 1/4 turn.
    Yeah the cassette is heavy but whatever. I'll consider options once it has worn out.
    If the 2020 is equipped with an NX drive train, so what. You can upgrade to the top notch bike for an even more ridiculous amount of money and still get a drive train that will eventually wear out.
    Nothing else needs replaced on the bike in my opinion. I mean it could be better spec'd for the asking price but that won't happen. As equipped it is perfectly fine.

    I think it's got a 50mm reach stem. Probably 740 bars, perhaps wider. 1x12 with 11/50 gearing. Race Face dropper post. Fox Rhythm fork. WTB saddle (comfortable for me).
    WTB wheels which I think are pretty heavy. Rekon tires f/r that provide good traction right out of the box.

    I guess that's about it....

  71. #2471
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    Well, I finally got the Chameleon I had been wanting and got her all built out proper only to be pretty disappointed with the 27+ ride. I bought a used bike, most of it built, and finished it off with dropper etc.

    My current ride is a HT2, so I was indeed looking for something "different" and playful. Something fun I would enjoy on our local flatter trails and pumpier stuff. I fought a few rides with the rekon 2.8's to find the right pressures (15psi-21psi) on the 40 arcs and just kept coming up with the same thing. Too high made me feel jittery and skittery, while too low made the bike feel like an absolute tank - slow. Anywhere in between was just a bummer. I tried. I really did.

    Final straw was a back to back 4 mile loop on a trail I know like the palm of my hand. I rode it on the Chameleon and then the HT2. When I jumped on the HT2 (2.4's), I literally started laughing before I even went into the woods at how much faster the bike was. Then the lap started...more comfortable, more playful...I literally was thinking why the hell did I even buy this chameleon. I left frustrated, ready to sell the bike. If its twice as much work, slower, not as fun...then there really isn't a point. I really wanted this thing to rip, enjoy the chainstays, pop off of stuff and jump like a DJ.

    Last try - went home and luckily had an old 29x30mm set of rims at the house. I decided to give this bike a try in 29 fashion. Mounted up a Dissector 2.4 up front and an aggressor 2.5 out back. Its been raining all weekend but the initial street ride was an entirely different bike guys. Faster, felt more knife like, no vagueness. I am stoked to give this a try before giving up.

    I know the bike Is called the Chameleon for a reason. To each his own on how they run this thing so I am definitely not hating, but just sharing my experience. Always wanted one, and this thing is bad a$$, but I hated to be disappointed with what I thought was going to be a super cool set up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-47f10800-6883-4dda-a076-c985292eaede.jpg  

    Santa Cruz HT2

  72. #2472
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    I have a 2019 Chameleon and immediately swapped the wheels for ARC35/I9 Torch and Rekon 2.6 (also GX Eagle cassette and shifter, Shimano brakes and Wolftooth dropper remote). Like night and day! I'm guessing your issue with vagueness was the same as mine: those big dual compound Rekons. For the life of me I couldn't find a pressure that wasn't either too bouncy or too soft. 2.6 which measures out smaller is the sweet spot!
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  73. #2473
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    I agree that 2.6ís are probably the sweet spot man but on these 40ís it would have been goofy. Next best option was the FREE 29 rims sitting here in the garage collecting dust. Weíll see. Never been a fan of bigger tires overall so I should have seen this coming. Iíll report back my findings after a few rides for sure.

  74. #2474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuch View Post
    I agree that 2.6ís are probably the sweet spot man but on these 40ís it would have been goofy. Next best option was the FREE 29 rims sitting here in the garage collecting dust. Weíll see. Never been a fan of bigger tires overall so I should have seen this coming. Iíll report back my findings after a few rides for sure.
    Fwiw, Iíve got 29x2.3s on my Chameleon and I wouldnít want to go much bigger, maybe 2.4 or 2.5 with wider rims.

