Be nicer than you have to be to hikers- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Daniel the Dog
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    Be nicer than you have to be to hikers

    I recently had the pleasure of talking to some elderly hikers on a trail I ride often. Long story short, the hikers looked scared as I came down the side of a hill. I stopped and apologized if I scared them. They told me they don't mind bikers but get afraid when they see us because they don't want to get hit.

    This got me thinking. Can you imagine how much of a threat we are to a couple this this? Remember to breathe, take it easy, and realize you are not the only recreationalist out there!

  2. #2
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    I always ask them where their bike went haha.

  3. #3
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    How true. To senior citizens we must seem like something from Mad Max. Funny how NOT like that most of us really are.

    And to push it a little further out there - be nicer than you have to be to everyone you meet on the trail. It does do some good - one person at a time. Stop to talk to the dog walkers and hikers, take a minute to offer encouragement to the newby riders etc. For example, I ALWAYS stop if I see people looking at a trail map. It's easy to get dislocated at a new place and often just a quick 'it's over there" can really help their day.

    Anyways, I think everyone has had enough encounters with dumbasses that they appreciate a bit of civility.

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  4. #4
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    When riding on shared use trails I have a little jingle bell attached to my bars, a lot like a bear bell but for hikers. I don't rip where I can't see what is coming around a corner and when I do see people, I slow to a walking pace when coming from behind, or usually stop altogether if coming towards them so they can walk by. I always say hello, usually say something about how nice it is out, enjoy the hike, etc. It's just common courtesy that goes a long way.

    In socal I'd been on DH runs with groups before where people were not so courteous and on one occasion almost ran down two elderly women. Needless to say that was my last ride with them, but the point remains that those guys are still out there, so there needs to be enough of the positive on the other side to help try to balance things out.

    Oh and nearly 100% of the time, hikers always comment on the bell and how much the appreciated being able to hear me coming. It also helps if you're moving along and don't see someone, they at least hear you and can get out of the way, plus they can judge your speed by the frequency of the bell jingle.
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  5. #5
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    There was a fatality here a while ago involving an elderly lady and an inline skater. It sounded like the skater was not at fault at all (not speeding, on the right side of the path), but I bet they still felt pretty bad. A stiff breeze or just being startled can give some people a tumble, and a pretty simple fall can be life-altering or fatal.
    Last edited by spsoon; 08-22-2011 at 10:22 AM.

  6. #6
    local trails rider
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    A few days ago, I rode past a group of walkers at the bottom of a hill. One of them commented that he thought there must've been a bear coming. I think he was joking. The thumps I made going over the roots and rocks might not give many clues about what I was but the Hope hub should have revealed something mechanical was involved

    People usually see or hear me coming and let me pass when they can (the trails tend to be narrow). I make a point of saying something friendly to them. Maybe just "Thanks!" or "Nice day!", or "Hey, haven't you seen a bike before?" to a dog that looks surprised to see a bike in the woods.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  7. #7
    Workin for the weekend!
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    I run a bear bell in areas where there are alot of hikers, but it still amazes me how people are so oblivious to anything else around them. I still startle people as I roll in behind them - bell, squeaky brakes and a clicky derailleur...

    I always say hello and ask them how they like my new bell... LOL!

  8. #8
    bust a move
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    Weekend before last during my second lap I startled a 60's ish couple by not announcing rider up before bounding down the only spot where not doing so could cause a problem. I slowed almost to a stop, appolgized and told them I was riding alone and then moved on. The point is, I shouted out on lap 1 at that spot and I shout out there 98% of the time I do that section...but I didn't do it that time and that was the time that affected those hikers. Being courteous should be a 100% kind of thing. I am working on that.

    Edit: That courteous thing applies to rule abiding non idiot types. The rest get what they get
    Last edited by 2ridealot; 08-22-2011 at 01:03 PM.

  9. #9
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    friendly and courteous works for me for atleeast 5-10yd max until I have to startle the **** out of them with a tap on the shoulder or an "amplified" hello or excuse me cuz their headphones are bieber blasted to 11. this happens alot these days. We were at a drop to trannny that snakes tightly and densely downward to a water crossing and had all stood at the top to yell out "rider" for atleast 30 secs or so making sure the trail was clear and waiting for responses. Dropping in is pretty much commitment to gravity, right? Lady with her infant in a sling and headphones loud enough to hear was in the middle of the exit of the tranny. Had to stack myself into roots instead to avoid hitting them. She never took the earplugs off or even ask how i was....so that gene pool will probably remain shallow.

    there was recon done before the drop down the trail and then walked up to my bike and then dropped. can't always have a lookout or spotter though.
    Last edited by 53119; 08-22-2011 at 01:05 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I recently had the pleasure of talking to some elderly hikers on a trail I ride often. Long story short, the hikers looked scared as I came down the side of a hill. I stopped and apologized if I scared them. They told me they don't mind bikers but get afraid when they see us because they don't want to get hit.

    This got me thinking. Can you imagine how much of a threat we are to a couple this this? Remember to breathe, take it easy, and realize you are not the only recreationalist out there!
    Yep.

    I'm always nice to the hikers and horsey-people... it's good karma to treat others with respect on the trails (unless they're being d00chey). BUT! I see a lot of stupid sh)t that needs to be called out, and most times I am ignored.

    We have rattlesnakes here and they pop up out of nowhere. However, weekend warriors just let their kids roam free in the tall tick and snake infested brush. I warn parents of the rattlesnake problem, and they just roll their eyes and give me the "Oh, okay..."

    I also get a lot of weekend warriors, like hikers and trail runners, fully iPod'ed up and they can't hear you yelling at them to move right so you can pass. I have literally got right up on them, like a foot away from their face and had to yell and full tilt to let them know I was there. I ride with music, but I only have one ear-bud in at half volume so I can hear everything around me. Often times families will take up the entire trail, even the super wide ones that a ranger truck can get on.

    I'm not a fan of off-leash dogs. It's dangerous for the dog and MTB'ers. I don't even bother with the off-leash dog situation and let the rangers take care of that since it is illegal on the trails. My county can use the ticket revenue.

    Otherwise, I keep pretty cordial with everybody, especially the elderly folks. I just get a little irked how I do everything I can to be forgiving with my trail sharing (trying to uphold a good impression of MTB'ers), but others (non-MTB) are not willing to reciprocate the efforts.

  11. #11
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    I encounter enough unaware types on the trails it makes me realize that my safety is in my hands. Possible head on encounters if I didn't hear them crashing down the path to out of control riders on my side of the trail or someone just straddling the middle behind a blind corner texting. Despite this I always try to make eye contact and say hi. .

  12. #12
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    Walkers round here are more or less friendly to mtbers, maybe it's because we're all squished together on this tiny isle, you gotta share...

    Quote Originally Posted by perttime View Post
    but the Hope hub should have revealed something mechanical was involved .
    If someone misses a Hope Hub coming towards them then they officially deserve to get run over, I'm pretty sure even the deaf can feel the noise coming at them throuh the ground

  13. #13
    nocturnal oblivion
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    Jaybo you just got repped, sounds like you did a good job.

