A ride, recently: Where "mountain bikers" fear to tread.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    A ride, recently: Where "mountain bikers" fear to tread.

    I've been singing the praises of this ride for 15+ years. How beautiful the rock, how gorgeous the big-picture views, how obscenely, absurdly challenging the riding.





    Scott, Scott and I rode it on Friday. 10+ hours out on the rock. Not one other soul encountered at any point. This despite the fact that you could practically see the dust cloud of the overcrowded trails around Moab from where we were.





    From that I can only conclude that "mountain bikers" aren't into this sort of thing. Which is just boggling to me.





    Their loss, on many levels.





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    As long as I'm able to swing a leg over a bike I will yearn to touch my tires to this rock, and thus to be both humbled and inspired.


    Thanks for checkin' in.


  2. #2
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    Looks like fun, love all that rock. Hell?

  3. #3
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    Beautiful pics as always Mike. Looks like you can see white trail markers on the rock so this is a well plotted trail, maybe just too challenging for many riders?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've been singing the praises of this ride for 15+ years. How beautiful the rock, how gorgeous the big-picture views, how obscenely, absurdly challenging the riding.

    Scott, Scott and I rode it on Friday. 10+ hours out on the rock. Not one other soul encountered at any point. This despite the fact that you could practically see the dust cloud of the overcrowded trails around Moab from where we were.

    From that I can only conclude that "mountain bikers" aren't into this sort of thing. Which is just boggling to me.
    Right, Mike. Nobody likes this kinda riding, this kinda scenery, this kinda challenge. Nobody here on MTBR, anyway. This is a mountain biking forum -- you just don't get it, do you? I don't know why you continue with this type of off-topic post. And yet you do. One after another. Ho hum. Who cares.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Their loss, on many levels.
    Ya think? You coulda PM'd me, brutha. It's only about a 20 hr drive (x2) for me. Sheesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    As long as I'm able to swing a leg over a bike I will yearn to touch my tires to this rock, and thus to be both humbled and inspired.
    No doubt. Meanwhile, unless or until you spill the beans about specific amazing venues like the one in question to your *ahem* friends, we'll just keep going to that overcrowded gathering spot, that world famous dust cloud the masses refer to as Moab believing we're having a good time.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Thanks for checkin' in.
    No no -- thank YOU! And dammit, I mean it. Thank you, Mike.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Looks like fun..
    No it doesn't! Beautiful, yes. Fun? Hardly.

  6. #6
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    I would love to have just a quarter of the body strength riders like you have to do that stuff!!! It might be too late in my life, but to me, that is the "untouchable" that would keep me off of a place like that...

    ...but, i will also get strong enough to do the things I do want to do...and I will keep living vicariously through your pics/and stories as well for inspiration!!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    until you spill the beans about specific amazing venues like the one in question

    I've spilled the beans on this one for literally more than a decade. Kicked 'em all over the 4 corners of the internet. It's called 5 miles of hell -- check my past posts on the subject.

    In 15+ years of riding out there, always in the "high" season of spring or fall, I've never, not once, seen a mountain bike that wasn't with our group, nor even a track to say that one had been there.

    Didn't mean to suggest that one couldn't have a good time in Moab. More suggesting that you can have a good, maybe even better time, without needing to pay to park, nor pay to camp, nor get in line to ride a trail, then get in line to drive into town, so that you can get in line to eat dinner.

    The mountain bike "demographic", as much as you could say there was one, used to be creative and resourceful. Now that there is such a demographic they seem closer to lemmings.

  8. #8
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    Why is this in the 29er bike thread and not passion or somewhere else?
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Why is this in the 29er bike thread and not passion or somewhere else?

    Take your trolling elsewhere, son.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Take your trolling elsewhere, son.
    Can you at least put 29er somewhere in your post? I think i even see a 27.5 bike in one of the pictures. I think maybe you put this in the wrong section. This section is to discuss 29er bikes not for you to brag about some ride you did. What bike did you ride? Was it a 29er?

    Btw, my dad died many years ago, dad.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Can you at least put 29er somewhere in your post? I think i even see a 27.5 bike in one of the pictures. I think maybe you put this in the wrong section. This section is to discuss 29er bikes not for you to brag about some ride you did. What bike did you ride? Was it a 29er?

    Btw, my dad died many years ago, dad.

    By "son" i was abbreviating "sonny boy", which is another way of saying "sphincter police". Thank god you're here -- we were having such a good time without you.

