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    Hightower V2

    Biggest surprise: Aluminum frame right off the bat. SC kept that secret very well, didn't they?
    Last edited by Rev Bubba; 07-02-2019 at 02:55 AM. Reason: typo

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    it comes in my color, blue lol. I'm not sure about the component package as a noob I don't know how the yari forks compare or the new sx sram. I would like to get the highest build I can afford but man it's a bit pricey. wonder if I should just get a leftover 2019? but the 2020 does look sweet

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob214 View Post
    it comes in my color, blue lol. I'm not sure about the component package as a noob I don't know how the yari forks compare or the new sx sram. I would like to get the highest build I can afford but man it's a bit pricey. wonder if I should just get a leftover 2019? but the 2020 does look sweet
    I wouldn't be scared of the Yari at all. I have one on my Chameleon, and I honestly can't tell it from my Pike, and it's better than the 34 Rhythm that came on the Chameleon. No experience with the SX SRAM, but I did have NX 11 speed for a while and it was serviceable.

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    Indeed, Aluminum version is a surprise...
    "There's two kinds of people in this world - Walkers and Talkers." Which one are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob214 View Post
    it comes in my color, blue lol. I'm not sure about the component package as a noob I don't know how the yari forks compare or the new sx sram. I would like to get the highest build I can afford but man it's a bit pricey. wonder if I should just get a leftover 2019? but the 2020 does look sweet
    would get the new geo any day over minor fork upgrade. Anyways the new gen debonair yari beats the old harsh yari by miles. Great fork for the price

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    What is this maverick name I am seeing on their store page?
    https://gyazo.com/0d550d4d3f05c9fff7bbe4dbe04a0742

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    34 lb?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob214 View Post
    it comes in my color, blue lol. I'm not sure about the component package as a noob I don't know how the yari forks compare or the new sx sram. I would like to get the highest build I can afford but man it's a bit pricey. wonder if I should just get a leftover 2019? but the 2020 does look sweet
    Yeah, there are some fantastic deals on 2019s right now.

    Stoked on the aluminum option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by senorbanana View Post
    What is this maverick name I am seeing on their store page?
    https://gyazo.com/0d550d4d3f05c9fff7bbe4dbe04a0742
    That's the women's 29 model

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    Ah, thanks

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    The Hightower V2 carbon bikes seem to stack up very close to the Megatower in weight. It seems the penalty for aluminum is about 2 lbs. on other SC bikes and the reward is $1000 left in your in pocket.

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    I'm kind of glad I jumped on the 2019.
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    so as I'm still looking at bikes in my price range and I really like the Hightower, anyone want to give their opinion on the 2 lower base priced aluminum builds? seems the only difference in the alum R is the forks over the D build. I currently ride a 2016 giant stance 1, base model so I kind of feel like these choices wouldn't break the bank but would should be a big step forward for me.
    thanks for your thoughts
    rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob214 View Post
    so as I'm still looking at bikes in my price range and I really like the Hightower, anyone want to give their opinion on the 2 lower base priced aluminum builds? seems the only difference in the alum R is the forks over the D build. I currently ride a 2016 giant stance 1, base model so I kind of feel like these choices wouldn't break the bank but would should be a big step forward for me.
    thanks for your thoughts
    rob
    The fork on the R build is likely quite a bit better than the D build as the Yari is basically a lyrik with a less costly damper (which can be upgraded to the lyrik damper at a later date). The drive train and brakes are also a model level lower, but in the long run I would likely upgrade both to some level above either the R or D build anyway. I don't think the R build is worth a $600 premium over the D build unless you don't plan on upgrading the R build above its current spec down the road. That being said the R build is a ready to ride build.

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    Lots of positive reviews already on the new Hightower and little in the way of complaints on the increase in weight. That seems to be a thing with current designs. There is little left to do for me other then get hold of a demo and ride the bike where I usually ride a bike and decide for myself if this is or isn't the bike for me.

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    Yeh---go demo---these initial reviews are not of much use as they have a marketing bent for sure. The angles on this bike are a bit too extreme for me---just do not get along with a STA that steep as they put too much pressure on my arthritic hands-----was in Santa Cruz yesterday riding at Wilder but did not bother to go see the bike at the factory even as I drove right past it-------perhaps the upcoming TB will be more my style

    Note there are plenty of unbooked factory demo's as of this morning over the next few weeks but that may not stay the case for long

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    Barabing baraboom
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Thatís not correct. S build is GX.
    My bad. There is a delay when you're swiping through builds and I guess it moved when I was trying to read it. Thanks for the heads up.
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    Anyone manage to order a frame-only? My buddy working at a shop showed them available yesterday, now today nothing. Sold out already?

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Anyone manage to order a frame-only? My buddy working at a shop showed them available yesterday, now today nothing. Sold out already?
    Competitive said frames in September.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hamilton View Post
    Competitive said frames in September.


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    I talked to them last week and they told me 07/15... now september? WTF!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    I talked to them last week and they told me 07/15... now september? WTF!!!
    Yup, what they told me today, anyway. Most full builds available now.


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    demoing one this weekend in downieville. skeptical that it will be better than my hightower lt

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamilton View Post
    Competitive said frames in September.


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    Wonder if them showing as available on Santa Cruz's order site (shop account, not public) yesterday was a 1 day snafu?

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    I was thinking the same thing about the upcoming TB over the new Hightower. I was told front and back suspension will increase 10 mm each and if SC is consistent with angles, a new TB may be pretty close to the previous HT. I rode the previous HT at Wilder last year and it seemed spot on for that type riding.

    However, I'll likely be able to demo a HT in two weeks so I won't write it off quite yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Wonder if them showing as available on Santa Cruz's order site (shop account, not public) yesterday was a 1 day snafu?
    I was wondering if there was a small allocation of frames early on that went immediately, so a frame in September would be from the next shipment. Whatever the case, itís looking like the usual SC case of a month or two delay for a frame-only option.


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    talked to CC again. they said they are still waiting on SC to confirm their order, it hasn't been confirmed yet, as soon as it's confirmed frames will be available for backorder. they told me mid august.

    so, seems like they say whatever they want! depends on who you talk, they might have no clue and just come up with a date that might not make the customer too upset!

    both my local Santa Cruz dealers told me the frame only is not available for them yet to order, so they can't even get me an ETA

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    I put in an order yesterday for a frame-only after riding a S build at LBS. Exactly what i wanted in a new Large frame.

    Shop guy said they were available "July 2-5". So I put my money down. So I called today to see if the status changed and they said they wont be available to mid-late august now. Bummer.

    I cancelled my order, and will just ride my OGHT (which honestly is perfect) until the winter and then do a complete swap-over.

    I really really wanted a new HT in the coming week(s). I will sill get one, but the urgency has worn off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    I put in an order yesterday for a frame-only after riding a S build at LBS. Exactly what i wanted in a new Large frame.

    Shop guy said they were available "July 2-5". So I put my money down. So I called today to see if the status changed and they said they wont be available to mid-late august now. Bummer.

    I cancelled my order, and will just ride my OGHT (which honestly is perfect) until the winter and then do a complete swap-over.

    I really really wanted a new HT in the coming week(s). I will sill get one, but the urgency has worn off.
    care to share some of your thoughts on the ride?

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    So how mutch heavier is it? Weight is a major concern I find.


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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo666 View Post
    So how mutch heavier is it? Weight is a major concern I find.


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    The 2019 CS build is 28.40 lbs... the 2020 is 3.13 lb heavier at 31.53 lb.. the aluminum S build is over 5 lb heavier. I am in no way a weight weenie but these weights are ridiculous.
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    It's obviously not all in the frames, some of this will be component differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbs View Post
    It's obviously not all in the frames, some of this will be component differences.
    Definitely when we talk about the aluminum model. But the CS build is definitely 3 extra lb of frame it seems since they are almost identically spec'd as the 2019 except for suspension.
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    I have to withhold judgment until I ride the new HT.

    3 lbs is only 1.5% of my body weight and I could lose three pounds by reducing what I carry in my Camelback.

    Until I know how the bike rides, I'm not going to write it off because of weight. If the new suspension is as good as has been reported and the wheels track better when climbing, maybe I won't even feel the weight. I am buying the full package, not a 3 lbs. barbell.

    The Giant Trance I rode for years weighed 34 lbs.* My current 5010 V1 weights 29.5 lbs and I have a steel HT that runs about 25 lbs. yet I never really feel the difference when I'm riding.

    The fact is, I will be last up on any climb these days and a couple pounds won't change that.

    * All weights quoted are without pedals and were measured on a digital scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    care to share some of your thoughts on the ride?
    was exactly what i want in a Large. Slightly roomier, higher stack. Felt very comfortable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    I have to withhold judgment until I ride the new HT.

    3 lbs is only 1.5% of my body weight and I could lose three pounds by reducing what I carry in my Camelback.

    Until I know how the bike rides, I'm not going to write it off because of weight. If the new suspension is as good as has been reported and the wheels track better when climbing, maybe I won't even feel the weight. I am buying the full package, not a 3 lbs. barbell.

    The Giant Trance I rode for years weighed 34 lbs.* My current 5010 V1 weights 29.5 lbs and I have a steel HT that runs about 25 lbs. yet I never really feel the difference when I'm riding.

    The fact is, I will be last up on any climb these days and a couple pounds won't change that.

    * All weights quoted are without pedals and were measured on a digital scale.
    I like this thought,
    if I ride more and watch what I eat I could loose 10 lbs and that would make a real difference. I had the chance to ride a 2019 HT carbon last night and I was riding it back to back with my 2016 stance, I really liked the HT but the weight difference didn't even come into my thought. the initial things I noticed where the 29" wheels, the shifting and the uphill pedaling was better than my bike. I did the same trail and the same line at almost the same speed so why do I need a new bike? want vs necessity I guess plus I want my wife to ride so she will inherit my giant. as long as it fits my budget I think any bike I choose will be fine, there are other factors that come into play for me on bike choice. a big one is my local dealer for support. and the Santa Cruz and giant bikes are what I'm looking at for that reason.
    as people ride more and more extreme terrain the bikes will be built bigger and beefier to accommodate. I don't really even jump my bike so I'm pretty sure I could go with a tallboy or even a blur if I wanted to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    The 2019 CS build is 28.40 lbs...
    Where are you getting this information?

    I have a 2017 HT CS and it's 31 lbs. What's more, mine is pre-Eagle. You're telling me that a 2019 HT1 somehow miraculously dropped close to 3 lbs while adding a GX Eagle cassette? I think not.

    I also happen to own a 2018 N4 that's close to 28.5 lbs. In order to get there, I got the CC X01 spec with Reserve.

    If the SC website in fact posted 28.4 on their website for the HT1 CS, then it was a mistake. The only way to settle this is with a scale at an LBS who still has HT1s in stock. In the meantime, PLEASE do everyone a favor and stop spreading what likely is misinformation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    Definitely when we talk about the aluminum model. But the CS build is definitely 3 extra lb of frame it seems since they are almost identically spec'd as the 2019 except for suspension.
    Thatís just Bulls..t.

    No offence intended, but you weight weenies on this and the Future Hightower thread need to calm down a bit and at least go out and demo one before pronouncing your armchair judgements.

    The new linkage definitely adds weight as does the larger frame sizing but not 3 pounds. And as anyone coming from a N3 to N4 or B2 to B3 will tell you the performance upgrades due to the new linkage design , the more robust construction that allows you to push even harder , and the modern geometry are more than worth it.

    Peace 

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    I talked to them last week and they told me 07/15... now september? WTF!!!
    Welcome to the world of SC.

    Notice that the SC forum consistently has 5-10X as many viewers as all the other forums. These bikes are popular.

    When I got my N4, they told me 2 weeks and it ended up taking 6. So that September time frame might get blown. The HT2 will probably be SC's hottest bike for many years.

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    Well the good news is you can get the frame only and have about 6 months of ride time before they change the colors


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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    I put in an order yesterday for a frame-only after riding a S build at LBS. Exactly what i wanted in a new Large frame.

    Shop guy said they were available "July 2-5". So I put my money down. So I called today to see if the status changed and they said they wont be available to mid-late august now. Bummer.

    I cancelled my order, and will just ride my OGHT (which honestly is perfect) until the winter and then do a complete swap-over.

    I really really wanted a new HT in the coming week(s). I will sill get one, but the urgency has worn off.
    Pretty classic Santa Cruz process at this point... never enough inventory especially frame-only when new models launch... Never fails... Maybe they should consider the pre-order model to gauge interest...

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    FWIW... i put a quick 20k on my HT2 i picked up yesterday(large C S build). I did gnarly east coast flow trails and some tight singletrack switchback. Last bike i spent time on was the 2019 HT and Megatower (demo). I read everything on these forums post release so had a lot of different expectations built up. Iíd say this:
    Weight didnít feature in my ride. I felt the bike really want to go fast and was fast even despite the DHR 2.
    I thought my climbs were controlled and quick
    My skill set on the tight single track wasnít great and the bike didnít help me much...and nor should it have. I was eagerly waiting for more open trail to shred.
    Wheels stuck to the ground, felt a lot of traction
    All that said, i felt it more nimble than i expected, but of course i came from a megatower...Ht2 is not the megatower mini ( or maybe it is i donít know yet)
    Iíve demoed similar Pivots, Evils, Devinicís as well over the last while and knew what to expect of the new GEO and it felt very familiar. That said iím still mastering it. Now that i have one, iím excited
    It was sluggish in the flats, still fast, but this bike likes to move, so do i, and so im happy.
    The highland blue looks way better in real life than stock photos. Seeing the desert colour for me reinforced my sight unseen purchase decision.

    Now i can just ride, and iím thrilled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheDood View Post
    Where are you getting this information?

    I have a 2017 HT CS and it's 31 lbs. What's more, mine is pre-Eagle. You're telling me that a 2019 HT1 somehow miraculously dropped close to 3 lbs while adding a GX Eagle cassette? I think not.

    I also happen to own a 2018 N4 that's close to 28.5 lbs. In order to get there, I got the CC X01 spec with Reserve.