    Imagine hitting an elderly couple. They do die pretty easily.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  14. #14
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    Excellent sentiment, Jaybo.

    I'm amazed at how hikers often seem surprised that a MTB'er would stop and have a discussion about the day, the view, the trail; things that we share with them. You can at times literally see the apprehension dissolve.

    Eye contact and a smile are somewhat a commodity in SoCal, so I try to dole them out liberally when the op arises. And I try to maintain a friendly tone when alerting to my approach.

    Call me selfish, because leaving people with a better sense of our group makes me feel good. And I think acknowledging others cordially on the trail is simply the right thing to do.

    Happy trails...literally!

    Mike

  15. #15
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    Ear buds are the worst thing to ever happen to hiking/running/riding. Unbelieveable the level of distraction and spacial relations. Can only say "on your left" so much in one day.

  16. #16
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    Every now and then I'll see a hiker or jogger on the trail...but seeing as how I'm still working on improving my skills its usually the hikers and joggers who are passing me I do pull off the trail when I stop to catch my breath so if there's anybody behind me they can get by safely.

  17. #17
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    I yeild to all. Even if I'm going up. GBB
    .....

  18. #18
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    I like being nice to people on the trail. They're 99% of the time nice in return and both of our days are the better for it.

    Scaring old folks is just not cool, and I never want to find out what happens when you're near a horse that freaks out. Neither one is worth the few seconds I would save by not slowing down.

    But I have to admit I have been known to get a little "not-so-nice" sometimes. Recently I was riding up a trail and had a runner who was coming down make eye contact with me then drop and start doing push-ups in middle of the trail. First thing thru my head was WTF?! To each his own but would it have been that difficult to give me another 30 seconds to pass? So I squeezed to the side as much as possible and still continued thru. Almost clipped the dude with my peddle! He mumbled something rude and moved over in the middle of his push-ups and I just kept riding. May the trail gods forgive my lapse in judgment.

  19. #19
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    i always slow/stop and find out what the other user wants to do. Many time hikers insist that i keep going and pass, even when i follow etiquette by the book and tell them to pass.

    Being friendly does go a long way. Every single one of us out their can be an ambassador and do alot of good by just following some simple rules. The better rider you are the easier it is to still mach speed, and still anticipate poor sight line areas and slow/stop for other users. Plus knowing what trail you're on etc.

    Plus if you're in a group, just letting other trail users know how many are you in your group is a big help. Pay attention to how many people are chasing you, and it can make a big difference.

    Anyways i roll with Probey. i give Probey a squeek on an approaching hiker and generally they think it's pretty funny when they realize what it is. Makes for a real positive funny experience most of the time, and trail dogs love it...

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  20. #20
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    On 1 trail that I ride its always "Biker back, on your Left"....on 1 of the other trails the trail runners like to play chicken! silly runners....

  21. #21
    mikeb
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    i go out of my way to be nice to everybody i see on the trail...especially pretty women with dogs...

    but seriously, a little good will goes a long way. even so, i've run across folks who have the hot rebar stick jammed so deep and tight that there's nothing anybody can do to help them! being the hothead that i know i am, i just take a deep breath when i encounter these pinch-faced cretins, keep on riding and smile and nod...smile and nod...no need to let somebody have it when we're all supposed to be having a good time...

    smiling and nodding has gotten me through a lot of tough times in my near fifty trips around the sun...

  22. #22
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    We see the Ipodded walkers fairly regularly on the mountain bike trails when my little girl and I ride. Bugs me that there are both biking and walking trails there but everyone chooses to use the bike trail yet we can't choose to use the walking trail. At least some of them walk against bike traffic. My daughter likes to lead and she can never make herself loud enough to be heard. Plus we have a some really fast bikers around here as well and sometime we are the hazard.

    So I got her a cowbell to hang on her bars. It's freaking loud and she loves it. Wife hates it. But people know she's coming, the fast guys know she's up ahead and she can cheer herself on in the kids races.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by humanpackmule View Post
    We see the Ipodded walkers fairly regularly on the mountain bike trails when my little girl and I ride. Bugs me that there are both biking and walking trails there but everyone chooses to use the bike trail yet we can't choose to use the walking trail. At least some of them walk against bike traffic. My daughter likes to lead and she can never make herself loud enough to be heard. Plus we have a some really fast bikers around here as well and sometime we are the hazard.

    So I got her a cowbell to hang on her bars. It's freaking loud and she loves it. Wife hates it. But people know she's coming, the fast guys know she's up ahead and she can cheer herself on in the kids races.
    Get a Incredibell (or however it's spelled). It dings an earbud-piercing ring when you need it. I've got one on both of my bikes.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaLL6 View Post
    Get a Incredibell (or however it's spelled). It dings an earbud-piercing ring when you need it. I've got one on both of my bikes.
    +1 on the Incredibell. I love mine even though my left ear rings a touch after a long ride. (gears on right side, bell on left side of handle bar). My favorite trail has a ton of blind corners so I'm a little heavy on the bell. Most hikers or other bikes know right where I'm at well before I get there. I picked up the bell after I yelled "RIDER" the best I could while blowing a lung and came face to face with an ear bud wearing hiker. The result was a broken wrist, dislocated shoulder, and separated AC. There is still one trail runner I find some mornings that I start ringing the $%^# out of the bell 30 yards behind and he never hears me until I pass him and then freaks out like I was going to mug him or something.

  25. #25
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    I slow down for hikers and say "Hello" to let them know I'm there. I can't think of any hikers in the past 3+ years that responded to this in a negative manner. And if I happen to run into them more than once its "Hello...sorry its me again"

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaLL6 View Post
    Get a Incredibell (or however it's spelled). It dings an earbud-piercing ring when you need it. I've got one on both of my bikes.
    Nah, our trail needs more cowbell.

  27. #27
    Lone Wolf McQuade
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    I'm nice to EVERYONE....hikers, bikers, hikers with dogs, bikers with dogs, horseback riders and even motorcycle riders. It would suck to be laying in a ditch with a broken leg and no cell phone only to have the person you just pushed off the trail, were rude to or gave the finger to because they were in your way, be the first person to find you....d'oh!!

    Matt
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by humanpackmule View Post
    Nah, our trail needs more cowbell.
    These guys seem to agree


  29. #29
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    Me too - the places I ride have just as many hikers as horse riders and I always pull over for the horses and announce as far as I can in advance as practical with hikers. The all appreciate the warning or pulling over - I'm amazed at some of the comments the horse riders give that I'm in the large minority of mtb's that pull over for a horse.

    On the other side, since I've been down with injury, I've become a hiker on the trails I ride and like all sports, there are some bad apples - just this past Saturday, I was on a trail with my dog and 14 year old daughter and this trail is clearly marked - HIKERS ONLY - yet, there were 3 sets of mtb's on it. The first set came on another hiker with their dog and got into a beef - the hikers said the trail is off limits to mtb's and the bikers said 'yeah, whatever'. I said the same thing to the next group (and even telling them I mtb and I'm out with injury) and they said to me 'oh, I didn't know' - I called BS since the only entrance to the trail is gated off and says HIKERS ONLY - even Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could have seen the sign.