    2 of the 3 bikes on this post have 29" wheels. If you want to prevail upon the mods to create a 2/3 forum -- mostly 29" with a sprinkle of 27.5" -- I'm sure they'll listen.

    Meanwhile, sit down.

  12. #12
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    By "son" i was abbreviating "sonny boy", which is another way of saying "sphincter police". Thank god you're here -- we were having such a good time without you.

    2 of the 3 bikes on this post have 29" wheels. If you want to prevail upon the mods to create a 2/3 forum -- mostly 29" with a sprinkle of 27.5" -- I'm sure they'll listen.

    Meanwhile, sit down.
    So this post is in the 29 forum because you were riding 29ers? Im thinking it would be better served in Passion where you can belittle mountain bikers while simultaneously bragging about yourself. Probably get more views there too. Just curious, were the wheels on your 29ers, hooked or hookless beads?
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've spilled the beans on this one for literally more than a decade. Kicked 'em all over the 4 corners of the internet. It's called 5 miles of hell -- check my past posts on the subject.

    In 15+ years of riding out there, always in the "high" season of spring or fall, I've never, not once, seen a mountain bike that wasn't with our group, nor even a track to say that one had been there.

    Didn't mean to suggest that one couldn't have a good time in Moab. More suggesting that you can have a good, maybe even better time, without needing to pay to park, nor pay to camp, nor get in line to ride a trail, then get in line to drive into town, so that you can get in line to eat dinner.

    The mountain bike "demographic", as much as you could say there was one, used to be creative and resourceful. Now that there is such a demographic they seem closer to lemmings.
    I'd love to experience that crushing humility lesson sometime (gawd, I think I would, anyway); I'll have to look back through your posts for clues about exactly what/where it is.

    Meanwhile if you ever make it to Oregon, skip Bend and head for Oakridge where you'll find 350 miles of amazing singletrack through towering old growth groves, breathtaking alpine meadows, along pristine, crystal clear rivers and through prehistoric cavernous valleys where head-high ferns leave you wondering if dinosaurs might be about. All very photogenic.

    You like raw terrain, you say? Here's a ride that's as much like riding through DW (designated Wilderness) as I know: Bunchgrass Ridge. Bunchgrass makes up a significant portion of the second half of this inspiring tale by Paul LaCava. Dude is amazing -- his route from Bend to Oakridge included over 110 miles and he did it in a day. I measured the distance -- a couple years later I followed Paul's tracks but took twice as long to complete the ride -- still brutal. Anyway I hope you'll follow the link to check Paul's photos out.

    Bunchgrass Ridge is just a scratch at the local goods. There's plenty near Oakridge to keep an eager rider busy for at least a couple weeks without repeating plus leave them aching to come back. (Please keep this between us.) If you ever plan to get out this way, please let me know. I'll ask you to build me a set of wheels so you can drop them off, write the adventure off as a business trip. Plus I enjoy introducing friends to my favorite places on the planet.
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  14. #14
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    Awesome pics! Looks like an amazing ride and a truly technical challenge. Glad you had an amazing ride. I just don't get why you need to disparage all other mountain bikers. If you can ride that, clean most of it, and have fun doing it, that's great!

    The trail description: To envision how tough this trail is, imagine the toughest, trickiest 50 feet of Gooseberry Mesa. Add a tricky steep spot from The Portal. Add that same Portal section again, but make it uphill. Repeat over and over again for 7 miles. Throw in the deepest sand pits from Slickrock, but make them longer, softer, and deeper. Add a few of Poison Spider's worst sand-to-wall, wall-to-sand transitions. Get the idea?

    Way above my skill set and fitness though. I picked up mountain biking 4 years ago at the age of 42. I was out of shape and weighed 240. Riding has built up my fitness and I'm now 175. Started DH last year and have begun practicing my basic skills, so I'm getting comfortable in the air and with more technical riding. Uphill technical is still a real challenge. I'm better in the down. Most black diamond climbs are just beyond that line of fun challenge to too much hike a bike. Double black is starting to be not terrifying going DH. I would definitely put myself as slightly above average for both fitness and skill, but will be one of those hanging out in the over crowded trails of Moab, as they are challenging and fun for me, but 5 Miles of Hell, would be a long walk with my bike. Followed by a pretty crappy ride back. But maybe one day, but not if I think I'm going to have to do it with people with your attitude, who would likely judge how much I have to hike a bike.