  75. #2475
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    I should append my post with the note that my bike is a 27.5. The 27.5 x 2.6 is what I'm riding and they are a much better tire than the 27.5 x 2.8 Rekon+.
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  76. #2476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuch View Post
    I agree that 2.6ís are probably the sweet spot man but on these 40ís it would have been goofy. Next best option was the FREE 29 rims sitting here in the garage collecting dust. Weíll see. Never been a fan of bigger tires overall so I should have seen this coming. Iíll report back my findings after a few rides for sure.
    Had the same experience as you with 27.5+ albeit not on the Chameleon. When I built my Chameleon, I used Derby 29s from another build and mounted 2.6 Rekons and then switched to a 2.6 Ikon rear for summer. After switching back and forth, finally settled on 2.4/2.5 as I found the 2.6 quite vague once I got to the ideal pressure. YMMV.

  77. #2477
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    Reading the last few posts makes me feel better, or at least that there's hope. I got a 2017 27+ when they first came out and loved how it carved trails but it did feel very tank like. I tried a 2.8 Icon on the rear but that didn't help any and the Schwalbe Rocket Ron 2.8's I tried next were a lot faster but not near as good in the corners and still the bike felt sluggish. So the Chameleon collects dust in the garage and I ride my fat bikes (which feel faster) or one of my older 29'ers. So it sounds like it's time to salvage the hope hubs from the wheelset I had built up for the Chameleon and lace up some 29er rims and give that a try. Hopefully that will give me the trail bike I thought I getting!
    Mole

  78. #2478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuch View Post
    I agree that 2.6ís are probably the sweet spot man but on these 40ís it would have been goofy. Next best option was the FREE 29 rims sitting here in the garage collecting dust. Weíll see. Never been a fan of bigger tires overall so I should have seen this coming. Iíll report back my findings after a few rides for sure.
    This is why I decided on 30mm rims when I built my Chameleon up - DT Swiss EX511's on 350 hubs. Wide enough to run 2.8" tyres but if I didn't get on with the whole 27.5+ thing, those wheels were good for 'regular' 27.5 tyres too so I could use them on another bike if I wanted to.

    As it turns out, I find the 2.8" WTB Rangers feel pretty good on the bike and it remains nimble and fun to ride. That said, I sized down to a Large frame (I'm 6' 1.5") and run 800mm bars so it's like a big bmx bike! I could quite easily swap wheelsets with my OGHT which runs 29" wheels to see if I notice the difference, but I suspect the plus tyres provide that little bit of extra cushioning that makes the hardtail feel the way it does.

  79. #2479
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    Ok, reporting back. This bike with 29's (Dissector 2.4 F 19 PSI and Aggressor 2.5 R 21PSI) was a MUCH better ride for me personally. Fast like my HT2, quick and nimble, dependable and to be honest, SMOOTHER riding than the wonky 2.8 x 27.5.

    I ended up on one of my favorite trails and felt really great on the bike for the first time. In addition we did some small gap jumps and drops up to 4 feet (with appropriate landings) and she felt confident the entire time.

    Overall, this felt like how I envisioned the bike to feel for my intended purpose. She's a keeper for sure. Pumped that I found a set up I like and appreciate all the feedback on this thread to keep my brainstorming.
    Santa Cruz HT2

  80. #2480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuch View Post
    Ok, reporting back. This bike with 29's (Dissector 2.4 F 19 PSI and Aggressor 2.5 R 21PSI) was a MUCH better ride for me personally. Fast like my HT2, quick and nimble, dependable and to be honest, SMOOTHER riding than the wonky 2.8 x 27.5.

    I ended up on one of my favorite trails and felt really great on the bike for the first time. In addition we did some small gap jumps and drops up to 4 feet (with appropriate landings) and she felt confident the entire time.

    Overall, this felt like how I envisioned the bike to feel for my intended purpose. She's a keeper for sure. Pumped that I found a set up I like and appreciate all the feedback on this thread to keep my brainstorming.
    Yeah, the 2.8" takes some getting used to.
    It's my 2nd bike, first of which is a 29'er.

    I'm pretty fast on my 2.8 but no telling if I'd be faster on a 29er Chameleon. I noticed at first how much I labored to go slowly...even pedaling on the down-slopes with slight coasting wasn't as fast as my friend in front of me, and we are usually same speed.

