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  1. #2801
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    Timberjack Thread-bike.jpgTimberjack Thread-bike-2.jpg
    Not sure why sideways

  2. #2802
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    Same trail, less crash

    Less than a mile back to my front door. Ride to the trailhead was less than 2 miles, mostly flat. Whole ride vid uploading, but it's almost an hour long. Gonna take all day to upload.

    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

    Climbing ain't so bad. - 2019

  3. #2803
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    The new RockShox Zeb fork is out! Kind of interesting how manufacturers are slowly shifting toward 38mm forks these days.

    I still like my 35mm Pike though! Do any of you plan to run a 38mm fork on your TJ?

    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  4. #2804
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    38mm fork would be interesting but i do not know of anyone running 160mm of travel as that is the minimum i believe they can be switched to. I guess it would be a fork for the bigger guys that really push the limits of the tj

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    2019 salsa timberjack

  5. #2805
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    Quote Originally Posted by ral1121 View Post
    38mm fork would be interesting but i do not know of anyone running 160mm of travel as that is the minimum i believe they can be switched to. I guess it would be a fork for the bigger guys that really push the limits of the tj

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    Yeah I think on the low side it's 150mm. I know there are some people running larger forks on hardtails. Never know if someone here is doing it too
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  6. #2806
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    I mean... I think 541 (130mm fox 34 is 541) is their maximum a2c adding another 30-40mm of travel would blow up the geo + void the warranty really badly (which maybe doesnt matter to you... but who knows how safe it would be, the forces it takes to test the stiffness of a fox38 at 150 or 160 travel are... alot).

    I doubt even a fox36 would be advisable for a TJ let alone a fox 38. Extra Short reach, really high bb, slack STA would all be problems as well.

    Anyway I think you can take a pike up to 150 if you really wanted to.

  7. #2807
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelandk2 View Post
    I mean... I think 541 (130mm fox 34 is 541) is their maximum a2c adding another 30-40mm of travel would blow up the geo + void the warranty really badly (which maybe doesnt matter to you... but who knows how safe it would be, the forces it takes to test the stiffness of a fox38 at 150 or 160 travel are... alot).

    I doubt even a fox36 would be advisable for a TJ let alone a fox 38. Extra Short reach, really high bb, slack STA would all be problems as well.

    Anyway I think you can take a pike up to 150 if you really wanted to.
    Yeah I don't expect people to install a maxed out travel fork on a TJ. I figure some do run 150mm on their TJ so it makes me wonder how a burly 38mm fork would feel on a hardtail.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  8. #2808
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    I personally run a 36 at 140mm. It is a bomber z1 though so basically a fox rhythem 36. You can actually get the bomber z1 in 130mm travel if you want

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    2019 salsa timberjack

  9. #2809
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    Quote Originally Posted by ral1121 View Post
    I personally run a 36 at 140mm. It is a bomber z1 though so basically a fox rhythem 36. You can actually get the bomber z1 in 130mm travel if you want

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    Hmm thats cool, didnt know that .

  10. #2810
    ilmfat
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    For those with surplus time and high tolerance for low production value:

    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

    Climbing ain't so bad. - 2019

  11. #2811
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelandk2 View Post
    Hmm thats cool, didnt know that .
    Regular 36 is able to be changed to 130mm travel too. You can't buy one configured that way, but a new 130mm air shft is available aftermarket from Fox. They ride great
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
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  12. #2812
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  13. #2813
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    After a Honzo and Sir 9 demo, I am happy to report to returning to my awesome Timberjack!
    IMG_4929 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_4938 by driverfound337, on Flickr
    IMG_4939 by driverfound337, on Flickr

  14. #2814
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    Tell us more on the particulars of your decision? I am looking at a lot of different hardtails right now.

  15. #2815
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    The steel Honzo was awesome to ride, it climbed well, descended well, it was just a pig in weight which could be changed with ligther components. The heaviness of both bikes stopped it from beaing playful. That is the only complaint. I only considered them because I am SS mandatory. I wish I could ride a chameleon or Fuse but no demos. I also find my riding style doesnt require slacker or longer frames from my TJ.

  16. #2816
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    Yep, aluminum singlespeeds are lively! Thanks for the report.

  17. #2817
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    My echo chamber is comfortable.

    Went across town to the east hills. Man am I spoiled on the west side. And I see why the Rangers get dropped so quick. I didn't realize we don't face much loose stuff on our usual routes. Having ventured out, I can say we have "scatterings of a bit of gravel". Satterfield Bike Trails are moderately steep, and the top gets loose. Like, "3 types of gravel/rock" loose. Me and the younger Henchlady both had issues. We both rolled Rangers. Last weekend's camping trip we didn't see much singletrack, and what we did was either grass or loam. Sure there was some loose stuff, but it was either flat or on jeep roads with a hardpack line available. Rangers roll forever, and work fine for 90% of my usual riding. But it turns out my riding ain't all that usual. Ima put my Rekons on the front of the Minion's Jr Jack to give her a bit more bite. And since the Rangers are....Rangers, I need a better mountain tire. Something I can take to new places and not wish I'd brought more tire. And because of you fine folks, Ima get some Coronados. Which is nice, since they come in Tan and I'm a bling whore. Thanks for sharing your experiences guys. Ima burn up the Rangers on the Training Tuxedo*, which'll be my 34/13 SS for bike path riding.

    *coming soon
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  18. #2818
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    I am surprised the SIR9 was heavier than the Timberjack; I though Niner had them at <30 lb builds.
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  19. #2819
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    Might depend on the star build? I would think 2-star would be heavier than 4-star build.

