El Mariachi 27.5+?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    El Mariachi 27.5+?

    Just wondering if anyone has tried B+ wheels/tires on their El Mariachi? I am interested in giving this a try on my 2014 Ti El Mariachi.
    Last edited by live2play; 10-22-2016 at 08:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    I put a set of WTB Trailblazers on my el mar. No fitment issues with the 2.8s. I haven't had a chance to ride it yet but I don't expect anything problematic with the setup other than the huge increase in weight.

  3. #3
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    Mind posting a pic for me?

  4. #4
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    i fit a fat b nimble in the back, but didn't see the point in building up a wheelset since I already have a real fat bike.
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  5. #5
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    I was reading the frame info sheet for my El Mariachi the other day, looking up information on the alternator dropouts and I noticed Salsa specifically does not support using the El Mar for 27.5+ setups. Anyone know why? And for those who have run 27.5+ on one what problems, if any have you experienced?

  6. #6
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    Can you please send me the link where it refers to not supporting 27.5+?

  7. #7
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    I think that they state the geometry would change and make the bike not handle as designed. Certainly does not mean it cannot be done.

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    Mechanic at my LBS built a set of WTB Scrapers with the 2.8 Trailblazers....I tried them on my EM SS and they fit. Could not ride them due to brake's not fitting but I am planning on getting a set build soon.

    Can't see how the geometry would change enough to be significant the 27+ was very very close to the 29 in size...I run 2.4 RR so compared to a smaller tire it might be the same overall size....like the extra volume of air for sure.

    If you do it please post.....

    Also I did once find a picture on this site of a small blue EM with 27.5 + wheels fitted....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzydog View Post
    Mechanic at my LBS built a set of WTB Scrapers with the 2.8 Trailblazers....I tried them on my EM SS and they fit. Could not ride them due to brake's not fitting but I am planning on getting a set build soon.

    Can't see how the geometry would change enough to be significant the 27+ was very very close to the 29 in size...I run 2.4 RR so compared to a smaller tire it might be the same overall size....like the extra volume of air for sure.

    If you do it please post.....

    Also I did once find a picture on this site of a small blue EM with 27.5 + wheels fitted....
    When talking about tires people tend to forget they are dynamic, especially the bigger they get. A common term when talking car tires is "static load radius", this is the measurement of the tire/wheel under load. With bike tires this becomes a bit more difficult because people run such vastly different pressures, well outside the manufacturer's recommendations, and combine that with varied rider/gear weight.

    Basically what I'm getting at is that off the bike they may be close, but on the bike with a riders weight they may be noticeably different sizes.

  10. #10
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    Select the 2015 El mariachi framesheet from the list. It's in there in fine print of course. I also think it's listed on the El Mar page under the questions.

    Manuals & Instructions | Support | Salsa Cycles

  11. #11
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    They mention 27.5 (650b) not supported but no mention of 27.5+. They are referring to the normal sized 27.5 wheel.
    Salsa El Mariachi SS
    Salsa Vaya
    Lurch Fatbike

  12. #12
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    If you want to run 27.5+ you'll need to buy a pony rustler. If you attempt it in an EM you risk death and dismemberment of yourself, friends, and neighbors.
    You change your own flats? Support your LBS and pay them to instead.

  13. #13
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    El Mar 27.5+

    El Mar, Scrapper 45's, Trailblazer 2.8 rear and Trailboss 3.0 front.

    El Mariachi 27.5+?-em-midfat.jpg

  14. #14
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    Thanks for posting the pic... How does it ride?

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    Well I didn't die as some predicted....

    Have two rides in so far. I like it and it is fun.

    Running 15 lbs front and rear...the fat sort of rolls over everything, very cush ride, floats well crossing sandy washes....there is more momentum which can be good in tricky stuff.

    The the frame and the wheels are heavier than my Ti EM and slower on my regular loop probably due to the weight but it bombs down hill easier/better....I ride some rocky areas that on the 29 requires a lot of concentration to pick a line but this kind of rolls over anything. Perhaps less fatiguing for the upper body.

    Both bikes are geared 36 x 18 but the smaller diameter of the 27+ makes the effective gear a bit smaller...seems to work for me. I also lost just under a centimeter in ground clearance which has not been an issue so far.

