Interesting Chris King article...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1

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    We the people ... Interesting Chris King article...

    on overseas manufacturing. Yes, one could make the claim that it's a bit self-serving, but King walks the talk all the same.

    http://www.chrisking.com/asiamfg/index.html

    Before anyone posts glib responses, please actually READ the thing.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclaSSt
    Before anyone posts glib responses, please actually READ the thing.
    I truly admire them - but also look at them currently...to stay competetive they had to move to Oregon and many of the employees did not move with them. They are backordered on many products which allows competitors to eat into their marketshare. Employees bought houses in Shasta Lake and it wouldn't work out for them to move (i've talked to a few of them who are really bummed.) What about those employees? Just like asian manufacturing employees - many C/K employees are now out of a job - have a mortgage to worry about - and I don't think there are many bike industry jobs in Shasta.

    So I guess you gotta look at it from both perspectives. There is usually always a downside. We actually have sent partial stand production to Canada to stay competetive because all of our competitors stands are now made in China and Taiwan - so I can truly relate.

    I love CK stuff and it will be REALLY cool when they get their anodizing in-house. The anodization process is very nasty and I can only imagine what happens in Asia...
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  3. #3
    Yummy
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    Read the article, but still can't resist a glib response:

    How exactly does one "walk the talk"? Walking and talking use completely different organs!

    Kn.
    I used to be with it. Then, they changed what "it" is, and now what I'm with is no longer "it". And whatever "it" is, is strange and confusing.

  4. #4

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    Self serving?...

    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclaSSt
    on overseas manufacturing. Yes, one could make the claim that it's a bit self-serving, but King walks the talk all the same.

    http://www.chrisking.com/asiamfg/index.html

    Before anyone posts glib responses, please actually READ the thing.
    when isn't a business self serving? Good article.

    BTW it's not "walks the talk" it's "talks the talk" or "walks the walk". Please excuse me if I get a bit [email protected] about that, but it has to make sense in some way.

  5. #5

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    Just wanted to shorten the phrase...

    Quote Originally Posted by fred³
    when isn't a business self serving? Good article.

    BTW it's not "walks the talk" it's "talks the talk" or "walks the walk". Please excuse me if I get a bit [email protected] about that, but it has to make sense in some way.
    in a way that still makes sense, at least as much as the original. It was deliberate, so I'll explain:

    Walk the talk means practicing what you preach--you say you're going to do something, and then you actually do it.

    Hope that clears it all up.

    More good stuff on the King site:

    http://www.chrisking.com/pucks/index.html

  6. #6

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    See my response to fred cubed...

    Quote Originally Posted by K'Endo
    Read the article, but still can't resist a glib response:

    How exactly does one "walk the talk"? Walking and talking use completely different organs!

    Kn.
    ya bugger!
    Last edited by iconoclaSSt; 01-28-2004 at 09:54 AM.

  7. #7

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    Didn't know about that...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    I truly admire them - but also look at them currently...to stay competetive they had to move to Oregon and many of the employees did not move with them. They are backordered on many products which allows competitors to eat into their marketshare. Employees bought houses in Shasta Lake and it wouldn't work out for them to move (i've talked to a few of them who are really bummed.) What about those employees? Just like asian manufacturing employees - many C/K employees are now out of a job - have a mortgage to worry about - and I don't think there are many bike industry jobs in Shasta.

    So I guess you gotta look at it from both perspectives. There is usually always a downside. We actually have sent partial stand production to Canada to stay competetive because all of our competitors stands are now made in China and Taiwan - so I can truly relate.

    I love CK stuff and it will be REALLY cool when they get their anodizing in-house. The anodization process is very nasty and I can only imagine what happens in Asia...
    bad scene, no doubt. I can only imagine...

    But at least some of the employees are--presumably--still employed and new ones undoubtedly were hired. If they simply moved production overseas, which they could do, they would have a lot less employees here and could make a super-killing. They choose not to do this (at least for now), for a number of arguably valid reasons.