  20. #2820
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat View Post
    Went across town to the east hills. Man am I spoiled on the west side. And I see why the Rangers get dropped so quick. I didn't realize we don't face much loose stuff on our usual routes. Having ventured out, I can say we have "scatterings of a bit of gravel". Satterfield Bike Trails are moderately steep, and the top gets loose. Like, "3 types of gravel/rock" loose. Me and the younger Henchlady both had issues. We both rolled Rangers. Last weekend's camping trip we didn't see much singletrack, and what we did was either grass or loam. Sure there was some loose stuff, but it was either flat or on jeep roads with a hardpack line available. Rangers roll forever, and work fine for 90% of my usual riding. But it turns out my riding ain't all that usual. Ima put my Rekons on the front of the Minion's Jr Jack to give her a bit more bite. And since the Rangers are....Rangers, I need a better mountain tire. Something I can take to new places and not wish I'd brought more tire. And because of you fine folks, Ima get some Coronados. Which is nice, since they come in Tan and I'm a bling whore. Thanks for sharing your experiences guys. Ima burn up the Rangers on the Training Tuxedo*, which'll be my 34/13 SS for bike path riding.

    *coming soon
    The Ranger could be a decent back tire if WTB had a midweight casing. The Light has sidewalls too weak and thin and the Tough is just too heavy for an xc tire. I emailed them asking if there was plans for a light /slashguard plus ranger. My 2.8 weighs 1060 grams, and it's nearly all casing. I won't run a ranger on the front.

  21. #2821
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    My wish for the next iteration TJ frame

    External cable routing except for the dropper cable.

    157 super boost spacing with the ability to run alternator plates to 148, 142, and ss.

    Tire clearance for 29x3.25 & 27.5X3.8

    73mm bb with 5mm spacers to convert to 83mm bb. Maybe even a proprietary bearing cup that spaces out 5mm on each side.

    Slightly longer reach, 15-25mm more.

    Lastly and most importantly, made anywhere but China.

  22. #2822
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwcn View Post
    External cable routing except for the dropper cable.

    157 super boost spacing with the ability to run alternator plates to 148, 142, and ss.

    Tire clearance for 29x3.25 & 27.5X3.8

    73mm bb with 5mm spacers to convert to 83mm bb. Maybe even a proprietary bearing cup that spaces out 5mm on each side.

    Slightly longer reach, 15-25mm more.

    Lastly and most importantly, made anywhere but China.

    only things on your list that I think have a chance, superboost spacing with the ability to reduce so whatever spacing you desire, and longer reach.

    plus/fat tires are struggling in the market to begin with, I doubt they will make adding that level of clearance a priority.

    my guess is longer reach, steeper seat tube angle, probably more clearance for bigger droppers and the ability to run superboost.

  23. #2823
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankS29 View Post
    only things on your list that I think have a chance, superboost spacing with the ability to reduce so whatever spacing you desire, and longer reach.

    plus/fat tires are struggling in the market to begin with, I doubt they will make adding that level of clearance a priority.

    my guess is longer reach, steeper seat tube angle, probably more clearance for bigger droppers and the ability to run superboost.
    I donít see the point of superboost spacing without more tire clearance.

  24. #2824
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwcn View Post
    I donít see the point of superboost spacing without more tire clearance.
    Just pointing out that larger than a 29x2.6Ē tire does not seem to be a priority for the industry. The Salsa Horsethief went superboost and only clears 29x2.6Ē.

  25. #2825
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDTransplant View Post
    I am surprised the SIR9 was heavier than the Timberjack; I though Niner had them at <30 lb builds.
    I built up my TJ rigid SS lightens it a bunch

  26. #2826
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    Anyone have any problems with their thru axle breaking? This is the 2nd time this has happened to me. I don't remember how the first one broke, but yesterday it was taking a small jump to flat.

    Timberjack Thread-108021537_10105590067986084_5718593570460179326_o.jpg

  27. #2827
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    Quote Originally Posted by wakeboarderdave View Post
    Anyone have any problems with their thru axle breaking? This is the 2nd time this has happened to me. I don't remember how the first one broke, but yesterday it was taking a small jump to flat.


    Negative... don't think i've seen a thru axle break ever. Is it the salsa branded one on the newer model?

    I would make sure the rear dropout sliders are aligned to eachother properly. My bikeshop changed the rear TA to a rockshox maxle ultimate when I changed the bike to boost, haven't had any problems with it
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
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  28. #2828
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    My 2017 TJ:



    Changes:
    * KS Lev dropper
    * RS Pike 130mm - used from pinkbike
    * GX Eagle Crankset - wanted 165mm and the Praxis BB kept clicking

    I'm still liking the bike. Brakes are the next thing I would like to update. Currently looking at the Magura MT Trails others have posted. Also have a set of Teravail Coronados I need to put on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Timberjack Thread-img_20200719_135414_50.jpg  


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    Finally able to post a pic of my TJ. Still waiting on the carbon wheels 27.5+ wheels with orange hope pro 4 hubs and skinwall maxxis rekon 27.5x2.8 tires in the mail.

    I've upgraded just about everything.
    - fox float factory 34 130mm
    - pnw bachelor 150mm dropper with wolftooth lever
    - converted to true boost through axle
    - synchros Silverton 29's
    - eagle xx1 derailleur, cassette, shifter
    - slx m7100 2 piston brakes
    - oneup carbon 35mm bars
    - raceface aeffect stem
    - raceface chester pedals
    - odi troy lee designs grips

    Timberjack Thread-20200718_165219.jpg

  30. #2830
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    Timberjack Thread-img_20200719_072421469.jpg

  31. #2831
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    Quote Originally Posted by wakeboarderdave View Post
    Anyone have any problems with their thru axle breaking? This is the 2nd time this has happened to me. I don't remember how the first one broke, but yesterday it was taking a small jump to flat.

    I broke the rear axle on my 2018 TJ, but it was on the other end, and I wasn't riding the bike when it happened. On mine, the head broke off of the axle when I went to take the rear wheel off the bike. My axle had the 6mm hex head on it though.

    If you've broke two of them now, and your rear wheel is not on crooked, I'd look into buying an axle from another brand.