    Glad you found the sweet spot for what you were after.

  81. #2481
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    Just picked up a 2019 R+ build in Slate blue... A couple test rides and I knew this would be the perfect bike for me. It rides like a big BMX bike... Now to figure out how to drop some weight from the bike... I think a lighter wheel set and cassette would make it ride even better. Any suggestions for a lighter wheel set with a better hub (mine has the SRAM MTH which is so-so)? The Santa Cruz Reserve 37's sure look nice but not sure I want to spend as much on the wheels as I spent on the bike! And yes, I don't need to upgrade, but it's fun and I like the feeling of light wheels...

  82. #2482
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    Hi there. I just plopped down a deposit on a Chameleon S+ Carbon! Super excited. At 48 I chose the 27.5+ setup but I am starting to think I should have gone 29.

    Also I went with a Large - at 5'9" the shop assured me that I could ride either one. But I ride a Med Transition Patrol now. Any thoughts on sizing? both frame and wheels? I think I can still change my order.

    I was afraid the 29er would be too harsh for my old man body but I also really wanted a fast bike.

  83. #2483
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Hi there. I just plopped down a deposit on a Chameleon S+ Carbon! Super excited. At 48 I chose the 27.5+ setup but I am starting to think I should have gone 29.

    Also I went with a Large - at 5'9" the shop assured me that I could ride either one. But I ride a Med Transition Patrol now. Any thoughts on sizing? both frame and wheels? I think I can still change my order.

    I was afraid the 29er would be too harsh for my old man body but I also really wanted a fast bike.
    I think it'd go with a medium at 5'9". I'm 6' on a large and I think i'd go down to medium if I was even an inch shorter.

  84. #2484
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    I'm 50, 5' 10" with a 30.5" inseam and I'm happily pedaling a large 27.5 with about 3/4" between the top of the seat tube and the dropper collar.
    Figuring this all out as I go!

  85. #2485
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    5' 10 1/2" on a L and find it to be perfect. Compare your M Patrol geometry spec's to the L Chameleon and you"ll get an idea of where your at.

    I ride mine in the 27.5+ flavor and and think its the only way to go on a HT. (I'm a little older than you) I run 2.8's on i38 rims and find it to be a nice balance for cush and performance. Been on it for 2 yrs now and love it.

  86. #2486
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    Just got an R+ with 27.5 and I love it... The volume of the tires makes it super comfy... I'm 5'8" (5'9" on a good day!) and went with a medium. Fits perfectly. I'd think you'd be better on a medium as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Hi there. I just plopped down a deposit on a Chameleon S+ Carbon! Super excited. At 48 I chose the 27.5+ setup but I am starting to think I should have gone 29.

    Also I went with a Large - at 5'9" the shop assured me that I could ride either one. But I ride a Med Transition Patrol now. Any thoughts on sizing? both frame and wheels? I think I can still change my order.

    I was afraid the 29er would be too harsh for my old man body but I also really wanted a fast bike.

  87. #2487
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Hi there. I just plopped down a deposit on a Chameleon S+ Carbon! Super excited. At 48 I chose the 27.5+ setup but I am starting to think I should have gone 29.

    Also I went with a Large - at 5'9" the shop assured me that I could ride either one. But I ride a Med Transition Patrol now. Any thoughts on sizing? both frame and wheels? I think I can still change my order.

    I was afraid the 29er would be too harsh for my old man body but I also really wanted a fast bike.
    Hey there,

    I am 6í1Ē and bought a 27.5+ large chameleon and feel like itís a bit small for me. However my large Transition Sentinel feels perfect. I think you will love the large size at your height. I did buy an extra set of 29 wheels and prefer the chameleon in that set up. The plus tires are my winter set now.

  88. #2488
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyFlow View Post
    Hi there. I just plopped down a deposit on a Chameleon S+ Carbon! Super excited. At 48 I chose the 27.5+ setup but I am starting to think I should have gone 29.

    Also I went with a Large - at 5'9" the shop assured me that I could ride either one. But I ride a Med Transition Patrol now. Any thoughts on sizing? both frame and wheels? I think I can still change my order.

