Interesting MTBR review of Texas' best riding facility- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Interesting MTBR review of Texas' best riding facility

    Cameron Park in Waco, Texas was the site of the first Norba National of '04. The Waco National was universally liked by all the the Norba pros. Cameron Park is an incredible facility with terrain that challenges even top downhillers. I've ridden pretty much all over the country and this place has some of the best mountaining biking in the nation.

    I'm trying to figure out the following review. This person obviously has issues beyond his hatred for Texas and Texans.


    Reviewed by: Texas DEFINITELY Sucks, from Colorado

    Summary:
    Five stars? Come on!!! Get a grip and a life. Do not come to Colorado and if you do be ready for some serious disrespect. TEXAS IS THE **** CAN OF THE WORLD.

    Recommended Route:
    You people are totally ignorant. Check the review out before this one. That is one illiterate individual.

  2. #2
    Jm.
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    Ok, I haven't been on that particular trail, but do you feel it is worth of 5 stars such as trails like porcupine rim in moab, mr toads wild ride in lake tahoe, national in phoenix and others...?

    If anything, there are way too many reviews that are "5 out of 5" for what are essentially "bike paths". Even a lot of the 4s are "stretching it" IMO....

    I'm not saying it one way or the other for your particular trail, but I haven't found the trail reviews here to be very telling because they are not on a relative scale (to each other).

  3. #3
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    If you rate a trail by the possibility of getting killed if you make a mistake, then this facility would earn five stars. At Cameron Park there are a number of tree lined runs that are essentially 250' straight down. They are rated double black diamond and that is very accurate. In this months MBA they said;

    "E-ticket ride: Forget about racing, the trails at Cameron Park are like a mountain bike amusement park - only it's free. For a first-year event(NORBA), the feedback was overwhelmingly positive."

    Cameron Park really is a five star MTB venue. Just be sure to bring your legs, lungs and life insurance.

  4. #4
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    You must understand that the "colorado" thing to say/do is hate texans...why....well because we have all learned to do it. For me as a youngster I was always annoyed with the way texans presented themselves on the slopes at our local resorts. If I had a penny for every freaking "Yeeha-Billy Bob" I heard at breckenridge/vail/copper/keystone...especially keystone I would have some serious cash. But the truth of the matter is that the tourism money that comes here from texas can not overlooked. So if you see "state-racism" from colorado to texas this is where issue has come from. Personally I don't think I've ever seen an annoying texas rider on the trail...yet. As for the review, The riding in texas is much more hilly up/down/up/down than say something in colorado big up/big down. Could it be "as good" as the best colorado trail.....hard to beat best colorado trail but I'm sure they are out there.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by preparation_h
    You must understand that the "colorado" thing to say/do is hate texans...why....well because we have all learned to do it. For me as a youngster I was always annoyed with the way texans presented themselves on the slopes at our local resorts. .
    Surely you''ve heard the joke

    Q: Why are Texan tourists better than California tourists?

    A: Texans go home at the end of their vacation.

  6. #6
    JDZ
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    I was on the lift at Breckinridge and was talking to some guys from CT. I told them I was from TX and they had some pretty good jokes for me. The best one:

    What's the last thing you hear before you wipe out? Yeeeee Hawwww.

    As far as Cameron, I haven't been there yet but I hear it is a great trail. I doubt any of the pro's at the NORBA race complained about it being too easy or too flat. In fact, I heard rumors of the opposite. Take some Colorado mountain bikers out there or to Bar H and I think it might shatter their stereotypical view of Texas terrain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by preparation_h
    You must understand that the "colorado" thing to say/do is hate texans...why....well because we have all learned to do it. For me as a youngster I was always annoyed with the way texans presented themselves on the slopes at our local resorts. If I had a penny for every freaking "Yeeha-Billy Bob" I heard at breckenridge/vail/copper/keystone...especially keystone I would have some serious cash. But the truth of the matter is that the tourism money that comes here from texas can not overlooked. So if you see "state-racism" from colorado to texas this is where issue has come from. Personally I don't think I've ever seen an annoying texas rider on the trail...yet.
    This is interesting. The hate is taught and encouraged? The root of all this hate is a few loud and boisterous rednecks having a good time but not really hurting anyone? For every one of the Texans that you found annoying in the lift line, I'm sure there were ten more that you didn't even notice.