    If the SC website in fact posted 28.4 on their website for the HT1 CS, then it was a mistake. The only way to settle this is with a scale at an LBS who still has HT1s in stock. In the meantime, PLEASE do everyone a favor and stop spreading what likely is misinformation.
    I had this same discussion on the other hightower thread, the SC website definitely shows 28.4 pounds for the 2019 hightower s build with very light weights listed for more expensive builds and others in the other thread pointed out that their personal hightowers weighed more than that and that there probably isn't much of a difference in weight between the two models as we think. If this is misinformation, it is coming straight from Santa Cruz and is not some made-up number. I don't know what the truth is but I plan on demoing the new bike before bashing the weight again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheDood View Post
    Where are you getting this information?

    I have a 2017 HT CS and it's 31 lbs. What's more, mine is pre-Eagle. You're telling me that a 2019 HT1 somehow miraculously dropped close to 3 lbs while adding a GX Eagle cassette? I think not.

    I also happen to own a 2018 N4 that's close to 28.5 lbs. In order to get there, I got the CC X01 spec with Reserve.

    If the SC website in fact posted 28.4 on their website for the HT1 CS, then it was a mistake. The only way to settle this is with a scale at an LBS who still has HT1s in stock. In the meantime, PLEASE do everyone a favor and stop spreading what likely is misinformation.
    I got this from the Santa Cruz website. Wether that's misinformation or not it's what the website says. So I'm not spreading misinformation. Take it up with Santa Cruz and get your panties out of that bunch. So if SC is lying I'd hate to know the weight of the 35lb aluminium bike 藍 oh and take the other guys advice under your post and calm down. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCJG View Post
    G
    Thatís just Bulls..t.

    No offence intended, but you weight weenies on this and the Future Hightower thread need to calm down a bit and at least go out and demo one before pronouncing your armchair judgements.

    The new linkage definitely adds weight as does the larger frame sizing but not 3 pounds. And as anyone coming from a N3 to N4 or B2 to B3 will tell you the performance upgrades due to the new linkage design , the more robust construction that allows you to push even harder , and the modern geometry are more than worth it.

    Peace 
    No offense taken. And I am calm. You guys ate the ones getting your panties in a bunch because of the claims Santa Cruz has on their website. I'm not just maki g these numbers out of thin air. So CALM DOWN 
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    Ok so I just weighed my 2019 Large frame CS build 29 with my Time Atac pedals and it weighs exactly 30.8 lb on my Park Tool scale.
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    I'm guessing a lb or so for the pedals.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hightower V2-20190704_143559.jpg  

    Hightower V2-20190704_143540.jpg  

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    Yep this weight thing has been done to death now. Appears there is an increase on paper with the HT2, donít see many posts from people that have demoed them that comment about it. Iím guessing the lower COG with the new shock location helps make it disappear too.

    Enjoying the conversation otherwise, good cross section of contributors.

    Question (and forgive my ignorance): is this the first time SC has put a custom tuned shock on a bike? Wondering if this is indicative that the lower link VPP needs some shock magic in shorter travel configurations? Could be telling for the new TB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post


    Question (and forgive my ignorance): is this the first time SC has put a custom tuned shock on a bike? Wondering if this is indicative that the lower link VPP needs some shock magic in shorter travel configurations? Could be telling for the new TB.
    The custom tune is very common. It's on pretty much every FS bike they sell afaik.

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    talked to my LBS said the aluminum frame builds won't be available until October.

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    I rode back to back the V1 and V2 HT's and than went out on a '19 Ripmo. Now I have lost all interest in the HT. Oops, shouldn't have done that! Haha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by beastmaster View Post
    I rode back to back the V1 and V2 HT's and than went out on a '19 Ripmo. Now I have lost all interest in the HT. Oops, shouldn't have done that! Haha!
    I had a ride on the ripmo and itís not a bike for me, i like the OGHT alot better. The ripmo dosenít feel as sturdy to me.


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  56. #56
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    Dan and Beast - would love to hear your thoughts comparing the new HT to the Ripmo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zosima View Post
    Dan and Beast - would love to hear your thoughts comparing the new HT to the Ripmo.
    Quote Originally Posted by beastmaster View Post
    Haha! Love it.

    Wednesday and Thursday I rode both the old version and new versions of the SC Hightower. They were nice bikes, but climbing on them was challenging (V2 was better but not significantly). I had to sit way forward to get them to climb properly. Tight switchbacks were a total pain in the ass too (up or down). But pointed down in the super chunk of our northern New Mexican mountains, they ripped (either bike). I also rode a Yeti SB130 a few weeks ago and had a similar experience to what I felt on the HT. SB130 was better going down that said.

    My LBS is also an Ibis dealer and they happened to have a proper sized Ripmo demo for me and so I took it out for a quick spin on our town trails-the Dale Ball Trails. I went over to the south section (sort of like your South Mountain stuff) which I rode both V1 and V2 HT's on so I had a direct comparison. It was so different that making a comparison would be inaccurate at best. The HT's go straight downhill and reward big speed but sacrifice line changes or maneuverability with and over the bike. The Ripmo was 98% as fast down but with way more feeling of where and what the tires were doing, and therefore, considerably more confident inspiring (for me). The geo differences between the SCHT and the Ripmo speak to different design philosophies. Coming from an XC background, I immediately felt right at home on the Ripmo while the SCHT was like driving a dump truck through a slalom course: good if you don't care about making turns, but otherwise not so much.

    The Ripmo I demoed had the Fox Factory upgrades, GX drivetrain, Ibis carbon wheels with their hubs, the 185 Bike Yoke dropper, an Ibis carbon bar, and Maxxis 2.5 Minion tires without tubes. It weighed in at 29lbs in an XL. When I brought back the Ibis I immediately ordered it! The Ripmo is quite possibly the best bicycle I have ever ridden.

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    I'm putting this review here, as the "Future Hightower" Thread seems irrelevant, since people have these now.

    I picked up an C R build from my LBS. I wanted a S build but they are all sold out and not available until late summer.. (I also tried to order a frame-only to no avail). I wanted to buy local to support brick and mortar stores, as that is important to me.

    First, I LOVE my OGHT. There was basically no original piece on it anymore, it was just a little small for my almost 6'1" body. It did everything for me to 50mile endurace races, 1 hour singletrack rips from mellow to wild. I really liked it. Just a tad to small. If I was 5'10" it would've been perfect.

    I have to say without a shadow of the doubt, the new HT is amazing. I bike several times a week and consider myself pretty fit and capable with confidence. I swapped what I wanted from my OGHT to new one and dropped 2.5 lbs. Some upgrades are: i9 hubs laced to Stans Arch 30s / Carbon Next SL 170 cranks / 1x11 gx drivetrain (Eagle is so heavy and so unnessary IMHO) / 2.6 / 2.4 Honchos. I have a better cockpit / brakes / dropper on my OG, but I need to keep them on there for selling (selling super cheap, FYI size L 2018 gray).

    My plans are swapping out the MC dampener to a Charger pretty soon (pretty cheap upgrade) and get some XT 4 piston brakes. Everything else just works.

    One thing to note about this bike is the reach and wheelbase is definitely longer (size L is almost 2 inches longer), however the ETT is a tad shorter, which means the seated climbing position feels close due to the steeper STA. It feels good, and works really, really well and effective. It also works slightly different leg muscles, but its real natural. On the flat and down tech its easier to navigate through tight sections due the a better size for me. I really, really like this bike. The blue is crazy weird in the sun. There is a slight magenta or purple hue when the light hits it right. Its really beautiful actually.

    Hightower V2-5d7ce96d-9b23-47f4-8970-4144b5198c71.jpg
    Hightower V2-a55019ee-3231-4957-ac43-ac0dd08de1e4.jpg
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    It looks very nice! How does the weight compare to your OGHT? How does it climb/pedal/descend compared to the OGHT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddzilla View Post
    It looks very nice! How does the weight compare to your OGHT? How does it climb/pedal/descend compared to the OGHT?
    According to SC site, I am now a hair under 30lbs (with the upgrades / parts swap) I did. My old build is now heavier... It feels respectable for so much bike in a Large.

    Climb: They both climbed great. OG is not a bad bike, at all. The V2 has a more comfortable seated position, which will come in handy on longer rides (3 - 8 hours). Both track and hug technical climbs great.

    Pedal: About the same. as far as pedal bob (almost non-existent). It works slightly different muscle group (i think, or I could feel it) because you are above your pedals more, instead of slightly behind. I think I like it better. But I never had problems pedaling with OG either.

    Descend: Way better for me. Its 2 inches longer then my old one. Way more planted. The 2 degree slacker HTA was noticeable on steep rock rolls. All those rolls were still doable on a 67 degree HTA as well...

    I probably wouldn't have gotten a V2 if I was riding an XL OGHT. But I needed (wanted) a bigger bike, so I just opted for the V2.

    Its awesome. But so is OGHT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    According to SC site, I am now a hair under 30lbs (with the upgrades / parts swap) I did. My old build is now heavier... It feels respectable for so much bike in a Large.

    Climb: They both climbed great. OG is not a bad bike, at all. The V2 has a more comfortable seated position, which will come in handy on longer rides (3 - 8 hours). Both track and hug technical climbs great.

    Pedal: About the same. as far as pedal bob (almost non-existent). It works slightly different muscle group (i think, or I could feel it) because you are above your pedals more, instead of slightly behind. I think I like it better. But I never had problems pedaling with OG either.

    Descend: Way better for me. Its 2 inches longer then my old one. Way more planted. The 2 degree slacker HTA was noticeable on steep rock rolls. All those rolls were still doable on a 67 degree HTA as well...

    I probably wouldn't have gotten a V2 if I was riding an XL OGHT. But I needed (wanted) a bigger bike, so I just opted for the V2.

    Its awesome. But so is OGHT.
    Nice review, thanks. I am in almost the identical position as you except my oght is orange. How does the large (assume you bought the large) HT v2 get around tight switchbacks(both up and down)? That is probably my only concern with the new geo is that it may be more difficult to handle in tight situations.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    I'm putting this review here, as the "Future Hightower" Thread seems irrelevant, since people have these now.

    I picked up an C R build from my LBS. I wanted a S build but they are all sold out and not available until late summer.. (I also tried to order a frame-only to no avail). I wanted to buy local to support brick and mortar stores, as that is important to me.

    First, I LOVE my OGHT. There was basically no original piece on it anymore, it was just a little small for my almost 6'1" body. It did everything for me to 50mile endurace races, 1 hour singletrack rips from mellow to wild. I really liked it. Just a tad to small. If I was 5'10" it would've been perfect.

    I have to say without a shadow of the doubt, the new HT is amazing. I bike several times a week and consider myself pretty fit and capable with confidence. I swapped what I wanted from my OGHT to new one and dropped 2.5 lbs. Some upgrades are: i9 hubs laced to Stans Arch 30s / Carbon Next SL 170 cranks / 1x11 gx drivetrain (Eagle is so heavy and so unnessary IMHO) / 2.6 / 2.4 Honchos. I have a better cockpit / brakes / dropper on my OG, but I need to keep them on there for selling (selling super cheap, FYI size L 2018 gray).

    My plans are swapping out the MC dampener to a Charger pretty soon (pretty cheap upgrade) and get some XT 4 piston brakes. Everything else just works.

    One thing to note about this bike is the reach and wheelbase is definitely longer (size L is almost 2 inches longer), however the ETT is a tad shorter, which means the seated climbing position feels close due to the steeper STA. It feels good, and works really, really well and effective. It also works slightly different leg muscles, but its real natural. On the flat and down tech its easier to navigate through tight sections due the a better size for me. I really, really like this bike. The blue is crazy weird in the sun. There is a slight magenta or purple hue when the light hits it right. Its really beautiful actually.


    Nice bike! I found that the color really seems to vary in person based on lighting, in a darker showroom the color is fairly dark, with moderate lighting conditions it is more like royal blue/ blue angels color, and with the sun shining right on it it looks fairly light in color. This blue really is like a whole different color depending on the lighting, IMO, its like a chameleon paint color.

    How does this bike roll compared to your old one, and do you think it pedals slow with those tires? I am looking for the perfect 1 bike and the one I rode with dhr2 front and rear was a little slow (see the other future hightower thread) but I think its just the tires.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Nice bike! I found that the color really seems to vary in person based on lighting, in a darker showroom the color is fairly dark, with moderate lighting conditions it is more like royal blue/ blue angels color, and with the sun shining right on it it looks fairly light in color. This blue really is like a whole different color depending on the lighting, IMO, its like a chameleon paint color.

    How does this bike roll compared to your old one, and do you think it pedals slow with those tires? I am looking for the perfect 1 bike and the one I rode with dhr2 front and rear was a little slow (see the other future hightower thread) but I think its just the tires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    Nice review, thanks. I am in almost the identical position as you except my oght is orange. How does the large (assume you bought the large) HT v2 get around tight switchbacks(both up and down)? That is probably my only concern with the new geo is that it may be more difficult to handle in tight situations.
    iíve rode a good amount of tight switch trails since getting mine over a week ago and it handles quite well. You need to be aggressive with it as itís not super poppy, but after a few runs you get to know the bike and how to handle it. It gets more fun with each ride in my view. Iím also loving every minute of it. Very versatile, iím ploughing through crud and racing up tight switch backs. If anything, my abilities are limiting me, not the bike.


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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    Nice review, thanks. I am in almost the identical position as you except my oght is orange. How does the large (assume you bought the large) HT v2 get around tight switchbacks(both up and down)? That is probably my only concern with the new geo is that it may be more difficult to handle in tight situations.
    Yes, I bought a L HT2. It took me about one switchback to get used to navigating. Its really quite easy, front end stays down do to better seated position. When I did have to get out of the saddle it was fairly normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Nice bike! I found that the color really seems to vary in person based on lighting, in a darker showroom the color is fairly dark, with moderate lighting conditions it is more like royal blue/ blue angels color, and with the sun shining right on it it looks fairly light in color. This blue really is like a whole different color depending on the lighting, IMO, its like a chameleon paint color.