  32. #2832
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    Quick question everyone . . I have a 2019 Timberjack Deore . . Does anyone happen to know if the rims/tires are tubeless ready? From what I remember the bike shop telling the rims are tubeless ready but tires are not and now I'm getting the itch to upgrade and need to know what to buy . . Thanks in advance everyone and thanks for all the great reviews of the Timberjack! You guys made up my mind to get this bike for me!

  33. #2833
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    Quick question everyone . . I have a 2019 Timberjack Deore . . Does anyone happen to know if the rims/tires are tubeless ready? From what I remember the bike shop telling the rims are tubeless ready but tires are not and now I'm getting the itch to upgrade and need to know what to buy . . Thanks in advance everyone and thanks for all the great reviews of the Timberjack! You guys made up my mind to get this bike for me!
    The rims are tubeless ready. You still have to tape the rims though. The tires are not tubeless tires though so you will need new tires. So you need tubeless rim tape, tubeless stems, and new tires

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  34. #2834
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    Quick question everyone . . I have a 2019 Timberjack Deore . . Does anyone happen to know if the rims/tires are tubeless ready? From what I remember the bike shop telling the rims are tubeless ready but tires are not and now I'm getting the itch to upgrade and need to know what to buy . . Thanks in advance everyone and thanks for all the great reviews of the Timberjack! You guys made up my mind to get this bike for me!
    Welcome aboard the Timberjack train!
    Rims are tubeless compatible but you will need a valve stem and also ensure the rims are taped.
    The tires are the Comp model which isn't officially tubeless, but some have had success running them tubeless.

  35. #2835
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    Thanks for the quick replies guys . . Can anyone recommend some tires? What's the best option and what would shave some weight off the bike?

  36. #2836
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    I've heard of the Thru Axles stripping, but not seen any broken ones until now.

    Re: Tires. Depends on your riding style and terrain. Maxxis Rekons give me more grip than I use in 99% of my riding and roll slower than I'd prefer. Eh Lines get the vote from my wife and older HenchLady. They did fine where me and the younger had issues with our Rangers. Rangers roll for days, though. But so do EhLines and even Rekons roll pretty good if you pump em a bit stiff. Gotta define your priorites.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

    Climbing ain't so bad. - 2019

  37. #2837
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    Thanks for the quick replies guys . . Can anyone recommend some tires? What's the best option and what would shave some weight off the bike?
    Tires is really personal preference and terrain and style of riding. I personally run dhr II/ dhf combo because of my terrain of rocky technical terrain. I need tires with strong side walls

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  38. #2838
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    Quote Originally Posted by ral1121 View Post
    Tires is really personal preference and terrain and style of riding. I personally run dhr II/ dhf combo because of my terrain of rocky technical terrain. I need tires with strong side walls

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    Hard for me to even say yet cause I'm still new to all this . . I mainly ride the streets with my kids but I've been going to a bunch of different trails here in NJ once a week . . I guess I will have to do more research.

  39. #2839
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    Hop into the local forum and see what peeps are running on which trails.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

    Climbing ain't so bad. - 2019

  40. #2840
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    Thanks for the quick replies guys . . Can anyone recommend some tires? What's the best option and what would shave some weight off the bike?
    Check out Universalcycles for some great deals on plus tires.

  41. #2841
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    Hard for me to even say yet cause I'm still new to all this . . I mainly ride the streets with my kids but I've been going to a bunch of different trails here in NJ once a week . . I guess I will have to do more research.
    do you have the 27.5+ version or the 29" version?

    if its 27.5+, the maxxis rekon + is a good option. it says 2.8" wide, but it's actually skinnier than that. I am using Teravail Coronado 3.0" tires for paved bike paths and singletrack. They work great, and measure a true 3"

    super chunky tires like maxxis minions might not be as great on paved paths, but it's just going to be more rolling resistance. No reason you can't ride a knobby tire on pavement if that's what you like.

    tubeless tires are typically heavier than non-tubeless because the rubber is supposed to be air tight. So you probably won't loose any weight this way
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
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  42. #2842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    do you have the 27.5+ version or the 29" version?

    if its 27.5+, the maxxis rekon + is a good option. it says 2.8" wide, but it's actually skinnier than that. I am using Teravail Coronado 3.0" tires for paved bike paths and singletrack. They work great, and measure a true 3"

    super chunky tires like maxxis minions might not be as great on paved paths, but it's just going to be more rolling resistance. No reason you can't ride a knobby tire on pavement if that's what you like.

    tubeless tires are typically heavier than non-tubeless because the rubber is supposed to be air tight. So you probably won't loose any weight this way
    I have the 27.5+ and I have heard good this about the rekons . . I thought I heard that the tubeless setup saves weight but I guess I heard wrong, either way doesn't matter to much since I'm a beginner.

  43. #2843
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    I'm running the rekons, 29er, 2.8 front 2.6 rear, plenty of clearance with the dropouts pretty much centered. Very happy with the tire, wish they shed mud a little better, but they have plenty of traction.
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  44. #2844
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    Thanks for the quick replies guys . . Can anyone recommend some tires? What's the best option and what would shave some weight off the bike?
    I put 27.5 x 2.8" Rekons on front and back. I love them. They went tubeless with a floor pump.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Timberjack Thread-106368859_10101422743145243_3350405564749922985_o.jpg  

    Salsa Timberjack GX (2018)

  45. #2845
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    I'm running the rekons, 29er, 2.8 front 2.6 rear, plenty of clearance with the dropouts pretty much centered. Very happy with the tire, wish they shed mud a little better, but they have plenty of traction.
    What is the reason for running two different sizes like that? Lighter weight tire in the back for easier pedaling?