    Saying all Texans are obnoxious rednecks is like saying all blacks like watermelon. It's not cool.

  8. #8
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    the date on that review is from 2000. He's just jelous because the Texans can ride all year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie

    Saying all Texans are obnoxious rednecks is like saying all blacks like watermelon. It's not cool.

    I'm a native Californian that moved to Texas 7 years ago. I've ridden virtually every trail in So. CA, Moab, Fruita, SLC, Brianhead etc etc. I have also ridden Waco a few times. If you are used to Alpine style MTB riding then Waco will not really be your cup of tea. Yeah, there is 1,000 ft elevation climb if you do the whole course but it's about 50-60 feet at a time. Net/net it's a lot of fun. Is it a 5 star course? Maybe. It's just so different riding in TX as compared to places that actually have mountains and hills.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie
    Saying all Texans are obnoxious rednecks is like saying all blacks like watermelon. It's not cool.
    Did he say that?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie
    Saying all Texans are obnoxious rednecks is like saying all blacks like watermelon. It's not cool.
    I'd guess thinking that all Texans are obnoxious is about as sound as thinking all Coloradians hate Texans. But why get your panties in such a twist about what one person says? You like riding Waco, great, ride Waco. Who cares what other folks think about the place. (I think it's a hoot, BTW.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    I'd guess thinking that all Texans are obnoxious is about as sound as thinking all Coloradians hate Texans. But why get your panties in such a twist about what one person says? You like riding Waco, great, ride Waco. Who cares what other folks think about the place. (I think it's a hoot, BTW.)
    My panties aren't in a wad. It is just interesting because I've seen this sentiment on this forum a number of times and I've only been a member here for 6 weeks. I certainly don't paint all Coloradians with the same brush. I'm just trying to figure out where the haters are coming from. I'm sure they are a loud minority.

    BTW, I'm a native of the Pacific Northwest.

  13. #13
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie
    If you rate a trail by the possibility of getting killed if you make a mistake, then this facility would earn five stars. At Cameron Park there are a number of tree lined runs that are essentially 250' straight down. They are rated double black diamond and that is very accurate. In this months MBA they said;

    "E-ticket ride: Forget about racing, the trails at Cameron Park are like a mountain bike amusement park - only it's free. For a first-year event(NORBA), the feedback was overwhelmingly positive."

    Cameron Park really is a five star MTB venue. Just be sure to bring your legs, lungs and life insurance.

    I didn't say that, I said does it rate among the epic-ride for hours on end-places like moab and others that happen to also have excellent trails as well? There could be a death-defying 2 mile loop in a park, but as much as I like technical, I probably wouldn't ride there. I like to be able to ride for miles on end in one direction, climbing or descending, add up more of these factors together and IMO you are getting closer to a "5 out of 5" type ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    I like to be able to ride for miles on end in one direction, climbing or descending, add up more of these factors together and IMO you are getting closer to a "5 out of 5" type ride.
    Unfortunately, the best trail for a long epic ride in Texas is closed to cyclists. It's the 4C Trial in East Texas. This trail is a 22 mile point to point trail that winds and climbs through the piney woods of the Davey Crockett National Forest for a 44 mile round trip. It takes the better part of 4-5 hours to do the whole enchilada if you keep your stops to a minimum. Even though the trail is closed to cyclists, there are very few rangers in the area and the population around the area is very small. Some friends and I have ridden it a couple of times over the last 15 years and I've never seen anyone past about the 1 mile mark from the trail heads during the week. I've never seen a forest ranger either but I know of someone that ran into one on the trail. According to him the ranger was very cool and apologetic about the fact that the trail was off limits to cyclists. I wish the Dallas and Houston area MTB'rs could get together with the US Forest Service and get this trail opened up for us to ride. It's a superb trail.