    I usually go pretty hard and the route I ride most is not too technical so the 29 is better for that but the 27.5+ makes me look at other lines and other obstacles and I think "hey I should see if I can get up that".

    Glad I did it and it will be interesting to see which bike I end up riding more down the road....

  16. #16
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    Any pics of the clearance? Those 2.8's about the biggest that would fit?
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  17. #17
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    Very curious on this. I have the Ti El Mariachi with the alternator dropouts. Mine is a 2013. I wonder if this setup would work on that frame?

  18. #18
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    El Mariachi 27.5+?-20151016_223202.jpg


    chainstay clearance

  19. #19
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    that is roughly 5 mm. seat stay has about 6 or so. that is on a 2014 El Mariachi with the Alternator slid all the way forward. after taking it out on a dirt ride on Dry dusty single track, i will be moving the alternators back about half way. the rear was a bit to squirelly for me.


    Trailblazers on blunts

  20. #20
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    Nice pix killarbb. Looks about the same as mine. I am running my Trailblazers on the Scrapper 45 with the alternator about 1/2 way back.

    Ranger, I have a Ti EM and can try the 27.5's on the rear....BUT I am headed out of town till next week so it will be a while.

  21. #21
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    I'm really hopeful that the next iteration will feature a 27.5+ compatible titanium frame with all of the other great features we've come to love in the El Mar.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzydog View Post
    Nice pix killarbb. Looks about the same as mine. I am running my Trailblazers on the Scrapper 45 with the alternator about 1/2 way back.

    Ranger, I have a Ti EM and can try the 27.5's on the rear....BUT I am headed out of town till next week so it will be a while.
    Thanks....Really curious if that configuration will work. I have the 2013 version with alternator dropouts.

  23. #23
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    Any updates from folks trying this? I've got a 2014 El Mar Ti I'm thinking of converting. Curious how this might change the handling up front (steeper I'd think, but not by much).
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

  24. #24
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    i love the way mine rides. i did have to move the alternators back about halfway. the bike was super fast, just didnt feel the way i wanted it to with the wheel pushed all the way forward.

    grip for days

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by killarbb View Post
    i love the way mine rides. i did have to move the alternators back about halfway. the bike was super fast, just didnt feel the way i wanted it to with the wheel pushed all the way forward.

    grip for days
    Got any pics?


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  26. #26
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    here it is
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails El Mariachi 27.5+?-20151016_223055.jpg  


  27. #27
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    Thanks killarbb! In the earlier image you shared it looks like the tread profile is really squared off. Have you noticed this break traction much in a lean? Local trails here are super twisty and have a soft surface of moondust and/or pine needles so there's a lot of lean going on and side knobs are muy importante.
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

  28. #28
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    It has not broken free, even on the heavy leaf cover we have now. I ride at about 230 pounds and am running 16-18 psi so far.

  29. #29
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    FWIW I threw my rear wheel pictured above onto my Ti EM...fit was really about the same as on the steel bike...might be a tad more room if I moved the alternators forward further.

    Been alternating the steel mid-fat with the Ti straight 29....for the course I usually ride the 29 is faster BUT I have found several alternative rides that the straight 29 would probably not go....mostly due to significant deep-ish sand. The 27+ is actually more fun!

    Think I might replace the steel fork with one that will take a thru axle then I can run either bike with either wheel set.

    I also am contemplating selling one or both and getting a Ti 29+ as I think that would be my fultime bike.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzydog View Post
    Been alternating the steel mid-fat with the Ti straight 29....for the course I usually ride the 29 is faster BUT I have found several alternative rides that the straight 29 would probably not go....mostly due to significant deep-ish sand. The 27+ is actually more fun!
    Been thinking about the speed thing. I have the Ti EM but also have a rigid Fatback Corvus which currently has 4" Maxis Mammoths. The Mammoths roll decent, traction for days and are a ton of fun, but I'm certainly going slower (lot of rubber hitting the trail). Still it's fun and I don't miss the EM at all right now.

