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  1. #1
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    New Model?

    Is Rocky Mountain planning a new 29er to squeeze between the Element and Instinct?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    If they were, I'd probably want to buy it. However, I don't see this happening, as the Element is a 120/100, and the Instinct is 140/140. For a smaller company like them, it might not be the best idea to create overlap and inter-brand competition.
    They aren't like Specialized or Santa Cruz who make both a short travel XC bike and a short travel trail bike, but arguably the Thunderbolt is their short travel trail offering.

    I think it is more likely for them to expand their hardtail lineup, or add alloy frame options to existing models (Slayer, Maiden) instead of creating all new bikes.
    Dropping into a trail

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    The 140 Instinct does trail duty pretty dang well, though. Not sure Id want to go down to a 120 bike when the Element is right there, too.

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    Great responses! Its funny that you mention Specialized and Santa Cruz (as those are the other brands Im looking at).

    I would really like to see a RM 29 short travel trail bike. If that doesnt happen, I may try to pounce on an Element.

    But I also may wait for a SC Tallboy refresh.

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    The RM C90 XCO is 100/100

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post
    The RM C90 XCO is 100/100
    Every other Element is 100/120. 68.7* head angle and a 439mm rear center.
    Compared to my late model Instinct (130/130 stock), that's about a degree steeper but 11mm shorter in the rear. It certainly is more of a climb-oriented bike, but it's nowhere near as XC race as the old one.
    Dropping into a trail

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    You might want to check out the Intense Primer 29. 130 front and rear. Rides great, climbs great.

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    Rocky will definitely make a bike for this category. They'd be crazy not to.

    Expect something 120mm with slack 66.5-67 hta and steeper sta... think Pivot Trail 429 and Ibis Ripley.

    This is the largest category of bikes for riders who own 1 bike at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Rocky will definitely make a bike for this category. They'd be crazy not to.

    Expect something 120mm with slack 66.5-67 hta and steeper sta... think Pivot Trail 429 and Ibis Ripley.

    This is the largest category of bikes for riders who own 1 bike at a time.
    But the Instinct gets the trail job done. On the same day I demo the Intense Primer and Instinct. I could barely notice the difference. The Instinct had jsut a little bit of pedal bob on steep climbs, I adjusted the frame and it was good to go.

    The difference was so minimal, that I ordered an Instinct because the Intense told me they dont know when the Primer will be back in stock. I called and a bike shop called. They dont know.

    I could see them making the Instinct a 130 bike or eventually replacing the regular instinct and keeping the Instinct BC. But I dont think they will have both the regular Insrinct and another trail bike.

    Another option could be what Intense does with the Sniper. They have the Sniper XC (100mm) and the Sniper Trail (120mm).

    So maybe RM will keep the Instinct and add 20mm to their XC bike.

    Element XC and Element Trail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston_29 View Post

    Element XC and Element Trail?

    OK so first off, you know full well that if it were based on the Element platform they would HAVE to call it the Element BC Edition.

    Moreover, I think Boston is right in the sense that the Instinct fills this role pretty darn well already. Ride-9 in the steeper settings and tune the suspension to be a little more 'XC'. You could even put a 210x50 shock in instead of a 210x55 and slap on a 130mm air spring in the 34. Personally I wouldn't but I guess you can do what you want. Melamed only beat like 500 people at NIMBY this year with his instinct in full steep, and I'm sure he could have picked the Element if he felt that platform would perform better.

    I don't think we'll see a release of this bike from Rocky for a while. Maybe when we get a full Element re-design they'll release it with two shock sizes like the Thunderbolt and Instinct (and a whole lot of other companies now too).

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    The Element is amazing as a "trail" bike. the rear end truly feels "bottomless" and with its lighter and more nimble frame over the instinct you can pedal for days without exhaustion.
    Sure its only 120mm front, but its so precise you can pick lines like a pro and you will never miss the 10mm in the fork. Like I said the rear feels like it has way more travel than it does.