    I was afraid the 29er would be too harsh for my old man body but I also really wanted a fast bike.
    I am 5'8" tall on a Medium 27.5+, 2019 Chameleon.

    I tested a large in the store parking area and it felt, well it felt large.

    The reach on the medium is quite longer than the medium Stumpjumper full suspension I also have. The reach on a large would be far too long for me to be comfy. I have my seat all the way forward. And the bars are rolled back a touch. The two bikes I have feel different from each other but each are fun. I think a large for me would not be too great.

    You need to sit on one of each and ride it. Ordering blindly is possibly going to be a negative purchasing experience.

    Confirm with your shop that if the large feels too big they can order you a medium. Of course you won't get to take the bike home with you then tell them later that it is too big.

  89. #2489
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    Not sure if this is against forum rules (LMK if so and I'll delete) but I'm selling my Large 2018 Chameleon 27.5+ in case anyone is interested.

    Very nice custom build. 140mm Fox 34, GX Eagle, Thomson dropper, DT/Hope wheels w/ new rubber. Less than 600 miles.

    Asking $2,500 but will consider all reasonable offers.

    Here's the ad on Pinkbike: https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2699435/

  90. #2490
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    Iím swapping my wheels on my 29er Hardtail and going with a 27.5 plus 2.8Ē Teravail tire on i40 rims.Then Iíll decide if the 27.5 Plus is a better way to go before I plop down the cash on a new Carbon Chameleon.
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  91. #2491
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    Does anyone have access to check availability of a frame?

  92. #2492
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    I am 6'2" and I love the large that I have. I think that different people like different things. The best way to tell if the size is right for you is to get on it and try it. Hopefully the guy that shop ordered a large for is willing to reorder if you don't like it when it comes in.

    Wheel wise I really liked the 27.5+ wheels on mine better than the 29ers. It was a little more sluggy but overall I could take it through a lot more jank and not beat my body up as much. I had 45mm internal carbon wheels with 2.8 tires Rekon's on it. I also am running cushcore in them. I think that really helps with the sidewalls not being as squirly. I had cushcore in my 29ers when I was running them too. Definitely helps to soften up the ride a little.

    I have the aluminium and am planning on selling it and getting the carbon. I can check back in once I do to talk about the differences.
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  93. #2493
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    So after reading almost every post here I'm going be buying an aluminum Chameleon.
    It will be a frame up build in the XL size and will be set up as a single speed.
    Here is what I'm thinking and would like some advice.

    The riding here in NE is all technical, rocky , roots and super fun. The bike will be set up as a 29er and I'm considering going with the 27.5 dropouts to gain more BB height.
    With that change I was going to run a 140mm fork to get the geometry back to factory spec + or -.
    Has anyone tried this set-up? I do have a spare 150 Fox 36 That is sitting on a shelf but I'm thinking that may be too much.

    And what about fork offset for this build?
    Gearing seems to be 34/20 as a good start from what I've read.

    I think that's all. Any advice would be great. Thanks !!

  94. #2494
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    I have a 27.5+ with a 140 pike that I also run 29ers on. The 29ers have a 2.4 ardent on the back and a 2.3 Minion DHF on the front. I definitely noticed the difference in handling between my 27.5x2.8 wheelset. Possibly caused by the slightly steeper head angle from raising the rear up a few mm. Because of the loose gravel and sand on the trails I ride, I definitely prefer the traction and extra cushion of my 27.5+ wheels, but there is no denying the 29ers feel faster and more nimble.

    Once I switched out to the 140 fork with the 27.5+ wheels I noticed it raised my BB enough to reduce pedal strikes. I live in a very rocky desert with boulders lining the trails. I honestly havenít noticed any difference in pedal strikes when I ride my 27.5+ vs. 29er wheels. Maybe if I had bigger 29er tired I would.

    Putting the 140mm fork on was the best upgrade I did on my Chameleon.

