Salsa Delgado X, Sun XTC actual weights- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Salsa Delgado X, Sun XTC actual weights

    My new Sun XTC arrived today, so I decided to compare the claimed with the actual weight, and also for the Salsa Delgado X that it is replacing.

    Sun XTC
    Claimed weight: 470 gm
    Actual weight: 544 gm

    Salsa Delgado X
    Claimed weight: 460 gm
    Actual weight: 537 gm

    As you can see, both manufacturer's claimed weight is about 15% less than actual. I wonder if this sort of margin of error is "industry standard".

  2. #2
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    Doh!

    That's really disappointing... I thought the XTC was supposed to be a 0-degree Lite rolled out to 700c... and I know the 0 degree lites (got one right in front of me) are around 400g. 400g x 1.1 = 440. Or 450 if you give them the benefit of the doubt... but not 544! Lame.

    Heck, I have IRD Clyde rims sitting in front of me as well, and they're intended for touring and tandems and still weigh in at 530-535.

    A 23-25mm, sub-500 gram rim with eyelets and a decent brake track has to be the holy grail of 29er wheel parts - why can't anyone seem to make one?

    -Walt

  3. #3
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    According to Sun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt
    That's really disappointing... I thought the XTC was supposed to be a 0-degree Lite rolled out to 700c... and I know the 0 degree lites (got one right in front of me) are around 400g. 400g x 1.1 = 440. Or 450 if you give them the benefit of the doubt... but not 544! Lame.

    Heck, I have IRD Clyde rims sitting in front of me as well, and they're intended for touring and tandems and still weigh in at 530-535.

    A 23-25mm, sub-500 gram rim with eyelets and a decent brake track has to be the holy grail of 29er wheel parts - why can't anyone seem to make one?

    -Walt
    ...the 0 Degree XTC is the same extrusion as the 0 Degree XC, not the 0 Degree Lite. At least that's what someone there told me. I have 0 Degree XC's on my 26 and it looks like the same rim as the XTC.

  4. #4
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    xtc weight

    I heard the same from sun when I called them early summer. 0 Deg Xc rolled longer for 700c. I had the 26" version on my previous SS and they did weigh in at the claimed weight of 430g.

    430g 26" should come out at 470g for 29". Something doesn't add up

    On another note, I have 3 ME14a rims that I ran on my 29er for a while before going to Stan's rims. These weighed the claimed 430g (429-433). I ordered a 4th to complete a set and the new rim 482g!!!!!!!!! This is a narrow road rim.

    Either they changed their specs or quality control sucks. 430-480 is a big spread

    Maybe the same is true with the XTC's.

    I wish I lived close to the factory so I could weigh all rims before purchase to get ones within spec.

    Too bad too. I would love a 450g eyeleted, machine brake surface rim. As would all of us. The'd be a hot seller

    At least the bonti mustangs are only 20g off listed weight compared the 80-100 many others seem to be.

  5. #5
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    Sub 500g rims

    Bonti Mustangs come in under 500g. 490 on my scale.

    Very nice wide & Thick machined brake surface, eyeleted and offer an OSB version for geared and disc hubs.

    $69 retail.

  6. #6
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    Salsa has always used the same claimed weight for both the 26" and 700c versions of the Delgado. Mine, 2 years ago, were between 515 and 525g. Looks like their tooling needs work, if now produces significantly heavier rims.
    This explains the increasing number of happy clydes on Salsa's, though :-)

    I've long struggled to find or beg for a 440/500g 23mm wide 700c rim. If in the 90's we had so many decent 400g rims, 440g and a 4 extra spokes would seem like a good idea for 29" to me. Mavic?
    We really only have Stan, rims at 390/392g, and even over 24mm wide. Though without eyelets, reviews have been good. Stan with his knowlegde might be able to make an eyelitted rim with the same profile, but with thicker walls, at around 460g-480g. Bontrager and Ritcheys indeed are claimed around the 480-490g mark, but only Mavic and Stan seem to ever manage their rim weight claims.

    My 480g claimed Velocity Dyads came in at 540g each, right on the mark. Over 10% extra. I was able to swap them for 506g ones, the lightest Velocity could find, very nice of them, but shows how theoretical the 480g figure is. and it's supoosed to be a tandem rim? My 506g ones are good, but 480g Dyads on a tandem...?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage
    ...the 0 Degree XTC is the same extrusion as the 0 Degree XC, not the 0 Degree Lite. At least that's what someone there told me. I have 0 Degree XC's on my 26 and it looks like the same rim as the XTC.
    The zero XC and zero XC Lite are the same extrusion with different eyelets or joint treatment or both...I can't remember. Pins versus welding will make a 20 g difference I'm sure.

    Bontrager once wrote an article about rim weight. The advertised weight is the one you get when the extrusion die is new. As they extrude rims, the die wears and the extrusions get thicker. They replace the die according to their costs and manufacturing specs...so rims vary in weight according to when they were manufactured.

    FWIW, Bontrager said he had found a manufacturer that was willing to replace dies very frequently, and that his rims are closer to spec than others.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage
    My new Sun XTC arrived today, so I decided to compare the claimed with the actual weight, and also for the Salsa Delgado X that it is replacing.

    Sun XTC
    Claimed weight: 470 gm
    Actual weight: 544 gm

    Salsa Delgado X
    Claimed weight: 460 gm
    Actual weight: 537 gm

    As you can see, both manufacturer's claimed weight is about 15% less than actual. I wonder if this sort of margin of error is "industry standard".
    No, that margin of error is not standard. Typically rim manufacturers have a +/- 10% weight range for any given rim. So if a claimed rim weight is 400g, it's possible that the first rims extruded could weigh 360g and the last rims extruded out of the same extrusion die could weigh 440g. That's usually the life of the die - once the weight is at 10% above target weight, the die is tossed and a new one is used.