    But yeah, be as polite and nice as possible because we all have to share the woods.

  30. #30
    My spelling is atroshus
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    I am generally nice to anyone that it nice to me, but going out of my way to explain myself to hikers is not something I'm willing to waste time doing.

  31. #31
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    Can't we just be nicer to everyone than we have to?

  32. #32
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    This past winter, I found out a friends hiking group had not tried the MTB trails at our local state park (BCSP). These trails are designated for MTB's and hikers, but they didn't think they belonged on these trails I started hiking with them and took them on 25 miles of "new to them" trails. I also taught them to do a little maintenance as we went.

    The bonus is they clear limbs off of all trails and pick up trash now. They had never even considered doing "maintenance" as they hiked.

  33. #33
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    I love saying hi to obviously irritated hikers and hearing their strained and unenthusiastic greetings back.

  34. #34
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    It always seems weird to me how many bikers on this forum don't hike too.

    When I started riding, most of the mountain bikers were hikers that were picking it up as an additional activity.

    I consider myself a hiker that later took up biking. All these years later, I still do both with equal pleasure. Of course I am courteous to hikers. I'm one of them! Many hikers (me included) prefer to step aside and let bikers through. This is, of course, dependent upon the situation where you encounter each other on the trail. However, I always defer right-of-way to hikers unless waved on through.

  35. #35
    RideDirt
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    Just recently i was out riding on my usual trails, and as i am riding on a trail that is a bit tight with some twisties and roots , i see a family , 1 father 1 mother 2 kids and 1 HUGE great dane walking on this trail and mind you dogs are not permitted in this part of the park .. So i am riding and as i come up behind them i slow down and they can obv hear me coming and my brakes making noises lol . They didnt even freaking move over to let me go by ?!?! I couldnt pass them on either side due to the design of the trail but them being on foot could of just stopped , moved to the left side and let me pass .. It really annoyed the **** out of me as they were a mid age couple and didnt even bother to show courtesy to me. So i just stopped dead on my tracks and waited a good 5 minutes for them to clear out.. I didnt want to seem rude or scare their kids but wtf MOVE .. and that trail is a BIKE trail only too..

  36. #36
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    As a hiker, MTBer and trail runner I always try to greet others with a friendly face and polite Hello. Also, I always slow down and make some noise before passing people from behind. It doesn´t help all the time, especially with these ear plugs and iPods, so I have scared the **** out of a few hikers - didn´t mean to though.

  37. #37
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    There's no doubt that being friendly and sensible is the right attitude. One question; Why wouldn't you be friendly and respectful of someone you meet on the trail?

    I love the bush, so if I meet someone there it's not rocket science that they also do. It's a chance to have one of those moments that help identify your day. Not quite like recovering from a 2 wheel drift over-cooking a turn, but you get the idea.

    The i-pod generation worry me. Almost no-one gets too uptight about a downhill rider they hear coming but the oblivious ones are a recipe for disaster. All sorts of disaster.

    How many women I have ridden behind in isolated areas, unaware of my presence or anything other than what's in front of their nose, all alone! Up to hundreds of metres on their shoulder. No matter how often I wonder about their confidence and independence, they all seem to wet their pants when I finally get a spot to pass.

    Yell or bell you say. Well, where I live if you startle people, they do jump in front of you. You either pass where and when you can allowing distance and getting off the path or trail as needed, or you slow right down, wait for the time they do wake up and just enjoy where you are at a different pace until there is a chance to pass safely.

    To be fair, most of these people are going my direction, but I remain amazed how many are facing you. It must take some level of training to be that blind, deaf and ignorant. I treat these people with max respect - they will get you

  38. #38
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    I think the act of being courteous to others we come come across should be applied to all aspects of life, whether it be on the trails, at the grocery store or at work. Common courteousy goes a long way.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BumpityBump View Post
    It always seems weird to me how many bikers on this forum don't hike too.
    I bust out my Asolo's in the winter, when the trails are closed to MTB'ers and horses. Otherwise, why hike when I can bike?

  40. #40
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    Sorry to say, I let two Sierra Club type hikers have it last week. I just wasn't in the mood to be fake nice. I was climbing up the trail, stopped and pulled off to let them by. I said a friendly "Hello, beautiful morning". In return I received, "You mountain bikers shouldn't be allowed on the trails around here; you're ruining our hike and the trail". WTF??? I was climbing uphill on a singlespeed. I went into smarta$$ mode and told them I hoped they didn't carve their names on any trees and asked if they were packing out their trash, because there's been issues with hikers(partiers) trashing the end of the trail. Then I asked if they were flatlanders since I've never seen them on trail maintenance days. That shut them up. At the end of the ride, I called the ranger who is my friend and also rides, and told him about the uppity hikers, and that he may get a complaint about me, but he didn't. I've been mountain biking for over 25 years and consider myself an ambassador to the sport, but these two were complete ******s.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  41. #41
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    Never have a problem with hikers but scared two horse backers...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HTR4EVR View Post
    Never have a problem with hikers but scared two horse backers...

    Typically the horse encounter is quite easy to deal with. Last season though, I almost got run over by a group of four horsemen as they rounded a corner at speed. I avoided by detouring off the trail. It goes both ways.

  43. #43
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    We do a bit of hiking as well as mountain biking, so when I'm hiking I always try to be conscious of mountain bikers and step out of the way to let them pass especially if they are going uphill. When I'm biking I slow down and smile and say hello to hikers, but I don't kiss their arse and assume they or horse riders own the trail. I do stop for horses, horses are prey animals and they can hurt the rider if they are startled. (Although a horse like that doesn't belong on the trail, they are still out there)

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BumpityBump View Post
    It always seems weird to me how many bikers on this forum don't hike too.

    When I started riding, most of the mountain bikers were hikers that were picking it up as an additional activity.

    I consider myself a hiker that later took up biking. All these years later, I still do both with equal pleasure. Of course I am courteous to hikers. I'm one of them! Many hikers (me included) prefer to step aside and let bikers through. This is, of course, dependent upon the situation where you encounter each other on the trail. However, I always defer right-of-way to hikers unless waved on through.
    Yep, I'm the same. A reformed backpacker.
    Lots of ways to have fun in the woods.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nOOky View Post
    We do a bit of hiking as well as mountain biking, so when I'm hiking I always try to be conscious of mountain bikers and step out of the way to let them pass especially if they are going uphill. When I'm biking I slow down and smile and say hello to hikers, but I don't kiss their arse and assume they or horse riders own the trail. I do stop for horses, horses are prey animals and they can hurt the rider if they are startled. (Although a horse like that doesn't belong on the trail, they are still out there)
    When hiking I never expect mtbers to stop for me. I always move out of their way...