  95. #2495
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    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+

    Iíve got a 140 on my Chameleon too, though Iím not nuts about it. I think Iím going to drop the fork down to 120mm when itís rebuild time. Iím not particularly worried about pedal strikes, they only happen at full compression and at full compression the BB is the same height on the 120mm as it is with the 140mm.

    Hopefully itíll climb better and handle a little quicker with the shorter fork.


  96. #2496
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    Finished my build yesterday!

    XL Aluminum in bronze. The blue downtube decal was a little much for me so I covered it up with black. Full build is posted over on Vital.






  97. #2497
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    looks good! do you have a link to the build?
    Quote Originally Posted by lunchwagon View Post
    Finished my build yesterday!

    XL Aluminum in bronze. The blue downtube decal was a little much for me so I covered it up with black. Full build is posted over on Vital.






  98. #2498
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    Quote Originally Posted by rracraa View Post
    looks good! do you have a link to the build?
    https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/l...92/setup,40610

  99. #2499
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    Here we see the lizard.. At home in its natural habitat..

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_4159.jpg



    Threw the wagon wheels on today, had some rains lately and the trails are packed in nicely. It always surprises me how nimble and quick the bike feels with 29er wheels compared to the 27.5+ set, but also how much more harsh the ride is on the backside..

  100. #2500
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchwagon View Post
    Finished my build yesterday!

    XL Aluminum in bronze. The blue downtube decal was a little much for me so I covered it up with black. Full build is posted over on Vital.





    Love the color and black decals. Nice job!

  101. #2501
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    Has anyone heard any rumours about the 2020 Chameleons?

    New colours?
    Slacker head angle?
    Steeper seat angle?
    Seatpost insertion depth fixed on the ali version?
    Longer headtube on the XL?

  102. #2502
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    I believe the current offerings are the 2020 bikes, the colors of which were revealed back in (I think) July.

    I would be surprised if there are any geometric changes for the 2021 models, but we should get new colors.
    2013 Salsa Horsethief 2 (ironically, bike was stolen)
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  103. #2503
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    I got a 2019 Chameleon R+ new. I want a new hub and I got spoiled by having a hope hub in my dirt jumper. Would this hub work?

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Hope-Pro-4...Boost-Rear-Hub

    How hard is the tearing the wheel down and installing the new hub or should I have my shop do it?

  104. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruda911 View Post
    I got a 2019 Chameleon R+ new. I want a new hub and I got spoiled by having a hope hub in my dirt jumper. Would this hub work?

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Hope-Pro-4...Boost-Rear-Hub

    How hard is the tearing the wheel down and installing the new hub or should I have my shop do it?
    According to the SC website, the current R+ specs list a ďSRAM MTH 746, 12x148, 32hĒ rear hub, so 32 spokes, boost spacing. The Pro 4 flange diameters and spacing are likely to be different so spoke lengths would need to be recalculated. If the difference is too big, youíll need new spokes (and probably nipples) too.

    Rebuilding a wheel is relatively easy, tensioning and truing requires a bit more finesse and it helps to have the right gear like a truing stand and spoke tension meter. Iíd suggest if you donít have access to such gear then leave it to your bike shop. You might also consider buying a complete near rear wheel as it might not cost that much more, with the bonus that youíll have a backup wheel ready to go if you need it.

  105. #2505
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    I have an aluminum size large 2020 chameleon frame in matte black that I am looking to sell as I have replaced it with a tallboy 4. It has no scratches and less than 100 miles. 29er boost dropouts. Paid about 800 including tax when I got it, asking 600. Offers are welcome!

  106. #2506
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    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    According to the SC website, the current R+ specs list a ďSRAM MTH 746, 12x148, 32hĒ rear hub, so 32 spokes, boost spacing. The Pro 4 flange diameters and spacing are likely to be different so spoke lengths would need to be recalculated. If the difference is too big, youíll need new spokes (and probably nipples) too.

