Norshore trails threatened- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    No good Norshore trails threatened

    so I wrote to the District Of North Van to press for a quick resolution of a small park issue, and got this broad and sweeping response. Ah [email protected] We're working on it, many thanks to LeeL and Brodiegrrl and many more behind the scenes....

    "The use of Mountain View Park by mountain bikers has seriously and adversely impacted this park. The same is true for other active recreational areas where mountain biking has been allowed. Mountain Biking and other standard recreational activities including hiking are simply not compatible. It is like forcing a square peg into a round hole - like mixing fire and water.

    Mountain biking may be a wonderful sport, however, it requires special designated areas away from residential areas. There are plenty such places on the North Shore including in the so called recreational hinterland.

    The District Council made a serious and altogether costly mistake when they accommodated mountain biking in the present designated areas for it is a no win situation that can only lead to endless and unnecessary confrontations between bikers and the public. Not to mention that it is also extremely expensive.

    I have and will continue to press for a strategic, a more practical and more cost effective solution. This means that I will continue to push to develop areas within GVRD and/or provincial government owned or administrated lands that are more suitable for this otherwise wonderful sport.

    Yours truly,

    Ernie Crist (city counsellor)

  2. #2
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    I've read other articles that indicated that Ernie Crist was very anti mountain bike.

    "...it is a no win situation that can only lead to endless and unnecessary confrontations between bikers and the public."

    It is interesting that he writes this, everyone I see in the forest including hikers, trail runner and dog walkers is friendly and happy. In all the time I've been riding over there I've NEVER seen a confrontation between a biker and any member of the public.

  3. #3
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    totally agree and

    On Sunday, passed two heaps of dog poop on the sidewalk pushing up the hill, saw only 2 very pleasant hikers, and at the pond, 3 teenagers smoking dope at pondside. Now there's some excellent recreational forest use, Mr. Crist. Square peg in round hole maybe? Nah, those are responsible residents.

    His lack of comprehension of buffer zones, parking, and recreation are decidedly skewed. Well, IHMO.

    Jim

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC.
    so I wrote to the District Of North Van to press for a quick resolution of a small park issue, and got this broad and sweeping response. Ah [email protected] We're working on it, many thanks to LeeL and Brodiegrrl and many more behind the scenes....

    "The use of Mountain View Park by mountain bikers has seriously and adversely impacted this park. The same is true for other active recreational areas where mountain biking has been allowed. Mountain Biking and other standard recreational activities including hiking are simply not compatible. It is like forcing a square peg into a round hole - like mixing fire and water.

    Mountain biking may be a wonderful sport, however, it requires special designated areas away from residential areas. There are plenty such places on the North Shore including in the so called recreational hinterland.

    The District Council made a serious and altogether costly mistake when they accommodated mountain biking in the present designated areas for it is a no win situation that can only lead to endless and unnecessary confrontations between bikers and the public. Not to mention that it is also extremely expensive.

    I have and will continue to press for a strategic, a more practical and more cost effective solution. This means that I will continue to push to develop areas within GVRD and/or provincial government owned or administrated lands that are more suitable for this otherwise wonderful sport.

    Yours truly,

    Ernie Crist (city counsellor)
    You know what's expensive - soccer fields with their maintenance! Also, these soccer games generate massive abouts of traffic and lots of street parking problems in NorthVancouver and yet we never hear of local residents flaming soccer moms. You know what else is expensive - my bike parts which I buy from Council's constituents....puts a little more economic impact on the commercial sector than soccer shoes.

    Anyways, there's a promising conference coming to North Vancouver in mid-August where all these issues and more are going to be put on the table - thanks to Lee and Sharon for getting involved in this too.

  5. #5
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    "FEBRUARY 25, 2004 -- NEWMARKET, Ontario (BRAIN)--Suppliers and retailers in Canada are getting a chance to tell the Bicycle Trade Association of Canada (BTAC) just what they think the three-year-old organization should be doing.

    The association recently sent out a survey--by mail and email--soliciting suggestions from all segments of Canada's bicycle industry, said Janet O'Connell, BTAC's executive director. Non-association members also are encouraged to fill out the survey here.

    With its annual trade show on sound financial footing after three years of operation, O'Connell said it's time to aggressively define its role in the Canadian industry to take it beyond that of a trade show organizer.

    "We want to find out what the industry's perception of BTAC is and what they want us to do," she said. "This is going to be a turning point for BTAC. It's an opportunity for everyone in the industry to have their say and tell us what they feel we should be doing."