  46. #46
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    This thread is a breath of fresh air! Whenever biker/hiker courtesy comes up - and it comes up often - I usually feel like I'm swimming against the tide when I make the pitch for courtesy and safety. As one who hikes as well as bikes, I appreciate the issue from both sides. When I'm hiking, I expect bikers to slow WAY down, and if approaching from behind, to also announce themselves at least 20 feet back to make sure I know they are approaching. This is what I do when I'm the biker, and people are always pleasant and let my by with a smile and a hello. Hikers need ample time to see that they are not in danger. I never expect hikers to jump out of my way, nor when hiking will I jump out of the way of a biker who does not show me the same basic courtesy. I've only met one militant biker hater in my 15 years of riding. Sadly, as both a rider and a hiker, I've met more than a few rude riders.
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    Whenever I ride I am polite with hikers, slow way down, and say thanks if they step off the trail to let me go past - despite that I would say 20% of them just glare at me with the evil eye and say nothing. It's usually the older types. I figure kill them with kindness anyway.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  48. #48
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    I'm lucky enough to live in a town surrounded by open land with 75+ miles of single track. That's all multi-use, and gets a lot of foot traffic, too. So far we've been fortunate enough to avoid user conflicts, and I make a point of making eye contact and saying 'hi' every time I meet a hiker. If they move for me, I always thank them.

    I don't make as many of our trail maintenance days as I'd like to or should, but I've noticed (and others have commented) that the majority of volunteers are from the MTB community. Trails matter more to us.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    This thread is a breath of fresh air! Whenever biker/hiker courtesy comes up - and it comes up often - I usually feel like I'm swimming against the tide when I make the pitch for courtesy and safety. As one who hikes as well as bikes, I appreciate the issue from both sides. When I'm hiking, I expect bikers to slow WAY down, and if approaching from behind, to also announce themselves at least 20 feet back to make sure I know they are approaching. This is what I do when I'm the biker, and people are always pleasant and let my by with a smile and a hello. Hikers need ample time to see that they are not in danger. I never expect hikers to jump out of my way, nor when hiking will I jump out of the way of a biker who does not show me the same basic courtesy. I've only met one militant biker hater in my 15 years of riding. Sadly, as both a rider and a hiker, I've met more than a few rude riders.
    Sorry to take issue with your laudable sentiment, but what happens if you come over a blind drop and a hiker is on their back side, knocking dirt out of their shoe? Do you go back in time, announce your presence and slow down?

    Do you slow down and announce your presence 20 feet back on a granny gear climb?

    If a hiker fails to acknowledge a biker, no set rule is going to change that. Like no rule is going to stop some people being dic&#eads on bikes. What will you say when you hit a hiker despite your genuine and demonstrated care?

    Trails are not city streets or ice-covered roads. The rules are simple and always were:

    Bikes have right of way over hikers. They go faster, stop and start less easily and safely and they are a momentary inconvenience. Plus riders need to focus on a safe path rather than just hitting the brakes like bad drivers do

    Horses are not predictable and big. They have right of way over anything smaller. Horses are scary

    What is going down has right of way. It cannot hear or stop as effectively as those ascending

    and; cars have right of way over bikes, buses over cars, trucks over buses and so on. It's not rocket science and no government official needs to be paid to make rules.

    There are no rules when it comes to meeting people. The trail is just a better place than the city to do it. The place rules who does what

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    ... The rules are simple and always were:

    Bikes have right of way over hikers. They go faster, stop and start less easily and safely and they are a momentary inconvenience. Plus riders need to focus on a safe path rather than just hitting the brakes like bad drivers do

    Horses are not predictable and big. They have right of way over anything smaller. Horses are scary

    What is going down has right of way. It cannot hear or stop as effectively as those ascending

    and; cars have right of way over bikes, buses over cars, trucks over buses and so on. It's not rocket science and no government official needs to be paid to make rules.

    There are no rules when it comes to meeting people. The trail is just a better place than the city to do it. The place rules who does what
    ------------
    RiP,

    Wow, either I'm missing the tongue in cheek humor, admire your trolling skills, or you live in another world.. Your rules sound more like stone age survivor than reality. So if a truck runs over your Geo - he had the right? WTF. Do hope you're kidding and not really such a tool.

    What most people recognize, and read are the posted, and generally accepted IMBA trail rules: Cyclists yield to Hikers, DH bikers yield to uphill, and ALL yield to Horses.

    One problem this can create is the hiker that (falsely) believes they are the top of the food chain, and are unwilling to relinquish the trail to another user. Yes, we've all encountered a few of these self entitled d-bags, and ear buds have made this far worse. In the city these too are the ones to jump off the curb and cross the street w/o looking "because" they have the ROW. Not a well-accepted reason at the funeral when a 6000# SUV crushed their self-righteous arse, who'll forever be remembered as an ideological idiot.

    While descending all it takes is to use your brakes, stop and let the climber proceed. Do not expect anyone to yield, as a DH biker is lowest on the food chain. Do not hit anyone or they can pursue litigation, will prevail, and quite literally own you.

    As a biker, hiker & backpacker who dated a trail runner, and has an equestrian sister. I'm confident that if we all try a little we can all share the same trails w/o many issues. Empathy IS the key to co-existence, not size, speed or brute strength.

    Lastly, what the OP states is very true. Please be kind, and overly considerate to all those encountered, if needed, we rely upon each other for assistance, and all share the love of the trails. Oh and yeah, for me an Incredibell works very well to announce w/o startling.

  51. #51
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    I like to think I am nice because I choose to vs. "have" to!!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Bikes have right of way over hikers. They go faster, stop and start less easily and safely and they are a momentary inconvenience. Plus riders need to focus on a safe path rather than just hitting the brakes like bad drivers do
    That might work fine in Australia, but in the USA, that attitude means that the mountain bikers will be banned from trail use. It has been going on since about 1985 and continues to this day. Mountain bikes now have about 25% of the trails that they had available in 1985, and the net is still decreasing for trail access.

    The kind of friendliness and courtesy that everyone is advocating here goes a long way to getting more MTB trails when the land managers find that the local MTB community is courteous and considerate.

    We have a tremendous bell program that is opening trails that we lost access to ride in 1987. Bells4Bikes
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  53. #53
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    RiP, I agree that any rule will have exceptions, or gray areas, and also that hikers need to be responsible. Let me respond to some of your points:

    what happens if you come over a blind drop and a hiker is on their back side, knocking dirt out of their shoe?

    This is a gray area - but hikers who are not riders may not realize they may be in harms way. On mixed use trails, a blind drop is the same as a blind curve in the trail, in my view. Hassle for the rider, I know.

    Do you slow down and announce your presence 20 feet back on a granny gear climb?

    Well, I'd already be going slow. I'd call out and ask if I could go by, which for me almost always works. If the trail was too tight for the hikers (especially if they include kids and a dog) to easily step aside, I'd just bag it and walk.

    If a hiker fails to acknowledge a biker, no set rule is going to change that.

    True. I've had this happen once in 14 years, and I just waited until I could get around the guy safely. I suspect most uncooperative hikers get that way from being buzzed one too many times by rude riders. Or maybe their just jerks. Or maybe both.

    Like no rule is going to stop some people being dic&#eads on bikes. What will you say when you hit a hiker despite your genuine and demonstrated care?