    So maybe instead of insulting people, most of whom this trail would overwhelm, and for many who would be capable, not be their cup of tea, recognize that you are an elite rider and just say "hey, look at this great trail I ride, if you're an expert rider who likes intensely technical climbing and descending back to back to back, check it out, it's just a hop and a skip from the other must rides of Moab"

    Anyway, nice pics! Looks like you had a blast!

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPunchCholla View Post
    Glad you had an amazing ride. I just don't get why you need to disparage all other mountain bikers. If you can ride that, clean most of it, and have fun doing it, that's great!

    You made some great points. Unfortunately you started from a flawed assumption: that I (or my riding partners) can clean most of it. No way -- not even close. Nor did I ever suggest anything of the sort. I'm an average rider in pretty much every way, but as I age I'm backsliding even at that. Going out to 5MOH is one way of maintaining the little skill I have left.

    The fact is that even with Danny Macaskill type skills you'd still walk big chunks of 5MOH. It's that hard.

    We joked as we rode that as sanitized as any/every other trail out there is becoming, with cheater rocks and cheater lines and that sort of nonsense, that short of bringing a D9, artillery, or C4 out there, no one is ever going to be able to clean most or even many of the moves. It's really that brilliantly, diabolically hard.

    And that challenge is what we like about it. It equalizes *everything* -- no matter how strong, how fit, how skilled, or how nice your bike is, you will be humbled on this trail. Humbled is good.

    Cheers,

    MC

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    Sparty-

    Bunchgrass is good. Rode it ~10 years ago or so. Hit it at peak flowers and a day after a rain, so the dust was nonexistent as we chased each other up, over, and down.

    Also raced the 'puff in (I think) '96 or so. Nice backyard ya got there.

    Will look you up next time I'm in the neighborhood.

    Cheers,

    MC

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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    I would love to have just a quarter of the body strength riders like you have to do that stuff!!!

    Strength is one small part of the equation. I don't have any either -- I am reliant on low gearing, an upright position, supple suspension, and big squishy tires to clean what I can out there. My two compadres are younger and far, far fitter than I was at their age, and as such they attempt, and ride, lots more than I ever could.

    Don't talk yourself out of it before trying. Worst case you'll walk -- everyone does -- and while doing so you get to enjoy, embrace the place even more.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You made some great points. Unfortunately you started from a flawed assumption: that I (or my riding partners) can clean most of it. No way -- not even close. Nor did I ever suggest anything of the sort. I'm an average rider in pretty much every way, but as I age I'm backsliding even at that. Going out to 5MOH is one way of maintaining the little skill I have left.

    The fact is that even with Danny Macaskill type skills you'd still walk big chunks of 5MOH. It's that hard.

    We joked as we rode that as sanitized as any/every other trail out there is becoming, with cheater rocks and cheater lines and that sort of nonsense, that short of bringing a D9, artillery, or C4 out there, no one is ever going to be able to clean most or even many of the moves. It's really that brilliantly, diabolically hard.

    And that challenge is what we like about it. It equalizes *everything* -- no matter how strong, how fit, how skilled, or how nice your bike is, you will be humbled on this trail. Humbled is good.

    Cheers,

    MC
    Fair enough. I did make some flawed assumptions, it sounds like. Just something in the way I read your post sounded derogatory of other riders, whereas your explanation makes me want to give it a shot next time I'm out there.

    Though there is a tipoing point where enough things I can't clear and I get frustrated, with myself. My problem, not the trails. Happy trails!

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Sparty-

    Bunchgrass is good. Rode it ~10 years ago or so. Hit it at peak flowers and a day after a rain, so the dust was nonexistent as we chased each other up, over, and down.

    Also raced the 'puff in (I think) '96 or so. Nice backyard ya got there.

    Will look you up next time I'm in the neighborhood.

    Cheers,

    MC
    Awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Subscribed. Thank you!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Strength is one small part of the equation. I don't have any either -- I am reliant on low gearing, an upright position, supple suspension, and big squishy tires to clean what I can out there. My two compadres are younger and far, far fitter than I was at their age, and as such they attempt, and ride, lots more than I ever could.

    Don't talk yourself out of it before trying. Worst case you'll walk -- everyone does -- and while doing so you get to enjoy, embrace the place even more.
    oh yeah...no shame in walking here. I am getting better about giving some rides/lines a chance, rather than just counting it out...and riding things multiple times also helps build the strength, wisdom, and knowledge

    ...and keep the ride reports coming. As I mentioned in many other posts, if you made a coffee table book of your pics and comments, I would buy

    it is beyond me that people would see these as bragging and separatist...too bad for them!!!
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  21. #21
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    Nice photos and ride report. T Y

    Makes me want to go out and push harder looking for more challenge on those dang steep rocks we can find around here. There's plenty nearby to keep me busy without that kind of venue.... sadly.
    Before (and after) more practice staying up on two wheels, I may just go shopping to get those knee protectors. They look nicer than my recent damage.

