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  1. #1
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    2018 Nomad vs 2018 V10

    So I currently have a newer 5010 that I've been VERY impressed with. From my local Long Island trails (ie flat/flowy/fast) to Upstate NY, CT, VT, UT and CO it has handed it all.

    Having a background in BMX, then DH I do miss having a big bike and hitting Mountain Creek, Highland, etc.

    I have a brand new V10 frame and most of the components needed to build a full on DH bike. The newer Nomad is exactly what I was hoping it was going to be and it's making me wonder if I would be better off selling my V10 stuff and picking up a new Nomad. Whichever I decide to go with I would still keep my 5010.

    For modern bike parks what would be my best bet?

    V10 is obviously a full on DH bike and nothing else.

    Nomad seems to be a modern freerider bike and much more. I could hit bike parks and some local enduro type races as well, although my 5019 could probably handle local 'enduro' as well.

    My only reason NOT to go Nomad would be the possibility that it could be too close to my current 5010 (which I would keep). What I mean is that on some occasions I would have to debate on which bike to ride, with a V10 it would be an obvious choice between the two.

  2. #2
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    IMO the Nomad is meant for really tough trails that are accessed by pedaling. Really long uphill grinds, then rugged, long downs.

    If you don't have those types of trails, and pretty sure you don't, then stick to trail riding on the trail bike. The 5010.

    DH riding, via lift assist, is better on a real DH rig.

    All that said, I'm biased, as my local DH, Whiteface, is best ridden on a DH rig. I hit Killinton, and that's likely best in a DH rig, but has plenty the Nomad could handle with eas. Beyond that, most parks are getting buffed out, so the Nomad would be ok. Problem is, your still likely not going to use it much outside the park. So, if you are getting the lift, why not ride the bigger bike.

  3. #3
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    MIKER Have you ridden the N4 or is that a general nomad statement?

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriverB View Post
    MIKER Have you ridden the N4 or is that a general nomad statement?

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    Ditto, from what I'm seeing the V4 Nomad is much more DH than previous versions, leaning towards V10 territory vs straight 'enduro'.

    I guess my question leans towards asking if a V10 may be 'too much' for current bike parks unless you're looking at raceday DH speeds.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    ...Beyond that, most parks are getting buffed out, so the Nomad would be ok. Problem is, your still likely not going to use it much outside the park. So, if you are getting the lift, why not ride the bigger bike.
    You do make a very good point.

    I've been VERY impressed with my 5010 and have never really felt like I've needed more on the 'trails' I've ridden it on. Locally and on several trips.

    I'm wondering though if a V10 may be 'too much' for current bike parks.

  6. #6
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    I doubt it would be too much if you go huge and ride at Mach speed. But to your point the new Nomad 4 sounds like it may actually be more than capable in the park and a lot of DH type terrain. Probably a tough call without trying one out.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriverB View Post
    MIKER Have you ridden the N4 or is that a general nomad statement?

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    No such luck on testing an N4. General statement only.

    Would also add that I've been to Mt. Creek/Diablo a lot. I suspect an N4 would be great there. But better than a real DH rig? Maybe, but not by much.

    You'd still need thick rubber on the N4 for DH. Then regular tires for trail riding.

    I think that bike would be great with two wheelsets if you had access to... A relatively buff riding park. And, really long rough, trails. You'd have a good "one" bike.

    All the East coast trail riding I've seen, and even a lot out West, does not even come close to needing a Nomad. I've been told by outsiders our local trails could justify a Nomad, but I disagree. Being over biked on trail rides is a real drag, literally.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    No such luck on testing an N4. General statement only.

    Would also add that I've been to Mt. Creek/Diablo a lot. An N4 would be great there. But better than a real DH rig? Maybe, but not by much.

    You'd still need thick rubber on the N4 for DH. Then regular tires for trail riding.

    I think that bike would be great with two wheelsets if you had access to... A relatively buff riding park. And, really long rough, trails. You'd have a good "one" bike.

