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  1. #1
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    New Model?

    Is Rocky Mountain planning a new 29íer to squeeze between the Element and Instinct?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    If they were, I'd probably want to buy it. However, I don't see this happening, as the Element is a 120/100, and the Instinct is 140/140. For a smaller company like them, it might not be the best idea to create overlap and inter-brand competition.
    They aren't like Specialized or Santa Cruz who make both a short travel XC bike and a short travel trail bike, but arguably the Thunderbolt is their short travel trail offering.

    I think it is more likely for them to expand their hardtail lineup, or add alloy frame options to existing models (Slayer, Maiden) instead of creating all new bikes.

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    The 140 Instinct does trail duty pretty dang well, though. Not sure Iíd want to go down to a 120 bike when the Element is right there, too.

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    Great responses! Itís funny that you mention Specialized and Santa Cruz (as those are the other brands Iím looking at).

    I would really like to see a RM 29Ē short travel trail bike. If that doesnít happen, I may try to pounce on an Element.

    But I also may wait for a SC Tallboy refresh.

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    The RM C90 XCO is 100/100

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleinTexas View Post
    The RM C90 XCO is 100/100
    Every other Element is 100/120. 68.7* head angle and a 439mm rear center.
    Compared to my late model Instinct (130/130 stock), that's about a degree steeper but 11mm shorter in the rear. It certainly is more of a climb-oriented bike, but it's nowhere near as XC race as the old one.

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    You might want to check out the Intense Primer 29. 130 front and rear. Rides great, climbs great.

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    Rocky will definitely make a bike for this category. They'd be crazy not to.

    Expect something 120mm with slack 66.5-67 hta and steeper sta... think Pivot Trail 429 and Ibis Ripley.

    This is the largest category of bikes for riders who own 1 bike at a time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Rocky will definitely make a bike for this category. They'd be crazy not to.

    Expect something 120mm with slack 66.5-67 hta and steeper sta... think Pivot Trail 429 and Ibis Ripley.

    This is the largest category of bikes for riders who own 1 bike at a time.
    But the Instinct gets the trail job done. On the same day I demo the Intense Primer and Instinct. I could barely notice the difference. The Instinct had jsut a little bit of pedal bob on steep climbs, I adjusted the frame and it was good to go.

    The difference was so minimal, that I ordered an Instinct because the Intense told me they dont know when the Primer will be back in stock. I called and a bike shop called. They dont know.

    I could see them making the Instinct a 130 bike or eventually replacing the regular instinct and keeping the Instinct BC. But I dont think they will have both the regular Insrinct and another trail bike.

    Another option could be what Intense does with the Sniper. They have the Sniper XC (100mm) and the Sniper Trail (120mm).

    So maybe RM will keep the Instinct and add 20mm to their XC bike.

    Element XC and Element Trail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston_29 View Post

    Element XC and Element Trail?

    OK so first off, you know full well that if it were based on the Element platform they would HAVE to call it the Element BC Edition.

    Moreover, I think Boston is right in the sense that the Instinct fills this role pretty darn well already. Ride-9 in the steeper settings and tune the suspension to be a little more 'XC'. You could even put a 210x50 shock in instead of a 210x55 and slap on a 130mm air spring in the 34. Personally I wouldn't but I guess you can do what you want. Melamed only beat like 500 people at NIMBY this year with his instinct in full steep, and I'm sure he could have picked the Element if he felt that platform would perform better.

    I don't think we'll see a release of this bike from Rocky for a while. Maybe when we get a full Element re-design they'll release it with two shock sizes like the Thunderbolt and Instinct (and a whole lot of other companies now too).

  11. #11
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    The Element is amazing as a "trail" bike. the rear end truly feels "bottomless" and with its lighter and more nimble frame over the instinct you can pedal for days without exhaustion.
    Sure its only 120mm front, but its so precise you can pick lines like a pro and you will never miss the 10mm in the fork. Like I said the rear feels like it has way more travel than it does.

    It is my go to bike for anything but Serious Enduro style riding. ( And I still reckon overall its probably quicker than my Slayer everywhere except super steep gnarly stuff)

    I have wanted to put a 130mm fork on it to see what it feels like, but just havent felt the need yet...

  12. #12
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    I really enjoy reading these types of discussions! But itís the exact reason why I still canít decide between an Element and an Instinct.

    Is there any empirical evidence as to how the Instinct rides in its steepest setting? A majority of my riding is on moderately technical, twisty singletrack. Iím thinking I would ride 90% of the time in the 9th position, but on the days with some downhill, I would flex to a more slack setting.

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    How much empirical evidence is there available to the public for how any bike rides? Haha.


    Personally, depending where you live I'd say get the instinct for general trail duty and the element if you wanna race/be lycra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j-t-g View Post
    How much empirical evidence is there available to the public for how any bike rides? Haha.


    Personally, depending where you live I'd say get the instinct for general trail duty and the element if you wanna race/be lycra.
    Id agree here, You can always get a light set of wheels for any more XC focused races. You're not sacrificing a whole lot of weight really.