    Rebuilding a wheel is relatively easy, tensioning and truing requires a bit more finesse and it helps to have the right gear like a truing stand and spoke tension meter. Iíd suggest if you donít have access to such gear then leave it to your bike shop. You might also consider buying a complete near rear wheel as it might not cost that much more, with the bonus that youíll have a backup wheel ready to go if you need it.
    OK thanks for the quick reply. I emailed Colorado Cyclist on their recommendations so I will see what they have to say. I asked them about this one: https://www.coloradocyclist.com/hope...-40mm-rim-27-5

  107. #2507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruda911 View Post
    OK thanks for the quick reply. I emailed Colorado Cyclist on their recommendations so I will see what they have to say. I asked them about this one: https://www.coloradocyclist.com/hope...-40mm-rim-27-5
    Thatís the sort of thing youíre after. What was the hub from Jenson again - about $210. Maybe $100 in labour to rebuild if you could reuse the existing spokes, and perhaps another $50 on top if not. A complete wheel for ~$100 more is worth considering for sure.

    Iím interested to hear what CC recommend - if you do go with one of their wheels, make sure you order the right freehub (HG for Eagle NX, XD for Eagle GX or above). Iíd also suggest upgrading to DT Swiss Competition spokes and brass nipples if you want a really robust build.

  108. #2508
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    They said it would work so I think I will get it. $374 for a Race Face wheel with a Hope hub.

  109. #2509
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGhost View Post
    Has anyone heard any rumours about the 2020 Chameleons?

    New colours?
    Slacker head angle?
    Steeper seat angle?
    Seatpost insertion depth fixed on the ali version?
    Longer headtube on the XL?
    What issue is with the seat post insertion depth?

  110. #2510
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    deleted
    Last edited by Big Tiki; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:22 PM.

  111. #2511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyena74 View Post
    What issue is with the seat post insertion depth?
    The seatpost insertion depth was reduced considerably on the 2019 (blue and orange) frames.

    I had one of the 2018 green with purple decals frames. It cracked at the dropouts due to the known manufacturing fault. SC were brilliant and sent me a new frame but the seatpost insertion depth was way less.

    I was running a Fox Transfer dropper on my XL green frame and it could be inserted fully into the seat tube if needed. However in the replacement frame, I was only able to insert the post 210mm. I'm 6'2" and couldn't run a 150mm fox dropper on the XL frame. I checked all the measurements and Santa Cruz confirmed the depth had decreased.

    I loved my Chameleon but not with a 125mm only dropper. Yes I could run a OneUp post instead of a fox but I like the reliability of the Transfer post.

  112. #2512
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    Iím 6í2Ē and had a large teal frame. I was able to run my 170mm PNW no problem.

  113. #2513
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    Iím 6í2Ē and had a large teal frame. I was able to run my 170mm PNW no problem.
    Right, Iíve got a 150mm Fox Transfer on my L frame and Iím also 6í2Ē. My saddle height is 790mm from the BB.

    The difference is, an XL would require the post to be inserted farther into the frame than a L would. If you look at my bike here, you can see a lot of the black part of the post sticking out.


  114. #2514
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    Something isnít right. I looked up the maximum insertion length on the Fox Transfer and it said 248mm. Whereas the PNW 170mm Rainier and the 170mm Bachelor is 274mm. My dropper has about an inch at sticking up. Maybe a little more. But I still have room to push it down further.

    The Santa Cruz website shows the seatpost length of the large Chameleon is 450mm and the XL is 490mm. Maybe your cable is keeping you from pushing the dropper down and you need to shimmy it through the frame. I know if you try to push the cable with the little rubber grommets in sometimes it can be really hard. But if you push the dropper down and pull the cable at the same time it should go. If not, pop the rubber grommets out and then try. I'm willing to bet that's what your issue is.


    Here is a pic of my bike with the PNW on it:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-pnw170.png

  115. #2515
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    Picked up a medium black carbon yesterday. Its actually a clear coat over raw carbon so it looks pretty cool up close.
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_1271.jpg

    Much to my surprise my 29x3 WTB Ranger (on i39 rim) fit with the dropouts turned all the way out. Its tight but should work. I plan on getting smaller tires for this build but I'm stuck on what size. Will a 2.6 Ikon/Rekon suck on my i39 rims?
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_1267-2.jpg

    1720g on my scale with dropouts, no axle or seat clamp.
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_1269-2.jpg
    .....