  46. #2846
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC26 View Post
    What is the reason for running two different sizes like that? Lighter weight tire in the back for easier pedaling?
    Because it would be a tight fit with 2.8s in the rear. The frame isn't designed for 29+ but can do it and I enjoy never having a pedal strike with all the rocks and roots here
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  47. #2847
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    Just finished converting from 29 to 27.5+. Really like the 27.5+ climbs better and the speed you may lose is no big deal to me. Had to change the drop outs but very easy , biggest thing is waiting on parts. Went with Maxxis Rekon 2.8 , in my area they seem great so far.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Timberjack Thread-f025449a-cb68-43ce-82e0-a7d82a567cc5.jpg  


  48. #2848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed7842 View Post
    Just finished converting from 29 to 27.5+. Really like the 27.5+ climbs better and the speed you may lose is no big deal to me. Had to change the drop outs but very easy , biggest thing is waiting on parts. Went with Maxxis Rekon 2.8 , in my area they seem great so far.
    My TJ is 29 (bought it used) I like it a lot but I won't buy another 29er. I am not going to change this one out because I am fortunate enough to also have a 27.5+ bike and a 26+ bike. I have test ridden several bikes in 29 and 27.5 back to back and for me 27.5 is the sweet spot.

  49. #2849
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    Thinking about joining the TJ gang...

    Found a used 2019 TJ Deore for $800ish and I am tempted to jump on it.
    I am currently riding a slightly modded Nishiki Colorado Comp 27.5+, but I am itching for something better. The bike is great for what it is and how expensive it was (dirt cheap in pre-COVID used market, 40% retail or so), but the lack of a taper headset + the super-heavy coil XCM 32 fork + Boost wheel has virtually no upgrade options available anymore. The geo is not bad at all, but the top-tube is too high and I doubt I could use even a 100mm (27.2) dropper (stock post assembly will go lower than the min extension of ext-activated dropper posts).

    My thoughts: the TJ Deore is offering the same gear 11-42T range with 1x less cog, unfortunately is also 135mm QR (but upgradable to 12x148 if need-be), but past that has a basic air fork, a decent dropper post, wider rims etc. Quite importantly it is much lighter...I will be getting a L, but the MD is advertised at ~30lbs, when my 20" L Colorado Comp is 37lbs right now.

    It is an all-around upgrade, I am just worried that I should wait for a better speced model...and perhaps never get it with the current market. If I was buying new, I would probably look into a new TJ, the Specialized Fuse, maybe a San Marin Quentin 2.

    Is the $800 a fair price if in really good condition? Looks like it wasn't ridden much, still stock tires with little wear.

  50. #2850
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtolios View Post
    Found a used 2019 TJ Deore for $800ish and I am tempted to jump on it.
    I am currently riding a slightly modded Nishiki Colorado Comp 27.5+, but I am itching for something better. The bike is great for what it is and how expensive it was (dirt cheap in pre-COVID used market, 40% retail or so), but the lack of a taper headset + the super-heavy coil XCM 32 fork + Boost wheel has virtually no upgrade options available anymore. The geo is not bad at all, but the top-tube is too high and I doubt I could use even a 100mm (27.2) dropper (stock post assembly will go lower than the min extension of ext-activated dropper posts).

    My thoughts: the TJ Deore is offering the same gear 11-42T range with 1x less cog, unfortunately is also 135mm QR (but upgradable to 12x148 if need-be), but past that has a basic air fork, a decent dropper post, wider rims etc. Quite importantly it is much lighter...I will be getting a L, but the MD is advertised at ~30lbs, when my 20" L Colorado Comp is 37lbs right now.

    It is an all-around upgrade, I am just worried that I should wait for a better speced model...and perhaps never get it with the current market. If I was buying new, I would probably look into a new TJ, the Specialized Fuse, maybe a San Marin Quentin 2.

    Is the $800 a fair price if in really good condition? Looks like it wasn't ridden much, still stock tires with little wear.
    The TJ is a great all round bike. I love the fact it can take on just about any role without any issues. Plus the alternator dropout system is just plain out great to have. It's hard to say whether that bike is worth $800. Only you can make that determination. Do you have any photos or a link to the bike for sale?
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  51. #2851
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    Sold already to someone else, but for sake of arguement: 2019 Salsa timberjack deore https://offerup.co/uqZMZOILo8

  52. #2852
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    I have this mysterious tap noise that's driving me crazy. Originally I thought it was the dropper post. When I flexed the post side to side, I was able to duplicate the annoying tap sound. I fixed it by slightly raising the dropper post up and then tightening it down the clamp again. The clicking noise stopped when I flexed the saddle. When I am on the bike, I can still hear it!

    I've already cleaned the dirt out of my bottom bracket and crank. I also installed some wire loom on the dropper post cable housing thinking that was the culprit. The tap is random and it's not a constant tap sound. It's a single tap noise. I might check my chainring next. Maybe I'll get lucky and that's the fix.

    If you all ever have a weird tapping noise and it's related to your cable housing, I recommend sliding this stuff over the housing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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  53. #2853
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    Just thought I'd update my tapping noise adventure. After removing the crank to test the torque on the chainring, I realized that my rear shifter cable housing was missing a C-clip. I installed a zip tie and the tapping noise went away. I had to deal with this noise for a couple of months and it was all due to a missing C-clip.
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  54. #2854
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    27.5 Ranger 3.0 on a 50mm rim. With the inner chainring of the 3x setup on the 2 lowest cassette cogs, chain rubs tire. Stock crank with a 104/64 spider. Not an issue with a 2.8 Rekon, but that's not a surprise as the Rekons run narrow. Not a big deal on this current bike because it's going to end up 34/13 for a townie. But I was planning on Coronado3.0s for my trail rig, and as much as I earlier said "30x46 is plenty", now I'm addicted to rolling breaks on climbs. Might end up with a 2.5 EhLine in the back. Tall rigid fork and a 170 crank should do fine. I may even go 165.

    Battery: That is a mystery tap solved. Doesn't matter how minor, you tracked it down and fixed it. Good on you.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

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  55. #2855
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtolios View Post
    Found a used 2019 TJ Deore for $800ish and I am tempted to jump on it.
    I am currently riding a slightly modded Nishiki Colorado Comp 27.5+, but I am itching for something better. The bike is great for what it is and how expensive it was (dirt cheap in pre-COVID used market, 40% retail or so), but the lack of a taper headset + the super-heavy coil XCM 32 fork + Boost wheel has virtually no upgrade options available anymore. The geo is not bad at all, but the top-tube is too high and I doubt I could use even a 100mm (27.2) dropper (stock post assembly will go lower than the min extension of ext-activated dropper posts).