    It is my go to bike for anything but Serious Enduro style riding. ( And I still reckon overall its probably quicker than my Slayer everywhere except super steep gnarly stuff)

    I have wanted to put a 130mm fork on it to see what it feels like, but just havent felt the need yet...

  12. #12
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    I really enjoy reading these types of discussions! But its the exact reason why I still cant decide between an Element and an Instinct.

    Is there any empirical evidence as to how the Instinct rides in its steepest setting? A majority of my riding is on moderately technical, twisty singletrack. Im thinking I would ride 90% of the time in the 9th position, but on the days with some downhill, I would flex to a more slack setting.

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    How much empirical evidence is there available to the public for how any bike rides? Haha.


    Personally, depending where you live I'd say get the instinct for general trail duty and the element if you wanna race/be lycra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j-t-g View Post
    How much empirical evidence is there available to the public for how any bike rides? Haha.


    Personally, depending where you live I'd say get the instinct for general trail duty and the element if you wanna race/be lycra.
    Id agree here, You can always get a light set of wheels for any more XC focused races. You're not sacrificing a whole lot of weight really.

    The Element is pretty lardy for a true XC weapon hence why I think its a anorexic Trail bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WRXJIM View Post
    The Element is amazing as a "trail" bike. the rear end truly feels "bottomless" and with its lighter and more nimble frame over the instinct you can pedal for days without exhaustion.
    Sure its only 120mm front, but its so precise you can pick lines like a pro and you will never miss the 10mm in the fork. Like I said the rear feels like it has way more travel than it does.

    It is my go to bike for anything but Serious Enduro style riding. ( And I still reckon overall its probably quicker than my Slayer everywhere except super steep gnarly stuff)

    I have wanted to put a 130mm fork on it to see what it feels like, but just havent felt the need yet...
    Saying the Element feels like it has "way more travel" than the 100mm that is does is misleading to anyone looking to make a purchase between the Element and Instinct. The Instinct is an excellent all day trail bike that still climbs very well and feels light under the rider.

    The Element on the other hand is much more an xc bike than a trail bike... just look at the hta. When the speed goes up it starts to get bucked around and bounced off line. Trail tires help but you can't take the xc out of this bike without making some significant changes. Again, tires help but for everyday trail duty look to the Instinct!

    Rocky will without a doubt launch a bike between the current Element and Instinct.... I'm not sure when but I'm sure they're working on something and would likely get it to market as quickly as possible.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Saying the Element feels like it has "way more travel" than the 100mm that is does is misleading to anyone looking to make a purchase between the Element and Instinct. The Instinct is an excellent all day trail bike that still climbs very well and feels light under the rider.

    The Element on the other hand is much more an xc bike than a trail bike... just look at the hta. When the speed goes up it starts to get bucked around and bounced off line. Trail tires help but you can't take the xc out of this bike without making some significant changes. Again, tires help but for everyday trail duty look to the Instinct!

    Rocky will without a doubt launch a bike between the current Element and Instinct.... I'm not sure when but I'm sure they're working on something and would likely get it to market as quickly as possible.
    This is horse shit. You obviously haven't ridden an Element. It doesn't get bucked around on any trails. The limiting factor would be jumping it. There is not a trail you can ride that the element will get "bucked around".

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    This is horse shit. You obviously haven't ridden an Element. It doesn't get bucked around on any trails. The limiting factor would be jumping it. There is not a trail you can ride that the element will get "bucked around".
    Hate to say it but I agree with Jason and it is feedback that we get from some Element owners when comparing bikes in their fleet/when they try other stuff. By the time you get that 3th square edge hit in a row at speed on a tech trail, you better believe the element isn't going to hold a line that well.

    And don't tell me I haven't ridden an element, lol. I haven't ridden an element in the east coast, where maybe it IS enough bike to not get bucked around on any trails. Not where I am, and not in Rocky's own back yard.


    Actually now I feel a bit silly because I feel like I've just invested a bunch of time replying to a bait comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j-t-g View Post
    Hate to say it but I agree with Jason and it is feedback that we get from some Element owners when comparing bikes in their fleet/when they try other stuff. By the time you get that 3th square edge hit in a row at speed on a tech trail, you better believe the element isn't going to hold a line that well.