    All the East coast trail riding I've seen, and even a lot out West, does not even come close to needing a Nomad. I've been told by outsiders our local trails could justify a Nomad, but I disagree. Being over biked on trail rides is a real drag, literally.
    If I went with a Nomad V4 I would run a DH type tire, Stans Flow rims, 203mm brakes, SixC cranks, etc.

    I'll agree that you can get away with a much smaller bike than some are riding nowadays, many seem to over bike. Like I mentioned earlier, I've been VERY impressed with my 5010 locally and out West.

    Whichever I build, I would still keep my 5010 which would handle trail duty. This second bike will be for bike parks and the narliest of trails, if I ever even get to ride a 'trail' deserving of such a bike/that my 5010 couldn't handle.

  9. #9
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    If its only lift assist, you already have the V10, why not rock it? I ride a Nomad 4 all over, it is ridiculous how good the bike is. Trestle bike park is notoriously buff, but even their non groomed trails (downhill, mountain goat) are great on the Nomad 4. I dont really think it loses anything to a downhill bike there.

    Where it might, is when you are feeling out lines and experiencing shit the first time. Maybe its just me, but I feel bad beating the crap out of an $8400 bike. For Keystone bike park, I'd rather be on a full downhill machine.

    Which brings me back to the original point - you have a 5010. The Nomad 4 pedals nearly as well. Unless you want a burlier bike for local trails, why not have a downhill sled V10 if its gonna be lift use only (and you already have it).

    EDIT: I guess the only consideration - if you regularly travel West or North to bike parks, having the Nomad 4 would give you the most versatility if you want to ride the park one day and pedal a local trail another. Otherwise you'd be flying out two bikes.

  10. #10
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    I have a Nomad 3. I understand that the Nomad 4 is more DH orientated but I'll give my opinions regardless. I live in Vancouver and ride the North Shore and Whistler Bike Park quite often. I've ridden my Nomad in the park for the past few seasons and it's great. It can definitely handle everything in the park with no issues. I'm assuming a Nomad 4 would be even better. With that being said, I rented/demoed/borrowed DH bikes a few times this year and there's no comparison. A full on DH bike absolutely destroys the Nomad in the park. I don't know if I'm much faster on the DH bike (never timed) but the level of comfort and confidence isn't even close. On my Nomad, I'm tapped out after 5 laps in the park. On a DH bike, I can ride all day. The margin of error is just that much higher on a DH bike as well. As far as it being less playful, it's not something that I notice. Even blue runs are more fun on a DH bike than my Nomad in my opinion. Regardless, after demoing a few times this year, I just picked up a used V10.

    Now obviously this all applies because I live close to Whistler. I don't know what the parks are like in your part of the world. How much access do you have to shuttle riding?

  11. #11
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    And I'm of the other opinion

    Rode my N4 a whole lot in Whistler this summer, including the WBP and all the valley/alpine trails. I had a N3 before that , as well as a V10. Have sold both now.

    The N4 in "low" mode is easily as capable on the double-black tech trails in the WBP as my V10 was, but much more fun, nimble and poppy.

    On the other side of the spectrum, the N4 will out-pedal your 5010 on all but the smoothest trails. It also is excellent on the flatter, pedally trails. (way better on all accounts than my 11/6 N3 was)

    As well, it will climb superbly. I probably passed a dozen or more riders on shorter travel (275 and 29) bikes climbing up to the Sproat alpine on Into the Mystic (4000 feet plus, ultra-smooth climbing trail).

    If it was me, I'd go N4, sell your V10 frame and keep the 5010 for smooth/flowy/less intense and playful trails. But be warned, you may end up selling the 5010 anyway once you've spend time on the N4. It's very capable of being a "one-bike" quiver

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCJG View Post
    And I'm of the other opinion

    Rode my N4 a whole lot in Whistler this summer, including the WBP and all the valley/alpine trails. I had a N3 before that , as well as a V10. Have sold both now.

    The N4 in "low" mode is easily as capable on the double-black tech trails in the WBP as my V10 was, but much more fun, nimble and poppy.