    My thoughts: the TJ Deore is offering the same gear 11-42T range with 1x less cog, unfortunately is also 135mm QR (but upgradable to 12x148 if need-be), but past that has a basic air fork, a decent dropper post, wider rims etc. Quite importantly it is much lighter...I will be getting a L, but the MD is advertised at ~30lbs, when my 20" L Colorado Comp is 37lbs right now.

    It is an all-around upgrade, I am just worried that I should wait for a better speced model...and perhaps never get it with the current market. If I was buying new, I would probably look into a new TJ, the Specialized Fuse, maybe a San Marin Quentin 2.

    Is the $800 a fair price if in really good condition? Looks like it wasn't ridden much, still stock tires with little wear.
    So, based on current pricing (bike are going for a premium at the moment) it does seem worth it.

    Just go into it with eyes open, that fork probably will want to be updated, if you want thru axles, that means messing with your hubs, the tires aren't tubeless (they go tubeless for a spell--but will weep sealant). My friend had MT200 brakes they didn't do well slowing him down (200lbs and on a Trek Stache).

    But that is this sport. Most of us go from one upgrade to the next.
    Salsa Timberjack GX (2018)

  56. #2856
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    Timberjack Thread-img_2101.jpgTimberjack Thread-img_2106.jpgTimberjack Thread-img_2112.jpg

    Before & after
    smashed the F*** out of my rear arc40 rim on saturday. Got it bent back OK with a pliers and an adjustable wrench. Still a noticeable flat spot, but whatevz.
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
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  57. #2857
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat View Post
    Battery: That is a mystery tap solved. Doesn't matter how minor, you tracked it down and fixed it. Good on you.
    Unfortunately no

    When I pedal on the flat street, I hear nothing. As soon as I get into a mild climb or dirt surface, the noise returns. I ran into a ton of friends at the bike park. One of them had a similar noise like me. He told me to check my Race Face Atlas crank caps to ensure they are torqued. I didn't have the 16mm hex socket to check so I had to order one for $7 from Amazon. I guess local hardware stores don't carry them.

    I did look closely at my crank caps and it seems like one of them is not completely torqued. Hopefully that's my fix for sure.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  58. #2858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battery View Post
    Unfortunately no

    When I pedal on the flat street, I hear nothing. As soon as I get into a mild climb or dirt surface, the noise returns.
    Last time I had this, I ended up tearing down everything around the BB : cranks, BB and pedals came out, cleaned everything down to even the pedal axles and bearing, everything was re-greased and put back together and torqued properly. No sounds =).

    Did I identify the culprit? Well, not per se, but ...

    Quote Originally Posted by theandrewjoe View Post
    So, based on current pricing (bike are going for a premium at the moment) it does seem worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by theandrewjoe View Post
    Just go into it with eyes open, that fork probably will want to be updated, if you want thru axles, that means messing with your hubs, the tires aren't tubeless (they go tubeless for a spell--but will weep sealant). My friend had MT200 brakes they didn't do well slowing him down (200lbs and on a Trek Stache).

    But that is this sport. Most of us go from one upgrade to the next.


    I hear ya...I'm in that boat already, but my current ride has a straight 1-1/8" head-tube w/o room for 44mm headset AND boost front, something I cannot upgrade from easily. There used to be a boost Manitou Markhor fork with straight tube option that is now OOS everywhere. Still I can sell it probably for more than what I have into it...sellers market works both ways =)

    I knew the $800 pricetag was not that bad, I was mostly worried about the Deore being too much of a side-step, not having the 12mm dropouts, same MT200 as I have now etc etc, just a fresher / more upgradable frame than mine. I
    .e. a rabbit hole of temptation.

    Funny that you've mentioned the Stache...my current shortlist of bikes, include the Stache (although an outlier), the TJ and the San Quentin 2/3.

  59. #2859
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtolios View Post

    Funny that you've mentioned the Stache...my current shortlist of bikes, include the Stache (although an outlier), the TJ and the San Quentin 2/3.
    I will point out: Trek has stopped selling the stache, if you want a 29+ you will have to find a used one or a shop with one, or just do their bikepacking rig and swap to suspension.

    I did get a chance to ride the stache, I rode a 19.5", it seemed too cramped, they didn't have a 21.5" for me to try. My 19" Timberjack fits me like a glove. Trek has some weird sizing for my body geo.
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  60. #2860
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    That's what I get for trying to be encouraging.

    Both my TJs have creaky cranks. I want an excuse for a bling BB and a shorter crank, so I just ride em. But this thread has me wondering if it's just loose chainring bolts.

    My wife has a slightly warped rotor. If it was any other bike, I'd just bend it a bit. But it's hers. I told her to take it to the shop. She's a perfectionist. My wrench hands will be clean of the liability.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

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  61. #2861
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    I was completely unable to find the creak on my NX power spline setup. I took it all apart and cleaned it all and tightened everything to spec and put in a new BB and new pedals, it still creaks. But it doesn't seem to be coming loose, so I'm just going to tolerate it.

  62. #2862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post


    Before & after
    smashed the F*** out of my rear arc40 rim on saturday. Got it bent back OK with a pliers and an adjustable wrench. Still a noticeable flat spot, but whatevz.
    How'd you manage to smash the rim?

  63. #2863
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat View Post
    That's what I get for trying to be encouraging.

    Both my TJs have creaky cranks. I want an excuse for a bling BB and a shorter crank, so I just ride em. But this thread has me wondering if it's just loose chainring bolts.