    And don't tell me I haven't ridden an element, lol. I haven't ridden an element in the east coast, where maybe it IS enough bike to not get bucked around on any trails. Not where I am, and not in Rocky's own back yard.


    Actually now I feel a bit silly because I feel like I've just invested a bunch of time replying to a bait comment.
    Any trail where the pedals are engaged the element will not get bucked around. You're talking about descending trails that the Instinct would be perfect for then, so why would someone want a bike between the element and an Instinct then? The element is a short travel trail bike.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

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    Of course a bike with a slacker HTA and more travel will absorb that stuff (square edges hits). Its been said before the Element requires more care and attention with line choice, but I will absolutely say it handles trails its geo would suggest you not even consider, it also pedals so well that any time you lose negotiating a tricky line choice section you will gain back in spades on a flatter section.

    If you have the option to take both for a test ride I recommend it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrxjim View Post
    if you have the option to take both and put them in your garage, do it. I recommend it.

    ftfy

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    This is horse shit. You obviously haven't ridden an Element. It doesn't get bucked around on any trails. The limiting factor would be jumping it. There is not a trail you can ride that the element will get "bucked around".
    Look, you might think my comment was horseshit but the object of my comment was to set straight the bias of your comment saying the Element feels bottomless.

    The Element absolutely is not bottomless. This is not an ideal trail bike as you stated and this is coming from a guy who's put over 500 miles on a Rocky Mountain Element and close to a thousand miles on an Instinct.

    I dont have a dog in this fight... I like the Element a lot.

    I just think forums like these give voice to those who should probably read more and post less.

    Those deliberating over what "trail bike" to purchase might read your opinion/post and decide on the Element as a bottomless trail bike only to later fine out its actually a snappy quick footed xc bike.

    Just go ride the Yeti sb100 and an Element back-to-back... hell, my Ibis Ripley gets bucked around on many of the trails I ride and the Element makes the Ripley feel like a Cadillac.

    A bikes ability to be "trail" worthy has less to do with the terrain and more to do w the speed the bike is traveling the terrain... I could ride the Element down a world cup DH segment and make it through rubber side down... but it would be at a significantly slower pace than a proper trail bike and the same goes for the proper trail bike compared with a DH rig...

    So if you never get bucked around on your trails riding the Element than your trails are more on the xc side of things or you're going at a much slower speed. Both are fine... I love smoother flowy xc trails!

    Even Rocky Mountain doesn't consider the Element a "bottomless trail bike" otherwise they would have listed it in the "trail" category on their website.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Look, you might think my comment was horseshit but the object of my comment was to set straight the bias of your comment saying the Element feels bottomless.

    The Element absolutely is not bottomless. This is not an ideal trail bike as you stated and this is coming from a guy who's put over 500 miles on a Rocky Mountain Element and close to a thousand miles on an Instinct.

    I dont have a dog in this fight... I like the Element a lot.

    I just think forums like these give voice to those who should probably read more and post less.

    Those deliberating over what "trail bike" to purchase might read your opinion/post and decide on the Element as a bottomless trail bike only to later fine out its actually a snappy quick footed xc bike.

    Just go ride the Yeti sb100 and an Element back-to-back... hell, my Ibis Ripley gets bucked around on many of the trails I ride and the Element makes the Ripley feel like a Cadillac.

    A bikes ability to be "trail" worthy has less to do with the terrain and more to do w the speed the bike is traveling the terrain... I could ride the Element down a world cup DH segment and make it through rubber side down... but it would be at a significantly slower pace than a proper trail bike and the same goes for the proper trail bike compared with a DH rig...

    So if you never get bucked around on your trails riding the Element than your trails are more on the xc side of things or you're going at a much slower speed. Both are fine... I love smoother flowy xc trails!

    Even Rocky Mountain doesn't consider the Element a "bottomless trail bike" otherwise they would have listed it in the "trail" category on their website.