    I'm loathe to say never - accidents are always possible. And even tho I'm a pretty mellow rider, I'm human and at times have to control the adrenaline and remember to slow down when needed.

    Bikes have right of way over hikers.

    Strongly disagree, as does any posted trail rules I've ever seen.

    Horses are not predictable and big. They have right of way over anything smaller. Horses are scary

    Fer sher! I usually dismount for horses.

    What is going down has right of way. It cannot hear or stop as effectively as those ascending

    Disagree, with exceptions. Climbing rider gets the right of way, esp on technical terrain, unless the descending rider is negotiating something so tricky that stopping is not a reasonable option. Not that everyone abides by this. Plenty of riders just bomb on thru like they own it. But many do observe this rule. Everywhere I've seen this written, it's because the uphill rider is working harder and will have a harder time restarting. Also, when the trail demands that one rider yield, there should be one accepted way of making that decision that everyone understands.

    The place rules who does what

    Yes, but I think trial etiquette is the guide that we should follow unless something about the "place" overrides the rule - like the aforementioned example of the downhill rider.

    I think the overriding guideline is respect for the safety and rights of other trail users, and respect for the trail itself. Cooperation and mutual respect are the essential ingredients.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    What is going down has right of way. It cannot hear or stop as effectively as those ascending

    Disagree, with exceptions. Climbing rider gets the right of way, esp on technical terrain, unless the descending rider is negotiating something so tricky that stopping is not a reasonable option. Not that everyone abides by this. Plenty of riders just bomb on thru like they own it. But many do observe this rule. Everywhere I've seen this written, it's because the uphill rider is working harder and will have a harder time restarting. Also, when the trail demands that one rider yield, there should be one accepted way of making that decision that everyone understands.
    I've ALWAYS believed, practiced, and taught newer riders this view.

    It really is a little simple logic.....and a good dose of courtesy. If a rider doesn't abide by this, they are just plain selfish or ignorant.

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    Ring my bell and then say hello. Then if I don't see water always ask if they want some.
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  56. #56
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    You missed no tongue in cheek humour and nor am I a tool Flyin'W. What I said I meant. Call it stone-age or not, it makes more sense than your rules, which are only called rules by people who put rules before common sense. I never said be discourtious, I never advocated aggression and I totally fail to see how condescending to accepted stupidity makes for a sensible rule.

    Anyone who says they can more safely control their bike than a hiker can control their feet, react in a safe and responsible way and 100% give way on a downhill trail is lacking reality. Making a rule of a situation that puts both rider and hiker (or other rider) in an unsafe situation ensures consequences; legal and civil action and political trail conflict are the birthchild.

    Don't you get it? You are aquiescing to workstation experts dictating rules that ensure they propagate and become more pedantic. It is not "America" we are talking about here, you have no unique problem. What you do have is the downtrodden acceptance that rules made by someone for no good reason must make sense.

    You assert the rules say downhill yields to uphill, but that is far from a historical or uniform fact. There are plenty of places - not the least being bike parks and flow trails - where the DH rider always has right of way. If you can''t see your rules being applied there, I bet some lawyer can!

    Gasp4Air's response impresses me far more than IMBA's rules because it is considered and realistic. IMBA has existed for the blink of an eye in the history of trails. If IMBA's purpose is to be paid by riders to make and legitimize rules that endanger trail users, that is a pretty sad prognostic sign for MTB. If you want to accept rules that create safety issues and fly in the face of physics and common sense, then you get what you deserve. 25% of the original trails left - you're lucky they haven't got your underwear yet.

    Someone has to speak for common sense, even if it tastes bad these days.

  57. #57
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    The problem is, you just aren't displaying very good common sense and I won't waste our time trying to convince you.

    Please stay in the bike parks/flow trails and off of two way multi-use trails. Thanks.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    There are plenty of places - not the least being bike parks and flow trails - where the DH rider always has right of way.
    Well, duh, of course. That is true. But those trails are not considered multi use and do not have hikers, horses, or bikes climbing! The park we are building has signs and choke points at the entrance, and barriers at the points where anyone could "accidentally" enter, and the City attorneys have approved it all.

    These trails are being built! Have you seen this?
    For Mountain Bikers, New Ways to Go Downhill Fast - WSJ.com

    You can be as radical as you like, but bottom line, your behavior CLOSES multi use trails to mountain bikes where I live, ride, and build trails; that is what this discussion is about, you do understand the difference?

    Otherwise, you are really trolling here now.
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  59. #59
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    I attempt to treat anyone on the trail as i'd like to be treated....

    Give directions, say hi, say its a lovely day to be out, yield, help with repairs, ect....

    To help make up for those times I make a mistake and end up almost running into someone, or unintentionally being an asshat...

    I dunno just try to keep that golden rule in mind in all aspects of life not just riding, but seems to work pretty well on the trail
    Read my BLOG!

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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    I attempt to treat anyone on the trail as i'd like to be treated....

    Give directions, say hi, say its a lovely day to be out, yield, help with repairs, ect....

    To help make up for those times I make a mistake and end up almost running into someone, or unintentionally being an asshat...

    I dunno just try to keep that golden rule in mind in all aspects of life not just riding, but seems to work pretty well on the trail
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  61. #61
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    I'm nursing a busted pinky finger right now from my 2nd trip out on a trail because a trail runner had her music cranked and didn't hear me yell "on your left". I didn't see the headphones and she shifted to the right after I yelled so I start past and she moves in front of me. It was either knock her down a fairly rocky slope or try and stop and avoid her. Ended up catching a tree with my left hand and going down. She looked over her shoulder at me in a pile on the ground and kept going.

    Up to that point I hadn't had a problem with anyone else on the trail and everyone had been great about moving over. Always tell them thank you.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgraham1 View Post
    I'm nursing a busted pinky finger right now from my 2nd trip out on a trail because a trail runner had her music cranked and didn't hear me yell "on your left". I didn't see the headphones and she shifted to the right after I yelled so I start past and she moves in front of me. It was either knock her down a fairly rocky slope or try and stop and avoid her. Ended up catching a tree with my left hand and going down. She looked over her shoulder at me in a pile on the ground and kept going.

    Up to that point I hadn't had a problem with anyone else on the trail and everyone had been great about moving over. Always tell them thank you.
    Sorry for your pinky. A 120 decibel air horn would be an appropriate warning device for people who insist on shutting out the world where safety requires awareness of others.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    Sorry for your pinky. A 120 decibel air horn would be an appropriate warning device for people who insist on shutting out the world where safety requires awareness of others.
    But if you don't know whether or not they are wearing ear buds you likely would scare the ever lovin' bejesus out of them. I'd be pissed if someone railed an airhorn coming up on me while I was hiking and would more than likely try to flatten their nose in response. Just sayin...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgraham1 View Post
    I'm nursing a busted pinky finger right now from my 2nd trip out on a trail because a trail runner had her music cranked and didn't hear me yell "on your left". I didn't see the headphones and she shifted to the right after I yelled so I start past and she moves in front of me. It was either knock her down a fairly rocky slope or try and stop and avoid her. Ended up catching a tree with my left hand and going down. She looked over her shoulder at me in a pile on the ground and kept going.

