Salsa 32t ring on XT cranks- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Salsa 32t ring on XT cranks

    I just replaced the original 32t ring on my XT(751) cranks with a Salsa ring. The inside of the ring doesn't seem to match up to the spider very well. There is a 1 to 2mm gap between the ring and the spider at all four bolt hole locations. Seems to me this would not be as strong as the original ring that mated perfectly. Below is an image. Hope I am making sense.
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  2. #2
    The man who fell to earth
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    If you move the ring to the inside part of the spider, it will fit snug and perfect. If you have a decent amount of chainline adjustment on the hub (as with a converted gearie hub) you can deal with it easily that way. Otherwise using another (wider) BB, adjusting the BB you have, or trying it out the way shown in your pics are the options.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger
    I just replaced the original 32t ring on my XT(751) cranks with a Salsa ring. The inside of the ring doesn't seem to match up to the spider very well. There is a 1 to 2mm gap between the ring and the spider at all four bolt hole locations. Seems to me this would not be as strong as the original ring that mated perfectly. Below is an image. Hope I am making sense.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger
    Seems to me this would not be as strong as the original ring that mated perfectly.
    The question is, is it still strong enough? I say yes. Don't see how a snugger fit would offer any additional resistance to pedalling forces. The chainring bolts would still be doing all the work.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by czardonic
    The question is, is it still strong enough? I say yes. Don't see how a snugger fit would offer any additional resistance to pedalling forces. The chainring bolts would still be doing all the work.
    Yeah I have a freewheel hub so no adjustable chainline. I could get the next size BB I guess. 118 vs 113. I think there is 4mm of difference between outside and inside ring postion. I would think it wouldn't be as strong on the outside as the lip on the spider seems like it would take some of the force off the bolts. Thoughts?

  5. #5
    Jabberwocky Jockey
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    Don't worry about it

    I have had two Salsa rings on two different XT cranks ( a M752 and M760) and they were the same. Never had a problem, still don't. I have a 34 Salsa ring on my M760 crank that I currently use. It is fine.
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  6. #6
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    Thanks DW. What is the worst that can happen, right?

  7. #7
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    Not XT but Deore, I believe the spider is the same.



    I have been using it on the outside position from day 1 and haven't had any problems, even used the original chainring bolts.


  8. #8
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    Excellent. Now if I can just get the bolts to stop coming loose after every ride.

  9. #9
    6x7=Dont Panic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger
    Excellent. Now if I can just get the bolts to stop coming loose after every ride.
    Maybe you need some more torque. Although, be careful. Its pretty easy to overdo it and thats not good to do. Do you grease the bolts?
    Herro prease

  10. #10
    Rollin' a fatty
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    locktite?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRedMantra
    Maybe you need some more torque. Although, be careful. Its pretty easy to overdo it and thats not good to do. Do you grease the bolts?
    Haven't greased the bolts on this particular set. I use the tool to hold the bolt in place as well. I get them as tight as I feel is safe and then after one decent ride I can undo them with a hex wrench and fingertips. Loctite might be my next try but I am wondering if dedicated (shorter) ss chainring bolts might help.

  12. #12
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    Tighten the bolts more.

  13. #13
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    RedMantra is right

    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger
    Haven't greased the bolts on this particular set. I use the tool to hold the bolt in place as well. I get them as tight as I feel is safe and then after one decent ride I can undo them with a hex wrench and fingertips. Loctite might be my next try but I am wondering if dedicated (shorter) ss chainring bolts might help.
    clean greased threads hold tighter & better.

    Webcyclery.com has shortie, steel chain ring bolts.
    Last edited by Bike Nazi; 05-19-2005 at 07:31 PM. Reason: almost forgot

  14. #14
    SS Chimp
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    bolts working loose...

    same problem here but mine always was accompanied by creaking. Found that 2 or the 4 bolt holes in the salsa ring were not milled correctly and the female portion of the chainring bolt would not sit flush and perpendicular to the ring. Contacting salsa today to remedy the situation.
    all single...all the time

  15. #15
    ali'i hua
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    hmm. well, I've had the exact same gap issues with a salsa ring on my titus, but the cranks on it are Race Face Deus Cranks, so it appears that it's not specific to a perticular brand of cranks. oh, and on the deus cranks, the gap is present in the big and middle ring locations.

    any others out there?

  16. #16
    SS Chimp
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowSSer
    hmm. well, I've had the exact same gap issues with a salsa ring on my titus, but the cranks on it are Race Face Deus Cranks, so it appears that it's not specific to a perticular brand of cranks. oh, and on the deus cranks, the gap is present in the big and middle ring locations.

    any others out there?
    running Dues and if the salsa ring is inboard I have NO gap....i just checked. are you sure about the inboard position?
    all single...all the time

  17. #17
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    Glad to read this all. There's a 34t on it's way to me for my Saint cranks. Would love to run it in the outside position, of course.