    My wife has a slightly warped rotor. If it was any other bike, I'd just bend it a bit. But it's hers. I told her to take it to the shop. She's a perfectionist. My wrench hands will be clean of the liability.
    I'm unsure if it's the crank or BB. It literally sounds like a tap noise as if something is tapping every now and then. I might run some wire loom along my rear brake line inside the frame and see if I get lucky. I don't mind squeaks and other noises but this tap noise is going to be the death of me. It's really loud.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  64. #2864
    ilmfat
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    I dropped a cable housing end cap in one of the frames one of my brothers ended up with. I don't even remember which one to warn them. They're in for some mystery rattling.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb. - 2011

    Climbing ain't so bad. - 2019

  65. #2865
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    Quote Originally Posted by MX9799 View Post
    How'd you manage to smash the rim?
    goin' fast down a rocky descent. not sure exactly what happened but buddy behind me said it was loud. Tire seems fine, rim still holding up
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
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  66. #2866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial29erGuy View Post
    goin' fast down a rocky descent. not sure exactly what happened but buddy behind me said it was loud. Tire seems fine, rim still holding up
    I hear ya.

    When I put a new wheelset on my TJ about a year ago, I took the tires off and noticed that one of my stock sunringle rims had a ding in them that is just the opposite of yours. It's a dent that is pointed outwards from the center of the rim, almost like something on the inside of the tire smashed it outwards. Wish I knew what did it. The tire was still holding air just fine when I retired those rims though, and you couldn't tell by riding the bike that there was anything wrong with the rim.

  67. #2867
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    Does anyone know which Salsa Frame Plugs are best for a 2018 Timberjack? Thick or Thin?

    Frame Plugs for Internal Cable Routing

    Part Numbers
    Option UPC MPN
    Black / Thick 657993077559 06-001018-B
    Black / Thin 657993077535 06-001018-B

    Timberjack Thread-salsa-frame-plugs-226287-1-11-1.jpg

    Weirdly enough, they are sold here by Trek:
    https://www.trekbicyclesuperstore.co...SABEgLe8vD_BwE

  68. #2868
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    Here is the Salsa tech sheet on them:

    https://www.qbp.com/diagrams/TechInf...luginstall.pdf

    They say
    Carbon frames:
    ē Thin for single port at the seat tube, thick for all other ports
    ē Thick for double port

    Metal Frames without Reinforcement Plates:
    ē Thin (both single and double)

    Metal Frames with Reinforcement Plates:
    ē Thick (both single and double
    2013 Salsa Horsethief 2 (ironically, bike was stolen)
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  69. #2869
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    Thanks Creeper! I assume that for the Timberjack it would be: FS2365 Salsa Thin Frame Plugs Internal Cable Routing 5-Pack

    Because, I don't think that it has Reinforcement Plates, correct?


    Quote Originally Posted by thecreeper23 View Post
    Here is the Salsa tech sheet on them:

    https://www.qbp.com/diagrams/TechInf...luginstall.pdf

    They say
    Carbon frames:
    ē Thin for single port at the seat tube, thick for all other ports
    ē Thick for double port

    Metal Frames without Reinforcement Plates:
    ē Thin (both single and double)

    Metal Frames with Reinforcement Plates:
    ē Thick (both single and double

  70. #2870
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    Hey peeps, I went out and bought another bike. I picked up a 2020 Salsa Cutthroat Apex 1! I ordered it from a shop in Oregon and got it tax free along with free shipping. Luckily the shop is only 5 hours away. I want to drive down there and pick it up but my wife doesn't know I bought it. I can't exactly explain to her why I need to take a 10hr round trip drive to Bend, Oregon lol

    For some reason, there are plenty of Apex 1 models all over the place right now. My plan is to switch out parts later on down the road. For now, just a saddle swap, Salsa frame bag, and bottle cages.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  71. #2871
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    Iíve been gearing up for my Cutthroat delivery! It was supposed to be today but UPS decided to deliver it on Monday...while Iím at jury duty....

    Anyways, I mounted my 2.2Ē Teravail Sparwood tires to my 29er wheels. Iím tossing these wheels on my Cutty and wanted to break them in while riding my TJ.

    Oh and my creaking noise...itís in the headset area and only happens when I turn. The cables arenít rubbing loud enough to make this noise.




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  72. #2872
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    Did you get the sus version of the Cutty? How are you liking the Sparwoods so far?

  73. #2873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Did you get the sus version of the Cutty? How are you liking the Sparwoods so far?
    It's the rigid Apex 1 version. I prefer rigid forks on my gravel/adventure bikes. Sparwoods feel great. The bike feels a touch lighter when compared to my 3" wheel setup. I decided to do a comparison ride between my 3" tires vs 2.2" Sparwoods. I rode the same gravel route over 2 days. For some reason, I was over 1mph faster on 3" tires than my Sparwoods. Can't really say why but it was interesting to see the data.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  74. #2874
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    Confidence of the plus tire & less worrying about line choice? I forget what the clearance on the 2020 Cutty is but I know Fargo could fit plus tire so a test the other way around would be interesting too.

  75. #2875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Confidence of the plus tire & less worrying about line choice? I forget what the clearance on the 2020 Cutty is but I know Fargo could fit plus tire so a test the other way around would be interesting too.
    My initial guess was that I could bulldoze the descents on 3" tires and not care about line choice. On 2.2" tires, I am more cautious lol!

    The Cutty can handle up to 29 x 2.4" mountain bike tires. They are specced with 2.2" tires though. I plan to ride a lot of distance on this bike so I may stick with 2.2" tires only.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  76. #2876
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    I guess you could say we're a "plus size family"

    Had my wife's TJ and my stache out on the Levis and Trow trails in Wisconsin this weekend, she is so much more confident on her TJ than the old Gary Fisher 26 relic I had given her. Floats over sand, forgives square edge rocks, and grips like mad. Very happy with the bike for the price

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  77. #2877
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    Quote Originally Posted by phalkon30 View Post
    I guess you could say we're a "plus size family"

    Had my wife's TJ and my stache out on the Levis and Trow trails in Wisconsin this weekend, she is so much more confident on her TJ than the old Gary Fisher 26 relic I had given her. Floats over sand, forgives square edge rocks, and grips like mad. Very happy with the bike for the price

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Great to hear! I definitely love riding plus tires on just about everything. I am surprised that I cranked out 200 miles on my TJ since March. That's more miles than what I do in a year on a mountain bike. My TJ is definitely a keeper
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  78. #2878
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    Nice! Your Cutty may take a little of that time, cause that new bike feel is real!