    O'Connell said a third party consultant is tabulating the findings and that the results will help create a five-year strategic plan.

    As an incentive to complete the survey, BTAC will hold a drawing to send two people to the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup in Calgary this summer. Surveys must be returned by March 5. BTAC's annual trade show begins with an outdoor demo Sept. 11, with ExpoCycle 2004 set for Sept. 12-14."

    OH OH, I've got a great suggestion for the surveyors - how about more of the industry who profits from trail use give back to trail access lobbying instead of just leaving it to the bikers!!

  6. #6
    Kilted Cyclist
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    I have never had a problem with any hikers before. We have always greeted each other. I think there are more education to be done with some of the riders out there. There are enought riders out there that have no respect to the natures or other users. They just have no concept of respecting other users, including fellow bikers.

  7. #7
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    Serious Update!!!

    The District of North Vancouver Council meet every Monday at 7:00pm. At this meeting Ernie Crist will be presenting a motion;
    REASON FOR REPORT:

    When the mountain biking issue was dealt with by Council, it was with the understanding that the accommodation of mountain bikers on existing District parks including parking etc. would be temporary since there is an inherent and irreconcilable conflict between this sport and the pedestrian use of District parks. The nature of mountain biking is such that those fundamental contradictions cannot be resolved under any circumstances.

    It is for this reason that Council gave instruction to prepare a Strategic Plan for the relocation of mountain biking. Council was told that such a Plan would be ready towards the end of 2003. This was later changed to 2004, and later still to the Fall of 2004 when a Strategic Plan centering around the relocation of mountain biking to more suitable areas and away from existing residential areas in the District would be presented to Council.

    This is not true. Referring to the June 26th Council meeting where this was brought up;

    MINUTES of the Special Meeting of the Council for The Corporation of the District of North Vancouver held in the Council Chamber the Municipal Hall, 355 West Queens Road, North Vancouver, B.C. on Monday, June 23, 2003, commencing at 7:09 p.m.

    http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/...s/cm030623.htm

    3. the initiation of a Recreational Strategic Study be authorized, with an appointed Task Force to develop strategies and recommendations for sustainable recreation and mountain biking at Fromme Mountain and the mountain areas of DNV, and to include parking and staging provisions, as well as environmental management guidelines. This process includes a multi-jurisdictional review of mountain biking on the North Shore with GVRD, BC Parks, District of West Vancouver, North Shore Mountain Bike Association, Grouse Mountain Resort, Seymour Mountain Resorts, and Cypress Mountain Resorts to identify sites with developed park infrastructure and site conditions that support downhill mountain biking, and may support private/public economic opportunities;

    5. a Mountain View Park neighbourhood meeting during July 2003 be initiated to discuss recreational and environmentally sustainable trail management options for the park, and to address neighbourhood issues relating to mountain biking, trail impacts and ecosystem degradation.

    Councillor Crist is lumping Mountain View Park in with the larger recreational study. Two public meetings and one open house to address mountain view park has been conducted.

    http://www.dnv.org/upload/pcdocsdocuments/[email protected]!.htm

    The Final Preferred OPtion:

    incorporates the public feedback received and presents the best possible alternative which responds to the identified issues and which balances the wishes of the community and park users.

    At this point we wish to support the 'Final Preferred Option' based on the majority of users input. Once this area is addressed the larger issue of the Alpine Recreational Study and Mountain Biking on Mt. Fromme can be addressed.

    We appreciate your support and look forward to your participation in the future of Mountain Biking on Mt. Fromme.


    be part of the solution! Jim

  8. #8
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    Geez. I didn't hear anyone at the open house who thought it would be a problem sharing one trail between all park users. Why gather public input and not listen to it?

    As I said on Duncan's thread...

    There's a great quote on the cover of the North Vancouver Recreation Commission's Outdoor Pursuits guide where it invites you to "discover the fabulous network of hiking or mountain biking trails on the North Shore"

    Maybe you could ask Crist why the rec commission is encouraging "endless and unnecessary confrontations between bikers and the public".
    Is ibuprofen considered a recreational drug?

  9. #9
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    This is all about parking isn't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimC.
    The District of North Vancouver Council meet every Monday at 7:00pm. At this meeting Ernie Crist will be presenting a motion;
    REASON FOR REPORT:

    When the mountain biking issue was dealt with by Council, it was with the understanding that the accommodation of mountain bikers on existing District parks including parking etc. would be temporary since there is an inherent and irreconcilable conflict between this sport and the pedestrian use of District parks. The nature of mountain biking is such that those fundamental contradictions cannot be resolved under any circumstances.