    The Element is pretty lardy for a true XC weapon hence why I think its a anorexic Trail bike.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRXJIM View Post
    The Element is amazing as a "trail" bike. the rear end truly feels "bottomless" and with its lighter and more nimble frame over the instinct you can pedal for days without exhaustion.
    Sure its only 120mm front, but its so precise you can pick lines like a pro and you will never miss the 10mm in the fork. Like I said the rear feels like it has way more travel than it does.

    It is my go to bike for anything but Serious Enduro style riding. ( And I still reckon overall its probably quicker than my Slayer everywhere except super steep gnarly stuff)

    I have wanted to put a 130mm fork on it to see what it feels like, but just havent felt the need yet...
    Saying the Element feels like it has "way more travel" than the 100mm that is does is misleading to anyone looking to make a purchase between the Element and Instinct. The Instinct is an excellent all day trail bike that still climbs very well and feels light under the rider.

    The Element on the other hand is much more an xc bike than a trail bike... just look at the hta. When the speed goes up it starts to get bucked around and bounced off line. Trail tires help but you can't take the xc out of this bike without making some significant changes. Again, tires help but for everyday trail duty look to the Instinct!

    Rocky will without a doubt launch a bike between the current Element and Instinct.... I'm not sure when but I'm sure they're working on something and would likely get it to market as quickly as possible.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Saying the Element feels like it has "way more travel" than the 100mm that is does is misleading to anyone looking to make a purchase between the Element and Instinct. The Instinct is an excellent all day trail bike that still climbs very well and feels light under the rider.

    The Element on the other hand is much more an xc bike than a trail bike... just look at the hta. When the speed goes up it starts to get bucked around and bounced off line. Trail tires help but you can't take the xc out of this bike without making some significant changes. Again, tires help but for everyday trail duty look to the Instinct!

    Rocky will without a doubt launch a bike between the current Element and Instinct.... I'm not sure when but I'm sure they're working on something and would likely get it to market as quickly as possible.
    This is horse shit. You obviously haven't ridden an Element. It doesn't get bucked around on any trails. The limiting factor would be jumping it. There is not a trail you can ride that the element will get "bucked around".

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    This is horse shit. You obviously haven't ridden an Element. It doesn't get bucked around on any trails. The limiting factor would be jumping it. There is not a trail you can ride that the element will get "bucked around".
    Hate to say it but I agree with Jason and it is feedback that we get from some Element owners when comparing bikes in their fleet/when they try other stuff. By the time you get that 3th square edge hit in a row at speed on a tech trail, you better believe the element isn't going to hold a line that well.

    And don't tell me I haven't ridden an element, lol. I haven't ridden an element in the east coast, where maybe it IS enough bike to not get bucked around on any trails. Not where I am, and not in Rocky's own back yard.


    Actually now I feel a bit silly because I feel like I've just invested a bunch of time replying to a bait comment.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-t-g View Post
    Hate to say it but I agree with Jason and it is feedback that we get from some Element owners when comparing bikes in their fleet/when they try other stuff. By the time you get that 3th square edge hit in a row at speed on a tech trail, you better believe the element isn't going to hold a line that well.

    And don't tell me I haven't ridden an element, lol. I haven't ridden an element in the east coast, where maybe it IS enough bike to not get bucked around on any trails. Not where I am, and not in Rocky's own back yard.


    Actually now I feel a bit silly because I feel like I've just invested a bunch of time replying to a bait comment.
    Any trail where the pedals are engaged the element will not get bucked around. You're talking about descending trails that the Instinct would be perfect for then, so why would someone want a bike between the element and an Instinct then? The element is a short travel trail bike.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  19. #19
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    Of course a bike with a slacker HTA and more travel will absorb that stuff (square edges hits). Its been said before the Element requires more care and attention with line choice, but I will absolutely say it handles trails its geo would suggest you not even consider, it also pedals so well that any time you lose negotiating a tricky line choice section you will gain back in spades on a flatter section.

    If you have the option to take both for a test ride I recommend it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrxjim View Post
    if you have the option to take both and put them in your garage, do it. I recommend it.

    ftfy

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    This is horse shit. You obviously haven't ridden an Element. It doesn't get bucked around on any trails. The limiting factor would be jumping it. There is not a trail you can ride that the element will get "bucked around".
    Look, you might think my comment was horseshit but the object of my comment was to set straight the bias of your comment saying the Element feels bottomless.

    The Element absolutely is not bottomless. This is not an ideal trail bike as you stated and this is coming from a guy who's put over 500 miles on a Rocky Mountain Element and close to a thousand miles on an Instinct.

    I dont have a dog in this fight... I like the Element a lot.

    I just think forums like these give voice to those who should probably read more and post less.

    Those deliberating over what "trail bike" to purchase might read your opinion/post and decide on the Element as a bottomless trail bike only to later fine out its actually a snappy quick footed xc bike.