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    You mean ride more? I have more than 500 miles on my Element in the past month. I guess trails in Brevard North Carolina, Damascus Virginia, and Marquette and Ishpeming Michigan are smooth flow trails lol.

    It's definitely not a bottomless trail bike, but it's more bike than 85 pct of mountain bikers can actually ride to it's limits.

    If you ride 160 and I ride 100 and I get to the bottom faster how can your bike be faster?
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    You mean ride more? I have more than 500 miles on my Element in the past month. I guess trails in Brevard North Carolina, Damascus Virginia, and Marquette and Ishpeming Michigan are smooth flow trails lol.

    It's definitely not a bottomless trail bike, but it's more bike than 85 pct of mountain bikers can actually ride to it's limits.

    If you ride 160 and I ride 100 and I get to the bottom faster how can your bike be faster?
    Glad we both agree it's not bottomless!

    I'm not sure what the point of your reply was... my reply was to clear the misunderstanding that the bike is bottomless and doesn't get buck around on "any trail".

    Not sure if it was you or one of the other forum users who said it but regardless, this bike is not a categorized trail bike. It's a cross-country bike and it doesn't matter what percentage of bikers wouldn't ride to its limits... its intended purpose is cross country, that's evident as per the Rocky Mountain website. No question the Instinct is the better all conditions trail bike.

    And maybe you do ride more than me but not real sure how that matters... Link to strava if you're such a badass?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post

    It's definitely not a bottomless trail bike, but it's more bike than 85 pct of mountain bikers can actually ride to it's limits.

    100% of mountain bikes are more bike than 85% of mountain bikers can actually ride to the limit of the bike...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Glad we both agree it's not bottomless!

    I'm not sure what the point of your reply was... my reply was to clear the misunderstanding that the bike is bottomless and doesn't get buck around on "any trail".

    Not sure if it was you or one of the other forum users who said it but regardless, this bike is not a categorized trail bike. It's a cross-country bike and it doesn't matter what percentage of bikers wouldn't ride to its limits... its intended purpose is cross country, that's evident as per the Rocky Mountain website. No question the Instinct is the better all conditions trail bike.

    And maybe you do ride more than me but not real sure how that matters... Link to strava if you're such a badass?!

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    This post was about a model in between the element and instinct not about finding a better trail bike. We know the Instinct is the better ALL condition bike. Most people only ride in certain conditions. The element can handle any trail or riding limit of most people. For the people who can take the Element beyond it's limit, there is the instinct. There is not a large enough demographic of riders who can out ride the Element, but the Instinct would hold back to make a new model.

    The Element isn't bottomless that's a throw around phrase. What the element is though is the bike between xc and trail. It's in a category of it's own and anybody fortunate enough to get to ride an Element on burly trails is laughing at people on 140 bikes.

    I don't know how riding my bike a lot makes me a bad ass. I thought it just makes me someone who rides my bike a lot. It's easy to do when you live in a van with your bike and dog.

  26. #26
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    Id love to see a new 120 bike.

    The Instinct is a great bike, but If I want more suspension the Altitude is my favorite RM bike. Just saying. I rode the Element and dismissed it as an XC bike.

    I currently ride an SB100.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ejj View Post
    Id love to see a new 120 bike.

    The Instinct is a great bike, but If I want more suspension the Altitude is my favorite RM bike. Just saying. I rode the Element and dismissed it as an XC bike.

    I currently ride an SB100.
    I too went from the Element to an SB100. The Yeti is so much more a trail bike than the Element... the Rocky lineup will really benefit from a more modern geometry 120mm bike between the element and Instinct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    I too went from the Element to an SB100. The Yeti is so much more a trail bike than the Element... the Rocky lineup will really benefit from a more modern geometry 120mm bike between the element and Instinct.
    Benefit who? The company, or the very few people who will actually buy one? It's easy to tell someone how they should run their business with no actual knowledge of the business.

    You went from a 100mm rear travel bike to a 100mm rear travel bike and are saying that it's much more trail bike? That shows how silly you are. That tells me you need a slacker head angle not more travel. Just like most people already know. You're disproving your own theory.