    On the other side of the spectrum, the N4 will out-pedal your 5010 on all but the smoothest trails. It also is excellent on the flatter, pedally trails. (way better on all accounts than my 11/6 N3 was)

    As well, it will climb superbly. I probably passed a dozen or more riders on shorter travel (275 and 29) bikes climbing up to the Sproat alpine on Into the Mystic (4000 feet plus, ultra-smooth climbing trail).

    If it was me, I'd go N4, sell your V10 frame and keep the 5010 for smooth/flowy/less intense and playful trails. But be warned, you may end up selling the 5010 anyway once you've spend time on the N4. It's very capable of being a "one-bike" quiver
    I'd really like to try a N4 setup with a Fox 40 at 180 mm and proper DH casing tires in the park.

  13. #13
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    The only thing that makes the N4 more DH oriented than it's predecessor the N3 is the fact's it's got the v10 linkage. And that linkage/leverage curve is beneficial in pretty much all scenarios, from smoother XC trails to rough double black DH. Other than that leverage curve, it's the same bike with a bit longer reach, better seat angle, and just 5mm more travel. I really feel like SC missed the mark on the marketing of this one.

    FWIW, I have a 5010v2 with a X2 and a 150 36 on it as my trail bike, and a new N4, also with an X2. I have not had enough time on my N4 to really get it dialed in, but I will say it's better in ever respect than my old N3. The old N3 was my favorite bike I ever owned, and it had a 170 36 up front and Avy'd RC4 coil rear. While I do feel the N4 pedals and climbs REALLY well (def better than the N3), it's still doesn't hold a candle to the 5010 when you stand and really put the hammer down. The 5010 is like a rocket when you get on the gas or Michael Knight hitting the turbo boost button on KITT.

    the 5010 is insanely capable, but it's short wheelbase shows it's limits stability wise when you start going mach chicken or picking crazy lines.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    The only thing that makes the N4 more DH oriented than it's predecessor the N3 is the fact's it's got the v10 linkage. And that linkage/leverage curve is beneficial in pretty much all scenarios, from smoother XC trails to rough double black DH. Other than that leverage curve, it's the same bike with a bit longer reach, better seat angle, and just 5mm more travel. I really feel like SC missed the mark on the marketing of this one.

    FWIW, I have a 5010v2 with a X2 and a 150 36 on it as my trail bike, and a new N4, also with an X2. I have not had enough time on my N4 to really get it dialed in, but I will say it's better in ever respect than my old N3. The old N3 was my favorite bike I ever owned, and it had a 170 36 up front and Avy'd RC4 coil rear. While I do feel the N4 pedals and climbs REALLY well (def better than the N3), it's still doesn't hold a candle to the 5010 when you stand and really put the hammer down. The 5010 is like a rocket when you get on the gas or Michael Knight hitting the turbo boost button on KITT.

    the 5010 is insanely capable, but it's short wheelbase shows it's limits stability wise when you start going mach chicken or picking crazy lines.
    I've been thinking about this too and how the colors of the N4 and kind of dull and came to the conclusion that they did it on purpose.
    Reading the comments of everyone who bought or who have rode the N4 it seems the new linkage (a la V10) provides a massive overall improvement over the "old" ones, so if they had made a big marketing campaign raving about the new linkage and how much it improves the riding in general and put out N4 frames with more appealing/flashy colos, that would probably cause a bit hit on the selling numbers of all the other non new linkage SC bikes. Many would probably hold and wait for the next generation hoping all bikes would have the new style linkage. Maybe i'm wrong and this is all rubbish (lol), but it has crossed my mind more than once.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    IMO the Nomad is meant for really tough trails that are accessed by pedaling. Really long uphill grinds, then rugged, long downs.

    If you don't have those types of trails, and pretty sure you don't, then stick to trail riding on the trail bike. The 5010.

    DH riding, via lift assist, is better on a real DH rig.