  18. #18
    ballbuster
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    Second the loctite

    Quote Originally Posted by DiRt DeViL
    locktite?
    Use blue loctite on that size bolt. I like the new 'chapstick' style loctite in stick form. Easier to apply and a lot less messy. Be sure to torque those bolts down well. I also use red loctite on my crank arm bolts. I used to have problems with them working loose all the time, but since I started using red loctite on them, it has not been an issue.

    The added bonus of Loctite is that while keeping bolts from working loose, it also keeps them for siezing up. It is a common myth that loctite means you will never get the bolts apart again. That is just not true at all. It makes removing them (when you want to remove them) easier.

  19. #19

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    Same problem...

    I am running the same setup on my rig and found the same problem. With a little playing around I found that the backing portion of the short chainring bolts I was using did not pass through the chainring.

    By using longer backing nuts, or whatever you want to call them, I was able to have them pass through the spider and the chainring. This effectively indexed the chainring to its intended position. Otherwise, the smaller OD of the threaded portion of the bolt would provide a good amount of play between itself and the larger ID of the bolt hole.

    Hope that helps.

    -Pedro

  20. #20

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    Upset New Integrated XT version with Salsa & Spot same issue

    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger
    I just replaced the original 32t ring on my XT(751) cranks with a Salsa ring. The inside of the ring doesn't seem to match up to the spider very well. There is a 1 to 2mm gap between the ring and the spider at all four bolt hole locations. Seems to me this would not be as strong as the original ring that mated perfectly. Below is an image. Hope I am making sense.
    I'm running the new XT cranks and I have the same issue. I tried the Salsa ring and the gaps were and issue. Under high torque the ring would pull tight against two of the arms of the spider creating a tight chain on one side of the spin and a loose chain on the other.

    I've tried rings made by: Salsa, Blackspire and Spot but ran into the same issue on everyone one of them. I've torqued the bolts down with a torque wrench with blue loctite on the threads and ..... same issue. When I'm heading up a steep hill I hear a pop and the ring has shifted and pulled tight against two of the arms the opened up a gap on the other side.

    AHHHHHHH !!!!!!!

  21. #21
    Retro Grouch
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    Maybe stating the obvious..

    Quote Originally Posted by sea otter
    I'm running the new XT cranks and I have the same issue. I tried the Salsa ring and the gaps were and issue. Under high torque the ring would pull tight against two of the arms of the spider creating a tight chain on one side of the spin and a loose chain on the other.

    I've tried rings made by: Salsa, Blackspire and Spot but ran into the same issue on everyone one of them. I've torqued the bolts down with a torque wrench with blue loctite on the threads and ..... same issue. When I'm heading up a steep hill I hear a pop and the ring has shifted and pulled tight against two of the arms the opened up a gap on the other side.

    AHHHHHHH !!!!!!!
    Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but I'd say the Salsa chainrings are mounted backwards. Since most the chainrings are middle chain rings, they are countersunk on the flat, non machined and engraved side. If you want a good tight fit on the outside position, you need to turn the chainring around and take advange of the countersinks. When I use Salsa chainrings I always turn them around to the plain "ugly" side and use the countersinks in the chainring.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrontRanger
    Haven't greased the bolts on this particular set. I use the tool to hold the bolt in place as well. I get them as tight as I feel is safe and then after one decent ride I can undo them with a hex wrench and fingertips. Loctite might be my next try but I am wondering if dedicated (shorter) ss chainring bolts might help.
    I would answer a big YES!! even if you think the chainring bolts are tight, they are not designed to "index" the chain rings and need to tighten without bottoming out. I have never had a chainring nut loosen up on me using greased shorter single ring nuts.

    1G1G, Brad
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    Last edited by aka brad; 05-22-2005 at 09:29 PM.

  22. #22
    Retro Grouch
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    A few examples

    The Deore crank has a spoy chainring..
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka brad
    Perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but I'd say the Salsa chainrings are mounted backwards. Since most the chainrings are middle chain rings, they are countersunk on the flat, non machined and engraved side. If you want a good tight fit on the outside position, you need to turn the chainring around and take advange of the countersinks. When I use Salsa chainrings I always turn them around to the plain "ugly" side and use the countersinks in the chainring.



    I would answer a big YES!! even if you think the chainring bolts are tight, they are not designed to "index" the chain rings and need to tighten without bottoming out. I have never had a chainring nut loosen up on me using greased shorter single ring nuts.