  29. #29
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    My 2 cents....

    The 2019 Element covers XC beyond expectations, XCO Fox Factory 32 100/100 and others being Fox Factory 34 120/100, with the addition of the ride9 settings a wide variety of geometry is covered. In full slack it will rail downhill runs like a race horse, but it is limited by the 100mm rear shock of just how knarly it can get without getting a bit bouncy. Given I did just say that, if your bike suspension is not properly tuned for your weight you are doing yourself and the bike a huge disservice in what it can and cant do comfortably and instill you with the confidence to ride it harder.

    The same goes for the rest of Rockies lineup, Thunderbolt, Instinct , Pipeline Etc..

    Rocky doesn't need to add to its lineup to fill a gap that the Ride9 already does with geometry adjustment.

    Honestly your talking about roughly .39 of a inch or increased travel and like others have said for the most part the general rider is not good enough rider to notice it..

    I have raced/rode my Element in Texas , New Mexico, Oregon, my goal is to be fast and smooth, not to fly off 3 ft drops and dodge 2 ft boulders. I'll leave that to trail bikes with more travel to absorb those types of hits..
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Benefit who? The company, or the very few people who will actually buy one? It's easy to tell someone how they should run their business with no actual knowledge of the business.
    Not sure where you are coming from. Seems that a lot of companies are selling bikes in that shortish travel trail category. Evil Following, SC Tallboy, pivot trail 429 (or is it 429 trail?) Ibis Ripley to name a few. They are definitely selling a lot of them.

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    If you are riding your Element in trails so tough that it bottoms out constantly, you have the wrong bike for the trails.

    Consider a Scott bike with the lockout. Instantly turn it into a hard tail, a XC full suspension bike or a trail bike.

    I had a Genius back in the day and loved it. There is nothing like locking out your suspension instantly when climbing.

    I dont ride Scott anymore (that sounds wrong) because there seem to be 0 dealers in the New England area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston_29 View Post
    Consider a Scott bike with the lockout. Instantly turn it into a hard tail, a XC full suspension bike or a trail bike.

    I had a Genius back in the day and loved it. There is nothing like locking out your suspension instantly when climbing..

    2019 Elements come with a Rear remote lockout, matter of fact the lockout lever is manufactured for dual output and can be set up to lock out front and rear at the same time (just pointed out to me yesterday).
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post
    My 2 cents....
    Honestly your talking about roughly .39 of a inch or increased travel and like others have said for the most part the general rider is not good enough rider to notice it..
    Clarification, 20mm is closer to .8 inches of travel, or 20%.

    Being "Good enough rider" depends on the riding style and the line choice as to whether they would benefit or notice the difference. A fast rider with "bad line choice" would benefit from additional travel. Not everybody rides with an XC or endurance mindset either. Some people enjoy taking the bumpier lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    Clarification, 20mm is closer to .8 inches of travel, or 20%.

    "Good enough" depends on the riding style an the line choice as to whether they would benefit or notice the difference. A fast rider with "bad line choice" would benefit from additional travel. Not everybody rides with an XC or endurance mindset either. Some people enjoy taking the bumpier lines.
    Yes, you are correct when referring to 20mm of additional travel, I was referring to each 10mm of change and should have reflected that ..

    "A fast rider with a bad line choice" would also benefit greatly riding the correct bike for the job and or being a good enough rider to choose the right line
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post

    "A fast rider with a bad line choice" would also benefit greatly riding the correct bike for the job and or being a good enough rider to choose the right line
    Probably true, but selling bikes is often about want over need. Also, if you look at the 120 as an alternative to the 140 (as opposed to the Element) it fits your statement pretty well. Again, a lot of people enjoy taking the hard line, in part so they build skills for more difficult trails.


    Nobody is saying someone would likely have a 100mm and a 120mm bike or a 120mm bike and a 140mm bike. Rather they might have a 100mm and 140+mm bike or have only a 120mm bike. Personally I think the Instinct is good enough to be an only bike. For other I'm sure he Element would be a great only bike too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Benefit who? The company, or the very few people who will actually buy one? It's easy to tell someone how they should run their business with no actual knowledge of the business.