  15. #15
    Jm.
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    What probably happened is that someone judged your trails a little unfairly, a little less than people usually do, and I am not defending that, it may be that the trails are pretty good.

    What I am saying is that all to often, on this site, the opposite happens. There's not much relativity with the current system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    What probably happened is that someone judged your trails a little unfairly, a little less than people usually do, and I am not defending that, it may be that the trails are pretty good.

    What I am saying is that all to often, on this site, the opposite happens. There's not much relativity with the current system.
    I don't think this particualr guy from Colorado ever rode the trail. That's the point. He is slamming the trail and the people just because they are in Texas. Here is another trail review of his on another D/FW area trail. He is obviously wacked out.

    Reviewed by: TEXAS SUCKS, from COLORADO

    Summary:
    What's with you people? Your egos are so blown out of whack you have no idea that everyone else in the nation teases your righteous self-indignation. I know you probably don't know what that means. So let's make it short, sweet and clear - TEXANS Suck!!! Stay out of Colorado!!!

    Recommended Route:
    Once again you over-inflated Texas idiots think you have good trails. Get a real State and then pop off *******s. I can't believe some of the reviews I read here!!!

  17. #17
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    Trail ratings

    Wow, this person definitely has some anger management issues! I think trail ratings are typically in reference to the other trails in a particular area. I never rode while I lived in Texas, but I can tell you that they probably as a whole would not be as challenging in some respects as some of the trails here in North Georgia. Does that make them lesser trails? Of course not! Cameron Park looks and sounds like a great trail system. Just because you don't have the topography to work with doesn't make a trail bad. I couldn't compare what I ride to trails in CO or UT simply because I haven't ridden there. I will say we had one in our group move in from Colorado. While he could kick our butts on the climbs, the close proximity of trees and the roots took him a while to get used to.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie
    ...

    BTW, I'm a native of the Pacific Northwest.
    Huh, you know I never really was exposed to this kind of "proud to be a native of ..." rhetoric 'til moved to Tejas (from Seattle, btw). Sounds to me like you've got a fair touch of that Lone Star Pride in you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Huh, you know I never really was exposed to this kind of "proud to be a native of ..." rhetoric 'til moved to Tejas (from Seattle, btw). Sounds to me like you've got a fair touch of that Lone Star Pride in you.
    Well, I've lived here long enough to call it home although most of my family lives in Washington and Oregon. You know what they say, home is where the heart is. For me, that's Texas. I've just never met anyone in the world that looked down upon me for being from Texas except for a few folks from Colorado. Usually, telling a new aquitance I'm form Texas starts a good conversation.

    Maybe the Coloradians have a lot of native pride as well as I have seen many Colorado Native bumper skickers.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie
    Well, I've lived here long enough to call it home although most of my family lives in Washington and Oregon. You know what they say, home is where the heart is. For me, that's Texas. I've just never met anyone in the world that looked down upon me for being from Texas except for a few folks from Colorado. Usually, telling a new aquitance I'm form Texas starts a good conversation.

    Maybe the Coloradians have a lot of native pride awell as I have seen many Colorado Native bumper skickers.

    Native(Colorado) I am. I've seen the population in colorado grow so fast that is truly unbelievable. Skiing on weekends has become more of a drag than fun because of all the traffic, never use to be like that. I think coloradoans are just starting to get pissed because what they were use to isn't the norm anymore. MTBing on the front range is damn near dangerous at peak hours because of the traffic on the trails. Whining I am, but it is the truth. Yes we have native pride, but the issue of urban sprawl is just plainly pissing us off!

  21. #21
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    I can understand that

    I moved to Colorado from Texas when I was a kid and spent about 8 years there during the 70's. It was a truly great place to grow up. I went back to Loveland about five years ago and it didn't even look like the same place. I would love to go back and try mountain biking there, but I think I would go to the west slope where I would guess the crowds are thinner.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by forkboy
    Surely you''ve heard the joke

    Q: Why are Texan tourists better than California tourists?

