• 03-24-2011
    photodog
    4 Attachment(s)
    NAHBS Best Ti frame in my garage and it's still raining!
    I'm sitting here editing these pictures I shot for Jim Kish of a very unique bike that I really want to try while we are on our 6th straight day of high winds and heavy rains, it's killing me to not be able to try this thing out! Can't imagine it's more than 13 lbs, bunnyhops would be so easy it would be dangerous. It's kind of a BMX meets Ti singlespeed thing, very cool but it looks like I won't get to ride it, bummer. Oh well, makes my messy studio/garage look more classy!

    Here's a few pics
  • 03-24-2011
    dollarbill2
    astonishingly beautiful
  • 03-24-2011
    kmac999
    Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area
  • 03-24-2011
    Ridin'Dirty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kmac999
    Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area


    Are you referring to the angles? HT?
  • 03-24-2011
    photodog
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kmac999
    Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area

    Yeah, you are seeing something the judges who awarded the bike Best Titanium Frame didn't.... LOL

    Only on mtbr!
  • 03-24-2011
    wyatt79m
    looks fun
  • 03-24-2011
    nuffink
    Very pretty. Call me old fashioned though but I'd have thought a front brake wasn't optional on a mountain bike.
  • 03-25-2011
    naya the dingo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kmac999
    Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area


    +1 I thought the exact same thing as soon as I saw the pics. I wonder if it's just an optical illusion?
  • 03-25-2011
    TheNightman
    That's a beauty. I like the mounting location of the rear brake, too. It makes the bike look really clean. I've never seen brakes mounted down there before either (probably for practical reasons, but it still looks cool nonetheless :D )
  • 03-25-2011
    El Salt
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheNightman
    I've never seen brakes mounted down there before either (probably for practical reasons, but it still looks cool nonetheless :D )


    What's old is new! ;)

    It is beautiful, no doubt!

    I've got a Merlin (Cir. 1988) that I converted into a Townie with a "U-Brake" on it!
  • 03-25-2011
    jollybeggar
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by naya the dingo
    +1 I thought the exact same thing as soon as I saw the pics. I wonder if it's just an optical illusion?

    Beautiful welds but I'm seeing the same thing. Got to be the lighting. I hope.
  • 03-25-2011
    photodog
    1 Attachment(s)
    Try this: 99% of all LCD monitors are set way too bright so I wonder if you guys are seeing all the detail that there is to be seen in these images or if it's just going white in the highlights (right on the weld) as your monitors are set too bright? For reference, my graphics monitors are hardware calibrated to commercial printing standards. Even so, brightness on one is set to 0, the other 13%. The 0% one is still too bright so is not suitable for judging brightness. On that one the entire reflection on the head tube welds is white so you can't see any detail. Try turning down your brightness and see if you can't see some detail that's otherwise not visible.

    I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing so I'm putting up the pic from the other side unedited that might help. Ignore the rubs, that's why I had shot the other side (didn't feel like polishing it up). But I'm just not seeing any way to judge that the tube is short based on what I'm seeing.
  • 03-25-2011
    naya the dingo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by photodog
    Try this: 99% of all LCD monitors are set way too bright so I wonder if you guys are seeing all the detail that there is to be seen in these images or if it's just going white in the highlights (right on the weld) as your monitors are set too bright? For reference, my graphics monitors are hardware calibrated to commercial printing standards. Even so, brightness on one is set to 0, the other 13%. The 0% one is still too bright so is not suitable for judging brightness. On that one the entire reflection on the head tube welds is white so you can't see any detail. Try turning down your brightness and see if you can't see some detail that's otherwise not visible.

    I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing so I'm putting up the pic from the other side unedited that might help. Ignore the rubs, that's why I had shot the other side (didn't feel like polishing it up). But I'm just not seeing any way to judge that the tube is short based on what I'm seeing.


    That looks better in that picture. It's not that the headtube is short, "undercut" is a welding term. If you run your finger across the weld can you feel a ridge on either side?
  • 03-25-2011
    photodog
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by naya the dingo
    That looks better in that picture. It's not that the headtube is short, "undercut" is a welding term. If you run your finger across the weld can you feel a ridge on either side?

    As if it was welded just from the end of the tube and not enough over the outside, correct? No, I don't feel any ridges, feels smooth to me (other than the beads of the welds of course).

    I think I see what you mean in the first pic of the HT area though as the shadow from the overhead light falling does make it look odd but on the high res pics you can see it's still flat. It's actually the shadow from the headset overhanging that just happens to fall right in the weld making it look weird. Even on the second pic the angle of the light makes it look odd but on a totally different spot.

    Might just re-shoot those tight head tube shots, glad it got figured out so I know what to watch for on the next shoot. I don't shoot a whole lot of bikes so it's good to learn what to watch out for. Who'd have thought I'd get good commercial photography feedback on MTBR!?
  • 03-25-2011
    naya the dingo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by photodog
    As if it was welded just from the end of the tube and not enough over the outside, correct? No, I don't feel any ridges, feels smooth to me (other than the beads of the welds of course).