    You went from a 100mm rear travel bike to a 100mm rear travel bike and are saying that it's much more trail bike? That shows how silly you are. That tells me you need a slacker head angle not more travel. Just like most people already know. You're disproving your own theory.
    Say whatever you want pal... you're on the wrong side of this conversations. I know damn well what I'm talking about, have ample experience with many different bikes and terrain. The Element is not a "trail" bike as far as "bike categories" are concerned and Rocky will 100% have a 120mm bike at some point... they'd be crazy not to. As previously mentioned, it's the single largest category of bikes sold right now and would be a huge benefit to Rocky and their customer base.

    If you've never ridden the sb100, it punches well above it's weight.

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    Where I am (and also Rocky's #1 market).... 120mm bikes don't sell as well as the next category up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Say whatever you want pal... you're on the wrong side of this conversations. I know damn well what I'm talking about, have ample experience with many different bikes and terrain. The Element is not a "trail" bike as far as "bike categories" are concerned and Rocky will 100% have a 120mm bike at some point... they'd be crazy not to. As previously mentioned, it's the single largest category of bikes sold right now and would be a huge benefit to Rocky and their customer base.

    If you've never ridden the sb100, it punches well above it's weight.
    If you want to have an intelligent discussion please read and comprehend what people post, including yourself.

    This post is about a bike in between the element and instinct. Nobody is calling the element a trail bike. What they are saying is that you don't need a bike in between the element and instinct because the element is the bike "in between". A bike in between those wouldn't be a trail bike anyways. More of a marathon xc bike. So you're not even talking the same language right now.

    Nobody cares what bikes you have ridden either. You said you bought the sb100 because it was better than the element. It's the SAME travel lol. So clearly you didn't need more travel. Or a trail bike. This is YOUR OWN statement.

    What some of us are saying is, to fill the gap between the element and the instinct. Push the Element harder. Or use the instinct because it can also be used like a "120" bike for the right person.

    I ride for a Rocky MTN dealer, I now have an Instinct c70 that I can ride whenever I want. I rode it yesterday on the same trails as my Element and it was all over the place on the climbs. I have to lower the bar height and steepen the ride 9. It's definitely not faster on pedaling trails. Today I'm going to ride up the mountain and come down. I'm expecting it to be faster down, but will it suck going up? I'm about backing up my words. So I'll ride the Instinct for a bit, some days I'll ride them back to back.

    If I could figure out how to post pictures I would

    I'm sure some people see the Detroit in my username and assume where I ride. My riding experience is based out of Tucson Arizona, Brevard North Carolina, Marquette and Copper Harbor Michigan, and all up and down the east coast, Bentonville, North Georgia. I live in a van and travel so I see all the trails and all the bikes. Any trail a guy would grab his 140 bike and under the Element is faster. 140 is where I'll say the Element tops out with a good rider. Of course there are trails you need 160 and all that but that is not the average trail.

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    The element is a great bike, I would love to borrow one for an endurance series race I have entered for this Fall. I fear that if Rocky doesn't add a 120 bike that they may turn the Element into the 120 bike leaving it a little less of a race rocket. Granted you can long fork it to 120 and mess with the ride 9 settings to steepen the HTA, which is a very nice feature. However, the bike reach, STA , reach, suspension curve, etc aren't optimal for every ride 9 setting. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that a bike like the SB100 without ride 9 can be more optimized as a short travel trail bike. The SC Tallboy (currently 110mm travel), is another example of a bike targeted as a short travel trail bike. SC came out with the Blur which is only 10mm less travel, but it is optimized as and XC/marathon race rocket. That being said, XC racers are some of the best riders on any type of trail and can make any bike look good.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post
    2019 Elements come with a Rear remote lockout, matter of fact the lockout lever is manufactured for dual output and can be set up to lock out front and rear at the same time (just pointed out to me yesterday).
    That is awesome. Would be sweet if future Instincts come with that.