    How does this bike roll compared to your old one, and do you think it pedals slow with those tires? I am looking for the perfect 1 bike and the one I rode with dhr2 front and rear was a little slow (see the other future hightower thread) but I think its just the tires.
    Color is strangely cool. I really wanted the desert tan, but the blue in person is something else. Bike rolls awesome. No complaints. Very fast and efficient. FWIW, I never rode the Minions. I swapped wheels and tires immediately. I like my Honchos...

    Quote Originally Posted by ribbs76 View Post
    iíve rode a good amount of tight switch trails since getting mine over a week ago and it handles quite well. You need to be aggressive with it as itís not super poppy, but after a few runs you get to know the bike and how to handle it. It gets more fun with each ride in my view. Iím also loving every minute of it. Very versatile, iím ploughing through crud and racing up tight switch backs. If anything, my abilities are limiting me, not the bike.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Agreed. I say this about every new bike I get, but I think this one's a keeper. Bike designers / engineers are really finding the sweet spots for mountain bikes. They have never been more capable at everything until now...
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    blue looks amazing!!

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    I'm putting this review here, as the "Future Hightower" Thread seems irrelevant, since people have these now.

    I picked up an C R build from my LBS. I wanted a S build but they are all sold out and not available until late summer.. (I also tried to order a frame-only to no avail). I wanted to buy local to support brick and mortar stores, as that is important to me.

    First, I LOVE my OGHT. There was basically no original piece on it anymore, it was just a little small for my almost 6'1" body. It did everything for me to 50mile endurace races, 1 hour singletrack rips from mellow to wild. I really liked it. Just a tad to small. If I was 5'10" it would've been perfect.

    I have to say without a shadow of the doubt, the new HT is amazing. I bike several times a week and consider myself pretty fit and capable with confidence. I swapped what I wanted from my OGHT to new one and dropped 2.5 lbs. Some upgrades are: i9 hubs laced to Stans Arch 30s / Carbon Next SL 170 cranks / 1x11 gx drivetrain (Eagle is so heavy and so unnessary IMHO) / 2.6 / 2.4 Honchos. I have a better cockpit / brakes / dropper on my OG, but I need to keep them on there for selling (selling super cheap, FYI size L 2018 gray).

    My plans are swapping out the MC dampener to a Charger pretty soon (pretty cheap upgrade) and get some XT 4 piston brakes. Everything else just works.

    One thing to note about this bike is the reach and wheelbase is definitely longer (size L is almost 2 inches longer), however the ETT is a tad shorter, which means the seated climbing position feels close due to the steeper STA. It feels good, and works really, really well and effective. It also works slightly different leg muscles, but its real natural. On the flat and down tech its easier to navigate through tight sections due the a better size for me. I really, really like this bike. The blue is crazy weird in the sun. There is a slight magenta or purple hue when the light hits it right. Its really beautiful actually.
    Did you try an XL?

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    Did you try an XL?
    no. In Vermont we have tight techy singletrack. The large fits perfect as I am a little over 6'.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    no. In Vermont we have tight techy singletrack. The large fits perfect as I am a little over 6'.
    I guess that's the beauty of modern bikes/geometry/sizing, there's a lot more overlap and potential for folks to up/down-size according to their terrain and riding style. How do you find the cockpit length when seated? What length stem/bars are you running?

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    I'm 6' and have a XL on the way.
    Anyone else doing the same?
    Probably put a 40mm stem on.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    I guess that's the beauty of modern bikes/geometry/sizing, there's a lot more overlap and potential for folks to up/down-size according to their terrain and riding style. How do you find the cockpit length when seated? What length stem/bars are you running?
    cockpit length feels comfy. A real natural position. Over-all the bike is way more room then my OGHT in a size L. I am running just the stock 50mm stem and 780 bars.

    If I lived somewhere with a ton of exposed trail, sizing up and running a 30mm stem would be ideal, however we have very dense trees, and tight trails.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tree View Post
    I'm 6' and have a XL on the way.
    Anyone else doing the same?
    Probably put a 40mm stem on.
    I'm 6'1'' (185cm) and ordering an XL. Will run a 35mm stem.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    Its awesome. But so is OGHT.
    Could you provide some details on the Teravail Honchos you're running? Specs and impressions would be awesome!

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    I rode the CC large reserve build this week at SC's factory so I though I'd put my.. thoughts.

    I own and ride a HT"1" with fox components and eagle, and light carbon hoops normally.

    - i can tell there's a difference in weight, though its at least partially due to the difference in components

    - SC's handlebar is stiff as hell. I never had one before - I would never want one haha.

    - The frame of the HT is great. It fixes all the things I wanted fixed on the current HT and then more. it climbs way better full open (its fantastic) and it also descends better. I'd say "20% better" if I had to put a number on it. The 170mm dropper is great for the new geo as well. I almost feel like I'm on a DH bike from a position point of view and how low I can get.

    - Rockshox still sucks. The dropped got stuck twice. Brand new dropper. lol.

    - The shock and fork are alright, good mid support, bad upper sensitivity. I would swap to Fox which are way better in the start of the travel and much more sensitive for both fork and shock, while their mid support is still pretty good IMO.

    - I have a remote lockout on my current HT, i'd think hard about it if I had the HT2. I think its truly not necessary even when you try to optimize everything. The only time I wanted lockout is climbing out of the saddle. The rest of the time it feels like your shock is between the "half locked" and "fully locked" setting when pedaling full open (ie perfect) and full open but descending.

    - I felt very far forward on the bike on the L (I'm between M and L usually). it's great for climbing and flat terrain but it got me worried size-wise. Then on the descend, I could get further backward than on my HT and that's where I really realized what they've done. L is in fact the perfect size for me, and with the new seat tube angle you both have better climbing traction full open with little energy loss, but also your front wheel sticks to the ground. Going down you're so easily at the right spot that it does not matter. This is because of where the pedals are in relation to the seat tube. Great stuff.

    - Bike is even more stable than before. I went faster than I normally do without thinking about it

    That's about it. My only real concern is the price and the fact that it doesnt ship with a fox shock. The additional weight can be offset largely with different component choice, even if I'd indeed prefer it to be the old weight, the advantages completely erase this issue for me.

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    How tall are you? What size was your HT1?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imagesforsegways View Post
    How tall are you? What size was your HT1?
    5"11 / 170lbs HT medium

    The medium was a bit too small for me, the L was ok but felt a bit too large at times, I picked the M for weight & "flickability" I guess ;-) Did not regret the choice at all for the HT1, but the HT2.0 in L is actually the perfect size for me

    also if anyone wants a perfect condition super-high-end HT1 so that I can afford part of the HT2... lol.

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    Iíve a tan XXL S Carbon C on its way.
    Iím 6í7Ē with 37Ē inseam.
    I sat on a xxl demo bike at sc hq parking lot. loving the geo for my body type.

    99spokes.com just added the bike to their geo comparison site. The wheelbase on this bike is huge and I like it.

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    If anyone is interested in a Large Tan CC either x01 or xx1 axs built with or without reserves mesaage me. We ordered one for a customer a while ago and he canceled last minute because he wanted a bigger travel bike.

  79. #79
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    I demoed a Med CC XO1 build with carbon wheels from the SC factory yesterday.
    I'm 5-9 and the fit was perfect.
    My current bike is a 2018 S works Enduro 29er with a fox X2 and 36 fork.
    I have to laugh at how so many people have been talking about the extra weight on this bike and how slow the tires roll on the new HT.
    The damn thing is a rocket. It felt light and fast to me!! The HT climbs so damn well. one of the best climbing bikes I've ridden. It accelerates quickly and is glued to the ground in the corners. I personally loved the DHR tires front and back. I usually run 2.5 DHF front and 2.5 Aggressor in the back.
    I got in several loops and got more comfortable on the bike as time went on. I had my fastest time on one of the climbs and on a DH. Both that Ive ridden dozens of times.
    I liked everything about the build I rode except the price. The suspension worked fine but I think I would prefer the 36 up front.
    I have not ridden a HT before but Ive ridden several current SC bikes. Never loved the older VPPs but the last two SC bikes I've ridden were the new design which I really like!
    The bike is playful for a 29er too.
    Very good bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boubla View Post
    - SC's handlebar is stiff as hell. I never had one before - I would never want one haha.
    Serious question: How is that a bad thing? I have some very flexy carbon bars on my own bike and liked the bars on the SC better. The flexy bars are pretty fragile and I felt comfortable on the SC bars.
    Quote Originally Posted by dp400 View Post
    I have to laugh at how so many people have been talking about the extra weight on this bike and how slow the tires roll on the new HT.
    The damn thing is a rocket. It felt light and fast to me!!
    It's all relative, the new hightower felt like a tank to me compared to a 5010 with the same build kit that I jumped on for a few seconds when demoing the new hightower. The 5010 weighed several pounds less and has narrower maxxis tires.

    Not that I don't like the new hightower, its just all relative. The weight of the bike in the higher-end builds is probably light enough but I know I am not the only person who prefers a narrower, faster rolling rear tire than what is on the new hightower.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Serious question: How is that a bad thing? I have some very flexy carbon bars on my own bike and liked the bars on the SC better. The flexy bars are pretty fragile and I felt comfortable on the SC bars.
    .
    same as with too stiff carbon wheels, it can be harsh on your wrists/hands but itís all personal preference, but just like wheels bars can be too stiff. we see a lot of racers and regular average joes that prefer alloy because they are more comfortable in rough terrain

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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post

    Not that I don't like the new hightower, its just all relative. The weight of the bike in the higher-end builds is probably light enough but I know I am not the only person who prefers a narrower, faster rolling rear tire than what is on the new hightower.
    Just put on the tires you prefer. SC canít spec tires that suit everyone.


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    How different is the new Desert color from the tan used on the new Nomad when it was first released?

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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    It's all relative, the new hightower felt like a tank to me compared to a 5010 with the same build kit that I jumped on for a few seconds when demoing the new hightower. The 5010 weighed several pounds less and has narrower maxxis tires.

    Not that I don't like the new hightower, its just all relative. The weight of the bike in the higher-end builds is probably light enough but I know I am not the only person who prefers a narrower, faster rolling rear tire than what is on the new hightower.
    For sure its all relative.
    It was just funny hearing these concerns when I was thinking the weight was great and the speed was on point.
    I like beefier tires so I would not change to anything much lighter for the riding I like to do and I do not want to hassle with flats!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Serious question: How is that a bad thing? I have some very flexy carbon bars on my own bike and liked the bars on the SC better. The flexy bars are pretty fragile and I felt comfortable on the SC bars.

    It's all relative, the new hightower felt like a tank to me compared to a 5010 with the same build kit that I jumped on for a few seconds when demoing the new hightower. The 5010 weighed several pounds less and has narrower maxxis tires.

    Not that I don't like the new hightower, its just all relative. The weight of the bike in the higher-end builds is probably light enough but I know I am not the only person who prefers a narrower, faster rolling rear tire than what is on the new hightower.
    27.5 wheels all things being equal will make the bike lighter than a 29íer (smaller wheels, less material, etc.).

    While aluminum bars will flex more, they wonít absorb small rock chatter as well as carbon bars. Also, there are infinite layup combinations / recipes for carbon, and many manufacturers build in a bit more flex while others choose not to. This is the basis for how a road bike performs (more flex for seat stays, less for chain stays etc.). You can literally design any flex / stiffness you want to.

    If the new HT is a pound or so heavier, I am sure it is well offset by both the climbing efficiency due to the steeper seat tube angle and longer reach, as well as the (according to reviews) better descending with the 2 degree slacker head tube angle and the performance gains of the lower VPP. A pound is not going to impact even 3 hour, 30 mile, 3000 elevation gain ride one bit.

    My X01 non reserve build is hopefully 2 weeks out now for delivery (current OGHT owner)


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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    same as with too stiff carbon wheels, it can be harsh on your wrists/hands but itís all personal preference, but just like wheels bars can be too stiff. we see a lot of racers and regular average joes that prefer alloy because they are more comfortable in rough terrain
    Ok that makes sense, I preferred alloy wheels for the same reasons, or at least mostly because I did not want to spend over $1000 for an upgrade to carbon wheels that weighed only a tiny bit less but were also kind of harsh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_rider View Post
    Just put on the tires you prefer. SC canít spec tires that suit everyone.


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    I don't expect them to fit everyone and I plan on doing just that, the point was that to some people like me they pedal slow but if you are used to a big enduro bike the new hightower probably feels fast yet still very capable.
    Quote Originally Posted by dp400 View Post
    For sure its all relative.
    It was just funny hearing these concerns when I was thinking the weight was great and the speed was on point.
    I like beefier tires so I would not change to anything much lighter for the riding I like to do and I do not want to hassle with flats!!
    Oh yeah for sure, SC built the bike with more of an emphasis on downhill performance this time (I think) so the tires do make sense. I plan on keeping the DHR2 front and rear combo for at least a downhill ride or two before seeing what tires I go with.

    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    27.5 wheels all things being equal will make the bike lighter than a 29íer (smaller wheels, less material, etc.).

    While aluminum bars will flex more, they wonít absorb small rock chatter as well as carbon bars. Also, there are infinite layup combinations / recipes for carbon, and many manufacturers build in a bit more flex while others choose not to. This is the basis for how a road bike performs (more flex for seat stays, less for chain stays etc.). You can literally design any flex / stiffness you want to.

    If the new HT is a pound or so heavier, I am sure it is well offset by both the climbing efficiency due to the steeper seat tube angle and longer reach, as well as the (according to reviews) better descending with the 2 degree slacker head tube angle and the performance gains of the lower VPP. A pound is not going to impact even 3 hour, 30 mile, 3000 elevation gain ride one bit.

    My X01 non reserve build is hopefully 2 weeks out now for delivery (current OGHT owner)


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    Yeah I thought about that after my post, the 5010 is probably not the best comparison for that reason and the bikes probably aren't worlds apart in riding behavior either compared to some other bikes that I could have put as an example.