  116. #2516
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    Iím eagerly waiting for mine to come in. I was wondering if the scales that are on the brown one were on the black one. Looks like itís just the words from you pic. Is that correct or is it there lightly?

  117. #2517
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    Scales are there in all the same places as the bronze, but in black so you barely notice them.
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_1266.jpg
    .....

  118. #2518
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    Thanks for clearing that up for me. Iíve been looking all over trying to find out. I even made a separate post asking for someone to post pics. Now if mine could only get here already!!!

  119. #2519
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    Looking for an XL frame


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  120. #2520
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    Hi all,

    I have a 2019 Chameleon R+ build and am looking to get some new wheels. Found a deal on a nice boost set but the freehub (DT Swiss 240s) is Shimano Micro Spline and the disc type is centerlock. Could I use these on my bike? What would I have to do to make it work? Thanks in advance!

  121. #2521
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
    Hi all,

    I have a 2019 Chameleon R+ build and am looking to get some new wheels. Found a deal on a nice boost set but the freehub (DT Swiss 240s) is Shimano Micro Spline and the disc type is centerlock. Could I use these on my bike? What would I have to do to make it work? Thanks in advance!
    Youíll need to swap the micro spline freehub for a Shimano 11 speed freehub on the 240s which will work with the NX Eagle cassette on the R+ (assuming current spec is the same as the 2019 R+). You can also get a centerlock to 6-bolt IS rotor mount for the hub to solve the rotor mounting issue.

    Freehub (including end cap) part number is HWYABX00S3745S
    Rotor adapter part number is HWZXXX00S1232S

    Might want to confirm those part numbers before ordering. Is the microspline hub fitted with 12mm end caps? If not, youíll need one for the non drive side too.

  122. #2522
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    Thank you so much! Very helpful... I'm actually going to switch to a GX or X01 cassette so I think I need the XD driver (sorry, should have mentioned that). And thinking maybe I should just stick with centerlock so maybe just get new center lock discs?

    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    Youíll need to swap the micro spline freehub for a Shimano 11 speed freehub on the 240s which will work with the NX Eagle cassette on the R+ (assuming current spec is the same as the 2019 R+). You can also get a centerlock to 6-bolt IS rotor mount for the hub to solve the rotor mounting issue.

    Freehub (including end cap) part number is HWYABX00S3745S
    Rotor adapter part number is HWZXXX00S1232S

    Might want to confirm those part numbers before ordering. Is the microspline hub fitted with 12mm end caps? If not, youíll need one for the non drive side too.

  123. #2523
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    If you think this would look good in your garage, please let me know. I'm gonna have to let it go.

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-img_2899.jpg
    Santa Cruz HT2

  124. #2524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
    Thank you so much! Very helpful... I'm actually going to switch to a GX or X01 cassette so I think I need the XD driver (sorry, should have mentioned that). And thinking maybe I should just stick with centerlock so maybe just get new center lock discs?
    In that case, the XD freehub kit is part number HWYAAX00S3188S
    You can get certainly get centerlock centerline brake rotors too.

  125. #2525
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    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    In that case, the XD freehub kit is part number HWYAAX00S3188S
    You can get certainly get centerlock centerline brake rotors too.
    Thanks again.... Here's one last thought: Would it make sense to just keep the wheelset as microspline and just upgrade the groupset from NX Eagle to SLX or XT 12-speed? Too many darn options...

  126. #2526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
    Thanks again.... Here's one last thought: Would it make sense to just keep the wheelset as microspline and just upgrade the groupset from NX Eagle to SLX or XT 12-speed? Too many darn options...
    Correct... too many darn options!

    From all accounts, Shimano 12 speed is going to be a big upgrade on NX Eagle. Eagle seems to work well for some, but is a perpetual pain for others.

    Your choice is really driven by what you want to achieve and how much youíre prepared to spend, with respect to wheels, groupset and brakes. List out the options and what the parts will cost for each and make an objective decision based on cost vs. benefit.