    1G1G, Brad
    I am using chainring spacers which keeps the bolt from bottoming out. Still I thing the shorter bolts are the way to go. $15 vs $1 for the spacers was the only reason I didn't get them initially. I will turn the chainring around and give it a whirl.

  24. #24
    6x7=Dont Panic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32x18
    running Dues and if the salsa ring is inboard I have NO gap....i just checked. are you sure about the inboard position?
    My deus has a gap when I mounted a smaller ring (36t) on the outermost position. Its in the middle now and there is no gap. However its going to be moved to the outer position again because it looks much better and my spacer kit and boone cog should arrive shortly . So like you, when the ring is mounted inboard, I have no gap present.
    Herro prease

  25. #25
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    I have been struggling with this issue for some time and just came up with some new information playing in the garage last night. It seems that the Salsa rings are thicker at the chainring holes than some other things. So thick, in fact, that I can use the standard (non single ring) bolts. This allows the nut to fill most all of the diameter of the bolt hole in the chainring and serves to restrict the possibility of the ring moving on the spider. Using the longer bolt sets also looks like there is more "purchase" and a more robust setup.

    This also seems to explain why I had no problems like this when I was running the ring on the inside as the nut was filling the gap in the ring and extending into the spider enough to restrict the play.

    I also think fliping the ring so that the head of the bolt is seated in the countersink serves the same purpose here.

    I will evaluate this more after a couple of rides but I thought I might share this "discovery".

  26. #26
    ali'i hua
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32x18
    running Dues and if the salsa ring is inboard I have NO gap....i just checked. are you sure about the inboard position?

    yup. (damn- no pics for proof)

  27. #27

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    Good job! Longer nuts on the back was the answer !!!

    As someone mentioned use longer nuts on the back side with the shorter bolts. The result is the nut goes through the spider and the ring. This perfectly centers the ring and will not allow any play. I cranked a shorter bolt in the nut with loctite and hit the trails the next day. No slip on the ring at all.... this seems to be the answer.

    I just wonder in time now that all the pressure is on the nut as the ring is basically being supported by the four nuts if they will hold up. Oh well, for now I have a ring that is not splipping and a chain that is keeping the same tension 360 degrees.

    Thanks for all the answers !!!!

  28. #28
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    Beware

    Just so you guys know this is the same issue I was trying to describe a few weeks ago. The issue of the 1mm gap between the ring and the spider. I contacted Shimano to find out they have changed the diameter of the spider "lip" while maintaining the center to center of the bolt holes. The problem arises that you can just bolt on all these manufacturer rings but they don't mate well with the spider. I have already ruined one ring and crank with this setup. The bolts should never carry the load of pedaling, they should just hold together the interface of ring and spider. It's this connection which is designed to handle the extreme loads of pedaling uphill on a SS. Unfortunately I learned this the expensive way. I understand that with steel bolts you can make this work, but that's why they are trying to loosen under loads. It's not the right answer.

    I tried rings from 4 companys before I called Shimano tech and found the real problem.

    The funny thing is that even the old Shimano rings don't fit.
    Last edited by cjpavlov; 05-28-2005 at 06:07 AM.
    "Take it easy, if it's easy...take it again"

  29. #29
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    I think you just disproved your theory...

    Quote Originally Posted by cjpavlov
    Just so you guys know this is the same issue I was trying to describe a few weeks ago. The issue of the 1mm gap between the ring and the spider. I contacted Shimano to find out they have changed the diameter of the spider "lip" while maintaining the center to center of the bolt holes. The problem arises that you can just bolt on all these manufacturer rings but they don't mate well with the spider. I have already ruined one ring and crank with this setup. The bolts should never carry the load of pedaling, they should just hold together the interface of ring and spider. It's this connection which is designed to handle the extreme loads of pedaling uphill on a SS. Unfortunately I learned this the expensive way. I understand that with steel bolts you can make this work, but that's why they are trying to loosen under loads. It's not the right answer.

    I tried rings from 4 companys before I called Shimano tech and found the real problem.

    The funny thing is that even the old Shimano rings don't fit.
    If the old Shimano rings don't fit, then apparently nothing fits. I've used chainrings based on BCD for over 20 years; sometimes they fit perfectly with the spider, sometimes not, but I have never had a chainring fail or had a steel chainring nut come loose. Of course mine is a theory just like yours; and like rectal openings, every one has one and they usually stink

    1G1G, Brad

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    Comment removed.
    Last edited by Messenger; 12-14-2007 at 10:17 AM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger
    Hoping you are my NSOC friend.
    Not sure if that is directed at me since I started the thread or what the heck you are even talking about.

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