    It is for this reason that Council gave instruction to prepare a Strategic Plan for the relocation of mountain biking. Council was told that such a Plan would be ready towards the end of 2003. This was later changed to 2004, and later still to the Fall of 2004 when a Strategic Plan centering around the relocation of mountain biking to more suitable areas and away from existing residential areas in the District would be presented to Council.

    This is not true. Referring to the June 26th Council meeting where this was brought up;

    MINUTES of the Special Meeting of the Council for The Corporation of the District of North Vancouver held in the Council Chamber the Municipal Hall, 355 West Queens Road, North Vancouver, B.C. on Monday, June 23, 2003, commencing at 7:09 p.m.

    http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/...s/cm030623.htm

    3. the initiation of a Recreational Strategic Study be authorized, with an appointed Task Force to develop strategies and recommendations for sustainable recreation and mountain biking at Fromme Mountain and the mountain areas of DNV, and to include parking and staging provisions, as well as environmental management guidelines. This process includes a multi-jurisdictional review of mountain biking on the North Shore with GVRD, BC Parks, District of West Vancouver, North Shore Mountain Bike Association, Grouse Mountain Resort, Seymour Mountain Resorts, and Cypress Mountain Resorts to identify sites with developed park infrastructure and site conditions that support downhill mountain biking, and may support private/public economic opportunities;

    5. a Mountain View Park neighbourhood meeting during July 2003 be initiated to discuss recreational and environmentally sustainable trail management options for the park, and to address neighbourhood issues relating to mountain biking, trail impacts and ecosystem degradation.

    Councillor Crist is lumping Mountain View Park in with the larger recreational study. Two public meetings and one open house to address mountain view park has been conducted.

    http://www.dnv.org/upload/pcdocsdocuments/[email protected]!.htm

    The Final Preferred OPtion:

    incorporates the public feedback received and presents the best possible alternative which responds to the identified issues and which balances the wishes of the community and park users.

    At this point we wish to support the 'Final Preferred Option' based on the majority of users input. Once this area is addressed the larger issue of the Alpine Recreational Study and Mountain Biking on Mt. Fromme can be addressed.

    We appreciate your support and look forward to your participation in the future of Mountain Biking on Mt. Fromme.


    be part of the solution! Jim
    reading the proposals/concerns, this seems to me to be mainly about parking- nothing really about sustainability of the region to support mtb.
    An I wrong here?

  10. #10
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashaholic
    reading the proposals/concerns, this seems to me to be mainly about parking- nothing really about sustainability of the region to support mtb.
    An I wrong here?
    It was about parking. But from what I Undersatnd and experience, the residence just don't want anyone to be in their neighbourhood.

  11. #11
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    It's all about the NIMBYs

    Quote Originally Posted by JimC.
    so I wrote to the District Of North Van to press for a quick resolution of a small park issue, and got this broad and sweeping response. Ah [email protected] We're working on it, many thanks to LeeL and Brodiegrrl and many more behind the scenes....

    "The use of Mountain View Park by mountain bikers has seriously and adversely impacted this park. The same is true for other active recreational areas where mountain biking has been allowed. Mountain Biking and other standard recreational activities including hiking are simply not compatible. It is like forcing a square peg into a round hole - like mixing fire and water.

    Mountain biking may be a wonderful sport, however, it requires special designated areas away from residential areas. There are plenty such places on the North Shore including in the so called recreational hinterland.

    The District Council made a serious and altogether costly mistake when they accommodated mountain biking in the present designated areas for it is a no win situation that can only lead to endless and unnecessary confrontations between bikers and the public. Not to mention that it is also extremely expensive.

    I have and will continue to press for a strategic, a more practical and more cost effective solution. This means that I will continue to push to develop areas within GVRD and/or provincial government owned or administrated lands that are more suitable for this otherwise wonderful sport.

    Yours truly,

    Ernie Crist (city counsellor)
    Here's what I think.
    Has the councellor given any thought to how much revenue would be lost if riding was re-located to elsewhere in the GVRD?
    Think of all the establishments that would lose money, here's some off the top of my head:
    Bike shops
    Restaurants
    pubs
    gas stations
    grocery stores
    coffee shops
    cafes
    fast food outlets

    What would be the negative economic impact to North Van as the GVRD is a big place- if the North shore was off-limits, the accomodating location in the GVRD is going to reap an economic windfall.