    I was wondering if I'd get most of the traction, and most of the big tire cushion out of the 27+ but at a lower speed penalty given the smaller contact patch. Anyone have a comparison between how their 27+ rides and a 4" fatty?
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

  31. #31
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    I'm thinking of a 27.5+ in the back, and I can see that the Trailblazer fits just fine. Anyone have eyes on the Trailboss? Or opinions is the Trailboss a good tire in the back end anyway?

  32. #32
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    Here's a few images to show fit. Both tires are Nobby Nic.
    The rear is a 2.8 while the front is a 3.0.
    They are both mounted on Nox Composites Farlow (29 internal).
    Mounted to a '14 El Mar Ti with 142 rear plates.
    Fork is a '14 Sid XX WC. There's no rub but it looks like less than 1mm clearance. With stretch it may rub. If I run this tire on here I'll put a Pike on a it clears just fine.
    El Mariachi 27.5+?-fork_1.jpg

    El Mariachi 27.5+?-fork_2.jpg

    El Mariachi 27.5+?-rearcs_1.jpg

    El Mariachi 27.5+?-rearcs_2.jpg
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

  33. #33
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    I've got an old 1&1/8th head tube El-Mar ti (probably 2011 or 12) set up rigid. Currently, I have Stans Arch 29er wheels and a Nobby Nic 2.25 in the rear and a Hans Dampf 2.35 in the Cromoto fork at the front.

    The 29er Nobby Nic is only 2.25 but, even so, it appears to be about the biggest 29er tyre my frame which will comfortably accept. I don't think the 2.35 Hans Dampf/Arch would fit. I would like to get more rear grip when I'm getting up the slippery, rooty bits on my local trails, so it's been useful to see what you guys have done with your bikes.

    Recently I've been reading about the development of the Cotic Solaris 2 on the Cotic website. I think you guys would find this very interesting.

    Cotic are now doing a WTB Asym i29 /Aysm i35 rim with WTB Trailblazer 2.8s tyres as an option on the Solaris, but they originally tested and liked the effect with the KOM i25 rims at both ends. I think for my riding a KOM/2.8 Trail Blazer rear-end would do just fine - (if it will fit). It seems some of you have put Trailblazers in with bigger rims so (on the face of it), it should work okay. I guess the only problem might be if my older ti frame was narrower than your modern swinging-dropout frames.

    If I can do it, I'd like to go with 27-30mm internal rims on the rear, and probably stick with a 29er wheel on the front - as my Cromoto 470mm fork has loads of room. I really like the Hans Dampt 2.35 29er so I might try a 30-35mm 29er rim. I would love it if Schalbe made a 2.6 or 2.8 version of the Hans Dampf.

    I wouldn't worry about Salsa are not endorsing 27.5 plus for the El-Mar. Their focus is on selling new bikes. Bike testing is expensive and time-consuming so it's entirely understandable that they are NOT inclined to go back and verify previous models for new wheel sizes. In their position, I'd also just say "NO", to ensure there was not come-back on me.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.ph...&thumb=1&stc=1
    Last edited by [email protected]; 12-29-2015 at 05:10 AM.

  34. #34
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    I'm guessing the Stans Hugo will be too wide at 52mm for the El Mar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpolism View Post
    I'm guessing the Stans Hugo will be too wide at 52mm for the El Mar?
    For the rear end - almost certainly, but there is huge choice of possible forks for your front end. Nothing to stop you having a monster wide front end and, say, a Hans Dampf 2.35 or maybe 2.8 trail blazer at the back for example.

  36. #36
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    Has the geometry of the chain/seat stays grown over the years? My El Mar is the 2009 version with the EBB. Hugo's are most definitely a no go, but I wonder if the WTB Scrapers with the trailblazers would fit. Earlier in this thread it was stated that it wasn't an issue, but those were newer models. Hopefully it'll fit my '12 Tower Pro/'14 Fox 32 fork without issue. My choices are limited with a straight 1 1/8 tube.