    Just go ride the Yeti sb100 and an Element back-to-back... hell, my Ibis Ripley gets bucked around on many of the trails I ride and the Element makes the Ripley feel like a Cadillac.

    A bikes ability to be "trail" worthy has less to do with the terrain and more to do w the speed the bike is traveling the terrain... I could ride the Element down a world cup DH segment and make it through rubber side down... but it would be at a significantly slower pace than a proper trail bike and the same goes for the proper trail bike compared with a DH rig...

    So if you never get bucked around on your trails riding the Element than your trails are more on the xc side of things or you're going at a much slower speed. Both are fine... I love smoother flowy xc trails!

    Even Rocky Mountain doesn't consider the Element a "bottomless trail bike" otherwise they would have listed it in the "trail" category on their website.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Look, you might think my comment was horseshit but the object of my comment was to set straight the bias of your comment saying the Element feels bottomless.

    The Element absolutely is not bottomless. This is not an ideal trail bike as you stated and this is coming from a guy who's put over 500 miles on a Rocky Mountain Element and close to a thousand miles on an Instinct.

    I dont have a dog in this fight... I like the Element a lot.

    I just think forums like these give voice to those who should probably read more and post less.

    Those deliberating over what "trail bike" to purchase might read your opinion/post and decide on the Element as a bottomless trail bike only to later fine out its actually a snappy quick footed xc bike.

    Just go ride the Yeti sb100 and an Element back-to-back... hell, my Ibis Ripley gets bucked around on many of the trails I ride and the Element makes the Ripley feel like a Cadillac.

    A bikes ability to be "trail" worthy has less to do with the terrain and more to do w the speed the bike is traveling the terrain... I could ride the Element down a world cup DH segment and make it through rubber side down... but it would be at a significantly slower pace than a proper trail bike and the same goes for the proper trail bike compared with a DH rig...

    So if you never get bucked around on your trails riding the Element than your trails are more on the xc side of things or you're going at a much slower speed. Both are fine... I love smoother flowy xc trails!

    Even Rocky Mountain doesn't consider the Element a "bottomless trail bike" otherwise they would have listed it in the "trail" category on their website.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
    You mean ride more? I have more than 500 miles on my Element in the past month. I guess trails in Brevard North Carolina, Damascus Virginia, and Marquette and Ishpeming Michigan are smooth flow trails lol.

    It's definitely not a bottomless trail bike, but it's more bike than 85 pct of mountain bikers can actually ride to it's limits.

    If you ride 160 and I ride 100 and I get to the bottom faster how can your bike be faster?
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    You mean ride more? I have more than 500 miles on my Element in the past month. I guess trails in Brevard North Carolina, Damascus Virginia, and Marquette and Ishpeming Michigan are smooth flow trails lol.

    It's definitely not a bottomless trail bike, but it's more bike than 85 pct of mountain bikers can actually ride to it's limits.

    If you ride 160 and I ride 100 and I get to the bottom faster how can your bike be faster?
    Glad we both agree it's not bottomless!

    I'm not sure what the point of your reply was... my reply was to clear the misunderstanding that the bike is bottomless and doesn't get buck around on "any trail".

    Not sure if it was you or one of the other forum users who said it but regardless, this bike is not a categorized trail bike. It's a cross-country bike and it doesn't matter what percentage of bikers wouldn't ride to its limits... its intended purpose is cross country, that's evident as per the Rocky Mountain website. No question the Instinct is the better all conditions trail bike.

    And maybe you do ride more than me but not real sure how that matters... Link to strava if you're such a badass?!

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post

    It's definitely not a bottomless trail bike, but it's more bike than 85 pct of mountain bikers can actually ride to it's limits.

    100% of mountain bikes are more bike than 85% of mountain bikers can actually ride to the limit of the bike...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason04 View Post
    Glad we both agree it's not bottomless!

    I'm not sure what the point of your reply was... my reply was to clear the misunderstanding that the bike is bottomless and doesn't get buck around on "any trail".

    Not sure if it was you or one of the other forum users who said it but regardless, this bike is not a categorized trail bike. It's a cross-country bike and it doesn't matter what percentage of bikers wouldn't ride to its limits... its intended purpose is cross country, that's evident as per the Rocky Mountain website. No question the Instinct is the better all conditions trail bike.

    And maybe you do ride more than me but not real sure how that matters... Link to strava if you're such a badass?!

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
    This post was about a model in between the element and instinct not about finding a better trail bike. We know the Instinct is the better ALL condition bike. Most people only ride in certain conditions. The element can handle any trail or riding limit of most people. For the people who can take the Element beyond it's limit, there is the instinct. There is not a large enough demographic of riders who can out ride the Element, but the Instinct would hold back to make a new model.

    The Element isn't bottomless that's a throw around phrase. What the element is though is the bike between xc and trail. It's in a category of it's own and anybody fortunate enough to get to ride an Element on burly trails is laughing at people on 140 bikes.

    I don't know how riding my bike a lot makes me a bad ass. I thought it just makes me someone who rides my bike a lot. It's easy to do when you live in a van with your bike and dog.

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