    Are you sure your scale is accurate?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Salsa has always used the same claimed weight for both the 26" and 700c versions of the Delgado. Mine, 2 years ago, were between 515 and 525g. Looks like their tooling needs work, if now produces significantly heavier rims.
    This explains the increasing number of happy clydes on Salsa's, though :-)

    I've long struggled to find or beg for a 440/500g 23mm wide 700c rim. If in the 90's we had so many decent 400g rims, 440g and a 4 extra spokes would seem like a good idea for 29" to me. Mavic?
    We really only have Stan, rims at 390/392g, and even over 24mm wide. Though without eyelets, reviews have been good. Stan with his knowlegde might be able to make an eyelitted rim with the same profile, but with thicker walls, at around 460g-480g. Bontrager and Ritcheys indeed are claimed around the 480-490g mark, but only Mavic and Stan seem to ever manage their rim weight claims.

    My 480g claimed Velocity Dyads came in at 540g each, right on the mark. Over 10% extra. I was able to swap them for 506g ones, the lightest Velocity could find, very nice of them, but shows how theoretical the 480g figure is. and it's supoosed to be a tandem rim? My 506g ones are good, but 480g Dyads on a tandem...?
    The variety in weights in crazy. given it should be machined or extruded to specific tolerances, the differences should be in the 5% range. Makes me wonder how old the manufacturing is.

  10. #10
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    what 26" rim would you like to see as a 29er?

    If you assume the weight difference will be increased by a factor of 1.14 what rim in the 26er selection would you like to see as a 29er rim

    I would like the Velocity cliffhanger (28mm wide-internal25.2mm) - would be 620gm but a great freeride rim that is wide but trailridable

    Then I would want a velocity VXC disk rim (sorry I run disk only) Eyeleted and a great rim (have some on my 26" rides) would be in the same range as the dyad but eyelets for strenght.

    I don't see the need for anything wider than a 30mm. I don't think I could handle anything those rims could take

  11. #11
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    i want wtb laserbeam in 700c version.

  12. #12
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    It would seem to be suspect...

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    No, that margin of error is not standard. Typically rim manufacturers have a +/- 10% weight range for any given rim. So if a claimed rim weight is 400g, it's possible that the first rims extruded could weigh 360g and the last rims extruded out of the same extrusion die could weigh 440g. That's usually the life of the die - once the weight is at 10% above target weight, the die is tossed and a new one is used.

    Are you sure your scale is accurate?
    Yeah, all this has got me wondering about the accuracy of my scale as well. It has been accurate with smaller weights, in the sub- 100 gram range. Maybe it is screwed up on heavier stuff. Ironically, in this case that would be good news!

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage
    Yeah, all this has got me wondering about the accuracy of my scale as well. It has been accurate with smaller weights, in the sub- 100 gram range. Maybe it is screwed up on heavier stuff. Ironically, in this case that would be good news!
    Well, maybe not. I just weighed some rims I have on a scale I know is accurate.

    Salsa Delgado X - 545g
    WTB Dual Duty XC - 520g
    Sun 0 XC - 538g
    Alex TD17 - 575g
    Alex ACE 18 - 490g

    I'd love to see a 24mm wide rim in the 475g consistent range.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage
    My new Sun XTC arrived today, so I decided to compare the claimed with the actual weight, and also for the Salsa Delgado X that it is replacing.

    Sun XTC
    Claimed weight: 470 gm
    Actual weight: 544 gm

    Salsa Delgado X
    Claimed weight: 460 gm
    Actual weight: 537 gm

    As you can see, both manufacturer's claimed weight is about 15% less than actual. I wonder if this sort of margin of error is "industry standard".
    Interesting! My Delgado-based wheels seemed an awful lot heavier than expected (haven't weighed 'em). I was disappointed in how heavy they turned out but decided to live with it. I just chalked it up to the beefy XT hubs and possibly forgetting to specify double-butted spokes, but maybe it's the rims too.

  15. #15
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    Well, that's reassuring...sort of...

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    Well, maybe not. I just weighed some rims I have on a scale I know is accurate.

    Salsa Delgado X - 545g
    WTB Dual Duty XC - 520g
    Sun 0 XC - 538g
    Alex TD17 - 575g
    Alex ACE 18 - 490g

    I'd love to see a 24mm wide rim in the 475g consistent range.
    It's nice to know that my scale may be accurate, but by doubting it's accuracy, I could entertain the possibility that the rims were actually closer to the claimed weight. Thanks for checking, though.

  16. #16
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    Pricey, though..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockdogger
    Bonti Mustangs come in under 500g. 490 on my scale.

    Very nice wide & Thick machined brake surface, eyeleted and offer an OSB version for geared and disc hubs.

    $69 retail.
    Yeah, the Mustangs were my first choice. Speedgoat has 'em for $65. But I got the Sun XTC for $29, plus tax and shipping. That settled it for me.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Appendage
    It's nice to know that my scale may be accurate, but by doubting it's accuracy, I could entertain the possibility that the rims were actually closer to the claimed weight. Thanks for checking, though.
    But is your bike any less fun to ride now that the truth is out

  18. #18
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    Naw...

    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    But is your bike any less fun to ride now that the truth is out
    ....I don't really care. It's just fun squawking about this stuff, but it's not a big deal to me. When I want light, like for a race, I put on the OEM Bonty Race wheels that came with the bike. They are significantly lighter (I don't recall the exact numbers) than my XTR/Salsa wheels.

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