    As I just wrote above this, the point that I maybe should have made is that if you are coming from a long travel enduro bike with some wide maxxis the new hightower will probably feel fast and capable, but if you are like me and are coming from a light bike then the new hightower is probably not going to feel amazingly fast but I think its worth it. The bike pedaled so well though that I don't feel like I would be riding too much bike around XC stuff and it was surprisingly agile. The bike is light enough for its capabilities and will be great with some of my preferential changes.

    Also good info about the aluminum bars, the aluminum ones that came on my bike were overbuilt, heavy, and stiff and the carbon bars that I put on to replace them were light and flexy. So I went from one extreme to another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Ok that makes sense, I preferred alloy wheels for the same reasons, or at least mostly because I did not want to spend over $1000 for an upgrade to carbon wheels that weighed only a tiny bit less but were also kind of harsh.
    the reserve 30 would save 130grms at most compared to my alloy ex 1501 with torque cap thatís at 1940 with tape and valves.

    reserves are quite heavy for carbon

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    Hightower V2

    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    the reserve 30 would save 130grms at most compared to my alloy ex 1501 with torque cap thatís at 1940 with tape and valves.

    reserves are quite heavy for carbon
    If thatís the case, multiply the static weight by roughly 2 due to angular momentum of a wheel - so 260 grams, then multiplied by 2 for two wheels equals 520 grams, or just over a pound of rolling mass with the added benefit of less flexing under pedal load = more efficient.

    Also, 5010 not only has smaller wheels, but smaller fork, smaller linkage, smaller shock, etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NateMob View Post
    Could you provide some details on the Teravail Honchos you're running? Specs and impressions would be awesome!
    They are actually pretty finicky.. They need to have perfect pressure, or they squirm (supple sidewalls) Not that its hard to check every ride, but you cant run them with too low air pressure. I am thinking of maybe putting in some cushcore to help with sidewall flex. Also, I took a bad spill on them on wet terrain a month ago, and have not had confidence in them since... My old 3C Rekons were awesome. Super sticky and fast.

    Also went on a 2.5 hour ride this morning in one of our more challenging networks (about 3.5K of climbing in about 9 miles...) and awesome technical descents, and I must say, the updated geoometry is night and day 100% better. The seated climbing position is so great. It just goes where you point it. It is also easier to quickly change lines climbing tight trail. As before on my OGHT, to quickly change a line on a climb required a little body english, however this newer Hightower is so spritely! It jumps so much better too. Its over-all a better bike in every way.

    The weight should be a non issue (granted I dropped 2.5 lbs on mine), the bike rides so well. Very peppy. The geo and efficiency of the lower link VPP is dead perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    If thatís the case, multiply the static weight by roughly 2 due to angular momentum of a wheel - so 260 grams, then multiplied by 2 for two wheels equals 520 grams, or just over a pound of rolling mass with the added benefit of less flexing under pedal load = more efficient.
    This is magical thinking. Iím a proponent of carbon wheels for their weight and ride characteristics. But this is just plain not how anything works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    If thatís the case, multiply the static weight by roughly 2 due to angular momentum of a wheel - so 260 grams, then multiplied by 2 for two wheels equals 520 grams, or just over a pound of rolling mass with the added benefit of less flexing under pedal load = more efficient.

    Also, 5010 not only has smaller wheels, but smaller fork, smaller linkage, smaller shock, etc.


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    130 grms total for the wheelset, my ex 1501 is at 1940 grms with torque cap adapters the lightest 30 29Ē according to SC is 1811 grms, weight savings would not be the reason Iíd upgrade!

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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Serious question: How is that a bad thing? I have some very flexy carbon bars on my own bike and liked the bars on the SC better. The flexy bars are pretty fragile and I felt comfortable on the SC bars.
    Serious answer then, material with no give is weaker. that said its not the issue, bar with a bit of give (they don't have to be noodles..) will absorb chatter and impacts. A lot of riders prefer aluminum handle bars because of this, but quite a few brands have good carbon handle bars these days with the right amount of flex. Just 1 or 2mm of give makes a huge difference in feel.
    At this price point i expect all components to be in the same range as the best stuff you can get

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    Hightower V2

    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    This is magical thinking. Iím a proponent of carbon wheels for their weight and ride characteristics. But this is just plain not how anything works.
    Sorry, meant ďmoment of inertiaĒ not angular momentum. The principle still holds. Rolling weight is approx 2x the actual weight. For example, if one tire is 100 grams lighter than another, than it feels like 200 grams lighter per tire when you try to accelerate (I.e., when climbing). 414 grams equals one pound, so for two tires (or rims, anything that is rolling towards the outside of the wheel) that save a total of 200 grams, this times 2 would feel like almost a pound in weight savings when accelerating. This topic has been discussed thousands of times in bike forums.


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    ~454 grams = one pound

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    There seriously is almost no weight difference between the regular wheels in the xo1 build and the carbon upgrade though, only .13 pounds which is about 59 grams according to google. For $1200, that is basically 0 upgrade in terms of weight. Assuming that each wheel gets 30 grams lighter when putting the carbon rims on instead of the raceface arcs, that might not even be noticeable. In that case, its only worth it to upgrade to carbon for the stiffness, durability, and SC lifetime warranty, and not weight. For the cheaper builds, the weight difference is more so the upgrade has more effect, but then the bike has dt 370 hubs so you probably wouldn't do the carbon upgrade anyways. But then on the build level that you would actually want to pay to throw reserves on, the upgrade (if you only want to save weight) is questionable.

    Source: Select the xo1 build on the SC website and watch the weight go from 29.96 pounds default to 29.83 pounds when you select the reserve option.

    Quote Originally Posted by boubla View Post
    At this price point i expect all components to be in the same range as the best stuff you can get
    Good points in general and I agree with this statement. At least on the XO1 build I think the spec has everything you could possibly want, I would pick a different dropper than the reverb due to reliabilty issues and pick my own tires but everything else seems good. Handlebars are a personal preference and I am not that picky TBH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Sorry, meant ďmoment of inertiaĒ not angular momentum. The principle still holds. Rolling weight is approx 2x the actual weight. For example, if one tire is 100 grams lighter than another, than it feels like 200 grams lighter per tire when you try to accelerate (I.e., when climbing). 414 grams equals one pound, so for two tires (or rims, anything that is rolling towards the outside of the wheel) that save a total of 200 grams, this times 2 would feel like almost a pound in weight savings when accelerating. This topic has been discussed thousands of times in bike forums.


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    Youíre pulling numbers out of nowhere. I mean, I get that youíre probably just repeating something youíve picked up along the way, but itís wildly hyperbolic. You simply cannot quantify this in the way that youíre describing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    For the cheaper builds, the weight difference is more so the upgrade has more effect, but then the bike has dt 370 hubs so you probably wouldn't do the carbon upgrade anyways
    That's one thing that bugs me with their pricing structure (or whatever you want to call it). If I'm paying for upgraded wheels I want to upgrade the whole wheel and not just the rim, even if it costs a little more. I'm not sure why they'd go to the trouble of stocking/building another combo of Reserve/370 instead of just offering the standard Reserve/350 as the upgrade even if it's a few bucks more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwapik View Post
    ~454 grams = one pound
    My error. Typo, yes, 454 g = one pound.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Youíre pulling numbers out of nowhere. I mean, I get that youíre probably just repeating something youíve picked up along the way, but itís wildly hyperbolic. You simply cannot quantify this in the way that youíre describing.
    Nope, pulling numbers from physics. Not ďnowhere.Ē

    http://teacher.pas.rochester.edu/phy...Chapter12.html

    The translational energy of a wheel is (1/2)mv^2.

    The rotational energy of a wheel is (1/2)Iω^2.

    The total energy of a wheel is then 1/2(mv^2 + Iω^2).

    For a wheel with all mass at the outer edge, I=mr^2, and for a rolling wheel. ω=v/r.

    Substituting, we have 1/2(mv^2 + Iω^2) = 1/2((mv^2 + (mr^2)(v/2)^2) = 1/2(mv^2 + mv^2). That is precisely 2x. A real wheel will be less that 2x because its mass isn't concentrated at the outer edge. Bicycle wheels are at about 1.7x in reality when you include the hub weight.

    Please advance the discussion. If you have a counter argument based on physics, let us know. But the general rule of thumb covered in these forums for years is rotating mass is approx 2x static mass.



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    Iím not interested in arguing, but Iím just going to say that the implications of the equations you mentioned arenít really what youíre saying they are, and that the ideas youíre saying have been widely and thoroughly debunked. An easy search will tell you that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    That's one thing that bugs me with their pricing structure (or whatever you want to call it). If I'm paying for upgraded wheels I want to upgrade the whole wheel and not just the rim, even if it costs a little more. I'm not sure why they'd go to the trouble of stocking/building another combo of Reserve/370 instead of just offering the standard Reserve/350 as the upgrade even if it's a few bucks more.
    Yeah, I'm with you. I can not fathom why SC would even build the Reserves with the 370 series hub. As someone else mentioned - with their buying power - there can not be much difference in oem pricing between the hubs. In addition, you'd think SC would want a better hub with their premium wheelsets.

    I'm going to blame it on the bean counters 😀

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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Iím not interested in arguing, but Iím just going to say that the implications of the equations you mentioned arenít really what youíre saying they are, and that the ideas youíre saying have been widely and thoroughly debunked. An easy search will tell you that.
    Canít seem to find anything that debunks this. I am open to alternative views on the topic. Go ahead and forward your info so we can all learn. Enjoy your day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Iím not interested in arguing, but Iím just going to say that the implications of the equations you mentioned arenít really what youíre saying they are, and that the ideas youíre saying have been widely and thoroughly debunked. An easy search will tell you that.
    So why did you not carry out this easy search and post the facts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac48 View Post
    So why did you not carry out this easy search and post the facts?
    My sentiment exactly. My perhaps biased view has been the ď2xĒ rule of thumb was common knowledge. Apparently there is new info this gentleman is privy to. But if doesnít want to argue (I should have known this since he started debating me on the topic) thatís his right

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    I went to my LBS yesterday and checked out a carbon s build Hightower.

    It was an XL so a little big for me at 5í10Ē (I usually ride a large), but I really liked it. It felt natural to me, felt like an evolution of my OGHT.

    Iím leaning towards pulling the trigger and debating whether Iíd care about the extra 200g of frame weight in the long run.

    I had the shop weigh it and it was 32.9 lbs with shitty plastic pedals on it. Iím guessing those are .75-1 lb each, so it should be close to the advertised 31.5 lb.

    Iíd swap my wheels, cranks, bars, and maybe do a X01 cassette. That would drop it to the same weight as a X01 build.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    My sentiment exactly. My perhaps biased view has been the ď2xĒ rule of thumb was common knowledge. Apparently there is new info this gentleman is privy to. But if doesnít want to argue (I should have known this since he started debating me on the topic) thatís his right
    Nah man, itís not like that. You tried telling a dude that by saving 130g off his wheel set weight, that it would be just like saving 500+ grams, and thatís just insane. Totally wrong. My point wasnít to debate you, but if youíre telling people this shit, thatís actively unhelpful.

    Youíre citing an equation that shows that it takes less energy to accelerate a lighter rim than a heavier rim. Thatís not at all the same as what youíre saying it means. If you go from a 1900g wheel set to a 1600g wheelset, itís going to feel like you saved 600g? What does that even mean? If you go from a 200g wheelset to that exact same 1600g wheelset, itís going to feel like you saved 800g? No no no. The same wheel set is going to feel either 300 or 400 grams lighter than it actually is depending on which wheel set you came from? Thatís not what any of your equations mean.

    So, yes, it takes less energy to spin up a lighter rim when accelerating. But the difference vs static weight really only applies when accelerating, and more to the point needs to be taken as part of the whole system, including rider weight. Meaning that the real world effect of saving 100g of rotating weight vs 100g of static weight is infinitesimally small.


    Iím not researching this for you. Itís not hard to figure out. Google ďrotating vs static weightĒ or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Nah man, itís not like that. You tried telling a dude that by saving 130g off his wheel set weight, that it would be just like saving 500+ grams, and thatís just insane. Totally wrong. My point wasnít to debate you, but if youíre telling people this shit, thatís actively unhelpful.

    Youíre citing an equation that shows that it takes less energy to accelerate a lighter rim than a heavier rim. Thatís not at all the same as what youíre saying it means. If you go from a 1900g wheel set to a 1600g wheelset, itís going to feel like you saved 600g? What does that even mean? If you go from a 200g wheelset to that exact same 1600g wheelset, itís going to feel like you saved 800g? No no no. The same wheel set is going to feel either 300 or 400 grams lighter than it actually is depending on which wheel set you came from? Thatís not what any of your equations mean.

    So, yes, it takes less energy to spin up a lighter rim when accelerating. But the difference vs static weight really only applies when accelerating, and more to the point needs to be taken as part of the whole system, including rider weight. Meaning that the real world effect of saving 100g of rotating weight vs 100g of static weight is infinitesimally small.


    Iím not researching this for you. Itís not hard to figure out. Google ďrotating vs static weightĒ or something like that.
    I thought he meant 130 g per wheel.

    Per physics already posted:

    130 g x 2 (rolling mass factor) = 260 g per wheel x 2 wheels = 520 g.

    One pound = 454 g so over a pound rolling mass reduction if it were a 130 g reduction per wheel.

    If 130 g for entire wheel set it would feel like approx half pound rotating mass loss. 130 g x 2 = 260 g. One pound = 454 g.

    Nothing I have said is incorrect and the physics of what I posted directly applies. You saying it doesnít to be frank doesnít mean anything. Please feel free to do your own research on the topic. Or donít.

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    Your equations just donít measure what you think they do. You can measure how many fewer joules it takes to accelerate a lighter wheel than a heavier one. You canít then convert that energy into a number of grams that the rider will ďfeel,Ē something thatís entirely subjective. Youíre actually trying to assert that if I switch from a 1900 gram wheelset to a 1600g wheelset, that will feel to me like a 1300g wheelset? What if you make that same switchóthatís going to feel the same? And the way it feels to you is the same as what it will feel like to you? What if thereís a fifty pound difference between our bodies? Thatís still going to ďfeelĒ like a 600g weight savings to both of us?