    Up to that point I hadn't had a problem with anyone else on the trail and everyone had been great about moving over. Always tell them thank you.

    I had the same situation.... I hit the trail runner......
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    I had the same situation.... I hit the trail runner......
    I seriously had to think about it. Amazing how much you can process when bodily harm is imminent. I probably would have came out of it with just some bruised pride/rock rash but her spandex distracted me at the wrong moment. On the brighter side, I can still ride and I didn't fall on the majority of the rocks.

  66. #66
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    I just try to be nice to people, not startle them, and yield to others.
    If they start to be a jackass to me I'll throw it right back in their face and I'm blessed with being a little bigger and meaner looking than the average Joe so 99% of the time people giving me a hard time back right down when they realize I'm not gonna take their bullsh*t.
    Kind of funny how that works.....I'm one of the most mellow nicest guys you'll meet but I don't look like it.

  67. #67
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    I am new to biking and hiking they pretty much go hand in hand to me. Finf sweet places to bike when you hike. I pretty much treat people the way I want to be treated.
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  68. #68
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    I am always nice to all hikers, and it is very warming to talk to a few, because they seem to generally be "open-arms" to strangers and help you with things you didnt know..

    HOWEVER, i hate when hikers are d-bags.. like today as I was biking, I said "excuse me, on your left", and yes, i know hikers have more way, but then i pass him, because he was just really holding up traffic behind me. so i pass him at less than 5MPH, which is what the OSP regulates, yet this man, just yells at my face, for slowly passing him. I really hate when people cant just be friendly towards others.

  69. #69
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    I always try to be nice to folks I meet on the trail, whether they are hiking, biking, or trail running. Just spooked the mayor of Roanoke last week for the second time. Funny, its an overgrown gravel road that you would think they could hear you coming on - but for some reason they can't. Guess I need one of those bells. During the week I ride an urban trail network and most of the hikers that I have met have been quite friendly (including the mayor). Still working on one guy, he must be a foster parent and usually has a group of multi-ethnic kids with him. You can tell by the look on his face his distaste for mountain bikers. He may have had a bad MTB encounter, who knows.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BumpityBump View Post
    But if you don't know whether or not they are wearing ear buds you likely would scare the ever lovin' bejesus out of them. I'd be pissed if someone railed an airhorn coming up on me while I was hiking and would more than likely try to flatten their nose in response. Just sayin...
    True, an air horn doesn't really solve this problem. I guess I was speaking more out of frustration with this woman's thoughtlessness.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  71. #71
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    A handlebar bell will solve 99.0% of biker/hiker trail user conflict, particularly on busy trails in urban parks. Hikers almost always respond in a positive way to a little "ding". Say "Thank you," when people on foot step aside for your to pass.
    Rude people suck.
    Don't be one and ignore those who are. It is amazingly simple.

  72. #72
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    A few of my buddies and I were taking a break on a trail and 3 ederly women came by. My buddies and I are in our 40/50's and these women were ederly. They stopped and chatted for a bit and asked where we were from and all. It was a warm day so we offered some cold bottled water to them, they were tickled to death. One of the women actually picked up one of the bikes and commented how she'd like to ride a bike again. That was the kind of interaction that will promote responsible trail use by all parties involved. We even extended the offer for pizza and beer afterwards.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by June Bug View Post
    Rude people suck.
    Nothing more needs to be said... Rep for this.

  74. #74
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    I live where there are hiking only paths and multi-use trails. I believe there are a lot of uneducated hikers that don't know that they can have a nice uninterupted hike without bikers by staying on the hiking only paths. I don't have a problem with adult hikers/runners on multi-use trails, because that is there prerogative to risk their safety there (I don't want to run in to someone, but it could happen). I really do wish that parents of young children would not come out on multi use trails just on the chance of a collision. I weigh 185 or so with a 28.5lb and could possibly be going 20+mph. This could result in a really ugly collision. These parents could stay on hiking only paths and keep their children safe. I believe that hikers (especially with children) should educate themselves and check maps for specific trail use and use paths not indicated for multi-use and keep their children and dogs safe.
    Your momma's so nasty, she keeps ice between her legs just to keep the crabs fresh.

  75. #75
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    I was a bit rattled, last time I rode...

    I was Just Riding Along this dirt path through the woods, to get to the next piece of singletrack. A couple pushing a "baby carriage" were going in my direction, covering just enough of the path that I did not want to pass them without them being aware of me.

    So, I coast a bit to let my hope hub sing to them.... They don't know I'm there. At about 10 meters' distance I say (translating now) "Hi, I'll be passing you on the left" ........ "Eeeeaaarkh! Awful!" The woman turns around looking like she's under attack by cannibals or something.

    It didn't feel like a good time to start a conversation, so I just kept going. I can only assume they (she at least) were lulled to the "knowledge" that there's nobody else within a mile or five (except on the main road, gas station, nearby golf court, ...) And then suddenly, out of nowhere, there is someone.

    (The only limitation on usage on that path is: if you come on a motorized vehicle, you'd better have a good reason for it)

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  76. #76
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    I think many people only view things through their own goggles of life experience. Yes, people walk "gasp" on trails using their feet and have never ridden a trail on a bicycle. There is going to be some period of initiation that these people need to understand that bikes come up on them fast and often silent. And they do. I am an avid hiker AND cyclist and am sometimes surprised how quick a bike can show up without much notice. Therefore, rather than looking down my nose at disdain for people on foot, I usually try to be as friendly as possible.

    The biggest chance for collision seems to be with the occasional hiker who just doesn't get out often enough to become habituated to bikers on whatever trail they may be on. Or, as previously stated have music blaring in their ears. Diligence is key and line of sight dictates speed.

    I only remember scaring one hiker ever and he was some crazy old curmugeon relic hippie bastard that horked free bread at the local bakery like it was own private factory. I didn't feel too bad.

  77. #77
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    "I only remember scaring one hiker ever and he was some crazy old curmugeon relic hippie bastard"

    Don't feel bad, I already forgot.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    "I only remember scaring one hiker ever and he was some crazy old curmugeon relic hippie bastard"

    Don't feel bad, I already forgot.
    Ha ha, rep for you.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by aph72 View Post
    I live where there are hiking only paths and multi-use trails. I believe there are a lot of uneducated hikers that don't know that they can have a nice uninterupted hike without bikers by staying on the hiking only paths. I don't have a problem with adult hikers/runners on multi-use trails, because that is there prerogative to risk their safety there (I don't want to run in to someone, but it could happen). I really do wish that parents of young children would not come out on multi use trails just on the chance of a collision. I weigh 185 or so with a 28.5lb and could possibly be going 20+mph. This could result in a really ugly collision. These parents could stay on hiking only paths and keep their children safe. I believe that hikers (especially with children) should educate themselves and check maps for specific trail use and use paths not indicated for multi-use and keep their children and dogs safe.
    So who are multi use trails for, if not hikers and bikers?