  37. #37
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    Your Suspension Fork choices are limited but any rigid fork will take a lot bigger tyre with no problem. My Salsa Cromoto straight steer q/r fork was 75 Uk pounds - (and probably the same in dollars cos we Brits get ripped off in conversion). I'm sorry I don't know the answers to your other questions. questions, but it sounds like you may be a little too optimistic. Cotic's new Solaris 2 frame is NOT the same thing as a legacy Salsa frame. You may have to reign-in your expectations. (Hey don't you Americans have a TV series called something simililar? - LOL)

    For the record I'm planning to go with a 27 or 30mm internal Easton Arc rim and Hans Dampf for the rear and I've yet to decide on a front rim and tyre but it will be a bit bigger. Good Luck.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpolism View Post
    Has the geometry of the chain/seat stays grown over the years? My El Mar is the 2009 version with the EBB.... Hopefully it'll fit my '12 Tower Pro/'14 Fox 32 fork without issue. My choices are limited with a straight 1 1/8 tube.
    late too this conversation, but my bike needs new rims. i have an 08/ebb frame, was planning on standard 29er rims, but this B+ thing is interesting. presently, my bike is mounted with 2.35" panaracers. i took a few (imprecise) measurements, looks like about 70mm between the chainstays at the widest point of the treads. the mounted tires are ~74cm tall. based on the article linked, the Trailblazers mounted to 45mm rims are 72.7cm tall, so about 6mm shorter in radius. looks like the chain stays widen to more like 74mm as you move that little closer to the axle. tire width from the article is 60mm at the tread and 71mm at the widest point of the casing. sounds like a tight fit, but doable. my manitou tower puts about 71m between those bulges, not sure how that would sit relative to the wide part of the tire casing....

    Project 27plus Part 2 - WTB Trailblazer 2.8 tires
    Last edited by kevrider; 02-21-2016 at 08:21 PM.
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  39. #39
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    Realize that you will also get some small amount of flex in the wheels tire as well and you may end up rubbing that rear chainstay. The narrower the rim for these plus tires, the more movement you'll get in the tire casing on hard cornering. Wider rims provide a greater platform that prevents some of this squirm, but does make for an overall wider tire profile in most cases. - this is one big reason I swapped for the Advocate, Hayduke
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdemars View Post
    Realize that you will also get some small amount of flex in the wheels tire as well and you may end up rubbing that rear chainstay. The narrower the rim for these plus tires, the more movement you'll get in the tire casing on hard cornering. Wider rims provide a greater platform that prevents some of this squirm, but does make for an overall wider tire profile in most cases. - this is one big reason I swapped for the Advocate, Hayduke
    Have you posted any pics of your Hayduke? I'm really interested in this bike.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Have you posted any pics of your Hayduke? I'm really interested in this bike.
    Not yet, as I literally just got the frame from FedEx yesterday. There is, however, an entire thread on this http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-29/haydu...il-973820.html

    There's also several reviews online which Google should help you find. While the Salsa may come out with something cool I'd be worried that they'll take 6 months to deliver as per usual... Also the mission of Advocate is pretty cool.
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdemars View Post
    Also the mission of Advocate is pretty cool.
    Who We Are
    nice! i'd never heard of them before, that's amazing. i'll have to keep them in mind the next time i want to buy a frame...
    In a world full of people, only some want to ride. Isn't that crazy?
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  43. #43
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    They lost me at press fit BB.

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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeeze View Post
    They lost me at press fit BB.
    It turned me off originally too, and honestly I still really wish they had gone with threaded. I ordered the thread together BB from Wheels Mfg so essentially now have a threaded bottom bracket. The only thing I had to press in was the headset.
    Overland : Hayduke : Hightower LT : Delirium : Piolet

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    2014 El Mariachi Boost Rear End?

    Has anyone machined/filed down their El Mariachi 142x12 Alternator dropouts to accommodate a boost rear hub? I would like to have just one 27.5+ wheelset to swap between my EM and Horsethief. I hate to sell the EM, it's classic that I know I will regret selling.

    While it may sound far-fetched, I would think that some as tried it...

    Thanks,

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDIDriver View Post
    Has anyone machined/filed down their El Mariachi 142x12 Alternator dropouts to accommodate a boost rear hub? I would like to have just one 27.5+ wheelset to swap between my EM and Horsethief. I hate to sell the EM, it's classic that I know I will regret selling.

    While it may sound far-fetched, I would think that some as tried it...

    Thanks,
    I wouldn't chance it, think that would make the dropout prone to failure.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

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