    Scott always gets so much hate in the reviews here in America for having the remote lockout, but I always thought it was great. I never read a good reason to not have one, except for the "additional maintenance" - whatever, I can deal with a few extra minutes of maintenance.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    If you want to have an intelligent discussion please read and comprehend what people post, including yourself.

    This post is about a bike in between the element and instinct. Nobody is calling the element a trail bike. What they are saying is that you don't need a bike in between the element and instinct because the element is the bike "in between". A bike in between those wouldn't be a trail bike anyways. More of a marathon xc bike. So you're not even talking the same language right now.

    Nobody cares what bikes you have ridden either. You said you bought the sb100 because it was better than the element. It's the SAME travel lol. So clearly you didn't need more travel. Or a trail bike. This is YOUR OWN statement.

    What some of us are saying is, to fill the gap between the element and the instinct. Push the Element harder. Or use the instinct because it can also be used like a "120" bike for the right person.
    LaneDetroitCity, stop trolling me bro. If you "ride for a Rocky MTB dealer" then you know a 120mm bike is coming. So either you're full of it and don't know what's coming and just have a major Element hard'on or.... your sponsor hasn't clued you in. Either way, you get the "Element fan boi" merit badge!

    I can see Rocky keeping the Element for the xc crowd (diminishing with the versatility of longer travel 29ers) and introduce a more capable short travel 29er trail bike slotted in below the Instinct.

    More people than ever are coming to mountain biking for the first time. These people aren't shredders who need a 140mm+ bike but could use a little more stability and forgiveness of a slacker less twitchy bike in the 120mm area.

    There are also those with racing back ground who no longer want to get rattled and jarred around on the Element while out on a proper trail ride and only occasionally show up for race day where the Instinct might not be quit as responsive, light weight or competitive...

    I really enjoyed my time on the Element and Instinct. After riding both I see room for a bike with more modern geometry... I'm currently riding the new Ibis Ripley and if Rocky came to market with a bike like that I'd be all over it!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston_29 View Post
    That is awesome. Would be sweet if future Instincts come with that.
    The carbon Instinct frame has a hole above the rear shock for the Fox Live Valve, i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to fit a rear shock with lockout if thats what you like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    LaneDetroitCity, stop trolling me bro. If you "ride for a Rocky MTB dealer" then you know a 120mm bike is coming.
    He is full of it and he IS trolling you.... but I'd say there are very, very few people who actually work at/ride for Rocky dealers that know that a 120mm bike is coming, other than an abstract concept/prototype of a 120mm bike. If you KNOW specifics on the 120mm bike that is coming, you probably shouldn't be talking about it here.

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    well there is another 29er coming and that's the new Slayer....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    LaneDetroitCity, stop trolling me bro. If you "ride for a Rocky MTB dealer" then you know a 120mm bike is coming. So either you're full of it and don't know what's coming and just have a major Element hard'on or.... your sponsor hasn't clued you in. Either way, you get the "Element fan boi" merit badge!

    I can see Rocky keeping the Element for the xc crowd (diminishing with the versatility of longer travel 29ers) and introduce a more capable short travel 29er trail bike slotted in below the Instinct.

    More people than ever are coming to mountain biking for the first time. These people aren't shredders who need a 140mm+ bike but could use a little more stability and forgiveness of a slacker less twitchy bike in the 120mm area.

    There are also those with racing back ground who no longer want to get rattled and jarred around on the Element while out on a proper trail ride and only occasionally show up for race day where the Instinct might not be quit as responsive, light weight or competitive...

    I really enjoyed my time on the Element and Instinct. After riding both I see room for a bike with more modern geometry... I'm currently riding the new Ibis Ripley and if Rocky came to market with a bike like that I'd be all over it!
    So because I'm a shop ambassador I get to talk to the CEO of Rocky? Lol. Stop trying to make yourself sound cool. Ill be meeting the rep in a few weeks and I'll ask him though. I know of several bikes coming from other brands that I don't speak about. If you are provided information that isn't public, you don't post it on MTBR. Unless you want to burn bridges.