    All thatís happening is that Iím saving 300g from the total weight of my bike. When I accelerate those wheels, Iíll save a little bit of energy. That small energy savings is an argument as to why itís better to save weight at the rim that at the frame, but in practical terms, itís a very small difference. The thing youíre asserting is definitely a widespread idea, but itís a mishmash of layperson physics, and it drastically distorts/exaggerates the real world effects of switching to a lighter rim.

    Anyway, Iím done after this. Internet pissing matches arenít my thing. Believe what feels best to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I thought he meant 130 g per wheel.

    Per physics already posted:

    130 g x 2 (rolling mass factor) = 260 g per wheel x 2 wheels = 520 g.

    One pound = 454 g so over a pound rolling mass reduction if it were a 130 g reduction per wheel.

    If 130 g for entire wheel set it would feel like approx half pound rotating mass loss. 130 g x 2 = 260 g. One pound = 454 g.

    Nothing I have said is incorrect and the physics of what I posted directly applies. You saying it doesnít to be frank doesnít mean anything. Please feel free to do your own research on the topic. Or donít.
    Last edited by cogswell23; 07-15-2019 at 08:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cogswell23 View Post
    Your equations just donít measure what you think they do. You can measure how many fewer joules it takes to accelerate a lighter wheel than a heavier one. You canít then convert that energy into a number of grams that the rider will ďfeel,Ē something thatís entirely subjective. Youíre actually trying to assert that if I switch from a 1900 gram wheelset to a 1600g wheelset, that will feel to me like a 1300g wheelset? What if you make that same switchóthatís going to feel the same? And the way it feels to you is the same as what it will feel like to you? What if thereís a fifty pound difference between our bodies? Thatís still going to ďfeelĒ like a 600g weight savings to both of us?

    All thatís happening is that Iím saving 300g from the total weight of my bike. When I accelerate those wheels, Iíll save a little bit of energy. That small energy savings are an argument as to why itís better to save weight at the rim that at the frame, but in practical terms, itís a very small difference. The thing youíre asserting is definitely a widespread idea, but itís a mishmash of layperson physics, and it drastically distorts/exaggerates the real world effects of switching to a lighter rim.

    Anyway, Iím done after this. Internet pissing matches arenít my thing. Believe what feels best to you.
    I certainly don't believe you. I believe the facts. Here are two sources. Please feel free to update your knowledge base on this topic. Pertinent parts highlighted for the TL;DR crowd.

    Another source:

    https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=7559

    Yes, the wheel weight counts more than the frame weight. The reason is that when you accelerate the bike everything moves forward together but the wheels also rotate. The average velocity over the whole wheel is the same as the rest of the bike, because the different parts move all the different directions in a circle. however, energy goes as the square of the velocity, and the rotational energy of the wheel just adds to the energy of the average motion. So you have to pump more energy into the bike to get a pound of wheel moving than to get a pound of frame moving.

    If all the weight of the wheel were out at the rim (which isnít too far from true) the total wheel energy per pound would be twice the frame energy per pound, i.e. equal rotational and static weight. The real rotational number would be a little less.

    Of course if youíre going uphill, the extra work to lift the bike against gravity only depends on the ordinary weight, not how itís distributed.

    As for weight on you or the bike, I guess they count the same, except that the weight on you has to get lugged around even when you're not on the bike.

    And, of course, I couldn't ignore Wikipedia, ya know, doing research and stuff.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

    Advantages of light wheels
    The mass of tires and rims must be accelerated linearly and rotationally. It can be shown that the effect of rim and tire mass of typical spoked wheels is effectively doubled. Reducing their mass is thus especially noticeable in the case of sprints and corner "jumps" in a criterium.[18]

    Power for acceleration
    The power {\displaystyle P_{A}} P_{A} for accelerating the bike and rider having total mass m with acceleration a and rotationally also the wheels having mass {\displaystyle m_{w}} m_{w} is:

    {\displaystyle P_{A}\approx v_{r}(m+m_{w})a} P_{A}\approx v_{r}(m+m_{w})a
    The approximation is valid if {\displaystyle m_{w}} m_{w} is assumed to be concentrated at the rims and tires and these are not slipping. The mass of such wheels can thus be counted twice for this calculation, independent of the wheels' sizes.

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    good god you two...
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    back to the v2!

    for those that got the bike already! did anyone get more riding time? any additional feedback!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    good god you two...
    Yeah, my bad. I started that and was a lot snippier than I needed to be.

    Apologies for the digression. Letís get the focus back on this rad bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    Nope, pulling numbers from physics. Not ďnowhere.Ē

    12. ROLLING, TORQUE AND ANGULAR MOMENTUM

    The translational energy of a wheel is (1/2)mv^2.

    The rotational energy of a wheel is (1/2)Iω^2.

    The total energy of a wheel is then 1/2(mv^2 + Iω^2).

    For a wheel with all mass at the outer edge, I=mr^2, and for a rolling wheel. ω=v/r.

    Substituting, we have 1/2(mv^2 + Iω^2) = 1/2((mv^2 + (mr^2)(v/2)^2) = 1/2(mv^2 + mv^2). That is precisely 2x. A real wheel will be less that 2x because its mass isn't concentrated at the outer edge. Bicycle wheels are at about 1.7x in reality when you include the hub weight.

    Please advance the discussion. If you have a counter argument based on physics, let us know. But the general rule of thumb covered in these forums for years is rotating mass is approx 2x static mass.



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  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    back to the v2!

    for those that got the bike already! did anyone get more riding time? any additional feedback!?
    I've done 3 rides in the last 4 days, and going again this evening after work. Bike does everything better. Climbing tight switchbacks is a breeze even though its 2 inches longer then my old OGHT (size L). Steep STA is a win. Also in the air its more composed. There are ladder drops on one of our trails, and I am hitting them faster then before. I have time to think in the air before I land, rather then previously the drops would go by in an instance and felt a little sketchy.

    Its a real stable nice bike. Glad I pulled the trigger.
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  115. #115
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    How does the new rear setup take sharp edged hits? Does it hang like the upper link VPP version?

    Would be interesting to see axle path comparisons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    Nice review, thanks. I am in almost the identical position as you except my oght is orange. How does the large (assume you bought the large) HT v2 get around tight switchbacks(both up and down)? That is probably my only concern with the new geo is that it may be more difficult to handle in tight situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by agreenbike View Post
    Nice bike! I found that the color really seems to vary in person based on lighting, in a darker showroom the color is fairly dark, with moderate lighting conditions it is more like royal blue/ blue angels color, and with the sun shining right on it it looks fairly light in color. This blue really is like a whole different color depending on the lighting, IMO, its like a chameleon paint color.

    How does this bike roll compared to your old one, and do you think it pedals slow with those tires? I am looking for the perfect 1 bike and the one I rode with dhr2 front and rear was a little slow (see the other future hightower thread) but I think its just the tires.
    Quote Originally Posted by ribbs76 View Post
    iíve rode a good amount of tight switch trails since getting mine over a week ago and it handles quite well. You need to be aggressive with it as itís not super poppy, but after a few runs you get to know the bike and how to handle it. It gets more fun with each ride in my view. Iím also loving every minute of it. Very versatile, iím ploughing through crud and racing up tight switch backs. If anything, my abilities are limiting me, not the bike.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    How does the new rear setup take sharp edged hits? Does it hang like the upper link VPP version?

    Would be interesting to see axle path comparisons.
    It feels very smooth. I had to slow down my rebound on the DPS: 11 clicks from closed (closed being fastest rebound).

    I think they really figured out the lower link set up. Feels really nice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    It feels very smooth. I had to slow down my rebound on the DPS: 11 clicks from closed (closed being fastest rebound).

    I think they really figured out the lower link set up. Feels really nice.
    Just FYI, closed is slowest rebound. So you are 11 from open. Closed/open refers to the size of the orifice that the oil flows through, closed would be the smallest orifice and thus slowest rebound.

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    So there's really no way to put a real shock on this bike? Super disappointing. I would love this bike with a coil shock on it.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber252 View Post
    Just FYI, closed is slowest rebound. So you are 11 from open. Closed/open refers to the size of the orifice that the oil flows through, closed would be the smallest orifice and thus slowest rebound.
    And it's not that useful to note you are "X" clicks from open because different shocks will have a different number of adjust clicks to get to open just due to manufacturing tolerances. Once you have the damper orifice at max size any extra clicks are meaningless from a performance perspective.

    OTOH - closed is the same on every shock so providing "X" clicks from closed allows other people to understand/replicate where your damper is set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post

    Its a real stable nice bike. Glad I pulled the trigger.
    Haha I wanna pull the trigger too, but first, to find a way to sell the older high tower.. which seems quite hard to do right now ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmrocks View Post
    So there's really no way to put a real shock on this bike? Super disappointing. I would love this bike with a coil shock on it.
    Honestly if you want to do that I think you want the Megatower, which will work with a coil too!
    Very very similar bikes (look at geo numbers), the Megatower is just bigger-shocked and bigger-forked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber252 View Post
    Just FYI, closed is slowest rebound. So you are 11 from open. Closed/open refers to the size of the orifice that the oil flows through, closed would be the smallest orifice and thus slowest rebound.
    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    And it's not that useful to note you are "X" clicks from open because different shocks will have a different number of adjust clicks to get to open just due to manufacturing tolerances. Once you have the damper orifice at max size any extra clicks are meaningless from a performance perspective.

    OTOH - closed is the same on every shock so providing "X" clicks from closed allows other people to understand/replicate where your damper is set.
    Sorry guys, I got it backwards because of fork orientation... I am basically running a tad slower rebound then starting in the middle position (full open to full closed)

    Quote Originally Posted by boubla View Post
    Haha I wanna pull the trigger too, but first, to find a way to sell the older high tower.. which seems quite hard to do right now ;-)
    I sold mine in under 24 hours. I was nervous too, so I priced it pretty low (still paid for over half the cost of new one - plus I kept my i9s and Next SL crankset!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    Sorry guys, I got it backwards because of fork orientation... I am basically running a tad slower rebound then starting in the middle position (full open to full closed)
    Still not useful for others since that middle position is different on every shock because where the knob stops on the open end is different on every shock.

    Lets say that one shock has 14 clicks from closed to open, and another has 16. They will both be at the actual full open at some point 14 or less, but have more clicks past full open. So, if you set the first shock say 1 click slower than the middle, it will be 6 clicks from full closed, but do the same with the second, and it will be 7 clicks from full closes and thus have different settings. The only way to state your settings in a way that means anything to anyone but you, is to state number of clicks from full closed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boubla View Post
    Honestly if you want to do that I think you want the Megatower, which will work with a coil too!
    Very very similar bikes (look at geo numbers), the Megatower is just bigger-shocked and bigger-forked.
    completely agree with this. I loved riding the Megatower as well so while the new HT isnít a Megatower, there is some similar DNA in the design which made the HT perfect for me. Throw an AB oval chainring on the MT and new coil shock and you might just have what youíre looking for.

    Only thing iím finding bad on my HT is the engagement. 370 hubs delayed power combined with my dodgy skills ard causing some lost momentum for me on tech climbs. Iíll get better though.


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  125. #125
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    I just came back from my LBS and had a chance to test ride the new Hightower (Highlander Blue, C Frame, GX Build) on the roads immediately around the shop and compare it the geometry to my current OG HT (CC frame, X01 Build with XT brakes) which I took along with me to the shop.

    The differences between the bikes geometry-wise are NOT subtle and are a massive improvement.

    The first thing I immediately noticed was the better pedaling position. I am 5'10 with a 32" inseam and the steep 76.6 STA was very noticeable and felt REALLY good. One would think with the steeper STA that you would feel more "on top" of the bike, but this was absolutely not the case. You are in this incredible pedaling position, yet you feel like you are squarely in the middle of the bike (both seated and standing). The longer reach seemed to me only to be an asset. I tested it out on a minor concrete switchback with somewhat of a tight turn and had no issues with the length of the bike down or up.

    Pedaling the bike uphill was amazing. Incredibly efficient - I can't wait to try it out on steep, rocky terrain.

    Looking down, the top of the fork uppers are directly under the bars, and the 65 degree fork angle is very confidence inspiring.

    The bike did feel a "tad" heavy, but that was surely because of the C frame, aluminum wheels, aluminum bar, aluminum cranks, and flat pedals (my current HT is CC frame with carbon rims, carbon SRAM cranks, and NEXT 6C carbon bars). I am pretty sure that apples to apples, whatever small increase in frame weight everyone keeps talking about will not be noticed due to the better geo.

    The new SRAM Code Code R brakes were "ok." You still need a bit more "Activation energy" to get them to bite, but they are quieter than the SRAM brakes that originally came with my OG HT.

    After the test ride, I jumped back onto my current HT and the difference was felt immediately. Even though it was my own bike I have ridden hundreds of times, I felt really on top of the bike, and the front of the bike seemed much more "XC" feeling than what I just got off of. The HT2 just feels like a dramatically more capable bike.

    I have a L CC Highlander Blue X01 build on order and can't wait to ride it and come back with a more complete review. But as far as the "parking lot test" goes, this bike is significantly better for me in the geometry department than my current HT.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I just came back from my LBS and had a chance to test ride the new Hightower (Highlander Blue, C Frame, GX Build) on the roads immediately around the shop and compare it the geometry to my current OG HT (CC frame, X01 Build with XT brakes) which I took along with me to the shop.

    The differences between the bikes geometry-wise are NOT subtle and are a massive improvement.

    The first thing I immediately noticed was the better pedaling position. I am 5'10 with a 32" inseam and the steep 76.6 STA was very noticeable and felt REALLY good. One would think with the steeper STA that you would feel more "on top" of the bike, but this was absolutely not the case. You are in this incredible pedaling position, yet you feel like you are squarely in the middle of the bike (both seated and standing). The longer reach seemed to me only to be an asset. I tested it out on a minor concrete switchback with somewhat of a tight turn and had no issues with the length of the bike down or up.

    Pedaling the bike uphill was amazing. Incredibly efficient - I can't wait to try it out on steep, rocky terrain.