    If you stick with the wheelset with the microspline freehub, you need a new Shimano 12 speed cassette. I believe it would still work with the existing NX shifter and derailleur. Alternatively, you upgrade to Shimano shifter and derailleur at the same time, recovering some of your spend by selling the NX drivetrain. Just watch out for handlebar mount compatibility when selecting the Shimano shifter.

    You mentioned upgrading the NX cassette too, and going for an XD freehub so maybe GX? If youíre looking to upgrade, then Iíd imagine that XT will be a superior option over GX or even X01.

  127. #2527
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    Thanks again for the thoughtful response... I will definitely weigh the options... By the way, this is the wheelset I went with. Seemed to be a screaming deal. I think they still have a few left...

    https://www.theproscloset.com/produc...-27-5-wheelset

  128. #2528
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    Wow, that is a good deal. I guess people think that 27.5+ is dead, but I think it works well on hardtails - running 2.8Ē on my Chameleon and takes a lot of the harshness away without feeling like a fat bike.

  129. #2529
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    Anyone selling an XL ?

    Preferably Carbon


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  130. #2530
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    Is there a big riding difference in the carbon v Aluminum?


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  131. #2531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacoland View Post
    Picked up a medium black carbon yesterday. Its actually a clear coat over raw carbon so it looks pretty cool up close.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Much to my surprise my 29x3 WTB Ranger (on i39 rim) fit with the dropouts turned all the way out. Its tight but should work. I plan on getting smaller tires for this build but I'm stuck on what size. Will a 2.6 Ikon/Rekon suck on my i39 rims?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    1720g on my scale with dropouts, no axle or seat clamp.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Would a 29 x 2.8 work?


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  132. #2532
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    Would a 29 x 2.8 work?
    29 x 2.8 might work depending on tire. 29 x 3.0 WTB Ranger barely fits w/ dropouts fully extended:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-cham_clearance_left.jpg

    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-chame_clearance_right.jpg

    All built up and ready to go!
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-cham_1.jpg

    Was able to use a 142 SS non-driveside dropout to fit my 142 centerlock Onyx hub. Only need to run a 3mm axle spacer on the driveside with this setup. Pretty stoked about this though I did have to purchase the full SS kit just to get the non-driveside dropout.
    Santa Cruz Chameleon 27+-cham_ssdropout.jpg
    .....

  133. #2533
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    OK, I just had the bike shop order a full XT groupset, including brakes... I figured it'll just be plug-and-play with that micro spline wheelset and it'll be a big upgrade from the NX Eagle on there now. Went a little crazy and ordered some carbon bars too... I'll post a pic when it's all done... thanks again for the advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    Correct... too many darn options!

    From all accounts, Shimano 12 speed is going to be a big upgrade on NX Eagle. Eagle seems to work well for some, but is a perpetual pain for others.

    Your choice is really driven by what you want to achieve and how much youíre prepared to spend, with respect to wheels, groupset and brakes. List out the options and what the parts will cost for each and make an objective decision based on cost vs. benefit.

    If you stick with the wheelset with the microspline freehub, you need a new Shimano 12 speed cassette. I believe it would still work with the existing NX shifter and derailleur. Alternatively, you upgrade to Shimano shifter and derailleur at the same time, recovering some of your spend by selling the NX drivetrain. Just watch out for handlebar mount compatibility when selecting the Shimano shifter.

    You mentioned upgrading the NX cassette too, and going for an XD freehub so maybe GX? If youíre looking to upgrade, then Iíd imagine that XT will be a superior option over GX or even X01.

  134. #2534
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    Is the Carbon worth the substantial jump in cash ?


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  135. #2535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tacoland View Post
    29 x 2.8 might work depending on tire. 29 x 3.0 WTB Ranger barely fits w/ dropouts fully extended:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    All built up and ready to go!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Was able to use a 142 SS non-driveside dropout to fit my 142 centerlock Onyx hub. Only need to run a 3mm axle spacer on the driveside with this setup. Pretty stoked about this though I did have to purchase the full SS kit just to get the non-driveside dropout.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Is that the carbon?


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