    A: Texans go home at the end of their vacation.
    Not in Santa Fe, where they just buy some [email protected]@ house driving real estate costs through the roof! Median house price just hit a new record at $319,000. Ridiculously high in a region where earning $45K is good for a professional! Ha..... It's a tough relationship, as we too get plenty of $$$ from the tourism, and most of the Texans I've met have been pretty nice. I was talking with a woman up at the Ski Basin here and she had a great anecdote regarding a bumper sticker that was popular a while ago, read something like;

    "If god had wanted Texans to ski, he'd have given 'em mountains!"

    She said she then saw a Texas version, jibing NM;

    "If god had wanted New Mexicans to ski, he'd have given 'em money!"

    Funny, especially as it's true!

    About Cameron Park though, my friends who raced there said the riding was surprisingly good, for both the XC and the Marathon XC. As good as Northern NM or Colorado, like, say Monarch Crest Trail? No, but still good. Seems like a great spot, and deserves credit, especially in a state not exactly known for having much public lands. The review should be removed from the review section, as it's just some childish rant, not useful feedback posited in a mature way.
    Last edited by glenzx; 06-17-2004 at 07:38 AM.
    "It's better to regret something you HAVE done, than something you haven't..." -

  23. #23
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    Good job! All trails..

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelie
    I've ridden pretty much all over the country and this place has some of the best mountaining biking in the nation.
    All trails I've ridden have some of the best mountain biking in the nation. They're all grand but..
    ..I guess I've ridden close to 30 venues in Texas as well as places in Illinois, MO, VA, WV, MD, PA and Hawaii. Let me tell you other places may be more scenic but TX trails have flow. Hawaii trails 4 the most part have no flow. I'm better at racing in hillier VA than in surprisingly technical Texas. BLORA IMO was the best esp when all the trail markings were upkept. Dana Peak makes 4 a fun ride too.Then there's Rocky Hill, Bluff Creek and Flat Creek and Johnson Branch near Dallas and all the rest. One things for sure, Texas is a big state and riding options seem endless. An "A'" state above all the rest. And the racing arm, TMBRA, goes way out in putting on class act and entertaining races.

  24. #24
    Ron
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    SS trails

    texas trails are best when riding a single speed

  25. #25
    Ron
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    oh and....

    yee hawww!!!!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron
    yee hawww!!!!
    that's Yee F'in Hawww, Boy Howdy, Let Me Tell You What!

  27. #27
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    I have a simple rating system. If I'm riding the trail, it is 5 star. If I am not riding the trail, it is 0 star. If I rode the trail in the past, it is a memory. Simple and completely objective as long as you are me at the time I am riding.


    Ratings are opinions, nothing more and nothing less. Bias, subjective "facts", competitive dribble, rivalries, marketing, ... These are the things that make for some fun discussions.

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    Random thoughts.

    I get annoyed when I see those Colorado Native bumper stickers. I want to flag them down and ask, "How did you feel about the white men killing off all the buffalo?" "Did you lose any relatives at Sand Creek?"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Cameron Park is a fun ride.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "What's the biggest state park in Texas?"

    "Colorado"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I've ridden a bunch of trails in a bunch of places. Does Cameron Park compare to the accepted version of the glossy-colored-photo-version of "epic"? (As doled out by mountain biking magazines and Mt. Dew ads) Perhaps not. To me this is a good thing. I like diversity. And if one can have fun with a section of trail rolling under one's wheels, why does it matter where and how remote that trail is? Don't get me wrong, I'm down with the big vista epic (https://www.anthonysloan.com/Cycling_Destinations.html) But I don't cotton to the notion that because one ride had the "epic" cachet, other rides are somehow reduced by comparison. S'like this, say you drive a 3 series sedan, maybe a 330. It's a nice car, fun to drive, etc. Then you discover that they also make an M3. Swizzo ride, indeed. But the wise man will realize that the 330 is STILL a fun ride.

    geax ryde





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