    Thanks again for hosting a bright spot among the many threads here !
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post


    How far didja get on this part?

    That stuff looks awesome... soooooo many options. Sooooo many ways to succeed... or fail.

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  23. #23
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    I enjoyed the pics. Thanks. Near the northern city where I once lived there are two trails that maybe are similar in beauty and skill level to what you show and describe here. Just like your experience, I never see any riders on those trails. You can't clear them, and they are humbling. One of the trails has nearly gone back to nature because of lack of use.

    It is very refreshing to ride trails like this. The chest beating KOM, who is the speediest, stuff has to stay at home. It is hard to quantify to others when you say "I cleared 1% more than last time" as an accomplishment, unless they have been there. It is also the highlight of my trip back there each year. I can't wait to take hours to ride a few miles while pushing and dragging my bike the rest.

    Last year we did meet a few hikers on a rock outcropping. The location is sort of the pinnacle of the ride. It is the highest point, and it is surrounded by the most impossible sections. The hikers were nice, but they did ask "how did you get those bikes up here". I think they may have been worried that their favorite hiking place was now easily accessible by bike. They seemed relived when I answered "we certainly didn't ride them here" while laughing.

    ... oh yea ... and last year I did it on a 29er.

  24. #24
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    Yes! That kind of place defines what I call a day of "playing on the bike". No structured nothing.

    I don't know a single young rider that is into ground-level tech challenging terrain. To be fair, it's tough, since 5MOH type of terrain is tough to find.

    And your pics still suck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Why is this in the 29er bike thread and not passion or somewhere else?
    Hmm you seem to be absent from all the other non 29er posts on the 29er forum. Why?

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    How far didja get on this part?

    IIRC the Scott pictured didn't get much farther than that. Other Scott eventually cleaned the whole section (it gets chunkier above what's pictured) after maybe 6 or 7 tries.

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    Just a bit of history for you Mike. You may already know this though. The yrs are a bit fuzzy as I'm 68 now. But, around 85 or so a man named Dick Brass, who lived in Helper, Ut was asked by a group to lay out a gnarly mtb course they could race. So Dick laid out 5moh on his old xr200. Dick was a big little man. Prob 275lbs. They obviously got they're wish and more! haha. Myself and a few friends rode it the following spring. At the signout box at the end as you enter Iron wash had three entries. 1st was Dick, 2nd was a group of 4 motos that had to abandon 2 Ktms over the coming winter. It was too tough and they needed to get out. We never saw the bikes as we were the 3rd group to sign the sheet in the box. Over the yrs I prob rode 5moh 10 times. In those days there were no bailouts like there are now. You went in you were in! We used to help Dick by carrying paint to touch up as needed. We used to joke that if you got lost, just look up and back over your shoulder and there is the trail climbing up. haha. Major props to you and your buds on the adventure ride as you obviously knew what you were getting into. Lived in Carbondale for 30yrs and follow your picture/prose adventures with interest. Keep em coming. Dick is the man who laid out the red, green and pink trails also.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim22 View Post
    Just a bit of history for you Mike.

    Thanks for that. Glad to hear you've experienced it.

    There is at least one sign out there that references the "Dick Brass Trails".

    There are now 3 "escape" routes from 5MOH. Haven't yet needed them!

    Although, that said, at the crux descent (if you're riding it clockwise) we found half of a (moto) handlebar. The trees around the rim of that feature are decorated with broken bits of moto -- a radiator, many fenders, many brake levers, several pegs and shifters. The half handlebar we found was *right there* in the trail. We could not figure out how they would have gotten that guy/gal out of there, other than to have someone ride out, get a new bar, and ride it in to them...

  29. #29
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    haha, yup. On one of our rides my buddy seized his Cr250. We stashed the bike, packed him out and went back 2wks later with a new topend, rebuilt it on the trail and rode out. Bummer to hear that people leave they're trash on the trail like that

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Why is this in the 29er bike thread and not passion or somewhere else?
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Take your trolling elsewhere, son.
    No, he is right, this is a passion post, not a 29er post.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Why is this in the 29er bike thread and not passion or somewhere else?
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    No, he is right, this is a passion post, not a 29er post.
    And this is just a duplicate of an existing post. Closed.
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