    I think I see what you mean in the first pic of the HT area though as the shadow from the overhead light falling does make it look odd but on the high res pics you can see it's still flat. It's actually the shadow from the headset overhanging that just happens to fall right in the weld making it look weird. Even on the second pic the angle of the light makes it look odd but on a totally different spot.

    Might just re-shoot those tight head tube shots, glad it got figured out so I know what to watch for on the next shoot. I don't shoot a whole lot of bikes so it's good to learn what to watch out for. Who'd have thought I'd get good commercial photography feedback on MTBR!?


    http://www.vendettacycles.com/vendettacycles/lugs.htm

    There is a picture of undercut about halfway down the page in the link. Basically, it gets too hot, or not enough filler rod is added, and it pulls material from the tubing into the weld. That creates thin/weak spots in the tubing on one, or both sides of the bead.
  • 03-25-2011
    tim208
    put some rain gear on and go ride. if we didn't ride int he rain, we would never get to ride.
    its a bike, who cares if it gets wet.
  • 03-25-2011
    ProjectDan35
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tim208
    put some rain gear on and go ride. if we didn't ride int he rain, we would never get to ride.
    its a bike, who cares if it gets wet.

    A lot of people care if it gets wet. :thumbsup:
  • 03-25-2011
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by photodog
    Try this: 99% of all LCD monitors are set way too bright so I wonder if you guys are seeing all the detail that there is to be seen in these images or if it's just going white in the highlights (right on the weld) as your monitors are set too bright? For reference, my graphics monitors are hardware calibrated to commercial printing standards. Even so, brightness on one is set to 0, the other 13%. The 0% one is still too bright so is not suitable for judging brightness. On that one the entire reflection on the head tube welds is white so you can't see any detail. Try turning down your brightness and see if you can't see some detail that's otherwise not visible.

    I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing so I'm putting up the pic from the other side unedited that might help. Ignore the rubs, that's why I had shot the other side (didn't feel like polishing it up). But I'm just not seeing any way to judge that the tube is short based on what I'm seeing.


    the weld does look undercut in the pictures. it could be an illusion but it shows up in all the pics. as far as it being an award winner and that meaning its welds are perfect, that's pure bs. welds are tested by x-ray and other methods, not by eye other than undercut which looks present and i doubt the nahbs does non destructive testing of welds at the show



    https://www.prest-o-lite.com/EUWeb/M...592mig10_5.htm
  • 03-25-2011
    robncircus
    Interesting welding lesson ITT. Kish bike are pretty awesome, and come with a hefty price tag. I suspect he doesn't make too many welding errors :)
  • 03-25-2011
    PaintPeelinPbody
    Here's my guess:

    In terms of structural integrity vs aesthetics, I believe the builder would try to have the welds as flat as possible, since grinding wouldn't be an option on bare Ti.

    So you'd take the risk of being minimally undercut vs overfilling the weld and ruining it all.
  • 03-26-2011
    GFAthens
    That bike is gorgeous, too bad for the rain!
  • 03-26-2011
    steadite
    "undercut" is in the base metal, not in the fusion zone. i think what you're seeing is concave profile, which is pretty unavoidable for an autogenous weld.
  • 03-26-2011
    kmac999
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by steadite
    "undercut" is in the base metal, not in the fusion zone. i think what you're seeing is concave profile, which is pretty unavoidable for an autogenous weld.


    I am talking about the base metal. The undercut is in the tubing, right at the outside edge of the fusion zone.
  • 03-26-2011
    lawnpro
    The welds are not undercut..i saw this bike in person, it really is a work of art. Its just the angle/lighting in the photos..
  • 03-26-2011
    benja55
    1 Attachment(s)
    nice bike but those welds....
    i hate to even comment because i love the concept of the bike, but those welds really do look undercut to me.

    ...and i've welded more ti frames then i can remember, and now do lighting for feature films so i can usually spot this stuff...

    plus i'm a Certified Ti Weld Critic so my word is law. ;)
  • 03-28-2011
    tim208
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ProjectDan35
    A lot of people care if it gets wet. :thumbsup:


    what is the big deal of a wet bike. please make me understand why a mountain bike can't ride in the rain? My ti cross bike is going to get soaked tonight.
  • 03-28-2011
    photodog
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tim208
    what is the big deal of a wet bike. please make me understand why a mountain bike can't ride in the rain? My ti cross bike is going to get soaked tonight.

    Pretty simple: because I don't own it.
  • 03-28-2011
    tim208
    photodog

    i was just curious. it seemed like the bike would melt or something.
    and i have never been an art guy, more like bikes are tools to be used.
  • 05-01-2011
    chipwillis
    NIce pictures, I bought the Orange one he made in 2010. Fun bike to ride nice and quick being 24" wheels.
  • 05-02-2011
    north20
    It's beautiful to look at for sure ...

    But with no front brake, and rear brake under the chainstays, I wouldn't ride it in the wet either.