    All that said, I'm biased, as my local DH, Whiteface, is best ridden on a DH rig. I hit Killinton, and that's likely best in a DH rig, but has plenty the Nomad could handle with eas. Beyond that, most parks are getting buffed out, so the Nomad would be ok. Problem is, your still likely not going to use it much outside the park. So, if you are getting the lift, why not ride the bigger bike.
    Disagree. The Nomad is a great quiver killer bike. If I had one bike to ride XC trails, "trail rides", and DH, it's a long travel 29 or 27.5.
    Denver, CO

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BTTR View Post
    I've been thinking about this too and how the colors of the N4 and kind of dull and came to the conclusion that they did it on purpose.
    Reading the comments of everyone who bought or who have rode the N4 it seems the new linkage (a la V10) provides a massive overall improvement over the "old" ones, so if they had made a big marketing campaign raving about the new linkage and how much it improves the riding in general and put out N4 frames with more appealing/flashy colos, that would probably cause a bit hit on the selling numbers of all the other non new linkage SC bikes. Many would probably hold and wait for the next generation hoping all bikes would have the new style linkage. Maybe i'm wrong and this is all rubbish (lol), but it has crossed my mind more than once.
    Quite possible, and/or they didn't want to take away from the Hightower LT sales.

    But I also haven't put much thought into what it would take to put that new v10 linkage in a trail bike like say a Bronson or 5010, or if from a weight standpoint it'd even be feasible. Hell SC could feel that linkage is better suited for enduro/freeride/dh style bikes and keep the VPP3 on the shorter travel bikes. Who knows.

    I do know that linkage on a short travel rig would be about the only thing that would get me interested in selling my 5010.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Quite possible, and/or they didn't want to take away from the Hightower LT sales.

    But I also haven't put much thought into what it would take to put that new v10 linkage in a trail bike like say a Bronson or 5010, or if from a weight standpoint it'd even be feasible. Hell SC could feel that linkage is better suited for enduro/freeride/dh style bikes and keep the VPP3 on the shorter travel bikes. Who knows.

    I do know that linkage on a short travel rig would be about the only thing that would get me interested in selling my 5010.
    The challenge for Santa Cruz will be engineering a light enough frame to accommodate the stresses the new through-frame shock and linkage design put on the seat and down tube.

    People who ride short-travel bikes can often get hung up on frame and complete build weights at the expense of real-world riding performance, so that will be the other challenge for Santa Cruz. That extra 1/3 to 1/2 pound or so of carbon that may be required on the seat/down tube to accommodate the re-design may be a deal breaker for some, regardless of performance enhancement.

    i predict you'll see this design on the new long travel 29er when it finally comes out. Not sure about the existing shorter travel bikes but boy would that rock if they can pull it off!
    Last edited by SCJG; 10-01-2017 at 06:51 PM.

  18. #18
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    Yup, that all occurred to me as well We'll see I guess. 5010 and Bronson aren't due for an update until next year I think? This is the 3rd year of current models?
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  19. #19
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    Whats your setup on the N4?

    Quote Originally Posted by SCJG View Post
    And I'm of the other opinion

    Rode my N4 a whole lot in Whistler this summer, including the WBP and all the valley/alpine trails. I had a N3 before that , as well as a V10. Have sold both now.

    The N4 in "low" mode is easily as capable on the double-black tech trails in the WBP as my V10 was, but much more fun, nimble and poppy.

    On the other side of the spectrum, the N4 will out-pedal your 5010 on all but the smoothest trails. It also is excellent on the flatter, pedally trails. (way better on all accounts than my 11/6 N3 was)

    As well, it will climb superbly. I probably passed a dozen or more riders on shorter travel (275 and 29) bikes climbing up to the Sproat alpine on Into the Mystic (4000 feet plus, ultra-smooth climbing trail).

    If it was me, I'd go N4, sell your V10 frame and keep the 5010 for smooth/flowy/less intense and playful trails. But be warned, you may end up selling the 5010 anyway once you've spend time on the N4. It's very capable of being a "one-bike" quiver

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    Stock, coil option. Except I went with Fox 170 RC2 instead of the Lyric.

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