    Looking down, the top of the fork uppers are directly under the bars, and the 65 degree fork angle is very confidence inspiring.

    The bike did feel a "tad" heavy, but that was surely because of the C frame, aluminum wheels, aluminum bar, aluminum cranks, and flat pedals (my current HT is CC frame with carbon rims, carbon SRAM cranks, and NEXT 6C carbon bars). I am pretty sure that apples to apples, whatever small increase in frame weight everyone keeps talking about will not be noticed due to the better geo.

    The new SRAM Code Code R brakes were "ok." You still need a bit more "Activation energy" to get them to bite, but they are quieter than the SRAM brakes that originally came with my OG HT.

    After the test ride, I jumped back onto my current HT and the difference was felt immediately. Even though it was my own bike I have ridden hundreds of times, I felt really on top of the bike, and the front of the bike seemed much more "XC" feeling than what I just got off of. The HT2 just feels like a dramatically more capable bike.

    I have a L CC Highlander Blue X01 build on order and can't wait to ride it and come back with a more complete review. But as far as the "parking lot test" goes, this bike is significantly better for me in the geometry department than my current HT.
    Thanks for the review SDMTB'er!


    Has anyone sized "down" on the new Hightower coming from an OGHT or HTLT?

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    Haha I jumped back on my original HT this weekend and also felt pretty bad lol. I was hoping I wouldnt feel too much difference but now the HT feels like an XC bike to me too, which, honestly, it isn't *that* far from. It's a trail bike basically, which was a bit more slack than others when released.

    Just like the HT2 is more of a real blend of a enduro bike, etc. They keep pushing toward the slacker side and we keep getting used to it (also maintained bike trails keep getting more demanding in my experience, theres more and more technical terrain with larger jumps, drops, etc.). And yes, it also goes up better for me. I'm still curious if its actually faster going up, but it definitely feels better and feels faster as soon as the terrain becomes a little demanding.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmrocks View Post
    So there's really no way to put a real shock on this bike? Super disappointing. I would love this bike with a coil shock on it.
    wondering if push will find a way to get 11/6 to fit

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by boubla View Post
    Haha I jumped back on my original HT this weekend and also felt pretty bad lol. I was hoping I wouldnt feel too much difference but now the HT feels like an XC bike to me too, which, honestly, it isn't *that* far from. It's a trail bike basically, which was a bit more slack than others when released.

    Just like the HT2 is more of a real blend of a enduro bike, etc. They keep pushing toward the slacker side and we keep getting used to it (also maintained bike trails keep getting more demanding in my experience, theres more and more technical terrain with larger jumps, drops, etc.). And yes, it also goes up better for me. I'm still curious if its actually faster going up, but it definitely feels better and feels faster as soon as the terrain becomes a little demanding.
    That's why I switched from my HTLT to an MT. The capability is so much better. The bike park was a very different experience...much less sketchy. Even my 130mm hardtail has a 65 degree HTA which handles on flat tight trails just fine. I'm not saying everything needs to have a 65 degree head tube angle but I see no reason to have a 130mm+ bike with any steeper than 66 degrees.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    That's why I switched from my HTLT to an MT. The capability is so much better. The bike park was a very different experience...much less sketchy. Even my 130mm hardtail has a 65 degree HTA which handles on flat tight trails just fine. I'm not saying everything needs to have a 65 degree head tube angle but I see no reason to have a 130mm+ bike with any steeper than 66 degrees.
    Have you felt any downsides in going to MT from HTLT?
    Iím considering same and now the HT2 is confusing the issue.
    But HT2 really seems like same ďbig bikeĒ as MT but just 20mm less travel.
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    Review

    Iím a long time lurker but first time poster. I had a chance to take out the new Hightower on Friday and thought Iíd give my thoughts in case anyone is interested.

    I have an OG HT and it has been my favorite bike, so Iíve been looking forward to the new version for a while now. I ride in Santa Cruz and prefer tech, Iím not super rowdy but will do 4-5 ft drops and jump about 1.5-2 bike lengths.

    Im 5í10 and rode a large, position felt fine, it definitely had a firm platform for climbing, no pedal bob. I did notice the front end wanted to wonder a bit more than the OG, I run a 150 so same size fork. It also didnít feel as nimble going around corners, I got hung up on stuff I donít normally do.

    Descending I was a bit disappointed, a lot of that could be just needing to get used to the new geo, I only had the bike for 4 hours and would definitely want to set the cockpit up differently than stock. The front end felt floppy, almost like it was too slack and I found myself getting kicked off my lines pretty easily. I tried to keep weight over the front end but still couldnít find myself getting along well with the bike. I also have a v4 nomad for reference, that I love, so I am used to a slack front end.

    The bike seems to have lost the trail bike soul, it didnít feel as agile and flickable as my OGHT. Iím pretty bummed you canít run a coil on it as I think that would be an amazing combo, I get it to separate the MT from the HT but I think Santa Cruz should have made it coil compatible and let the customer decide, especially since the bike is so down hill focused now.

    The tan color looks pretty rad in my opinion, clearance in the rear looks fine for at least a 2.5 tire, Iíll attach some pics for reference. Overall I was a bit let down, when I demoed the OG and the Nomad I immediately felt I need to have this bike, for the HTv2 I didnít come away with that feeling. I felt the same way with the v3 Bronson, in all honesty the v3 Bronson and v2 HT feel pretty much the same, theyíre both great bikes but I personally didnít feel like I Ďneedí to have them.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hightower V2-1abf430d-b1e8-4b71-b29e-53f482755386.jpg  

    Hightower V2-dd416b0e-7274-471a-ad1c-27917e059c96.jpg  

    Hightower V2-a493eee8-22cd-4a8e-833e-5af71bddaf4a.jpg  

    Hightower V2-3e13fafd-13a5-4357-9624-f4548c9a03ff.jpg  


  132. #132
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    Anyone know if the bike is shipping with the newest reverb?

  133. #133
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    Does anyone else think the HT V2 feels just like the new Bronson? I've ridden the latest Bronson a few times and liked it but would be interested in the bigger wheels for a change. Can't wait to finally ride the new HT in two weeks.

    By the way, excellent first post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronxbomber252 View Post
    Still not useful for others since that middle position is different on every shock because where the knob stops on the open end is different on every shock.

    Lets say that one shock has 14 clicks from closed to open, and another has 16. They will both be at the actual full open at some point 14 or less, but have more clicks past full open. So, if you set the first shock say 1 click slower than the middle, it will be 6 clicks from full closed, but do the same with the second, and it will be 7 clicks from full closes and thus have different settings. The only way to state your settings in a way that means anything to anyone but you, is to state number of clicks from full closed.
    Here's what I am saying and how I initially set all my rebounds over many forks / shocks over many years. It doesn't matter if it has 22 clicks, 19 clicks, 10 clicks, etc... I initially set it in dead middle (11, 9-10, 5 clicks) so rebound is right in middle, then micro-adjust from there faster or slower by 1 click at a time.

    Again, I run my rebound a couple clicks slower then dead center. That should be universal enough. Its very nice for our chunky, choppy, old school Vermont trails that you can tackle at speed.
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  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCFord View Post
    Iím a long time lurker but first time poster. I had a chance to take out the new Hightower on Friday and thought Iíd give my thoughts in case anyone is interested.

    I have an OG HT and it has been my favorite bike, so Iíve been looking forward to the new version for a while now. I ride in Santa Cruz and prefer tech, Iím not super rowdy but will do 4-5 ft drops and jump about 1.5-2 bike lengths.

    Im 5í10 and rode a large, position felt fine, it definitely had a firm platform for climbing, no pedal bob. I did notice the front end wanted to wonder a bit more than the OG, I run a 150 so same size fork. It also didnít feel as nimble going around corners, I got hung up on stuff I donít normally do.

    Descending I was a bit disappointed, a lot of that could be just needing to get used to the new geo, I only had the bike for 4 hours and would definitely want to set the cockpit up differently than stock. The front end felt floppy, almost like it was too slack and I found myself getting kicked off my lines pretty easily. I tried to keep weight over the front end but still couldnít find myself getting along well with the bike. I also have a v4 nomad for reference, that I love, so I am used to a slack front end.

    The bike seems to have lost the trail bike soul, it didnít feel as agile and flickable as my OGHT. Iím pretty bummed you canít run a coil on it as I think that would be an amazing combo, I get it to separate the MT from the HT but I think Santa Cruz should have made it coil compatible and let the customer decide, especially since the bike is so down hill focused now.

    The tan color looks pretty rad in my opinion, clearance in the rear looks fine for at least a 2.5 tire, Iíll attach some pics for reference. Overall I was a bit let down, when I demoed the OG and the Nomad I immediately felt I need to have this bike, for the HTv2 I didnít come away with that feeling. I felt the same way with the v3 Bronson, in all honesty the v3 Bronson and v2 HT feel pretty much the same, theyíre both great bikes but I personally didnít feel like I Ďneedí to have them.
    Thanks for your perspective. I had the exact opposite experience my first ride on everything you described. None of us really "need" a new bike, as the OGHT was awesome (until something new and "better" comes a long - insert sarcasm).

    That said, for everyone thinking, its good to demo before dropping 5+k on a bike. Bodies, riding styles, and stock bike set-ups are all different, and a good demo on familiar trails to compare is a good thing!

    Again great first post. We need non-gushing opinions as well. I feel like we all drank the kool-aid (myself included)!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finius T Flubberbuster View Post
    Have you felt any downsides in going to MT from HTLT?
    Not really. Maybe in the tightest of tight flat turns where you can't lean the bike it's not as nimble. I could see how a less aggressive rider would feel more at home on the more old school geo.

  137. #137
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    Hightower V2

    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    Here's what I am saying and how I initially set all my rebounds over many forks / shocks over many years. It doesn't matter if it has 22 clicks, 19 clicks, 10 clicks, etc... I initially set it in dead middle (11, 9-10, 5 clicks) so rebound is right in middle, then micro-adjust from there faster or slower by 1 click at a time.

    Again, I run my rebound a couple clicks slower then dead center. That should be universal enough. Its very nice for our chunky, choppy, old school Vermont trails that you can tackle at speed.
    Thatís all well and good if it works for you, it just isnít repeatable or universal for anyone else because two of the exact same shock will have the same number of clicks between full closed and when the shock is full open, but most will have some clicks toward open beyond that point that donít do anything and that number will be different for every single shock even if they are the same make, model, and year. Someone who tries to repeat what you did will be starting at a different actual setting.

    So, if you are interested in giving other people a way to get to your recommended setting, you would need to, once you find it, turn the shock all the way to closed, counting each click, then turn it back to your preferred setting and tell people how many clicks from full closed it is. Or better yet, you clearly know the total number of clicks your specific shock had since you gave a number from full open and stated that you had started in the center. So you can simply subtract that from the total number of clicks your specific shock has and that is the number of clicks from full closed which anyone can use to get the same setting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Thanks for the review SDMTB'er!


    Has anyone sized "down" on the new Hightower coming from an OGHT or HTLT?
    Also interested in this. On an XL OGHT at the moment and considering downsizing to a L HTv2 (I'm 6'1 with long limbs)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmrocks View Post
    So there's really no way to put a real shock on this bike? Super disappointing. I would love this bike with a coil shock on it.
    Not being coil-compatible is a recommendation based on the the suspension design being too linear to work well with a coil. Not being X2-compatible is a matter of the air can being too big for the tunnel. Santa Cruz advises the exact same limitations for the Bronson, but in spite of that, I've seen folks running Bronsons with both X2s and coils. The X2 fit is supposed to be super tight, but it works for folks who've tried it. Could be size-dependent?

    Anyway, point being, give it time to see what folks are doing. There are always experimenters out there, and we may yet see that things aren't quite as cut and dry as what SCB advises. Besides, the Super Deluxe tune on the new HT is getting great reviews, and we also know the DPX2 fits aok, and that's a great shock too.

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    A little better color representation of the desert.
    The shock tunnel measures just a hair under 2.25" on a size Large.

    I feel like you should be able to get a coil to fit in there.
    I think only if the piggy back is too large, I can see it hitting on the upper link.

    The "official" drawing from fox shows 2.22" Diameter for the X2, so there's the slightest of chance you could possibly fit it with the slightest of clearance.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hightower V2-20190717_122640.jpg  

    Hightower V2-img_20190717_122403_245.jpg  


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    Hightower V2

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    Last edited by TheNatureBoy; 07-19-2019 at 11:13 AM.

  142. #142
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    Great review SCFord. Very honest and nice to see the comparison with your OGHT.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by accuracy View Post



    A little better color representation of the desert.
    The shock tunnel measures just a hair under 2.25" on a size Large.

    I feel like you should be able to get a coil to fit in there.
    I think only if the piggy back is too large, I can see it hitting on the upper link.

    The "official" drawing from fox shows 2.22" Diameter for the X2, so there's the slightest of chance you could possibly fit it with the slightest of clearance.
    Weight?

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  144. #144
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    I love the blue.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nismomike View Post
    Weight?

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Ill try to get it for you guys before before I start the build.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imagesforsegways View Post
    Anyone know if the bike is shipping with the newest reverb?
    i got mine July 3rd and it has the old reverb. Perhaps builds shipped later on will have the new one

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    wondering if push will find a way to get 11/6 to fit
    Highly unlikely: the HyperCo spring they use won't fit the shock tunnel.

    More evidence it won't happen: the lower-link Bronson has the same issue. It's been out for over a year and there's no fitment for an ELEVENSIX. On the other hand, the Megatower just came out and PUSH had it available within a month and a half.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedo View Post
    Thanks for your perspective. I had the exact opposite experience my first ride on everything you described. None of us really "need" a new bike, as the OGHT was awesome (until something new and "better" comes a long - insert sarcasm).

    That said, for everyone thinking, its good to demo before dropping 5+k on a bike. Bodies, riding styles, and stock bike set-ups are all different, and a good demo on familiar trails to compare is a good thing!

    Again great first post. We need non-gushing opinions as well. I feel like we all drank the kool-aid (myself included)!