  79. #2879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battery View Post
    Hey peeps, I went out and bought another bike. I picked up a 2020 Salsa Cutthroat Apex 1! I ordered it from a shop in Oregon and got it tax free along with free shipping. Luckily the shop is only 5 hours away. I want to drive down there and pick it up but my wife doesn't know I bought it. I can't exactly explain to her why I need to take a 10hr round trip drive to Bend, Oregon lol

    For some reason, there are plenty of Apex 1 models all over the place right now. My plan is to switch out parts later on down the road. For now, just a saddle swap, Salsa frame bag, and bottle cages.
    haha, i was also *secretly* browsing the gravel bike sector...

    but also, totally just ordered some tools so i can take apart the rear hub and the bb and the cranks to get it a good clean/relube/retorque. i wasnt having any creaks but the rear hub has this "rocking" sensation especially when coasting. I have no reference to compare it to so i don't know if it's normal or not.

    but since i eventually will want an oval chainring (32t is what fit our salsas?) and maybe 170mm cranks and maybe new drivetrain; i might as well practice taking those apart first.

  80. #2880
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    Because it would be a tight fit with 2.8s in the rear. The frame isn't designed for 29+ but can do it and I enjoy never having a pedal strike with all the rocks and roots here
    Plenty of room with 2.8ís, at least the Terrene McFlyís. Gets a little tight with 29x3.0, but that is what I am running xr4/xr2 29x3.0. Had to move the dropouts the whole way back. With the 29x2.8ís, had to move them 1/2 way back.

    When the 3.0 wears out in the rear, Iíll run 29x3.0 front and 29x2.8 out back. To me, that will be the perfect setup.

  81. #2881
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwcn View Post
    Plenty of room with 2.8ís, at least the Terrene McFlyís. Gets a little tight with 29x3.0, but that is what I am running xr4/xr2 29x3.0. Had to move the dropouts the whole way back. With the 29x2.8ís, had to move them 1/2 way back.

    When the 3.0 wears out in the rear, Iíll run 29x3.0 front and 29x2.8 out back. To me, that will be the perfect setup.
    I have the TI frame, my understanding is that they have a little less clearance than the ALU version.
    Today I will do what others won't, so tomorrow I can do what others can't

  82. #2882
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweeder82o View Post
    haha, i was also *secretly* browsing the gravel bike sector...
    I really enjoy gravel pounding. For some reason, I enjoy the pain and suffering of riding long distance over changing terrain such as gravel, road, and dirt. That's all I've been doing the last 900 miles on my e-gravel bike. I honestly think I have a hidden passion to be an ultra endurance rider. I'm starting to build up my endurance to ride a century over gravel and road. My body hurts like hell all over most of the time anyways. Might as well add to my suffering while on a bike
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  83. #2883
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    Well riding a heavier bike like the TJ could make longer/faster rides on a gravel easier(on the legs) & riding longer miles will make shorter rides on the TJ better.

  84. #2884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Well riding a heavier bike like the TJ could make longer/faster rides on a gravel easier(on the legs) & riding longer miles will make shorter rides on the TJ better.
    My TJ knows how to get my HR up! I enjoy gravel pounding 10-20 mile sessions during the week with my TJ. I'm skipping the mountain bike trails due to lack of rain. Lack of rain = dusty trails = me sliding all over the place!


    I now have a spare 11-46 cassette and I want to figure out how to make it work on the Cutty. I have an Apex 1 drivetrain and riders said that the Apex 1 rear mech can be adjusted to clear a 46T cassette. There is just enough B screw available to make it work. I might give it a shot later!
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  85. #2885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battery View Post
    Iíve been gearing up for my Cutthroat delivery! It was supposed to be today but UPS decided to deliver it on Monday...while Iím at jury duty....

    Anyways, I mounted my 2.2Ē Teravail Sparwood tires to my 29er wheels. Iím tossing these wheels on my Cutty and wanted to break them in while riding my TJ.

    Oh and my creaking noise...itís in the headset area and only happens when I turn. The cables arenít rubbing loud enough to make this noise.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Take apart your headset, you can do it partially or fully. You need to just do a basic wipedown of the bearings and lather in some new grease where the mating surfaces are, i.e. crown race and fork stem. This should stop that random creaking noise. over time the grease will get pushed out and particles will get pushed in prompting for noisy bikes

  86. #2886
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    Cool-blue Rhythm My Hybrid Commuter

    Hey guys just got this TimberJack not too long ago from a guy who worked at a bike shop and I am excited to share my experiences with everyone! The previous owner did most of the initial upgrades which essentially changed it into a TimberFargo. The salsa drop-down bars, surely rigid fork, fox transfer dropper, 11 spd XTR derailleur, bb7 mech brakes, all hooked up to some ultegra shifters, turned this Jack into a pretty badass looking Fargo.

    I've been loving the way the drop-down bars put you in that overly forward attack stance while biking and the amount of energy that is transferred through the rigid frame to the ground from each pedal. I use the Salsa for commuting to work, biking to the city for groceries, and plan on doing a bunch of bike-packing trips here in the near future.

    Something was off though.... the frame says TIMBERJACK and that is exactly what I am missing... the JACK! the SQUISHY!! After searching around I managed to find a new takeoff 140mm Fox Float 34 fork, guide R hydraulics, a stem and bar all from a Kona Process... only thing missing is an 11spd clicker.. Being anxious as always, I decided to put on the squishy and break the laws that challenge the rules of what is considered "acceptable" in biking physics.