    Even if there is a 120mm bike coming it would just be an evolution of the Element using the new tech available that allows 120 bikes to ride as efficient as 100mm bikes of old. It won't be a trail bike. The majority of people want to be able to pedal their bike.

    If anyone is calling the SB100 a short travel trail bike then the Element is too. It does everything the SB100 does and has two bottles for people who actually ride their bike and need a drink.

    All I do is race. I've never been bounced around on the Element. You're talking jibberish. I got bounced around on my Sworks Epic and Top fuel. You do not get bounced around on the element, that's the genesis of our whole discussion saying the Element is the bike for an XC racer who doesn't want to get bounced around.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    So because I'm a shop ambassador I get to talk to the CEO of Rocky? Lol. Stop trying to make yourself sound cool. Ill be meeting the rep in a few weeks and I'll ask him though. I know of several bikes coming from other brands that I don't speak about. If you are provided information that isn't public, you don't post it on MTBR. Unless you want to burn bridges.

    Even if there is a 120mm bike coming it would just be an evolution of the Element using the new tech available that allows 120 bikes to ride as efficient as 100mm bikes of old. It won't be a trail bike. The majority of people want to be able to pedal their bike.

    If anyone is calling the SB100 a short travel trail bike then the Element is too. It does everything the SB100 does and has two bottles for people who actually ride their bike and need a drink.

    All I do is race. I've never been bounced around on the Element. You're talking jibberish. I got bounced around on my Sworks Epic and Top fuel. You do not get bounced around on the element, that's the genesis of our whole discussion saying the Element is the bike for an XC racer who doesn't want to get bounced around.
    Again, Element and SB100 are different rides. Im glad you love your Element. It is a great race bike that can be comfortably ridden for more that racing. But it still has that XC feel in the rear suspension.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_trail_biker View Post
    Granted you can long fork it to 120 and mess with the ride 9 settings to steepen the HTA, which is a very nice feature. .
    From what I know, speaking of 2019 and newer Elements...ONLY the 2019 XCO is 100/100, the REST of the Element line is Forked at 120mm with 100 mm rear.
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    The element looks like a very capable XC rig, but it's not a 'trail bike'. Even in it's slackest mode you still have a ~69 HTA and pretty short reach. I get that some people can push smaller bikes past their point of design, and some people can make really big bikes climb fast. But to your average rider, the element is not a 'trail bike'. It has to do with geo just as much as travel. The element may have the same rear travel as the sb100 but they are very different bikes. I think it's awesome that we are seeing short travel bikes with trail geo. Not everyone wants to race XC, a 100-120 bike that's longer and slacker than an XC bike is definitely more fun when you're trying to have 'fun'.

    Fwiw I only found myself here because I'm trying to find intel on that 29" slayer of the future. So I'm probably not the most informed about the other end of the spectrum these days.

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    Felix Burke just won the 2019 BC Bike Race with an Element. Running 120mm upfront, at a plush 69psi. With Maxxis Aspens at 18-19psi.

    And BCBR is well above your common XC terrain. This proves the Element is still a rocket at 100mm or 120mm, regardless.

    I doubt Rocky is concerned about a missing category.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorbackMTB View Post
    I doubt Rocky is concerned about a missing category.
    Yeah, their bikes are so capable but I think the market/industry is moving toward longer travel bikes...

    My guess is they beef up the Instinct a bit and make room for bike in the short travel trail category.

    I for one would be stoked on a slightly longer travel, slacker, legit "BC Edition" Element type of bike!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorbackMTB View Post
    Felix Burke just won the 2019 BC Bike Race with an Element. Running 120mm upfront, at a plush 69psi. With Maxxis Aspens at 18-19psi.

    And BCBR is well above your common XC terrain. This proves the Element is still a rocket at 100mm or 120mm, regardless.

    I doubt Rocky is concerned about a missing category.
    So you are saying that on the trails everyone claims you need 140, a guy on his Element beat a guy on an SB100? On Rocky's home trails, in a race they sponsored? Seems like the element is doing just fine.

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