  12. #12
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    Hey Jim,

    That Ernie Crist is against Mountain Biking is nothing new. (Actually, he claims he is not against mountain biking - to some extent he's just *****ing about one particular area on Fromme). He's a lost cause, as far as we are concerned. The trick is to not let him or his views influence the rest of Council. Crist is somewhat of a contrarian and maverick, and I'm sure he has lots of political enemies. However, you don't want him hijacking the progress that NSMBA and others are making. His claim that MTB should be pushed out to less populated areas is a red herring. Eventually, those less populated areas become a subdivisions, and then you get the same old problems again.

    What is needed is constructive cooperation and imaginative ideas to enable all recreational users of the public district parks system access to what is their rightfully theirs. D.
    You be you. I'll be riding.

  13. #13
    Tear it all out! SuperModerator
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    Don't forget hotels & motels for the out of town vistors.

    Also tour companies, the shuttle company, athletic clothing retailers, BC Parks (all those parking fees).

  14. #14
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    thousands of pounds?

    shouldn't that be kilos?

    Yep I get Crist. Piece 'o work that guy. All his oars aren't in the water, IMHO. I think there will enough support there to kill any proposal dead, but also enough horsepower to show that the MTB community is seriously dedicated to Fromme.

    I have confirmed that Tomlinson, Sydor, and 2 others will speak, and have called on the http://btac.org/ who have mounted an email campaign to get Western suppliers and mfrs to show support.

    Unfortunately Tourism Vancouver can't help, but we should be able to show responsible, committed, things and stuff, er, planning and results.

    Jim

  15. #15
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    10. Update Report on Mountain Biking

    File 5460-50/01

    Tracking Number 00160

    (to request an update report on the impacts of mountain biking in District parks)
    Report: Councillor Ernie Crist, February 6, 2004
    http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/...rts/392877.pdf


    Joint Report: Section Manager – Parks Planning and Section Manager – Transportation, February 13, 2004
    http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/...rts/386227.pdf


    Attachment A - http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/...rts/332945.pdf
    Attachment B - http://www.dnv.org/upload/documents/...rts/392229.pdf


    COUNCILLOR’S RECOMMENDATION:
    THAT staff be requested to provide an update report on the Mountain Biking issue in the District of North Vancouver, which includes:
    · the complaints and concerns raised by District residents pertaining to the ongoing destruction of parks and pedestrian pathways as a result of mountain biking; and

    · the status of the negotiations and the "strategic plan" for the relocation of mountain biking away from District Parks and residential areas to locations more suitable, such as GVRD and/or Provincial lands as promised to the residents in 2002 and the early part of 2003.

  16. #16

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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Save bike trails

    North Vancouver is well known all over the world for mountain biking. So let's keep that title attach to North Vancouver. I am not really sure if mountain bikers has seriously and adversely impacted the park.

    Westwood Plateau, Coquitlam has lots of backyard trails, and the mountain bikers are sharing the trail with the hikers, dog walkers, and others peacefully. We intend to keep that attitude as long as possible, and City Of Coquitlam is fully cooperate with their residents.

    The North Vancouver mountain bikers are welcome to test their nerves at Westwood Plateau, Coquitlam trails. We have got lots of well known trails around the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimC.
    so I wrote to the District Of North Van to press for a quick resolution of a small park issue, and got this broad and sweeping response. Ah [email protected] We're working on it, many thanks to LeeL and Brodiegrrl and many more behind the scenes....

    "The use of Mountain View Park by mountain bikers has seriously and adversely impacted this park. The same is true for other active recreational areas where mountain biking has been allowed. Mountain Biking and other standard recreational activities including hiking are simply not compatible. It is like forcing a square peg into a round hole - like mixing fire and water.

    Mountain biking may be a wonderful sport, however, it requires special designated areas away from residential areas. There are plenty such places on the North Shore including in the so called recreational hinterland.

    The District Council made a serious and altogether costly mistake when they accommodated mountain biking in the present designated areas for it is a no win situation that can only lead to endless and unnecessary confrontations between bikers and the public. Not to mention that it is also extremely expensive.

    I have and will continue to press for a strategic, a more practical and more cost effective solution. This means that I will continue to push to develop areas within GVRD and/or provincial government owned or administrated lands that are more suitable for this otherwise wonderful sport.

    Yours truly,

    Ernie Crist (city counsellor)

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