    Just wanted to chime in here. I picked up the new HT earlier this week and took it for the first ride a couple of days ago. I would have to side with tedo on this. The bike felt absolutely perfect for me, it pedaled uphill nicely and man did it shine on the downhill. Super plush, tracked like an arrow (is that a saying lol) and for me is the all around perfect bike. I compared it closely with the Yeti SB130 and in my opinion the new HT is a superior bike in every way. However, keep in mind every person is different so some may love this bike, some may prefer the old one and others may like a Schwinn more At the end of the day just ride what you love and have a good time out there!

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    Uphill - STA is what got me about the ride. Superb


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    Quote Originally Posted by quickb5 View Post
    At the end of the day just ride what you love and have a good time out there!
    This perfectly sums it up! Ride what you love, the sb130 is still a bike Iíd like to demo, Iíll be curious to see how it compares.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCFord View Post
    This perfectly sums it up! Ride what you love, the sb130 is still a bike Iíd like to demo, Iíll be curious to see how it compares.
    The SB130 is a fantastic bike and I rode it back to back with the HT2. Did a lot of research. The SB130 felt more "racey" to me, a little less plush. Otherwise they felt incredibly close. At the end of the day it came down to the fact that you get a little more for your money with the HT2 and all the talk about the quality issues with the SB130/150 seems to be real. 3 of the guys that work at the shop where I bought my HT have SB130s and all 3 have had issues, 2 of them have been out of commission for weeks +. Two due to rear triangle issues (you'll find a ton of info on this in the forums) and the other due to a faulty shock.

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    Anyone throw 27.5's on this yet? I'm super interested in how it handle a more "agile" wheel size

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by borgomen View Post
    Anyone throw 27.5's on this yet? I'm super interested in how it handle a more "agile" wheel size
    Probably like a Bronson with a BB that's too low.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Probably like a Bronson with a BB that's too low.
    I don't think that it will be too low. From what I've found in height difference between 29 and 27.5+ is 7.93 ish mm , so we will say roughly about 8 mm depending on exact tire size.

    That would put you about 4mm lower than the low setting on the flip chip with 29" wheels.

    While the Bronson has the same bb height as the hightower, it still is 2mm higher than the 5010 in it's high setting , and after demoing the 5010 recently I felt like the low was pedal strike city here in Jersey (rock garden State ha) the high setting pretty much eliminated all the clearance issues I had . Mind you I am 6'3 220lbs riding an XL so my cranks are a touch closer anyway.

    My un-educated guess would be it would feel pretty great, but who knows with the extra travel if it will still get into trouble. I doubt Santa Cruz would list it as an option if it really were not , especially since the oght was listed as needing a different fork to accommodate the 27.5+ and this version does not

  155. #155
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    Hi,

    Having own different SC bike (hightower v1, bronson v2) and test rided several SC bikes (Nomad 4 several times, include bike park, Finale Ligure, Enduro Race in Zermatt, Bronson v3 in Finale Ligure & Home Trail) and now 5 days of hard riding the new Megatower (La Thuile, La Pila, Chatel Bike Park, home BP & trail) and currently riding/ testing the new hightower v2, I will soon post a complete comparaison of these bikes.

    Here a little home ride with the new HT2:

    https://youtu.be/ZIjTVZqellM

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj87 View Post
    Hi,

    Having own different SC bike (hightower v1, bronson v2) and test rided several SC bikes (Nomad 4 several times, include bike park, Finale Ligure, Enduro Race in Zermatt, Bronson v3 in Finale Ligure & Home Trail) and now 5 days of hard riding the new Megatower (La Thuile, La Pila, Chatel Bike Park, home BP & trail) and currently riding/ testing the new hightower v2, I will soon post a complete comparaison of these bikes.

    Here a little home ride with the new HT2:

    https://youtu.be/ZIjTVZqellM

    Looking forward to your comparison test!

    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
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  157. #157
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    Internal cable routing (Carbon): I got my R build HT2 last week knowing the SRAM brakes would not cut it for me. I have a new set of SLX to throw on. I got a couple rides in a the SRAMs did not disappoint. They super-suck! Worst I've used in years. Also, why an XXL bike came with a 180 front rotor is baffling. Anyhooz, I put no thought into how the hose routing might happen. I now see the frame access holes seem to require the hose ends be removed to fit through. Is this correct?

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by accuracy View Post
    Ill try to get it for you guys before before I start the build.
    Weight please....thank you

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj87 View Post
    Hi,

    Having own different SC bike (hightower v1, bronson v2) and test rided several SC bikes (Nomad 4 several times, include bike park, Finale Ligure, Enduro Race in Zermatt, Bronson v3 in Finale Ligure & Home Trail) and now 5 days of hard riding the new Megatower (La Thuile, La Pila, Chatel Bike Park, home BP & trail) and currently riding/ testing the new hightower v2, I will soon post a complete comparaison of these bikes.

    Here a little home ride with the new HT2:

    https://youtu.be/ZIjTVZqellM
    Nice trail - great video


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  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot2001 View Post
    Internal cable routing (Carbon): I got my R build HT2 last week knowing the SRAM brakes would not cut it for me. I have a new set of SLX to throw on. I got a couple rides in a the SRAMs did not disappoint. They super-suck! Worst I've used in years. Also, why an XXL bike came with a 180 front rotor is baffling. Anyhooz, I put no thought into how the hose routing might happen. I now see the frame access holes seem to require the hose ends be removed to fit through. Is this correct?

    You'll need to disconnect the hose from the lever, cut the end with the olive and barb off, thread the hose through, install new olive and barb, reconnect to brake lever, then finally bleed the brake.

    This tool can be quite helpful:

    Hightower V2-ptir11-1.jpg
    2020 SC Hightower

  161. #161
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    Actually might not need the Park tool kit. The molded carbon tubes should make it pretty painless.
    2020 SC Hightower

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    Actually might not need the Park tool kit. The molded carbon tubes should make it pretty painless.
    yep, no tools needed!

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickb5 View Post
    The SB130 is a fantastic bike and I rode it back to back with the HT2. Did a lot of research. The SB130 felt more "racey" to me, a little less plush. Otherwise they felt incredibly close. At the end of the day it came down to the fact that you get a little more for your money with the HT2 and all the talk about the quality issues with the SB130/150 seems to be real. 3 of the guys that work at the shop where I bought my HT have SB130s and all 3 have had issues, 2 of them have been out of commission for weeks +. Two due to rear triangle issues (you'll find a ton of info on this in the forums) and the other due to a faulty shock.
    Plus you don't have to deal with the SI rear suspension Kashima set up. It's basically another shock you need to take care of. You don't have this with SC.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzzy View Post
    Weight please....thank you
    my luggage scale showed at 6.34lbs. Large , no shock

  165. #165
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    Molded carbon tubes? My naivety is showing.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by accuracy View Post
    my luggage scale showed at 6.34lbs. Large , no shock
    That's heavy ! I would have expected that with the shock.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by accuracy View Post
    my luggage scale showed at 6.34lbs. Large , no shock
    Not too terrible. My XL HTLT was 5.45 lbs without shock. .89 lbs = 404 grams.

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  168. #168
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    I prefer how the V1 Hightower ran the rear brake line externally. Makes changing hydro brakes effortless. I also like how the OGHT did not run the rear dr cable through the swing arm. Makes it a little easier to work on your bike yourself and maybe a little less friction on the suspension motion.

  169. #169
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    SC puts cable guide tubes inside their frames which makes it easy to route cables through. You basically just push them until they pop out the other side. Frames without guide tubes can be tricky to thread a cable though.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot2001 View Post
    Molded carbon tubes? My naivety is showing.
    People have said the increase is 1.5-2lbs heavier, so less than 1 would be not bad at all!
    5010v3 @mikerides.mtb

  171. #171
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    Anyone fit a DVO topaz? Looks like it may be a tight fit under compression.

    And all the discussion about wheel weight....any negative of rotational weight is only under acceleration. When coasting or downhill the extra mass actually helps you maintain speed. I read a story about a rider who actually increased his wheels weight to set a climbing record. Totally counter intuitive but itís a trick sometimes used under certain circumstances. Point is....riding a bike is never reduced to simple math equations.
    edit....found this which says the difference is insignificant. So we can all relax about static vs rotational weight.
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  172. #172
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    Whilst I have no desire to throw another bucket of gasoline on the wheel inertia debate @Doug, Iíd suggest that article you linked provides a good analysis of road riding which is dissimilar to mountain biking. Mountain biking involves lower speeds and a lot more acceleration and deceleration, and there is of course the energy losses due to suspension action to consider.

    Iím not smart enough to suggest how these differences would affect those numbers, or if youíd get meaningful results with those test methods in a mountain biking context. Nor am I that curious that I need to know! The takeaway from that linked article for me is that lighter wheels often lack rigidity and strength, two factors that do effect the rider experience on mountain bikes. Interesting article nonetheless.

    Good to hear the frame weight increase with the HT2 is not as great as first feared too.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by stock.man View Post
    Good to hear the frame weight increase with the HT2 is not as great as first feared too.
    There were a handful of fear-mongering idiots posting incorrect weight numbers from the previous model year. One guy was saying that an S-build from 2018 was 28.5 lbs. If true (it wasn't), that would be miraculously 3 lbs lighter than my S-build from 2017.

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  175. #175
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    Not sure if it's 100% accurate but my bathroom scale shows 7.0 lbs with RS SDU (CC Medium frame)
    Hightower V2-sc_weight.jpg

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheDood View Post
    There were a handful of fear-mongering idiots posting incorrect weight numbers from the previous model year. One guy was saying that an S-build from 2018 was 28.5 lbs. If true (it wasn't), that would be miraculously 3 lbs lighter than my S-build from 2017.
    If by any chance you are talking about me I will remind you that I posted pictures of my 2019 not 2018 large frame with pedals and was on 30.8 lb. I posted the pictures on a Park Tool scale. My pedals are the Time MX 4. And the weights I posted were the weights on the Santa Cruz website. Idiot
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  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricTheDood View Post
    There were a handful of fear-mongering idiots posting incorrect weight numbers from the previous model year. One guy was saying that an S-build from 2018 was 28.5 lbs. If true (it wasn't), that would be miraculously 3 lbs lighter than my S-build from 2017.
    As one of those fear-mongering idiots who started this debate in the future hightower thread, the santa cruz website clearly stated that the 2019 hightower s build was 28.4 pounds while the santa cruz website says a 2020 hightower is 21.53 pounds. Even the jensonusa website shows 28.4 pounds for the 2019 S-build hightower. https://www.jensonusa.com/Santa-Cruz...-C-S-Bike-2019

    Even check out Biohazard74's photos at the top of this thread that show their 2019 S build as being 30.08 pounds with (their estimate) 1 pound pedals. Without pedals then you can roughly assume that their bike is 29.08 pounds for a size large. IDK what size santa cruz used for the measurements but its entirely plausible that a smaller bike (say a medium or small) weights in the mid-upper 28 pound range.

    I'm sorry that Santa Cruz lied about weights but until someone walks in and shows a 2019 s build and 2020 s build both in the same size on a scale, the facts say that we are correct. And if someone disproves us, then really that's Santa Cruz's fault for publishing false information.

    Also, the first year hightower (released 2016, I'm assuming as the 2017 model) came with all rockshox and I think shimano 1x11 and stuff so comparing a 2017 bike of an unknown build to the 2017 which comes with fox and sram gx isn't exactly apples-to-apples.

    EDIT: And I have ridden both the new HT and old one and decided to go for the new one, I liked the geo and the suspension although it was a bit slow on the flats with the 2.4 dhr2s. Not sure what the weight was, it was tolerable but the bike was definitely a bit more of a brick compared to a similarly-built 5010 that I jumped on.

  178. #178
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    Hightower V2

    Had my first ride today on my new X01 (non reserve) H2 today. About 15 miles of mild XC with some very light tech (Lake Hodges, San Diego).

    After spending the afternoon optimizing things (Swapped out the RaceFace wheels that came with the bike for my Light Bicycle 29mm ID wheels which had DHF 2.5/ DHR II 2.4 (WT), XTR pedals, Fork and Shock pressure set to 25% sag, changed out seat) here are my initial thoughts.

    1. This bike is QUIET. The chain or cables didn't rattle once. Nada. Zilch. The internal routing was definitely doing its job.

    2. The bike gives up nothing in the pedaling department over flat terrain compared to my OG HT

    3. The bike climbs better than my OG HT up steeper terrain. The need to slide forward on the seat is minimized due to the steep STA.

    4. The bike has this "planted and composed" feel over rocks. I found the square edge sensitivity to be exceptional while not giving up pedaling efficiency. Out of the saddle pedaling does result in some pedal bob and fork dive, but that is expected.

    5. Although there are a ton of adjustments on the fork and shock, I am not really sure what I would change at this point. Other than rebound which I adjusted a few clicks, everything just feels awesome. I don't feel the need to experiment with tokens, etc.

    6. The bike came in at almost exactly 31 pounds stock with plastic pedals. There is definitely more hardware to make the lower mounted shock work so I imagine that is where some of the slight increase in weight comes from. I haven't weighed it yet with the carbon rims (which also have DTSwiss 350 hubs). I would imagine it is in the high 29 lb range.

    7. The Code RSC brakes are surprisingly great! Between the lever throw and the pad engagement thumb wheel adjustment, you can pretty much dial them in to feel like XTs.

    8. It is hard to see the sag ring on the rear shock

    9. The Lyrick Ultimate takes more air than you would expect. I am 210 kitted and I had to jack the air up in the fork to 115 psi. I rode around 90 psi on my RS Pike on the OG HT.

    10. The bike came with 800mm bars which I had cut down to 780mm. The bike handles very neutral with neither under or over steer. The shorter fork offset along with the slacker fork makes a noticeable difference in front end traction.

    11. When that time comes when I will have to clean the lower linkage, I am not sure how to go about doing this. Hopefully there will be a video soon on that (OG Hightower, and my Blur are super simple). However, the position of the lower linkage seems to be better optimized to NOT pick up as much dirt and debris as the older style linkage. I also installed a rear fender to help minimize dirt and debris.