    You seem to think that hiker only trails are for hikers and multi use trails are only for bikers.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by aph72 View Post
    ... I believe that hikers (especially with children) should educate themselves and check maps for specific trail use and use paths not indicated for multi-use and keep their children and dogs safe.
    Perhaps I am misreading your tone, but I get a sense that you feel it it more the hiker's responsibility to stay out of your way than it is for you to look out for them. Please correct me if I've misunderstood.

    Certainly, it is up to parents to keep their children safe. I would add that it's also up to riders to keep other trail users safe. Multi-use trails mean shared responsibility by all users.

    Also, to your point that parents with kids (or in your words, anyone who does not wish to "risk their safety there" should find hiking-only trail, the fact is that in most areas, such trails are rare. Most trails are multi-use by default. Would you be as agreeable to someone suggesting you limit your riding to biking-only trails? I suspect not, nor should you have to. So I repeat "Multi-use trails mean shared responsibility by all users."
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Yep.

    I'm always nice to the hikers and horsey-people... it's good karma to treat others with respect on the trails (unless they're being d00chey). BUT! I see a lot of stupid sh)t that needs to be called out, and most times I am ignored.

    We have rattlesnakes here and they pop up out of nowhere. However, weekend warriors just let their kids roam free in the tall tick and snake infested brush. I warn parents of the rattlesnake problem, and they just roll their eyes and give me the "Oh, okay..."

    I also get a lot of weekend warriors, like hikers and trail runners, fully iPod'ed up and they can't hear you yelling at them to move right so you can pass. I have literally got right up on them, like a foot away from their face and had to yell and full tilt to let them know I was there. I ride with music, but I only have one ear-bud in at half volume so I can hear everything around me. Often times families will take up the entire trail, even the super wide ones that a ranger truck can get on.

    I'm not a fan of off-leash dogs. It's dangerous for the dog and MTB'ers. I don't even bother with the off-leash dog situation and let the rangers take care of that since it is illegal on the trails. My county can use the ticket revenue.

    Otherwise, I keep pretty cordial with everybody, especially the elderly folks. I just get a little irked how I do everything I can to be forgiving with my trail sharing (trying to uphold a good impression of MTB'ers), but others (non-MTB) are not willing to reciprocate the efforts.
    X2...but I never wear any earbuds, not even one. I want to enjoy nature while riding and leave my music at home.

    Lately I've had a head-on with a runner who jumped into my line on a corner and an obviously inexperienced biker riding on the wrong side of the trail around a corner. This is USA, stay to the right side of the trail when others are present and especially around corners! Scared the s**t out of some runner/hikers with ipods! WTF is wrong with people?
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  82. #82
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    I just installed the incredibell (bellini) that I ordered a week ago after reading this thread. Thanks to those who suggested!
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  83. #83
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    I am courteous to everyone - hikers and horseback riders, although to be honest I dont much like the hb riders. Once, when riding in California, a rider must have lost control of his horse. I was on a fireroad, with plenty of room for both of us. He came tearing up behind me and knocked me off the bike a few yards. I did not even hear him coming. I just remember feeling something large right up against me. I was badly bruised and scraped up and my knee so swollen that I couldnt ride. He just looked at me and then took off. As I limped back down the road, a couple runners told me they had almost been hit by a guy on a horse. I had to get a ride home from some very nice strangers.

    When I was riding in Mi, my bf and I (newbies) got lost off the designated mtb trail and ended up on the horse trail. The horse trail was littered with trash. It was filthy. We finally found our way back to the mtb trail.

    I dont like them and I give them a wide berth.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I recently had the pleasure of talking to some elderly hikers on a trail I ride often. Long story short, the hikers looked scared as I came down the side of a hill. I stopped and apologized if I scared them. They told me they don't mind bikers but get afraid when they see us because they don't want to get hit.

    This got me thinking. Can you imagine how much of a threat we are to a couple this this? Remember to breathe, take it easy, and realize you are not the only recreationalist out there!
    I just try to be nice to everyone I run into, biker, hiker, equestrian, dog, whoever. For one, it just feels better to leave people happy and relaxed rather than ticked off and tense. Second, I figure that every time I interact with another user, I am representing the sport, and it is in my best interest for mtb'ers to have as good a reputation as possible. Of course, helps that most people around here on the trails are pretty gracious as well. I don't think I have EVER had a bad encounter in VA.

    Heck, even if someone is being an @ss (happened a couple of times when I lived in CA), being super gracious and polite just highlights their behavior, and is another opportunity to represent the sport well to anyone else witnessing the interaction.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  85. #85
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    Luckily, I regularly ride at a trail system that has this sign. That being the case, I always say "Hello, how are you? Thanks," when they move out of the way.

    mtb sign

  86. #86
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    I recently took the new bike I built for my friend and we had it out on a MUP for its shakedown. I had a few tools in the pocket and was making fit adjustments for her at random times. During one of those stops a passing cyclist asked if everything was okay and if we needed any help. At another point where there is a serious low spot in the trail and danger of knocking ones noggin joggers were warning us before we got to it. I guess we are lucky most people I encounter are pretty nice.

  87. #87
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    I love this Aldous Huxley quote

    "It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'Try to be a little kinder.'"

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghettocop View Post
    Ear buds are the worst thing to ever happen to hiking/running/riding. Unbelieveable the level of distraction and spacial relations. Can only say "on your left" so much in one day.
    Bingo, repped you for this.

  89. #89
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    I lost count of people walking their dogs that we met on trails today. Nobody seemed upset about sharing the trails with four cheerful guys on bikes. Except ... one puppy wasn't quite sure if we were dangerous or not.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  90. #90
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    All our "trails" are multi-use, but some have restrictions on horses and almost all on MX/4WD. They are not unidirectional.

    I have no memory of ever having a problem meeting with another person, regardless of their reason for being there, or whether they were on a "legal" trail. In fact, it has never happened on any trail. Reasonable doubt suggests it's not because I'm "nice" by nature.

    The question I'd like to ask is - If you are out in the bush, or for that matter 20m in the bush from your home, what makes you feel there is any right to a "right of way"?

    By regulating, or if you prefer, clarifying the situation with signage, don't you just create an environment of dispute?

    Common sense dictates what should happen in almost all encounters. Trying to control common sense and the natural environment makes no sense, because it cannot be effectively done.

    In case I am not getting this clear, again, what should be said here is what makes sense, not what sounds politically correct to non-MTBers. I remember walking in the bush. I still do. I've ridden MX and snowmobiles and taken old folks into the bush, pets and babies too. I just don't see sense in regulating our interactions with each other (and nature) for the sake of it, just in case, or worse still, to control the populace.

    And that includes being "nice" out of obligation. How stupid is that?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    By regulating, or if you prefer, clarifying the situation with signage, don't you just create an environment of dispute?
    You may have an excellent point there!

    I see a parallel in the sharing-the-streets approach that some towns in the world have taken to town center traffic. Remove street signs and even separation between cars and pedestrians. That forces/allows people to pay attention, take responsibility for their own actions, and do what is right or appropriate.