    From what I can see, nowadays in many cases the reduced costs from moving production overseas are rarely transferred to the consumer in the form of reduced prices. More often than not, the reduced costs simply become increased profits for the company. Someone here pointed out that some Santa Cruz models are now made overseas...haven't heard of a corresponding price drop for those models or even calibrated pricing.

    As for in-house anodizing, it appears that theirs is in-house:

    Anodizing aluminum generates mostly water vapor in the air stream. Since nearly everything on the anodizing line is acidic, we use a counter flow water scrubbing system. The water in our scrubber is kept at a just barely basic pH (to neutralize the acid in the air stream) just the slightest bit more basic than tap water. We can make this work because of the size and type of scrubber that we have. The system is super simple. Dirty air gets sucked into the bottom of a 15 foot tall vertical tube to be exhausted from the top. The tube is packed full of little plastic things that look like Christmas tree ornaments. The water is pumped in as a heavy spray at the top of the tube so that it rains down through all of the plastic Christmas tree ornaments. Dirty air is going up, clean water is going down. The acid in the air stream contacts the water and is neutralized to form a salt.

  8. #8
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    Nice article

    "We got to raise the rates so we can Face the Face"
    ~ Pete Townsend, White City 1985

  9. #9

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    I finally grew up...

    Quote Originally Posted by imjps
    "We got to raise the rates so we can Face the Face"
    ~ Pete Townsend, White City 1985
    to resist the temptation/the gutters all threw up...

    Good album...

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclaSSt
    on overseas manufacturing. Yes, one could make the claim that it's a bit self-serving, but King walks the talk all the same.

    http://www.chrisking.com/asiamfg/index.html

    Before anyone posts glib responses, please actually READ the thing.
    Good article. I figure the less stuff we buy from China, for example, the better. Every dollar we spend over there helps build up their military which we are sure to face in the near future. China has the fastest growing economy in the world, thanks in large part to us here in the US (can you say WAL MART?), and their growing need for natural resources, like oil, will no doubt end up in military confrontations with us in the near future. Read up on what caused WW I and you will see what I mean. I'm all for low prices for the consumer, but people need to look at where their money is going.

  11. #11
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajoc_prez
    Good article. I figure the less stuff we buy from China, for example, the better. Every dollar we spend over there helps build up their military which we are sure to face in the near future.
    Which is comical considering what the US spends building up its military, by BORROWING money from foreign banks, including i'm sure, some in china.

    Have you looked at your country's public debt lately?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Which is comical considering what the US spends building up its military, by BORROWING money from foreign banks, including i'm sure, some in china.

    Have you looked at your country's public debt lately?
    I totally agree with you. I just don't think we need another super power in the world, and China is well on their way. Look at the statistics for WWI and WWII and you'll see how many millions were killed. Much of that was because you had so many countries with large militarys capable of doing a lot of damage. Thankfully that is not the case today, and we (the US) are about the only ones with such a military. I personally think that is a good thing even when you look at what our military is doing in Iraq right now. It in no way compares to the death and destruction of past wars.

  13. #13
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    Nope, they never got the ano. line up and running in Shasta Lake. It's a very difficult and expensive process - I am sure manufacturing in California didn't help the cause at all.
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  14. #14

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    Lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by ajoc_prez
    I totally agree with you. I just don't think we need another super power in the world, and China is well on their way. Look at the statistics for WWI and WWII and you'll see how many millions were killed. Much of that was because you had so many countries with large militarys capable of doing a lot of damage. Thankfully that is not the case today, and we (the US) are about the only ones with such a military. I personally think that is a good thing even when you look at what our military is doing in Iraq right now. It in no way compares to the death and destruction of past wars.
    "It in no way compares to the death and destruction of past wars."

    I guess if you died in the Iraq invasion or you died in WWI, it's pretty much all the same from the corpse's perspective.

    Or maybe if you asked the parents of a serviceman killed in Iraq or an Iraqi person who lost their family and home, you'd get an opposing viewpoint.

    And if you mean in terms of number of casualties, well, yeah, not exactly an apples and oranges comparion, is it?
    Last edited by iconoclaSSt; 01-28-2004 at 10:51 AM.