    12. The position of the lower shock does pick up dirt from the trail more than a top tube mounted shock despite the little shock guard. Time will tell to see if this is an issue or not with shock performance.

    13. The relatively little time I spent going downhill was very impressive. The bike feels extremely composed. I originally thought I wanted to immediately upgrade the fork to 160 but I am not sure that is needed. I definitely got the feeling that SC has hit it out of the park extending the HT's capability further towards the "Enduro / All Mountain" part of the riding spectrum. I found it very easy to find my balance point while standing up.

    14. The slacker head tube angle didn't seem to bother me at all on steep climbs.

    That's all I can think of for now - VERY impressed with this bike. I now have a 2017 OG CC X01 Hightower, Large, in great condition for sale. :-)






  179. #179
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    I weighed my 2018 S build without pedals but with a X01 cassette (1295), Specialized bottle cage and K-Edge garmin mount:

    29lbs 1oz (13.18kg)


    Hightower V2-img_6464.jpg

    Hightower V2-img_6465.jpg
    2020 SC Hightower v2
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  180. #180
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    I think Ericthedoods Hightower ate a cheeseburger before he weighed his.
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  181. #181
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    Weight nerds

    I mean is 1lb going to really change your ride?

    If itís 30.9 or 29 ??

    You wanna say a light me wheelset is noticeable on your legs - fine .

    But weighing frames and shocks is overboard.


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  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    Weight nerds

    I mean is 1lb going to really change your ride?

    If itís 30.9 or 29 ??

    You wanna say a light me wheelset is noticeable on your legs - fine .

    But weighing frames and shocks is overboard.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I'm no weight weenie like I've said before. But for what I ride and the lengths of my rides at times I dont want to push around a 33lb bike. I am happy with the weight of mine.. For those that mostly bomb downhill an extra 2-4 lbs isnt a huge deal and I understand that. But when you do a 25-50 mile ride believe me you will definitely feel those extra lbs. And agreed that where I would like to lose a little more weight from are my wheels. But those are coming in a few months.
    Ride

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNatureBoy View Post
    Weight nerds

    I mean is 1lb going to really change your ride?

    If itís 30.9 or 29 ??

    You wanna say a light me wheelset is noticeable on your legs - fine .

    But weighing frames and shocks is overboard.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I personally don't care - the added weight is more than offset by the better climbing of the steeper STA and the performance of the lower mounted shock. I just provided the weight for info for those that care about what a stock X01 complete build weighs.

  184. #184
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    Great info. Thanks.

  185. #185
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    the amount of people concerned about weight makes me think this maybe is not for me

  186. #186
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    I am a recovering weight weenie. I have the titanium skewers with hex fittings to prove it. My latest bike, Tallboy LTC started life around 27 pounds. Maybe even less. Itís now around 30 or 31. I really donít know.

    DVO suspension, industry 9 wheels, Maxxis dhr tires, hope brakes, and other ďheavyĒ upgrades.

    My fastest times came as the bike got heavier. Even uphill.

    Iím 195-200 geared up. A few pounds of bike hardly makes a difference. I for one donít notice a heavier bike when riding. I do notice the improved reliability, stiffness, and durability.

    The Hightower is a gravity oriented bike. I would much rather have 200g more frame for a more durable and stiff bike that will last for years.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I personally don't care - the added weight is more than offset by the better climbing of the steeper STA and the performance of the lower mounted shock. I just provided the weight for info for those that care about what a stock X01 complete build weighs.
    Right, and people need to keep in mind that the weight you posted is with plastic pedals which add 1-1.5 lbs. So your bike is around 29.5 lbs.

    I had the LBS weigh an XL carbon S build and it was right about 32.5 lbs with heavy bike shop pedals, so the actual weight was around 31-31.5 lbs.
    2016 Hightower
    2017 Fuse
    2018 Tallboy

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_futurist View Post
    the amount of people concerned about weight makes me think this maybe is not for me
    Eh just ride it for yourself and see, as others state the bike descends better than the previous one and also (apparently) climbs better too. The demo bike I rode was surprisingly agile and efficient when it needed to be. The bike is no weight-weenie bike for sure but its worth it.

    The more bikes I ride though, the more I realize that a 140mm 29er feels like a 140mm 29er while a 120mm 29er feels like a 120mm 29er, for example. Every bike has different geo and characteristics but overall the new hightower should be fairly comparable to other 140mm 29ers, maybe a pound heavier than some but if it is then there are certainly benefits to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hesher123 View Post
    I weighed my 2018 S build without pedals but with a X01 cassette (1295), Specialized bottle cage and K-Edge garmin mount:

    29lbs 1oz (13.18kg)
    Quote Originally Posted by SDMTB'er View Post
    I just provided the weight for info for those that care about what a stock X01 complete build weighs.
    Thanks for the weights the both of you, and the detailed feedback about the new bike, SDMTBR'er

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_futurist View Post
    the amount of people concerned about weight makes me think this maybe is not for me
    https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/


    Santa Cruz Hightower LT
    Santa Cruz Tallboy 4


  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike_futurist View Post
    the amount of people concerned about weight makes me think this maybe is not for me
    I say don't worry about the weight get the bike you want. a lbs or 2 is not a big deal really. just my 0.2cents

  191. #191
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    It seems like every upgrade I get for my bike makes it weigh more. Upgraded from a Reba to a Yari. Upgraded my original Specialized OEM wheels to hand built Velocity Blunts with Hope Pro4 hubs, ditched the Elixer 3 brakes for Saint/Zee, swapped from Time XC pedals to Time DH pedals, put a dropper post on, replaced XC tires with Exo casing tires, and I know it is a sin but I still run aluminum handlebars and stems.

    I can't tell you how much my HT weighs, nor do I care. The things is amazing to ride in every direction. This whole weight thing was started by the industry in the 90s telling people that lighter is better.... no manufacturer still adheres to this as they are more concerned with making the bikes stiffer and stronger. You will not feel one half of a pound of weight on the frame. It is in your head... all in your head.

    I am still waiting to run into one of these lower shocked SCs on the trail.... just a bunch of folks running the OGHT or TB around here. :-)

    Get back to posting pictures of your pretty bikes!!!
    2018 Santa Cruz Hightower CC
    2014 Trek Domane 4.0
    2015 Surly Karate Monkey Ops (commuter, gravel, fun))

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biohazard74 View Post
    I think Ericthedoods Hightower ate a cheeseburger before he weighed his.
    Yes and it's constipated.

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    It's all about watts spent and watts delivered to the ground.

    Lightweight is an easy but expensive gain. All else equal, a light bike is faster to climb than a heavier bike.

    But all else is never equal. Rolling resistance, traction, and body positioning are all a lot more important in MTB. The bike industry has really woken up to that in recent years, and you can see the focus is there instead of weight.

    Even with roadies, bikes are getting heavier with a focus on aero and rolling resistance. A lot of folks are trading in their 23mm tires for 26-28mm.

  194. #194
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    "But all else is never equal." I spent 2 hours on a new Bronson 27.5+ today followed by an hour on the latest 5010 27.5+. I rode the same trails with both bikes. Logic told me the 5010 would be faster since it had ample suspension for the technical trail I rode.
    It was lighter so why wouldn't it be?

    It wasn't faster. The 3 extra pounds on the Bronson made it feel more stable and the latest VPP suspension did seem to help it track better and it certainly climbed faster because it wasn't as "skittish" as the 5010.

    The current 5010 didn't feel much different then my own 5010 V1 even though the geometry was up to current standards. On the other hand, the latest Bronson felt much better then the V1 Bronson I rode when I choose my 5010.

    So, yeah, I was surprised and all else is never equal and all the complaints about the weight of the new Hightower probably are really being blown out of proportion.

    Now, if my shop can only get me a new Hightower to demo Ö.

  195. #195
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    CC XO1 HT 1 with RF ARC 30 rims, two DHR II WT 2.4 tires (HT 2 wheelset), OEM plastic pedals:



    CC XO1 HT 2 with Light Bicycle 29 Internal Width Rimís, DHF 2.5 / DHR II 2.4 WT tires, XTR pedals:



    Not like for like but I would say about a poundish difference in weight.

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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    There is a video of one of my ride upper in this thread.

    So, here the feedback from the different test ride i have done:

    I owned a Ripmo (sold just after the 2 test ride)

    Megatower 5 days of riding from enduro / AM to Bike park (la Thuile (IT), Ch‚tel bike park (FR) & home trail and bike park.
    Pedal very well for the suspension it has. Doesnít bob open (ok just a very little bit) if you stay sited. Very stable, but playful to manual or pop over obstacle. I overjumped all the jump I knew! More pop and stable than the ripmo! Perfect confidence in the down, but is more stable than agile. Itís not a tank, Itís like the bike was connected to my brain in trust mode and pilote mode, everything in perfect control.
    Comparing it to the nomad 4: pedal better (doesnt wallow like the n4), more composed. The nomad is more manúuvrable (but less stable) but hasnt the same confidence for me. Think freeride playful for the the N4 and enduro race but still fun for the MT. For ŗ long day in the saddle with climb and flat, i Will never hesitate and take the MT! The MT is very stable, but not in a Boring way for me. It has allowed me to try new things in more flat trail that I Will perhaps not try on HT2.

    The HT2 (home bike park and Xc + Am home tour): still playful and Poppy like the HT1 but a lot more confortable (everywhere!). I have overshooted all the local jump too! The suspension is firm but vers confortable!! ņ lot better than the HT1 or MT. With the MT you have to have speed to have it confortable, not with the HT2! I think the MT has a little the confort like the older model (suspension hang up against square edge, fast or slow) not the H2!
    In general, I find that the obstacles slowed me down with the MT if I wasnít very fast, and gave me speed when pumping with the HT2!

    For me itís the biggest difference betwin the 2 bikes! Lot more easier to gain or maintain normal speed with the HT2 vs the MT.

    The HT2 doesnt lost efficiency vs the HT1 appart from fire road for me. Itís still very efficient and playful. I have always love the do it all nature of the HT 1 but found it to turn like a Big Boat (position very high that doesnt allowed to be low in the bike to turn). The HT2 corners a lot better for me: better position and agility in the corner and remain a bike to do xc lap and enduro in a raw!

    The suspension of the HT2 is The best of the SC line for me, efficient but confortable and very activ. For me, I found the bronson 3 to be a little dead in the character (not so poppy, not so confortable), and the MT lack a bit of confort if you dont go very fast. I question myself: Will the MT have a lighter suspension tuning next year? Even when trying to huck to flat with the HT2, I never felt it bottoming hard or being dangerous. Wasnít just as confident as with the MT.

    Pedaling position in the climb: i prefered the MT (170 front! Flip in high mode) than the HT 2 in low! I found the MT front Wheel more stable and better staying on the ground! The MT feel in general longer in the position and slacker in the head angle than the HT2, for me more than the numbers in the paper suggest. The MT is for me a lot more stable than the the HT2. Not in a bad way, but the feeling is very different. Little bit like rally sport car (HT2) vs MT (car for road / circuit racing)

    I found the HT not so far of the old HT1 position but better (more in front), but enjoyed more the position of the MT!

    For forks, the Lyrik seem to be s little bit more confortable but sag deeper in itís travel. Will try it in 160 (the 1st 1cm is never visible!) and I found the bike a little bit too in front and low position.

    So:

    Priority of racing, park and enduro laps, and going up for boosting the down: Megatower for the win.

    Enjoying AM, enduro laps,more Xc loop and a bit of bike park, or you prefer to play with the trail better than going always full speed: Hightower 2.
    For the Berra bike park in Switzerland, with no big Jumps but technical mťdium jump and roots parts: the HT2 is easier and perfect. MT goes well to, but demand more energy to control and enjoy the ride.

    Searching betwin the 2: ibis ripmo?!
    For me, despite the Numbers, the Ripmo is a bit more stable When it get rowdy, but isnít as playful as the HT2 in general ride. HT2 pedal better for me, and is more confortable for AM ride.

    I have a HT 2 in command, but enjoying big Jumps and park ride, I Will certainly complete it with a MT next year!

    Sorry for my bad english, hope you understand all!

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    I noticed extreme pedal bob uphill standing .


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    Still lot better than the nomad if you pedal when stand up pedalling. Would not say extrem but like an enduro bike. The HT is better in this domain for sur

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    First impressions

    Coming off several years of Specialized 29ers including Cambers, Stumpjumpers, and Enduros. Decided to splurge on the HT2 AXS build. Here are some first impressions after a solid day at Demo in the Santa Cruz mountains.

    Total Ride: ~25miles / 4700ft climbing / 3 hours

    The HT2 feels incredibly stable and confidence inspiring. I instantly felt comfortable on the bike. It pedals very well (VPP of course). In fact, I just left the rear shock on 'open' the entire ride. Impressive! I really love the "set and forget" nature of this bike.

    For this area, I feel like the 150/140 set up is ideal. The newer geo definitely puts you in a more forward position that, while comfortable, will take a little getting used to. While coming down the flow trail, my hands were really feeling it. I set all suspension dials to the mid point. After this run down the flow trail I added two clicks of rebound compression and backed off 2 clicks of LSC. This made a big difference. Still dialing it in.

    While the flow trail is fun, it's actually kind of boring. I started my ride with that trail just to get comfortable with turning the new bike. I was amazed at how well it cornered and just how playful it felt. Since the bike feels so damn stable in techy sections, I was expecting it to feel really heavy and slow in the smoother flow-style traild... definitely not the case. It actually seems to get lighter and more nimble. Not actually (obviously), but it surprised me in this aspect.

    After the flow trail I did two laps on Braille (one of the best Bay Area trails IMHO). The HT2 was so great on this trail. Amazingly plush, tracks very well, and the pedal efficiency is awesome for the few punchy sections. The dual DHR combo also seems to work very well.

    All in all, it's a very impressive bike and I can't wait to ride it more.

    Hightower V2-img_20190728_084616.jpg
    Hightower V2-img_20190728_084630.jpg
    Hightower V2-img_20190728_084625.jpg

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