    I am sure it would not work everywhere but, in the right locations, it can work very well.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  92. #92
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    I know that for some (most?) of you this is not an option but try to avoid HIKING-ONLY trails. Most parks, mountains and other recreational areas have trails which are designated for hikers and designated for bikers. They should not mix. They might criss/cross each other, but never mix.

    However, if you ride on a hiking trail be extra polite to hikers. This will not help you out immediately, but will increase the awareness that the bikers are nice people, not suicidal ******s.

    ONE MORE TIP; if you ride as a group, even 2 guys, as you pass hikers tell them "ONE MORE COMING BEHIND" so they can be prepared in advance when next one comes in a few seconds. Because as the hikers or hiker moves out of the way to let you go, when you pass him, hikers will step back onto trail watching your back, probably commenting something about you (good or bad). This causes chaos for the second rider and even more harm.
    Daemon
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  93. #93
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    Anyone who chooses to ride a HIKING ONLY trail should look into finding another passion. my .02
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitanan View Post
    Anyone who chooses to ride a HIKING ONLY trail should look into finding another passion. my .02
    Your are so wrong ... in many areas around the world there are no separate biking and hiking trails, bikers and hikers have to mix. Furthermore, many bikers (at least ones I know) will prefer riding bike trail up the mountain and around the mountain once they are on top, but going down will choose hiking trails as they get you down in the smoothest possible fashion.

    This whole thread is about bikes going DOWN and endangering hikers. You are not much of a danger going up. Actually, most of the hikers will be faster than bikers going up =)
    Daemon
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post
    Your are so wrong ... in many areas around the world there are no separate biking and hiking trails, bikers and hikers have to mix. Furthermore, many bikers (at least ones I know) will prefer riding bike trail up the mountain and around the mountain once they are on top, but going down will choose hiking trails as they get you down in the smoothest possible fashion.

    This whole thread is about bikes going DOWN and endangering hikers. You are not much of a danger going up. Actually, most of the hikers will be faster than bikers going up =)
    Where I live and ride the word "ONLY" is pretty specific. Meaning that if a hiker calls law enforcement about people riding mtb on a hiking ONLY trail, they will come out wait for you to come out to the trailhesd and cite you (legally w/ a fine). Kinda like running a stop sign without the points. Based on those facts and the opinion of mine that I shouldn't ride on a hiking only trail, I made the previous statement and stand by it. If things are different where you live and ride then that would be different than my experience. I also read this thread to be more about being nice than going DOWN and endangering hikers. That is what is so cool about this forum, how people see and feel things differently.
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post
    Your are so wrong ... in many areas around the world there are no separate biking and hiking trails, bikers and hikers have to mix. Furthermore, many bikers (at least ones I know) will prefer riding bike trail up the mountain and around the mountain once they are on top, but going down will choose hiking trails as they get you down in the smoothest possible fashion.

    This whole thread is about bikes going DOWN and endangering hikers. You are not much of a danger going up. Actually, most of the hikers will be faster than bikers going up =)
    I am guessing you are from Croatia or another E European country that may not yet have the wealth of 'experience' that the US has in trail designation and so on. In the US, most trails are designated one way or the other, and users tend to protect their access rights with some seriousness. Responsible MTBers should stay off hiking only designated trails, so as not to risk losing the relatively little access they enjoy elsewhere. Authorities will start to enforce access issues more forcibly if extensive misuse does occur. As far as going up or down, the thread tackles all areas, but DH conflicts can involve a higher level for potential harm, altho flatter trails are also a huge issue. Uphills can be a problem too, especially if you are grinding up a steep climb on singletrack, and a hiker does not hear you coming for whatever reason, or refuses to yield. Having to get off and push mid-climb is a pain. There are only rare occasions that hikers are faster than me climbing, and I climb some pretty steep and technical stuff. I am no more than an averagely good rider, long in the tooth...

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitanan View Post
    Where I live and ride the word "ONLY" is pretty specific. Meaning that if a hiker calls law enforcement about people riding mtb on a hiking ONLY trail, they will come out wait for you to come out to the trailhesd and cite you (legally w/ a fine).
    Ah, well, if the policy is so strict, then yea, stay away. Not sore of this way of policing is enforced around the world ...

    From what I understand (and this thread is about) is that if you are polite and even extra polite to hikers there will be no repercussions, or at least let's minimize them.

    Do you think that on this trail of yours where police can snatch you, if you are extra polite to hikers they would not call the law enforcement? Could a nice word save your wallet?
    Daemon
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon[CRO] View Post
    Do you think that on this trail of yours where police can snatch you, if you are extra polite to hikers they would not call the law enforcement? Could a nice word save your wallet?
    I would NOT even be on that trail because it is a "HIKING ONLY trail.

    Go enjoy your hiking only trails dude.
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitanan View Post
    I would NOT even be on that trail because it is a "HIKING ONLY trail.

    Go enjoy your hiking only trails dude.
    So you cannot possibly imagine a scenario where you end up on a hiking trail?

    Like, oh, I don't know; you get lost, you get a call from home that there is an emergency, there is a forest fire and you need to detour, there are freakin' dragons which derailed you of your track ...
    Daemon
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    All our "trails" are multi-use, but some have restrictions on horses and almost all on MX/4WD. They are not unidirectional.

    I have no memory of ever having a problem meeting with another person, regardless of their reason for being there, or whether they were on a "legal" trail. In fact, it has never happened on any trail. Reasonable doubt suggests it's not because I'm "nice" by nature.

    The question I'd like to ask is - If you are out in the bush, or for that matter 20m in the bush from your home, what makes you feel there is any right to a "right of way"?

    By regulating, or if you prefer, clarifying the situation with signage, don't you just create an environment of dispute?

    Common sense dictates what should happen in almost all encounters. Trying to control common sense and the natural environment makes no sense, because it cannot be effectively done.

    In case I am not getting this clear, again, what should be said here is what makes sense, not what sounds politically correct to non-MTBers. I remember walking in the bush. I still do. I've ridden MX and snowmobiles and taken old folks into the bush, pets and babies too. I just don't see sense in regulating our interactions with each other (and nature) for the sake of it, just in case, or worse still, to control the populace.

    And that includes being "nice" out of obligation. How stupid is that?
    Unfortunately the closer to lager uban areas you get it sems the less common sense is available until finally it seems to almost vanish.

    Hove you ever heard the phrase "common sense is not very common"?
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  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitanan View Post
    I would NOT even be on that trail because it is a "HIKING ONLY trail.

    Go enjoy your hiking only trails dude.
    He might not have any option in his country. That may be the way they do things there.

    Minimising friction between different groups of trail users may ultimately help ensure ongoing access for all users to a dwindling and finite resource.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    He might not have any option in his country. That may be the way they do things there.

    Minimising friction between different groups of trail users may ultimately help ensure ongoing access for all users to a dwindling and finite resource.
    ----
    Last edited by 2ridealot; 09-23-2011 at 09:33 AM.
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Hove you ever heard the phrase "common sense is not very common"?
    Common sense - so rare it is considered a super-power.
    Daemon
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