  15. #15

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    New question here. I guess it's running in Oregon, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Nope, they never got the ano. line up and running in Shasta Lake. It's a very difficult and expensive process - I am sure manufacturing in California didn't help the cause at all.
    The article certainly implies it either is or at some point was happening in-house.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by iconoclaSSt
    "It in no way compares to the death and destruction of past wars."

    I guess if you died in the Iraq invasion or you died in WWI, it's pretty much all the same from the corpse's perspective.

    Or maybe if you asked the parents of a serviceman killed in Iraq or an Iraqi person who lost their family and home, you'd get an opposing viewpoint.

    And if you mean in terms of number of casualties, well, yeah, not exactly an apples and oranges comparions, is it?
    Yea, sorry for the confusion, I meant total number of casualties. Stats from WWII are astonishing and we don't need another war like that IMHO...

    Country Battle deaths Wounded
    Australia 26,976 180,864
    Austria 280,000 350,117
    Belgium 8,460 55,5131
    Brazil2 943 4,222
    Bulgaria 6,671 21,878
    Canada 42,0427 53,145
    China3 1,324,516 1,762,006
    Czechoslovakia 6,6834 8,017
    Denmark 4,339 —
    Finland 79,047 50,000
    France 201,568 400,000
    Germany 3,250,0004 7,250,000
    Greece 17,024 47,290
    Hungary 147,435 89,313
    India 2,121 64,354
    Italy 149,4964 66,716
    Japan 1,270,000 140,000
    Netherlands 6,500 2,860
    New Zealand 11,6254 17,000
    Norway 2,000 —
    Poland 664,000 530,000
    Romania 350,0006 —
    South Africa 2,473 —
    U.S.S.R. 6,115,0004 14,012,000
    United Kingdom 357,1164 369,267
    United States 291,557 670,846
    Yugoslavia 305,000 425,000

  17. #17
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    Macro economics will tell you.....

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Which is comical considering what the US spends building up its military, by BORROWING money from foreign banks, including i'm sure, some in china.

    Have you looked at your country's public debt lately?
    Macroeconomics will tell you that the US debt is really not that big of a deal. What is important is the debt to GDP ratio for a given country. This happens to be a very small number for the USA...almost non-existent. Debt in a grown economy is not a big problem.... now on the other hand debt in a recession can be a bad thing...but this is clearly not the case right now. Let's remember that Bill Gates, one man, is worth, at minimum, one tenth our national debt!! With an economic recovery well on the way this debt will disappear in a couple of years. We need to remember that short-lived debt also has a positive function. The weakened US dollar abroad will increase the demand for US imports elsewhere...this will then help balance the US trade deficit which has historically been lop-sided toward US imports. Simplistically, this will create more revenue for US companies, which will continue to feed the currently recovering US economy, which in turn will reduce the national debt.

    The US debt has been politicized by the left and in the long-run it is meaningless. Unfortunately, I don’t think our population understands these simple economic relationships and we will likely elect a tax (tax the rich, tax businesses) and spend Democratic president. In the history of modern economies, never once has a country been taxed to prosperity.

    EndUser
    My advice and $3 will buy you nothing more than a tunafish sandwich

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    Not much fear of that happening...

    "...we will likely elect a tax (tax the rich, tax businesses) and spend Democratic president"

    The parenthetical part, I mean.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    usually always

  20. #20

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    Fuel to the Fire - somewhat sarcastic

    Interesting artical. Using CK numbers $2-5hr x 70-80hr/wk and cost of living is $2 per day. If I'm a slacker and earn $2hr and only work 70hr, I would earn $20 per day with a net profit of $18, 90% of income. Yep, I'd retire at 27 too. Numbers can show many things.

    Yes I do pay more for american made products with all things being equal. Where on CK's list of purchacing decision did it list "product actually works" and yes his do. But there are plenty of US products that are not built to the same tolerances. Also what CK part can I buy at $60 that a Aisan part is $40, the discrepancy is a little greater than that. Yes we need to support our own country, workforce and environment, but this is no excuse for not being price competitive. We must face the fact that we are becoming a global economy and employee rights are getting better in developing countries. Some countries are just a little slower than others.