    The commute to work starts on a very narrow and windy road that is set to an outrageous 50mph speed limit. You can definitely start feeling like ken block once you get going in the groove, and for this reason, this little section of road is absolutely terrifying. Good thing there is a 4-wheeler path on the side shoulder that you can easily ditch into if you become choked out by the dissatisfied mob of impatient drivers that are heading home. I usually try and avoid traveling in this ditch because it adds 5-8 minutes to my route, very bumpy and rocky, has a bunch of broken glass in spots, and you may even get the chance of surprise greeting from a 4-wheeler/dirt-bike around a corner. Then I think about getting ran over on the road and these issues soon become negligible. (Yes, once you get out of the metropolitan limits of the one big city in Alaska, everything turns to redneck.)

    The new fox 34 is almost a perfect match. Wishing it was a bit stiffer like my ohlin's rfx36, since you can feel the fork flex and chatter when applying the initial clamping force of the bb7's but overall it's plenty for my goals with this bike at the moment. Being able to crank through big, small, and unexpected bumps while not taking the major brunt of the impacts to the shoulder blades makes me put a big grin on my face. It's different and that's what I like about it! Below are a couple photos of me getting a bit sendy, first time really riding with the new squishy clipless setup. There's plenty more to come!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Timberjack Thread-screenshot_20200803-220613_video-player.jpg  

    Timberjack Thread-screenshot_20200803-220809_video-player.jpg  

    Timberjack Thread-img_20200801_164628_713.jpg  


  87. #2887
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    Looks awesome! I saw a few photos of a drop bar TJ And I thought it was neat! Have fun out there!
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  88. #2888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battery View Post
    My TJ knows how to get my HR up! I enjoy gravel pounding 10-20 mile sessions during the week with my TJ. I'm skipping the mountain bike trails due to lack of rain. Lack of rain = dusty trails = me sliding all over the place!


    I now have a spare 11-46 cassette and I want to figure out how to make it work on the Cutty. I have an Apex 1 drivetrain and riders said that the Apex 1 rear mech can be adjusted to clear a 46T cassette. There is just enough B screw available to make it work. I might give it a shot later!
    Garbaruk mod will help you get 11-50t if you really want to or 11-46 to work easier. I've also seen Russ from PLP try the WolfTooth Roadlink to get 11-50t working, but I think said worked better with 11-46t.

  89. #2889
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    Quote Originally Posted by TitanofChaos View Post
    I have the TI frame, my understanding is that they have a little less clearance than the ALU version.
    Thatís good to know. Iíve been contemplating a TI version, but if there is less clearance, I have no interest. Other TI frames out there for the same or less money with 3.0 clearance.

  90. #2890
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    The Apex 1 RD appears to be exactly the same as the NX 11 except for the cable routing so it should do 11-46 just fine. Might need a slightly longer chain depending how long the original is.

  91. #2891
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    Quote Originally Posted by 907nattylight View Post
    Hey guys just got this TimberJack not too long ago from a guy who worked at a bike shop and I am excited to share my experiences with everyone! The previous owner did most of the initial upgrades which essentially changed it into a TimberFargo. The salsa drop-down bars, surely rigid fork, fox transfer dropper, 11 spd XTR derailleur, bb7 mech brakes, all hooked up to some ultegra shifters, turned this Jack into a pretty badass looking Fargo.
    Hell Yea
    My name is George. Iím unemployed and I live with my parents.
    2017 BMC Speedfox 25-622 ISO
    2017 Salsa Timberjack 40-584 ISO

  92. #2892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Garbaruk mod will help you get 11-50t if you really want to or 11-46 to work easier. I've also seen Russ from PLP try the WolfTooth Roadlink to get 11-50t working, but I think said worked better with 11-46t.
    I forgot to respond to this post! I visited their website and wow...so much cool stuff! I might order a new cage from them later on. I'm going to try a 34T chainring on the 11-42 cassette and see what I think. The 36T is doing well but if I'm hauling stuff in my bags, I would like some extra climbing assist from the chainring.

    Due to this Cutthroat being too awesome, I've decided to shelf my TJ in the garage for rest of summer and stick with pedaling long distance. I rarely ride my mountain bike in the summer anyways. The trails are so dusty and traction is currently an issue. All of the plant life along the trails are covered in dust right now! It's better to wait until we can get some regular rainfall so the trails are better to ride. Plus I tend to gravitate toward road/gravel bikes in summer anyways lol!
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  93. #2893
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    Yeah, I found about Garbaruk watching Russ from Pathless Pedaled videos. He even swapped a eagle long cage & jockey wheels on to a Apex or was it Rival to show an alternative to the Garbaruk cage mod. If I can find an eagle cage & jockey that will be how I get my regular NX to be able to do 11-46t. Yeah I hear you about the gravel bike in the summer, I get less hot on a lighter bike in the heat.

  94. #2894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Yeah, I found about Garbaruk watching Russ from Pathless Pedaled videos. He even swapped a eagle long cage & jockey wheels on to a Apex or was it Rival to show an alternative to the Garbaruk cage mod. If I can find an eagle cage & jockey that will be how I get my regular NX to be able to do 11-46t. Yeah I hear you about the gravel bike in the summer, I get less hot on a lighter bike in the heat.
    A few Cutty owners on FB actually run the stock Apex cage with a 11-50 cassette. They said it works perfectly and there's a lot of B screw left too. I might give it a shot later. Right now, I switched out my chainring to a 34T (stock 11-42 cassette) so we will see how that feels before I look at Garbaruk stuff. Cycling in WA = lots of climbing.
    Salsa Timberjack | Salsa Cutthroat | Cannondale Synapse Neo

  95. #2895
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    You don't have to tell me I am in SoCal were across the street from the beach is 1000 foot climbs in short distances. A bike that light 34 with 42t would be easy compared to the TJ. I now with my plus bike do easy road grades after work 30/11t just to get my leg strength up so it's easier when on a gravel bike.

    Any hints on the changes, if any, for the 2021 TJ. Have the itch to get one next year in 29x2.6 form as my HT & keep my B+ as bike-packing & HD gravel.

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