    And before I get off a high-horse, profit is a good thing. Profit is how we all get paid, how ever, if we are not competive no one will buy our goods.

    Sorry for the rambling and please know I'm in a very sarcastic mood today.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoVA-b
    And before I get off a high-horse, profit is a good thing. Profit is how we all get paid, how ever, if we are not competive no one will buy our goods.
    True, but how many of these companies that are sending jobs overseas have executives making millions of dollars? I'm a firm believer that many of these outsourcing decisions are made by upper management types who need to satisfy Wall Street and by doing so they line their pockets even more. Just once it would be nice to see company executives take a pay cut in order to save some american jobs.

    Look at what these guys get paid...
    http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_16/b3677015.htm

    Take Gerstner of IBM... he gets paid almost $10 million a year, and has about $93 million in long term compensation. Yet IBM just announced they were sending a crapload of jobs overseas. Bottom line is that the rich guys are the ones making the decisions to send the jobs overseas. Nothing buy gready *******s if you ask me. They get richer, while the hard working Americans they layed off are out looking for work.

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    Well, you've redeemed yourself nicely...

    Quote Originally Posted by ajoc_prez
    True, but how many of these companies that are sending jobs overseas have executives making millions of dollars? I'm a firm believer that many of these outsourcing decisions are made by upper management types who need to satisfy Wall Street and by doing so they line their pockets even more. Just once it would be nice to see company executives take a pay cut in order to save some american jobs.

    Look at what these guys get paid...
    http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_16/b3677015.htm

    Take Gerstner of IBM... he gets paid almost $10 million a year, and has about $93 million in long term compensation. Yet IBM just announced they were sending a crapload of jobs overseas. Bottom line is that the rich guys are the ones making the decisions to send the jobs overseas. Nothing buy gready *******s if you ask me. They get richer, while the hard working Americans they layed off are out looking for work.
    Couldn't have put it better myself.

  23. #23
    Jed Peters
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Which is comical considering what the US spends building up its military, by BORROWING money from foreign banks, including i'm sure, some in china.

    Have you looked at your country's public debt lately?
    Holy christ, upie, you're an idiot.

  24. #24

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    Yes, and I too like to see coorperations that have a flater pay scales from executives to workers, and more jobs for Americans. Lord knows I could use a new job. But companies need to adapt as much as we do to survive. IBM is one of the few companies that survived the tech debockle and still employees many americans, as well as, supports many countries. That doesn't mean much to those who just lost their jobs but that was a risk we all took in the tech market. Please don't ask how many tech merger/layoff/outsource/whatever I was envolved in. Then again no one will confuse CK or any other bike executive of pulling anything close to $10m a year, which is what we are talking about in overhead.

    Oh my, world politics and biking who would have thought...I need to exit before I lose my passion.

  25. #25

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    Adapt, yes...

    "But companies need to adapt as much as we do to survive."

    No one's arguing that some companies may have to adapt to be competitive--it's how they choose to adapt that's in question. Were do you make the cuts? A little at the top or a lot at the bottom? Most companies choose the latter.

    And some companies "adapt" when it appears to be unnecessary vis-a-vis survival--cutting work forces just after reaping the highest profits in the company's history. GE, for example, did this under Jack Welch (who, admittedly, has been credited with completely reviving an otherwise moribund company with his management tactics).

  26. #26
    Tear it all out! SuperModerator
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    Did you see the 60 minutes (I think it was) report on GE and other US companies doing business in "Axis..." countries against US law?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in595214.shtml

  27. #27
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    [QUOTE=iconoclaSSt]on overseas manufacturing. Yes, one could make the claim that it's a bit self-serving, but King walks the talk all the same.

    The CK website is full of articles that are as you say, "a bit self serving". Based on what I have read there, I will continue to use CK products if for no other reason than to support a manufacturer with scrupulous morals and a desire to make a difference.

    I wouldn't mind working for them either. I was asked to submit a résumé but my current situation CHOICE won't allow me to move to the Redding area. Besides, it's freaking HOT there in the summer.

    Tim

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